So what? They just kill off Patrick and they don't even

That's Rick "the hero must lose something every arc" Remender for ya! He even got fans excited by saying Toxin would return. But jackass was so in love with demons and shit.

>>87718239
don't worry, eddie is wearing toxin as either a pseudo agent toxin, or a giant monster toxin

>>87718239
Worst part of Remender's Venom run, no question.

His storyline was great. Fuck

>"lol lets just say he was beaten to death in a fucking gutter off screen that should satisfy them"

>implying he won't come back in a few years
If Mania came back Pat can come back.

>>87718845
mania wasn't dead

>>87718902
We never saw Pat's body, unless we see a body assume the person in question is not dead. This is capeshit 101

>>87718626

>and also Blackheart ate his wife and baby

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>>87718626
>>87718845
>>87718949
What a lot of people tend to forget is that Pat was actually a really shitty host for Toxin

Now, I don't mean for a symbiote in general - I mean Toxin.
See, when the kid was born from Carnage, he was essentially a baby, total blank slate. He had no concept of morality, of right and wrong, of how the world works or any of the internal mechanistic workings of men.

And along comes Pat who's answer to every question Toxin asks him is basically: "Because that's the way it is."

And when you're dealing with something with your own fucking symbiote, a little exposition goes a long way.
You don't just brush that shit under the carpet.

From a literary perspective, the Toxin run had great potential to be a philosophical and existential piece of work that asked a lot of hard questions about the presumed nature of the comic world and how those assumptions derived into our everyday lives. It could have challenged perceptions and asked the difficult questions about whether or not the things we've come to believe over the course of our lives are, in fact, the best from an objective perspective on the outside looking in i.e. Toxin's

But no - it's just Pat pawning everything off and saying "Just do what I tell you."

Dude was a bad host.

Ordinarily, I don't care for reboots but in this case, they need to wipe the slate clean and start over. Do it properly because this was some really wasted potential right here.

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>>87718267
it still hurts

>>87718267
Well, I asked him at a con why he killed Pat off, and he said he did it because Marvel told him to, and it's also why he killed off the hosts for Hybrid and Scream. Wanted to get rid of the old symbiote hosts I guess. But he also said Marvel could easily bring him back if they wanted to since he did it off panel.

>>87719628
Wait what

>>87721147
so you get Eddie Brock to host it

>>87718239
I want those stomach tentacles to jerk me off.

>>87718239

The current Carnage run has Eddie still wearing Toxin, and there's been some small hnts that Toxin's personality has been influenced by his first host being a cop.

Hopefully they epand on that before it's over.

>>87721147

It's been a long time since I read it, but didn't Pat by th later parts start warming up to Toxin? The shitty answers he gave him was because he still considered him an unfeeling monster like the pic shows, but given the chance to get a longer run I imagine they would have developed a more healthy parent/child relationship.

Coming back to your pic, I was really excited for that diary to become an important development tool for both Pat and Toxin.

>Pat keeps writing his diary entries and giving his true feelings unaware that Toxin actually reads them by night
>Pat remains stern and sorta distant from Toxin, but as the symbiote starts living by Pat's moral code and starts making it his own, Pat's diary entries begin to (first begrudingly, later openly) praise Toxin's progress, until at one point it starts to sound like a proud father praising his child
>Use of this tool becomes an end-of-arc thing, like a more tasteful "what we learned today"

Plenty of chances for heartwarming scenes with a creepy goo alien.

The ideal way to try and make this shitty death an opportunity is to abuse flashbacks of Pat when Toxin monologues, essentially turning Pat into Toxin's own Uncle Ben.

>>87723105
It's been a long time since I read it, but didn't Pat by the later parts start warming up to Toxin?
Nope
There was a scene where he came across a cop-killer and Toxin just went nuts on the guy. It was all off-screen but a few panels later we see Pat in the shower monologuing about he was washing chunks of the guy off of him.

Toxin basically says to him "So I'm not supposed to kill but you just let me kill that guy. Even though you were sworn to preserve life and you told me to swear not to cause trouble when you let me out in the evenings. Dude, what gives?"

And Pat STILL keeps pawning him off.
I swear it was only because he was Spiderman's bitch in that arc that he even agreed to go along with it in the first place.

>>87722962
And instead of giving him free reign to explose what was admittedly an interesting combination, you just turn him into another faceless emotionless government drone - most notably personified when he gets tasked with bringing in Carnage
Again

Yawn

>>87723105
>essentially turning Pat into Toxin's own Uncle Ben.

That's not a bad idea at all.

>>87723226

Went and reread the comic, yeah Pat fucked up big time trying ti reign in Toxin.

It makes sense to be apprehensive and distrust the spawn of fucking Carnage that's living in your body, and yeah a lot of shit was going o with his life, but geez, at some point you gotta realize he's honestly trying to learn from you and actually answering might be a better method that shutting him down. Worst part is that Toxin seems genuinely hurt about Pat's opinion of him and starts trying to fix his mess just like a toddler hiding the stuff he breaks from his parents.

Still, I continue to believe it could have all worked with a longer run. Peter started an asshole as well and that made it all the better when he started realizing and went on to become a better person. With Pat's family issue pretty much resolved at the end of his run, there would have been more time to have a proper conversation with Toxin.

>>87723711
Yep that's it right there.
The scene with him walking down the street with a stack of laptops had me in stitches, I must admit

Really, it needed better direction and clarity of purpose from the start. If it had been written as a deliberately morally-ambiguous series with Toxin as a b-lister who interacted and gauged the acts of other heroes and directing his conclusions to the reader, it could have been a phenomenal run, it really could.

>>87723691

There were signs of Toxing legit seeing Pat as a father figure (despite all the taunting and bantz), so his dead might have been quite a shock for him. And from what we saw in Venom Space Knight, a symbiote's first host leaves a deep mark on them.

There's a good window of time between the end of Toxin's run and Blackheart offing Pat Offscreen, a good chance for a writer to make the two actually bond and make Pat's death into quite the traumatic experience for Toxin.

And while we're at it, it's also a good opportunity to turn Blackheart into Toxin's own white whale/Green Goblin. Bam, you got a nemesis and a motivation for a symbiote character where the actual symbiote itself is the protagonist, with Eddie as the jackass host to complement him.

>>87723835

It could still be done if somone at Marvel cared unlikely, only now you'd have Toxin's own opinions, with two voices in his head tring to shape him: Pat's shaky moralfag teachings, and Eddies anti-hero cynism.

But who are we kidding, best case scenario Toxin gets Bendis'd (or should I say Klyntar'd) and purified by his home planet, middleground scenario he just remains Eddie's discount Venom suit, or worst case scenario he gets Blackheart'd again and used as generic symbiote monster.

>>87723711
>Went and reread the comic
Got a link?
Or a dump?

Besides the introduction of pure Venom isn't Toxin the only symbiote to actually have conversations with it's host? Why aren't they taking advantage of that?

>>87724043

No time for a dump sorry, might try later today if the thread doesn't die.

Try readcomicsonline, perfect for the lazy asss who just wants a quick read without having to download.

>>87724083
If I had the Toxin symbiote I would have it talk dirty to me while it jerked me off.

>>87724083

Because Blackheart wanted a symbiote pet, and later Marvel wanted a symbiote antagonist for Agent Venom.

They can still try again, we've seen plenty of writers fix mistkes and dick moves from previous writers, like the last issues of of Venom Space Knight coming back to Mania's plot that was completely ignored (even with a subtle fuck you to thar decision)

Eddie seems willing to let Toxin loose rather than keep it sedated, and early on Carnage he actually let Toxin himself take control for a while, so there's a chance as long as Carnage get a gooe enough reception (how's the run going by the way?)

>>87724107
symbiotes are not for sexing

>>87724083
No. Not even remotely.

The Venom symbiote has spoken with all of its hosts. And has been doing regularly since it first bonded to Eddie. Except in the Bunn run of Flash-Venom, when Bunn randomly decided it couldn't talk to Flash, despite being mentally linked and having done so before a number of times, and needing some weird orb thing to communicate.

Scream talked to Donna, too. She was a psycho, though, and got the symbiote's voice confused with her own schizophrenia (see Venom: Seperation Anxiety).

The rest of the Life Foundation symbiotes all talked to Scott Washington frequently when they became Hybrid.

Carnage talked to Cassidy all the time, too. If I recall, he is shown talking to the symbiote right away, when Spider-Man first encounters him in the abandon wearhouse, before he morphs into Carnage in ASM #361. The Carnage symbiote also talked to Ben Reilly constantly and Tanis Nieves (during the Family Fued story).

I recall Scorn talking to Nieves also.

>>87724386
Says you.

>>87725273
prove that symbiotes are for lewd then

>>87725770
Those huge tongues, those tentacles, the ability to shape shift and create any orifice you want, It can jerk you off, suck you off, take your cock, and literally do anything you can sexually imagine.

Where are the other Venom kids right now? Last I saw them they were all sharing a dog after Deadpool made Carnage have an existential crisis through mind games.

>>87724412
I thought venom couldnt talk to flash because of sedation/whatever shield did to it. So the best it could do was psychic hints or dreams

>>87725832
I'm gonna need photographic proof of this anon, otherwise it simply isn't true

>>87726339
I really really wish there was. You don't know how much I wish for there to be.

>>87724412
I hate to ask but do you have any issue numbers for Scott and the Hybrid symbiote? I'm interested.

>>87719628
>>87722898
What he said, when did this happen?

>>87726409
Venom: Along Came A Spider. It's like a bonus story in the back.

>>87726475
Thank you very much anon

>>87726243
Its never actually explained. It just cannot talk randomly at some point.

Also, how does it read his thoughts, yet cannot talk to him? makes no sense.

>>87726475
He shows up a few other places, too. He was in a handful of New Warriors issues, for example and a couple other backup stories in the 90s Venom minis.

But yeah, Along Came A Spider is definitely the books to read for symbio-talk.

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>>87726036
As far as we know they're still with the dog, and Deadpool told him to go back to the government.

>>87726809

We need Deadpool to give eldricth Carnage another lesson.

>>87726925
No, we don't.

>>87726681
>shield
same way you can be super tired/too sedated to talk but you can still listen, i dunno. i guess just trying to fill the blank i didnt know was there

Toxin is Eddie's now.

At least until the end of this upcoming Venom run when Venom inevitably goes back to him and the Toxin symbiote is put back in the closet of purgatory until some writer happens to remember he exists.

What is it about symbiotes that makes it so that writers never know what to do with them?

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>>87727283
I honestly don't know

>>87727283
>What is it about symbiotes that makes it so that writers never know what to do with them?

I have no idea at all. I'm working on a symbiote fanfic right now and have more ideas than I know what to do with. Through various drafts, gotta trim out the fluff and unnecessary stuff.

>>87724412

I think how chatty a symbiote is depends on the depth of its bond with its host. Carnage doesn't talk to Cletus anymore because they're so tightly integrated that "Cletus" and "Carnage" are one and the same. Venom talks to Brock and Flash a lot because they tend to keep the symbiote at a metaphorical arm's length. It got to the point that in Space Knight, Flash and Venom could exist separately for a while.

>>87724412
Wasn't it a bit different with Gargan? If I recall, it only talked to him once, and it wasn't clear if that was just him being crazy or not in Thunderbolts.

>>87727421
>Carnage doesn't talk to Cletus anymore because they're so tightly integrated that "Cletus" and "Carnage" are one and the same.

You don't know that. Its been shown that they have lots of "internal" conversations in the past. Cletus rarely audibly addresses the symbiote.

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>>87727439
Before that, he talks to the symbiote all the time.

>>87727525
What issue is that? I read all of Ellis' Thunderbolts.

And I still hate Gargan as Venom and always will.

>>87726373
>>87726339
Ask and ye shall recieve
/aco/
>>962943

>>87727603
Its from Civil War: Choosing Sides (the first Civil War, obviously).

Also, remember that the Venom symbiote CHOSE Gargan as its host. Not the other way around.

>>87727766
>Also, remember that the Venom symbiote CHOSE Gargan as its host.
Now hang on a minute. It's been a long time since I read it but last I checked, Brock was dying of cancer and auctioned off the symbiote to the highest bidder so he could use the funds to make reparations for all the damage he'd done before dying.
Gargan was the highest bidder.

How does that equate to the symbiote choosing him?

You can't tell me there hasn't been one host who tried to have sex with their symbiote.

>>87727960
Scream and Agony are possible people

>>87727626
>deleted
O-oh ok

>>87728015
Nah it is there, it just isn't linking for some reason
Head on over
There's a symbiote general thread in the catalog
It's been there for a few days now

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>>87727883
>Gargan was the highest bidder.
No, Don Fortunato was the highest bidder. He bought the symbiote for his son Angelo. In an attempt to make his son, in his eyes, valuable.

Angelo is the second Venom. When the symbiote realizes how weak willed he is and the fact that he isn't ready to kill Spider-Man (or anyone, for that matter), it leaves him.

It ends up bonding to Gargan after that (pic related).

>>87718239
I mean he is dead for sure, but it's comics so I guess there's a teensy tiny remote chance we could see him again someday. I wouldn't bet on it, but never say never.

>>87728055
>isn't ready to kill Spider-Man
The symbiote just won't let it go will it?

>>87727883
That's not what happened at all.

Some gang boss won the auction and gave it to his son, Angelo Fortunato, to toughen him up. He immediately tried to kill Spider-man, but failed because he sucked, and then Venom hated him for running away, so he left him mid jump between two rooftops. Then when Gargan was about to get his scorpion suit again, the Venom symbiote was in the room with him and bonded to him.

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>>87728055
The symbiote leaving Angelo and letting him fall to his death.

>>87728055
>>87728088
>>87728086
Must have missed out the Angelo part then
Actually, now that I think about it that does sound familiar

So, out of everyone in the Spiderman rogues gallery, why Gargan?

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>>87728180
Beats me. I guess they thought they would give everyone a classic monster Venom back, but they went about it all wrong. I don't even like straight up evil brain eating Venom.

>>87728249
Gargan did get pretty creepy during Dark seeing, when he would fondle prostitutes and then eat them. Even Bullseye was creeped out by him.

>>87722898
>>87726458

Remender's social media.

>>87723105
Toxin has no personality anymore has it even shown any personal emotion or speech since the original run?

>>87729283
No. When it first bonded to Brock, it was just "generic monster symbiote" and now its just Brock's personality.

>>87729283

The only hint of his personality is a comment by Brock about him being somehow different, probably because of his first host.

Apart from that, there have't been any chances for Toxin to have a proper conversation with anyone. Our of combat he's sedated and in combat he's fighting Carnage and monsters so we can't really see if Pat's morals are still on him..

>>87728425
I feel like that was more of a mean joke than anything.

>>87721225
With everything else that's happened with him at Marvel, I don't find this hard to believe.

>>87718239
RIP

>>87721225
Well that's fucking dumb

>>87724097
Bumping before bed in the hope there will have been a dump when I wake up in the morning

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>>87732210
I'll just post the first one

>>87732375

Wait m8, I was about to dump the Venom vs Carnage comic that actually shows the origin of Toxin.

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>>87732400
well shit i've already started the trains already going

>>87732424

Fugg

>>87732655
I still want those stomach tentacles to jerk me off.

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and that's it

>>87732710
STOP SEXUALIZING THE TOXIN

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This is the current Toxin btw

>>87734173
Everything about him just looks off, I think the eyes look better white

>>87734173
I want to be jerked off by those chest tentacles.

>>87735790
The original look is great because it emulates Spider-Man which in itself is an amazing design.

>>87735832
TOXIN WILL NEVER FUCK YOU ANON

>>87735953
That...

That hurt Anon...

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>they added a fucking closet homesexual in there for some reason

>>87737819
It's the tentacles.

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>>87737860