Just saw it for the first time. I understand now, DCfags...

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You're welcome.

>>88099360
And lo and behold the shilling comes to /co/. At least keep your marketing shit to /tv/ you ass.

>>88099360
I understand that you want to create another "discussion" about this movie. Nothing more can be said, move on

>>88099438
>>88099484
>>88099491
Oh fuck. Did that come off as positive? Lol no I fucking hated it

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>>88099515

>>88099360
Mods please come delete this obvious marketing.

>>88099515
>Oh fuck. Did that come off as positive?

the ironic shilling of BvS has been going on so long that yes, it did come off as positive, especially since "DCfags" are the ones supporting it usually.

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>>88099491
We can talk about the fact that this was obviously booster gold, not flash

>>88100434
Of course. Booster Gold appeared in Suicide Squad too.

>>88100392
>DC fags
Naw people who like DC don't like BvS.

No sane person can look at the bloated boring pile of shit that is that movie and say it's good. The 2deep4u and the comic panel references don't make the dumbass plot work.

>>88099360
Understand what?
The magnitude of how undiluted kino it was?
How it was wronged by shill critics?

>>88100872
Maybe stop looking at the world how you want to look at it. I love DC (and Marvel) and I loved BvS. It's not exactly like the comics but it has a lot of good in it.

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>>88100734
>Booster Gold appeared in Suicide Squad too.
I-I don't remember this

>>88100434
Booster would actually be fun so no dont expect to see him anytime soon

>>88100392
>especially since "DCfags" are the ones supporting it usually.
Woah there. Don't confuse us for DCEUfags.

Most DCEUfags don't read comics or at least didn't until the DCEU. Most of them are from /tv/ and have next-to-no real understanding of the DCU and just pretend to. Don't lump longtime DCfags in with those people. We're completely different.

>>88099515
so name some things about it that were bad

>>88102153

I'm a DC fag and i liked Batman vs Superman.

>>88103000
This.

>>88102942
Lex

>>88103031
so what was wrong with him other than "not muh"

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>It's a DCEU thread
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTIdOL77XKc

>>88103060
is this an easy way to state that people cant argue it wasnt a good adaption?
because it is a legit complaint

>>88100872
>>88102153
fuck off im a huge DC fag, have been reading DC comics since middle school, literally have Jack Kirby's 4th world omnibus sitting right here next me, own original issues of GL/GA Hard Traveling Heroes, original prestige edition issues of DKR, own Secret Identity, ASS, Solo, first three volumes of Saga of the Swamp Thing, all four original trades of 52, first volume of Morrison's Doom Patrol, most trades of Astro City, and thats just off the top of my head without going into my digital collection.


I fucking loved BvS. A real superhero comic fan understands that these characters adapt and change, and are meant to reflect our times and our world. Golden Age Superman fucking threatened politicians and beat up muggers and destroyed their shitty and was a petty fuck. Silver Age Superman was largely a petty fuck who would get jealous very easily. Post-Crisis Superman was very depowered, to the point where he needed an apparatus to breath in space.


Same goes for Lex, who started as a mad scientist with bright orange hair, and became a fat businessman in the Byrne era, and then a strong built bald man in the 90s alongside the DCAU.


BvS is just continuing the tradition of comics, taking these characters and elements from previous stories, and recontextualizing them for today.


Fake fucking comic fans think there is one, true definitive version of a character, and think that smiling is more important than actually saving the world when it comes to Superman.

>>88103304
It was a great adaptation of Golden Age/early Silver Age Lex, with a little Gene Hackman thrown in there, for the modern day.

It's perfectly fine and acceptable to like BvS, but if you're pretending it's some kind of masterpiece, you're either retarded or fooling yourself.

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>>88104442
It is masperpiece

>>88103895
No, it was a poorly written, goofy and wildly inconsistent character who coincidentally shared a couple similarites with a few different versions of Lex Luthor.

>>88104474
>that picture
Okay, so what's the point of any of this shit?

>>88104442

I unironically think it has some of the best imagery ever used in a superhero movie. The shot of the person on the roof reaching out for Superman in the montage is my favourite shot out of any recent movies. There are a few things i didn't like about it like Lex purposely acting zany and that they didn't let Superman talk in the courtroom. But overall i loved the movie.

>>88104629
I think that's pretty solid reasoning and I can respect your opinion.

>>88102942
>Flimsy plot held togeather by a bad script
>awful rushed third act
>shit design for Doomsday
>the movie required that nearly all characters be completely new OCs
>the director is a visual man, like Michal Bay, meaning he can't into human emotions
>first onscreen meeting of Batman and Superman was forced to be a Vs movie
>rushed in tofu Toons for the rest of the JL
>Wonder Woman for no reason actual reason
>the kickstart for the DC movieverse was three adaptations of 'End Game' comics, Death of Supes, Dark Knight Returns

I could go on, but no matter what you're going to disagree and tell me the movie was great. It looked good, and the action was cool, but everything else in that movie was so forgetable that it should be Rebirth'ed.

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>>88104681
>tofu Toons

>>88104732
I have no idea how "Rushed Introductions" turned into Tofu Toons....

I've never seen this. Is there any reason at all to do so after being disappointed in Man of Steel?

>>88104836
No. Go make a sandwich instead.

>>88104836
Batman can actually fight in the movie, but that's about it

>>88103888
This

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>>88104836
First you need to re-watch MoS.
I didn't like it the first time either.

t. guy who loves the DCU and the DCEU

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>>88103888
This is a good post.

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>>88103888

>>88105578
end uroreself

>>88104681
It wasted two character defining moments for a silly brawl that had no purpose other than to get the maguffin into place.

Movie is comical how slipshod it is in its use of materials.

>>88104474
I can't even tell if this is bait anymore, for god's sake.

>>88105627
>silly brawl that had no purpose other than to get the maguffin into place.
sounds like Marvel to me

>>88104681
>good script (proper plot, dialogue, etc.)
>not rushed (look at Fant4stic for an example of a rushed third act)
>Doomsday was an amalgamation of his normal state and his former state (that is, prior to being fully evolved)
>all characters have their core intact with only minor differences
>various scenes were emotional unless you're autistic or a sociopath
>company has wanted a Batman vs. Superman meeting for years; it had to happen sometime
>they weren't introductions
>Wonder Woman had a decent role to play
>doing things backward works if done properly

Anything else?

>>88104524
To express a film's themes through visuals rather than just having characters recite metaphors

>>88099515
Yeah because fans of DC are able to see it properly. Non-fans are the ones that get butthurt.

>>88105673
Tons of other movies do that.

>>88105673
Yet that's also done with Lex and his inane monologues I'm supposed to accept as his modus.

>>88103888
Nice try but I watched and episode of the animated series so I'm a bigger fan than you! My voice should have more weight than you comic nerds!

Only the version I grew up with counts!
Actually, isn't that exactly Dobson's mentality?

>>88104681
I only agree with Doomsday's design and the last point about adapting endgame material. We really should've gotten the Batman solo and another Superman before this film.
On its own BvS is good, it was just way too early to do it considering they're trying to set up a universe.

>>88105716
>I'm supposed to accept as his modus.

>implying Lex wasn't well written

>>88105697
And you can actually see them without having to mess with the contrast and brightness

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>>88105733
tired meme
BvS looked incredible in IMAX.

Also, the problem is your tv.
The BvS blu ray got high marks for picture quality.

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Batman-v-Superman-Dawn-of-Justice-Blu-ray/130492/

>>88105673
Because character interaction is bad but cryptic seek 'n finds are masterpieces.

>>88104474
Symbolism and proper visual themes are necessary, but not sufficient to make a masterpiece. BvS also has a level of depth for both the characters and the story.

My favorite part is the theme of power. I always did think that power isn't what corrupts people, but how they use that power. Batman shows how having power doesn't corrupt you, but instead it's having power while FEELING powerless. That's what causes you to use the power in an evil way to show that you have it. Think about it, if you had a bunch of power and were satisfied, why would you ever want to use it? There's no reason to. The king isn't going to just go around killing people for no reason as a display of power; he does it out of fear (ie powerlessness).

>>88105697
you're right. There are other movies that use visual metaphors

>>88105716
Lex's modus is that he was abused as a child by his father, lost faith in god and focused all that hate on Superman, an all powerful solar god who fucked up his city. Lex saw his father in Superman. It's a crazy, psychological reason but Luthor has always been a complete sociopath in every adaptation

>>88105762
There is a lot of character interaction. And i'd like to see you throw the same criticism at a David Lynch film

>>88105802
>in every adaptation
Except in alt universes where he's the good guy :^)

>>88105729
And now Death of Superman is wasted. They try to pull that again it's just going to be Goku post Vegeta saga. That being a waiting game to his eventual resurrection.

I think we can all agree Lex's theme is fucking perfection

>>88105835
I love it, but the narrative is that the music sucks.
WW's theme is great, too.

>>88105834
Good. The only good part of Death of Superman was Reign of the Supermen and that doesn't work well in this universe. Though, I guess it could still be done if Superman goes off planet for an adventure.

>>88099360
You guys are just going to get worse and worse each movie aren't you?

That's kinda sad and a tad scary as well.

As some of you actually believe that nonsense and aren't just shitposting.

>>88105891
>le condescending arbiter of taste
neck yourself lad

>>88105891
So you paid or you do it for free?

>>88103072
I never understood why people would hold films in high regard until I saw BvS.

>>88105717
Bait.

>>88107284
Yes Snyder, that's very nice, but everyone already knows what a great guy Superman is.

>>88107279
>muh pretty pichurs

>>88100872
i've likely read more comics than you and loved BvS you autistic fuck.

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>>88107296
>fuck good visuals in a visual medium that help tell the story

>>88107284
>Not pictured: The film

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>>88107296
>implying struggling with what is truly the right thing to do doesn't make you a great guy

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>>88107305
the statue is from the movie

>>88107284
It really makes you think

>>88107303
I fail to see what this image is supposed to illustrate. That scene of Val Kilmer seducing a bat wasn't even in Batman Forever, it was deleted. Besides, the...ugh, "Knightmare" scene of the big bat demon jumpscaring Bruce was just stupid and pointless. The only reason that Snyder added it is because he thought the movie wasn't weird enough.

BvS, like every other bad Snyder flick, is style over substance.

>>88107311
>implying I was implying that in the least

>>88107351
Well that's just fucking silly.

>>88107331
>>88107336
If Easter eggs are what make good movies, I suppose Iron Man 2 is a masterpiece.

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>>88107354
he was very obviously referencing, despite it being a deleted scene its still well known. And just like how the Kilmer scene was originally meant to be Bruce dealing with his dark side a la Luke in the cave, Snyder used to illustrate how Batman had become consumed with his crusade/dark side.

>>88107351
I dont get it..

>>88107373
No, the subplot in Forever was about Bruce embracing his choice to become Batman. That's the whole crux of his monologue to the Riddler at the end. He is no longer Batman because he thinks he needs to be, but because he chooses to be.

The two scenes have entirely opposite meanings.

>>88107370
>>88107399

The whole movie uses western mythology to contextualize Superman. Hence the Paradise Lost painting in Lex's room, the biblical imagery, the Oz reference, the intentional reference to the Kennedy/Unknown Soldier funeral at Superman's funeral, the news clippings of the JFK assassination attempt, etc.


They illustrate how people have different views of him.
The "easter eggs" are a very nice nod to the comics, and one begins a thread of deconstructing The Dark Knight Returns comic that the movie carries till the end, and the other is meant to be some nice symmetry. Better than anything ive seen in any other cape film.

>>88107413
The scene with Kilmer going into the cave is meant to be him conquering his inner demon, as illustrated by the bat, and coming out the otherside a good batman. In Snyder's it is meant to show how he lost that battle with the bat and has become evil batman we see in the movie. So you are right, they do have opposite meanings intentionally. Like how he uses scenes from The Dark Knight Returns but literally flips their meanings around.

>>88107433
*intentionally flips their meaning around

Repeat after me, fags:

references =/= substance

>>88107414
>uses western mythology to contextualize Superman
That is entirely fucking unnecessary. Superman doesn't need to be contextualized because HE IS western mythology. These characters have been around for nearly a century of comic books, movies, cartoons and TV shows, everyone knows who they are and what they're deal is. Superman is good, Lex is evil and thinks that Superman is evil, there ya go. All the other set dressing Snyder throws in is the definition of pretentiousness.

>are a very nice nod to the comics
Exactly, Easter eggs. Nothing more. They are there for the fans to recognize and nothing else.

>Better than anything ive seen in any other cape film.
Every other cape film is less pandering.

>>88107448
but they can be used to add substance, like how Filini directly homages the Seventh Seal in the end to 8th 1/2 to drive his point home, or how Moore uses literary characters for LoEG to comment on them/society, or how The Great Gatsby references that World Series baseball game scandal as a quick way to add character to Meyer Wolfsheim.

>>88107518
Well, it's a shame Snyder isn't that clever then.

BvS sucked comparably to most everything Marvel does. It tried to do too much shit and dropped the ball. Only thing that was nice were the fight scenes with very little Superman.

>>88107471
>That is entirely fucking unnecessary.

This movie is set in a world where Superman hasn't been around for years, so literally all people have is other myths with which to try and contextualize him. I mean its literally what comics have been doing since the birth of Superman, his whole outfit is modeled after classic strongmen as a way of contextualizing him for that day's audience. He is literally a re-contextualized Moses archtype.


>Exactly, Easter eggs. Nothing more.
But I just told you they were something more. One is symmetry, the other starts a whole thread of deconstructing The Dark Knight Returns by flipping the scenes on their head. Even that scene isn't a perfect homage because it has Thomas attacking the mugger which, again, starts the thread of flipping The Dark Knight Returns to re-enforce the story beats.
>>88107525
I disagree, just look at
>>88107414

>>88107518
Kubrick recreated a few renaissance paintings on film for Barry Lyndon, but they didn't overshadow the characters or were used to add meaning to scenes that couldn't stand on their own legs.

When Snyder does it, it's just that.

Even Tarsem Singh does more to actually add meaning to his shit.

>>88107541
I think it managed to do everything really well, and even found a way to make all the foreshadowing/set ups for future movies relevant to the plot.

Like how when Bruce sees the little things for the other justice league members, he emails Diana asking something to the effect of "where have you been?" They managed to use a set up for another movie as a way of highlighting and adding to Bruce's paranoia and feelings of abandonment; re-enforcing his motivation.


And the other set up, the future vision, managed perfectly show us Bruce's worst fears without him having to have a bunch of shitty exposition. And Flash from the future telling him to save her (which he thinks is another dream) adds to his reasoning to go save Martha.


Even Wonder Woman was used as a foil to Superman and Batman, showing bruce and the audience that super-beings have abandoned the world before but, just like Bruce, can be good again.
Better than the stupid ass dreams in the middle of Age of Ultron, or having all the characters appear in Civil War out of no where and have nothing to do with the plot at all except have one big fight scene.

>>88107558
No it isn't, the entire movie stands on its own without any of the homages.


>Even Tarsem Singh does more to actually add meaning to his shit.

But I just told you how it adds meaning.

>>88103888
I have a lot of issues with the movie, but I loved a lot of specific parts of it.

Your post is really good.
I like looking at comics like mythologies. You can pick certain things to give additional weight to in their chronicles, but things are remembered differently from time to time and so the myth evolves. Sometimes you like it, most of the times you hate it, but if everything always stays the same, then things grow stagnant and the myth becomes stale.

>>88107595
Thank you for your respectful, and high quality post. Is there any specific comic you would like to see storytimed tomorrow?

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>>88107542
>This movie is set in a world where Superman hasn't been around for years
Yeah, well we live in a world where Superman is a fictional character who has existed for nearly a century.

>so literally all people have is other myths with which to try and contextualize him
Well, great job, Snyder made a masterpiece for an audience that only exists within the realms of his own movie.

>I mean its literally what comics have been doing since the birth of Superman
Yes, and they've done a bang-up job of it. Such a bang-up job that they have left absolutely nothing new for Snyder to bring to the table.

>One is symmetry
Oh look, Superman got stabbed by Zod just like his dad did, isn't that noteworthy, next.

>the other starts a whole thread of deconstructing The Dark Knight Returns by flipping the scenes on their head
I suppose you're not going to explain how that plays into Snyder's grand vision.

>

>>88107579
>But I just told you how it adds meaning.
And why does your opinion matter?

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>>88107579
>the entire movie stands on its own

>>88107609
>Well, great job, Snyder made a masterpiece for an audience that only exists within the realms of his own movie.

No, its to re-enforce the feelings that the people in the movie have. It illustrates it beyond just showing us through their actions and their words. The death of JFK was largely viewed as the loss of America's innocence, by referencing with Superman's funeral it shows us that people are not just sad about Superman dying, but that it had a a huge impact. Even without the reference everything stays the same, its just a re-enforcement.
>Yes, and they've done a bang-up job of it. Such a bang-up job that they have left absolutely nothing new for Snyder to bring to the table.
So you are saying no one should ever contextualize superman or have him reference something ever again?
>Oh look, Superman got stabbed by Zod just like his dad did, isn't that noteworthy, next.
Visual/story symmetry can be a nice and satisfying little cherry on top sometimes. Or in this case add an extra layer of tragedy that Zod got to win twice.


>I suppose you're not going to explain how that plays into Snyder's grand vision.
Sure, The Dark Knight Returns comic has Batman as the person coming in to shake things up, change society, and as someone who the media and public is split on opinion wise (some view his coming back as a terrible thing, some love it) but who we the audience know is good intentioned. Superman is the reactionary stooge and protector of the status quo who doesn't believe Batman's actions are good. In BvS its all reversed. Superman is the good intentioned changer of society, whom the public is split on. While Batman is the reactionary stooge. He faithfully recreates certain scenes from The Dark Knight Returns (like Superman being a nuked skeleton in space) but recontextualizes them, reverses them in meaning, to highlight this deviation from the source material.

>>88107642
why does yours? At least I put thought into a movie im passionate about, instead of taking time out of my day to tell anonymous strangers that I don't like a movie.

>>88107579
>No it isn't, the entire movie stands on its own
But it doesn't.

>>88107701
There isn't a single motivation, characterization or plot point that relies on a homage to understand.

>>88107573
Visions and Flash from the future are both the most out of left field bullshit. It's Batman, why the fuck is he having visions AND a time traveler telling him shit? It was too much. They put far more shit into the movie than they should have. Wonder Woman was way too much of a McGuffin. Her being in the film for the earlier acts actually felt like it just helped to drag the entire thing along. The movie didn't care about her, she was just there. A hindrance until she just happened to find something big to hit. Which was the only good thing about her being in the movie. Her tanking shots with the shield and Batman's scrambling over debris to not get vaporized was more enjoyable to watch than Superman punching really hard.

Black Panther made a lot of sense plot wise. He was there and he helped to drive the plot in ways the rest of the cast would not be able to. Spider-Man was there because he's the biggest hero of our era and they wanted his power of draw. He had a small role that played no big part but did a great job lending himself to the huge cast. Wonder Woman and Spider-Man could be written out of the movies with no big change. Civil War fight still goes on, Bruce doesn't get roadblocked out of nowhere and lands someplace Doomsday can't find him long enough for Superman to pop on down. There are only 2 instances that Wonder Woman effects the movie. Stealing Bruce's drive, and saving Batman's life. She doesn't steal it. Cool, movie keeps going. Batman maybe lands IN the building instead of on the steps and hides in rubble or takes potshots whilst zipping around. Also cool. Wonder Woman is just bloat on this already bloated movie.

>>88107690
Yeah, but you're doing it badly. So I wouldn't brag about it.

Having a passion is only admirable when it's for something deserving. Your huge passion for dragon dildos doesn't make you a better person.

So, we're putting this on the list of movies not say you like in front of nerds right? Like the Star Wars Prequels, Ghostbusters 2016, and Man of Steel?

>>88107771
fuck off you literal drone
>is it cool to not like this movie?

>>88105514
The first time I watched MoS it was a massive disappointment.

The second time I watched it, it sucked even harder.

>>88107780
Ay, I just want a list of things to know to avoid so I can avoid all this in all it's rank glory in person. MoS was shit regardless.

>>88105514
>liking a Superman movie

>>88107745
>It's Batman, why the fuck is he having visions AND a time traveler telling him shit?

Because he's Batman. Duh.

One thing I want to say is that of all the shit that /co/ slowly comes to accept, I'm glad the one thing a good chunk of /co/ refuses to accept MoS or BvS as decent movies. Might be a few guys that like that shit, but at least a good chunk of dudes pop up to tell them to fuck off.

>>88107831
>Might be a few guys that like that shit, but at least a good chunk of dudes pop up to tell them to fuck off.

Too bad it's always the same inane complaints that highlight they didn't understand the movie.

>>88107820
No, shut the fuck up. You get one or the other. Getting 2 future forecasts is borderline Mary Sue shit.

>>88107852
What is there to understand? It's not a deep movie in the slightest.

>>88107863

That's what makes the complaints so hilarious.

>>88107876
If it's not deep there is nearly nothing they can miss in terms of what's wrong with the movie. It's got a million glaring faults.

>>88103000

Very much this.

>>88103888

Nice post. I agree completely.

>>88103888
>>88105151
>>>88103888
>>88107595
>>88108472

Your samefagging is patethic, Snyderfag.

>h-huuur its not samefagging, look at this print that I took and spent 15 minuts to edit as a proof!

>>88107354
>style over substance.
BvS has substance AND style. Something that you obviously didn't think was possible.

>>88107907
It is deep and it has 0 flaws.

>>88108882
>BvS has substance AND style.
No it doesn't

>>88109232
Yeah, it does. Keep watching it until you get it.

>>88109248
I'm not watching your movie again, Zack, I won't be tricked so easily.

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>>88107303
>>88107373
You sure it's not another Dark Knight Returns thing?

>>88109267
Then you'll never get it. I mean, your loss but don't go lying about it.

>>88105649
Marvel spent years setting up Civil War with both Iron Man and Capt. America receiving several films which established their ideals.

DC spent two movies establishing that the plot could've been avoided if everyone involved wasn't a fucking retard who were content with just letting the bad shit happen to them, even when they could see the shitstorm coming from a mile away.

>>88109290
There's nothing to get, Zack.

>>88109304
>Marvel spent years setting up Civil War with both Iron Man and Capt. America receiving several films which established their ideals.

Yeah, no. They literally only decided to do Civil War after BvS was announced. There was no years long set up, that's why they already fight in AoU, only to reconcile at the end, and then suddenly they fight again in Civil War. And their friendship was never built properly. Stark had more heart to heart shit with Banner than Steve.

>>88109310
Watch the movie to find out.

>>88109304
Civil War could have been avoided if the two people who worked hard together for many years just sat down and had a real debate, something which would be impossible in BvS. Civil War was a million times more contrived.

You can keep going on about "muh money" and "muh critics" but BvS was an objectively better movie in technical aspects and script.

>>88103000
Same. Had my problems with it and I still want a cut without doomsday at all but I still saw it twice in theaters and bought the special edition blu ray.

>>88109403
>had a real debate
They had an agreement, them the guy made Bucky break out from prison, forcing Cap to stop him and go outside of the law.

>something which would be impossible in BvS


BRUCE, WAIT, LEX KIDNAPPED MY MOTHER, PLEASE HELP ME!

The stupidiest part is that Lex wasnt even monitoring the fight, so he could never know it.

Or the fact that in 3 years, Bruce never cared to find who Superman is - while Lex DID it, and it proved to be effective.

>script

The script is universally mocked and hated. It is just full of plot holes and contrived shit, because Snyder thinks first on "trailer scenes" and less on making these scenes make sense.

For example? Batman asking if WW is with Supes, when he already knew and had read about her origin on a previous scene.

>>88109403
>something which would be impossible in BvS
Due to shit writing, yes.
>Batman doesn't wanna learn about his enemy! He just doesn't! Fuck you!
Is not good writing.

>>88103888
Trips for truth.

>>88109403
>>88109355
Iron Man was set up as a guy who wanted to make up for his mistakes and had trouble opening up with people or acknowledging his fuckups.

Capt. America was set up as a guy who believed in personal responsibility and wanted to avoid a situation where corruption got in the way of justice.

I could see why they had their PoV thanks to earlier movies which established that neither side was entirely right or wrong. It's not perfect but I could at least say "yeah, that syncs up with what I saw in previous films."

In BvS however, the entire fucking situation was set up for these two people to fight and there's nothing there to setup the fight beyond "it's the title, they have to fight."

Like, why is Superman butthurt about Batman's vigilante acts when he's done vigilante shit himself (see: the terrorist who he drove through a brick wall earlier in the movie).

The supes dies at the end and I'm sitting here like "I barely knew the guy, why should I care?"

>>88109527
You can stop samefaging now.

IP count didnt even raised.

>>88109648
>In BvS however, the entire fucking situation was set up for these two people to fight and there's nothing there to setup the fight beyond "it's the title, they have to fight."

So you just completely missed the orchestration by Lex and the fundamental difference in the way Superman and Batman approach being superheroes, not to mention Batman's rampant, feverish paranoia and PTSD and fall from grace, representing humanity's fear of Superman?


>Like, why is Superman butthurt about Batman's vigilante acts when he's done vigilante shit himself (see: the terrorist who he drove through a brick wall earlier in the movie).

Because he was torturing people and terrorizing people, dense anon.

>>88109683
>BvS fans are samefagging
>BvS haters are Twitter bots
Quality threads, everyone!

>>88103888
You're a faggot if you believe that people did not like BvS just because it does not follow the comic book characterisations.

No matter how much you turn it around, BvS lex is absolutely shit, all the way from character drive and motivation to dialogue and actor performance.

>>88103888
I agree with you about characters needing to adapt and change and I think people that complain about something not being 100% like the comics are dumb.

I still didn't like BvS, but I agree with your general message.

I liked it.

I get the hate though. When a genre is defined by being shit a decent movie is seen as a failure to emulate the genre.

>>88109804

>a decent movie is seen as a failure to emulate the genre.


Yeah dude the 40 minutes of CGi destruction porn that laughably qualifies as a third act was so totally different from all those other comic book movies. really flipped the genre on its head.

I have no idea how anyone can defend this film with the third act it has.

>>88109686
What I pretty much saw was not!Joker manipulating both sides into hating one another, even though both sides are guilty of the same bullshit, had no interactions prior to this film, and shouldn't have been able to fuck with Bruce in the first place.

Also, why is Batman torturing and terrorizing people in the first place?

I know that this is a reboot and all but it'd be nice to know why Batman went from a detective who took on meta-human villains to a and kept tabs on every major figure in the DC universe to a psychopath who brands his logo onto people's chests?

Do we even see someone doing something fucked up so we know why he deserved the brand? Because all we're told is that he only brands really bad criminals but our only word of authority on this is insane...so how do we know he's not just branding random people for fun?

And shouldn't the cops be doing an investigation on this guy? Shouldn't other heroes be involved?

Just saying.

>>88109686

Adding to >>88109835
>shouldn't have been able to fuck with Bruce in the first place.

Do we even see anything that would clue us in to Lex knowing Bruce and Clark's secret identities in this film?

Maybe I missed it but just sorta seemed like he just knew things so that he could move the plot along.

>>88107471
>HE IS western mythology
yes, in the real world. Not in the new one snyder was attempting to build. You know, in the movie. Which needs a setting and theme.

>These characters have been around for nearly a century of comic books, movies, cartoons and TV shows, everyone knows who they are and what they're deal is.

Why make the fucking movie then? Why not just sit around at home and discuss what we've already seen from these characters. You're a fucking fool.

>Every other cape film is less pandering.
Untrue and completely besides the point you were responding to. Anon said the nodding imagery was better (quality) than any cape film he'd seen. You responded with a snarky, untrue answer about quantity. Guardians had more E-Eggs than anything i've ever seen but they weren't images from comics they were silent set pieces.

This is why every BvS discussion is "you don't understand, you're retarded" met with "DC fags are pretentious and think we're dumb lol."

>>88109835

>I know that this is a reboot and all but it'd be nice to know why Batman went from a detective who took on meta-human villains to a and kept tabs on every major figure in the DC universe to a psychopath who brands his logo onto people's chests?

Because you're supposed to know about Jason Todd's death from prior reading knowledge.

Even though this is a new universe with wildly different characterisations.

So you know, forget everything you know about Batman, except don't otherwise the characters make no sense so I hope you know a lot about the character.

But forget everything you know, because this is a totally new version! That only works if you have that knowledge you're supposed to forget, just like Superman who gets his entire career of heroism turned into a depressing montage and skips directly to him being depressed and worn down despite him ending Man of Steel with a big dorky Welcome To The Planet smile on his face.

So I hope you have a lot of understanding and no understanding of these characters at the same time, anon.

>>88109835

I thought it was pretty obvious that this Batman has gone through a lot more shit than most other incarnations like Wayne manor burning down, Jason Todd being killed, finding out he's powerless to fight beings like Superman. This Batman seemed like one that had gone through so much he's too jaded to care about just stopping criminals anymore. I liked that the film played out the entire aspect of Batman being a completely paranoid asshole because he'd gone through a lot and it worked for me.

>>88109830
As you said, the third act was typical capeshit destruction porn. The rest of the movie was better than most capeshit.

>>88109967
>Batman being a completely paranoid asshole

Not paranoid enough to investigate Superman, or to notice that they guy in front of him that is exactly like Superman, is Superman.


Also, it was ridiculous how they basically transplanted the characterization of Lex Luthor into him, and basically removed anything that made the fight on TDK of Superman and Batman make sense, while keeping enormous chunks of it, and descontextualized lines.

How can a script be so poorly done? Its patethic and kind of funny.

>>88109967
I like that they stressed it, but has Bruce ever not been a paranoid asshole?

>>88109995
>The rest of the movie was better than most capeshit.

Haha no.

>>88108701
>hurrr samefag

The entire fucking point of an anonymous image board and why tripfaggotry is discouraged is because it theoretically forces even total retards to focus on post content instead of on the identity of whoever's presenting it. But some retards, like this one, can't even do this right and in the absence of a username system try to assign one anyways.

>>88109998
He wanted to stop Superman, not find out his identity.

>>88109967
Okay, it's nice that I'm TOLD why Batman is a psychopath but I'd like to be SHOWN why he's a psychopath instead.

Especially when Jason Todd's is a notable event in the DC universe and would've deserved a film in its own right. FFS, they could've made a live action Red Hood movie.

>>88110017
Haha yes.

>>88110029
Wouldn't it stand to reason that knowing where your enemy lives would be advantageous to your assassination attempt?

I mean, considering people were afraid of Supes, holding his secret identity over his head would've probably worked in your favor.

>>88108701
Go back to lelddit. You have no reasonable justification for the claim of samefagging.

>>88109998

Because he was so obsessed with the idea of the evil alien he didn't care about his identity. I doubt he cared about the identity of the criminals he branded anymore either.

>>88110015

The campy versions i guess?

>>88110035

It would've been nice but i don't think it was completely necessary for the film. I thought the message came across well enough even without showing everything that had happened to him.

>>88110069
Try to be less obvious.

>Because he was so obsessed with the idea of the evil alien he didn't care about his identity.

So they turned Bruce into Lex WHILE making Lex CARE about who he is?

>>88110054
He didn't want to prove to Superman that he has to be paranoid. He wanted to prove that even in a relatively fair fight Supes could lose. Batman wanted to prove that Superman could bleed, at very least so in Clark's most private moments he would know Bruce beat him. The idea that Superman thought of himself as truly invincible and therefore above humanity is what scared Bruce the most.

File: 1306062381817.jpg (64KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

64KB, 640x480px

>>88105514
I rewatched BvS recently and ended up really liking it

But I tried the same with MoS and still think it's shit

>>88110069
>Go back to lelddit.

Funny because reddit is the only place where people like this shit.

>>88110083
>It would've been nice but i don't think it was completely necessary for the film. I thought the message came across well enough even without showing everything that had happened to him.

It really was.

Just for perspective, Iron Man and Capt. America had years of films that were there to establish their characters and CW capitalized on that since it was a story about conflicting ideals rather than good vs. evil.

Watching Civil War, I could say "yeah, I remember that from X and can say that it syncs up with my expectations for this character."

On the other hand, BvS just introduces Batman as wildly out of character for what he normally is yet expects us to accept this Batman with no context and no characterization beyond "I HATE SUPERMA~AN!"

If Superman got a movie that mishandled his character arc then Batman should've gotten a movie that mishandled his character arc. At least then I could go into BvS and say "eh, it's crap but at least it's consistent."

>>88110140

weird

I like BvS, but MoS feels more balanced film
BvS gone to shit in 3 act

>>88110181

Then the problem is you going into the movie with a pre-conceived notion that these characters need to be a certain way. They're new takes on characters. They're allowed to take them in a different direction. The film did a well enough job establishing Bruce's character and there's nothing else in the DCEU to contradict what the film established.

>>88110129
Batman's whole character revolves around subterfuge and misdirection though.

If he went up against his rogues gallery in a straight up fight, he'd lose, and he'd lose because he's an ordinary human going up against Poison Ivy, Mr. Freeze, Clayface, among others.

It makes no sense for Batman to suddenly fight him in a straight up fight and if his purpose was to show that he wasn't invincible, why not just mail Clark a piece of kryptonite with a message that basically reads "I know who you are Clark!"

>>88110105
I just got here. You are paranoid. How about instead of forcing opposition into a perceived conspiracy you simply realize ad populum is a fallacy.

>>88110180
Nah. He actually has a point despite "go back to lelddit" being overused. Lelddit not only has a username system but even a rep system; it was made for the type of person who thinks "hurr samefag" is a valid argument.

>>88110219
>Then the problem is you going into the movie with a pre-conceived notion that these characters need to be a certain way.
Based off of decades of comics, cartoons, movies, etc. that establish Batman as behaving in a certain way.

>They're new takes on characters.
Then a Batman movie was even more necessary since you'd need to establish why this is a new character and not the Batman we've associated with for ages.

>The film did a well enough job establishing Bruce's character and there's nothing else in the DCEU to contradict what the film established.
Which is easy when you only have two fucking films and Batman only appeared in one of them.

>>88110222
His character revolves around making the world a better place. He was trying to save the world, if not by killing Superman then by simply proving that Superman can bleed.

>>88102942
>Lex Luthor didn't have any clear motivation (he wanted to kill Superman because he was God-like and Lex was an edgelord atheist or something)
>Batman was a complete unlikeable dick ("If there's even a 1% chance that this guy who has been fighting criminals and saving the world could turn bad, I need to murder him!")
>The reasons they hate each other are confusing, Superman thinks Batman is dangerous because he goes too far and is too brutal, but Batman is against Superman because civilians died while he was fighting bad guys.. so they both are against each other for being too rough essentially.
>"Oh his mommy had the same name as my mommy! The feels! I'm gonna completely change my mind for this emotional reason because I'm a child. Excuse me while I suck my thumb."
>Batman casually kills people
>Superman edgy and silent, not hopeful or inspirational
>Doomsday, retarded origin, uninteresting character, doesn't speak, no motivation, just mindless killing machine, shitty CGI
>Way too much time spent watching fake looking final CGI fight
>Distracting Justice League cameos in an already bogged down movie
>CIA agent Jimmy Olsen, quickly executed
>Literally no jokes, humor or light moments, due to DC's 100% brooding angst policy

>>88110267
>His character revolves around making the world a better place.
By branding criminals with his logo so they're marked for death?

He wasn't saving shit man, if he wanted to make the world a better place then he should've been a detective like every other Batman incarnation has been for the last few decades.

>by simply proving that Superman can bleed.

What would Superman bleeding do? We've already established that Superman can take a building to the face and still look pristine so even if he could bleed, it'd take so much effort that everyone else on the planet would die long before Superman did.

See: Metropolis during the fight vs. Zod and Doomsday wrecking face before gettiing speared.

>>88110261

Different writers have written Batman differently for decades though. There is no such thing as is Nolan Batman exactly the same personality as Burton Batman? Or like Adam West Batman? This Batman still had everything that essentially makes him Batman only they made him more jaded than most other versions because he's stopped seeing the good.

>Then a Batman movie was even more necessary since you'd need to establish why this is a new character and not the Batman we've associated with for ages.

But why? What did the movie fail the establish that was essential to the plot or to Batman's characterization that was needed? We're told why he is the way he is. We don't *need* to be shown it too.

>Which is easy when you only have two fucking films and Batman only appeared in one of them.

But there's no issue with a lack of consistency if this is the film that establishes this version of Batman then. It's just a complaint that he's not like what you feel Batman should be.

>>88110332
>By branding criminals with his logo so they're marked for death?
Yes, he is getting more desperate and jaded, as other anons have pointed out.

I don't like the idea of shooting to kill even in self defence but if I had a vision about the large scale culling of humanity and their enslavement that I thought was even remotely possible then I would be willing to do anything to stop it.

>What would Superman bleeding do?
Even if Batman lost, which Bruce was very aware could happen, at least doing some damage might put the fear of god into him. That's what that line about Superman not being brave because he couldn't be hurt and therefore wasn't a man at all. Bruce wanted Superman to feel that fear such that he might at absolute least feel more like he was one of us. That token change in Superman's image of himself is a constant in all Batman vs Superman fights.

>>88103888

You are completely right. But I didn't hate BvS because it was different, I hated it because it was shit.
The story was awful, the characters were stupid and the tone was obnoxious.

Mixing up some elements and riffing off the established iconography and lore, whilst creating a tone distinct from the MCU is a great approach. However the actual production was grim, incompetent and embarrassing.

>>88110364
>This Batman still had everything that essentially makes him Batman only they made him more jaded than most other versions because he's stopped seeing the good.

Except for the fact that he doesn't do any research on his opponents, gets played by Joker-lite, and brands people with his logo knowing that it's a death sentence to do so.

>We're told why he is the way he is. We don't *need* to be shown it too.

Which would be more memorable?

Seeing Jason Todd being brutally murdered and watching Batman sink into his despair or being told why he's a psychopath in passing?

>But there's no issue with a lack of consistency if this is the film that establishes this version of Batman then.

When you're rebooting an established franchise, you need to show the audience why this incarnation is the way that he is.

It's just bad storytelling, especially when his character has already been given a consistent characterization in other media beforehand.

>>88110413
>Yes, he is getting more desperate and jaded, as other anons have pointed out.
Why is he more desperate and jaded though? What made him go from detective to psychopath and why aren't we shown the transition beforehand?

Also, why aren't the police doing something about this guy? Why aren't other heroes doing something about this guy? Because in a world of DC heroes, a bat themed criminal who brands a bat symbol on people's chests wouldn't be out of place or beyond some other hero's notice, especially when there are other people who are just as smart as Batman.

Now that I think about it, why wasn't the plot about Batman outrunning the authorities while Supes helped to apprehend him? It certainly would've justified a lot more of the plot than what we received in this drek.

>muh superman bleeds
Wouldn't that have been a plotline to utilize in a movie where Supes doesn't bite the dust at the end of it?

Also, why not just have Lex doing this instead of Batman?

>>88110443
>However the actual production was grim
yes,
>incompetent
no
>and embarrassing.
no

>>88109686
>the fundamental difference in the way Superman and Batman approach being superheroes
What difference?

>Because he was torturing people and terrorizing people, dense anon.

By your own argument humanity had a fear of Superman. Ergo, Superman was terrorizing them too.

Glad that people are still keeping up the good fight. Don't let anyone tell you this movie is bad, no matter what.

On a different note, what will happen with the Wonder Woman movie? Many critics said that they hated everything except Gadot's performance. Since she doesn't seem to have changed very much, will they be forced to give the movie a positive rating or will they find some other excuse to bash it? No Snyder either so that won't work.

>>88110929
As a huge fan of MoS and BvS, the future of the DCEU seems shaky.

I liked SS for what it was, but it was no BvS.
WW looks alright, not good. WW1 setting could be fresh.

I'm worried about the studio crippling JL with quips/more demographic pandering/focus testing.

BvS was one of those happy anomalies where a director had a ton of money to (mostly) make the movie he wanted.

>>88110594
>incompetent
Yes it was. Luthor's motivations and plan made no sense, Gadot, Adams and Cavill were entirely wooden and uncharismatic, and the Knightmare scene and Justice League cameos felt edited out of place.
>embarrassing
while this is subjective, I was squirming in my seat cringing during the jar of piss, kitchen sink and Martha scenes. Totally absurd.

>>88110566
I think we are getting to a point of the vagaries of human rationale where suspension of disbelief is more than warranted.

>Also, why aren't the police doing something about this guy?
That was addressed. The police were helping Batman. Clark didn't like that.

>Why aren't other heroes doing something about this guy?
>implying the metahuman hypothesis is true
>current year
Get a load of this guy!

>>88111010
>Luthor's motivations made no sense
He was half protecting humanity and half simply trying to become the most powerful person on the planet once again. That's, like, always been Lex's motivation. It's not even that outlandish and is actually fairly relatable. That's why I like Lex Luthor as a villain.

>>88111049
>I think we are getting to a point of the vagaries of human rationale where suspension of disbelief is more than warranted.
So you have no more evidence to support your argument and rather than bow out, you play the ol' "haven't you heard of suspension of disbelief" card and act as if you won the argument.

>That was addressed. The police were helping Batman. Clark didn't like that.
Why would the cops help batman?

It's not like Batman is taking on foes that are much more powerful than the police, he's branding criminals that any random cop could've dealt with on their own.

FFS, Rorschach got arrested for pulling off the same bullshit yet Batman gets a free pass?

>Get a load of this guy!
In a universe where WW is able to contact other heroes online and make s a justice league, why weren't there other super heroes coming in to drop kick Batman through a roof for engaging in wanton criminal acts of destruction?

>>88111078
>He was half protecting humanity

>Made Abomination out of nowhere.

>>88111194
Yes, just like in the comics.
He has ideals, but his ego gets in the way.

>>88111010
>I was squirming in my seat cringing during the jar of piss, kitchen sink and Martha scenes.
jfc I hope you're joking

Sometimes I worry about the kinds of people I post with here.

>>88111194
And mothers driven crazy by postpartum depression have killed their kids thinking they were doing the right thing.

>>88111194
Protecting humanity was Plan A and Plan B. Plan C was admittedly a bit of a stretch and had more to do with Lex becoming increasingly obsessed with Superman and his own failures to destroy Superman. That's what makes him a villain instead of, like, an anti-hero or whatever. Lex is objectively off his nutter.

>>88111271
>>88111296
>>88111308
Let's take a moment to call attention to the fact that Snyder introduced and squandered Doomsday's character before we even reached the definitive Justice League movie.

>>88111327
Darkseid > Doomsday

>>88111341
You still don't spend a character like Doomsday on the second fucking movie anon.

>>88111327
So?
We've already established that you have a case of the not muhs.

I'm sure you think DoS is bad anyway, which wakes your whining even more disingenuous.

>>88111371
see
>>88111374

What are you basing these 'rules' off of?

>>88111371
Yeah you do. We are getting to the point of over saturation. Capeshit can fail. One big failure and the whole Justice League franchise could sink.

>>88103888
>A real superhero comic fan understands that these characters adapt and change, and are meant to reflect our times and our world.
But that doesn't excuse the shitty writing that BvS had.

>>88111425
BvS didn't have shitty writing though.
At least not in comparison to other cape movies/comics.

>>88111441
BvS had blatantly shittier writing than most anything in the MCU.

>>88111327
I agree with that I say every time BvS is brought up. It should have ended with bats saving martha. Doomsday running the JL in a godzilla style movie would have been a great JL plot and a reason for aquaman and flash to unveil themselves ala Wonder Woman in the battle. And the "full" JL watching Supes die in the first "team" movie would have been perfect and a great unifying force (a bit too coulsen-ish but fuck it) for all of them instead of just bruce and diana.

But it doesn't invalidate my point that Lex not acting rationally makes perfectly plausible sense in the context of this film. He simply had a form of psychosis in this depiction.

>>88111374
>>88111388
>What are you basing these 'rules' off of?
The fact that you don't introduce one of the most dangerous beings in the DC universe within the last 15 minutes of the second film when we haven't even established how this incarnation works.

For reference, this would be like if Ultron got introduced in the second Iron Man movie, you gotta build up to that bullshit otherwise you're going to run out of credible threats to throw at the heroes.
>>88111417
No you don't, and the Justice League franchise is already sinking since every DC movie released so far has bombed.

If a movie about Superman vs. Batman can only break even, I shudder for the future of the franchise since Snyder is going to be running the show into the ground since he obviously doesn't understand how shit works.

>>88110978
I trust Zack to make a lighthearted movie because the jokes I've seen so far have been really funny to me. The quality doesn't worry me (as long as Snyder does it I know it's good), just the audience and critical reception.

What I was wondering is how the critics will receive future movies. Will they remain bitter until the end or will they finally start being more honest when the audience revolts?

>>88111495
Everyone in this film was either a retard, a psycho, or both.

Also, there's a massive stretch between being unhinged and creating a monstrosity using alien technology using your blood crossed with an alien's body.

In fact, having said that out loud, it really doesn't make sense even within the context of Lex wanting to kill Superman since he already had a means to kill Superman in the form of kryptonite.

In my opinion, BvS was a masterpiece.

I can watch it over and over again. It's legit my favourite movie of all time. Honest to God, no shilling, it's fucking amazing.

>>88111599
He is obsessed with Superman to the point of throwing out his ideals. That's why he is is a villain.

>>88111599
Every character in this movie was intelligent.

>there's a massive stretch between being unhinged and creating a monstrosity using alien technology using your blood crossed with an alien's body.
Yeah, the difference between being Prankster and Lex Luthor. Remember Bizarro? Of course not, you don't read comics.

>>88111620
Second favorite movie? Mine is Donner's Superman 1.

>>88111669
Second favourite movie is Shaun of the Dead.

In terms of films I will watch any day any time, BvS and SotD are two of the only ones.

>>88111620
If ANY capeshit movie barring maybe the original Donner Superman movie is your favorite movie of all time, you need to reassess your taste in cinema. Especially if it's something like BvS.

>>88111647
No one reads comics.

>>88111643
So his ideals were to make a monster that's just as destructive as Superman?

That's like setting your house on fire because you didn't want to pay property taxes.
>>88111647
>Every character in this movie was intelligent.
The most intelligent character was Lois, if only because she actually did detective work while Batman was too busy jerking his hate-boner for Superman to be one himself.

>Yeah, the difference between being Prankster and Lex Luthor.
How is a dude who sends a jar of piss to someone and shoves jolly ranchers in someone's mouth not a prankster?

Bruce Wayne was more of a Lex Luthor character than Lex Luthor was in this movie.

>>88099360
yeah, it sucks doesn't it?

>>88111599
I literally gave you a real example of a mental illness in which a MOTHER would kill HER OWN NEWBORN and legitimately think it was the only thing they could do.

And then you brought up Doomsday in an irrelevant post.

Then you agreed everyone has mental illness in this film, from Clarks obvious autism, Bruce's obvious OCPD, to Lex's savior-complex.

Then in that very post you claim that him acting irrationally doesn't make rational sense. You literally have NO point, Oblio.

Just came from /v/ to say that bvs was shit. Also where wonder woman tits at?

>>88111647
>Remember Bizarro?

On every version, Lex is developing a mean to CONTROL him, not randomly creating an unstable monster.

If Lex had at least told that he had in mind something to control Abomination, it would be ok.

But no, Snyder once more has a vilain that randomly gets mad and cause destruction for the sake of it on the finale.

>>88111585
>when the audience revolts?

BvS sells less dvds than Deadpool.

>>88111718
>The most intelligent character was Lois
Superman outsmarted both Lex and Batman. Batman was intelligent, but he just wasn't wise. The way he used his intelligence was a bad way to do it. He still had the heart of a hero though, that's why he wouldn't stoop as low as Lex did.

>How is a dude who sends a jar of piss to someone and shoves jolly ranchers in someone's mouth not a prankster?
Prankster the character. It's obvious you don't read comics so I don't know why you still go here. Lex does those things out of a sense of pride. He treats everyone else like a child because he thinks he's so far above everyone.

>Bruce Wayne was more of a Lex Luthor character than Lex Luthor was in this movie.
This portrayal of Bruce was the best live action portrayal ever. The amount of love he gave to his employees was admirable.

>>88111695
I'd say Spider-Man 1/2, and Burton's Batman are reasonable choices for favorite movie of all time.

>>88109403
>objectively

Stop using that word to describe your opinions you buncha faggots.

>>88111695
I don't know. No movie has really touched me the way BvS did, but I really dug the themes, the symbology and stuff.

Don't get me wrong, I can understand why people dislike the movie, I just personally felt it was fantastic.

>>88111809
yeah I agree, it's definitely in my top 10 of all time, maybe top 5. I've already seen it like a dozen times, written several virtual essays about it, etc. I don't think people who don't get it are retards or anything, but it's become a little obsession of mine.

>>88111729
Everyone in this movie was retarded or psychotic for no other reason than to move the plot along. If Batman was allowed to remember that he was a detective, the entire second half of the film wouldn't have happened, which is what makes the whole thing so infuriating and stupid.

The plot only works if everyone in the Snyderverse was either insane or stupid or both, which is great if you're making a comedy or a sitcom like family guy but not for a serious film centered on two big name heroes throwing down.

>>88111807
It is objectively better when you analyze it in terms of film making. It's not an opinion.

File: 1445965119147.jpg (51KB, 670x472px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 670x472px

>BvS is for real fans, people who love the comics would understand it
>but Lex isn't like his comi-
>NOT MUH
>and Superman isn't as bright and ch-
>NOT MUH
>and Batman's plans didn't wo-
>NOT. MUH

>>88111873
>has never read a comic before

>>88111873
Snyder version is superior and has deeper meanings and characterization than the comic versions.

>>88111887
>i-if you dont like jar jar, you are not a r-real Star Wars fan!

>>88111873
it's telling that people considered Wonder Woman something good in this movie when she had literally under six lines total

>>88111911
Not even close. Keep trying to defeat strawmen though.

>>88111781
>He still had the heart of a hero though, that's why he wouldn't stoop as low as Lex did.
The only reason he stops is because they both had mothers with the same first name.

>He treats everyone else like a child because he thinks he's so far above everyone.
Still never saw Lex do stupid shit like delivering a jar of piss to someone though. Any truly intelligent person knows that you don't stoop down to an idiot's level.

>This portrayal of Bruce was the best live action portrayal ever.

O~okay, I think we're through here. Not even a nuke can get past the impregnable shield of a fanboy with blind loyalty.

Here's a (You) for the road sport.

>>88111873
Actual fans, not stupid fanboys, are able to recognize and appreciate an interpretation like Snyder's that respects the core aspects of a character and uses that to tell an interesting story with them in which they violate standard comic book characterization. I can enjoy 70s, campy, Neal Adams Batman, and Frank Miller Batman, and Grant Morrison Batman, and Zack Snyder Batman.

>>88111977
And of these versions are better than Snyderman.

There is no problem in being different, the problem is when you are still shit.

Hell, Landis had a better modern take on Superman than anything that Snyder could ever hope for.

>>88111977
>Core aspects of a character
>Characters are nothing like their comic selves

Pick one

>>88111977
Nothing that you've said invalidates anyone's criticism of the movie.

Any time anyone brings up anything completely valid against it, people like you respond with, "IT'S JUST A DIFFERENT TAKE AND THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT." But what about the numerous flaws of the movie? What about the writing? The pacing? That that whole argument is wrong to begin with?

>>88112020
Then you just get
>those things were fine stop lying

>>88111891
While I think this is a valid opinion for someone to hold I don't think better is what I would say. Simply different, but wholly proficient in their own way.

>>88111952
>The only reason he stops is because they both had mothers with the same first name.
No, you're simplifying it too much. That's like saying Iron Man tried to kill Bucky over a youtube video. If you keep doing this, then that's what I'll say.

>Any truly intelligent person knows that you don't stoop down to an idiot's level.
He's not? He's giving the person he's about to destroy a hint at who was responsible. Why wouldn't Lex do that? What should have happened instead was this part could have been changed by using a different idiom (flies to honey for example). It was really a product of Goyer trying to make up new idioms instead of using ones that have already been made. His own pride got the best of him, and they didn't bother changing this.

>I think we're through here.
AKA no arguments left. Glad to see you conceded. Either provide a better live action Bruce Wayne portrayal or accept that this one is the best.

>>88112012
They are in the ways that count. You only say that because you've never read a comic in your life.

>>88111441
Well, yeah compared to 90's FF and Catwoman, it really seems decent.

>>88099360
Did you watch the Ultimate Edition? The Ultimate Edition's better

>>88112020
I can't respond to literally every horseshit criticism that this movie gets all day, so I'm just pointing out that one of the criticisms, "NOT MUH," is horseshit. I'm sure idiots were yelling "NOT MUH" in 1986 when TDKR came out, or "NOT MUH" in 2009 when Batman and Robin came out.

People hate what they don't understand.

>>88112020
>Nothing that you've said invalidates anyone's criticism of the movie.
It invalidates that particular criticism, which is spewed a lot: "this version isn't the one I grew up with."

>But what about the numerous flaws of the movie? What about the writing? The pacing?
The writing was good and each scene was paced perfectly. Either give concrete examples or it's just words.

>>88112039
That's because it was fine and people never show how it isn't.

>>88111977
>Core aspects of a character
>Superman with no charisma AT ALL and barely human
>Clark fucking Kent is dead for good
>Batman is Punisher and a horrible detective.
>Lex knows that Superman is Clark and doesnt care at all, and is a giant idiot that do things like explode the congress with a bomb easily conected to him.

>>88104681
>>Wonder Woman for no reason actual reason
She was like, that movie's one saving grace.

>>88112082
almost no one was yelling not muh when TDKR came out lmao

the only thing people would bring up is Batman killing Ra's in the train and just like... sometimes

>>88112063
>He's complaining about poor characterization
>It's obvious because he never read a comic

Nothing about these films accurately reflect the characters they're introducing beyond how they look.

Think about this. BvS came out in March and has consistently, months and months later, we still have massive threads daily on /co/ and /tv/ about it.

Whereas Civil War came out in May, got a good response, and was instantly forgotten. Nobody talks about it anymore.

I like movies that leave you with something after you leave the theatre. The fact that people are still obsessed, positively or negatively, with it, nearly a year later, is a good sign to me.

are we still going to fall for this bait day after day?

no one actually likes this movie, neither audiences nor critics, the only people who "like" this movie are /tv/ shitposters

>>88112134
>We're still talking about it, that means something.
Yes. It means that nerds on the internet accentuate the negative. If anything the fact that it's turned into a five times daily dose of bait for shitposting is a reflection on its lack of quality.

>>88112115
>Movie's only saving grace
>Because she's an attractive woman who barely speaks.

See no problem with that capt. If only we could get the same saving grace in the WW movie.

>>88111292
Really? You thought that there was nothing embarrassing about the fact that the first opportunity we see for Superman to speak of his intended benevolent intentions (or any dialogue whatsoever) to the world, the scene is interrupted by an awkwardly long shot of a jar of urine followed by an explosion?

Or Superman being unable to explain the situation to Batman before getting his shit pushed in?

Or the fact that the only reason they stop fighting is because their mommies share a name despite Batman just saying he doesn't care about Superman's parents and that he has to be killed at all costs?

I worry too.

>>88112134
think about it, people still talk about The Room to this day but no one ever talks about Lawrence of Arabia anymore!

>>88112093
They do show it and then you go "you're lying/memeing"
You've got your head in the sand and that's fine but it means that the discussion has stopped.

>>88112127
This.

Plenty of other superhero movies that took lots of liberties didn't get the "NOT MUH" criticism. I think BvS did because it absolutely got several facets of each character wrong and BvSfags are going to have to deal with that.

>>88112134
Or maybe CW was yet another good Marvel movie and people are still talking about BvS because it was a trainwreck.

>>88112082
You're fucking delusional.

Nobody compalined about Ledger's Joker. Nobody complained about Nolan's trilogy in general (/tv doesn't count).
Change from the source material is fine, as long as it is a good and understandable change.

Now imagine if we apply your faggotry to Iron Man 3.

>NAHHH GUIZZ , IM3 IS TOTALLY LEGIT YOU JUST HATIN BECAUSE NOT MUH MANDARIN

>>88112134
>Think about this. BvS came out in March and has consistently, months and months later, we still have massive threads daily on /co/ and /tv/ about it.

Mostly because of the same 2 Snyderfags tryinf to shove this movie as something good, or bait.

/co/ doesnt talk about GOOD stuff.

You are literally a newfag if you think otherwise.

This is called "Hellboy clause".

This is why we have so many threads revolving around how shitty Marvel comics are, and so many threads revolving how shitty the DCEU is.

>They are talking about me, its good!

NO retarded anon, not when they only mock you.

>>88112134
Nobody wants to be remembered as the guy who shat in the pool and landed face first on a pile of dogshit.

The only reason Snyder gets brought up is because it's easy to make bait threads with it, literally no different than posting a thread implying smash is a fighting game on /v/ or posting a thread shitting on D&D on /tg/.

If anything, the more often something gets brought up on here, the shittier the final product turns out being.

>>88111327
I didn't mind that so much. Doomsday is a pretty one-dimensional character. I'm more irked that it doesn't make any sense for Luthor to create a far worse version of Superman that cannot be stopped or reasoned with.

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>>88099360
>it's a /co/ feels the need to defend three, soon five, shitty movies just because they like the comics they're adapted from episode
lol

>>88111327
>squandered Doomsday's character

He's literally a more retarded Hulk, he has mo character. He was the perfect tool for the climax fight.

>>88112279
Sup OP.

>>88112196
>Or maybe CW was yet another good Marvel movie

Yep, Civil War was another safe, mildly funny, vaguely entertaining, fleeting, formulaic, forgettable Marvel movie. And Batman v Superman is a vast, ambitious, original, political, philosophical, theological, risky epic, that is, admittedly, clumsy.

I'll take the later, thank you.

>>88111751
>On every version, Lex is developing a mean to CONTROL him, not randomly creating an unstable monster.

He mixed his own blood to the process on purpose, thinking it would control Doomsday. But Doomsday is uncontrollable due to Kryptonian DNA cloning hijinks. Lex was wrong. Hubris is always his downfall.

>>88112284
Nah, Metalllo would have been betterm but they were retarded and went with Abomination because they are hacks.

>>88112312
DCEU is, and will forever be remembered as the pseudo intelectual garbage that people and critics love to mock, and will probably be show on classes about how to not writte a movie and fuck your cinematic universe.

Live with it.

>>88112284
>>88112259
Except that Doomsday was a dude who LITERALLY KILLED SUPERMAN!

He's the dude you present at the end of JL movie after watching him kick the shit out of everyone in the league without breaking a sweat, including Superman.

You don't just stab him with a kryptonite spear and call it a day, especially when you only did it to kill off Superman at the end of the second goddamn movie in the franchise.

>>88112334
>He mixed his own blood to the process on purpose, thinking it would control Doomsday.
That makes no sense.
I mean shit does he think his father controlled him because genetics?

>>88112247
>>88112254
Fucking these.

BvS gets a lot of talk around here because /co/ loves to shit on things they hate. Just look at the occasional LoK threads we still get. We get more LoK threads than A:TLA threads, yet you'd be pretty dumb to claim that /co/ loved the former more. Spoiler alert, /co/ fucking hates LoK.

>>88112312
>Yep, Civil War was another safe, mildly funny, vaguely entertaining, fleeting, formulaic, forgettable Marvel movie.
Actually, it wasn't that safe or formulaic.

>And Batman v Superman is a vast, ambitious, original, political, philosophical, theological, risky epic, that is, admittedly, clumsy.
None of those things imply quality and it was more than "clumsy". It was a trainwreck. It will be remembered as such.

>>88112348
It's funny, because the MCU will go down in cinematic history.

>>88112306
OP is pretending these movies are great, retard.

>>88112334
>He mixed his own blood to the process on purpose, thinking it would control Doomsday.


This is not said on the movie, and we have NOTHING backing up that it might work on anyway, or even introducing to this concept.

It just make it sounds that out of nowhere he thought that putting his DNA into something would make him be able to control it, which again, makes no sense and has no basis with what the movie showed us.

Any good script would introduce the idea earlier, instead of doing some patethic shit like this.

>>88111952
>Still never saw Lex do stupid shit like delivering a jar of piss to someone though. Any truly intelligent person knows that you don't stoop down to an idiot's level.

He was mocking her, by using her own words against her, you moron. It's not stupid, it's incredibly petty, which is exactly 100% Lex.

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>>88112348
>DCEU is, and will forever be remembered as the pseudo intellectual garbage that people and critics love to mock, and will probably be show on classes about how to not write a movie and fuck your cinematic universe.
tpbp

I've literally never seen or heard of anyone but this cantonese imagur defend these movies and most of the time you can tell its just shitposting.

>>88111867
>in terms of film making

No, it's just your personal opinion of what makes a better looking and more watchable film. That makes it subjective, not objective.

>>88112312
So you'd rather be remembered as that fat kid in the back of the class wearing a minecraft T-shirt, going on about memes and atheism, while asking why nobody wants to hang out with them while calling them sheeple and plebs unironically?

Sounds about right.

>>88112366
Nah, OP said right on the beggining that he hated it.

>>88112400
Looks like a videogame.

Hell, Doomsday is a shitty vilain, the least that they should have done is given him a memmorable design.

>>88112189
>They do show it
Not on 4chan. I've yet to see any legitimate criticisms.

>then you go "you're lying/memeing"

Then don't lie or meme? Just be honest. Fact is, the "arguments" against this movie don't hold any real weight and have all been debunked. It's only by making this weird strawman that people try to argue.

>>88112334
Why would he believe that his blood could control Doomsday when we're supposed to believe that he's a genius?

I'm probably not even above average IQ and even I can tell that that's retarded.

>>88112348
>pseudo intelectual garbage
Pseudo intellectual how?

>>88112468
>I'm probably not even above average IQ
Obviously not or you would have liked BvS. Same with the rest of the people in your group.

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PEOPLE

HATE

WHAT

THEY

DON'T

UNDERSTAND

>>88112484
Haha

You realize his complaint is entirely applicable, right?

>>88112484
ROASTED

>>88112348
>>88112364
>retards trying to make false assertions

Keep on being delusional. You know the DCEU is far superior. Keep crying though, it won't change a thing. The MCU is trash and forgettable. The DCEU will be remembered forever because of how good it is.

>>88112445
>I've yet to see any legitimate criticisms.
You're in denial. There's been plenty of legitimate criticisms. You just use your selective blinders and mental gymnastics to pretend like they don't have "any real weight" and are "debunked".

>>88112484
>>88112505
You're kinda missing the point there chief.

I'm not even above average IQ, yet even I know that just because something has your DNA inside of it, it doesn't mean that you're going to be able to control it.

>>88112484
Not an argument.

Tell us Lex reasoning and how it makes sense and shows that he isnt randomly insane.

>>88112500
If people didn't understand why they hate Snyderverse then they wouldn't be able to explain why they hate it every other thread.

>>88112473

Symbolism replacing characterisation or plot. Snyder has no idea how to write people, so he just staples in famous imagery to replace character and thinks that will compensate.

It's no different from the Matrix sequels, and despite what the fanboys of those movies think there's been no major re-apprasial of those films either, they're still considered garbage.

>>88112551
They aren't though. They throw out their shitty pleb complaints that have already been refuted countless times, and then post a laughing Chris Evans.

There are hundreds of essays that explain why BvS and MoS are so goddamn good, and the only reply you guys have is "MUH MARTHA" or "MUH PISS."

People hate what they don't understand.

>>88112517
>MCU is trash and forgettable
>Gets praise and recognition throughout and is even being nominated for Critics Choice Awards.

>>88105514
Watching MoS one time was one of my most painful movie watching experiences.

>>88112573
>There are hundreds of essays that explain why BvS and MoS are so goddamn good
Such as?

>>88112468
Because by that point he's gone entirely unhinged, and thinks the blood of his blood will do his bidding. It isn't suppose to be rational, he's so far gone and full of himself he thinks it will work. Which is entirely in character for Lex, he loses perspective and reason when it comes to killing Superman.

>>88112522
>There's been plenty of legitimate criticisms.
Then why can't you post any? Afraid that you've already been beaten? You know there's nothing left that hasn't been debunked so you don't have anything more to contribute.

>pretend like they don't have "any real weight" and are "debunked".
Go ahead and post one that hasn't been annihilated multiple times on here. It's always the same simplification arguments "haha same name" or "Lex confused me :(" or "not muh." If you're so sure of yourself, why not post something real, out of honesty and not malice? The dishonesty here has been very annoying.

>>88112599
http://imgur.com/gallery/sT40s

>>88112357
so fucking what, he's a stupid meat head monster. He does not require a full movie for himself.

>>88112602
>Because by that point he's gone entirely unhinged, and thinks the blood of his blood will do his bidding.
He must not be that smart then.

>>88112631
Like Bruce, he's intelligent and psychotic.

>>88112573

>MoS

MoS is structurally broken and has the most worthless MacGuffin in cinema history.

The idea of anyone defending MoS on a writing level is insane. The best thing you can say about it is individual scenes work out of context.

>>88112602

> Which is entirely in character for Lex, he loses perspective and reason when it comes to killing Superman.

Despite spending over a year planning a meticulous Death Note-tier revenge scheme with constant moving parts that would literally fall about if every aspect wasn't planned out perfectly.

>>88112620
>so fucking what, he's a stupid meat head monster. He does not require a full movie for himself.
It worked for MoS.

>>88112618
People will just use the meme argument "if you defend things with essays that means it's bad"

I never understood that argument, even in a fallacious way. How does it make any sense at all?

>>88112610
>Take my bait! Take it take it take it!
Here's an argument. I don't care. Not about a single character. Let Zod win. Let Lex win. Let Doomsday kill everyone. None of he characters are even remotely likable or even particularly interesting. At best, they're sometimes pitiable. Snyder didn't even attempt to avoid darkness induced audience apathy, because he got his cool moments of smashing action figures together. There are no emotional stakes in the fight at all, or even in Superman's death, not when we already know he's coming back going into the movie and they didn't bother to make us miss him if he's temporarily gone.

Now's the part where you accuse me of autism or of being a sociopath and assume that's "annihilating" my argument.

>>88112645
Bruce isn't the one mailing piss to senators and making doomsday monsters with his blood though.

Lex seems like someone who THINKS that he's intelligent, rather than actually being intelligent.

>>88112664
Because they're plebians who only watch shitty blockbusters, so they idea of a movie requiring some thought and analysis to thoroughly understand is inconceivable to them.

>>88112646
>MoS is structurally broken
Prove it.

>The idea of anyone defending MoS on a writing level is insane.
Go ahead and show what's wrong with it then.

>with constant moving parts that would literally fall about if every aspect wasn't planned out perfectly.
No, he formulated his plan based on events. He had a general plan, but it had to change every time something new happened. He wouldn't have bombed the senate if Finch had said "okay" for example. Is it really that hard for you to see?

>>88112689
No, Bruce was busy engineering suicide by Superman because he was suffering from PTSD and survivor's guild now that he was older than his dead patents yet felt he had no accomplished anything permanent even after years of being Batman.

>>88112697
>He wouldn't have bombed the senate if Finch had said "okay" for example.
I thought he bombed the senate to discredit Superman and not let him defend himself. Which is it?

>>88112646

Did his plans come to fruition? No, because he lost it at the end and no longer could contain his hatered. Classic Lex,

>>88112602
>Because by that point he's gone entirely unhinged, and thinks the blood of his blood will do his bidding.

So he is insane, in the sense that he does things that are stupid and almost random?

>Which is entirely in character for Lex,

Not it isnt.

Show me a modern interpretation of Lex that does something like this - give his blood to a random machine in the hopes that somehow this thing will obey him.

Even with the Conner clone thing, Lex had plenty of ways to control him. Here is just random, schizofrenic logic.

>Then why can't you post any?
>Bruce should have investigated Supes, if he and Lex want to kill Superman, discovering his identity or information about him is primordial. Lex managed to do this, so why not Bruce?
>Why Luthor used a bomb to explode the congress, that was easily conected to him, that would make him go to jail anyway at the end?
>Why he made Doomsday, if he had no way to control him? Is he completely insane?
>Why Superman has halucinations with his dead father? Is he retarded?
>Why you kill the main hero of your universe on the second movie, when he barely had any characterization?
>Why you think it is a good idea to make a MC with almost no agency?
>Why Superman didnt shouted to Batman that his mother was kidnapped?
>Why Batman think that WW is with Superman, if he knows her identity and is actually the only one that talked to her?
>Why kill off Clark Kent, the human aspect of Superman?
>Did they expected anyone that doesnt read comics to know what the hell was happening on the Knightmare sequence?
>Why not use the credits to show the JL members, instead of akwardly shoving them in the middle of a dramatic scene?
>Why this movie sells less than Deadpool?

>>88112719
But I thought he wanted to prove the god could bleed, not commit assisted suicide. Which is it?

Why did they make the Flash's message from the future a dream? Did they think adding time travel to the story that couldn't be dismissed as a dream was jumping the shark or something? It obviously wasn't just a dream but it's hard to explain how the dream and future Flash relate.

>>88112739
False dichotomy

>>88112618
>Superman is in a completely different world than where we last saw him in "Man of Steel." He is hated or least disliked by most everyone in Metropolis and the rest of world. In fact, the only time we really see him being accepted by someone other than Lois is when he goes to Mexico and saves a woman from a burning building during a celebration of the Day of the Dead. It is not by accident that the people depicted in this scene are dressed as the dead. It is almost as if to say that the only people who could really know and appreciate his intentions and desires to save the people of the world are those who have passed away. The dead know that the destruction of Metropolis and the thousands of deaths caused were not really his fault. He is the hero that the people need, but not the one they deserve.


hahaha
fucking hell

>>88112739
Lex just took the opportunity to kill two birds with one piss jar and bomb.

>>88112767
Part of the religious symbolism. In the Bible, angels appear to men, and often the men initially believe they're dreaming. The Flash is an angel of sorts, warning Bruce - who embodies humanity in the story - of the coming dangers.

>>88112770
That term isn't applicable to my question at all.

>>88112664
>>88112694
Okay, I've literally written a research paper on how the Room represents the white collar american's plight as they struggle to attain the american dream.

If you're willing to dig deep enough for an explanation, you can make anything sound thought provoking and deep, the only difference is that I knew what I was writing was bullshit.

>>88112804
>Which is it?

It's both. False dichotomy.

>>88112671
>Here's an argument. I don't care.
We'll see ya then. If you don't care that's your own fault. Go somewhere else. If you weren't going to care in the first place then nothing would change that.

>None of he characters are even remotely likable or even particularly interesting.
Again, your own fault.

Instead of complaining about your inability to care about anything, how about giving examples of things that do make you care about them (if they even exist)?

>There are no emotional stakes in the fight at all
Of course there are. Both in the Batman-Superman fight and the fight with Doomsday. You just CHOSE not to accept it. You won't feel anything if you don't want to. If you go in trying to hate something then nothing it does will change your mind.

>not when we already know he's coming back going into the movie
How does this affect the sacrifice? It doesn't negate the suffering he had to go through, and in-universe NO ONE knows he's coming back.

>Now's the part where you accuse me of autism or of being a sociopath
Maybe you are? Ever consider that? Lack of emotions, and all.

>>88112821
Funny thing is that people can easily do the same with Marvel movies, and make a over analization them on the same way.