https://youtu.be/wyv0ZlW0yS0 >Introduces a character's

>>88056662
Who knew Dwayne could sing.

>>88056662
But PatF's somgs wee really weak. Not catchy at all.

>inb4 muh FOTOS
Carried entirely by Keith David's performance. The melody and lyrics were trash.

>>88056662
Storytelling through song is lazy. It undercuts all subtlety and nuance in a performace by replacing it with epic jingles. Fuck that.

>>88057102
>what is a musical
If you want subtlety look somewhere else retard.
>>88056662
Where you are is better tbqh.

>>88056699
Anyone who watched WWE

>>88057239
>Where you are is better tbqh
I agree. "In time you'll learn just as I did, you must find happiness where you are" becomes a strong line when you find out her dads backstory.

>>88057239
>what is a musical
Something that belongs in the trash.

>>88056662
Better than let it go, at least

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>>88057295
You seem fun.

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>>88056662
While on the subject of the musical numbers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQzAi-a9Bv8

>Rhymes glitters with glitters

>>88057418
Do not question the giant David Bowie Crab.

Lin-Manuel Miranda is a very ok songwriter

>>88057488
I don't question him, I question whoever wrote the song. They could have easily replaced the second 'glitter' with 'shimmer' or 'glimmer' or 'flicker'

>>88056699
The Rock singing was one of his big WWE gimmicks. Hell, Miranda went back through all the tapes of those matches to get a good feel for Johnson's range.
>>88057418
Honestly, I feel like that bit rubs it in that Tamatoa's incredibly vain but very shallow. Even if it wasn't intentional, it works for the character.

>>88056662
So where does this fit into the movie?

Is this the Moana equivalent to Frozen's ice-cutting song?

>>88057418
As much as I love the song itself, did anyone find the scene to be pretty meh? It's basically a giant crab walking back and forth with some disco lightning.

>>88057622
It's a modern day equivalent of "Gaston" song.

>>88057418
Doesn't he rhyme the first one with "beginners" and the second one with "fish dinners"?

>>88057622
It's "Friend Like Me" only they aren't friends

>>88057746
yeah it's basically Maui showing off like Genie does. Except instead of doing it to convince Aladdin to let him help, Maui is doing it to distract Moana and ditch her to not help

>>88057666

shut up, satan.

cgi works that way.

>>88057778

shiny's second part is basical prince ali's reprise by jafar.

>>88057848
And "How far I'll go" is "Go The Distance". Ron and Jon know what types of songs work in their movies and it shows.

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>>88057666
That whole trip had potential. I was hoping for all those monsters we saw in the beginning. Instead we just got a semi-normal giant crab that sings.

When the black light comes on and we get the face paint though... thing's picked up for me.

>>88057418
This song is simultaneously on my top 5 most catchy Disney songs of all time AND on my top 5 list of worst lyrics in a Disney song. I love listening to this song, but the lyrics are bad.

>>88057884
While we are at it. "Where you are" is "Under the Sea"

>>88057891
>>88057891
Such as? We got three things, the coconuts, the crab and lavamom. What else would you want without making it feel overstuffed?

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>>88057957
>>88057884

mini maui

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>>88057995
Isn't this also Mini Maui, like in regards to the song

"We know the way" is the world building just like "Frozen Heart" and "Circle of life".

>>88057666
If you noticed, the discolighting was reflecting off of his shell, which meant that however he moved, the lights moved
Which is impressive in that sense

Anyone not like the lava monster twist and the green giant lady? I wanted more Tamatoa

you forgot
>music co-created by the Hamilton guy

>>88057044
I think you gotta dig a little deeper to find out just how much of a faggot you are on the inside.

>>88058572
Wrote one song and not this one.

>>88058764
That's incorrect. He wrote or co-wrote all of the ones in English.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3521164/soundtrack

>>88058359
Fun fact, "We Know the Way" used to be at the beginning of the film just like "Frozen Heart" and "Circle of Life".

>Musker: The song “We Know the Way” used to come at the beginning of the movie. That was sort of the prologue of the movie to set up the whole voyaging thing. I think it was John Lasseter’s idea where he’s like, “I want to see this movie through the eyes of the protagonist.” He suggested we should move that later and discover that with her, so it puts you in her head. That’s his mantra through a lot of these movies is see as much of the movie as you can through the eyes of the protagonist.

>http://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/moana/260177/moana-directors-talk-the-films-influences-and-fun-references

>>88058357
I think he meant in the movie over all.

>>88058764
He wrote all of them

>>88058809
Ohh, whoops. I was misinformed. Nevermind.

>>88057295
Wow, I didn't realize /co/ was too good for musicals. I'd expect that from /tv/ and /mu/ but come on.

>>88059118
/co/ is stealth /th/ sometimes, that anon doesn't speak for us

>>88057044
ARE YOU REAAAAAAAAAAADY?

>>88060935
Hey, the only memorable lyric in the entire movie

>>88056699
He's not a natural singer, but he clearly had some good training. I've trained people to sing for years, some people are totally beyond help, but you can bring out some really impressive stuff from people who've never sung a note in their lives.

>>88061324
TRANSFORMATION CENTRAL!

>>88057102
>Storytelling through song is lazy.

Storytelling is what songs were created for.

>>88057102
Storytelling through action is lazy. It undercuts all subtlety and nuance in a performace by replacing it with epic explosions. Fuck that.

>>88056662
So how is the movie really? I want to see it but didn't realize it came out until today.

Seems like a lot of people really like it? What exactly makes it so special compared to other disney cgi films? Looks like its floating around 98 on rt

>>88062995
Lot of people like/buy/watch disney movies because they are disney movies

>>88062995
The music is the best it's been since the Renaissance, the characters are likable, no sassy sidekick, Moana is cute, no romance

>>88062995
>Seems like a lot of people really like it? What exactly makes it so special compared to other disney cgi films? Looks like its floating around 98 on rt
It's "Disney formula", but it's probably the best-refined iteration of that formula in recent history. I think it's probably the best of the princess films, maybe after Beauty and the Beast.

>That Godzilla cameo

>>88057102
This. Music is the lowest form of communication.

>>88064484
Pretty sure drawing pictures in the dirt with your finger is the lowest form of communication

>>88064465
A redditor claiming to be a Disney animator said it was a Disney easter egg. I think it might be Marshmallow's spikes.

>>88064779
Tell us how you really feel.

>>88064779
OP here, the film wasn't that great in my opinion. You're Welcome was an outlier which I happen to think is one of the better recent Disney efforts.
Like >>88064874 said, tell us how you feel.

>>88058555
>tfw we'll never know what the big spiky undersea kaiju was

Where can I watch it online?

Why is Moana so hot?

>>88066387
s/Moana/Sina/

>>88063255
>no romance
I'm in.

>>88056662

Maui looks so fucking weird, like an inflatable toy.

And why doesn't he have nipples? Are we censoring male nips now?

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Saw this on twitter.

>>88066599
>And why doesn't he have nipples?
He does.

I keep trying to imagine a /pol/ version where the US is saying you're welcome to a small island nation for all it's done around the world.
"Who's got two thumbs and pushed back the Reich; when you were walking yea hight: This guy!"

>>88066907
You realize that by doing this the implication would be that the west has done more than necessary and fucked up the world single handedly. Since that's basically Maui's storyline.

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>>88066959

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CONSIDER
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVzDrqOmYiY

>>88066998
I spent hours shitposting on /pol/ last night so I can never tell anymore

>>88056699
>Who knew Dwayne could sing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRL_vcfI020

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>>88066907
>>88066959
Interesting, could have potential assuming you can change the lyrics just right to fit that new narrative.

>>88067051
>>88067254

>Oh, Also I fought back Nippon, your welcome
>I dropped on them a real big bomb!
>Also I print your currency, your welcome!
>So you can buy the things you need!
>So what can I say except 'Your welcome!'
>For the pirates I kill on the sea!
>Theres no need to pay, it's okay, you're welcome!
>It's just my way of spreading democracy!
>You're Welcome!

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>>88067491
Now I'm imagining a 400 pound american singing this to a samoan.

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>still no camrip

>>88067892
>Yes it's really me, the US, drink it in!
>I know it's a lot, the guns, the econ
>When you're staring at a superpo'r!
Needs a better rhyme

>>88062995
It's worth it for the visuals alone. Seriously it has gorgeous animation even if you're a fag about 3D, it's probably one of the best looking movies I've ever seen. There are very few boring shots and it reminded me a lot of playing the Wind Waker.
>>88067943
Don't be like this guy.

Songs are nice and catchy, Moana is surprisingly really cute ( I genuinely wasn't expecting it, I think it's due to the voice actress ) and has nice humour without being forced. The Rock is a pretty solid voice actor and singer too. It's the Disney formula at its best.

Story doesn't hold that well in the second half and unlike Frozen it doesn't have the marketability to hide it, that's probably the worst I can say about it.

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>>88057102
>Jasmine / Moana : lives a comfortable life with an unusual animal as a pet (Raja the tiger/ that pig in Moana); daughter of a sultan/chief butting heads with her father over her future

>lamp / stone : some ancient artifact represents something of immense power

>The Genie / Maui : wacky comic relief, shape shifting qualities, each get a song introducing them about how awesome they think they are

>the magic carpet / the ocean: 2 inanimate things that the movie personifies with silent body language & human-like movements

>Abu / The chicken : the wacky animal sidekick that only squeals and does not talk

>same directors as Aladdin

Bravo Disney.

>>88064484

Nah, I'm pretty sure Social Media has taken that title by force.

>>88068659
The plot is different though. Moana doesn't have any romance (a big part of Aladdin) or any equivalent character to Aladdin.

>>88057586
The original was much better. I'm guessing corporate didn't like the song so they forced a quick rewrite.
https://youtu.be/DnOUgFjs9sg

>>88068659
Jasmine is nothing like Moana imo. Moana was ready to be there for her people and actually feels guilty about having selfish desires clouding her interest in her responsibilities to her society. The only reason she commits to leaving is because it's the only option left to saving her island nation. Jasmine on the other hand was extremely spoiled and whiny even though she's never worked a day in her life, and didn't really give a shit about making her society a better place.

Moana is more comparable to Mulan than any other princess. They both want to be good daughters, both have loving (and living) parents and a quirky grandma, both only end up leaving as a way to protect their families/homeland. Moana's narrative is a little better though because it didn't push "muh patriarchy! muh gender roles!" down your throat.

>>88069324
Jasmine was just generically kind. She was too stupid and uninformed to help her people in any meaningful way but she gave that kid an apple she stole off the cart.
Mulan only goes to save her father and her family's honor. She doesn't really give a shit about China and might even hate it considering how much she doesn't fit into the traditional role.
Moana is actually kind and cares about her people in a smart way and wants to and works to improve their lives. She also cares about her role as chieftain and likes her place in society. Moana is a very unique princess imo because she doesn't hate where she is she just wants to improve it.

>>88069188
this is such a perfect impression of Bowie

>>88069324
>push "muh patriarchy! muh gender roles!" down your throat
Oh lord. Heaven forbid a woman who had a prescribed role because of her gender not like that. How terrible that they didn't depict ancient China as the egalitarian utopia that we all know it was.

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>>88066907
>>88067892
>>88068041
So what can I say except "You're welcome"
For freedom, justice, and fries
Hey, it's okay, it's okay, you're welcome
I'm just a humble slice of apple pie

Are we all agreed that "Shiny" was the best song?

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>>88057995
http://www.cinemablend.com/news/1587820/moana-originally-focused-on-the-rocks-character-heres-why-disney-changed-it

There was the first version of the story, before we went to the islands and that was John's idea, I think, and it was inspired just by wanting to do a film in that part of the world, which he didn't know that much about, and I didn't know that much about. He read a lot of the mythology and Maui really comes out of that as this wonderful character. He's a demi-god, a shape-shifter and with this magical fishing hook he could pull up islands. So our very first version of the story, our sort of title for it was Mighty Maui, and it was a Maui-centric story, based on two or three Maui myths that we just kind of mashed together.


Ron Clements and John Musker pitched the idea to executive producer John Lasseter. And while he liked the idea from the start, he felt that it was important that the two filmmakers take a journey to some Pacific Island locations and really figure out what the history and mythology was all about.


We kind of maybe had a more stereotypical view, and really didn't know that much - and our views changed dramatically coming out of that trip. We learned so much about navigation and the history of navigation, which was not a part of the story. People's connection to the ocean... they talked about the ocean like it was alive, which was not a part of the story. The respect for nature and the connection to the past... And so, after that trip, when we came back, we kind of threw out that first version of the story.

>>88069783
I can't even pick a best. I've been listening to "Where You Are" the most. And "You're Welcome" is fun. They're pretty much all either good or great.

>>88069783
Nah. Where we are is best song.

>>88069783
they're all the best

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>>88056662

This sounds mediocre. Is it a /tv/ meme to pretend it's good or something?

>>88069784
I cant help but roll my eyes when people say Disney is trivializing peoples culture. These filmmakers go out of their way to study these things in depth.

>>88058357
>Aladdin is a 1992 American animated musical fantasy film produced by Walt Disney Feature Animation and released by Walt Disney Pictures. Aladdin is the 31st Disney animated feature film, and was part of the Disney film era known as the Disney Renaissance. The film was directed by John Musker and Ron Clements, and is based on the Arab-style folktale Aladdin and the Magic Lamp from One Thousand and One Nights.

>>88057957
>The Little Mermaid is a 1989 American animated musical fantasy film produced by Walt Disney Feature Animation and released by Walt Disney Pictures. Based on the Danish fairy tale of the same name by Hans Christian Andersen, The Little Mermaid tells the story of a beautiful mermaid princess who dreams of becoming human. Written, directed, and produced by Ron Clements and John Musker, with music by Alan Menken and Howard Ashman (who also served as a co-producer)

>>88069784
>Hercules is a 1997 American animated musical fantasy comedy film produced by Walt Disney Feature Animation and released by Walt Disney Pictures. The 35th Disney animated feature film, the film was directed by Ron Clements and John Musker.


>Moana is a 2016 American 3D computer-animated fantasy adventure film produced by Walt Disney Animation Studios and released by Walt Disney Pictures. It is the 56th Disney animated feature film. The film is directed by Ron Clements and John Musker,[8] and co-directed by Don Hall and Chris Williams

>>88058357
>>88057995
Songs are great ways to present a lot of character information real fast. It's more fun for Genie to explain his vast powers through song. Same with Maui's and Hercule's heroic feats.

>>88070055
If your point is that Musker and Clements are awesome then I agree.

>>88057666
That was my favorite scene. The rest of the movie was predictable and kinda boring. Pretty, but kinda just okay.

>>88070055
Reading this just confirms that Aladdin could never be released in the present time without backlash out the fucking asshole.

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>>88070291

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>>88070055
>After directing The Princess and the Frog (2009), Clements and Musker started working on an adaptation of Terry Pratchett's Mort,[18] but problems with acquiring the necessary film rights prevented them from continuing with that project. To avoid a recurrence of that issue, they pitched three original ideas.[19] In 2011, Musker began reading Polynesian mythology in which he read about the heroic exploits of the demigod Maui. Intrigued with the rich culture, he felt it would be suitable for an animated film. Shortly after, Musker and Clements wrote a treatment and pitched it to John Lasseter, who recommended that both of them should go on research trips.[20][21] Accordingly, in 2012, Clements and Musker went on research trips to Fiji, Samoa, and Tahiti to meet the people of the South Pacific and learn about their culture.[8]
>Aulani, a Disney Resort & Spa is a beachside hotel, resort and vacation destination offering complimentary children's activities and programs at the Ko Olina Resort & Marina in Kapolei on the Hawaiian island of Oahu. Part of the Disney Vacation Club, it is the third Disney Vacation Club Resort located outside of a Disney theme park property. The resort opened on August 29, 2011.

>>88069933

ffacewebsite.com/photo.php?fbid=10154773918108156&set=a.86638513155.105015.767948155&type=3&theater

The highly anticipated multi-cinema night-time opening of Moana sees audiences flock to Regal Dole Cannery Theater in Honolulu.

Standing in the popcorn line, we are immediately surprised by an Indigenous in Indigenous-Face, as a young brown man (most likely Hawaiian) decked out in full brown flesh bodysuit (resembling Maui the demi-god) walks past. Though it caused an online furore after Disney released this merchandise, witnessing one of your own actually buying into this caricature feels like a betrayal. It evokes the uncomfortability of a Native American wearing a Redskins t shirt.

Isn’t there a name of a syndrome where the victims of kidnapping eventually empathise with the people who hold them hostage?

Before we even step into the theater, this provocation provides the fork in the road for this controversial movie that weathered its fair share of critique and debate in the lead up.

There are two basic camps; those who don’t regard the implications of the Disney machine telling Pacific stories as important - maybe even alluding that we as Pacific Islanders should be grateful, reverting to the mantra “its just a film!” For others, this film highlights all that is problematic in global pop culture misrepresenting an entire continent, with its Americanized generic approach and delivery of the Pacific Islands with a Disney twist.

>>88057102
Yeah talking normally is a lot easier than singing. That's why people learned how to do musical numbers before they learned how to speak.

Birds communicate through singing, birds are fucking retarded, therefore singing is fucking retarded and music is a trash medium. They should just use abstract shapes and noises to let the audience come up with their own plot progression and be free from this opressive medium..

>>88070508
But they've planned a live-action adaptation, haven't they?

Marry, Fuck, Kill:
>Maui, Chief Tui, Sina (the mom), Gramma Tala, Te Fiti (with heart)

You get one marry and one fuck. The rest die.

>>88072097
I hope whatever freak wrote this dies in considerable agony.

>>88056699
You are very underage. It Doesn't Matter was the shit back then.

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>>88072097


“In the Beginning..”

My friends and I mockingly laughed, as this overtly parodic line uttered in an overly annuciated way with a freakish omnipotent sounding voice, echoed this year’s opening ceremony at Festpac 2016 in Guåhan.

Why is it that Pacific Islanders/Native/Indigenous people always have to start “In the Beginning”? Do other white presenting Disney characters have to outlay their genealogical origins ever? Nope, they usually just exist “Long Long Ago, in a Place Far Far Away”.

This announcement then means thousands of years of history are reduced to a mini movie trailer of a savage past, whizzed over faster than a speedy pecha kucha. It annoys me because it says ‘lets catch the whiteys up on how brown people ended up being the center of this movie, nuff said - lets proceed!”

Strangely though, we still don't really know when and where we are, as this is a fictitious island with fictitious characters and events trying to come off as interconnected. It is a lie.

The movie hangs its Pacific credibility on Maui the demi-god, who inspired many a blog post rant over the past years. He has a magic hook (tick) and slows the sun (tick) but then it starts to get dicey as we discover he has stolen the heart of Te Fiti (who?) and turned that deity into a lava witch named Te Kā (um, no). These additions are about as plausible as re-inventing that Jesus also rode a magical unicorn.

Be kind I thought, this is really just the first 30 seconds of a two hour brain drain, let us be open. Whats good whats good, I ponder?

>>88072380
Is this thing a tranny? It writes like one.

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>>88072380

Then theres a scary Granny, who surfaces a few times in the opening moments and calls herself “the village crazy lady”. Of course being spiritual, connected to the animals of the ocean and speaking to ancestors qualifies one as “crazy” (wink wink). Yes, we Polynesians thought of our sacred ancestral connections as that. Believe in many gods? What is this madness?!

They start singing, I try and decipher the language. I cant.

So I do a call and response along with the soundtrack, and not even exaggerating, I swear it was something like “Aue, aue, lalalala, palalala”. I was thinking about how none of the words used the famous Polynesian FAKA/VAKA/WHAKA sounds at all. Somehow, they had cleverly removed the most intrinsic of linking words, and not surprisingly because it just so happens to sound offensive to Western ears who think we are saying something else.

I watch the dancing scene very closely, like a hawk. Anytime I get close towards figuring out what culture the dance movement being shown comes from, it morphs. I see Samoan, Maori, Hawaiian, Tahitian, Fijian, Tongan and even South East Asian movements being mutilated and resewn together as a PolyDisney style. From the slap dance, to the swaying hips, the footwork to the tilt of the head, I am overwhelmed by this gobbledy-gook.

As the movie wears on, there is some visual beauty, the romantic sunsets, the magical ocean that reacts, responds and communes with Moana, the chosen one, is also enticing and surreal. But I am not readily seduced.

In many respects, I think they would have been better off just choosing an island and sticking with it. Then they could use a specific language, dance, customs, inflections, names - everything, the essence of a culture. But instead its Disney doing what they do best. Misappropriating with a Moral.

>>88072475
You write like the coolest kid ever.

>>88069699
You don't get it. Mulan pushed a very westernized view of gender roles onto the Chinese culture in Mulan. It's really patronizing. It's one thing to be historically accurate about it, but Mulan was not on top of being preachy about it. They did it with Pocahontas and Aladdin too. It's pseudo girl power bs. Also a ton of Chinese people think Mulan was too Americanized, despite enjoying it for what it is.

>>88072297
and there was a Broadway musical adaptation last year that everyone loved

>>88072380
>Why is it that Pacific Islanders/Native/Indigenous people always have to start “In the Beginning”? Do other white presenting Disney characters have to outlay their genealogical origins ever? Nope, they usually just exist “Long Long Ago, in a Place Far Far Away”.
>
>This announcement then means thousands of years of history are reduced to a mini movie trailer of a savage past, whizzed over faster than a speedy pecha kucha. It annoys me because it says ‘lets catch the whiteys up on how brown people ended up being the center of this movie, nuff said - lets proceed!”

Well, yea. Cultures are heavily influenced by their creation myths, and most people arent familiar with pagan traditions.

>>88072513
>I think they would have been better off just choosing an island and sticking with it. Then they could use a specific language, dance, customs, inflections, names - everything, the essence of a culture.
I think that's a good idea. It wouldn't lose any of the Polynesian flavor by mostly sticking with one group of people. It'd have the same feel for the average American, like me, who can't tell the difference between the different Polynesian groups. And it'd make it more authentic for those who care about that.

Sure some of it should be made up. We don't know everything about what the culture would be like centuries ago, but it'd be neat to pick a specific region and extrapolate from there. It'd still be a fictional tribe/island, but it would be a more grounded fiction.

>>88072513
If this story takes place in ancient, mythological history, it stands that these guys are the common ancestor of all the polynesian cultures. It's like griping that Latin isn't spanish or french or portugese, but some gobbley gook of them all.

This person's a twat, and even if we gave them everything they asked, they'd still complain for some reason

>>88057418
When you are channeling David Bowie from the grave, you can rhyme anything with itself whenever you fucking want.

>>88072380
>spoils the central twist by conflating a later reveal with the intro
nice review

>>88072513
I am 99% sure We Know the Way was a Hawaiian guy singing in Hawaiian

>>88069188
This is better! Why the fuck would they make it less Bowie? You never go less Bowie!

>>88072873
At least some of the songs had a blend of languages.
>For much of the choral music of the score, “I used the language of Samoa, Tokelau and Tuvalu. I’m very biased toward the Pacific languages,” he adds with a laugh. “Whenever there’s a gap I put them in. I leave the awesome English lyrics to Lin.”
>http://variety.com/2016/film/spotlight/lin-manuel-miranda-disney-moana-1201909204/

I don't know about We Know the Way specifically.

>see gifs and clips that are clearly from a camrip
>search for the camrip
>cannot find camrip

I feel like all my decades on the internet have failed me.

>>88072380
>I am upset they ruined my myth

Hey faggot welcome to Disney. Let me give you an example of Disney twisting an existing story into a modern take that will get them money, the list is called The Entire Disney Animated Feature List.

>>88072966
>>see gifs and clips that are clearly from a camrip
Can you point to one? I remember one comment mentioned that a seemingly cam-sourced gif was actually from a trailer and it was just darkened because someone removed the text from it.

>>88073074
>Myths changes over time

Shocking I know. Disney is just another link in that chain.

>>88070055
http://supergeekmike.com/2014/06/04/frozen-soundtrack-disney-songs-ripped-off/

Does anyone know if Moana was rendered in 4K or if it ever will be? Disney must be thinking about future-proofing their movies, right? I hope so. I hope they'll re-render as many movies as they're able in like 8K and hold on to them for future releases. I don't know if that's technically feasible for their older CG movies.

>>88073085
They're on tumblr and I saw one on youtube before it was taken down, and as much as I search torrents, I can't goddamn find this rip.

>>88072966
I'm happy about it because I want Moana to make all the money it deserves for as long as possible.

>>88073432
Well, me too, but I already saw it once.

>>88072966
Myths change over time, but there's nothing wrong with being critical of it. Although being overly whiny isn't necessary either.

That said I still hate Pocahontas narratively speaking. I like it as a film but thinking too deeply about its cultural impact still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Moana on the other hand was respectful with its artistic liberties, and also had the benefit of not being based on real people.

>>88073432
What about people in other countries? I already saw it, but IMDB says that Japan doesn't get it until March, which is insane. And a handful of other countries also don't get it until 2017.

>>88073494
But other people who haven't seen it still have to pay.

>>88073571
Yeah that I don't get. Why is Disney doing this? Are they self sabotaging? This movie would be printing money by now if it had been released internationally from the start.

>>88057102
>he doesn't know about hamilton

>>88073633
If anything, having listened to the songs in Moana, I now think Hamilton is overrated. Not impressed with the guy's lyrics at all.

>>88073546
It's just the whole "You misrepresented this tiny part of a myth of my ethnicity! For shame!" when I actually think this film is very respectful. In fact, Disney has done a pretty good job with Polynesian movies. Even before the "fuck white people appropriation" bullshit, we had Lilo who was a fucking troll to all the white tourists who visited Hawaii (even though the scene of her doing that was deleted).

I'm not giving Disney a pass or anything, but it's fucking Disney. They shit all over their own IPs anyway. They shat all over their original take on Jungle Book to make it even less like Rudyard Kipling's book. There was a giant monkey in it for some reason.

Disney wants money above all else, so if they have to make Maui an insufferable fat stereotype, then they will because he will sell insufferable fat stereotype toys to insufferable fat children and their parents.

>>88073618
It could be a time issue. The english stuff is done now, and they want to get it out, but localization take time. If they waited, they couldn't hit the US holiday season

>>88073633
Hamilton was a jerk who wanted the president to be just an elected king. Fuck him.

>>88057102
>Storytelling through song is lazy
U wot, bro?

Get some taste.

>>88073683
>an insufferable fat stereotype
Confirmed for not watching the movie

>>88073687
It should have been a spring or summer movie. Why the rush? I would have been fine waiting a few more months and it probably would have done well as the first big Disney blockbuster of the year. People would be starving for happy escapism after 2016.

>>88073777
I don't know. I've stopped seriously guessing about corporate machinations.

>>88073760
Yeah, Maui wasn't even really fat. He was strongfat and very buff. There are no eating jokes or one off lines about his size either, unless you count "the bod".

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>>88073760
He the Polynesian stereotype

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>>88073546
It was cool seeing Taika Waititi, Rachel House, and Jemaine Clement together again in the credits. Plus the nameless fisherman (Oscar Kightley) was in "Hunt for the Wilderpeople" too. I'd be cool with Taika directing a WDAS film after he's done with Thor.

>>88073727
the musical's still pretty good

>>88073819

pretty much the only food joke He made was grabbing HeiHei, calling him a "boat snack!" and feeding him to fatten him up.

which happens all in the span of like, 10 minutes.

>>88073687
That's a good point. Disney dubs their movies in like 40+ languages. I can't imagine how hard it would be do properly translate and record all those songs in all those languages.

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>>88068659
> it's Aladdin except it doesn't have Aladdin

Something just came to mind: Spoilers of course.

Moana's a story about a guy, a really big jock. He steals some girl's heart, breaks it and turns her into this evil psycho bitch.

She lashes out at the world, wrecking everything she can, but deep inside she just wants her heart back.

Along comes this young, naive girl. She doesn't quite feel like she belongs, even though her parents are presuring her to be something she doesn't want to be. So she plays hooky and leaves home, finds the jock.

Together they find the evil, heartless bitch and Moana has a realization. She has to give the bitch her heart back. So she does and the bitch becomes happy again and Moana can finally be who she truly is.

She has taught the once-heartless-broken-hearted-bitch to love again.

This is yet another Disney movie promoting lesbianism.

>>88074122
I feel like it's kind of a stretch, but I'll always be down with lesbian subtext. Approved.

I don't like his singing and just fine the song serviceable.

And just for the record, the best song in a Disney film since Princess and the Frog is
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=109xEXkCW7c

>>88074220
>not "Ain't No Mountain High Enough"
He doesn't remember The Titans.

>>88073660
> he didn't listen to the hamilton OST

>>88074279
SINCE Princess and the Frog, anon

>>88074122
>be something she doesn't want to be
My one nitpick with your post is that she does want to be this. Her parents were just holding her back from fulfilling her role to the best of her ability because of their fear and not properly educating her about their people's history (it seemed implied that the dad was a jaded atheist too, so he felt telling her about destiny and stuff wasn't necessary).

>>88074294
I was just mentioning Remember the Titans because that's where I first heard the song and it worked well there. It was in Guardians of the Galaxy too.

>>88074288
Nope, and never will.

>>88073660
what didn't you like about it

>>88074367
I'm gonna be perfectly honest with you. I god damn hate Ain't No Mountain High Enough after it was in some commercial that was on ALL THE GOD DAMN TIME.

I didn't even like it that much before then, but that song can get fucked.

>>88074421
They didn't touch me.

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>>88074442
Where did Moana touch you?

Show me on the doll.

>>88074122
I've been listening to a mythology course online, and I think the heart has to do with the archetype of sacrifice.

When you sacrifice, you give up something of great value to god or to nature in order to gain it's favor. You give up something you cherish in order to prepare your future. It's a metaphor for delayed gratification. You give up your enjoyment today so that you can reap the benefits tomorrow.

What happens at the end of the movie, Moana gives up the heart, this valuable object that she's risked her life to protect. Its the most valuable thing she owes. But because she gave it up, she was able to let go, she was rewarded with a much greater prize; the life back to the ocean and her people.

Like how when you give up

>>88074483
OINK OINK

>>88074421
Also, I'm usually down for every single princess 'I want' song out there. "How Far I'll Go" just doesn't seem to have whatever LiG/FtFTiF/WWMLB/ISTL has. It didn't make me feel what I felt/still feel when I listen to those. No goosebumps, no tears, no elevated sense of...something.

>>88073618
This is normal practice among many movies, especially for releasing a movie months later in Japan after other countries.

Go on IMDB and look at the release schedules for some popular movies, including animated movies. You'll see it's pretty common.

>>88074814
I like "How Far I'll Go", but quite a few other songs in the movie overshadow it. And none of them compare to "Let it Go" for me. It also doesn't give me goosebumps with the exception of the end of "I Am Moana" when she yells out her name to the ocean. That part was pretty powerful for me.

>>88074483
For a second i thought that was fucking Squirt in the corner

>>88075016
I do like it, but only just. I actually prefer Try Everything for Disney song of the year.

I thought it was funny that the outtake "I want more" song was literally called "More". It reminded me of "Everything and More" from Twisted. A bit too on the nose.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmlfy2AzChw

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>Australian shitposters can watch movies before I can

>>88075109
I would have preferred that one.

>>88072696
Also worth pointing out that Hercules did that too.

It's almost as if stories involving Gods need to go back to the point in time when the Gods are doing stuff.

Would you a Sina?

Real talk. Would consider Moana the most beautiful CG film Disney or Pixar have ever done? Or even the most beautiful Disney film period?

>>88075598
Given the rate of technology, that's not a fair prize. It just gets better as the rendering software improves. What did you think of the art style specifically?

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>>88075673

>>88075598
Parts of it are individually beautiful, but a lot of the different parts didn't feel like they really jived together.

Ex. The 2D Animation in the "You're Welcome" song was really cool, but having the CG characters walking around in front of it made it seem way too much like one of those tacky Disney Channel or Nickelodeon ads with the live action kids with animated characters/backgrounds in the shot.

Ex. You have all this amazing photorealistic backgrounds and textures on these very caricatured models, and it ends up in a very uncanny valley place like Good Dinosaur did.

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>>88075704

Why did Maui come back?

>>88075984
I guess the stuff Moana said ("the hook doesn't make you Maui") got to him eventually. He echoed that back to her when he showed up.

>>88075984
It felt kind of cheap that he just reappeared at the climax.

But he did give his little tattoo guy a glance, so I guess the implication is that, like in the rest of the movie, it tried to act as his conscience and succeeded in convincing him to go back.

Figured out what bugs me about How Far I'll Go.

1. The lyrics feel clumsy.

> everybody on this island....happy on this this island....everybody on this island....role on this island...

all in the same stanza

>...edge of the water...the water...

two lines after another

>beyond that line....cross that line...

same damn line


2. It tries to start slow and goes fast but doesn't have that right crescendo feel.

3. It doesn't start low and then end high. It tries but the voice doesn't.


?

>>8807616
the repetition of island and line is deliberate to call attention to the repetitiveness of life on the island and the insistence of the call of the sea, respectively

and the water line isn't as repetitive as you're making it out to be
>I've been staring at the edge of the water
>Long as I can remember, never really knowing why
>I wish I could be the perfect daughter
>But I come back to the water, no matter how hard I try

>>88074814
How Far I'll Go isn't the final form of the song. It's like a part 1 to I Am Moana when she realizes what she felt was far away was within her all along, and the spirits of her ancestors lived in her. I think HWIG ended the way it did to purposefully leave you feeling like it isn't finished, because at this point in the story Moana isn't even fully sure what she wants.

>>88076533
But FtFTiF works all by itself without the reprise. So does WWMLB.

>>88076503
It looks ok on paper but hearing it is jarring. Same with the island.

Maybe that shit works on Broadway, I dunno. But it screws with my feel.

>>88076161
The sentences are supposed to flow into each other as run on statements that end and begin with the same words, reflecting the way Moana felt like she was walking in circles not really going anywhere with her life.

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>mfw people think that this movie promotes fat-shaming

>>88076586
it may just be that you're not used to this particular style of lyrics after the fairly straightforward songwriting of previous Disney movies

>>88076586
It sounded fine to me.

>>88057920
Overall the songs lyrics are pretty bad, but the point where he starts digging into Maui is great.

The song would have been better if it WAS more just a consistent attack on Mona and Maui.

Also the echoes that emphasizing of certain words with chorus should have been used more.

>>88076619
I'm not. Never encountered it anywhere else. Definitely don't like it. And from the looks of it, a lot of people are like me.

>>88071022
I still don't understand WHY they went with Mort for this.

Fucking The Wee Free Men is probably the one Terry Pratchett book designed to lend itself to a Disney movie.

And A Hat Full of Sky and Wintersmith are both good too, if a bit samey in their plot structure.

And they'd never really HAVE to adapt I Shall Wear Midnight. It's not like the stories they've adapted before didn't have teeth

>>88076698
a lot of people on /co/, anyway

>>88076555
Those songs served a different purpose than How Far I'll Go/Reprise/I Am Moana. Moana's I want song changed in meaning every time she sang it. First it was about feeling trapped, then it was about finally going out to see the world and pressing forward despite the circumstances, and the final piece when she has her epiphany. I really enjoyed it but I can see why it may not be everyone's cup of tea. Still, I liked the somewhat unorthodox take on the "I want" by having the character slowly bfigure out what it even is she wants.

>>88076717
Actually, from what I've seen, /co/ seems to like the song. I'm talking more about real world people.

It doesn't help either that the pop version is similarly-themed, (unlike LiG where there are people who prefer one or the other) and yet similarly-uninspiring.

>>88076796
Normies love the song bro

>>88076772
Well, it is whatever it is. Doesn't change how I feel about it. Definitely going to be one of those songs I skip a lot when it comes up randomly. I don't even feel the urge to learn it (which is totally different from the other, previously-mentioned songs).

>>88076824
Not here, they don't.

>>88076851
K

>Maui can do everything but float
heh

I understand the whole thing about fat stereotypes, but I still don't see how anyone with a basic knowledge of how bodies work would consider a stocky, muscled guy fat. He's weight-lifter buff with extra arm work. Not everyone's going to be covered in a 16-pack when they're jacked to shit.

>>88057666
Honestly it reminded me of the Hexus song from fern gully a bit. It was a song where a villain can give his villain monologue in the form of a song. I fucking loved the visuals though though, him going from shiny glam to neon rave was such a awesome color shift.

>>88076708
Probably because Death's such an important character and the idea of the grim reaper being a chill dude just appealed to people working at Disney.

I also remember a lot of people thinking Disney would merge it with Reaper Man and using New Death as a villain and Death of Rats as a comical animal sidekick.

>>88075187

Fuck off, it's usually almost always the other way around and America gets a movie months before we do.

>>88076945
Wait, didn't they get it on the 23rd?

>>88057418
I loved based crab styling on them while kicking their asses.

Flight of the Conchords animated movie when?

>>88072097

>Disney making cartoony parodies of European cultures for a century
>THERE ARENT ENOUGH PRINCESSES OF COLOR REE
>the princess and the frog
>UHHHHHHHHH WHO?
>Moana, which is not only gorgeous but really entertaining
>UGH I CANT STAND THIS MOCKERY OF OUR CULTURE

This is why PoC princesses are such a pain in the ass, were irish people bitching about brave?

>>88077117
everyone was bitching about Brave

also that was Scotland, not Ireland

>>88077117

They need their representation to be absolutely perfect and completely accurate at all times, no liberties or stylistic choices can be taken with their characters, even if it makes the characters work better in the movie or simply because they don't have time to explain everything, otherwise it's RAYCIST

>>88077154

Really? I legitimately missed that, could you share an article or something

>>88077117
Disney worked with quite a few Polynesian groups and artists and most Polynesian critics have responded positively to that. And people who disagree are going to either be in the minority or else they'll likely have a point (heaven forbid). Calm down. Stop looking for excuses to get mad.

>>88077186

I feel as if this actually happened, there would be someone complaining that disney PoCs are "handled with kiddy gloves out of fear of offending the minorities"

>>88077233
I just meant no one liked Brave as a movie, no idea if people objected to the depiction of Scootland

>>88075109
>>88075224
I feel like More and it's reprise don't work, because they're more blaming the island culture and society for why she wants to leave. How Far I'll Go is more...self-deprecating in that Moana is aware that she has this wonderful life, wonderful family, and that she should be happy with them. But she's not. And so there has to be something wrong with HER, since she's not satisfied. More works with princesses like Ariel or Jasmine, who were, naively, selfish and had those more restricting societies that wouldn't let her leave. Moana's life was restricted, yes, but she also had tons of freedom in every other aspect, as future chief. More and the reprise are great songs in their own right, and the reprise especially is really well written, but they don't mesh with Moana's personality and feelings toward her people in the final film.

>>88077239

I can't tell if you are saying calm down as a passive aggressive jab or if you think I'm furiously clacking away at my keyboard

my friend I am eating dubba bubba and listening to dwayne's lovely voice, there is no room for anger.

>>88077117
Brave sucked for so many reasons. One of which being Brenda Chapman, the woman who conceptualized Brave (originally called The Bear and the Bow), noted for directing The Prince of Egypt, was booted from directing her own movie based on a relationship between her and her daughter. It was going to have a much richer story than I ended up having, and the fact that it "won" best animated feature at the Oscars only made people dislike it more. That movie was not a good look for Disney at all and everyone knows it.

I like Brave though. Even though it sucks.

>>88077265
I think More was written for a different story. You can tell that the reprise was sung after he grandma dies.

I feel that like Frozen/Zootopia, there's a previous Moana story that was simplified into what we got.

>>88077117

> Princess and the frog happens
> This movie doesn't count because the MC spends most of the movie as a frog!! Disney is too scared to make a PoC MC without her being transformed for the whole movie!
> Mulan
> Pochahontas
> Jungle book
> Aladdin
> BH6

Then silence.

>>88077288
>there is no room for anger
That didn't come across to me in your text, anon.

I just don't get why people can't consider the viewpoints of minority groups with more nuance, even if you ultimately don't agree with them.

>>88077305
>it "won" best animated feature at the Oscars

WRECK-IT-RALPH WAS ROBBED

>>88077314
PatF was legitimately shit in terms of representation for both the prince and princess and the villain was underutilized.

But it still doesn't erase the other legitimately not shit people of color movies they've made. Although PatF is still a decent movie story wise. They just went full retard by making Tiana a frog too. Literally what were they thinking.

I loved this movie, but above all it left me wanting more. I'm not a fan of sequels, but I hope Moana gets some kind of prequel or spinoff.

>>88069188
>daddy instead of grandma
so the dad was okay with sailing at first?

>>88077383

It happens every time in the animation category, no one actually watched all the nominations so they just vote for whatever disney movie is on the list because their 5 year old liked it.

>>88077349

I didn't intend for you to take the wrong meaning from my text.

>>88077314
>Disney is too scared to make a PoC MC without her being transformed for the whole movie!
To be fair Disney was afraid of upsetting people to the point where they cut Tiana's original personality and design and made the prince an ambiguous race.

>>88077383
I'm still angry desu. I like Brave but it should know its place as a crappy, boring movie that doesn't deserve any awards. It's barely above those low budget straight to DVD movies if not for the pretty hair animation.

>>88077314
Pocahontas ain't the best example when you're trying to convince people that Disney has a good track record with PoC MCs

although to be fair they did almost have a case because their claim was the Disney movies from the post-Renaissance with PoC protagonists all had them spend the majority of the movie as an animal

but they forgot Lilo and Stitch so it fell apart

>>88077394

Not saying anything on the quality of PatF, just that the POC community seems to dislike it and consider it not a 'real' POC movie because the MC's were frogs for most of the movie, even though they are still black characters, because we don't see their skin colors it doesn't count apparently.

>>88077413
Wreck-It Ralph was a Disney movie though, and it was easy more popular at the time. Going with Brave was just dumb.

>>88077466

> Disney princess MC movie > Disney non-princess movie

>>88077437
Maybe if they actually had black people helping them write the movie they would have done a good job. They also needed black people writing the music because it was really basic desu.

>>88077311
I agree. But I feel completely satisfied with the Moana we got, so I don't really wish we had gotten the previous version of the story. I would have liked the personality of Moana from More considerably less than the one we got.

I am curious about the other two stories Musker and Clements pitched along with Moana, though. Maybe one of them will pop up again after Gigantic and whatever the space race movie is going to be called.

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Can I bitch until I get a disney prince movie where they decided princesses just aren't worth the trouble and have a bromance

nick doesn't count as a disney prince but he's close

>>88077530
>implying Aladdin isn't a Disney prince movie about the bromance between Aladdin and Genie

I read that Maui does have a family in most or all mythical versions of him. I guess the Mouse feeds on orphans and the princess was spared in this one.

>>88075978
Christ it's just a fucked up as it was in the movie

I want to rewatch that scene

>>88077459
If you grow up seeing every other race get a proper Disney princess in their due time, and when finally the biggest animation studio in history makes a princess with your race, they make her a frog and are too chicken to write her a proper personality that viewers can relate to, it's disappointing. This was Disney's chance to do for young black american girls what they've done for young Polynesian girls with Moana, and they blew it. Just is what it is. Little girls want to be princesses, not frogs.

>>88077561
At one point in rewrites, his giant grandmother was going to be guarding Lalotai.

>>88077446
BLACK FROGS MATTER


>>88077487
This worries me. I want Zootopia to win this year's animated oscar.

>>88077588

> MC turns into a frog
> This somehow changes her personality and makes her not black anymore.

It just seems a bit obsessive over specifically her skin color being shown at all times.

>>88072601
>Also a ton of Chinese people think Mulan was too Americanized, despite enjoying it for what it is.

It included a dragon named after a stereotypical Chinese food (mushu pork) who inexplicably talked like a modern African-American hepcat. In medieval China.

Do a culture flip: it's sort of like if famous Korean animators made a movie set in Boston during the American Revolution, and threw in a smartass eagle named Cheeseburger whose gimmick was talking like a 2010s K-pop star.

>>88077627
on the one hand
>cute animals
on the other
>musical

Are there any more articles like this:
http://decider.com/2016/11/28/the-legends-behind-disneys-moana/
that compare and contrast the actual myths with the movie? I wanna know about the realm of monsters, Tamatoa, and the Kakamora.

>>88077530
>>88077548
And Herc.

I mean you *know* he clubs Meg and their kids to death years after the movie.


And i guess Hans did decide that princesses just aren't worth the trouble either.

>>88077634
>like if famous Korean animators made a movie set in Boston during the American Revolution, and threw in a smartass eagle named Cheeseburger whose gimmick was talking like a 2010s K-pop star.

This is my new dream movie

>>88077588
Uh, I'm Southeast Asian. I don't give a shit about princesses not *looking* like me. I just like good princesses.

>>88077548
>>88077652

I mean explicit bromance not implied

I WANT MAN LIPS ON MAN LIPS

I WANT A PRINCESS TO BE THE BAD GUY

THINK ABOUT IT DISNEY YOU COULD CHANGE IT ALL UP, THINK OF THE TUMBLR MONEY

you can even make her blonde haired and blue eyed

>>88077686
that's not bromance, that's just gay romance

>>88077646
Also:

>girl empowerment and self-discovery

vs

>fighting racism inherent in the system
also... inter-species/racial relationship

WildeHopps4eva

>>88077686
Kuzco and Pacha? Technically, Yzma could be a "princess". She probably looked like one a hundred years before the movie.

McQueen and Mater?

>>88077699

same thing

>He thinks bromance is just having a friend

That's just a bro my dude, the mance comes from the kissing

>>88077629
You can't be serious. Tiana had no personality regardless of being a frog or not. Disney were too afraid to give her any flaws or unique qualities whatsoever when they should have just written her like character. Making her a frog was also stupid because yes, it is nice to see a black character on screen in beautiful animation for once and this was am opportunity for that to happen, and instead they make her a talking frog. It was an unnecessary change to the fairytale that literally no one asked for.

>>88077729
sounds like someone never had a bromance before

>>88077749

I did

I gave him a handjob while he sat on my lap playing crysis on my computer

Can we talk about the indisputable fact that Moana has swished her hand in Maui's pee?

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>>88072097
What if someone wore this to the premier

>>88077684
I think representation is more important for kids than for adults like you and I. I read a post about a guy who took his daughter to work where she saw a deformed, hunchbacked woman. The daughter said "is she a villain?". It kind of demonstrates how much the media we consume can affect how we see the world. If a black girl only ever sees white protagonists in her movies then she might start to think that being a hero is a white thing. That black people are somehow just not suited for it. It's not even something that has to be said explicitly or purposefully. It's just kind of there implicitly. That's awful. That's why I love when movie studios intentionally try to diversify.

>>88077767
We can, but do we actually want to?

>>88077684
Yeah but little girls do. Like how they prefer female characters over male ones most of the time.

>>88077634
I get the point you're trying to make, but Disney also mixed up Japanese and Chinese culture a lot with the whole "honor" shit, when what should have been more focused on filial piety. Doesn't really help that they jammed US feminism into the mix. The themes of both just don't mesh very well.

>>88077767
The Ocean, which was a character, got peed in

>>88077797
I was 12 when I saw TLM. Immediately identified with Ariel and have been singing Disney Princess songs ever since.

I'm a dude. From Southeast Asia.

Kids these days need to stop being coddled.

>>88077684
Well good for you!

>>88077840
>US feminism

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>>88073824
Looks more like Dwayne big ass grand pappy

>>88077846
Every time I saw the Ocean, I was thinking Morphling from DotA.

Having said that...

>ocean effects
>glowing manta ray things

Ed Harris is going to drown soon in his own liquid oxygen suit, isn't he?

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>>88077878

>>88077869

It makes peoples lives a bit easier to just blame the US for everything, don't ruin it for him.

>>88077847
And that's great for you. I'm sure most non-white kids loved Ariel as well. No one's saying that white princesses are bad. It's just that it's weird when they're ALL white. I don't think it's coddling to show minorities that they and their stories matter.

>>88077746

> Tiana had no personality regardless of being a frog or not
> Hard working mindset
> Responsible
> Determined
> In order to reach her goals she often neglects her own well-being and day to day happiness
> Blunt
> Still has some amount of her 'dreamer' personality from when she was a kid
> Later on in the movie she chills out a little and has a confident and easygoing sense of humor
> Generally compassionate
> Something of a short temper at the start in regards to people screwing around.

Seems reasonable enough of a 'personality' for a disney movie, it's not overly extensive, but it's enough for a kids movie at least.

>>88057102
storytelling through visuals is lazy. it undercuts all subtley and nuance of language and vocabulary by replacing it with flashing images. Fuck that.

>>88077879
>Every time I saw the Ocean, I was thinking Morphling from DotA.
It reminded me of Flubber. No joke.

>>88077847
Everyone related to Ariel because she was a well written character with an speaking mm appealing design. Tiana was a trainwreck and hardly on anyone's list of characters anyone particularly cares about or relates to.

I can't tell if you guys are just pretending to be stupid.

>>88077942

> This movie company in a majority white western civilization makes movies with predominately white characters! That's just weird!

>>88077952

honestly, judging from the beginning, she could've just used more time to sleep.

>>88077879
Ed Harris is going to be shot by a cowboy robot

>>88077967
>an speaking mm appealing
Fucking autocorrect that's supposed to just say *an appealing

>>88077985

Sure, but her -personality- made it so that she prioritized working, she considers spending time on herself in the short term is just wasteful.

>>88077981
It's an American company making stories set in Europe. If you're already going to a different continent then why would you bother sticking with one race? It's a weird restriction.

>>88072097
>>88072380
>>88072513
So what do they think of Pokemon Sun and Moon taking place in not-Hawaii?

>>88078023

> White based fairytales and old stories come mostly from Europe

Who knew?

>>88077952
She's boring.

>>88078057

Subjective, but even then, doesn't mean she lacks a personality or that no one can relate to her.

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>>88077921
Guy on the left was legit 600lb and could throw high kicks, who also happens to be Dwayne's family. Unfortunately he ended up looking like Israel near the end of his life.

>>88078043
>White based fairytales
You're presupposing your conclusion by making this about "white based" fairytales. I was just talking about fairytales. Like I said, there's no reason to restrict yourself to white ones. I don't get what point you're even making.

>>88078043
I'm the anon making most of the PATF related posts right now (against the movie), and I have no issue with them making all white movies. I just think PATF didn't deliver. The animation was pretty, I liked the villain although they could have done more with him, too much of the movie focused on Naveen's angst/ development and not Tiana herself, and I didn't even get to stare at a cute brown waifu for the whole of it. 4/10. The Brandy Cinderella is better anyway.

>>88077847
It's not coddling. It's just that it's important for children to see characters that look like them in positive portrayals. There was a study done with children's books showing that minority children who had more books to read featuring minority children as MCs had consistently higher self esteem, than minority kids with primarily books with white MCs. It's just as important for children to have that in film and tv. No one is saying that kids can only identify with the character of their own race. That would be ridiculous.

>>88078108

Western majority white company makes movies with white characters.

Going more into details, Disney makes childrens movies, so in this case, fairytales work well, and again, most 'white' fairytales would come from europe.

My point was that it makes perfect sense that Disney's movie characters are mostly white, if Disney was formed and based in like, China, no one would say it's weird that they make movies that feature mostly asian characters.

>>88078079
People relate to what happens to her, but they don't actually relate to _her_ see what I'm saying? I'm sure there's a select few who exist but the number is too small to matter. Every other princess is more relatable and interesting and feels more human (put legitimately not intended) than she does.

>>88078162
There's no such thing as a white company. Disney is an American company with many types of people in it's target demographic. America is a diverse place. Plus now Disney is international.

>>88078079
her goals aren't really that relatable to the average audience member
compare Tiana's
>I need to stop being a frog so I can open a bakery!
to Rapunzel's
>my mom is an actual evil witch, I need to to get away from her!
or Belle's
>I need to help my dad!

>>88078199
Wait I read that as "(western majority) white" instead of "western (majority white)". My point about their target audience still stands. Who cares about the company?

>>88072513
>They start singing, I try and decipher the language. I cant.
is this bitch serious

>>88078217
>my mom is an actual evil witch
This is a tangent of course, but I feel like Tangled's villain was more an allegory for abusive parent/child relationships. The way she puts Rapunzel down while saying she loves her is a classic abuse tactic. The witch part doesn't really enter into it. That's very relatable to a lot of people.

>>88072380
>Do other white presenting Disney characters have to outlay their genealogical origins ever? Nope, they usually just exist “Long Long Ago, in a Place Far Far Away
maybe because those are fucking fairytales set in fairytale land and not an actual culture that might get offended by such a comment dismissing their origins as "a long time ago far away idk is it even real?"

>>88078280
well yeah obviously but that probably wouldn't be readily apparent to a child who wasn't abused

>>88078162
It's just annoying that Tiana is likely our ONLY black princess, because Disney will one and done a non-white race, but we have three French princesses and two German ones. Mix it up if you're going to keep giving us white princesses.

>>88078294
I mean it just straight up ignores/forgets that Hercules did the exact same thing

>>88078217
Well, they did dabble in the "evil white man is keeping me down" subplot which is realistic and in some ways relatable to most people (including whites honestly) but they dropped that like a hot potato and I was ultimately irrelevant because Tiana's issue goes from "I need to survive as a black woman in a white man's world" to "I need to find mama odie so she can make me not a frog"

>>88078217

Tiana's goal was to 'achieve her dreams' and get her restaurant, the whole 'dream' thing is the main point here, of course the specifics of it aren't relate-able, considering she's an adult and lives in a world where fucking magic exists.

I imagine most kids and/or teens would be able to relate to Tiana looking through the window and wishing 'please please please'. It's about wanting something that will make you happy.

Her character arc in the movie then deals with her having to realize that she should take the time to slow down and enjoy the small bits of happiness she'd been missing while she was working herself to death. There's nothing wrong with having a dream, but you shouldn't abandon everything else in your life to achieve it.

>>88057295
>Something that belongs in the trash
like you

>>88078339
>I need to survive as a black woman in a white man's world
It'd be interesting to see Disney really tackle that head-on. They must think it's too heavy for kids.

>>88078362
I mean

Zootopia

>>88078320

Again, considering their main demographic is white children, it makes sense that most MC of their movies would also be white.

>>88078387
Good point. But one is allegorical and the other is Jim Crow era Louisiana.

>>88078320
We can't know that. And besides, there are other animation companies making more diverse characters now that aren't animated on toasters. Although Disney is one of the most powerful media outlets in the world, we don't have to just early around for them to throw us a bone. Bilal looks like a good one. It's about Muslims so if you hate Muslims too bad, but it looks like it could be good.

>>88078412
>their main demographic is white children
Says who? Their demo is the entire world.

>it makes sense that most MC of their movies would also be white
And that's still the case.

>>88078348
I get that and all, but she's still a boring character.

>>88078023
What do you mean one race? Nordic, Anglo, Basque, Slav, Goth. Lotsa different ones there. Are you lumping everything together?

>>88078294

how did these cultures survive the millennia if they're so fragile

if another tribe told them "your god is bad and wears a dumb hat" would they have a crisis

>>88078443

I imagine their main income comes from America itself, and since whites are majority there, or at least, the majority whose children would go and see animation movies, that yes, the main 'demographic' would be white children.

>>88078387
They went pretty damn heavy with the racism theme in Pocahontas and Hunchback though. Especially Pocahontas.

>>88078465

I'm not saying she isn't a boring character, literally my only point was that she had a personality. I couldn't care less whether you find her boring or not. Just stating the fact that she does have a relatable and solid personality.

>>88078490
yeah, real deep with
>THEY'RE DIFFERENT FROM US, WHICH MEANS THEY MUST BE EVIL

>>88078484
>if another tribe told them "your god is bad and wears a dumb hat" would they have a crisis
they would blog about it apparently

>>88078475
To be fair (?), Americans tend to lump every group into one category based on skin color alone. It's how we're raised, and it explains why race relations in the country are so shit.

>>88078485
That's a lot of rounding up and assumptions. Like 63% of the US is non-hispanic white. Not a massive majority. And there's still a big non-white world out there. Why go after a slight majority when you can go after everyone?

>>88078509
By deep I meant heavy handed. They were completely open with having Native Americans can them white devils and say things like "these white men are dangerous". They also allowed their white characters to be racist, and even had them be somewhat likable despite being racist. I recall one of them singing "We'll shoot ourselves an injun. Or maybe two or three!"

This would never fly today.

>>88078553

Well, that's why they're doing these folk stories from other countries now, compared to all the german/french/etc ones from ages back, at least in some frequency.

>>88078485
No, their main box office gross is international, the largest chunk nearly always being from China, so we should have more Chinese princesses besides Mulan by your logic. I am all for that.

>>88078609

Thing is China likes white disney movies.

>>88078596
And I think that's great.

>>88078619
They also fucking love well done movies set in China. Kung Fu Panda literally made the Chinese film industry go "oh shit, why can't we make animated films set in our own country that great?"

>>88078619
they also REALLY REALLY like when a Chinese person is included in the white people's movie

just look at Days of Future Past

>>88078626

Sure, just saying, it still makes sense and isn't really weird at all that Disney made/makes a lot of majority white movies.

So anyway, I've seen some people start crack shipping Moana with the mountain, and they've gotten me considering it. I think I might ship it now too.

Also I'm surprised no one has humanized the ocean yet.

>>88078734
Nothing wrong with a crack lesbian ship. I wish Moana were older though. She doesn't have to be as old as a god, but I'd rather ship her as an adult.

>>88078734
>not shipping Ocean/Te Fiti

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>>88078775
Yeah ... yeah.

>>88078761
Me too. Especially since she takes over as chief by the end. She really might as well be an adult. I think they were really pushing for Moana being underage though what with the million comments Maui makes about her being a "child" "kid" and see one point saying she looks "8". The last one was an exaggeration but it's like they were stressing it so much it almost pissed me off a little. Rapunzel looks like a ten year old but she gets to be an adult, but Moana whose design could pass as 20 is not. Meh.

I know I'm just whining but still. Meh.

>>88078876
>took over as chief
wot? Her dad still had his chief hat

also I think Moana is at least 16 but Maui treats her as a kid because well he's 1000+ years old, every human is a child to him

I've thought about shipping Moana with Ariel, even in the theater I was thinking about it but something about this ship seems so contrived and annoying that I can't get into it. I'm only hoping it won't be the next Jack Frost/Elsa.

>hurr two characters have one basic thing in common that means they're soulmates!

>>88057418

You've for to give them points for 'you can't expect a demi God to beat a dechapod'

>>88078944
Dude, yes. They're both 16-ish (ignoring sequels) and they're both big into the ocean. It contrived crack, but it's good crack.

>>88078935
Oh, I thought she was chief due to her attire at the end. I know next to nothing about Poly culture.

And yeah I've used that excuse too but it's not the first immortal+human friendship Disney has ever had. It just felt like with this movie because they're making a big deal about there being no romance they're pushing the "she's underage so don't even think of imagining her in a romance, especially not with Maui" even though they have had many teen/adult romances in the past. In fact almost all of their romances are teen/adult. Shipping her with mountain or ocean doesn't make up for it either since those characters are even older than Maui.

I probably sound very autistic and paranoid right now but whatever

>>88079002
Except he lost a leg. He's a nonapod now. Dropped.

Just kidding. It's a nice line.

>>88078935
I took it as Moana's going to be the chief of whatever the new island is. She put her "stone" on the mountain after all. >>88078944
I feel like Moana would both get along with Ariel and get annoyed with her. Like Ariel's pretty dumb sometimes.

>>88079057
Ariel isn't really dumb, she just had culture shock. She seems dumb because she's not educated on basic things humans take for granted because her only source of information on the human world was a seagull.

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Best stupid crack ship coming through. I don't care if it's the same as Jack/Elsa. It's gay and it's Disney so I love it.

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Aww

>>88078944
>one basic thing
Moana is literally reverse Ariel

>>88079111
>Moana without curly hair
HOW DARE

>>88057418
I thought it was Tim Curry