Why is it such a parroted opinion that Eddie was a "boring"

Because /co/ grew up with Mac Gargan and Agent Venom.

>>87702123
There couldn't be THAT many newfags, besides this is a complaint I've heard from older comicfags than me growing up too and just seems to get passed down as a commonly parroted thing

>>87702233
Brainwashed into thinking 90'S ARE BAD, BAD! There was nothing wrong with Eddie Venom, except him fighting literally whos in his minis.

>>87702115
I think Venom should be looked at like Mr Freeze, a character that had a shitty motivation that got better due to Adaptations

>>87702285
What adaptions?

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Brock got boring because he was a character who got a lot of page time despite being kind of "stuck" in place. He was never going to be allowed to kill Spider-Man (at least not at the time he was introduced) but he was locked hard into the "psycho killer with a heart of tranished gold" characterization, and nearly all of his stories until the Paul Jenkins era were just riffs on that

And while people tried to give him depth at that point, he was unfortunately not as entertaining as a tortured soul who is dying and relying on a killer alien as life support as he was when he was Freddy Krueger's personality inside Arnold Schwarzenegger's body, wearing the xenomorph like a suit.

If you read just the stuff covered in the first two Venom trades and then the origin of Carnage trade, he's fine. It's only when you start including the stuff with Peter's parents, the limited serieseses, Maximum Carnage, his appearances in everyone else's books that you have a character who is spread too thin when his greatest strength is just that he LOOKS really cool

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>>87702833
superior spider-man would've been better if it was about brock getting venom back, killing peter, and swearing to be a better hero in his place after his death

>>87702854
Literally Last Hunt

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>>87702778
mostly TAS.
Eddie being a rival fotographer to Pete has been so ingrained to the publics conscience that im surprised Marvel hasnt retconned it to that yet

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>>87702268
Some of those minis were all right though.

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>>87702833
I liked Venom's evolution into becoming a hero/anti-hero, because he was never pure evil to begin with. Nostalgia is part of this sure I can admit that much, and I can even admit it wasn't handled the best it could have, but it's not nearly as bad as people make it out to be in my opinion as I enjoyed his solo books and even if it is bad on some critical level to people big deal, there is literally no character who doesn't have "bad" comics.....the issue with Venom is not that he's a bad character or a boring one but that he wasn't given time to grow or given respect by future writers at all

Good Venom stories could have easily been written as he was by somebody who cared about the character, the problem is they weren't so "Venom" and everything associated with it has just become gimmick after gimmick

I think it's really not fair at all to say "the only thing going for him was looking cool" which is kind of the point of my original post, people say this, I don't buy it. Venom post initial appearance as a Spidey villain was a unique anti-hero, certainly unique enough from other Marvel anti-heroes like Wolvie and Punisher, the character already had "depth" with his skewed or warped views of morality and his unique bond with the symbiote, making them a one man-two man-team, there was so much potential in the character that simply wasn't ever given a chance

>>87702115
>it wasn't simply a cool looking costume with some adverse effects for him as it was Spider-Man

The symbiote never had any adverse effects on Spider-Man in 616 continuity. He just got rid of it because he thought it was gross to be wearing a living creature. That's literally it.

>>87702268
>except him fighting literally whos in his minis.

What? Most of his minis featured big name characters crossing over. And the "literally whos" like Rune or Xenophage were fucking great.

>>87702833
>wearing the xenomorph like a suit
You have no idea what a Xenomorph is, do you?

>>87703070
And lets be fair TAS is by FAR one of the best tv/movie/game adaptation of the character.

>those crazy breathing noises

>>87703110
>because he was never pure evil to begin with

If you only read ASM 298-300 (his earliest appearances), it would be really hard to make that argument.

His entire story is that he's out to murder Peter. And that's really it. He didn't get developed till a bit later, with the skewed moral schtick.

>>87703375
You wouldn't consider the fact that it controlled his body without him knowing it an "adverse effect"?

>>87703443
He wanted to murder Peter Parker because he was Spider-Man, and he hated Spider-Man because he held him responsible for ruining his life, thus making Parker the bad guy in his mind while he was an innocent victim

Not evil, just nuts.

>>87703477
Not really. It wasn't doing anything malicious or that he otherwise wouldn't do.

>>87703493
>murder isn't eeeeevil, its just mean, guise.

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>>87703070
You mean that isn't his origin?

>>87703509
Murder isn't "evil", it's subjective to an extent but by your definition all soldiers are evil, Wolverine is evil, and if Wolverine is accepted by other heroes that makes them as good as "evil"

>>87702115
I love the green saliva Venom.

Also the jaw.

>>87703577
In the comics he was a reporter, not a photographer...that's the key difference.

>>87702115
I always saw Brock as an Anti-Hero.

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>>87703598

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>>87703609
to go a bit more in detail, he was a reporter for the Daily globe who got into a case with Spider-man and Sin eater, he thought he revealed the Sin eaters identity until eventually Spidey found the real Sin Eater wich discredited Brock and got him fired from the Globe.from there on he finds the suit, he swears revenge on Spidey, founds out his identity and now hates Peter too for some reason

>>87703609
Short version, Brock was a reporter who wrote a story about someone he had reason to believe was a serial killer, he told people who they were to expose it.....Spider-Man finds the guy who was actually the killer(the guy Brock talked to was just some nut) and Brock loses his professional credibility and made out to be a fraud, had to accept shitty job for tabloid magazine or w/e and his wife left him, Brock blamed Spider-Man for ruining his life

>>87703598
And pretty much everything else. Eddie doesn't even show up until he becomes Venom. He isn't Peter's rival in any way what so ever in the comics.

He's just some schmuck that writes a false story about Sin Eater and then gets fired when Spider-Man finds the REAL Sin Eater during The Death of Jean DeWolff.

>>87703577
Found the casual.

>>87702123
I grew up before Venom was a thing at all.

I've almost always found him weak. His first appearances were strong, but he was overused and the character never recovered. Separating the suit from Eddie is simply salvaging an interesting part of a dead character.
The other way to do it would be to out him on ice for 15 years or so, like Hobgoblin- but that ain't happening.

I liked the reminder part of agent Venom, but we're all the way back to boring trash again.

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>>87703717
>who got into a case with Spider-man and Sin eater

Well, kiiiiiiiinda. He isn't, like, in the thick of it. He doesn't even show up in a comic until after he becomes Venom. All his backstory stuff is off panel.

Spider-Man doesn't even meet Eddie until he first shows up as Venom (pic related). Peter ONLY knows about Eddie from the news articles he read about his fake Sin Eater story.

>from there on he finds the suit
More like the suit finds HIM. Brock is depressed and goes to the church the symbiote has been hiding out in, with plans to commit suicide (after praying for forgiveness) and the symbiote stops him and bonds with him.

>>87702854
Well, that would have been terrible, but it still might have been better than Slott's wild wankfest

>>87703742
So? I never thought of Eddie as having to be Peter's rival....I thought of him as being a guy who blamed Spider-Man for his life turning into utter hell

>>87702268
>>87703106
Some totally were, but there were also awful ones, like license to kill and on trial.

>>87703823
Does it matter that he showed up as Venom first? His rather exposition heavy dialogue clearly implies that his backstory was planned all along

>>87703829
The hell? You said the only difference between the 616 version of the character and the TAS version was that Eddie was a reporter in 616, rather than a photographer like in TAS.

That isn't true. He is a completely different character.

>>87703925
Is he really? On superficial levels, sure....it's been a long time since I've seen the cartoon but I'm fairly certain that even though the origin is switched around his motives are still entirely the same, which is "spider-man ruined my life now im going to fuck with him, and oh I hate Carnage because I'm actually a good guy just not a fully good guy"

>>87703845
His backstory was was created alongside the character yes, but none of it was was planned when the Death of Jean DeWolff was being written by an entirely different writer.

>>87703845
So you're telling me that they had Venom planned from all the way back in October of 1985, when the Death of Jean DeWolff story was published (by a completely different writer, no less)? Despite Venom not showing up until May of 1988 (when ASM 300 was published)?

If so, you're full of shit.

Michelinie retroactively added Eddie Brock into things and tied him into the Sin Eater story, rather than have him be tied to it from the beginning.

>>87703443
>later, with the skewed moral schtick.
Objection. Someone's been posting Venom's first appearance issues recently, and even in those he's already lamenting "the loss of innocents" even as he suffocates guards.

>>87703425
>>those crazy breathing noises

Still trying to figure out how someone would describe those sounds on paper.

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>>87704100
Accurate. Pic related is from Amazing Spider-Man #300.

>>87704087
>>87704013
Maybe I didn't word it properly, but once again....does it matter? The dialogue explains what Venom's basic origin was....and that was carried on into Brock's story. The basic concept that was outlined there is the same one that would be expanded upon regardless of the small inconsequential details being ever planned ahead of time.

I honestly thought Eddie was way more interesting after his glory days as Venom. Him getting cancer because of the symbiote and selling it, becoming Anti-Venom and going full born again Christian. The recent stuff with him going round sucking up other symbiotes I don't care for, but that last period produced his strongest stories IMO.

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>>87703609
Some serial killer fuck was going around killing serialy and Spider-Man was hunting him. Meanwhile, Reporter Eddie Brock was contacted by a man claiming to be said serial killer and wanted Brock to get his side of the story out there. Brock accepted, and planned to use his exclusive connection to the hot topic serial killer to grow his career.

It worked for a while, at least until Spider-Man caught the real killer and it was revealed that Brocks was actually a compulsive confesser. Eddie became a fucking joke and ended up writing for tabloid rags, his wife leaves him, and he sinks into poverty. Rather than taking RESPONSIBILITY for his actions, he blamed it all on Spider-Man and swore revenge for no reason

>>87703406
Neither do you.

It's Greek, and literally means alien form. James Cameron didn't invent the term.

>>87703498
Wasn't it beating criminals senseless and making Spidey super aggressive? I'm a cartoonfag tho

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>>87704516
>Some serial killer fuck was going around killing serialy

ahahahaha

>>87704618
No. That ONLY happens in the cartoon.

Literally, all it does is occasionally take his body out for joy rides at night to go fight more criminals. He also hooks up with Black Cat and hangs with Jean DeWolff once or twice.

Peter wakes up tired and doesn't know any of the night activities happened as he was sleeping under the mask the whole time (Black Cat and DeWolff just think he isn't in his normal "talky" mood).

>>87704587
>alien form
You're stretching here. "Xeno" just means foreign, not necessarily alien. Alien is related, but not the same.

>James Cameron
I think you mean Ridley Scott, numbnuts.

>>87704618
NO! It was just a costume.
>seemingly unlimited webbing
>instant transformations/ disguises
>storage
That's it. The only kinda "bad" thing it did was take his body out at night sometimes to fight crime so it could feed. Peter flipped out when he learned it was alive because that's gross and got rid of it like Reed suggested. Then it broke out and tried to get back to Peter and he rejected it again, and tried to kill it with church bells. Taking the hint, the symbiotes dragged his unconsious body from the bells and fucked off, meeting Brock moments later in the church bellow.

>>87704689
Nope. Xenomorph isn't mentioned in Alien at all. It's first used in the sequel.

Fag.

>>87704689
Aliens is the movie with more exposition about the aliens, and their names (dropped by Paul Reservation character iirc).
Written and directed by... You guessed it, James Cameron.

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I only have one thing to say about Venom.

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>>87704815
Me too!

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I'll admit it, first comic I owned was Maximum Carnage and I still love it today

>>87704877
Maximum Carnage is not 1 comic. Its 14 comics.

>>87704087
Getting some serious deja vu.

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I like Eddie. His first appearance was as a great villain, and then I liked when he became an antihero.

I think he was awesome as Anti-Venom though and that it was a good progression.

>>87705116
Wat?

>>87702115
The most memorable thing about Eddie was that the toy got banned for saying "I wanna eat your brains".

Other than that, he was a bargain basement Doom with his warped sense of nobility when they face turned him in the 90's

>>87705938
>Other than that, he was a bargain basement Doom with his warped sense of nobility when they face turned him in the 90's

Uh, what? How was he anything like Doom....he was more like some kind of cross between Spider-Man and the Punisher with taste for cheesey dramatic dialogue

>>87706266

He blamed all of this woes on Peter.
>Doom blames RICHARDSSSSS!

Went off to lord over his hobo kingdom in San Francisco
>Doom rules Latveria

Thinks he is working for the greater good whilst murdering
>Doom kills those that get in his way while trying to shape the world in his perfect image

Do I really need to keep going???

>>87703425
>those crazy breathing noises
Can you give me an example?

>>87706548
right in the beginging too
https://youtu.be/ekbJYsEBbn0

>>87704179
It's a cross between a growl and a hiss, just like an alligator
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_yyvTRVoZQ

>>87706826
But how would you describe that in a literary sense?

>>87706347
You're really stretching there, anon.

>>87706843
>his voice is like a rumbling hiss... Sound slike simething you'd hear come out of a gator

>>87706347
Please, keep going. I'd love to hear this

>>87706843
They probably just had "scary growling noises" or something on the actual script. The VA probably ad libbed it during recording.

>>87706843
You mean like the sound effect you would put in a comic?

I dunno. Something like:

>HWEEAAAH!

But if you don't know what it's supposed to sound like, it sorta just comes across like YEAH!

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>>87702115
The villain seeing themself as the hero is pretty standard fare though. If not that at the very least they see their actions as being for the greater good.

Sinestro sees himself as the hero
Lex Luthor sees himself as the hero
Norman Osborn sees himself as a hero in his own twisted way
Doctor Doom is a hero
Apocalypse sees himself as a hero
Gul Dukat in DS9 sees himself as a hero
Poison Ivy sees herself as a hero
Biff Tanen sees himself as a hero
Early Magneto sees himself as a hero
Davros in Doctor Who sees himself as a hero
Rorschach sees himself as a hero
Comedian does too to some degree
etc

Venom in of himself isn't that boring. The problem he has is he was written around the late 80's early 90's and helped usher in the 90's grimdark as an example of a character that wasn't complete dogshit that was sort of pretty damn edgy and its hard to uncouple him from that.

What you have to understand is during the 90's Marvel were seriously pushing Venom as the next big thing. He was everywhere. Even got a series or two centred around him, but the thing is none of them were stellar. Sure a couple were alright, pretty good if not a product of their time, but nothing fantastic that makes you think. Fuck. Here's a character that EVERYONE needs to read.

He's never really had that. Ever.

Venoms problem isn't that he's shit, or boring, its more that he's mediocre. Ok. Alright. A perfectly serviceable character who was thrust into prominance by a company desperate to ride the wave of the "new mature comic books for adults" that The Dark Knight Returns, Watchmen, Batman Year One et al nailed, but failing to grasp the nuance that actually made those books good.

>>87706875
>>87706916

Brocks wife rejects him after he uses his power to save her
>Dooms mom rejects him after using his power to save her

Peter asks Venom for help when faced with insurmountable odds. Venom lords this over his head.
>RICHARDSSSS asks Doom for help when faced with insurmountable odds. Doom lords this over his head.

Venom takes a protective stance over one of Peters loved ones, Mary Jane.
>Doom takes a protective stance over one of RICHARDSSSS loved ones, Valeria.

Venom's whole existence can be traced back to his failure at his job
>Doom's whole existence can be traced back to his failure at his school

I don't know what you guys aren't getting about this

>>87707363
the fact that none of those weak similarities makes him a bargain basement Doctor Doom?

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>>87706347
But Doom literally is working for the greater good. The Wakandian Panther God saw into all the possible futures and found the only one where it didn't all go to shit was the one where Doom ruled.

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>>87707553
It's very inconsistent. You have the image in the OP, these>>87704877, >>87703823
It varies by artist I guess. I don't think about it anymore because hey, it's a shape shifting alien

>>87707436
Doom only thinks he is working for the greater good. The only reason he got the pass was because he believed it as well without any hesitation.

>>87707594
Was curious because Venom ate things so wondered how it'd work if Venom's mouth is at Eddie's face.

>>87706953
>You mean like the sound effect you would put in a comic?

No, I mean, if you were writing a novel. What adjectives or descriptors would you use to illustrate the same feeling as hearing that?

>>87704194
Makes me wonder why he never tries this on Spidey.

>>87707996
He has. If I recall correctly, he tries it (and some other maneuvers like stealth mode 'n such) later when they fight on an island (when Venom thinks Peter is dead).

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>>87707876
Just go with whatever works for you and call it a day

>>87707996
Because he's a fucking loon and wants him to suffer with as much pain as possible. First time he had him captured his plan was to leave him webbed to the bell, and the gong would repeatedly pound him until his chest was mush.

Thinking about it now, in their big battle on the beach he does that and drags Peter underground through sand then punches him out

>>87707876
There is no actual answer for this. Its open to your own interpretation. Every artist depicts it differently.

>>87702854
Superior Spider-Insert would have been better were it written by anyone other than Slott.

>>87651316

>>87671929

>>87692428

>>87706905

>>87708223
Literally anyone. Fuck, Kate Leth could write a better more cohesive story and she is fucking atrocious.

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>>87704846
Marvel wishes Venom had even an ounce of the nuance and skill the writers of Judge Dredd and 2000ad in general have/had

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>>87705421
I'm going to go right ahead and say it

Dan Slott has some great ideas, he just seriously lacks execution

>>87708290
>Dan Slott has some great ideas, he just seriously lacks execution

Pretty much everyone agrees on that.

>>87708309
Do they? /co/ seems to fucking hate him

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/co/ will hate me for this but i want Venom to have one last good villian arc
hes best written as a foil to spider-man in the same sense as Zoom and The Flash
i feel like theres some unexplored potential

>>87708322
Being unable to properly execute on great ideas can actually be more infuriating than just being shit all around, so it makes sense to me.

>>87708339
I agree. They tried turning him into the next big anti-hero in the 90's but we've moved past that edgy angst now.

Make Venom Great Again

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>>87706682
>that fucking 90s CGI Cosmos segment out of nowhere

>>87708322
Yeah, and for good reason. His execution fucking sucks. He has great starting concepts, but the way things play out is predictable as hell and some of the worst fanfic-tier garbage around.

Spider-Verse sounds amazing as a sales pitch, right? Just look at how that piece of shit came out.

>>87708375
WE'RE GONNA BUILD A SONIC GUN, AND (using the credit card related memories my other has) PARKERS GONNA PAY FOR IT

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>>87708395
I'm personally of the belief that main lines of certain comics should be written by committee. The plot lines at least, where there's people in place to say what sounds shite and what doesn't, while offshoot series a la "web of Spider-Man" or "Green Lantern Corps" get their single writer privileged where people can take chances on stuff

>>87708551
Grab 'em by the webshooters

>>87709107
Venom is still good, though. I'm looking forward to the new series coming out in just a few weeks.

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>>87709320
I drink to what could have been

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>>87711204

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>>87709428
Gone too soon

>>87702115

A combination of Marvel overusing him while at the same time having no idea of what to do with him, which is why his pseudo-ongoing of minis and one-shots were all over the fucking place with barely any coherence or consistency.

>>87707970
I'm wondering this now, too. Trying to think of how I would describe it.

I can only think of calling it "reminiscent of a large reptile", but that doesn't really do it justice.

>>87707229
This is pretty on point.

Venom was hyped into eternal memedom despite not actually having any really strong stories behind him. Carnage of all fucking people has a better track record. As a result of this and the fact that Flash-Venom wasn't overexposed and had a pretty strong start, people who don't have nostalgic bias tend to err more towards Flash being a more entertaining character.

Not to say you can't prefer Eddie, but that's a minority opinion among people without nostalgic attachment to the guy.

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>>87702115
FUCK YOU EDDIE, YOU FUCKING LIAR

>>87712481
>that fucking book
>my fucking heart

>>87705421
Still butthurt that he didn't last longer.