Why do people whine when Superman or Batman are forced to kill

Superman and Batman are heroes
Optimus is a truck
He's made to kill

>>87884846
optimus (in those movies) is a soldier first and foremost fighting for the survival of two species.

>>87884846
They do.

Besides, Optimus is fighting a war....there will be casualties in a war, he may be portrayed as less violent in other media but at the end of the day he's a soldier, not a cape fucker.

>>87884913
One could argue that Optimus is a detriment to his own species in those movies, while the Decepticons are more fighting for their species survival

>>87884977
decepticons are fighting for the resurgence of their species at the sacrifice of another, optimus is fighting for peaceful coexistence between humans and the remaining cybertronians. he's man of steel superman as far as ive seen. cybertron had its chance.

>>87884913
>>87884977
>>87885012
>>87884891
All these explanations are well and good but the truth is :
No one in the big audience knows how the fuck Optimus is supposed to behave. if fans complain about it, they are simply told to stop caring so much. (even though they'll care about Batman doing it)
Second reason is the movies are so dull and the characters so inexistant that you're not even able to figure out who they are as people.

It's basically dumbed down to "robots. They fight".

>>87885405
Optimus is supposed to be reluctant to kill, while Grimlock is the one who gives no fucks and kills easily.

Movie Optimus is Michael Bay's notion of heroism.

>>87884846
Why is it so fucking hard to understand that different characters mean different things.

>>87885405
>It's basically dumbed down to "robots. They fight".
Dude, it's right there in the fucking theme song.
>Autobots wage their battle to destroy the evil forces of the Decepticons
>wage battle to destroy
Everybody went into this knowing that yeah, Optimus is going to turn his enemies into scrap.

>>87884846
Geez, m8. They're only robots. You're talking about them like they were people.

>>87885405
This. The knowledge general audiences have for an IP varies and Superman/Batman´s mythos is way more popular than Transformers´s.

For example, not getting this was what made Dragon ball evolution be a thing in the first place, and bomb, but in an opposite way (people were actually aware of the actual DB, yet the movie was approached with even more freedom than most super hero movies or transformers).

>>87884846
>he offered a truce
>"All I want is to be back in charge..."

Megatron was full of shit and you know it

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Why do people whine when Superman or Optimus Prime are forced to kill but don't bat an eye when Kenshiro nonchalantly murders and mutilates his enemies.

>>87884846
I take it you aren't a Transformers fan, because fucking everybody hates everything about the Bay movies. Everything people complain about BvS doing is amped up a thousand times over in Bayformers. They're not only the worst part of the entire Transformers franchise, but also four of the worst movies ever made by human hands.

The only people who even remotely have anything positive to say about them are contratians who like them because they shit on the franchise. Everybody else wants Bay and his family beheaded.

>>87884846
Bay formers were an abortion from the outset.

DCEU/Batmobile try to be faithful and fail hilariously

>>87887439
Holy shit, this. Michael Bay has a fucked up notion of right and wrong, and thinks that to be good you have to murder indiscriminately. He thinks heroes have to be brooding badasses who are fucked up by war.

Funny think is Zack Snyder and Michael Bay went to the same film school, which explains a lot. Bayformers Prime is basically Snyder's Rorschach if he didn't die at the end.

>>87890506
Kenshiro lives in a post apocalypse with no more laws and civilization

>>87884846
Optimus was always ready to kill, he was going to kill Megatron in the G1 movie too

>>87890740
>I take it you aren't a Transformers fan, because fucking everybody hates everything about the Bay movies. Everything people complain about BvS doing is amped up a thousand times over in Bayformers. They're not only the worst part of the entire Transformers franchise, but also four of the worst movies ever made by human hands.

Not really. I find that most of the people who hold this opinion are casual TF fans or "nostalgic fans" like your Doug Walkers of the world, who don't know anything about TF other than the fact that it existed in the 80s and like to scream "CHILDHOOD RUINED" despite the franchise never meaning much to them to begin with since they never followed it throughout the years

For people who have been following all TF media over the years, through the 90s and 00s and up till now, Bayformers is not great but it's hardly as bad as people make it out to be, anybody who had to live through the "kiddy anime" period of TF knows this to be true

And people forget that the first TF movie wasn't hated much at all critically...it was a generic blockbuster, but not a bad one by those standards....a lot of the hatred came with Revenge of the Fallen, which to this day is the worst film in the series admittedly and none of them are exactly "good", but can be entertaining in their own way

>>87887511
Except that's wrong you fucking moron. On MULTIPLE occasions Optimus tried to do whatever he could to end the war peacefully, like getting Megatron into one-on-one duels to force a truce. Optimus looked for peace to a fault.

>>87884846
I do, but theres so much fucking wrong with Bayformers that I cant bring myself to get mad anymore. Its just a shit incarnation, nothing more

Heres the thing about Optimus, hes a soldier, a leader who will kill because the war forces his hand to. But even then, Optimus always showed restraint if there was a better way. Why? Because he didnt want to be like the Decepticons, and more importantly, he didnt want to accelerate the extinction of his own race. Bay Optimus is just an asshole

>>87884846
>Why do people whine when Superman or Batman are forced to kill but don't bat an eye when Optimus Prime nonchalantly murders and mutilates his enemies to the point of decapitating his archenemy even after he offered a truce?
...but people DO bitch about that.

>>87885405
TRUTH.

GIVE
ME
YOUR
FACE

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>>87890899
Aaand there it is.

>Bayformers is actually good and only fucking nostalgiafags think otherwise!

Like fucking clockwork.

>>87889140
But the movie actually ended with a truce originally, until Bay decided that wasn't "final" or "badass" enough, so he killed Megatron off... so he could fucking bring him back again... so he could do absolutely nothing yet again.

>>87884846
They did complain. Don't remember "GIVE ME YOUR FACE" shitstorm?

>>87887439
>Optimus is supposed to be reluctant to kill, while Grimlock is the one who gives no fucks and kills easily.
That's why I was so shocked that he gave Grimlock practically NOTHING to do in AoE. Grimlock speaks and behaves like Michael Bay's unfiltered id! You would think we'd at least get a "ME GRIMLOCK - BADASS!" in there.

>>87890899
There have been numerous interpretations of TF's that I willing to give you some credit, however it still doesnt excuse Bay's shit incarnation

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>>87884846
Why do people whine when Superman or Batman are forced to kill but don't bat an eye when Light nonchalantly murders his enemies?

>>87890506
I do bitch about that, but not because of moral reasons - I just think it sucks the tension out of the series. Maybe it gets better later, but so far every episode I've seen is just 20 minutes of the villains raping and pillaging with Ken barely lifting a finger, and THEN in the last 2 minutes he makes them explode with his pinky toe or whatever the fuck. What's the point?

>>87891079
And the flames. And the farting robot. And the nigger robots.

Nothing about the Bay movies has had a positive reception except the toylines due to their higher budget, and even those are hit-and-miss due to god-awful designs. The movies have just been going on so long that most fans ignore them, and the domestic box office take keeps dropping for each movie.

It's not like we can force chinamen not to go see it, so we all have to suffer with through a half-assed ugly toyline every couple years. We can only hope Trump kills the Chinese economy and ends our long national nightmare.

>>87890878
Context is key. Megatron had just led an attack that killed untold Autobots, including some of Optimus' oldest friends. Megatron didn't even join in the human-killing revelry in DoTM - he just sat in an alley rusting, content that "Cybertron is safe."

>>87884846

Because nobody *ever* expected anything of value from Michael Bay. Optimus being a militaristic turbocunt is basically just fulfilling expectations.

By comparison, people were actually hoping for something decent with Man of steel.

>>87884846

Because mainstream audiences are only transformers fans in the fairweather sense.

>>87891079

I don't remember that. I browsed many reviews and forums after revenge of the fallen and most called it badass. Only the minority thought it was a betrayal of the character.

A lot of people have decided the constant "I'll kill you" and "He's going to die" in AoE was too much, but it's kind of too late at this point.

>>87890899
They are not entertaining AT ALL. They fail at basic filmmaking. The characters are impossible to differentiate from one another and appear and disappear at random. Toilet humor is thrown in to please the Chinese, and everything else is either an overly expensive CGI fart, shamelessly jerking off the US military, or humans doing nothing of consequence.

There are no redeeming qualities. They are considered the gravestone of cinema for a reason.

>>87891222
People DID complain, and honestly, I think they deliberately increase those things in the sequels just to troll the complainers.

>Oh, you didn't like Optimus ripping off the Fallen's face? Well FUCK YOU, I JUST REWROTE THE SCRIPT SO HE DECAPITATES SHOCKWAVE *AND* MEGATRON!

>Oh, you didn't like Peter Cullen's Optimus snarling lines like "KILL HIM!" or "I'LL KILL YOU!" or "WE WILL KILL THEM ALL"? Well FUCK YOU, NOW *EVERY AUTOBOT IN AOE LOUDLY DECLARES THEIR DESIRE TO KILL ALL THE FUCKING TIME*

>>87884846

1) Many people disavow Bay-Optimus' behaviour as a perversion of the character's nature.
2) Even so, Optimus is the supreme commander of one of two parties in a war that has been going on for thousands of years. He is a warrior, not a super hero.

>>87891060
>>Bayformers is actually good and only fucking nostalgiafags think otherwise!

Not what I said at all, I'm actually saying that fake nostalgia fags are the ones who act like it's the first time Transformers hasn't been great....it isn't, and if you ask me I suffered worse shit in the 00s at the hands of the fucking Japanese than I did with Bayformers, which in the end did the brand good (something only real fans can care about) by bringing in TONS of money to Hasbro, but people who don't think of TF as anything but "that old 80s show that I remember watching like two episodes of" aren't real TF fans, even though they like to pretend they are... I'm actually accused of being a "geewunner" constantly simply because I actually like G1, I am however not a "nostalgia fag", I watched and still watch G1 on a fairly regular basis, the original movie is my favorite movie of all time, and I continued to watch tf shows from Beast Wars, Beast Machines, RID, Armada, Cybertron, Energon, Animated, Prime, and everything else.....I'm the farthest thing from a "geewunner" and I'm also the farthest thing from somebody who hates fans of G1, since I am a big one

Secondly, in my very post I said the movies aren't particularly "good", you non reading jerkoff

>>87891111
It's the summer family blockbuster movie incarnation....is that a great thing? No, but if I'm being honest with you I see no real difference between Bayformers and most MCU movies, it's just a CGI heavy generic series of popcorn flicks and I even re watch them every now and again, just like I continue to watch shitty MCU flicks

2 is still the worst though

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>>87891460

>>87890837
I've been saying it for years, Zack Snyder and Michael Bay share one mind.

>>87884846
Because Punished Prime is tired of everything, he trusted human, saved their planet and they lied to him, Decepticons still cause problem and only a fool would trust Megatron.

He was ready to sacrifice himself in the first movie, in the second one he worked with the humans to hunt other people of his species and in the third one it turned out he got played all along.

>>87891460
Saying the TF movies and MCU are one the same level is just plain wrong. MCU movies are dumb fun summer movies I admit, but TFs are horrendous. Theyre not even characters, just walking talking props with the same depth as smashing action figures together for 2 hours.

>>87891188
The only reason Megatron sat around in DOTM was because he was half dead. The Decepticons were still under his orders and following Sentinel's plan. He's still responsible.

And there's the thousands of innocent deaths he caused in the last two movies too. But I guess Optimus should just ignore that.

>>87884846
You know, they might be bad movies but I have to give DOTM credit for not doing the whole "Good guy can't kill mass murdering bad after beating him 'cause he's the good guy. BUT WAIT the bad guy has grabbed a gun as soon as the good guy turned his back! That makes it okay to kill him now!"

>>87891584
>Saying the TF movies and MCU are one the same level is just plain wrong. MCU movies are dumb fun summer movies I admit, but TFs are horrendous. Theyre not even characters, just walking talking props with the same depth as smashing action figures together for 2 hours.

Well, to me MCU characters aren't even characters....they're just walking talking quip machines with the same depth as reading a Jewish person's joke list for a talk show host

>>87891074
Yes, and it was a horrible idea.

It's like prolonging an already 1000 year war. Think about it, Megatron already backstabbed him figuratively and literally, and Prime's had enough shit from Sentinel doing that to him too.

>>87891255
>Gravestone of the cinema

There are worse films. TF gets more shit because it earned a lot of money and ire at the same time. Bay gets too much shit being accused of being the worst director when really he's competent enough to actually make bad movies and get a return to make his passion projects.

>>87890900
Different incarnations, mate. The fact that the whole them of Transformers besides robots is WAR, one would expect death on both sides. You can't possibly expect the old Optimus to be bloodthirsty in a children's cartoon the same way the new Optimus should be 100% Captain America over enemies who were written to be monsters.

>>87893576
So here's the problem: they wrote a story where they wanted their hero had to be a psychotic murderer, then slapped the Transformers name on it.

If you made a Romeo and Juliet adaptation, and in the end they don't die, you've made a bad Romeo and Juliet adaptation.

Bayformers is a bad Transformers adaptation. It isn't just "different," it's wrong.

>>87893645
>Bayformers is a bad Transformers adaptation
I agree and disagree to a degree.

Like, it's not completely bad as a movie (the first one) but it lacked quite a lot in terms of the Transformers themselves to be characters. It revolved around the mythos but in the end it was still the humans being aided by the robots, not the other way around.

However when it came to Optimus Prime's characterization (in the third), I rather liked it as a way to differentiate him from the already stagnating trope of a leader mentor who can't do wrong in terms of G1 incarnation and his Prime incarnation. It won't appeal to everyone but Murdercock Prime being a tired warrior from a planet full of, hinted in the first movie, war-thirsty soldiers. It's expected that the culture of Cybertonians is different from the older incarnations.

>>87891992
I though the same thing as well. Him executing them like that was a pleasant surprise. You can't say Bay's Optimus isn't consistent.

>>87894701
He's even more unhinged in 4. His first line is literally "KILL YOU!!! I'LL KILL YOU ALL!!!"

Also at the end he breaks his vow to never again kill a human, that he made earlier in the movie, by blowing away Kelsey Grammar with his arm cannon.

>>87887512
They are meant to be people.

That's why Bay's movies are shit; the robots are supposed to be everymen.

>>87884846
>Original plan was for Optimus to spare Megatron and agree to an alliance
>Tie-in material was written to lead up to that moment at the climax
>Late in production, Bay says "nah, that's not badass enough, let's have him murder the fucker"
Fuck.

Because this is an Optimus who's had enough.

His planet is dead, his species is endangered, and humans keep lying and fucking him over. He has no tolerance for shit anymore.

For all we know, G1 Optimus was a few years from acting the exact same way.

>>87894863
Fuck off and die, Boco.

>>87894824

>Despite the obvious, people still lay all the blame for these movies on the writers
>He most likely to a shit on the script for TF5 made by the writers room

He can't keep getting away with this!

>>87894882

Nah, you first.

>>87894824
Bay was really blood thirsty at that point in his career so I can see him saying , "Nah, fuck that." He even had the robots bleed red oil so it looked like blood, almost as if he wished he was shooting real humans getting their limbs torn off. Sure enough his next movie was Pain N Gain.

>>87894824
that's what happens when you put a right wing director in charge

>>87895074
Please don't.

>>87895055

Don't forget how he (gleefully) had the three female Autobots in RotF killed off because "he hated them".

>>87890740
>The only people who even remotely have anything positive to say about them are contratians

Or just your plain non-fan mass audience, who don't care about the complaints as long as they get to watch fancy CGI work and Baysplosions. Or to use buzzwords, normie pleb scum.

This is only my personal experience, but almost everyone I talked to about these movies just dismissed me as a close minded fanboy or a pompous film critic when I spoke of them negatively. They loved the movies, robo-balls and dog fucking included, and that's how they keep making so much money.

>>87895127
I want to kill Michael Bay.

>>87895786

While I do not condone murder, I doubt anyone would stop you.

>>87895774
Except they don't. Every movie does worse than the last, except with the idiot Chinese.

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>>87884846
This is why you will lose Autobots. You lunch your leaders for taking the appropriate steps to victory

And why Megatron will win

context is different

superheroes are generally not expected to kill, and most supers agree with that statement. even those that do kill do so in the name of law enforcement, their goal is to maintain order

optimus has never said he doesnt kill, even the 80s show managed to show him popping a cap when the writers were allowed to show violence. he is also a soldier and war veteran, his job isnt to catch criminals, its to fight a war and killing is to be expected. that being said, optimus does his best not to be an ass, he only shows no mercy to the decepticons, because they have already shown to be beyond reason, prime is actually a bit of a soft touch when not fighting decepticons

>>87884846
Have you seen those long-term Transformers hardcore fans?
They're even sadder then comic book ones can get, which is saying something. Constantly collecting toys, obsessed with watching and re-watching shows from the 90's with remarkably childish dialogue and humor, totally oblivious to how depressing they look, etc.

It's not so much as they don't get mad, it's just they hardly even count as human beings even when present and voicing their opinions.

>>87896331
Hm.

And just what, pray tell, makes you so superior to them, fellow user of 4chan, asshole of the Internet?

>>87896385
Nobody's superior to anybody here.
I have a solid friend who's one of these types, and it's just kinda sad how wrapped up he is into this sorta stuff, and only recently have I been given perspective about how crazy it is. Like, I read classic comics and enjoy the fuck out of superheroes and western animation, but I have time for stuff OTHER then that in my life, you know?

Chances are most of the types of folks I'm talking about don't even go to 4chan; it's not exclusively Transformer's focused enough for their type of interest.

>>87896331
Yeah the TF fandom has some of the most bitter and angry autists out there who are ready to declare war over the most insignificant things, which is why I thought this thread was b8.