What defines BAD animation?

>>87838532
It's made in Japan.

>>87838532
Being western.

>>87838532
If Amerifats make it.

NuPPG

My personal definition is when it looks cheap and mass produced. When you can tell that they've cut corners everywhere and theres no heart to it. Choppy motion, recycled frames, slow pans of still shots, twitching and jiggling, interchangeable character design - basically all the qualities that make anime what it is. They care more about getting it done as quick as possible. They dont care about making it look good.

>>87838532
When they have to use whipcracks to cover it up.

>>87838532
Hide and report /a/ spam.

Reminder that weebs are basically bronies.

this is rather subjective, since this is the internet and nothing is sacred

there are no definitive examples, its easy to find someone who likes a certain show, even an unpopular one, even if only as a guilty pleasure

there are a few that are beyond the defence of all but the darkest regions of society
>the nutshack
>allen gregory
>bordertown
these shows share a few traits
>choppy or poor animation
>shock value
>racist /sexist stereotypes
>characters seen as highly unsympathetic or even villainous

now, while just one of these is not enough to doom a show, having all of these, and plenty more, combined make them the absolute bottom of the barrel

if you do happen to like these, then there is nothing i can do or say to change your opinion

>>87838586
God, I loved Mega Manlets growing up.

>>87838532
>Make one well drawn frame
>Have it on screen for 30 seconds while people offscreen talk
>Call it animation

>>87838532
Such blatant padding to meet time slot. What shit anime is this from? Do Western animators ever do shit like this to meet expected time?

>>87838656
Bronies are better.

>>87838702
Seth McFarlan does it all the time

>>87838702
>OVA
>Meet time slot
>character trying to adjust to losing an arm is 'just padding'
i'm takin the b8

>>87838532
For me most anime isn't bad at a technical level, a lot of it is downright gorgeous, what I find to be painful is that they overstuff each frame and second with so much detail or movement that we can't see what's going on half the time. For me that constitutes one definition of 'bad'.

>>87838532
If you can't tell what's going on with the sound muted it's fucking SHIT.

The quality of any work is measured by how effective it is... Is it convincing? Does it communicate what it's suppose to? Does it entertain?

You could have some of the most realistic, beautiful and fluid motion in the world, but if it doesn't convey any of the things it was suppose to and doesn't make the audience feel anything then the effort is wasted. Likewise, you can have unrealistic, minimalistic and jumpy animation that just screams personality and hits every note it needs to.

Quality is not defined by technique alone, since any technique when used well can be effective. What defines bad animation is when instead of adding to a scene, it actually detracts from it.

>>87838532
incomprehensibility

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Something so shoddy that it defies any sort of suspension of disbeliefe.

Something you can look at and say with confidence:

>this should not look like this
>this has fuckall to do with style, this looks like shit

>>87838972
this is amazing

>>87838792
Lack of detail is a defining quality of anime. You are completely wrong.

>>87838972
You posted a terrible example, everybody can understand what's happening in that clip

>>87839036
You've horribly misinterpreted what I said.

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This is bad animation.

>>87839081
Scarlett Johansson is going to ruin GITS forever

T-Thanks for nothing

>>87838792
this reminds me of /a/'s "forced animation" meme

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>>87838757
/co/ is just stupid and has an inferiority complex wirh anime.

>>87839125
I have no idea what that is.

>>87839130
none of their eyes are even aligned properly, super is so trash

>>87839148
I think it's just to troll SHAFT stuff.

>>87839130
>le Zamasu sky wallpaper

Top fucking kek

>>87839130
man Toriyama's style really doesn't work in modern animation.

>>87839030
Increasing amounts of detail is actually a problem in the industry these days. Even veteran animators have complained about modern character designs being a pain to animate and they would rather have more animation-friendly designs that allows animators to create more movement instead.

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>>87839107
>implying it's not already ruined
Hopefully can't be worse than the crap that is pic related.

>>87839223
It has nothing to do with modern animation. The drawings in that shot are simply off-model.

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Why don't western cartoons use dramatic shading?

>>87839282
That looks awful.

>>87839296
It looks good though.

>>87839327
nah

>>87839282
They do, but not as often.

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>>87839258

>>87839148
More than likely a misinterpretation of the actual mistake of over-animating a scene.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1cHAzKta9w

>>87839130
>tfw even fucking Pokemon has better animation than DBS now.

Here's a link to the opposite thread from yesterday.

>>87804896

>>87839135
Nah. It's just individual ignorant people who shout the loudest. Check this thread to see what I mean.

>>87804896

Why don't the Japanese just guest animate for all western cartoons?

>>87838532
I've seen this movie so I know what's going on.

Are people not realizing what's going on?

>>87838532
asking /co/ what makes good animation is like asking /pol/ what makes a good politician. Even people like Dodson actually have better knowledge of animation than /co/.

>>87840079
Hey Dodson
WE GOT DODSON HERE

Nobody cares

>>87840078
it's a stretched out scene of something completely fucking mundane

>>87840078
Has nothing to do with that. It's animated like shit. There is very little sense of weight or proper momentum here. The way she moves is robotic and very inhuman.

>>87840115
>it's a stretched out scene of something completely fucking mundane
This is why no one tries to be subtle anymore.

>>87840115
The story gives context as to why her eating a shitty ice-cream is important.

>>87840145
Well she is kind of, err, abnormal.

>>87840115
Having one arm makes everything like that

>>87838532
It depends on where it originated and what style it uses. Japanese animation uses fewer in between frames and relies more on smears to show an action being performed. Western animation uses a lot more in between frames and relies more on smooth movements throughout an entire action.
The difference is a shot by shot scene of an olympic sprinter and a humming bird being filmed.
Both are valid and I think it only fails when it tries too much to ape the other's style.
Tldr western is more static while having smoother animation because of it and japanese animation is more free flowing because of using smear frames to fill in in between frames.

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>>87839148

I believe the worst thing animation can be is ineffective. When the illusion is broken and you become aware that you are watching a production, rather than being involved or enthralled in the story and visuals, it has failed in what it set out to do. The style and the overall quality are usually more subjective (with the exception of technical flaws), that they work for the story playing out is all the really matters.

>>87839282

Most American cartoons don't have the kind of dramatic moments that would benefit from the technique.

>>87839258
what in the ghost in the shell universe is actually worth checking out, I've watched the 1995 film a million times, and then I watched all of ARISE and it was... fine.. are the original manga worth picking up?

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>>87841450
>not watching SAC

>>87841450
Gits: Innocence is on par with the original.The old tv series is good too, especially season 2.

I dropped Arise after 1 or 2 episodes.

>>87838532
1.If the motion doesn't look silky smooth
2.If the actions don't make sense
3.If you choreograph it horribly

>>87841478
Call me an idiot, but I actually liked SAC more than the original movie.

>>87840115
You are the reason why we can't have subtle scenes and must have everyone either announce everything or explain everything through exposition. You fucking ignoramous

I was watching some of the old Superman cartoons the other day, and it was a little jarring just how much more animated and less static the characters were. Even with the simple style, backgrounds moved, clothes creased, people moved more than one part of their bodies at a time.

>>87841809
Don't get me started on the 'narrators' that have started popping up in animes. That shit is getting out of hand.

>>87841511
arise episode 2 was nonsense. the fourth one which was a movie here in the USA was okay, there are some cool concepts. I honestly couldn't tell you what Arise was even about actually fuck arise.

>>87841826
The god-tier '40s ones?

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>>87841809
I bet you think garbage like Angel's Egg is good if you like shit with no dialogue

>>87841951
No, the Bruce Timm one, Koko/Dong Yang episodes to be precise.

>>87842040
>garbage like Angel's Egg
>Angel's Egg
>garbage
Infidel

>>87842069
Tell me more?

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>>87842069
>1996
>old
yeah, ok

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This is good animation.

>>87842253
It's 20 years old, it's OLD.
>>87842151
In short.

TAC/Jade = the truly bad studio (since Jade was the one doing all the work) on Superman:TAS.

Koko/Dong Yang = passable at best, not as bad as Akom but you could do alot better.

TMS = God tier, nuff said.

>>87842507
Better then Voltron:LD thats for sure.

>>87839223
It's just sloppy art. None of them are on model.

>>87842543
Anything is better than the animation by Mir.

>>87842551
No you are thinking of Glen Kennedy.

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>>87842516
>It's 20 years old, it's OLD.
Goodbye, Anon. I loved you.

>>87842567
I know, see >>87842100

>>87842594
He was asking about the Bruce Timm show after all.

>>87842507
They were never really on model though.

>>87842593
What are you talking about? He said the art style doesn't translate to modern animation and I said it's because the drawings themselves are bad due to being off model

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>>87839135

Well if Weaboos wont come here posting anime reaction faces and telling us cartoon girls are fugly it would be different.

>>87838729
>>87838656
>website created to discuss anime
>people who are tumblr light insulting anime

What kind of retardation is this?

>>87838532
it barely moves

>>87838532
Willfully ignoring the basic principles of animation is a good start.

>>87838586
Poor staging.
No sense of timing.
Bad drawings that lose mass.
Dead-stops, showing a complete disregard for weight.

Yeah, classically shit.


>>87838972
This pretty much.

Style means nothing if suspension of disbelief is broken.

>>87839664
That's because Nintendo is really big on quality control for that.

>>87840874
Tweens. It feels like tweens. It's smooth, but feels a little over animated (surprisingly that is a thing). I guess that's the joke?

>>87841863
That is pretty shitty.

>>87838532

Anything made by Canada and Calarts.

Spiderman trying to open a fucking window

>>87843178
Canada used to make good animation, but now we just make stuff on par with someone from the early 2000's who was good at using Flash.

>>87842889
Nobody fucking cares and you are on a non-weeb board. The only reason to bring up 4chan being founded by weebs is to BTFO out of storm-niggers who like to claim 4chan was always right wing

Outside of that, there is no reason to post weeb shit. Please try and talk about Manga on /lit/ and see how that goes.

>>87839258
>take Gits
>reinvent the major for the kawaii uguu waifu crowd and make half the show about how her day is going
>also she's robot Jesus now
Arise isn't really as terrible as it should be, but it's still pretty dumb.

>>87844075
Sound ass, but to be fair SAC Major is stiff, distant, and difficult to give a shit about. Tough slate for a series lead.

>>87840874
>BAH BAH BAH BAH BAH

>>87838623
I think there was heart to it ones but it japs have lost it long time ago

>>87838972
>Ant-Man cosplays The Rhino

>>87838656
>being this mad at anime in 4chan

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Remember when Japanese animators tried to make a Western cartoon and it bombed miserably and everyone hated it?

>>87844105
That's why the other movies and series are always putting Togusa and Batou front and center for most of the run-time.
Creating a show that's almost entirely told from The Major's perspective is missing the point hard.

It's like when the comedy-sidekick gets their own spin-off movie only for everyone to realise that he isn't as funny when he actually has to carry his own plot. Turns out all the boring serious characters were actually in the original movie for a reason.

>>87842810
So now it is wrong to post anime reaction images?

Fucking newfags

>>87844105
The fact that she is those things is what made SAC great. It was a product of its time trying to revamp it for now just does a fucking disservice. Its the problem with the Jem movie and comic. You either treat it like it should be or you don't touch it at all. All you do is piss the fans of the product.

>>87844054
>non weeb board
Nah there is alot weebs here

>>87844216
No, when did that ever happen?

>>87844343
This.

There's a large number of people here intelligent enough to realize that there's actually no difference between /co/ and /a/, it's all the same shit.

>>87844531
Well maybe in japan?

>>87844075
I liked it a lot. It's not as good as SAC but the young Major felt okay to me, it's just a younger version of the character, and you can feel that she is different from who she is in SAC or the movies. I was more interested in the constitution of the team than the main plot though.

>>87844216
No. Shit was widely loved.

>>87844875
Even in japan? I though otakus hated sluts in their anime

>>87838532
Super cinematic framerate

>>87841639
Nah, SAC does a much better job of developing the characters as humans, but it does have the advantage of being a full-length series to do that.
Its story is also much more of a police procedural following crimes that are borne of the technological advances in the universe. And, unlike the movies, doesn't have the director plonking you down to monologue his philosophy at you, which he tends to do in most of his movies if he's not kept on a leash.

>>87845112
They do, but P&SwG is such an out-and-out comedy that Panty's sluttiness is the least of their concern. It was pretty damn big back when it was airing, not least because it was from Gainax.

>>87839081
Why do machines need nippers?

>>87841856
Especially since they feel the need to narrate what happens on screen as it happens and then later flash back to that scene within the same episode.

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>>87845262
The best part of PSG was watching it ruin Christmas.

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Bad timing is the #1 culprit for ugly animation. Japanese animators obsess about rendering and over-shading but they never bother with timing, so everything MOVES like shit.

>>87845271
Her body may be military grade, but the exterior is a standard production model(she sees at least one other model of her body during her boat ride) that would have been made to be full anatomically correct since, ya know, Japan wants to fuck robots and all.

>>87845320
Right? The fucking best.

>it's nice that we're getting a sequel
Still hurts.

>>87843157
>Nintendo
TPC
And yet TPCi gives no shits about dub quality.

>>87845357
Are you saying you DON'T want to fuck a robot?

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This is a real example of bad animation. I have no idea why people like Bahi's work.

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>>87845341
Older Jap animators actually studied the basics. The new crew grew up watching nothing but anime and have no experience of animation of popular culture(and hardly experience of ANY culture, period) outside of anime. The entire industry is just becoming more of an inbred mess than a remote village in the Appalachians.
One of the things I loathe that's becoming popular in Japan is how motion is being handled. In order to make motion smooth, it goes wildly off-model and some take it to the point that characters become indistinct blobs that just happen to me moving quickly and that's supposed to be acceptable. Just look at the Naruto/Pain fight.
Proponents of this shit try to call it squash and stretch. They don't know what real squash and stretch is. Pic related is S&S done right from Japs.

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More classic squash and stretch

>>87845482
Don't use modern Toei as a judge of animation in Japan.

>>87845544
Toei is a good animation studio though.
He's talking about garbage studios like White Fox.

>>87845565
Which is why I specified modern Toei
They're responsible for DBS and Sailor Moon Crystal after all.

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>>87845653
Crystal is a fucking tragedy, but good proof why the old anime was better than the manga, especially in terms of pacing.

Is it true that some japanese studios (like Disney Japan's animation studio) hated working on a lot of western cartoons because of style that the show was supposed to be animated in? Or did they not care at all?

>>87845441
why is every character and the camera shaky/bouncy?

>>87845849
Most didn't care. Working on Western cartoons just meant more ramen noodles than regular Jap cartoons.

>>87845901
Attempt to hide lowered framerate I reckon?

>>87840078

Any person of average intellect should be able to figure out that the girl is struggling to eat something from a cup and can't use her left arm for some reason.

>>87838661
the walk cycle in THE nutshack is ridiculous

>>87844216
If you were talking about PaSwG, pretty much everyone loved that shit. People were pissed as hell and continued to scream for a second season well over a year after the finale premiered. Hell, it's still a thing.

>>87846847
>If you were talking about PaSwG, pretty much everyone loved that shit.

A loud minority loved it and everybody else took one look at it, turned 360 degrees and moonwalked away.

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>>87845482
I think the Pain / Naruto fight was kinda justified, since Pain was controlling what was basically a corpse being controlled by metal telekinesis rods jammed into their ligaments. The face was bound to stretch when being flung at an incredibly high speed with little to no actual muscle stabilization. I do agree that the animation coulda' been done a lot better, but I kinda think at least that one was a pass due to the fact that it was supposed to be a really fast paced and intense moment, along with the aforementioned. Of course, there was a some frames where it over-emphasized on the fact he was going fast as fuck; but I think that was the whole point of over-emphasizing it in the first place. If it weren't on those lines, I would have to agree with you.

>>87845526
Give me the name, right fucking now.

>>87847120
Baki the Grappler OVA
Which was translated as Grappler Baki in '94.
https://bakabt.me/torrent/164848/grappler-baki-the-ultimate-fighter-xvid

>>87845283
Yeah man. A big culprit would probably be things like Mob Psycho, or Hunter x Hunter. It just kinda cut the mood in a lot of things when they either panned out and started narrating instead of showing what happened; or randomly narrating in the middle of showing what's currently happening because some people can't understand subtleties.

Hunter x Hunter spoiler : A good example would be when Killua was talking Gon out of killing Pitou before she could heal Komugi.

Mob Psycho 100 spoiler : Another good example would be when Mob temporarily transferred his powers to Reigen. That shit pissed me off. I felt like the whole point was to slowly realize what's happening. Not to just get "THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED IF YOU DIDN'T ALREADY UNDERSTAND WITHIN THE 30 SECONDS OF SHOWING IT!". I did like the whole 'Mob was feeling quite refreshed now" though.

>>87846881
Dunno where you were looking, mate. That "loud minority" met limited opposition, unless we're talking dub.

>>87844563
but in different boards :^)

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Japs add directing to their works, which is how they managed, and still manage, to trick a generation-ful of weeaboos into thinking their stuff is more fluid and looks better than western cartoons, which most usually have mediocre animation, rounded artstyles and flat directing.

>>87847228
Anon he was talking to here. I was there during the whole ride, and I gotta say that the 'minority' had to be the people who hated it due to 'fanservice'; and believe me, they were vocal about it.. Even though that was kind of the whole joke in the first place. Not only that, but the dub is pretty fucking amazing. Honestly one of the only Dubs I'd watch over Subs.

>>87847319
Is that mech playing DDR?

>>87847340
Yeah, I was there too. I meant as in if only a vocal minority loved it, the majority were pretty quiet about it and the minority was very vocal.

>Honestly one of the only Dubs I'd watch over Subs.
I can't say as I'm a fan, but maybe I just didn't give it a fair chance.

>>87847428
Yeah, I agree. Was just justifying your point even more by saying that.

As for the dub, they really outdid themselves; and I highly suggest you give it another chance. Fucking Garterbelt out of everyone sounds the most amazing (even though everyone else sounds amazing, my #1 is garterbelt), Panty sounds amazing, Stocking sounds amazing, Brief sounds amazing. Just everyone in the show all around, sounds like they fit their character down to the bone; and pulled it off really satisfyingly. I mean even the demon sisters dad sounds like he's actually crazy as hell. Even the ghosts do too, especially the one that could take over different vehicles.

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can we ever go back?

>>87838532
Anything you like that I don't.

>>87847280
>in
Are you a termite or something?

>>87838532
Putting too much effort into the wrong things and not enough into the right things.

>>87847574
>especially the one that could take over different vehicles.
This nigga sounds fucking dope. Stocking sounds kind of annoying, but you're right, everyone else sounds pretty great. Guess I'll be giving this another go after all. Cheers nigga!

>>87838532
Sauce on this?

>>87845271
She's a sex maniac. Really.

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>>87845526
Fuck, I wish Baki got more OVAs like this. Love watching shit like this from time to time.

>>87845271
If you're going to be a cyborg that interacts with people, it's best to have the least off-putting body possible.

>>87838545
fun fact
9/10 of your favorite shows are animated in Japan

>>87847871
Yeah, stocking sounds kind of annoying off the bat; but it grows on you after a bit. Not to mention she's supposed to be the stereotypical 'gothy' and 'upset' one who takes her emotions out on hugging her stuffed animal.

>>87848038
This whole scene was amazing.

>>87848038
why is the framerate so high

>>87838532
roterscoping
flash
reusing the same shit over and over
coloring errors

>>87849815
there is literally nothing wrong about rotoscoping

>>87841450
Stand Alone Complex. All of it. The music, the animation, the plot and Voice acting.

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>>87847216
I notice this trend of being so frank and painfully obvious is most prominent in their humor. So much of it is straightman humor that relies on one person strongly reacting to a joke along with the audience.
>X does something silly/stupid or has a misunderstanding
>Y observes their idiocy in awe/surprise and verbally explains/questions it
>Or Y screams at X for being dumb/reckless/whatever

I think that form of joke execution is some kind of classic in Japan, not sure, but it's so extremely on the nose that it feels like antihumor. It doesn't completely turn me off from the joke but observing it so constantly gets grating.

My biggest example might be One Piece with how every other panel is some character screaming with their eyes bulging like mad in reaction to some silly, insignificantly small action. Pic related is widely known for his unique reaction. I just dont get it sometimes. No such thing as a clever jome if you spell it all out a second later. The impact dies.

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Japanese animation is just so artificial and lifeless compared to Western. The exaggerated colors don't fool me.

>>87848038
Obi wan was basically toying with this guy in the movie, these jedi are so useless.

>>87850870
>The exaggerated colors don't fool me.
The shaking camera too. It has its use sometimes, but it's often overdone.

>>87850870
That's just an issue with Ufotable and their garbage Type/Moon series.

>>87850870
Eh Ufotable are just animation hacks. Weebs consider that shit ""'amazing animation""" anyway.

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>>87847916

>>87851183
>>87851179
What's wrong with that animation?

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>>87851285
I'm no animation expert but I can see how they trick the eye. Ufotable shows barely have any in-betweens, they hide it with shaky cam, digital special effects and fast movements between each keyframe. There's always movement going on, just not 2D character animation.

>>87845271
Why do machines need skin? Why do machines need tear ducts?

>>87851183
>>87851179
It's baffling and enraging people consider Kara no Kyoukai one of the greatest looking anime of all time.

I mean look at OP, it's awful.

>>87851368
Special effects are still part of the animation

>>87841450
GITS Manga
Ghost in the Shell 2 is a Masterpiece
The first movie
SAC

>>87851518
Just newshits that don't know how animation works.

>>87851538
Yes and camera pans are technically also animation. What I and every sakuga/animation fan mean by animation is 2D, hand drawn animation.

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>>87851183
That's because there's retards that think visuals mean animation.

I've seen A LOT of people watching at a pretty background and saying
>dat animatioooooon xD


>>87851518
Kara no Kyoukai looks beautiful, you don't need top tier animation for something to look good. Thing is why people mock sakugafags.

You're retarded.

>>87851598
3D movies are not animation I guess.

>>87839135
MY MILKSHAKE BRINGS ALL THE BOYS TO THE YARD

>>87847629
what is this?

Your standards are too damn high. Anyone remembered the fucking Problem Solverz?

>>87851720
Second Patlabor movie I think (could be first though). They're great, go watch them.

>>87851720
>He don't know about Patlabor
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsMTpSDAGxM

>>87838972

I no rite?t Anything less than full theatrical Disney animation from the Nine Old Men, is gross, completely disgusting, and unacceptable.

>>8783913e>>87839130
Episode 66 looked amazing though

>>87851694
CG shit is a fucking abomination.

>>87851755
Yeah. Just because something is completely abhorrent doesn't mean you can't class other things as bad. Would you argue >>87838586 to be good?

>>87839282
I loved how bizarre YYH's animation could be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXVvngEkPqI

>>87850003
I kinda like how it's done in Nichijou. It seems to be the exception, maybe?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fp5CkR5qSt0

>>87851831
This can't be anime, it's too good to be anime.

Did Western animators work on it?

>>87852058
Are you memeing? Platabor 2 is from the early 90's. A time where pretty much all western animation was outsourced to Japan.

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>>87852058

>>87852016
Why is that retard recording the screen?

https://sakugabooru.com/post/show/8412/animated-artist_unknown-effects-nichijou-smoke

>>87852016
Exception to what? It's a part of humour like it is in any other culture, some shows make greater use of it than others. Shit like Osomatsu-san and Nichijou use it pretty heavily, most of the entertainment comes from people reacting to things. Other shows such as Pani-Poni Dash have humour mostly come from puns and references, or something like Tantei Opera Milky Holmes which functions off of the characters' actions in absurd situations.

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>>87852016
No, that scene is just overall exaggerated overreaction and its funny in my opinion but I meant more akin to how Beauty from Bobobo constantly makes a face to the rest of the cast acting like idiots or someone from Luffy's crew in One Piece reacting to his idiocy. I will say it manages to always be funny in Bobobo. Bobobo's fucking great.

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Fast and subtle cartoony reactions are best

>>87852521
god i hate digital animation

>>87852383
Bobobo is love

Bobobo is life

I fucking love this scene

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rokBNgbjYrM

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>>87845482
>aracters become indistinct blobs that just happen to me moving quickly and that's supposed to be acceptable.
literally every cartoon ever holy fuck you picky cucks have no brains

>>87852058
It is proper anime. IE, anything from the 90's. And is the sole reason why anime is popular, so that future animators could be painfully lazy.

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/a/ IS MAKING FUN OF US AGAIN

>>87853018
Bobobo is the fucking best
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rs-0aZv-m9A

>>87853208

bobobo is just the TTGo of the japanese peoples

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>>87853090
I believe that anon is trying to say that when an animation primarily about action/fighting needs to rely on turning characters into rubber to convey the weight and intensity of their fighting it kinda shows the animators don't actually know how to animate proper action.

Naruto vs Sasuke was an amazingly done fight compared to Naruto and Pain turning into Mr. Fantastic vs Plastic Man.

>>87853132
What thread?

>>87853409
>>>/a/150034281

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>>87845271
>Why do machines need nippers?

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>>87844216
Wrong show, People loved Tiny Toons and they did a excellent job at it.

PSG on the other hand was just WASTED TALENT.
>>87844875
No, everyone hated it because of wasted talent.
>>87845653
Blame their unit in The Philippines.
>>87845849
No, far from it, they rather do American shows as they got 10X more money then local shows.

Someone from Toei who was on both the original Dragon Ball and G.I. Joe said that he got $500 per episode on Dragon Ball when he got $5000 a episode on G.I Joe.
>>87845914
Some like TMS loved doing those American projects.

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>>87844216

I don't remember.

>>87847352
No son that's just probably Macross Delta, that happens quite often in this anime

>>87853646
I think it happened all of twice, and it really bugged me because of all the macross anime I've seen Delta by and large is one with the least amount of time the pilots make use of gerwalk and battroid mode.

>>87853503
post more tms pics pls

>>87851569
>Ghost in the Shell 2 is a Masterpiece

It's so pretentious, though. Not saying it's a bad movie. But it really felt like Oshii wanking off to pictures of himself.

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>>87854220
>>87841450
>>87851569
Oh, I was not talking about the second movie (I wanted to kill myself after all this pretentious bullshit), but about the manga:
GITS2 Man-Machine Interface

>>87845320
>Pros: Season 2 confirmed
KEK

>>87845409
Well... they are a company. They did make some interesting decisions to make the anime culture neutral to cut costs of bringing it over to the states.

Although the show is going to DXD... which means Yokai Watch is now directly competing with Pokemon with shows.

>>87845271
Why not?

>>87851134
That was Lucas version
Genndy version doesn't appear in the movies

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>>87854080
Ok then.
>>87854361
Pokemon is getting dumped on DXD because they are killing off the IP (Sun & Moon (and Stars if the rumors are true) hint at it being the end of the IP) because it's not Mario.

Expect Pikmin Switch to be a Mario game with Pikmin in it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yERIfETEGt8

There's simply no point in animation studios to it with the old gold standard unless they set the standard willingly themselves.

The money just isn't there for that kind of work, otherwise we'd still be getting Disney animated movies.

>>87854807
Don't go into business yourself. That's as much advice I can give you.

>>87854947
But TMSfag is extremely knowledgeable, dumb tripfaggot.

>>87854982
Thats not TMSGuy.

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>>87845271
Care to find out?

>>87855045
nah

>>87854935
Its also why TRIGGER studios has to crowdfund there damn movies now.

>>87838545

This to be honest.

Or any Korean/Chinese animation that mimics the anime style. Go ask any art teacher what they think of anime and they'll go on long rants about how shit it is. You can enjoy a Studio Ghibli film, but you can't deny that the best western animated movies are better animated than Spirited Away or any animated Japanese film.

>>87854336

That's also pretentious as all fuck, just by a different person. There's a reason people aren't nearly as nostalgic for MMI as GITS: it's near unreadable.

>>87855076
I can't think of any western movie better than Nausicaa or Akira.

>>87839130

holy shit, the animation is about as bad as usual for any cheaply made anime but that art is unusually atrocious.

>>87847228

You don't get a full picture of how PASWG failed if you only look at people who were mad at it existing. You need to look at the people who refused to even watch it or enter the threads with it or acknowledge its existence in any way. Like it or not, PASWG was incredibly unpopular and a huge financial failure despite having a low budget to begin with. That's why it will never get a second season.

>>87855115
I really don't think so, he was just trying something and he was really modest about it as you can see in a lot of his quotes. Feeling the concept of Technological Singularity was fucking awesome for me.

>>87855076
The western approach is great for character animation on a large budget, but the Japanese are masters at creating interesting animation that works with a lower drawing count rather than having to rely on loads of drawings like the westerners do.

>>87855115
>>87855245
I will also add that it's because MMI is unreadable that the whole concept works (the impossibility of understanding everything is the point) unlike the second movie when it's just about "look, I'm fucking smart and you don't understand anything because you don't have my knowledge".

>>87838545
This says otherwise.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYP2qLsC3x4

>>87850003
It's called manzai, it's a staple of their culture.

>>87853381

They also are both done by the same guy

>>87841450
The manga is a lot more raunchy, comedic and kind of silly compared to the movies and tv show.

>>87845698
This 19 second webm is better than anything Crystal ever did. Yes, even with the static people in the foreground. It's just so simple and yet so fluid, it's mesmerizing. I could watch this for hours. Thanks anon.

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>>87855808

Even when the animation wasn't great, Sailor Moon classic was great at utilizing it for the sake of comedy. Yes it looks goofy, but it's why the joke works.

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>>87855780
Not entirely. Both episodes had the same director and had Norio Matsumoto as one of the animators, but Naruto vs Sasuke had Matsumoto doing most of the action while he only did the later parts of the Pain fight. Much of the controversial shots from the earl parts of the fight were done by Shingo Yamashita and Kenichi Kutsuna who were up-and-coming animators at the time.

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>>87855844
Sailor Moon had good animation though.

>>87855903

Sometimes it did. You don't go 200 episodes and not get a ton of episodes that aren't up to par.

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>>87855050

>>87847629
If his robotic arm is connected to the movement of his then how'd his wrist make a full 360 rotation?

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>>87839282
Spawn did

>>87855844
>>87855903
I need to rewatch Sailor Moon. Watched those 200 episodes two years ago, it's time to watch them again.

>>87839107
>Going to watch the GitS movie
Just rewatch Stand Alone Complex and forget the Scarlett "I make the same face in every single one of my movies" Johansson remake exists.

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>>87845271

>>87855944

It's a girl. Also it's not a complete mimic function, that's just to smooth some operations. If a Labor actually tried to act entirely like a human it'd wreck itself.

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>>87845271
Does there need to be a reason?

>>87855877
The games did those scenes so much better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrs2i1norgI

>>87856036
It's alright, but I like the anime's presentation better, especially when Naruto loses control and the 4th steps in.

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> /co/ likes Naruto

does /co/ also like Bleach?

>>87849815
The Fleishcer Superman shorts were done with rotoscoping. Like, REALLY good rotoscoping cause they were the first to do it. There's nothing wrong with rotoscoping when done right.

>>87856598
Fleishcer Superman does not use rotoscoping, that was debunked.

>>87853115
>proper anime
>90s
Anon i like alot shit from 90s but anime was never great

>>87855076
I know how shit it is but do you think i care?

>>87855076
Do you just play videogames for the high end graphics?

>Western animation studios has to say put out 5-6 shows of 20 episodes per year, all probably about 11 minutes long

okay
>japan animation probably puts out 40 shows a year, all ranging from 13-26 to even all year round episodes a year, all 24 minutes long.

Boy, it's like Japan has alot more work to do.

>>87856231
sadly, I dropped the series after the first soul society arc.

>>87857679
honestly this, japan pops out alot of animation, way more so than western folks (can't be helped as cartoons is still seen as "kids" persay) so of course they will find ways to cut corners.

It's like comics vs manga

Western comics - 23 pages a month
Japanese (weekly) comics - 5 chapters a month, so about 70 pages a month.

no wonder these artists are killing themselves.

>>87838532
Why does this make me so uncomfortable.

>>87855076
Why do gooks and chinks mimic japanimation if they're supposed to hate them?

>>87857788
Because western 2D animation is dead so there's no other place to draw inspiration from.

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>>87857806
The original animated films that Japs derived their anime art style from haven't disappeared. What's stopping them from deriving their own?

>>87857898
Nothing, but contemporary stuff will be more influential especially when it's widely available. The Japs looked to the western animation of their time because that's where most animation came from and now most 2D animation is Japanese.

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>>87857982
Fair point. Still their style doesn't seem to be derived but rather mimicked. Like pic related is supposed to be Chinese animation. Look familiar?

>>87857721
You made right choice. It went to shit after that

>>87858268
It's still a growing industry for them, give it time.

>>87838532
TMNT 1987

>>87854783
>Genndy version doesn't appear in the movies
Fuck, Genndy SW was the shit. Shame fucking Lucas fucked up Grevious so hard.

>>87838532
Don Bluth

>>87857765
/thread

>>87858602
>butthurt IRfag detected

>>87860588
I havent read bleach since 2009 so i could not care about which girl won

>>87850870
Source pls ?

>>87857679
>japan animation probably puts out 40 shows a year
Unless you mean a specific studio, no Japan shoots out about 40 animes in a single season.

>>87860643
Literally slave labor.

>>87860623
Fate Stay Night or whatever it's called.

>>87857765
>Western comics - 23 pages a month
>Japanese (weekly) comics - 5 chapters a month, so about 70 pages a month.
Most manga aren't weekly, but they still do more work then western artist, about 35 - 50 pages monthly.

>>87855076
Mimicking the style is definitely a problem in eastern animation. There is such thing as good eastern animation, like Miyazaki, but at this point its pretty much just shitty copies of copies.

>>87860669
Most mass produced things are usually a stone throw away from it.

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>>87842507
Early Tiny Toons and Pup named Scooby doo really overdid it with the kick dancing.

>>87860771
I think that's just a Kennedy thing, and there's nothing good to say about them.

>>87860713
>Miyazaki
>good
He is fucking hack who lost his touch after spirited away.

>>87841826
That was all rotoscoped.

>>87861100
He hates anime and otaku, though, so he's a pretty okay guy.

Bad animation would have unsmooth motion and hard to read poses. That's it. Everything else is just style and content, which doesn't actually fall under animation.

>>87845271
Because they still like to fuckers

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>>87861150
>lol he hates otaku like i do so he's super cool, bring back MANIME XD

>>87861197
I never said he was super cool, just said he was an okay guy. Otaku are generally despised by normal Japanese citizens, so it's nice to see someone in the industry who dislikes them so much. Not sure what 'manime' is.

You can stop raging now, high blood pressure is a real killer.

>>87838702
It's from an OVA, so the runtime is however fucking long the studio wants it to be.

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>>87839258
Don't you ever show me that again

>>87853381
I was watching street Fighter II v on netflix and the fight of ryu vs guile, that one did not look like this dogshit.

>>87845482

>>87849791
Couple reasons:
- major fight scene
- probably a higher animation budget per minute ratio (remember, these episodes are 3-5 minutes)

>>87839130
yeh
galo sengen

>>87844152
You fucker now thats all I hear

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>>87852521
ITS THE DIRTY BUBBLE

>>87852544

You can still get the traditional animation effect by drawing on tablet. It all just depends on how much effort the studio wants to put into an animation.

>>87861150
I mean i hate otakus too but it doesnt mean i will like Miyazaki

humans can only see 12 frames a second so it's a non-issue

>>87839130
This has to be a joke
I'm so sorry for all the DB fans

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I've always hated that stupid trope when western shows "parody" anime by making shitty crude drawings animated in twelves. Because the shittiest run of the mill shonenshit taste of the month anime STILL looks and feels more impressive than any TV shows CN/Nick have been shitting out for at least 10 years.

I will never talk shit about the quality of golden era Disney or independent cartoons but when it comes to serialized shows west get's it shit blown out so fucking hard it's not even funny. And yet they still have act smug despite the fact that they are virtually incapable of creating anything that is not a beanshaped post-processed calarts garbage and are infamous for throwing shows into the trash FOR having good animation.

Pretty much any country is bad at animating.
They only git gud when its a collaboration effort.

When Korea, Japan and France work together, shit turns out pretty fucking good, for instance.

Canada needs to burn.

>>87845271

Why men needs them?.

>>87841863

Mind blowing.

>>87857571
>>87857571
Anime was great though

>>87861100
Oh fuck off

>>87846687
What left arm?

>>87839081
Yeah dude I agree, like where's the simplicity and static 3/4th shots? How else are you supposed to do wacky expressions?

>>87866504
No it wasnt. We just remember all the good ones

>>87866607
Just because i like some of his movies doesnt mean i have to suck his dick like most of /co/

>>87841639
Because SAC is more than intro to existential philosophy and babby's first Transhumanist genre piece.

It's not that much better than the movie until one is knee deep in the laughing man plot, but when SAC is good, SAC is good.

The movie is fantastic because it is the general public's first interaction with an immersive Posthuman world touching on Transhumanist philosophy. That, and of course, the fucking animation being god tier. However, we shouldn't get the original GiTS movie too much credit. I feel the same way about 20001 a Space Odyssey. It's just visuals over substance

>>87865525
>Stupid trope when western shows "parody" anime by making shitty crude drawings animated in twelves
Well of course in a parody, the more laughable, stereotypical aspects of the subject will be ridiculed/exaggerated, even if the east consistently puts out more and better looking stuff. They're not measuring dick sizes and calling each other shit, it's just a parody. In what you describe they don't even pardoy anime, they parody a weaboo's shitty attempt at emulating anime.

If they wanted to compare dick sizes they would make a thread like this.

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It's perfectly fine to enjoy cartoons and comics while accepting they're generally inferior to anime and manga. You'll save yourself some headaches if you just let it go and accept it.

>>87866745
You probably think all Ghibli films are Miyazaki films. Most movies after Spirited Away weren't even directed by him.

>>87865525
>ywn be as cool a dude as mr. cool ice

kill me

>>87838792
I can't stand how most anime have such a generic art style. I can instantly tell if I will like an anime or not after 1 second of seeing it.

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>>87866980
and everything not directed by Hayao in Ghibli are fucking garbage and only idiots think otherwise.

Take pic related. It was so damn bad.

>>87847955
Why doesn't she have a vagaña, then?

>>87866504
>>87866725
Late 80's, early 90's.

Once people started experimenting with shade-less designs, models started looking flatter and more simple.

>>87865525
Keep seething weeb

>>87867438
Ocean Waves and Princess Kaguya are good, fuck you.

Pom Poko and The Cat Returns are pretty shit, though.

>>87867775
pom poko is good, though.

>>87867775
the cat returns is great, fuck you
pom poko is pretty shitty though, only person i knew who liked it was not surprisingly, a furfag

>>87838532
non-japanese

>>87838545
>>87838546

first and second posts best posts

>>87857721
You know, I love shows like bleach and naruto because I can follow it with /a/ and it automatically makes a series a at least 7 or 8 out of ten experience.

Hell I fucking loved watching kill la kill with /a/. Good times

>>87861218
It's like he is japans jhonen when it comes to his fans

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How come everything looks way better on cels than digital?

>>87870182
because cels have blood sweat and tears poured into them and take a fuckload more work. Mind as well make it look spectacular if you're gonna do all that labor.

>>87855076
>Go ask any art teacher what they think of anime and they'll go on long rants about how shit it is.
Because they either don't know anything about animation, because they're jealous, or because they're ultra-nationalists.

>You can enjoy a Studio Ghibli film, but you can't deny that the best western animated movies are better animated than Spirited Away or any animated Japanese film.
Japanese animation is superior by far to Western animation. The reason many people think this isn't the case is because they think the only thing that matters in animation is how fluid it is (i.e. they don't understand animation).

>>87839130

Meh, the animation the episode before was great

>>87838623
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRryv9PFWoU

Americans taking their time to deliver the absolutely best quality animation with no corners cut, no compromises made, just pure American* craftsmanship. They must have worked on this scene for a year at least, because they're only going to deliver the goods when they're done, not when the broadcast schedule says they should be done.

* Made in South Korea or some other Asian country

Now let's look at anime:

https://sakugabooru.com/post/show/22678

Obviously just shat out in a day or so, because the "artists" just wanted it out as quickly as possible and didn't care what it looked like. They were so lazy they couldn't even be bothered outsourcing it to Korea. They don't have work ethic and professional standards like Americans do. Or souls.

>>87844166
No they haven't.

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Remember that time those Japanese animators thought rape was funny to put into an anime?

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>>87855938
everytime

>>87870751
>posting KyoAni shit

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>>87839030
>Lack of detail is a defining quality of anime.
Try comparing this against current American shows.

>>87870945
Why wouldn't I? They make some of the best looking shows around.

>>87871024
They're a shit studio run by filthy women.

>>87839135
SOOOOUUUUURRRRRCCCCCEEEE

>>87871042
This is a meme, and also completely beside the point. You are attempting to draw attention away from the comparison.

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>>87838545
>>87855076
Pixar head John Lasseter spoke about wooing his wife by showing her scenes from Miyazaki's debut feature, "Lupin III: The Castle of Cagliostro," the day after he met her. The film "had adventure, heart, action and humor, done with such style and sophistication and a wonderful eye for the details of human behavior," he said. "It was proof positive, as Walt Disney had showed so many years earlier, that animation was for everyone…Every time I watch a Miyazaki film, I learn something about the craft of filmmaking."

“Miyazaki is one of the greatest filmmakers of our time. At Pixar, when we have a problem and we can’t seem to solve it, we often take one of Mr. Miyazaki’s films and look at a scene in our screening room for a shot of inspiration. And it always works! We come away amazed and inspired. Toy Story owes a huge debt of gratitude to the films of Mr. Miyazaki.”

Video of Lasseter meeting Miyazaki
https://youtu.be/AS82GM7D6d0
Pete Docter is also a big fan of Ghibli
https://youtu.be/K_fe7eqaLAM

"The Japanese do the best action films in animation, so when you're studying animation, you look to the best sources you can for whatever you're trying to be inspired by."
Craig McCracken

"I’ve always been very inspired by Japanese animation."
Ben Bocquelet