Why is high fantasy a nearly dead genre in comics and cartoons?

>>87836196
The people that make it got bored with it and have moved on to different ways of doing fantasy.

>>87836196
Children and manchildren only want superheroes, and indiefags and "serious" comic appreciators don't want anything "genre".

>>87836196
Because science-fiction is the new fantasy; if they do a sword-and-sorcery story, it usually ends up IN SPACE, like Star Wars.

>>87836205
You mean the "grounded in reality " le dark and gritty fantasy where main characters die after 50 pages and everyone's an asshole?

>>87836196
It's overdone

>>87836237
They used to say that about WW2 shooter vidya, and now look at the state of the FPS genre. Hollywood action movie plots vs terrorists and illuminati galore.

>>87836237
Name 10 fantasy comic books

>>87836236
Basically. There are parts of the move I like because I got Salvatore combat porn out of it...but at what cost?

Remember when everyone thought LotR would cause a massive revival of high fantasy?

Yeah, that didn't happen.

>>87836330
It makes me wonder what created the high-fantasy buzz to begin with. I know Tolkien is effectively the foundation for it, but not sure if it was the spark or people just rediscovered the books because they were looking for the content.

>>87836361
>It makes me wonder what created the high-fantasy buzz to begin with.
D&D helped a lot

>>87836383
Yeah, modern fantasy is essentially based on D&D's bastardization of Tolkien, rather than Tolkien himself.

>>87836395
>D&D's bastardization of Tolkien

The original D&D books weren't really trying to be Tolkien though. It's the stuff that came after that tried to be like Tolkien and failed.

>>87836330
It did cause a massive amount of movie adaptations of fantasy novels to be made. Most of which were terrible. And it also introduced the idea that every fantasy movie needs to end with a stupidly huge battle scene.

>>87836395
That's just it, modern fantasy has fuck all to do anymore with D&D or Tolkien. Game of Thrones is the new codifier for fantasy, aside from urban/contemporary fantasy.

>>87836196
urban fantasy has replaced fantasy because it sells better

>>87836266
Half a dozen D&D runs within the decade.
Comic adaptation of The Hobbit I've seen.

Does it have to be usual elves/dwarves/orcs or just fantasy in general?
Cause Fables is still kinda ongoing for over 10 years and Red Thorn is ongoing in vertigo.
Orc Stain
The Orc's Treasure
Dark Souls has had a few comic minis this year.

And are we allowed to include porn comics?

>>87836576
lots of fantasy in BD too

>>87836196
Look at those US problems nobody on the globe shares

>>87836576
Still not as overdone as capeshit, why isn't it more popular?

>>87836196
The fact that there's a stock FANTASY setting is really stupid to me. All that potential for imagination and originality and it's just dwarfs and elves, dwarfs and elves.

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>>87836222
>Implying star wars is Science Fiction.
Anon, just because its in space it isnt necessarily science fiction.

>>87836395
I think the big shame is that it totally misses what Tolkien was really doing. He was trying to form an English Mythology, much like the Scandinavians.

That's why little things come up, like how they call King Theoden "Theoden King," much like how Alfred was refereed to as "Ælfred Cyning."

>>87837504
That sort of stuff is easily switched around, int he end it's just fluff.

The classic archetypes of orphan/young thief/farm boy going on a monomyth adventure, kingdoms and empires, magic and premodern technology, assassins and thieves guilds, seers and hermits, barbarian tribes and capricious (demi)gods will always be there no matter what shape they take. Those are what define high fantasy, not elves and dwarves.

>>87837617
It's also pretty apparent how the dark realm of Mordor and its human vassal realms Rhun and Harad are pretty much Middle-Earth's Middle East and North Africa.

>>87837617
Also that whole "Horse and the rider..." translates nearly one-for-one in to Anglo Saxon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gbf_mJRIHg

Not to mention it being taken from a Saxon poem in the first place.

>>87837504
A. High fantasy doesn't mean stock fantasy
B. Fantasy archetypes drawing from real world mythology don't prevent originality from appearing in a work.
C. Most high fantasy involves neither dwarves nor elves
D. There's like 50 million different kinds of elves and a few different kinds of dwarves

>>87837736
English would've sounded pretty close to Flemish Dutch dialects if it hadn't been for the influence of Danish and French.

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>>87836222
>mfw I long for the days of old school sci-fi when it was more "imaginative and speculatory" rather than "cold, hard facts"

>>87836196
I desperately want to see more swashbuckling fantasy. I'm actually editing a novella now, but I'd love a cartoon or comic with some heart and sword fights.

>>87837817
This. Both sci-fi and fantasy suffer from the current trend of making everything "based in reality" in a misguided attempt to make suspension of disbelief a non-issue.
So many modern works try to be deconstructions of classic genre conventions and end up being bleak and depressing.

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Because people expect intricate descriptions of the scenery in high fantasy ("worldbuilding") while normal people want a story and don't care about the color of the dirt at the north-eastern quadrant of the third-largest forest in the second-largest shire in the western lands.

Comics and cartoons are about the feeling of the drawings and the story they tell. They're not as ponderous as fans of high fantasy expect high fantasy to be.

>>87837871
If you think that all high fantasy is riddled in purple prose you clearly haven't read that much.

>>87836266
Most horror and some cape comics are fantasy

Also, plenty of cartoons are fantasy

Adventure Time, Steven Universe, Mighty Magiswords, Fairly Oddparents, Miraculous Ladybug, Gravity Falls, Star Vs., etc

>>87836196
It's a shit genre.

>>87836196
Adventure Time
Mighty Magiswords
Star vs the Forces of Evil

the fact that you do not like them does not mean they do not exist

>>87836196
they all look alike.

>>87837868
I'm like 90% certain that shit is based in the real world just because world building takes a long ass time from both production and airtime

>>87836196
high standard for dialog writing and art.

>>87837884
If you can't tell the difference between purple prose and "worldbuilding" you clearly haven't read that much.

>>87837959
high fantasy doesn't have any different standards from school life or any other genre

>>87836196
what is this picture supposed to convey?

>always white european settings

fantasy is shitty for inclusion

>>87837972
What you described in your post was textbook "worldbuilding" taken to the extreme of purple prose.

>>87838003
But its great for exclusion.

Hence why /pol/ loves LotR so much more than Star Wars.

>>87838003
Read more dipshit. There is plenty of high fantasy xianxia.

In most high fantasy I've read over the past decade the traditional western Europe analog is only part of the setting.

Reading Malazan now, a lot of variation in there.

>>87837978
People wont buy into the ego comforting shitty quips that is school life comics, or what most comics millennials are producing if it took place in medieval fantasy unless its like adventure time or something.

>>87838004
That's not purple prose if the color ties into the plot.

Purple prose specifically relates to violations of conservation of detail. You can get hyperspecific about something without violating that shit though, for example, hyper specificity is common in the noir genre because of the types of stories those tend to be

>>87837934
>Star vs the Forces of Evil
Not really high-fantasy, is it?

>>87838050
Harry god damn Potter.

I don't give a shit if it's low fantasy, 90% of the scenes in the books don't god damn feature anything contemporary.

>>87838100
The B plot technially is

>>87838114
Written by an English middle aged female writer that features comedic British charm.

Not even close buddy lmao

>>87838114
harry potter is self insert ego comforting though.

is kung fu wuxia movies fantasy?

>>87838134
That's my point.

>>87838125
You're retarded

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>>87836196
Because you live in America.

France especiallly love them, and there is at least as much Fantasy title as cape comics one (not issze since a BD takes longer to be made)

>>87836576
Thorgal
Roxanna and the Timebird
Lanfeust of Troy
Garulfo
Elric cycle
Blackmoon chronicles
Chninkel's quest
Of cape and claw
DnD 4e
Pathfinder
Naheulbeuk
Reflet d'Acide
Dwarf/Elves
Emerald's knight
Opale's forest
The legendary
Ewilan's quest
Namibia
Zombillnium
Aria
Lost land complains

>>87837868
Problem is not bleakness. The problem is that writers are unimaginative even then, so we get An Ancient Evil Awakens plots ad nauseam.

Even Lovecraft and his circle used to put more thought into what they did.

>>87838145
depends. A lot of wuxia is fantasy, but some is just straight martial arts.

If qi comes up it's almost definitely fantasy. If it's xianxia, it's definitely fantasy, probably high fantasy.

>>87837462
Because you didn't buy Amethyst Sword and Sorcery or other fantasy titles enough for them to go "say this is holding its own against Marvel comics with the word 'spider' in the title. Let's make more."

Traditional high fantasy doesn't give their characters Jojo levels of power and flash which is what the people want.

Gandalf is what, 100 years old and the most he can do is cast a fireball. Meanwhile a child in the Warcraft universe can already raise an entire army of the dead and his baby sister can move mountains.

>>87837995
I don't get it either.

Because high fantasy isn't an interesting concept with any nuance. It's why fantasy authors rip of Tolkien and call it a day.

>>87838244
>Rip off Tolkien
You mean the Nibelungenlied?

>>87838018
only that even LotR had equivalents to Asia and Africa
we just never got to see them

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>>87838003
ehm

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>>87838003
you said?

>>87838235
Too bad that when you do that, you end in power level wankery.

>>87838100
the lore is high-fantasy as hell

>>87836438
>stupidly huge battle scene.

With a shot of two massive CGI armies running at each other across an open field that cuts to them clashing.

>>87838125
failed to give a reason why it should not count

>>87838444

Which is what people want.

>>87838313
>Nibelungenlied
You mean Norse mythology?

>>87838477
>norse
That's not how you spell germanic

>>87837505
>Anon talks about how fantasy gets painted over with sci-fi
>Compares it to Star Wars, a fantasy painted over with sci-fi.
I think that anon is very aware of what Star Wars is.

>>87838170
honestly, most of the problems brought-up in this thread could be solved with as "fantasy world reaches an age of exploration, and the protagonists are part of a world-trotting expedition" type of setting
The possibilities would be endless
And you could also shut-up SJWs, by being able to have diversity that makes sense to the plot and it not forced (and since it is a fictional world, they can not accuse you of stereotypes either)

>>87836196

Because most of it is regressive cliches and stereotypes. People with talent find it passé or boorish. Too much feudalism, too much traditional gender norms, too much reliance in barbaric violence, too macho

It takes a creative genius ala George R. R. Martin to make some of that stuff palatable again

>>87837505
While I'm sure that anon has a good idea on what star wars is. A lot of people think just because something looks techy then it's science fiction. I know people that think the differences between star wars and star trek are the same as different brands of milk.

>>87838483
I think he's saying German fairy tales like Nibelungenlied were inspired by Norse myth like Tolkien was inspired by German Fairy Tales and D&D was inspired by Tolkien and now we have 1000 cardboard cutouts of D&D across movies, comics, games, anime, and TV

>>87838483
the norse are germanic, but the Nibelunglied specifically draws from the norse portion of germanic lore, not the germanic portion, despite being germanic itself

>>87838517
how is any of it bad?

>>87838313

While Tolkein borrowed heavily from Norse legend, the One Ring and the ring of power from the ring cycle aren't really the same.

Gold was the sole corrupting influence in the Norse legend. The One Ring was a material instance of Sauron's will, and corrupted as a means of returning to it's master.

Also, Tolkein's version of Ragnarok had occured farther in the past than the ring cycle. What seemed like the end of the world for the characters in LotR was simply a dying gasp of the great splendor of the old age.

>>87838563
>A lot of people think just because something looks techy then it's science fiction.
To be fair, that's completely true.

everything from steampunk to magitech is sci-fi.

It's just other genres sometimes play a large role too.

Incidentally, star wars isn't fantasy because midochlorians

>>87838579

Is not bad for certain audience, but are the numbers worth taking a creative risk? Maybe, but convince creators of that. Conan and Red Sonja took care of that demo for the last few years.

Also, keep in mind that most professional comic creators have gone to some college or another. Only around 10% of college graduates are consistently conservative (look it up.) Since the current middle class is made mostly of graduates , people write along the same political lines. Mostly liberal people making products for mostly liberal people with disposable income.

Rarely high-school dropouts have developed the art and writing skills to make good art. But even if somehow some did, they would have a hard time getting published by the big guys.

>>87836196
Really, I think that ever since the advent of D&D, fantasy's domain has shifted from novels to tabletop RPGs and then later videogames in the 80s and 90s. Which is not to say that there are still fantasy books being written (and TV shows, and movies etc.) but the primary vessel for fantasy in popular culture has become games.

The history of fantasy is fascinating to me and if I ever earn that graduate degree in medievalism I'm going to write a book on it.

>>87838708
except games aren't dominated by fantasy any more than any other genre. The writers clearly didn't all migrate to that medium or anything of the sort.

>>87838768
That's not at all what I meant. Games aren't dominated by fantasy, but fantasy IS dominated by games.

>>87838777
I'd say no more than any other genre exept nazi zombie

>>87838822
no more or less*

Games are popular

>>87838841
Exactly, they're more popular than books

>>87838847
which has fuck all to do with any decline in the popularity of fantasy in any other medium

>>87838877
I'm not saying that there's been a decline. But video games have become so much more popular than books, and fantasy has become such a consistent genre in videogames, that they have become the primary transmitter of the genre nowadays, because fantasy in literature has been overshadowed, and fantasy in TV or movies was never a very big presence to begin with.

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>>87838924
>and fantasy in TV or movies was never a very big presence to begin with.
Are you high?

>>87838958
I suppose I'm using a stricter view of fantasy of stuff more like high-fantasy or sword-and-sorcery. Disney films are moreso fairy tales, and can be very loose with their genre

Conan is still here.

>>87836196
Two Eves and... An Imp, Gnome, what is that thing?

>>87839608
DnD halfling

and a bard at that

>>87839627
Oh, those are some weird proportions.

>>87837995
manlets not learning

>>87837995
ugly manlet trying to court a fair maiden
chad elf laughing his ass off at him

>>87836236
>Game of Thrones is the only fantasy book
Pleb.

>>87838703
If you think most high fantasy is made by conservatives than your retarded.

>>87836236
I mean.... ya kinda. Obviously not EVERYONE is doing that, but some people are, and there's not really any thing we can do about that other than making our own stuff I guess

>>87839748
Not for me, but for mainstream it definitely is. Currently the world of fantasy novels is dominated by spiritual successors to Glen Cook's The Black Company, which writers like Martin, Erikson and Abercrombie spearheading the movement.

Meanwhile the classical school of Tolkien, David Eddings, Terry Brooks, Terry Goodkind, Robert Jordan, Robin Hobb etc. is on the decline. So much so that the most popular current author that can be counted in that group is Gary Stu writer Patrick Rothfuss.

>no one ever brings up Michael Moorcock and Fritz Leiber when talking about fantasy writers

>>87836196
Fantasy fucking sucks is why.

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Give me some good fantasy comics, /co/.

>>87838508

Or go back to archaic or classic ages.

Less feuds and serf shits, more polis, empires, bronze, blossoming culture, religions, politics, warfare, trade, technology, arts, beast fights, rituals, champions and heroes, bare breasted women and oiled up, feminine boys.

>>87842143
>bare breasted women

go on

>>87836447
>Game of Thrones is the new codifier for fantasy, aside from urban/contemporary fantasy.
Which is annoying because Game of Thrones is hardly about fucking fantasy, like 15% of the show is actual fantasy worldbuilding and the rest is "hurf durf edgy medieval politics".

>>87842234
Magic usually takes a back seat in gritty fantasy.

Except in cases like Malazan where they summon hellhounds who rip entire towns apart and fights between wizards go full nuclear.

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>>87836196
>Why is high fantasy a nearly dead genre in comics and cartoons?

Because fuck elves.

>>87836196
Check out the webcomic The Green Knight. You might like it.

>>87842321
That's not what happened you dumb fuck. Did you even watched the movie?

>>87842185

Minoan women

Ancient Greece, Egypt, the Phoenician, Babylonian, Levantine cultures, Celtic and Germanic, Picts, Iberians and Mauretanians, and all the cultures before and during classic Rome were fucking great, they all had their distinct customs and looks, the ancient mediterranean ocean used to be more diverse and interesting than entire high fantasy universes. Fantasy Fiction is intentionally made to be retarded, childish and boring because the anglosphere is obsessed with glorifying their crappy made up traditions.

This isnt even touching Asia, Persia and India.

>>87836196
In this diverse world we cannot show anything that brings positivity to the image of white people or even show them they had cultures in the past as well oh no we must show multicultural modern cartoons to stop such a racist mindset.

>>87842300
>Magic usually takes a back seat in gritty fantasy.
And that annoys the shit out of me to no end, because ignoring magic entirely leaves you with a pseudo-medieval setting that is only fantasy in that they're using swords and bows to fight each other. I don't care if you want to write stories like that, just don't call it fantasy because it's absolutely fucking not.

>>87842350
That's hardly high fantasy, Anon. I mean, I like it, but it feels a lot more inspired by fairy tales and folklore than it does something like Tolkien or Warhammer.

This is general fantasy setting gripe, but I'm so fucking tired of orcs being the generic bad guy race/mooks.

>>87838508
High fantasy is tied to exploring like science fiction is tied to the early 20th century and the Space Race. Both of which are no longer in vogue and have been drowned by 21st century's urban, wordly style of living. That's why most fantasy is urban as well, or "grounded" -- nobody wants to discover new worlds or bring about The Singularity; we're all too comfy with our phones, throwing memes at one another through the internet.

>>87842358
>Did you even watched the elf propaganda?

FTFY

>>87842556
Is that common? I can't think of anything that does it outside of Tolkien and pre-WC3 Warcraft.

>>87842407
>Fantasy Fiction is intentionally made to be retarded, childish and boring because the anglosphere is obsessed with glorifying their crappy made up traditions.
That, and records of European societies from Antiquity that aren't the Romans or the Greeks are sketchy as fuck. We don't even know for certain what language the Trojans spoke, for example; or who were the Pelasgians.

>>87839627
isn't it a kender?

>>87842615
The Mars Space Race and post-new age environmentalism and SJW culture is already triggering a revival of sci-fi though.
A lot might depend on how shit / not shit the new Star Trek is though.

I don't want to sound like I'm calling out filthy casuals but I believe the GoT flavor keeps on going is because of it's pointless violence and soap opera tier drama. I doubt the majority of the GoT audience would have a good time digesting The Silmarillion or even some D&D shit.

>>87842407
>History of the world is more interesting than a bunch of fiction works.

No shit.

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>>87843023
nah, it's Pathfinder's example bard character, Lem the Halfling Bard

>>87836447
>get annoyed that harry potter has fucking ruined fantasy
>it finally ends
>Game of thrones comes and ruins it in the exact opposite way

>>87844924

didn't GoT exist before Harry Potter tho

>>87844990
Silly anon. Nothing counts until it has a film or TV series, just like comics.

>>87836196
its overused... it will eventually come back

High fantasy has been played out for two decades

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Because every high fantasy is just a shittier version of Tolkien's High Fantasy

>>87838004
>Very little about trees as trees can be got into a play
That is worldbuilding, and the essence of "high fantasy". When you start getting autistic and describing the trees for the sake of describing the trees, that's not purple prose, that's pretty much the definition of worldbuilding. And you're boring the snot out of the normies, who want CHARACTERS and STORY, not a fucking geological survey or botanical overview.

>>87843742
>I don't want to sound like I'm calling out filthy casuals but I believe the GoT flavor keeps on going is because of it's pointless violence and soap opera tier drama.

you can't really fault humans for being interested in aspect of humanity in their entertainment.

>>87845690
That's pretty much what autists do. See: The Silmarillion.

Because fantasy is lame and high fantasy is even lamer.

The genre of fantasy itself leans too much on magical mcguffins, deus ex machinas, and barely-serviceable exposition. With the intrinsic tropes fantasy possess, it's more of a chore to keep up with it.

Is high fantasy the lighthearted stuff like fairytales and Galivant?

Because I would love a Skyrim-esque game set in such a world.

I want to be a princess. ;_;

>>87836576
Late, but is the dark souls comic any good?

>Want to /tg/
>everyone I know insists on playing in some boring as shit fantasy setting

>"Oh we'll do Mutants and Masterminds next we swear""

Fuck ya'll and fuck Tolkien

>>87846072
Nah, high fantasy is a measure of how much magic is in the setting and how much it impacts the story.

If there's a Dark Lord somewhere in the setting, if the protagonists are inspired by ideals of justice or goodness rather than pragmatic needs, and there's loads of magic being lobbed around by all sides, it's probably high fantasy story.

Compare with something low fantasy like Game of Thrones, where sure, there's some magic stuff, but the core of the story is just people being people to people.

>>87842420
GOT has magic its just more grounded and ritualistic instead of wizards chucking fireballs at will.
>>87836447
>>87842234
I'm not really on board that GOT is the fantasy codifier, yeah its the most popular fantasy series at the moment but I'm yet to see anything directly inspired by it or some big rise in the popularity of low fantasy settings.

>>87846072
dude, the elder scrolls series has highbrow as fuck lore. it's basically hindu mythology. some examples: the universe is the dream of an elder god, khajits LITERALLY stacked themselves to the moon while high on skooma, the dwemer (dwarves) built a space-time mecha, the high elves want to destroy reality such that humans will never exist, etc.

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>>87846525
That's not even getting into all the C0DA bullshit.

Here's the problem with fantasy in general:

- Way too many LOTR clones. People emulate Tolkien to the point where it's a cliche
- It's always set in some form of basis on the British Isles or Scandinavia instead of actually hashing out other cultures. Indian culture is criminally overlooked for fantasy despite the richness of its civilization. The same applies to pre-Columbus civilizations of the Western Hemisphere.
- It's humans, dwarves, elves, trolls, goblins, dragons, and all the other recycled shit that you'd expect in a Dungeon and Dragons game

As much as it pains me to say it, the Japs actually do fantasy well in games and manga/anime than the US does. Some of their fantasy titles do a far better job in trying to be original. Hell even the Dragon Quest mangas, Dai's Grand Adventure and Emblem of Roto are fun as fuck.

Sanderson is probably the only Western fantasy writer that actually impresses me. I like GRRM's Dunk & Egg stories because they're comfy as fuck, but ASOIAF is dragging out too long. I appreciate the fact that it deals with backstabbling and double deals, but the Chinese did that centuries ago with Romance of the Three Kingdoms.

>>87848064
Holy shit this post triggers me so fucking badly.

I'm triggered like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOy6hqzfsAs

>>87847999
>It's always set in some form of basis on the British Isles or Scandinavia instead of actually hashing out other cultures.
B-b-but I'm still waiting for my Mabinogi retelling.
I mean they've even got Arthur.

I've seen the 'my own fantasy story with bits and pieces of irish or welsh mythology for symbolism' but there's nothing that's actually set in those stories and uses the characters.
You could get a decent franchise out of it.

i remember it being a really popular thing when i was a child... but, no joke, it feels like it lost popularity after shrek. shrek was huge and it was everywhere, either people were afraid of seeming like they were riding off shreks popularity, or possibly because shrek's satire left people feeling as though fantasy is silly and dumb and to be laughed at...?

or maybe i'm just retarded. who knows

>>87848266
Welsh and Irish mythos are barely known to fantasy writers nowadays. If anything, Breton mythos and culture should be utilized more.

>>87837505
>>87837505
That was kind of what the dude was implying boss.

>>87836196
I blame elves.

>>87848312
Born in 1989 here. I grew up reading the Narnia books as well as Tolkien, watched the D&D cartoon, Conan the Adventurer, Pirates of Dark Water, and other stuff that 80's and 90's kids remember.

Fantasy has a serious problem in depicting itself as castles and plate armor. Even the god-tier film Excalibur from 1981 has a problem with this. If anything, show what the Middle Ages really were. No tapestries, no minstrels, no Disney-esque castles and all that other jazz. Depict actual villages and cities made out of wood and only fortresses/palaces out of stone. Soldiers wear leather jerkins and only a steel helmet for protection with round shields and a spear.

>>87848397
Elves and dwarves plays a big part. Why the fuck can't people bother to do research and utilize other creatures from European mythos? There's a ton of stuff from Central and Eastern Europe that would be awesome to use.

>>87848415
Your argument then, is fantasy has to be more historical?

To be honest m8 I think if you look at what you're picking out as your influences there, look at the publication dates, and look at what fills in the gaps you'll see fantasy is a broader barn than you and most others in this thread are considering.

Like if this >>87848434 is your complaint you haven't read enough fantasy, straight up.

>>87846105
the run they did earlier this year had almost nothing to do with dark souls, not sure about anything else made

Magic sux. Science fiction 4 life.

The problem with fantasy stories is the problem with any real genre of entertainment. When one type of story becomes popular, it spawns legions of imitators. You can see it everywhere. It happened to comics with Watchmen, it happens every year with some new vidya CoD is one example, it's star is fading now though. It's just the nature of the market. Of something becomes popular, everyone wants to cash in on it. Right now GoT is big, so pretty much everything is gritty medieval fantasy with emphasis on politics, backstabbing and sex. A few years from now, who knows. Maybe things will shift and we'll be neck deep in High Fantasy Russian Mythological stories based largely around pre-human magic civilizations. Who knows, the future is open-ended.
The only constant is that no matter what's in, we'll all be pissed off and wishing that some other type of story would take hold. Because that's just how we are.

>>87847999
>As much as it pains me to say it, the Japs actually do fantasy well in games and manga/anime than the US does. Some of their fantasy titles do a far better job in trying to be original. Hell even the Dragon Quest mangas, Dai's Grand Adventure and Emblem of Roto are fun as fuck.

Part of the reason that is possible is because their comic market isn't based on each series carrying just itself every week/month. Magazines are sold as anthologies where 10 different people buy each magazine for 10 different stories and might enjoy reading several of the others. Japanese Fantasy series tend to have at least 10 to 12 issues to build up a following without worry about personal issue sales.

This would be similar to DC selling a magazine with a 20 page Superman (modern action fantasy) story, a 20 page Batman story (mystery), a 20 page Green Lantern (science fiction/fantasy) story, a 20 page Wonder Woman (mythological fantasy) story, a 20 page Booster Gold (action comedy) story, several 20 page sports stories, a 20 page high fantasy story, a 20 western page and a 20 page medieval historical story.

>>87842143
>>87842185
>oiled up, feminine boys

go on

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>>87848434
>Blaming the writers instead of the elves themselves

Fucking knife-ear lover.

>>87848434
>Elves and dwarves play a big part.Why the fuck can't people bother to do research and utilize other creatures from European mythos?
>implying most fantasy elves or dwarves have any resemblance to the elves and dwarves of the original mythologies

>>87848415
>If anything, show what the Middle Ages really were. No tapestries, no minstrels, no Disney-esque castles and all that other jazz. Depict actual villages and cities made out of wood and only fortresses/palaces out of stone. Soldiers wear leather jerkins and only a steel helmet for protection with round shields and a spear.
That sounds like a really quite limited depiction of a period that spans an entire continent over a thousand years

>>87848312
Wow anon I think you might be right.

Blame Shrek man.

>>87847999

I have to agree that there's some really good fantasy coming out of Japan, Ancient Magus' Bride and Helck are some of my favs.

There's still some great stuff in the west as well, you just have to dig past the mainstream stuff. I really enjoyed the secrets of the immortal Nicholas flammel and The lies of Locke lamora.

>>87848679
We barely know enough about the elves of the originating mythology to write about them. Nowadays they get conflated with aes sidhe just so people have something to go on (and because Celtic fantasy has had several modern booms).

>>87848320
There's a decent amount of crossover between Welsh, Cornish, and Breton mythology due to the old relations and I suppose the connection of language.

>>87837868
>suffer
You not liking it doesn't mean there's a problem in what's being written now.

>>87836222
But most science-fiction books don't look like Star Wars. I wouldn't have read any otherwise.

>>87846525
The dwemer were elves too. Dwarf was just a derogatory term.

Also, how come Skyrim felt so bleak and dark?

>>87842234
>"hurf durf edgy medieval politics"
>edgy
Well, this word really have no meaning. There are lot of bloody events in GOT that are inspired by reality.

>>87846105
Pretty sure Solair showed up but he was fuck huge and the sun on his shirt was pissed

>>87837504
>and it's just dwarfs and elves, dwarfs and elves.
Yeah, Tolkien really fucked over a lot of writers. They like his work so much, they can't detached themselve from it. Imagine if most science-fiction novel's concepts were derived from Dune or another iconic s-f story...

>>87849050
Because you're in the frozen north, it's snowing all the damn time, and every ten steps a dragon drops down to get it on.
Also, a lot of the organizations you're familiar with from the previous games are in ruins. The Dark Brotherhood consists of six or so assassins, and they're the only ones left. The Imperials got buttfucked by the Thalmor and are house bitch in their own palaces. Most of the cities you journey to are caught up in a civil war and far from prosperous. You definitely get a certain feeling that everyone is just scraping by a lot of the time.
For me the Dark Brotherhood's current outlook is the grimmest. I liked those fuckers too, it's a damn pity that they all die except for Claudette and Three Dog.
RIP Veezhara, he was my favourite.

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>>87837505
Why isn't star wars considered sci fi?

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>>87838153
This. Virgins' Woods was storytimed here recently and it's awesome. Must-read if you liked Fables.

>>87837504
But most people have no imagination, including writers.

>>87848415
>Soldiers wear leather jerkins and only a steel helmet for protection with round shields and a spear.

leather armor is a fucking meme

brigandines, gambesons, mail hauberks and lamellar vests are far far more believable.

the other thing is weaponry, everyone using swords as a main weapon makes it so they have really silly looking duels in a battlefields instead of holding a line in a hellish conveyor of death.

>>87848460
>Your argument then, is fantasy has to be more historical?

i wouldn't say fantasy needs to be more "historical", i do think it should be more low-level, depict more poverty and sobriety, i can't buy that a kingdom is struggling after being devastated by war when every soldier has a shinny suit of full plate armor.

sorta like how sci-fi can be divided between high end and cyberpunk, less technologically and culturally developed settings can either focus on posh elite fuckwits surrounded by luxury and wonders, and then the poor bastards stuck in the lower rungs of society, grueling every day to keep things working against constant necessity and danger.

if you think about it, those kinds of situations are where magic would truly make a difference, it would make men desperate and mad to harness it.

>>87838508
>(and since it is a fictional world, they can not accuse you of stereotypes either)

But they will.
I mean, here's an example.

"This is a new culture in my fantasy world of Bubland. They're called the Snikts. The Snikts are all human in appearance, with wide noses, dark eyes and hair, and dark brown skin. They have a proud warrior tradition and their weapons of choice are the spear. They have a religion steeped in voodoo and their voodoo priests are the heads of their villages.
>LIKE, OH MY GOD. CAN YOU NOT. I'M LITERALLY SHAKING RIGHT NOW!
>YO DAS RACIS! FUCKIN' CRACKA ASS HONKY ASS KKK ASS MUTHA FUCKIN' WHITEY GIMME YO WIFE
>Oh, so you'll make that group black...But why aren't any of the elves black? More representation for elves.

Conversely.

"This is a new culture in my fantasy world of Bubland. They're called the Snikts. The Snikts are all human in appearance, with long noses, light eyes and hair, and light skin. They have a proud warrior tradition and their weapons of choice are the spear. They have a religion steeped in voodoo and their voodoo priests are the heads of their villages"
>LIKE, OH MY GOD. CAN YOU NOT. I'M LITERALLY SHAKING RIGHT NOW!
>YO WHY YOU CRACKAS APPROPRIATING OUR CULTURE AND SHIT? DAH FUCK WHITEY? GIMME YO DAUGHTER KEK
>Oh, so you think it's okay to take a role that would typically be played by a proud person or peoples of color, and make them White? Pathetic.

>>87836196
Why do I wish I were that Elvan girl when I'm a straight biological male currently seeing a therapist for gender issues?

>>87849925

you've convinced yourself you feel a certain way out of frustration with your social issues.

go talk to girls before you decide you want to be one.

>>87849925
Because you want to know how it feels to be DP'd by an elf and halfling

healthy curiosity

>>87849925
Elves are made for fucking and you're a slut

>>87849884

Or, you can stop worrying so damn much about SJWs and write what the hell you want.

>>87836196

I think maybe the reason High Fantasy is dead is because people think the "Fantasy" genre is: lame/boring, mock-worthy, for children, or for people that eat up schmaltzy romance movies.

This might be because of movies like: Ella Enchanted, Shrek, The Princess Bride, maybe Narnia...etc.

>>87850861

Also add Harry Potter as something that could make people not take fantasy more seriously.

>Fantasy can be whatever the author wishes to be
>Everyone just falls back on DnD/Tolkien Orcs'n'Elves everywhere

>>87842023
The Last Unicorn.

>>87836196
The Lord of the Rings and Narnia movioes killed Fantasy, since everything in Lord of the Rings/Narnia has been ripped off by nearly every other fantasy righter save GRR Martin

>>87848736
>The lies of Locke lamora.

I was pleasantly surprised bu this, but I'm not sure if I can stomach sitting through the second book.

>>87852427
I wish they'd at least do those things in a unique setting instead of just medieval western Europe. That's why I love Morrowind.

>>87836196

It's been done to death, and most barely deviates from Tolken's work. What people want nowadays is a more "grounded in reality" approach to fantasy. It's why Game of Thrones is so popular.

>>87836196
It was a product of a cultural zeitgeist that doesn't exist anymore (at least in the same way).

>>87849425
There's very little science to it. It's essentially fantasy, but with lasers and energy shields instead of magic.

>>87849884
While that will of course happen, you're better of not shutting yourself down by worrying about imagined scenarios, and just do whatever you want.

If people want to say you "codified" your characters to be black and therefore your story is racist, let them think that. Even if you think you removed everything "problematic" someone will find something, so there's no point in worrying.

>>87853753
>>87849425
It would technically fall under planetary romance.

>>87853753
Isn't that just called soft science fiction?

>>87853753
I hate this arguments.
You might as well call time travel stories fantasy as well, and anything with faster than light travel.
The necessity for a basis in science is an archaic way of looking at science fiction and is the main reason why many prefer the term speculative fiction.

>>87836196
Not as relatable.
That's it
Stupid yes

>>87848610
>This would be similar to DC selling a magazine with a 20 page Superman (modern action fantasy) story, a 20 page Batman story (mystery), a 20 page Green Lantern (science fiction/fantasy) story, a 20 page Wonder Woman (mythological fantasy) story, a 20 page Booster Gold (action comedy) story, several 20 page sports stories, a 20 page high fantasy story, a 20 western page and a 20 page medieval historical story.

This is basically how comics worked in the Golden Age.

>>87853942
>>87853753
It's a fantasy story told in a sci-fi setting.
There's robots and spaceships and stuff, but the focus of the story is on space wizards..

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>>87849425
>Why isn't star wars considered sci fi?

Because science fiction is a genre that's about establishing relevance to the real world within the story and following many real-life guidelines. Fantasy, on the other hand, is about either altering the rules of reality or taking place in a different reality.

Stuff like Star Trek, Fallout, and Men in Black establish themselves as either alternate history or supposed future, relating themselves to real events/science in some way. Thus, they are sci-fi.

Stuff like Star Wars, He-Man, and Thundercats may have advanced technology and aliens in them, but they also include magic and take place in different realities. Thus, they are fantasy.

>>87853942
Science fiction is adding a new idea or invention to the real world and exploring what would happen as a result. Like robots, time travel, or FTL spaceships. Star Wars is in another universe altogether. It is literally high fantasy in space. There's no focus on exploring the ideas of space travel and contact with aliens. There's an evil empire ruled by a magic wizard and his evil samurai apprentice, and the heroic magic swordsman who fights against them. The mere existence of more advanced technology and a space setting doesn't make it science fiction. Just because it's not in a medieval England analogue doesn't mean it's not fantasy.

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>>87849425
>Why isn't star wars considered sci fi?

Pic related. It's the same as fairy tale storybooks saying, "Once upon a time, in a land far way."

>>87854193
>>87854292
>>87854310
You're arguments are all very well, but the fact is that the popular culture will always consider Star Wars 'sci fi'

I'm not saying it's right, but that's how it is

>>87854358
>but the fact is that the popular culture will always consider Star Wars 'sci fi'
eh, not really. A lot of normies do take this stance too.

But more pressingly, actual content creators, critiques, theorists, and in general people passionate about and involved in the narrative arts agree on this definition, which is more important than what someone who has almost no knowledge of the subject matter has to say about it.

>>87836576
>And are we allowed to include porn comics?
uh

sure, name some plz

for research

>>87854049
That's exaggerating a little. Golden Age issues were much bigger and anthologies sure but only about 60 pages and each strip was usually only 5-ish pages with the main strip being just shy of 15. They weren't really the 90s phone book sized collections of things like Weekly Shounen Jump.

Golden Age US comics are more comparable to UK comics really.

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what about podcasts

>>87838508
"fantasy world reaches an age of exploration, and the protagonists are part of a world-trotting expedition" type of setting
This messed up one of the last good fantasy cartoons right now though

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>>87854292
>>87854193
You can repeat space wizards all day if you want, but that doesn't mean Star Wars isn't sci fi
>Science fiction is a genre of speculative fiction typically dealing with imaginative concepts such as futuristic science and technology, space travel, time travel, faster than light travel, parallel universes, and extraterrestrial life.

Besides, Star Trek mumbo jumbo is as fake as Star Wars'. They may try to explain it, but that doesn't make it anymore realer or sci fi-ish than Star Wars.
And trying to explain it doesn't mean shit, considering there's so many other sci fi series out there that don't bother to explain their tech (see foundation). Most humans IRL don't even care about how our tech works either, they just use it and it might as well be magic to them.
Shit, this book actually protrayed how kids would use iPads better than all that datapads-everywhere in Star trek.

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>>87836196
>Why is high fantasy a nearly dead genre in comics and cartoons?
It seems kind of dated. You can really only have fantasy adventures in a high fantasy world. The humor isn't very funny since its not relateable. It can get boring seeing the same ol same ol dragons, elves, dwarves, castles, and kings that you see in every other high fantasy world like in D&D, Elder Scrolls, Lord of the Rings, vidya, and fantasy novels.

>>87855817
But that's the thing. Star Wars ISN'T speculative fiction. It doesn't explore the concepts of futuristic science and technology, or space travel, or extraterrestrial life. Those things exist as objects within the plot, but that's all setting. Science Fiction as a genre is determined by theme, not by plot.

Star Trek is thematically about the ramifications and effects of technology and space travel and exploration and extraterrestrial life and meeting other races and what defines humanity and personhood and what mankind's capable of. It is exploring the ramifications of scientific ideas.

Star Wars has a sci-fi setting, but there's nothing science fiction about it's plot. Thematically, it's pure high fantasy. It's about people struggling in an empire controlled by a powerful mystic who wields a dark, corrupted version of a magical energy that influences and corrupts the galaxy, turning those with noble intentions to darkness, and the purity of those who resist that darkness and stand in the light. It is not a thoughtful, realistic depiction of how people would react and how society would function in a world with this technology, or with a galactic society on this scale made up of many different races. It is good vs evil, light magic vs dark magic, a classic struggle based on legend and epics moresoe than contemporary storytelling.

The difference between Sci-Fi and Fantasy is one of theme, not setting. Now granted, there are settings that are traditionally associated with certain genre, and can be described as such. Star Wars indeed has a 'Sci-Fi setting', just as something could have a 'Fantasy setting' without necessarily being Sci-Fi or Fantasy.

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>>87856857
>Star Wars ISN'T speculative fiction
>Speculative fiction is a broad category of narrative fiction that includes elements, settings and characters created out of imagination and speculation rather than based on reality and everyday life. It encompasses the genres of science fiction, fantasy, science fantasy, horror fiction, superhero fiction, alternative history, and magic realism.

>It's about people struggling in an empire controlled by a powerful mystic who wields a dark, corrupted version of a magical energy that influences and corrupts the galaxy
I think you're being way too specific, especially when none of this is actually shown in the movies. The Force being light and dark is just morals n shit, not really how those special powers affect the physical world.

It's basically just freedom fighters/terrorists versus the establishment, with the prequels showing how that establishment was created.
The force has as much affect on the characters as much as a telepath or telekinetic does, and that isn't anymore out of place than other series that use these sorts of powers.

People treat the tech in the world as mundane, everyday life things, same as we do. It a very real life quality we don't really see in most sci fi, where many series use it to WOW us or bring up the monster of the week.

Star Wars very much shows us a reflection of ourselves in their world and that makes it as sci fi as any other sci fi series.
It's not like Tolkien or other fantasy series that only wants to create myths.

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>>87836266
>10 fantasy comic books
in addition to examples given, if you allow webcomics (pic related has some):

- Digger
- Kill Six Billion Demons

>>87837505
Both Star Wars and Star Trek have gods and magic. Only difference is SW treats it like magic.

>>87854621
which one?

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>>87858443
Calling characters like Q "aliens" isn't really all that different from calling it magic.

They don't even consider the Force to be magic in the Star Wars universe anyway. In a universe where there's shields, tractor beams, and faster than light travel, they don't view it as anything special, even when its chocking them.
Before their shit got burned and genocided, the jedis just view it as a source of power; something that can be observed, scienced, and studied through various means. How it's controlled is the spiritual/religious side of their practice.

>>87854193
Sword & Planet is a Fantasy sub-genre. You basically take a relatively modern Earthling and throw them on a primitive planet where their modern technology, philosophy, culture and so on is what makes them superior. Usually ending up marrying an Alien Princess and becoming King- or going back to Earth.
Planet of the Apes subvert it, as you probably know, at the end it's revealed it's not another planet but another time.

Despite the countless permutations of these stories for the last 100 years. People today just don't get what a Genre is. They think it's a setting and will call a plot cliche as if it has nothing to do with the convention that define the genre in the first place.

>>87858443
wrong

On a movie note, The Huntsman: The Winter's War was better than expected. Too bad they don't even try to make a lot of stuff like back in muh 80s.

>>87858524
The one with quadrupeds we can't talk about

>>87855987
>The humor isn't very funny since its not relateable.
Eh maybe it takes a bit of effort, but Monty Python and the like got it to work.

Because nerds were rehashing Tolkien for so many decades that there is an absolute glut of quality high fantasy. People are fucking sick of it, and the ones who aren't are faggots who need everything to be new since comics and cartoons from more than 20 years ago are icky and gross.

>>87849884
Feminists are already tracing your IP. Your balls gun be collected.

>>87836196
Mighty Magiswords, Adventure Time, Star vs the Forces of Evil all have shades of it.

>>87846298
Which is funny, because GOT is basically exactly like Tolkien. just without the god point of view, telling us, yes Sauron is actually real.

Like, remember the men, and regeants, do NOT know Sauron is real. Just like all the kings of Westeros dicking around, not believing in magic.

Elves just have more presence then Forest children, who had been wiped out. and Gandolph/Sauromon are actually known wizards instead of the various Cultists like Melissandra, whose wizardry is at times, questionable. Yet even in LotR, Gandolf rarely preforms actual magic. Fireworks and shit...

>>87859365
>They don't even consider the Force to be magic in the Star Wars universe anyway. In a universe where there's shields, tractor beams, and faster than light travel, they don't view it as anything special, even when its chocking them.

THEY DID IN THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY

REMEMBER EVERYONE WHO DIDN'T EVEN BELIEVE THE FORCE WAS REAL

>>87861482
>Like, remember the men, and regeants, do NOT know Sauron is real.

What? Gondor was right on the border, so they knew. And Theoden didn't hesitate to join Gandalf once his curse was lifted.

>>87837505
>>87849425
It's a space opera at best. It was never considered sci-fi when the movies came out, every science fiction publication took the time out to explain why it wasnt science fiction, same with ET.

>>87836222
Even shit like WoW is basically sci-fi nowadays.

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>>87863200

WoW probably has more actual sci-fi than Star Wars. If nothing else, it at least has in-game inventions that can affect in-game economics.

>>87840225
Brandon Sanderson writes sorta like Robert Jordan

>>87863923
He's also a one trick pony of magic systems, his prose isn't very good, and his Mormon sensibilities prevent him from having his characters curse or do anything more than handholding in romances.

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>>87849813
If anyone wants to read high fantasy with historical influences that shows great attention to aspects of medieval life/culture then check out the Red Knight by Miles Cameron, first book in the Traitor Son Cycle.

The author is an educated historian(BA in Medieval History) and a passionate reenactor who both organizes and competes in reenactment events.

You can read about him on Wikipedia. He also has some videos on youtube explaining and demonstrating how medieval weaponry/armor actually worked. On his wordpress, With Pen and Sword, he goes into greater detail about topics on medieval life.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Cameron
https://1phokion.wordpress.com/

>>87865406
This series made me realise I can't handle realism alongside inconsistent power levels and an improbably lucky/competent protagonist. I guess that's pretty autistic.

I will say actually the human vs. human stuff >>> the stuff in the wild.

>>87855817
>Besides, Star Trek mumbo jumbo is as fake as Star Wars'. They may try to explain it, but that doesn't make it anymore realer or sci fi-ish than Star Wars.
This.

>>87863966
>prevent him from having his characters curse or do anything more than handholding in romances.
I haven't read the guy but this sounds fine to me honestly. That's the way I like my fantasy, sort of innocent.

>>87865611
The way he goes about it is offputting, at least to me. Like those Orbit gum commercials or whatever.

because people base it upon what they want out of it when they are the one making it,
for worse or for better.

blame them for not enhancing a part you wanted?
go make your own and test having a good idea?
a lot of people don't share their ideas even if they're great ones because people are scum anyway.

you're more likely to see a screwed over deep-thinker release a great game on accident over a developer that meant to release a game and doesn't regret it later even when it's awful.

if you really want it bad enough just make your own shit rather than bitching about missing it.

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>>87848463
>he doesnt combine magic and technology to sail through space

>>87866320
man, i sure loved "Disney`s Spelljammer". The Giant Space Hamster race was a nice twist.

>>87863966
>He's also a one trick pony of magic systems

Well, he broke a little with his typical magic systems in Steelheart and the sequel whose name I don't remember but I think it was Firebrand. He made a good combination of a more primal approach, still being analyzed from a scientific point of view, but it doesn't have many rules at least for now.

However, good his characters can be so awful. I feel he's good for creating worlds but very bad for creating characters, which in fantasy kinda works because the setting tends to be the main character, but still I sometimes want to punch those fuckers in the mouth.

Seven to Eternity and elfquest can be counted as fantasy. But why would anyone want more fantasy? Most of it is stupid over explained gibberish

>>87866446
>Giant Space Hamster race
What character was that?

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and then you have this shit right here

>>87866684
I think probably because what isn't stupid over-explained gibberish is really fucking superb.

>>87837059
pretty much this.

>>87844206
>>87839627
>>87839608
Looks like a forest gnome.

>>87836196
Americans are ignorant of European folk tradition so naturally they don't care for it.

European comics still embrace it.

>>87866712
John, Amalia et al? I don't know.

>>87867080
Reminds me of D&D 3.5's pet OC gnome, yeah.

>>87843274
>The Mars Space Race and post-new age environmentalism and SJW culture
these two are opposed irl though

the SJWs are already freaking out because Trump is taking money away from earth science in order to fund the space race.
they think space is not important compared to caring for wogs on earth

>>87867364
>these two are opposed irl though

I think that may have been Anon's point.

>>87836266
Not 10, but only things I've actually read:

Fables
Asterix
Usagi Yojimbo
The Sandman
Cerebus
Spawn (IIRC has some fantasy plots)

Not a lot of high fantasy. But fantasy doesn't have to mean Tolkien either, so I think it all qualifies (except possibly Spawn).

>>87867364
Exactly. I foresee extraterrestrial colonisation vs keeping our origin planet a viable home being a major theme in sci-fi in the coming decades.

>>87867418
the earth will be fine
hell the increase in CO2 is creating a massive bloom of vegetation across the planet just over the last 30 years

people living here will have a hard time though, which is the SJW argument. we can;t abandon wogs to go into space and we should stay here forever to take care of them.

meanwhile those same poor people have their own space programs in the works (or already functioning in the case of India/China) and don;t need our help at all.

ironically a space race would do wonders for the equatorial third world since space launches are all from the Tropics.

>>87867364

This has been a thing longer than SJWs have been around though, and for the same reason and attitude: Focus on earth and 'issues' here, nothing out there to care about. it's why the space program is degraded compared to the 80s.

>>87836222
>I learned an alien language
>that gives me amazing time travel psychic powers!

Yeah, pretty much.

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>>87867495
>>87867498
We just need to get off Earth already and let it heal itself.

>>87846525
>khajits LITERALLY stacked themselves to the moon while high on skooma

Que?

>>87845867
lol, look at this jock pretending to be a nerd.
ok, """"NERD"""" name five lord of the ring characters.
Can you even name, """bruh"""?
I bet you are buff as fuck and bangs all the chicks, and never touched a book, filthy scum.

Name two macguffrins in LoTR.
I double dare you.

>>87867713
sick burn

>>87867713
Maeglin, Melian, Tuor, Eonwe, Cirdan

Nauglamir, Anglachel

;^)

>>87866320

>never ONCE explained how they breathed in open space
>not even some throwaway technobabble for five seconds

I know there's suspension of disbelief but god damn did that trigger me the first time i watched that.

That captain did strange things to me as well

>>87867776
nice google'ing, young padawam (thats a jedi apprentice, as in STAR WARS jedi), but you still need to train more ten years before reading as many books as me.
I even own a kindle. No fucking biggie.

not him, sorry ;-; but I wish I was... so I could have your (you) my litterate prince from the web

>>87867776
Nauglamir did anything other than being pretty?

>>87867925
Sure, a whole bunch of people die for it.

>>87867894
I don't actually like Tolkien that much tbf senpai.

>>87857197

No it doesn't. There is no nuance to any of the sides in Star Wars. It's literally dark vs light and uses none of the tech to examine humanity. If you replaced all the tech with magic nothing in the story changes.

1984 is a thousand times more sci fi than Star Wars.

>>87867925
The whole Nauglamìr deal was being a deliberate ripoff of the Nibelungenring. Of course, as everything else, it started super close to early Middle Ages sagas and then evolved into a coherent, more independent high fantasy tapestry that was more about characters and less about retroactively writing the story of how Middle-Earth became VII century Britain.
But I digress, basically in the early Tolkien canon, where elves were glorified fairies and dwarves were just crafty barbarians, it was much more important to the stories of what was to be called Doriath and Tùrin. It was super cursed by both greedy elves and hateful dwarves so everyone who wasn't super pure ended up corrupted to further the curse

>>87836196
Fantasy is harder to write than Capeshit.

Even harder to draw too.

>>87854193
>pic
I just realized a lot of these characters are from the movie... was that from a later wave of toys?

Because DC is too busy trying to make money via nostalgia and Marvel is too busy trying to pander to the new wave of "Ironic" comic book fans.

Why do you think God of Thunder slowly got drained of the Swords and sorcery feel?

Because swords and sorcery is based but difficult because parody or sub-par swords and sorcery shows badly and neither company dares to tread uneven ground.

>>87847999
Zettai Bouei Leviathan was pretty much a pen-and-paper RPG campaign animated.

>>87868421

Maybe it's because high fantasy is shit?

>>87868421
>Limiting your scope to DC/Marvel

>>87868477
Fun fact.

Slayers was the creators DnD party.

Overlord and log Horizon are based on the same game of DnD the two creators played.

Dungeon Meshi is also a DnD game.

All of them save the Slayers guy have frequented /tg/ and /tg/ has actively shaped the canon of Log Horizon.

So that's pretty neat.

>>87868542
>implying anyone else is good.

I cannot name a single good Fantasy Comic that has been released since Dungeons and Dragons.

And I blame /co/mblr for Rat Queens.

>>87857936
>webcomics

>>87868599
Oh, Sorry, kill 6 billion Demons is technically a comic.

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>>87868637
Yes, webcomics. Your point?
Here are some more.

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I imagine a huge aspect of it is how a majority of fantasy related media is just plain shit.

Yea LotR did great, but there are loads of other fantasy movies that suck so hard. The D&D movie, the last several King Arthur movies, Scorpion King, last Conan movie, Eragon, Malefecent, Snow White and the Huntsman, Your Highness and majority of the crap that came from the 80's outside a very small few watchable gems.

Fantasy movies just plain suck. To the point of becoming synonymous with shitty made movies that only nerds can draw some level of entertainment from. Plus being associated with D&D, Larper's and Ren Fair geeks they are going to repel normies rather than attract. That and now more shows and movies actually go out of their way to make fun of the genre and the fans of it.

Comic books at least have some casual fans from the media attention, cartoon series and tie in merchandise. Plus they make consistent decent movies each generation. Comic movies can spread from over the top adventure, gritty realistic, fun action movie. Fantasy is really bogged down with trying to copy all the RPG tropes. If they get gritty with it then they make edgy sword fantasy, if they go over the top it is compared to Disney Princesses. It has too many negative connotations in the eyes of the audience.

>>87842556
At this point, that's been subverted more than it's been played straight.

>>87836405
>The original D&D books weren't really trying to be Tolkien though.
No? They had no problem using his version of elves, which was vastly different from previous conceptions(i.e. small magical sprites who create toys and cookies). The original D&D pamphlets featured several creatures that were the copyrighted work of Tolkien, like hobbits, Balrog, Nazgul, and barrow wights. The game emphasized an adventuring group of varied races and capabilities, working together to defeat evil on wondrous adventures. OD&D borrowed so heavily from Tolkien that they faced legal action and had to revise future printings to exclude the borrowed material.

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Since this a high fantasy thread, im about to finish the thran. Any /co/mrade that recommends a good high/dark fantasy book or lengthy graphic novel. I havent read bloodlines nor way of kings but I want to have backlog nonetheless.

>>87869361
>They had no problem using his version of elves, which was vastly different from previous conceptions(i.e. small magical sprites who create toys and cookies)
That's only partly true. You see, back in the Middle Ages, elves actually were like Tolkien's depiction of them (see Sir Orfeo and Lanval). Post-1500, however, fairies went from being beautiful yet dangerous superhumans into little winged tricksters (see A Midsummer's Night Dream). Tolkien was actually rehabilitating a conception of elves that had been long lost (although the works that have since followed in Tolkien's footsteps have largely forgotten this)

>>87869257
What's your pic from?

>and majority of the crap that came from the 80's outside a very small few watchable gems
Gonna have to disagree there, there were tons and I can't remember many that sucked. Of course it could be bias.
The 90s were seriously barren, though.

>>87867239
Amalia and the doctor's species reminds unamed but in their species men are supposed to look like canines and women like felines. John Silver's species was unamed and undescribed.

>>87836196
>no world of 'what if the universe just kept having elves, dwarves, orcs, goblins etc. post industrial-revolution'
>technology with a magical source, automobiles and farm equipement powered by aether and mystical forces
>potions and spells in new industrialized supply and demand
>a wacky new sitcom on ABC about a black iron dwarf, a high elf, and an average wacky human stuck together in an apartment too small for the three of them, in SAN FRANCISCO

>THIS SUMMER
'WHO PUT MIRRIAM GEMS IN MEH FLAGONS?!!?'
*canned laughter*
'Flagons are an antiquated artificial construct of our limited universe, consumption of alcohol is better presented in a glass jar or-'
'OH IMMA GLASS YUUU, YA STRANG BEAN!!!'
*canned laughter*
'Did somebody say my name?'
*whoops and cheering*
"EYY! IT'S HUGH, MAN!"
*canned laughter*
'Sorry I'm late for the morning mashup, I got a hot date, with a HOT date last night.'
*crowds goes oooOOOhhh*
'Were you flirting with atronachs again?'
*canned laughter*
"Hahaha, no she's a real vixen, like a major beast in the sack. Said she felt we really connected and she wants to see me again tonight to see the stars, and this rare lunar thing!'
>dwarf and elf look at each other
'What?'
'Uh, laddie, did ye happen ta be wearing da silvah necklace I gave ya lahst week?'
'Nah, it didn't work with my style. Why?'
'Welllll Ah-'
'No please, let this happen. In all the eons I have rarely perchanced on a circumstance this delicious.'
*canned laughter and cheers*

>>87868571
If that's the case, why the fuck is Overlord so much better than Log Horizon?

>>87872156
FROM THE MAKERS OF FISHMAN P.I. AND DOCTOR SCREAMING FIREY SKELETON MONSTER
COMES A BRAND NEW COMEDY
ABOUT THE FELLOWSHIP
WITH A STING
AXES, BOWS and SWORDS

*catchy 90s sitcom music*
~Life's never been easy for anyone
It's full of dragons and demons and plans undone
But when you stick together you can it make it through
From vampires, and ents, and the rent being due

You have my sword
My axe
And my bo-ho-hooow~
It's not all elven bread and games, don't you know~
There's an ex on the call?
There's a gnome in the wall?!?
I'm sure if we can stick it out
We surely won't fall
You have my sword
My bow
And my ah-ha-aaaxe~
It's crazy going alone, there's no time to relax
Maybe we don't see eye to eye
Or even eye to knee
But here on Nob Hill
You're in GOOD
COMPANNYY~~~

>>87868571
>Dungeon Meshi is also a DnD game.

>>87872183
>DOCTOR SCREAMING FIREY SKELETON MONSTER
What are we talking like House or Dr. Phil here?

>>87836506
It's also inherently more relatable so people are able to more flexibly make stories with it.

With high fantasy people seem to get stuck with a formula of worldbuilding very quickly and it's quite banal. While with urban fantasy people can just write about their own town "but with magic" and at least the fact that it's about the writer's own town or wherever makes it distinctive in one way.

The entire comic world seems to be getting further and further away from fantasy. Most popular characters that have a fantasy background have it retconned into non explained pseudoscience. Magic is almost a foul word.

I think the reason might be that fantasy doesn't fit with our actual worldview. It's an age ruled by science without place for legends and myths, even major organized religions are crumbling. Add to that the fact that all of the hystorical past you can draw inspiration from is politically incorrect and full of implications no one wants to think about, and the only possibility for fantasy to keep existing is becoming either gritty and edgy, full of brutality, or becoming a ridiculous parody of itself, to remind us how stupid and inferior was the people of the past.

>>87873173
That was way more prevalent in the 80's and 90's, if anything the 00's and 10's have had a swing back towards fantasy and whimsical settings.

>>87873244

Mostly in cartoons. It might spread around, anyway. In general media you have a MCU where supposedly everything has a scientifically sounding explanation (I don't remember who said it, but supposedly there wasn't going to be true magic, only pseudoscience that's basically magic described with fancy words), and the Force being demoted from mystical entity to psychic germs.

>>87873604
Thor in the comics has always been extra-dimensional beings masquerading as gods, which is probably what they were talking about. Meanwhile, Doctor Strange which just came out is absolutely mystical in nature, not scientific at all. If you're looking for mysticism though, you generally won't want to look at Marvel (whose magical books are few and far between) or Star Wars (which had a single shitty retcon decades ago, and had already had EVERY single detail and possible tech explained in side materials beforehand.) Hell, with Star Wars the new film treats it as almost more mysterious and strange than before.

>>87873772
>Doctor Strange which just came out is absolutely mystical in nature, not scientific at all

What pissed me off it was that him was confirmed as his magic just being currently not understood quantum shit. And new Star Wars films basically treat the Force like a mutant superpower, just like LoK did with bending.

>>87874185
But the new film isn't quantum shit at all. Just because it involves multiple worlds doesn't mean it's scientific, it's drawing energies from otherworldly beings.

>>87863095
They didn't actually think it magic though. The "religion" is mocked and the powers Vader used were just ridiculed compared to their tech.
It's the same view Han Solo had.

>>87837817
Preach on. I wish Fantasy and Sci-Fi were more blurred, less distinguishable from each other as they once were (or at least could be).

>>87837871
To be fair, rich art quickly conveys all that information.

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>>87863183
I'm pretty sure they consider it sci fi, but not science fiction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDNrnpefGio

>>87837817
>>87837868
>Implying sci-fi wasn't always a "this is what shit will be like in the future"
Sci-fi always lines up with the science of the time, the Jetsons is what people in the 50's figured the future would look like, the cyberpunk genre was born from 80's fears of the current path of evolving technology, etc.

Sci-fi in a few decades will basically be an entirely different genre than current era sci-fi.

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>>87868102
>There is no nuance to any of the sides in Star Wars. It's literally dark vs light and uses none of the tech to examine humanity.
Death Star = Nuclear bomb
Empire = The gobmint using threats of terrorists to continue building weapons and taking away freedoms
prequels expanded on that even more
The force is pretty much there to make romantic fights n shit
George even puts some environmentalism messages into the series by showing the good guys as being closer to nature. Yes, it's weak, but that's Lucas for you
>If you replaced all the tech with magic nothing in the story changes
As i said, you can do the same shit with Star Trek. Most of their mumbo jumbo technogoopier might as well be magic.

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>Fantasy gives the author the freedom to do just about anything as the genre pretty much just means a story with fantastic elements
>Like 90% of them just ripoff Tolkien
You could write about legless horses that spin their tails to travel through the ocean like a motorboats and spit fucking electrical fire, why do you keep going back to "short dude who likes to mine shit."

>>87867536
>We just need to get off Earth already and let it heal itself.
Are you me? I'm trying to write a sci fi story where that's a plot point.

>>87877251
People only buy things they're familiar with. Creative and unique doesn't sell.

>>87878834
I think that's the saddest part about games/books/movies/cartoons/etc. Granted, there's chance something can gain a cult following, but the issue with that is it does the creator no good in the present/when it was originally released.

>>87836196
Sauce?

>>87867789
Well you could just assume it's a spelljammer thing with an oxygen bubble.

Good taste

but we can agree thought that dwarves>elves

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>>87880327
But what if the dwarves were the elves

>>87857936

>someone that actually likes Fritz Fargo

Surprising.

>>87877251
Because creative doesn't equal good, and it lets you get to the story faster if you don't have to explain the world so much.
If you write "Jack's a Xelnomorph" you'll need to spend a long time explaining to the reader what the fuck a Xelnomorph is and even longer for it to have an impact, whereas if you write "Jack's a dwarf", most fantasy readers are already on board.

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>>87880417
elves are better craftsmen than dwarves in Tolkien's world.
They made the 19 rings of power, btw

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>>87836196
Western producers/editors have pleb tier tastes that's why.
>TFW animoo/mango is full of high fantasy material.
GO BE A WEEABOO OP AND JUST FORGET ABOUT WESTERN MEDIA.

>>87882414
>full of high fantasy material
>its either the 367th iteration of the journey to the west or oda nobunaga is evil
wow how full

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>>87882443
>wow how full
You could just watch wizard has no sense of right or wrong and gives no fucks about it.

>>87882443
More like they're either comedy/parody or softcore porn. There's very few serious fantasy anime.

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>>87877251
Because Fantasy is a genre and the point of genre is more or less to trod in a wheelhouse of similar cliches and elements because that's what the author and their audience like. Diverging too greatly would make it cease to the genre they're aiming for and just have elements of that genre.

>>87884388
I want to hold hands with that Orc.

Shadowrun comic when

>>87869722
Either Joe Abercrombie's First Law (trilogy) or Steven Erikson's Malazan (10 book cycle) if you're up for more of a challenge.

Lynch's Lies of Locke Lamora is good too.

>>87855817
>>87865569
>Star Trek mumbo jumbo is as fake as Star Wars'. They may try to explain it, but that doesn't make it anymore realer or sci fi-ish than Star Wars

So? Did you not read the posts you responded to? Star Trek still holds relevance to the real world in it's setting and Star Wars does not.

Will the Scifi classification autism ever end?

>>87838457

weren't the ones in LOtR not CGI tho?

>>87879138
A Pathfinder supplement book called Ultimate Campaign.

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>>87887117
>Joe Abercrombie's First Law (trilogy)

Seconding this as a huge faggot who is hyper critical/super picky about fantasy settings. The first fantasy book series I have been able to enjoy since being over 25 (not that it makes me 3mature5u or whatever, I just found that as I grew older I fell out of love with a lot of it).

>>87891836
It qualifies as grimdark fantasy but there's enough dark humor in it to keep it palpable.

I can only say what I feel, not know. I'm no fantasy expert, really.

People have forgotten its roots. Fantasy is supposed to be fantastic, there is a certain mystique to it, a feeling of mystery as well as discovery. It would seem like an adventure tale, but it's not. Adventure tales can be fantasy, but fantasy cannot always be adventure. Moreover, mystery can be fantasy but fantasy cannot always be mystery, for I feel that for fantasy to work, a certain familiarity to the setting should be in place afterwards, and all the mysteries of its world should be in the background, there but not wholly known or in the forefront.

It cannot just be another world like Tolkien, or swords and sandals like Howard, or dreamlike like Lovecraft, or urban fantasy like Rowling. Fantasy is also a feeling, in which I all that I have said above takes place. Mystery in a seemingly fairy tail-like world, but not too unfamiliar to our own, that draws us in, and we become familiar to it, thought not all its mysteries are known for there must always be an air of unknowability (hence why the references to far-off distant events or things in Lord of the Rings prior to the publishing and less subtly: Tom Bombadil). And finally, what I feel is most important: that though you become familiar with the story and setting, it must always leave a feeling of regret. A sigh, knowing that this familiar world can never be real for all its fantasy, all that it makes if fantasy will be lost when it becomes real. It is a dream that cannot come true and must be forgotten when one is woken. And yet, you still feel the longing to return to it, to the place that you know but can never go to.

Many fantasy stories today are mere "power fantasies" or whatever they're called, mere escapism for the quick elation and satisfaction of the reader/viewer, and rehashing of ideas and cliches are just part of this, because it is quick and easy and everyone is already familiar with it.

Just my two cents.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97QkO7nAn68

Reboot fucking when?

Why bother? They'll never be able to recapture magic of this level.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkAbmWrqtC0

>>87892283
The entire movie is fantasy in its purest form.

>>87836196
Dragonlance fandom died off because Wizards of the Coast haven't let anyone write books for like almost 10 years.

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>>87892065

It has the distinction of having grimdark qualities while also not being up its own ass about it. I swear the only other thing I've encountered that managed to have this balance was fucking Drakengard, lol.

>>87893161
I agree about First Law, but hell, I always felt like Drakengard was one of the most pretentious games I ever played. The whole ending with the huge babies. What the fuck man.

>>87842023
Battle Chasers.

All ten issues of it. lol

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>>87893266

I wouldn't call it pretentious unless defying expectations in a weird/terrible way is just under that umbrella now (and it might be--subversion, misery, and weirdness are in style these days). In its time I felt that the "it's supposed to be awful" aspect to it was fresh/ballsy.

>>87866863
I'm confounded that this shit is popular in any way whatsoever. Japan just inhales the worst thing they can find sometimes.

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>>87893468
be afraid /co/. There's a high chance that Gate will premiere on Toonami especially since President-Elect Skesis with Snuffleupagus Wig will take the office in January.

Also immortal goth lolis and big titted rabbits with '70's bush

>>87893664
>President-Elect Skesis
What? If anything, Bernie and Hillary look a hell of a lot older than Trump. He may have goofy hair and orange skin, but he doesn't look that old for his age.

>>87849603
Do you have a link to this story time?

>>87893468

Sometimes the concept tickles an audience so much that the quality doesn't have to be too high. A good example of this is Attack on Titan (I like it, but I'm just sayin').