Iceman team has been announced. Prepare to rage http://ne

Pls be Leth.
>it's not Leth
Who the fuck is her?

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Bishie Sinister, eh?

>some shit bookwriter
>again
>using a fujoshit instead of a someone whos gay
If i didn't hate this idea enough. I certainly would be more than upset about this.

>>88031028
I was talking about the content of the article no the writer

>gay guy known for semi-autobiographical work

>But just because Bobby Drake is going through this big life change at the moment (an even more profound change when it happens later in life than when you are an adolescent), he’s still going to be the wisecracker we’ve known for years. Ketchum said, “We’re not going to lose sight that Bobby’s always been the comic relief, funny and jokey character. He’s not a ‘Gold Star Gay’ [a gay person who has never had heterosexual relationships]. So we’re going to be seeing a funny moment where he sees one of his exes. I really want Sina to put in the line, ‘So what was I, just your beard?’ There’s going to be an acknowledgement of it, but it’s gonna be played off in the tone that Bobby usually does. But Sina will bring a real authenticity to it.”

I am sure this book will have a strong hook and won't just be about Bobby being gay ;^)

>>88031076
I only looked at first paragraph and cover.

>>88031075
Sina Grace is a man and a comics-writer, baby. How do you not take 2 seconds to check that out?

>>88030987

whelp, they can have bobby now. im done giving a shit

>>88031117
because i just wanted to shitpost.

>>88031049
Iceman Date Sim? Which one of these genocidal assholes will be wooed by the Omega-level hunk? Find out on I Love New Drake!

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>go to writers twitter
>profile pic

not even surprised

>>88031130
>tfw X-threads became shitpost centrals
>>88031134
Number of DLCs involved?

>>88031127

why?
Sina Grace is pretty good.
Alessandro Vitti is a decent artist (not at all who I expected on this but w/e)

>>88031049
>>88031134
>Iceman x Mystique in a man's body
At least that would be original, yo.

>>88030987
ICEMAN IS NOT GAY

>>88031166
Yeah.
>>88031180
Of course he isn't.
He's full gay.

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>is a comic about Iceman problems as a gay
I cant wait for Jaen Grey book by Kate Leth

>>88031134
I would unironically read bobby drake in a gay dating gameshow with three super villians.

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>>88031144
>the future is female

At least they're addressing Bendis's fuck up and acknowledging the relationships he had with girls.

>>88031289
Still feels wrong, instantly changing a character with a long history of being a ladies man with absolutely no signs of being gay into being gay.

It'd only be a worthwhile story if he discovered he was factually straight, because I can't ever recall an instance in which the subject of a character's sexuality was raised and it landed on straight as opposed to gay or bi-but-really-gay.

>>88030987
It's so nice of Marvel to have made Iceman into a character I genuinely hate, or else I might have actually been tempted by an Iceman solo book.

Thanks, faggotry, for saving me money.
Bendis's children can't be orphans soon enough.

>>88031270
The slogan is right, though.
Future brings nothing but unhappiness, sadness and death.

>>88031340
i wouldn't mind just bi but yeah. its so retarded.

>>88030987
Is it about teenage Iceman from the past or adult Iceman from current time?

Did they ever address what adult Iceman thinks of his younger self suddenly turning gay?

>>88031399
You realise the adult Iceman is gay too now right?

>>88031399

adult.

in the epilogue to Bendis' run (that came out like 6 months after his run ended) they did something like having the youngBobby and jean confront adultBobby, and he just kinda cried and admitted that being gay and a mutant was too hard, so he tried to just be a mutant.

>>88031399
>Did they ever address what adult Iceman thinks of his younger self suddenly turning gay

It turned him gay

>>88031427
What? Admitely it's been a long time since I've read anything with him on it but he was dating Kitty before she fucked off to space?

How did current time Iceman figure out he was gay? Did he talk to his past self and went "guess I'm gay now"? Are they petending he has always been gay? What the fuck is happening?

>Iceman's first solo
Didn't he have two runs that lasted four issues each?

>>88031481
minis

>>88031431
>>88031433
What the fuck? This is terrible writing, how's Bendis allowed to get away with this shit?

>>88031374
It was really weird that Bendis just didn't make him bisexual. He still gets SJW points and gets to be consistent with continuity.

It's almost like he gets off from screwing up continuity.

Plot:

Iceman buys an ice-cream truck which he calls the ICEVAN and travels around the country selling ice-cream, battling villains and solving droughts and shit with his Inhuman boyfriend Romeo. Series ends abruptly when Northstar is punched into the Earth at a substantial portion of lightspeed and totals the van. Bobby never speaks to him again.

Snapshots:

Hel is overheating, so the Norns team up with a pagan Neo-Nazi group in an attempt to kill Bobby and send him to the Viking underworld so he can keep it eternally frosty

The ICEVAN's freezer unit becomes possessed by the ghost of Jack Chick

Bobby gets into a fight with a drought-causing mutant in Texas but when freezing all the nearby water accidentally breaks the already-overloaded storm drain system. Can he possibly raise enough money to fund the necessary repairs only through selling ice cream?

Bobby's powers are being leached through time by a mysterious time traveler to cause the 1936 North American cold wave

Bobby signs an advertising contract for a beer company marketed on having "a cold one". The campaign is phenomenally successfully and he goes half-mad seeing his face everywhere every second of the day and has to figure out how to void the contract through industrial sabotage

Romeo stars as Romeo in an amdram performance of the Shakespeare play, but something strange is happening that drives him to act more and more like an authentic 16th century Italian bravo

ceman finds himself being hunted by Abominable Snowwomen

Bobby teams up with Wiccan and Hulking to prevent a cluster of meteors hitting the Earth but while having a celebratory drink afterwards Iceman makes a faux pas and says something that causes them to split. Forever, no takebacks

Co-written by the author of TJ and Amal

>>88031469
He was hiding it his entire life. :^) Yes, including during his love triangle with Polaris and through his many hetero relationships, he was thinking "Boy, I sure could go for some cock, right now"

>>88031494
>only just now realises Bendis is a terrible writer

>>88031469
Yes, yes, not pretending, he's gay now. He's had a late in life coming out, that's the canon now.

>>88030987
>>88031049
So what villains will he be fighting? I doubt it'll be everyone on the cover.

>>88031469
>Did he talk to his past self and went "guess I'm gay now"?

Pretty much, yeah.

>>88031481
Those were mini series.

I mean, this will be too, once it sells what it will, but it's intended to be an ongoing about Bobby Drake's Adventures in Mansex.

>We’re not in the business of pulling something out of nowhere and slapping it on to a character so he fits some quota
Holy shit, the editor of this comic is literally lying to my face.

>>88031531
Obviously he'll be fighting a fully human version of Ares' demigod son.

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>>88031501
>The ICEVAN's freezer unit becomes possessed by the ghost of Jack Chick

>>88031374
At this point bi is the best we could hope for and honestly, I can't figure why they didn't just go for that angle. There are plenty of gay X-Men but hardly any bisexual. And besides, it gives the fujoushis and crack shippers what they want with Iceman wanting dick while not taking away from his history

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>We’re not in the business of pulling something out of nowhere and slapping it on to a character so he fits some quota, or for the sake of telling some story. This had to come from somewhere, and it did.

>>88031501
I'd read these

>Editor says there have been fan theories about Iceman being gay that informed this decision
Letting fan theories tell you what to do aside, is that even true? I never heard about it.

>>88031494
Because a character being gay is basically the snowflake of comics. God help you if you try to disagree with even the suggestion, you'll be known as a homophobe for the rest of your career and beyond. Notice how many writers fell in line with saying they thought of him as gay after Bendis write it

>>88031570
I would forgive almost everything about the recent X-Men if they made Jean the amoral self-obsessed supervillain she was born to be.

>>88031616
CBR forums. The sole reason why Bendis made Iceman gay.

>>88031501
I would bet money on the real thing not being nearly as entertaining as these.

>>88031616
Yeah, it's true. Hint: everything is justifiable if you take shipping as justification.

>>88031623
I want to see Jean getting rekt.
Hope received more shit for being much less of a bitch.

>>88031075
>using a fujoshit instead of a someone whos gay
I don't know if the writer is gay, but it's this guy writing it, not a fujoshi novelist.

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>>88031661
Forgot the picture...

>>88031633
>Riri appreciation thread
>"do we know her orientation?"
Sometimes I wonder why I go there, desu.

>>88031642
Welp, time to stop pushing my personal agenda of Dormammu x Shuma Gorath into writer's Twitters.

>>88031570
How anyone likes Pichelli's art is beyond me.
I don't dislike it, but there is absolutely no appeal.

>>88031623
>>88031646
It's such a great set-up, isn't it? I have faith that once this bullshit blows over, they'll pull the trigger on that.

>>88031710
Well in X-Men Blue she's gonna be coached by former mutant terrorist supremo Magneto.

>>88031671
I love how entitled people act about character's sexuality now. Like that guy who asked Waid on Twitter how many of the Champions are LGBT. Not IF ANY, not WHO, HOW MANY.

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>>88031616
>>88031642

>>88031734
>Xavier gazing on in the background
>Xavier was behind mind-controlling Iceman to be gay all along
>Jean only finished it
W O W
O
W

DEEPEST LORE

>>88031733
And Blue and Gold X-teams are so boringly white.

>>88031734
He's not hollering and slobbering over some girl that just showed up, what a huge faggot. Later on he hits on Jean too.

>>88031733
Sure, but that's a deliberate throw, right? You ask in that way because the answers are "none" or "a number" and "none" isn't a permissible answer.

I don't see anything wrong with it, personally.

>>88031049

That's one handsome Mr. Sinister.

>>88031770
Waid answered "Keep reading" and would have said the same thing no matter how it was asked. If the guy was banking on Waid being unwilling to publicly say there are no gay characters, asking if, who or how many end up the same.

>>88031646
Hope vs. Jean fucking when?

Never ever.

It would be an amazing smack down.

>>88031757
Blue dude. Black chick. Metal man. One lezzie, and her Jewish waifu (not white by many classifications--not trying to start /pol/ shit either, honest), and a white senior citizen.

Pretty diverse desu

>>88031501
>no romeo is really sinister playing the long game.

>>88031811
What's Hope been up to recently

I still don't understand how the fuck O5 Iceman is gay and regular Iceman is straight.

That's not how sexuality works at all.

>>88031757
>tfw you will never break into the comics industry because you can't bring yourself into considering shit like this when coming up with a book

>>88031866
But no transracial rockkin, anon!
>senior citizen
I wonder how big Logan's pension would be in his timeline.

>>88031910
>I still don't understand how the fuck O5 Iceman is gay and regular Iceman is straight.

they're both gay

>>88031910
No, adult Iceman revealed he was gay his entire life but never came out of the closet when young Iceman confronted him about it.

Yes, I know.

>>88031917
>Storm
>Northstar
>Karma
>some 'onest American, Cannonball, maybe?
Just add two more members and you should check all SJW boxes.

>>88031907
Nothing after Secret Wars (or during iirc).

Last thing anyone saw was her kicking dear ol' dad off of X-Force. Then nothing. Rumor has it that Bunn will be doing something with her during IvX though.

>>88031686
I believe that's Immonem
Who is definitely good at drawing JB

>>88031764
Yea people seem to forget about that second part of how within a few issues, he was joining in on the horndogging for Jean

>>88031938
>>88031924

Oh fuck me. Why is the media so inept at just making a fucking gay character. It's always a publicity stunt and it's always bungled or piggybacking off of something else.

If I was gay I'd be insulted that they lack the talent to make a good gay character and have to retcon shit. If there's a god he'll kill off Iceman.

>>88031902
I can't give away the whole book, anon!

>>88031570
>>88031686
>>88031960
Oh, I just checked. That's Asrar

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Guys just tell me... Is there ANY chance Cable & Generation X will have any good teams? These teams announced so far give me despair

>>88031960
Is it?
If so my mistake, in either case the colorist phoned it in, and if it is Immomen, I'm a tad surprised because Grawbadger(sp.?) and Martin/Molina usually do a much better job.

I like how they say there was YEARS of evidence but can't site anything. TRUST ME GUYS THERE WAS EVIDENCE. LOTS OF IT. ALL THE EVIDENCE POINTED TOWARDS IT.

It's like Trump in a debate.

Meanwhile we have actual factual history of Bobby in loving happy relationships with women.

And it makes even less sense because we've seen Bobby in private times. His internal thoughts. Comics always deal with a character's issues in ways that only the reader knows about.

>>88032021
Spurrier/Bachalo on Cable is the only chance.

Unfortunately, we'll get Land, and no Spurrier.

Hopeless will probably be on Gen X so kekekekeke

>>88032021
Hopeless waits for his favorite GenX characters to write!

>>88032049
Nah, nigga. Bendis says all his relationships were shitty because he was always craving cock, roll with it.

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The funny thing was Liu did an arc about Bobby and his various relationships not too long before "fuck it he's gay" happened.

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>And if you even just look at his powers, it’s always just sort of been there, for the entire history of the Marvel universe.

ICE IS FOR QUEERS

LOOK AT HIM. HE'S A BIG SNOW DICK.

THE COLOR OF SEMEN.

>>88032084
Even funnier thing is that Liu can't say what she really thinks about Icefag because she'd get boot faster than you can say "Brian Michael Bendis loves black men".

>>88031494

because people spend money on things he writes

I'm not gay but this whole debacle and handling off Bobby feels insensitive as fuck.

>>88032099
>And if you even just look at his powers, it’s always just sort of been there, for the entire history of the Marvel universe.
This reeks of "I only know X-Men from the movies and there was that line about "Have you tried to stop being a mutant?" in the second one.

>>88031958
Hopefully she shows up in one of the other ResurrXion books

>>88032125

but she don't work for Marvel anymore...

>>88031568
Bisexuality is also the second most common sexuality in both sexes according to most reports, so it should be more common in comics than it is right now.

>>88032168
Then what do I know.

>>88032173
Filthy Trinityshipper detected.

>>88031340
Austen (I know.) had Northstar had a thing for Bobby and they said down and talked about it and Northstar accepted Bobby was straight.

It was actually really restrained. I wouldn't go so far as to say well written but Austen was never awful on the people to people stuff, it was comic stuff he fucked up on.

>>88032173
>second most common
How many sexualities are there now?

>>88032194
Eat dick, my ships are way better than that basic shit.

>>88032274

Are you retarded?

If the order is Hetero > Bi > Homo, that efectively makes it the second most common.

>>88032275
That's what would Trinityshipper say.
What are they?

>>88032271

This whole thing will be worth it if we get a panel of Northstar going "Are you kidding me?"

>>88032274
Four; Heterosexuality, bisexuality, homosexuality and (very, very rarely) asexuality.

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The most unfortunate thing is Bobby exploring his sexuality could have actually made for a good comic had they not gone out and said okay he's gay now 100%.

It could have been interesting to see how exploring himself and his sexuality, and thus his mental state, affected his powers. The variety in how you can present his ice form would have made for a really cool asset with this. When he first starts out thinking he's now gay he's using the typical macho man sculpted olympian god form. Then he starts having some rough and rocky patches he's being told who he is one either side and made to feel ashamed for it and he starts appearing in his spikier forms.

As the depression, shame and isolation kicks in you start seeing the change over to his more classic amorphous snowman look to hide himself and his emotions. And then ultimately he can realize it doesn't matter that much to him. He's a laid back guy who likes having a fun time and whether that's with a guy or a girl or an alien doesn't matter and we get the Iceman we love back.

Unfortunately it seems like it's going to go full on in your face heavy handed gay drama instead of it making for the potentially compelling arc they could have had.

>>88032146
No pls. The chance of having her back in a Cable book, is far outweighed by my desire to see her far far far far far away from current Hopeless--which is kinda sad because last time Hopeless wrote her (and Cable), it was genuinely awesome.

>>88032303
>I was always gay, Jean-Paul. I just wasn't gay... for you.

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>>88032349

>>88032049
On top of that, he's been surrounded by telepaths his whole superhero career and even had an entire arc dedicated to his subconscious forming ice clones to go after his loved ones, none of which were male. Bendis compounded the stupidity by writing that Bobby has been aware of being gay all along. Frankly this whole thing of retconning him full gay is just pants on head retarded yet you have people mindlessly cheering simply because it's LGBT and thus so progressive even if it makes no sense in context

>>88032294
Sounds like something a offended SuperBat fan would say.
Ayla/Salu, Lyle/Querl, Wickling and TimKon, mostly. Yours?

>>88032417
I only ship Batman with good old justice.

>>88032400
a lot of people who are gay have called it out. especially when there are gay characters who are being ignored for bobby.

>>88031499
There's a rumor he thinks bis aren't real.

More likely, he knows bisexual is easier to ignore by future writers while the gay reveal changed the course of the character forever.

>>88032432
It's the one true OTP.

>>88032461
>especially when there are gay characters who are being ignored for bobby.

> We could make our current gays interesting
> OR WE COULD MAKE BOBBY GAY

>>88032473
Hard to find pics of it, though.

>LGBT comics fans had long suspected that Bobby Drake was gay, based on evidence from years of X-Men stories.

>>88032463
that's because he's lazy and awful. if you want drama nothing sparks it quite like being bisexual. Both women and men hate it for long term partners.

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>>88032461
>especially when there are gay characters who are being ignored for bobby.
Remember the last time Striker got to do anything at all? Or Julie, for that matter.

>>88031501
I would honestly read this, sounds like some fun retarded shit.

>>88032518
To LGBT comics fans EVERYONE is gay.
Even you, fag.

>>88032291
Most common implies there are uncommon or even rare sexualities as well.

>>88032518

Literally how? We've some rabid shippers here on /co/ and I've never seen anyone bring up Bobby.

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>>88031180

he's been gay since the 80's. Jean outing him was stupid, but he's always been a flaming....er...well freezing homosexual

>>88032544
>Even you
What's happening?

>>88032544
there is a lot of homo erotic subtext in comics. Doesn't mean I think everyones a gay. That said the only gay superhero I've every liked is Midnighter.

>>88032574

Asexuals are about 1% of the world, that's pretty rate mate.

>>88031501
I would buy and read every issue of this

>>88032578

Because there's no one to ship him with. I have seen Pre-bendis speculation he's gay or bi.

>>88032610
Anon don't you know? You're gay. The LGBT comic fans said so so it must be true

>>88032613
>That said the only gay superhero I've every liked is Midnighter.
Good taste.

>>88032641
Johnny Torch, probably. He also never had stead girlfriend.

>>88032512
Hard to actually get it on with justice. Maybe he can sleep with Lady Justice.

>>88032641
There was northstar that entire batshit insane run chuck austin did. Its sad because chuck austin made iceman more possibly believably gay than bendis. Liek seriously as dispised as austin is how is bendis not getting a hundred times more hate?

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>>88032536
I'm just glad they've only killed off one of the Runaways.
They could have become like a young X-men team and gotten wrekt in every crossover to show the villain means business.

>>88032574
Heterosexuality is the most common, bisexuality is less common, homosexuality is less common than that and asexuality is really uncommon/rare.

>>88031049
>>88030987
>coming out

They're still doing this?

Also didn't robot chicken have an "iceman goes to gayclubs lol" episode years and years before this retarded shit happen? Did they base this entire retarded thing on a robot chicken episode?

>>88032657
Its more depressing the more i think about it. His run has shown the most badass as well as sexually involved gay person in cape shit comics. Everyone else is shit in comparison.

>>88032663
He's never had a steady girlfriend because they insist on making him the clown of the group. When does the comic relief ever get anything?

>>88032706
Idk if it's better for them to slowly fade into obscurity while getting fucked the shit over by stuff like Avengers Arena along the way.

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>>88032676
I've gotta date the marble!

>>88032711
>>88032328
>>88032614

Thank god too. Asexual friend I have is obnoxious as fuck about any kind of sexuality anywhere in any kind of media. Feel bad for her cuck of a boyfriend.

>>88032728
Worse

it was a Family Guy cutaway.

>>88032168
Isn´t Marjorie Liu doing a Star wars mini? Besides she has a deal with that no one can't write Cecília Reyes whitout her autherization.

>>88032742
In alternate universes when team is retired.
Does Bobby have any kid in alternate future?
>X-Men: The End, where absofuckinglutely every character has kid, Bobby has nothing.
Shit, not even Claremont gave fuck about him.

>LGBT comics fans had long suspected that Bobby Drake was gay

As a LGBT comic fan who was a pretty heavily into slash when I was younger, I can say that no shipper in the history of X-Men comics fandom ever thought that Iceman was gay. (There were a lot of people hoping for bi though.)

>>88032781
Have you told her to go to the doctor? a lot of asexuals are asexual due to a chemical imbalance. Sometimes its genuene but other times its fixable. Wouldn't cure her bitchiness though.

>>88032741

What a shame Orlando can't write Midnighter in a relationship for shit, though.

>>88032850
I've been digging the Midnighter and Apollo series...

>>88032461
A bi friend of mine ditched Marvel altogether for the "full gay" line.

>>88032871
Yeah, I'm bi and I found that to be pretty legitimately offensive.

>>88032850
Eh. its okay could be way better.. the issue is apollo. which a lot of writers have issue with. He's hard to write.

>>88032864

I want to see how it ends before passing judgement, but I'm mad it's called Midnighter and Apollo, yet fucking Extraño has played a bigger role in the plot than Apollo.

>>88032781
Some asexuals are extremely obnoxious, especially since there's been an influx of people/kids who pretend to be asexual because it makes them look cool on Tumblr.

I'd be perfectly happy if people would just stop telling me to go find "the right one", otherwise they can do pretty much whatever they fuck they want to.

>>88032900

I wasn't fond of the other guy either, even if the idea of a villain taking it up the ass for the sake of a plot is hilarious to think about.

>>88032711
Are there het Pepes, bi Pepes, homo Pepes, and Rare ace Pepes?

Man just reading about their intentions sounds fucking awful. The first thing they could think of is ex-girlfriend drama getting pissed at Bobby for being gay.

And then we're gonna have to hear the soapbox speeches about how hard it is to be gay and how brave Bobby was (despite the fact that there are people who literally fuck different species in the Marvel universe and lay with gods, demons, mutants, aliens and goddamn WEREWOLVES WHO ARE IN THE X-MEN.

But yes muh special snowflake Bobby had a hard life because he secretly wanted to try out dick.

>>88032400

Don't you know? Those subconscious clones were trying to kill the loved ones so he'd be free to fuck men.

>>88032940
Yes, but you usually have to be an educated pepe expert to be able to discern a pepes sexuality unless it's a flaming pepe.

>>88032871
>>88032883
>Marvel tries to be all inclusive and progressive
>Completely passes over the very real, and in Bobby's case very applicable, fact that sexuality is a spectrum not a switch

Bravo, Benis.

>>88032933
I was fine with prometheus some of them were hit and miss. However it feels lacking because the relationships are more of a set piece and are only superficially delved into.

>>88032954
No-selling it would be the amazing thing.
>Bobby tells the team they're being really insensitive about him being gay
>Northstar walks into the room half naked and sensually opens up a beer
>The ghost of Xavier manifests and talks about the time he astrally fucked a psychic alien world that was dicks all the way down
>Cutaway to Daken being double-teamed by two burly lumberjacks while tearfully clutching a picture of Sigmund Freud saying "I don't hate you dad!"

>>88033004

That this series isn't damage control and walking back/fixing Bendis is wild

>>88032883
Man I spend a hell of a lot of time rolling my eyes at people being offended at comics and I was pissed off at full gay.

Jesus dude.

I'm sorry the inclusive diversity window thinks you guys are expendable.

>>88033023

Honestly I'd read the shit out of a Bobby comic where everyone around him is in hysterics over him being gay and he just doesn't give a fuck.

>>88032536
julie belongs with ricochet

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that's how I feel

>>88032871
>>88032883
>>88033051

The worst part about it is Jean addresses the fact that Bobby has dated women all his life and then tells him no you're just gay.

It's insensitive as fuck. But bi doesn't sell as well as FULL GAY.

>>88032728
>Did they base this entire retarded thing on a robot chicken episode?
"Iceman is in the closet" isn't a new idea. I remember people at my LCS in the late 90s saying how Iceman was totally a homo and writing him as gay in slash or fanfiction had been going on for a couple decades.

Thing is, it's fine for people to write gay Iceman fanfictions because it's fanfiction or joking about him being in the closet because of how all his relationships turn out. Actually making him gay in canon though is a whole other bag of worms.

>>88033000
>those digits
confirmed

>>88033125
Again chuck austin made it work where bendis didn't. The man is literally worse than chuck austin. This is the state that marvel is in.

>Iceman has been surrounded by telepaths his entire life and he was never revealed to be gay
>O5 Iceman is mindread by Jean and revealed to be gay
>This means Iceman is outed at a young age and we'll just say something in being brought to the future during puberty affected his sexuality (even though that's not how it works in the slightest
>Either way that means Iceman was outed as a teen meaning he lived his whole life openly gay
>Which would mean none of the relationships Bobby has been in in the past should exist
>Which also means Bobby shouldn't still be in the closet when confronted by Jean and O5 Bobby because everyone would have already known

This is why the O5 shouldn't exist.

>>88033165
Who hurt franchise more: Austin or Bendis?
Or Aaron?

>>88032907
>has played a bigger role in the plot than Apollo.
The entire plot is Midnighter rescuing Apollo from hell.

>>88033108
Young Iceman could be gay. Call it time fuckery whatever.

Old Bobby could be bi, and I think many people wouldn't care as much.

>inb4 that's not how sexuality works
muh sliding scale

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>>88032349

>>88033202
The O5 =/= adult counterparts

There's something to do with the timestream adjusting itself to accomodate both of them. While they are the "originals" they're not at the same time.

It's odd, but yep

>>88033204
for a bit austin actually saved the x-men and made it popukar before going batshit insane. Bendis AND Aaron both tanked the x-men and they are currently so far low they lost the stable 100k they used to have years ago.

>>88032824
Yea he had a kid with Kitty in the universe the Battle of the Atom future X-Men came from. In fact, his future self gave him advice on how to pick up chicks

>>88033210

And Apollo has done what, so far? Gotten himself dragged to hell?

>>88031180

I don't care how many girlfriends he has had while showing no interest in men for decades of his existence, he's gay. Not bi. Gay.

>>88033246

THEN WHY THE FUCK DID ADULT ICEMAN HAVE TO BE MADE GAY

>>88033256
>In fact, his future self gave him advice on how to pick up chicks

oops

>>88033336
B E N D I S

Also, Fester HATES Aaron

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>>88033251
Schism was a mistake, go figure.
>>88033256
Ah, found her.
>Carmen Drake (son)
kek

>>88033360
How did that happen? One wanted Battle of the Atom, other didn't and Bendis stole Kitty from Aaron?
That explains Smugclops at the end.

>>88033394
Basically.

So Aaron had adult Bobby, so Bendis couldn't do anything about it, so after Aaron was off X-Men (and actually after Bendis was too, really) Benis wrote UXM #600 and turned the adult into a gay.

Basically, it's borne out of X-Treme salt that Aaron would pair up his waifu with somebody that isn't Bendis approved.

>>88033462
Madmen running the asylum.
Guess I know how Cash or some other rare honest guard feels in Arkham every weekend.

>X-Men line continues to be garbage
>Inhumans line actually moving towards something interesting

I am starting to think they are doing this on purpose

>>88033489

Jean came back from the dead because a fanboy wanted the O5 back and to hell with the current plots. It's the same as it ever was.

And this is assuming there's truth to /co/ gossip which is highly unlikely

>>88033490
they had ellis and it tanked. ewing's books usually sell around 20k. the others are literal whos.
marvel is fucked and not even x-men are going to save them, which is good, because they had it coming

>>88033538
>they had ellis and it tanked.
In fairness, that book primarily failed due to delays.

>>88033650
yes and no, the story was very unappealing

>>88031096
It's Jean's fault for forcing gay sex into Bobby's head.

>>88033702

Can't wait for Magneto to inadvertently push Jean further down her villainous path and we find out Bobby was never gay and Jean mindfucked him.

Save us Bunn.

>>88033809

I'm pretty hype to see Magneto radicalize the kids

>>88031501
This shit is better than what we're going to get.

Also woman writer writing about a gay guy, this comic is going to read like a fanfic and she'll fethishize the shit out of it and make Iceman act like if he were in a Shojo comic.

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>>88033084
forgot pic

>>88033911
>woman writer
The writer of this comic is a man. That is explained in the link in the OP or, alternatively, by taking the absolute minimum time and responsibility for checking information imaginable and just searching the name. Literally the most absolute basic fact-checking you can do instead of jumping to conclusions and you chose not to do it.

Incidentally, the writer of TJ & Amal is a woman.

>>88033911
>Also woman writer writing about a gay guy

You need to reread >>88031117

>>88031686
It wasn't Pichelli but I know what you mean, everyone is weirdly cutesy and makes the '3' face. I guess her art is OK for teen or kid characters but she was so out of place in GotG.

>>88033211
They could have even made them both bi and had Young Bobby primarily focus on male love interests in a way of getting a second chance to experience what his older self had never embraced while the older version could have either as he comes to terms with being bisexual. That however is out of Marvel's depth

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>>88033911
>Also woman writer writing about a gay guy
This is the writer.

>>88034001
>>88032333
>implying Marvel is capable of that level of tact

This is gonna be trashy, indirectly offensive and pandering and we all know it.

>>88031117
>>88033955
It's honestly hard to tell anymore
>>88031144


>>88032850
He fucking needs to give Apollo something of his own or some damn personality before he can do that tho.

>>88034001
This would've been interesting.

>>88032850
His relationship with Prometheus was fine

>>88032125
Actually, she said that she always wrote Iceman as gay. Liu is...really fucking stupid.

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>>88031198
>He's full gay.
Not just bisexual, but full-gay?

>>88034468
FULL gay. Gay actor/singer on Broadway from romantic comedies. Gay that much.

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>>88033809
Making Jean canonically responsible for turning Bobby gay would be the ultimate "fuck you" to this generation of X-men writers.

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>>88034468
>Not just bisexual, but full-gay?
Jean Grey read his mind and confirmed it.

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>>88034516
My bad, this pic is first.

>>88033202
Remember that this one was outted with Jean in the room and Jean forcing Young Bobby to tell Old Bobby. Make no mistake, Jean Grey is a super-villain.

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>>88034516
>>88034548
Bobby Drake, the demolished man.

>>88034517
So who is this artist?

>>88034517

Man I'm straight as a yardstick and I'm pissed for bisexual people.

>>88033538
>they had ellis and it tanked
Karnak tanking had nothing to do with the quality of the book and everything to do with the fact that the first issue came out well over a year ago and yet the first 6 issue arc still isn't FUCKING DONE.

Karnak was a failure because the whole book was going to be an artist showcase for an artist that suddenly got terminal cancer or some shit halfway through issue 2.

>>88034517
>He dated Kitty Pryde
>And now she no longer lives on the planet
Yea because that was totally Bobby's fault that she fell into the arms of a guy from space 5 minutes after breaking up with him. Also that's relevant how?
>Maybe I'm bi
>They say everyone is
How the Hell is it that Marvel is afraid of offending gays yet let's a line like that that's basically denying the legitimacy of bisexuality into print?

>>88034468
This arc was the only time Iceman has ever been any good in his entire existence.

>>88034754
616, at least.

>>88034595

Mahmud Asrar.
most recently drew Waid's ANAD Avengers, and now is on Pak's Totally Awesome Hulk.

>>88034771
Well they fucking suck, but what I said about Picheli still stands.

>>88034720
The book also isn't good though.

I don't mind when a character's arc leads them to revealing their gay, bisexual, straight, in love with a chair, whatever as long as it feels natural. What isn't okay is fucking FORCING IT TO HAPPEN BECAUSE FUCK IT, WE NEED MORE LGBT CHARACTERS! I apologize for my tone but this pisses me off especially with the way they did it. Let's use a character who is has changed a person's entire thought process before to "reveal" that the character is LGBT. This entire thing has made me despise young Jean and that fucking sucks.

>>88031469
The claim is that he was so far in the closet, even he didn't know. Which makes Jean's forcing it to the conscious self more horrible horrible.

>Bobby "Dick Makes Me Quake" Drake

>>88034517
>Jean Grey read his mind and confirmed it.

You mean Jean Grey manipulated his mind. Or do you not find it suspicious for Jean to want to be there when young Bobby confronted his adult self about being gay?

>>88034859

That means that Bobby was biologically, mentally and emotionally straight. Homosexuality is an abnormality and Jean brought it to the surface and essentially caused irreversible traumatic damage to his identity.

She's literally the reverse equivalent of a christian gay camp.

>>88032536
Striker was proto-Iceman. Tried really hard to with women to be popular, but wasn't feeling it. Still a really unfun character though. Finesse, Hazmat and Mettle were way more interesting and even Veil and Reptil had more interesting powers if they were pretty much flops.

>>88032728
https://youtu.be/7nhesX-8DXo

>>88035099
Striker was great as the team asshole.
But after they made him gay that became his only personality trait.

>>88035153

Sounds like how Marvel handles any issue with weight.

>>88035099
>Mettle
Don't remind me. Also they really should have put Finesse to X-23's Wolverine ongoing.

>>88032349
"Wolverine has made being Canadian a turn off for me"

>>88035177
That would require Marvel writers to give a shit about past stories.

>>88035222
Sure, but the Taskmaster moment was a perfect moment to do that. I wouldn't mind them tapping some of her old old cast she was introduced with either. I feel like Laura has quite a strong supporting cast for a relatively recent character? It's not all existing X-People characters either.

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So who's going to be his first mutant bf? I hope they make Colosus come out of the closet and hook up with him.

>>88035299
>Colossus' metal dick contracts and breaks off
>Kitty steals it and flees back into space

>>88035153
He isn't a fun asshole that did bad things in over the top manner or asshole that tries to be a good guy but quickly gets annoyed with others or struggles with control, just an asshole for the purpose of having one.

>>88032578
He had lots of relationships with women that never worked out. Now it's not for reasons explicitly stated in the stories themselves such as being immature or his superhero lifestyle conflicting with said relationships. Ignore the fact that for years he had a woman, Opal Tanaka, who even after their breakup was portrayed as pretty much the love of his life. Ignore that there was a running subplot (Austen but canon nonetheless) about Northstar having a crush on him and this making Iceman uncomfortable because Iceman was explicitly not gay and didn't know how to deal with a gay man flirting with him.

You see, that's all evidence that he's gay all along and was just very deep in the closet. The only thing gayer than being gay is being straight because that means you're secretly gay and are just waiting for your inner bitch to come bursting out belting Liza Minelli songs.

>>88035177
>What are you going to do, stab me?

>>88035299
He hooks up with Northstar and then the rest of the book is a courtroom drama of Northstar's divorce proceedings.

>>88035404
God, the gay men of the Marvel U really run a train on fucking Northstar huh. Dude's asshole has the attractive power of a black hole, they ALL fuck him.

>>88032463
Bisexual in superhero comics is the go-to for making previously straight characters gay. Know that when you see a straight character turned bi, that's code for gay and they'll never be in a relationship with the opposite sex again.

The only bisexual character I can think of in comics who's very explicitly bisexual (not just slyly alluded to like Herc) and is shown in sexual relationships with men and women is Daken and that's mainly because he's a sociopath and sex is another tool he uses to manipulate people.

Maybe Mystique but she was Claremont bisexual, was never actually shown being romantic with Destiny (despite what was implied and stated by Claremont) and all of her on page relationships are with men pretty exclusively (Wolverine, Forge, Iceman, Sabretooth).

>>88035527
>Daken
WTF even happened with him? Last I remember he was in that pretty shitty Wolverine ongoing, lacking an arm and an eye for no good reason

>>88035562

he hasn't appeared since the Wolverines series ended.

meaning anyone can ignore that shit thanks to Secret Wars

>>88035385
Seems about right for CBR's logic. Gay until proven straight, but since that's impossible because straight is a myth and you're obviously just in the closet finding Narnia, then full gay

>>88035562
Last I've seen of him was right before Secret Wars, where Mystique killed every healing factor carrier she could find.

>>88035299

Damn Kurt. The Catholic church did a number on you.

>>88035562
He hasn't shown up in anything since Wolverines ended.

>>88035360
So he was the team Reggie. Nothing wrong with having a Reggie in the cast.

Why is Marvel being so retarded? They have TWO gay X-Men characters that just got married!

Fuck this forced PC garbage.

>>88035527
What about Deadpool? Bisexual (or pan, whatever) and mostly in relationships with women.

>>88032084
Anon...that arc is basically a love letter to the "closeted bobby" fan theory

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I have absolutely no faith on this book based on this dude's tastes

>>88035527
Rucka semiofficially announced that Wonder Woman was bi and pretty much the next issue she got back together with Steve.

>>88035613
Not just CBR but all slash shippers. This shit doesn't happen nearly as often with straight shippers. Straight shippers will think a ship is fun, they might draw fanart or write fanfiction but that's really where it stays.

Slash shippers though are fucking cancer. Everything is evidence of a gay relationship. Characters are friends? Gay. Characters hate each other? Gay. Characters have only interacted with each other once for 30 seconds? The chemistry is palpable! Characters have never interacted? Just wait until they do! Characters are straight and in relationship with women? In the closet, they'll realize they're gay soon enough.

It's fucking insane and not only is the Iceman "reveal" awful and stupid as a piece of writing, all it does is empower those types of morons.

>>88035724
Until there is a polygamous marriage of Kitty to Rachel and Illyanna with Karma being salty AF.

>>88031049
My Iceman Can't Possibly Be This Cute

>>88035830
>death of the author means fuckall, especially in comics

>>88035767
The only thing anyone can ever cite about Deadpool being gay/bi is one joke from Cable & Deadpool and a relationship between the two that's just as easy to see as two guys in a close, odd couple friendship. That's the thing a lot of shippers can't seem to comprehend, especially the slash ones: it's very possible for two people and characters to have a close friendship without being gay, even if they're the same gender. Especially if they're the same gender.

>>88035780
A gay man with terrible taste in entertainment? Shocking.

>>88035908
God I'm reminded of the cancer that was the #GiveCaptainAmericaABoyfriend or whatever it was after Civil War hit theaters

>>88035724
>Why is Marvel being so retarded? They have TWO gay X-Men characters that just got married!

They don't have the brand staying power an original X-Men does

>>88035908
Have you been reading Spiderman/Deadpool, anon? There's only so many gay jokes Deadpool can crack before people start to think that he wants to hit at least some of that.

>>88035841
>Not just CBR but all slash shippers

Tumblr fujoshits are the equivalent of casuals when it comes to comics.

>>88035979
Iceman has very little branding power

>>88036027
Again, it's not limited to comics. You're aware of how all the fujoshits are regarding Supernatural right? As in sending death threats to the wives of the main stars and earnestly believing that they're gay IRL and that their marriages/families are really giant conspiracy theories by the studios to cover this fact.

>>88036109
The other new gay characters have even less

>>88035527
>>88035562
Even though Daken is yet another additional to the Wolverine clone clan, and he is a textbook callous bi trope, I still actually kind of like him as a character.

>>88036171
Even popular X-Force bisexuals?

>>88036144
To be fair those crazy rpf fans are a very small minority, and to my understanding are deplored by the rest of the fandom.

The incest shippers on the other hand were actually loud enough to get a reference in the show, which is...disturbing.

>>88036027
>>88036144
>>88036144

Look into the BLmatsu sect of the Osomatsu fandom.

It's fucking insane. Keep in mind the Osomatsu boys are all brothers.

>>88036205
In modern comics he's practically a revelation. He's a character of a different sexuality who isn't portrayed as magical and pure and a hero. He's a manipulative, despicable, rotten person who uses sexuality as another weapon.

>>88035527
Constantine is strictly bi. I'm pretty sure his relationship with Zatanna was referenced in his current run.

>>88036376
But there are plenty of villains that rape to control others

>>88035724
Northstars husband is fucking boring as hell and I can't wait for him to be dumped/killed off so they can pair Northstar with iceman

>>88036171
No shit, Marvel never uses them. That doesn't mean take a recognizable character with an established sexuality and retcon them gay. Even LGBTs called foul on that

>>88036510
They do, but they stuff the two characters they use into a corner of a comic that no one cares about and calls it a day.

>>88032824
Claremont never gave a fuck about Bobby. There's a reason he got sent packing to the Champions/Defenders.

I want a scene where Adult Bobby tries going to a gay bar and is just overwhelmed by the lewdness around him.

>>88036510
>Even LGBTs called foul on that
You think Marvel cares even slightly?

Acceptance and progressiveness don't matter, just the appearance of acceptance and progressiveness.

>>88033525
>Honestly believing that the O5 hanging out with Dazzler instead of Jean would have not been so shit that even the heroic efforts of Team Simonsons would have been able to turn it around.

God, if you think people shit on Cyclops for leaving now, just imagine the universe where he ditched her to go hang out with a Disco Queen.

>>88035211
"...touche, Drake."

>>88035527
I mean if you have them sleep around constantly you get the "Oh so all bi people are sluts." complaint, and if you have them stick with one SO you get, "So why are they even bi?".

So you're kind of fucked coming and going aren't you.

>>88036205
Sometimes its okay for a villain to just be a scumbag I guess.

>>88037057
Just like in real life then...

>>88034849
>FUCK IT, WE NEED MORE LGT CHARACTERS!

Fixed. Marvel, like gay men, doesn't believe in bisexuals.

>>88036205
It's the claws

>>88037025
Even if they revealed that Dazzler is Cyclops' cousin so the "you left me for another woman?" turns out a funny comedy and they raise the baby who is closer to Nate Grey than Cable in role as an adult?

>>88037101
...Except literally all their female characters are bisexual if they aren't lesbians.

>>88036503
They married him so they wouldn't have to use him. Why would he die?

>>88037166
Psylocke isn't bi.

Sleeping with a female persona given physical form of a 1/3rd Sentinel is perfectly natural.

>>88037166
Not officially. A lot of tease, but few open admit sexual attraction to others.

If we could actually get a semi decent creative team on one of these books, that would be great.

>>88037223
Wasn't she banging Cluster?

>>88037863
Did you read my post at all?

>>88037881
Look if you're gonna talk about Psylocke's lesbian relationship you're gonna have to be more elaborate and more explicit.

>>88037989
It's lesbian!

Look, so she's banging this dude with wings (but get this, he has a dark side WITH WINGS).
Anyway, winged guy became a douche, so she makes out with a dude who is part egomaniac, part sentinel, and part genuinely good dude.
Anyways, she kills dark wing bro cause he was a dick, right.
Few whiles later she gets boned by the part sentinel dude, who then gets killed by a barrister.
Later on, the Sentinel dude's nervous system figures out a way to resurrect the sentinel dude, but Deadpool presses the wrong button, and part Sentinel dude gets split up into those three personalities above, except the genuinely good dude manifests as a girl.
Anywyas, Psylocke goes on vacation with the egomaniac and the good girl and starts stealing things.
She gets upset because the egomaniac is kind of a prick (but not like his wingman from earlier). So naturally, she bones the good part of the dude (female) and is happy. Unfortunately the egomaniac is upset by this, so he furiously masturbates with himself (female) and Psylocke gets sad so she steals a car and flies away or something before getting kidnapped by the sentinel persona.

But the nice girl (male) that Psylocke slept with, was just her sleeping with the good parts of the dude she slept with before he was killed.

>>88037989
>>88038216
>It's not lesbian!

fugg

>>88037057
It's almost like the answer is "stop trying to turn straight characters gay/bi".

>>88038216
>>88038226
She slept with a girl, it's lesbian. It should actually be part of whoever next gets to write a Psylocke character art - either that that was one time, special circumstances, or that she adjusts to realizing an attraction to women. Both are fine, but it's something to address either way.

>>88038674
Cluster wasn't a girl though. It's wrong to even call her human.

Ok, for a similar scenario: if someone sleeps with Legion in a female state of mind, are they sleeping with Legion (a guy) or a girl?

>>88030987
The only way the Jean Grey solo comic would be interesting, is if its about older Jean.

>>88038747
You're kinda skipping out on the fact Cluster was biologically identical to a human female. If you slept with Legion in your example, you'd be sleeping with a male body. If you slept with Cluster, you'd be sleeping with a female body.

>>88032839
I like when shippers say that no character every says they're straight so they can be interpreted bi if they want and Bobby had a whole bullshit thing with Northstar wanting his dick and was confirmed no homo and it gets changed for diversity bullshit.

Support the goddamn gay characters that exist you shitstains. comics are saturated with a larger percent of active gay characters than exist in real life yet we still have to have this garbage because it's not GOOD enough because it's not a character people already know and gets into movies.

>>88038795
Legion could conceivably change that.

>>88031733
Miles is in the closet though.

>>88036362
jap fandoms are an entire different thing, and actively encouraged by the producers for $$$$

Why not read some decent comics instead of bitching about one that isn't out?
The whole Messiah story is being done right now on this board and like nobody is reading it.

>>88041676
>Messiah
>Good

Being less shit doesn't make it passable.

>>88041760
This is bait.

>>88038790
Old Jean is boring too. Just bring rightclops back and give him a title

>>88034517
Is this an edit?

>>88042318
No, there are edits above and below it, but that's real 100% Benis

>>88041824
A story about more posturing while not doing anything?
Might as well just sell a Sienfeld adaptation.

>>88042318
That is completely real. 100% Bendis

>>88041794
No he's right. Messiah Complex is alright but Messiah War is dull and Second Coming sucks. Despite all the problems I have with Morrison's run, wiping out his status quo in the first place outside of immediately retconning what he did to Magneto is one of the dumbest things Marvel's ever done.

>>88045359
>Second Coming sucks
boo

>>88045404

Compared to the shit runs they've had recently it's not bad but Second Coming is pretty shit m8.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6PNc9KN50M

>>88045404
It had the most action, drama, and actual story of any story run in years.
WTF are the standards for good comics around here?

>>88046077
What? I said boo to him saying it was bad.

>>88045359
>wiping out his status quo in the first place

Turnabout is fairplay, given that his first act was to nuke the shit out of the status quo that was newly in place when he took over.

>>88045359
>muh Morrison status quo
That literally has nothing to do with the Messiah shit.

Sorry, what am I supposed to be getting mad at here?

>>88046466
Rachel Grey's new makeover

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>>88046481

>>88030987
>LGBT comics fans had long suspected that Bobby Drake was gay, based on evidence from years of X-Men stories. In fact, editor Daniel Ketchum confirmed that these years of fan theories played heavily into Marvel officially outing Bobby for real. “I wasn’t involved entirely in the story at that point,” Ketchum said. “But [former X-Men writer] Brian Michael Bendis was very wise to identify that all those threads that existed. We’re not in the business of pulling something out of nowhere and slapping it on to a character so he fits some quota, or for the sake of telling some story. This had to come from somewhere, and it did.

Couldn't even finish beyond this point. Damn these blatant lies.

>>88046692
That's true though. You might be too young to remember internet discussions from 20 years ago.

>>88046692
To clarify, nothing left the realm of subtext back then, so this wasn't like tumblr declaring everything they want canon.

I know I shouldn't have expected the book to be anything beyond GATHER ROUND GATHER ROUND COME LOOK AT TEH GAY, but here we are

>>88046077
The standards should be "tell a good story" which Second Coming didn't do. The capper is Nightcrawler's death which is the biggest example of "well it's an event so SOMEONE has to die" I've ever seen.

>>88047080
>Second Coming
>event
It's a crossover.

Exactly how did Second Coming not tell a good story?

Will his new status as a gay twunk ensure he always gets attractive art?

>>88046809
>>88046913
Fair enough. I didn't visit message boards and BBS' when I was six.

Still, it's kind of shitty to point to chatter from years ago and say it's a factor in determining a character's sexual orientation. After the whole Carol Corps zeitgeist I find it very hard to believe Marvel keeps track of what its fans want.

>>88047361
Well the whole thing was handled poorly. I can accept them using old subtext as criteria if the editorial proposition was to out an established character instead of making a brand new one who would draw less attention, but he could easily have been bi and just decided he was going to give men a shot. Or at the very least come to an understanding of his homo status on his own. Jean was really unhelpful.

>>88047455
>Jean was really unhelpful.

Because she was responsible.

>>88047489
>you will never get to become the little girl like Bendis did

>>88047555

What are you talking about you know Bendis is Star Lord.

>>88031623
Shit, if they had Jean make Bobby gay instead of outing him just because she could, it would have been masterful.

>>88047588
That's just what she wants you to think.

>>88031049
>Bishounen Mr. Sinister
>Happy Apocalypse
>Tranny Juggs

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>>88047674
>You want to stay in the past.
>You are gay.
Not much of an escalation there.

>>88047455
See stating subtext as a reason for such a change is honestly stupid as all Hell, especially considering that comics are bathed in homosexual subtext. Doesn't mean that the characters are gay. That'd be like saying that Batman is a pedophile because of subtext of his relationship with various Robins in combination to him constantly taking in minors and slapping them into Robin's tights. Subtext isn't the same as real hints and people who try to pull from it are grasping at straws

>>88047729
I suppose, but the shitstorm surrounding it would have been more interesting and character focused than the one we got.

>>88047789
I don't think you've quite grasped the proposition here. All things being equal, if a veteran mutant must be gay, it should be the one without a long-term love interest or history as a womanizer who also took Rogue home to come out to his dad. Hank would be the runner-up for this great honor. The alternatives are even more egregious.

>>88048066
Hank would have made so much more sense.

>>88047814
How could we have enjoyed anything?
Every night there were five threads up about how all of Marvel and all of X-Men and all of Iceman and Jean were all such horrible shit and then every thread was nothing but screeds about how nobody should be allowed to admit they enjoy the comics.

I've never seen that much blatant homophobia outside of a hate-crime. And I have witnessed actual hate-crimes, it came close to being worse.

>>88048105
Probably, though with him you have the problem that he canonically toyed with the idea before discarding it. I think it was non-serious.
Then again, he's nuts.

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>>88048105
Hank's not gay, Hank's a crossdressing astrologer, haven't you been paying attention?

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>>88048150
>>88048105