Are American animation working conditions all great like Pixar

>>87638071
appreciate

>>87638071
What are the horror stories behind the Japanese animation industry? I've heard it was horrible but I've never looked into it.

As for the American one, it seems to be ok except you would have to worry about the network you work for screwing you over and cancelling your hard work.

>>87638141
Imnguessing a stricter enviroment that cares more about product then the workers and their living conditions.

>>87638071
Canadian animator here!

First of, American animators don't exist. If you're an animator you work in Canada or Asia (Korea, Japan, India, or China specifically).
But American Storyboarders and Designers exist. And they all fucking suck. They get paid insanely well, especially at Dreamworks (for some fucking strange reason), but they can't keep their storyboards on model, they constantly ignore putting in BGs, and their BG keys look nice, but are assembled by 4 year olds because they constantly miss overlays and underlays. Continuity is a fucking nightmare.
I swear, the american Animation industry is run by 4 year olds who hand off their sloppy piles of shit to an "overseas" studio to turn it into gold.
/venting

>>87638071
Isn't most shit made in South Korea for both japan and America.

>>87638141
If I heard correctly, most studios just hire amateur yet capable animators and they get paid squat. These jobs are insanely temporary and as such these blokes are expendable.

Well like, Pixar makes movies. The Japanese serfs makes shitty shows.
I bet working for Studio Ghibili is legit

>>87638437
Not really. Miyazaki is a senile hack that also smokes

>>87638253
How do i get into the animation field, leafbro? I want to be a cartoonist, but i havent even started college yet.

I don't know but a lot of animating is outsourced to places like Korea.

>>87638437
lol
Everyone at Ghibli studios was treated like cattle like every other Jap animator. Miyazaki wasn't afraid to crack his whip on his workers.

>>87638529
Apply to:
Calarts
Sheridan
Ringling
Cap (vancouver school)

In that order.
Calarts and Sheridan are on par education wise. But Calarts feeds into major American studios like Disney and Dreamworks while Sheridan feeds into Canadian studios that no one cares about.
If you're American and go to Sheridan you'll do fine. It won't be AS easy as going to Calarts, but you'll find work no problem. Ringling is for Americans who couldn't get into Calarts. Not bad, but not Calarts. Cap is for people who want to work in Vancouver Canada. There is a shit load of service animation jobs in Vancouver. DHX, Titmouse, Bardel, etc. All are starving for animators. Cap is a 2 year program, costs like 4 grand, and accepts pretty much anyone. But half the studios in Vancouver are Cap grads. You'll never go high up the ranks in Vancouver. But you'll always have work.

Going to any other school is flushing your money down the drain. You'll get a shit degree and will be working at Starbucks for 2 years before you give up and work in insurance. The RARE exception to this is people who are already so good they didn't need school to begin with. And that's not you.

>>87638253
>but they can't keep their storyboards on model

I've seen Japanese storyboards, they aren't much better in that regard.

Though we're talking about something that's supposed to be a rough guideline for the animators usually knocked out in a few days. I'd be a little more forgiving about the off model-ness if it didn't look like complete shit/incomprehensible personally.

>>87638141
Shit working hours, shit pay, insane deadlines.

>>87640131
>Though we're talking about something that's supposed to be a rough guideline for the animators usually knocked out in a few days

The problem is. In service industry animation, the animatic is your bible. It's not really treated as a "rough guideline" it's more "do this exactly because we don't want a retake if the client doesn't like it. Because retake could mean hours of extra work you aren't getting paid for since you're on quota and retakes don't count to your weekly quota

>>87639912
>Going to any other school is flushing your money down the drain.

There's also Miramichi on Canada's east coast if you're stuck there and really hard up.

It's not ideal, but it's not even close to flushing your money down the drain. Nearby (relative to Vancouver) Halifax and Montreal both have plenty of animation work. I'd advise someone to relocate to the west coast if they can, but if they can't then Miramichi is an option.

>>87640131

The quality of the storyboards aren't judged by how on-model they are, but how much information they impart and their clarity. In this regard, the Japanese do a better job simply because of how many storyboards they draw. For a typical cartoon storyboard panel that would have a drawing with a description of the actions written below and a few motion lines, the Japanese storyboarder would draw a series of panels that could work as an animatic. There's a lot less ambiguity this way for the animator.

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>>87638071
>>87638141
Pic related is almost a call for help.

>>87640361
>Miramichi

Nah, probably just better to flush your money down the toilet. You could pull a better animation education off Youtube and tumblr. And the only networking connections you'll get from Miramichi is the lowest of the low who couldn't get into anywhere else.
>Halifax and Montreal both have plenty of animation work
Halifax has DHX and Copernicus (and a couple basement animation studios). The tax cut fear fucked Halifax and the only people who still work there are people who were born in Nova Scotia or the people who have been blacklisted from every other studio. Halifax is really weird. Lots of natives have no desire to leave so Studios pay you shit and treat you like garbage knowing they can get away with it cause there are only 2 that hire anyone.

>Montreal
This is all video game animation or French studios. This is a whole different thing because video game animation is entirely different than TV/film. And the French studios only hire people fluent in French. which doesn't apply to 99% of the people reading this.

>>87638437
Ghibli "was" legit.
They actually were known for having a decent working conditions and employee benefits, but now they're on the verge of death.

>>87638071
>implying CGI shit is real animation

As for Japanese side, I think the working conditions and pay are better now than they were 10+ years ago. That's why Japan outsources to Korea as well now. Here's an interesting video on Bones' process.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=H9K2RFft3Uc
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Ot835TbqlHA

>>87640717
>>implying CGI shit is real animation
wew lad

>>87638141
>What are the horror stories behind the Japanese animation industry?
Can't speak for Japan. BUT there is a company called Mercury in Canada that has an insane reputation.
They pay shit and will work you to the bone.

To save money, your desk is shared between a night shift and day shift. If your desk mate has to work late, you're fucked. You just have to wait around for them to finish and THEN your shift starts (you could be waiting hours before you START your shitty night shift).
You work quota (meaning you have to turn in a certain number of frames each week) so even if there is a holiday that week, your quota doesn't change. You're still expected to turn in the same amount of work. Couldn't get your quota done? guess you're working this weekend and/or overtime (you aren't paid overtime hours).
You are also paid per frame APPROVED. So you work hard and turn in 700 frames this week, but only 30 of them get approved because Disney changed a character's color at the last second and you had already animated him? Tough shit, you get paid this week for your 30 approved frames. Hopefully it doesn't take too much time to recolor those 670 unapproved frames and you can maybe afford to eat next week.

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>>87640731

>>87638141
People have been known to live and sleep under their desk because of workload and deadlines. Though that's not unique to Japan or animation.

Animation has always been a shitty gig.

>>87640414
source?

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>>87640414
>>87640779
Shuffle

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>>87638253
>First of, American animators don't exist.
they do, they just are all over the age 70

The working conditions in Japanese animation studios aren't even exclusive to animation, Japanese culture is just like that.

Basically, the expectation there is that your work and your life are he same thing, if you aren't working you aren't living. Why else do you think neets and extreme counter culture are a thing there, the mainstream culture is legitimately oppressive. And I don't mean that in a hurrdurr oppression Olympics kind of way, I mean life in japan as part of the working force is legitimately fucking dire.

And the sad thing? They have to be, they don't have the population to afford to have everyone be lax, there's not enough people in japan to afford anyone not doing backbreaking work to make ends meet. They trick Chinese people into moving there as """interns""" just to basically force them into slave labor at some clam harvesting dock or at a sweatshop.

>>87640436
>This is all video game animation or French studios.

Not since three years ago. I'm currently finishing my bachelor in 3D animation in Montreal and animation jobs are BOOMING here.

The situation right now is that a LOT of studios are outsourcing animated movies there. Since Dreamworks doesn't make their films anymore, they partly get made here. Cinesite has been starting up their own animation studio there since this year and they have the contract of making 9 animated feature for movie theaters. The studio that made The Little Prince (ON animation, which is french) is coming to make a studio here in the next year.

And when we talk about VFX companies, we have Rodeo FX, Framestore, Micross, Oblique etc. I worked at Rodeo and there were a LOT of english only speakers and the company was perfectly fine with that. Framestore is also half half french english.

In fact, if you want an easy start in the industry, I really recommend Montreal or Vancouver right now. Canada is doing insanely well.

>>87640361
Nah, animation work in Halifax dried up after the film tax credit dried up. There's still some work, mind you, but it's not as good as it used to be.

>>87640779
boku no pico

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>>87638253
>leaf claims horrible things about a huge industry in another country he's probably never even been to

>>87641139
sounds familiar isn't it?

>>87640734
That Mercury that's animated for SvTF, Lion Guard and the first season or WoY?

>>87641103
>They have to be, they don't have the population to afford to have everyone be lax, there's not enough people in japan to afford anyone not doing backbreaking work to make ends meet.
That... that doesn't even remotely make sense. Japan has population of 130 million people, and very high population density besides. I'm sure Japan has its share of problems, but "not enough people" doesn't even remotely figure into it.

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>>87638253
>If you're an animator you work in Canada or Asia
>Canada or Asia
>Canda

>>87641159
Not really, no.

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Were the animators behind Sausage Party really abused?

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>>87641370
They were grilled pretty hard.

>>87638253
>Canadian
>animator
Well memed.

>>87641379
carlos!!

>>87640734
How does Canadian labor laws allow that?

>>87638253
Dreamworks and WB pay the lowest out of all the studios.

There's always so much negative speculation and second hand info on the Japanese industry in threads like this one. It almost comes across as insecurity.

However bad you believe their domestic industry is, they at least have one. It's stable and produces 3 dozen new IPs every season. They outsource because they have too many shows.

US cartoons pay worse than Japanese slave wages once you factor in the outsourced animators that actually produce what you see on screen. Bottom rung animation jobs are shit everywhere.

>>87640980
Dick Williams is Canadian though.

Basically what >>87638253 said.

The pay from what I hear is really good compared to the rest of the world, at least in LA, since they have a strong union. It fucked me up to hear how much they make even in starter positions in TV animation, it's more than you could make as an experienced art director here.

>>87647097
>Dreamworks and WB pay the lowest out of all the studios.
Can't speak to WB. but I know a ton of people at Dreamworks. And while they might get paid less than Disney/whatever. They get perks out the ass that compensate for it. And Dreamworks has a 3000 hour contract with Netflix for content. So you have job security if you aren't a fuckup.

>>87644712
>How does Canadian labor laws allow that?
Mercury skirts laws by having people work as "contractors". Also the Ontario animation job market is SUPER competitive because Sheridan dumps out a hundred talented grads who don't want to move from home each year (and a bunch of other schools pump out hundreds of job hungry untalented idiots who will take any job they can get and will work for half of minimum wage). And since everyone in animation is afraid their contract won't get renewed. They won't tattle tale on Mercury.
>>87641327
>>87643132
>Canadian animator
I don't understand what's being meme'd here. Canadian dollar is worth about half of US, we all speak english, Van is a 3 hour flight from LA, and we have 1 of the top animation schools in the world. And we don't have a union. We are the "overseas" service animation work now. Asian studios are cheaper. But the language barrier causes so many problems it's just easier to go with Canada.

>>87641195
Yeah, that one
Mercury handles most of the Disney Tv shows because they do it for a fraction of the price of everyone else (for all the reasons listed above) and because they somehow tricked Disney into thinking Harmony is better than Flash, and they hold the patent on Harmony.

>>87649737
Everyone on this board has an evil Canadian-Animator-Ex-Girlfriend that makes them hate you all forever.

Simple as that. The women in your animation industry are evil.

Especially Vancouver ;P

>>87649882
It's important in life that you respect yourself
Don't date an animator. Love yourself enough to never put yourself through the insanity of dating someone in animation

>>87650147
She was evil bro.... and cray---cray like a fish.

(Are all women in animation toxic run-arounds)

LOL

>>87638141
Different studios have different cultures and conditions and pay differently. In-between animators are paid less than key animators, and animators are normally paid per drawing.

The Japanese Animation Creators Association says that in-betweeners average $867 per month while key animators average $2,200. The highest paid position is series director at $5,000 per month (but like many positions this isn't something you'll be doing all the time).

The mentality seems to be that being an in-betweener is an entry level position you're supposed to graduate from, but that's not really sensible since in-betweening and key animation are different jobs and both are needed.

>>87638256
Japanese productions are mostly made in Japan and outsource only some work to South Korea and other countries. When you look at the credits it's overwhelmingly Japanese names everywhere. American productions outsource all the animation work. And I believe the main reason why the anime industry outsources is a lack of manpower, and not cost saving.

>>87638437
Japan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IP9dFPNuh9A

America:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLvZ1rzHDSQ

>>87638620
>like every other Jap animator
The anime industry is not a monolith.

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>>87651201
>comparing animated SITCOM to anime

>>87652918
They're both animated television shows.

>>87653208
This is an american student film: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tgue81LVZ4E
you're taking the worst and comparing it to something thats in an entirely different league.

>>87653231
I can make whatever comparison I want to, and I hope you don't think that video is helping your case.

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>>87638141
https://www.buzzfeed.com/danmeth/this-american-is-one-of-the-only-non-japanese-working-in-ani

>>87641207
SHHH, WE NEED PEOPLE TO THINK JAPAN NEEDS IMMIGRANTS TO SURVIVE.

B