Hm? Don't mind me. I'm just pissed about 9/11 and want

>>88176601
What is this, 2002?

>>88176601
>how dare he ruin the previous characterization of a terorrist who formed a group of fellow terrorists with teenage soldiers called The Brotherhood of EVIL Mutants

Literally every single major Mutant leader has only made the plight of their people unimaginably worse.

>>88176601
Why would he care about 9/11 when he isn't american?

>>88176601
Maybe Magneto just decided "Fuck it, if they're going to treat me like a villain I'm going to be a villain."

>>88176879

Funny how that reflects real life though.

>>88176601
I though the entire point of Magneto was the classic "never meet your heroes" thing

>>88176601
The entire New X-Men run but every time they say "mutant" it's replaced by "nigger"

>>88176601
and then Marvel went on a retcon rampage clusterfuck trying to do damage control and only ended up doing the damage part

Lol lets all whine about the second greatest X writer in history behind Claremont who essentially single-handedly saved the X-Men by giving the franchise a decade's worth of story seeds despite editors doing everything in their power to stop him.

We should be so lucky if Morrison came to Marvel to save the X-Men AGAIN but Marvel doesn't even deserve it.

>>88176601
It would be bad if he had only ruined Magneto, but he went the extra ten miles and fucked up X-Men comics for years. You'd think Marvel would have learned their lesson after that, but no, let's get another Uncle Fester looking motherfucker onboard.

>>88177716
>fucked up X-Men comics for years

Lol I'm assuming you're not old enough to know what the years before Morrison were like

>>88177660

This.

>>88177660
>second greatest X writer in history behind Claremont
Rick Remender?

>>88177795
Started reading since Claremont's 80s run. A bit of interesting stuff had happened JUST before they got him to fuck everything up, trying to reinvent the wheel while tripping on acid.

>>88176601
It's not like he invented Magneto as a genocidal thug, from the beginning he wanted to wipe out homo inferior, even Claremont had him sink a submarine full of humans. And besides Marvel undid it all anyway. The typical justification for Magneto is "Okay he hates humans but only because he's a victim", that mentality lets victims become victimizers and the feud never stops. If he were real and did the sort of stuff he regularly does in the comics we'd all recognize he was a dangerous madman.

>>88177921
>even Claremont had him sink a submarine full of humans
Wasn't it as retaliation after they shot torpeoes at him?

>>88177893
> A bit of interesting stuff had happened JUST before they got him to fuck everything up, trying to reinvent the wheel while tripping on acid.

Yeah I'm fucking sure death of Colossus and The Twelve and the Neo were a complete fucking loss.

>>88178239
They got rid of the Neo just before, post-Apocalyptic Scott had potential to be explored under competent writers, the death of Colossus WAS a big loss, and also all the potential Genosha had for future stories. Destiny's diaries had been found and I'm sure Claremont could explore this better with more choices for his roster.

No but really, comics wouldn't be as interesting without ghetto mutants #345 and #456, Dam- I mean Quentin fucking Quire, not-a-trippy-Gary-Stu Fantomex, totally interesting retconned evil twin villain, the wonderful huge sentinel that vanishes without a trace, or the BRILLIANT concept of secondary mutations. Guess I just can't recognize real GENIUS when I see it, when they're just ruining a good series just to get under the readers' skins.

Grant Morrison didn't romanticize magneto.

His portrayal was jarring because of the sheer volume of writers that romanticize the actions of a race terrorist because muh holocaust

>>88178677
>post-Apocalyptic Scott had potential to be explored under competent writers

That's some wishful thinking.

>>88176601
Reminder that Benis hates Morrison and ruined the last change that he left for the franchise

>>88176601
Reminder that the Genosha issue was released the day before 9/11

In the very first issue of X-Men, Magneto tried to fire nuclear missiles in revenge at humans. As far as I know that was never retconned. So he's been a genocidal nut since day one. No matter how sympathetic people try to make him.

Even the Holocaust backstory doesn't make sense, "I hate humans because they tried to wipe me out for being Jewish!" Even though the vast majority of the Jews they tried to wipe out were human non-mutants? Do you hate them, too?

I thought Morrison's Magneto was blasphemy until I actually read older X-Men comics and realized what a cunt he was.

It was still really silly to make such a show of bringing him back just to break him down as ''irrelevant''. If he's so obsolete, why not just move on? But that's a problem with NXM in general.

The fuck are any of you talking about? New X-Men never halted the progression of the X-Men franchise. It added way more than it took away. Blame the writers who came after Morrison for reverting or ignoring every change he made during his run

>>88180190

Yeah and the Holocaust thing is aging too. That's what I like about the X-Movies is magneto being old as fuck in the present day.

>>88178789
No, it was jarring because the conclusion to the story was, "You thought it was Xorn, but it was I, MAGNETO! MASTER OF MAGNETISM! Watch as I snort immortal sentient bacteria and try to kill all humans!"

>>88180351
Magneto and Xavier have both been dd-aged at least once.

>>88180190
>>88180296
You realize that Magneto's change in characterization was a slow process that started twenty years before Morrison's run and throughout that time he never stopped being a villain?

>>88180382
To be fair, it was only later writers retconed Kick into being Sublime

>>88180546
No, Kick was always Sublime. That was the point

>>88180610
Which creates a massive plot hole. Sublime's motivation was to get rid of mutants and stop evolution because he can't infect mutants but Kick allowed him to infect mutants.

>>88180610
Oh I'm dumb, never mind.

I don't like the New X-Men run very much. I just didn't find it that well made.
I did really like the Assault on Weapon Plus arc, but that's about it.
The Magneto bullshit was disappointing, but it's over and Magneto from Utopia era on has been great. Maybe the only thing in the X-Family that's been consistently that way across the better part of the past decade.

Having said that, Morrison did much more good than harm. Until maybe very very recently, there was STILL fodder that came from his run being used. The influence is still there and that's really neat.

>>88177882
Unsurprising, given how he wrote, a raging Morrisonfag.

>>88181142
Morrison had two big problems with is X-Men run. His major villains sucked and he wrote X-Men as if it were a self-contained universe, even for X-Men writer standards. Even some of his good ideas, like the mutant subculture stuff, barely make any sense within the context of X-Men history.

how did grant change the xmen? Im a big dcfag

>>88181328
He didn't. He did some setting changes but the actual core of the X-Men remained intact.

>>88181328
Despite what the Morrisonbabbies will claim, and what the haters will claim: he didn't.

What he did do was write some things that stirred up controversy and got people talking in big ways.

>>88180500
Marvel has been pushing the whole 'Professor X is Martin Luther King and Magneto is Malcolm X' thing, but the problem is leftists today are so extreme that they view MLK as an Uncle Tom and Malcolm X as a hero, so they naturally regard Magneto as the real hero.

>>88180351
Yeah, it is gonna stop working soon because survivors are too old to be supervillains. Just like Punisher's 'Nam backstory stopped working. But they'll probably use a workaround like 'Magneto's powers slow down his aging because reasons'.

was the all black suits because of Morrison or did Marvel make him change it because of the movies?

>>88181561
Hasn't he been de aged like 3 times or something?

>>88181573
Morrison knew he'd piss off fanboys, so he wanted to make the X-Men cool for 'casuals'

>>88181596
De-aged and cloned, IIRC.

>>88181561
The Bosnian ethnic cleansings were a little over twenty year ago. There were also mass executions during the Kosovo War. Magneto is the one character where race swapping him would make it a lot easier to justify his background.

>>88176601
Reminder that the guy has almost ruined everything he put his hands on and forced people to totally ignore most of his stuff to salvage things.

>>88181859

Yeah theres a ton of old normalass white guy characters in comics that if going by any kind of realistic timeline would probably be dead by now, lol... Castle, Fury (if he ever comes back), Batman, Green Arrow, Hawkeye,... all the dudes who have zero powers or weird chemical interactions that could explain away their age.

I'd be totally fine with them fucking around about with the timeline on those ones just to make it at least seem somewhat realistic

>>88176601
>ruin
Anything that isn't making Magneto a hypocritical nazi is ruining him. Claremont was a mistake.

>>88182890
Castle and Fury are the only two that were tied to specific historical events and Castle got sliding timescaled while Fury has the Infinity Formula.

>>88182890
>Fury (if he ever comes back)
>all the dudes who have zero powers or weird chemical interactions that could explain away their age
I think they did with him, some kind of immortality serum or something?

>Castle
Heard he got de-aged by the Bloodstone when he got ressurected.

>Batman
Zorro occasionally gets new movies

There was also some crazy cosmic explanation for Marvel time in Ultimates recently, basically important recent events "attract" crucial events in the past, shortening time in between.

>>88183216
>some kind of immortality serum or something?
Infinity Formula.

He gave (what he claimed was) the last dosage to Bucky during/after Fear Itself, but he claimed he had been skipping administrations of it for years with no ill-effects.

>>88176879
Yes, Magneto was a mustache-twirling super-villain. In the SILVER AGE.
Morrison decided to ignore all of the depth other writers had given him since then. Yes, he's still a bastard, but he has principles, he never do what Morrison had him do.

>>88176879
It's just the effects of modern day liberalism, anon. Now Trayvyon Martin is a misunderstood kid driven by society; Jihadi John was a martyr who died for fighting Islamophobia.

>>88181859
Instead of doing that and constantly having to switch real atrocities every few decades, why not have him have been incarcerated in a secret experimentation/death camp for mutants?

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>>88177882
he didn't even get his chance, anon

>>88183573
There is a certain intangibility that comes with fantastical backgrounds. It'd be easier to just make him from one of the fictional African countries surrounding Wakanda that are always having some sort of conflict. Hell, make him Wakandan and a member of the White Gorilla Cult, since Marvel kinda glosses over the fact that Black Panther violently suppresses a religious minority.

>>88181515
>leftists today are so extreme that they view MLK as an Uncle Tom and Malcolm X as a hero
I have literally never seen this, where have you seen this?

>>88176601
>oh no how dare he make a villain a bad guy

Why are Marvelfags so retarded?

>>88181515
>leftists today are so extreme

This is laughable because there is literally not a left wing party in America- just two hard right wing ones.

>>88183513
>liberalism
>right of center laissez faire capitalism that uses identity politics that divides people along lines of alienated labor
>liberals voted for war
>liberals had clinton "win" the primary, who was a wall street shill

yes, christians in the military are just picking out the things the bible says and omitting the teachings of their christ with "good intentions"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dimU4Rv7f_Q

>>88176601
i also am pissed about an inside job. jet fuel can't melt steel beams

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmuzyWC60eE

>>88177882
i agree with that

Mike Carey did a good job with "Endangered Species" when he wrote beast and dark beast decently

>>88184426
this anon fucking gets it

>>88181515
i'm a leftist and my leftist friends don't read comics.

by the way, if that's a real stereotype i guess i fit in to it because i do prefer malcolm x and i slightly prefer magneto.

keep in mind that malcolm x's dad was murdered and magneto's family was murdered by right wing fascists/fundamentalists. hope you picked up on the context! keep talking like others are extremists when their lives have been affected negatively by traditional values or colonial violence.

>it's extreme to change your worldview in accordance with the evidence resulting in dialectic materialism

let me guess, you hate scientist characters like beast as well?

>>88184370
Oh yeah, all villains should completely edgy and irredeemable, right?
That was precisely the mindset at the time. That's why early 00s comics sucked so badly.
And somehow they had a bunch of them crying on that stupid 9/11 issue.

>>88184507
Mike Carey's X-run was a shining light of good in a sea of bad, and I kind of wish he'd had a shot to write them in a less terrible time than post-House of M 5 years of damage control.
Even when they were making good decisions with the X-Men at that point they were still wildly careering from idea to idea like a ball bearing in derailed traincar.

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It was mostly the Kick drug's fault that turned him so insane. Once he started that shit he really crossed the line.

>>88184679
This is the mindset that killed Marvel. All of the villains are actually right and all the heroes are wrong.

>>88184931
>everyone should be one-sided with zero character development

>>88177893
This also describes what he did to Batman

>>88184679
>Oh yeah, all villains should completely edgy and irredeemable, right?

Grant wrote an out for Magneto: he was mind controlled.

>>88184931
>Villains are the good guys and heroes fight one another
Yes, character development.

>>88183407
>Morrison decided to ignore all of the depth other writers had given him since then

What depth?

>Waaaaaaaaaaah I was a holocaust survivor you should pity me as I attempt to visit far worse deeds onto the world

gets old after the first billion times

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>>88185234
Try reading comics once in a while. The days when Magneto was mentering The New Mutants showed a really unique human side of him. Makes him more interesting then the generic mass murderer that Morrison wanted him to be.

>>88180012
Back when comics came out on Sundays...

>>88185300

And after his brief stint as the mentor for New Mutants Magneto was back sending worldwide EMP waves that resulted in countless lives being lost in the 90s, and just before Grant's run he did something similar in his big comeback story when he blackmailed the UN to give him Genosha. And in Eve of Destruction was about to launch a global race war.

>>88185230
*poor character development

>>88185339
That's what makes him a complex character, he's constantly struggling with what's right or wrong, all he wants is to make the world a better place for mutants.

>>88185369
>all he wants is to make the world a better place for mutants.

By murdering countless people in the process. All Morrison did was portray the hypocrisy of the character in accurate light, and still kept the character usable in the future, only for Marvel to be too stupid to use it.

Clairmont had to retconned Magneto being Xorn just to set the character back the he's supposed to be. Morrison needs to stay away from the X-Men.

>>88185369
>That's what makes him a complex character,
>Smart enough to realize the Morrison characterization was a bad one
>Still too dumb to realize the 90's characterization was a bad one

2/10 apply yourself

>>88185195
I think that was after editorial got on his ass for it.

>>88185486
Wasn't Claremont, dude.

>>88184931
>All of the villains are actually right and all the heroes are wrong.
It's sad because that's almost the current state... ALMOST. Turns out they still write the villains as being wronger, I guess. Usually.

But there's an obvious difference between classic supervillains trying to take over the world or robbing banks or going full psycho, genocidal, child-slaughtering machines.

>>88185339
>he did something similar in his big comeback story when he blackmailed the UN to give him Genosha
True, he wasn't that well written and already edgelordy at that. The blackmail to get Genosha made full sense, it was when he decided to kidnap Charles and slaughter any opposition that it went completely downhill.

Not 100% sure he was really about to launch a global race war though, been a while since I read that story.

>>88185730
>I think that was after editorial got on his ass for it.

Perhaps you should go back and read the run.

>>88184931
>All of the villains are actually right
Care to give some examples?
Just because occasionally heroes fight each other (they still fight villains much more), doesn't mean that automatically makes the villains right.

>>88185730
>Wasn't Claremont, dude.
It was both Claremont and Chuck Austen actually.
Claremont was the one that said that it was actually Xorn was pretending to be Magneto. Austen was the one that said it was actually Xorn's brother pretending to be Magneto pretending to be Xorn.

I still prfer this culsterfuck of a retcon to keeping what Morrison did intact.

>>88185967
>Magneto
>Doctor Doom
>Galactus
>Venom

That's really all the villains Marvel has, and they're all varying degrees of heroes.

How come Marvel lets every writer keep around stupid shit for years, like Benis and the teen X-men and Mockingbird, but they hastily rush to retcon Morrison's work?

It points to Marvel favoring editorial control over actual writing quality, especially since Morrison is the single good writer they've had since the 80s

>>88186056
>That's really all the villains Marvel has
So the Red Skull, Crossbones, Sin, Kang the Conqueror, Ultron, MODOK, Malekith, Mr. Sinister, Mephisto, Baron Mordo, Dormammu, Nightmare, Mystique, Sebastian Shaw, the Leader, Taskmaster, Kingpin, Bullseye, Osborn, Jackal, Kraven, Vulture, Rhino, Mr. Negative, Madame Masque, Madame Hydra, Titania, Absorbing Man, Annihilus and Thanos are all good guys?

>>88185786
Now that's some great advice! And then what, bendis' run?

>>88185999
>I still prfer this culsterfuck of a retcon to keeping what Morrison did intact.
Too true.

>>88186092
Baiting aside, the reason is that Bendis is seen as very loyal to the company. Morrison by contrast had a bad split with Marvel even though both sides denied they had any problems in interviews.

>>88186092
You underestimate how often other writers have to do damage control for Bendis.

>>88186113
>Bullseye
Did they finally bring him back already?

>Mystique
Actually curious, what's she doing these days?

>Dormammu
Is he up for bargaining?

>>88186141
>Did they finally bring him back already?
He's been back for almost 2 years, it's just that nobody read Elektra's last solo book, which is where it happened.

>Actually curious, what's she doing these days?
She showed up in Uncanny X-Men, Magneto hired her to do shady shit, then she tried to kill Psylocke.

>>88186113
None of those are decent villains.

>>88186241
That's your opinion.

>>88186249
>facts are opinions

>>88186264
So Venom being a decent villain is a fact to you.

>>88180610
Wait, what? Do they explain that in the future Beast arc? Cause I never read that one.

>>88186169
>She showed up in Uncanny X-Men, Magneto hired her to do shady shit, then she tried to kill Psylocke.
Ah, so back to the definitely villain side, thanks.

>He's been back for almost 2 years, it's just that nobody read Elektra's last solo book, which is where it happened.
I... MAY have downloaded it, not sure, but didn't read it. My bad.
Good to know, kinda surprised if they haven't used him much lately.

>>88186302

Yes, Beast is literally controlled by Sublime in the future arc and Sublime's origin and motivation is fully explained

>>88186342
Oh, I feel like I avoided a really shitty plot by never reading it, then. Sadly, I now know about it.

>>88186297
He's Spider-man's only decent villain.

>>88177454
It'd give a whole different meaning to that one panel with Kitty.

>>88186341
>Good to know, kinda surprised if they haven't used him much lately.
He's getting his own solo book now, and so is the Kingpin.

>>88186376
That... that sounds like ANOTHER two in Marvel's lineup of soon-to-be canned books. They better have an ending planned for soon.

>>88186374
Kitty... exposes a mutant classmate, fake young Jean style?

>>88186409
They're stealth minis. Marvel knows that minis don't sell much these days unless they're event tie-ins, so they'll instead pretend it's an ongoing. If it doesn't do great, they cancel it after 1 or 2 arcs, which is all the writer had planned anyway. If it does better than expected, the writer comes up with something else.

>>88186427
>Marvel knows that minis don't sell much these days unless they're event tie-ins
Huh, I had the impression it worked the other way around, but if that's how it works, kinda makes sense.

What is his stand regarding Brexit?

>>88186673
Don't know about Brexit, but he wanted a free Scotland and hates the English.

>>88186685
So anti-Brexit then.

>>88183513
Trayvyon wasn't a saint like the media painted him to be but Zimmerman was in the wrong for stalking and forcing a fight. How would you feel if you were stalked by a fat asshole who thinks he's a cop?

>>88177045
Maybe the Brits had some sort of terrorist attack going on for decades or something.

>>88177882
I wonder if he could've saved the X-Men line if he did Extraordinary X-Men like planned.

>>88185300
You mean the stint where Charles literally brainwashed him not to be a huge terrorist cunt, and he immediately went back to being one when it wore off?

>>88187875
>Charles literally brainwashed him not to be a huge terrorist cunt
>and work as their janitor for minimum wage
>minimum wage...
>minimum wage...

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>>88188055

>>88188130
I don't know why I wondered if someone would remember that lol

>>88176601
Morrison might be a dumb asshole
but his fans are pure cancer and should be removed

>>88185195
>>88184890
This is what most chaps my ass about the whole Xorneto retcon - he included a perfect out for them. Kick was Sublime influencing Magneto to become more extreme. Between that and the Genoshan holocaust, I can easily see Magneto going over the edge. And instead they went for "lolnope, there's a REAL Xorn and Xorneto was REALLY his evil twin brother!" and Erik getting sad anime doe-eyes and all "H-How could you think I'd do that, Charles-kun?"

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>>88189642
You sound mad

Hm? Don't mind OP. He's just pissed about muh ruined Magneto.

>>88184342
Not him, but the academic view of colorblindness (judge not by color of skin but content of character, etc) is seen as racist now.

>>88184666
>he doesn't hate beast
get out ree

>>88183111

Even if you whitewash his actions, he still has the belief set of a nazi combined with the sense of entitlement of a victimized group. It's unavoidable for him.

>>88180635
There's a big difference between being an airborn infectious agent that controls people at will from a pathogen you have to repetitively ingest in a concentrated form

Which does Sublime prefer to be?

>>88176601
Magneto was always a hypocritical genocidal mega bastard.

>>88181515
Magneto Was Right

>>88189870
They wanted to get rid of Sublime too, as "telepathic sentient bacteria existing from the beginning of life on Earth is the real reason people hate mutants" was less liked than what he did to Magneto.

>>88183407
And guess what? He didnt!
You got your retcon, fanboy. Quit whining.

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>>88183513
>trayvon martin = jihadi john

>>88191066
It doesn't actually matter, as infection is infection. Not to mention that according to the run itself Kick was very popular among mutants.

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Marvelfags don't deserve Morrison's genius. Go back to reading your SJW pandering garbage, pleb

>>88185999
I was glad we got to keep Xorn. He seemed too profound conceptually, and as a character, and power-wise, to just be someone else's mask

>>88191280
Yes, it definitely matters. The difference between HIV and the common cold's virulity is what keeps humanity alive. Likewise the sublime bacteria and mutantkind.

Plus, even a wildly popular drug will only ever be used by a fraction of the population. Especially if that drug eventually turns out to be evil mindcontrol. How long before that came out?

>>88191281
So you didnt love gay Iceman?

>>88191624
Except the issue was that Grant's assertion that mutants would eventually outbreed humanity into extinction was his motivating factor. By giving him a ubiquitous way to get around that weakens his motivations. Plus you've got the issue that if all of humanity is infected by Sublime then things like Mutant Town wouldn't exist. His whole take on mutants as a burgeoning subculture going mainstream doesn't make sense if Sublime is around.

Sublime's problems are that he's a solution to a problem that already has several better solutions and he's a Grant Morrison cape villain. Morrison writes incredibly shallow cape villains for various reasons, mostly due to his views on superheroes as mythology and morality tales. His villains are evil. The actions they take are designed to further that evil. The thoughts they think are about evil things. They hatch grand, evil schemes, are defeated, and, unless doing a redemption narrative or editorial overrides him, they die or have a death analogue.

I also fucked peter milligan

>>88186864
I'd have been annoyed but I certainly wouldn't have doubled back and tried to beat him to death.

Morrison's run is one of the worst era of the x-men, along with Austen