I want to get into drawing western cartoons, but I'm not

You baiting mate?
Le4arn to draw realistically then study artists you like

>>87496783
Go to a community college anatomy drawing class. Learn to build up the form through basic shapes. Learn to render through observation and move away from static and stiff poses.

Cartoons still use the fundamentals of drawing that you would learn through what I just said.

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>>87496783
Exacly. Go for it, you have potential.

>>87496783
fundamentals, always. There are some great free art books you can read online. I believe they're by andrew loomis. Just look up the name and you'll find them.

>>87497076
>>87497161
Yeah, I can do all that, but I don't really know how to ignore it enough to make western cartoons.

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>>87497389
>Unironically reading loomis

>>87497442
I read loomis and it was shit. Sometimes I wonder where I'd be in my art career if I started with a good art book.

>>87497411
Just work at making your shapes simpler and more exaggerated.
You'll get the hang of it.

>>87497411
>>87497161
>Learn to build up the form through basic shapes. Learn to render through observation and move away from static and stiff poses
It's literally just this. Doing the hard work makes it second nature to draw imaginary forms but still retain the benefits of knowing what you're doing.

>>87497442
>>87497499
WHO THE FUCK SHOULD I START OFF WITH THEN

>>87496783
whats that from?

>>87496783
Master anatomy first, and then you can distort it properly in a stylized way to create cartoons.

I want to learn how to draw, which pdf from this drive should i begin with?
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B8VO-JQCy3HgZ0U3QkVvVm4wREE

>>87497626
Hero of Rhyme.

>>87497613
I started with Proko. Look him up on YouTube. He's way good.

>>87497636
>then you can distort it properly in a stylized way
That's my problem. I don't know how to distort it.

>>87497674
Flow actually wasn't bad on this nigga, I'm surprised.

>>87497790
The rapper or the animation? Because either way, I agree.

>>87497728
Are you a professional with 15 years of experience? Or a young person learning how to do things?

If you're the latter, and you can't understand why you are unable to do something without practice and failure, then you have a learning disability.

>>87498003
Practice what? Did you not read what I posted?

>>87498003
what the fuck is he supposed to practice on though

>>87498039
>>87498043
ANATOMY.

POSES.

FUCK'S SAKE.

>>87498078
what the fuck is he supposed to read/watch up on to know anatomy though. he needs to know what to start off from

>>87498099
>>87497161
FUCK'S SAKE.

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>>87498138
>going to college
be serious senpai

>>87498078
Again, did you not read my post? My anatomy and poses are fine, but they look too realistic. I'm doing portraits, not cartoons. That is the ENTIRE point of the thread.

>>87498183
post your drawings fampai

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John K's blog and the Preston Blair book, enough said.

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>>87496783
It's like this: If you have to ASK and don't already have the motivation or the drive to draw on your own, then you might as well never bother. Really.

Drawing for life you have to go outside and sketch up everything and anything you see, no matter how stupid or ugly it might seem. If you want to learn how to make art -- read: 'how to get five hundred likes on tumblr/deviantart/whatever per post' -- in a couple of days and in the comfort of your desk, you won't make it. You really will hate it.

>>87497411
Kek

>>87497442
>>87497499
Stop. Lommis is fine for learning to draw from imagination, it personally helped me a lot.

>>87497613
Honestly just learn and study the fundamentals, then study artist you like. It takes a lot of time and practice.

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>>87498234
>learning from John K.

>>87498261
there;s absolutely nothing wrong with asking how to draw
people need assistance to know if they're doing everything correctly

>>87498306
He gives it to you for free, thats all that matters.

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>>87498261
Gettin real tired of people missing the point of the thread.

>>87498306
>how to get raped

>>87498329
what book did you read from to learn how to draw

>>87498346
I took art lessons, so I learned from one on one rather than a vague book.

Visit /ic/ and you'll learn easily if you spend one minute looking at the very first post

>>87498329
Exaggerate and simplify the features you consider the most important, think in terms of basic shapes, etc.

>>87497411
>Yeah, I can do all that
Post your work

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>>87498313
Asking how to draw is one thing, but asking how to GET INTO drawing in the first place is a different thing altogether and largely futile. Probably motivated from seeing popular artists on the web get flooded with comments/requests/questions/memes/etc. and wanting some of dat attention for themselves as well; as it ever happens on the internet.

>>87498382
The /ic/ sticky is cancer. It has some good stuff, but is mainly just used to jerk off Loomis.

>>87498416
>asking how to GET INTO drawing in the first place
Good thing nobody here did that.

>>87498416
There's nothing wrong with doing that though.
Forcing yourself to draw is how I got good.

>>87498446

>"I want to get into drawing western cartoons, but I'm not really sure where to start."


>>87498452
>Forcing yourself
>yourself
Thus, if you have to ask somebody else to do it for you, it's not 'forcing yourself' anymore.

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>>87498399
So basically, take all the hard stuff and make it easy? (i.e. take a face from a big circle for the head, two little circles for the eyes and two squiggles for the nose and mouth)

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>>87498483

>>87498480
Western cartoons. Not drawing in general. Learn 2 reading comprehension.

>>87498504
2epic

>>87498504
This disgusts me. Are all these done by the same artist, or is the majority of Western art that bland? (Good post, btw)

>>87498480
>Thus, if you have to ask somebody else to do it for you, it's not 'forcing yourself' anymore.
But no one in this thread is being forced to draw, he's just asking a question on HOW to draw something.

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>>87498483
Yes basically, just draw with a lot less detail, if you want leaving out stuff like irises or even pupils, make bodies and faces follow more basic shapes like circles, rectangles, triangles, or whatever, until you find a style you like.

>>87498550
>the majority
That's 5 characters.

>>87498712
>Implying it gets much better

>>87498483
If you think that's too simple why not just make a cartoon in your normal style?

How good is learning from loomis from the point of view of a newfag of drawing?

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>people falling for f/a/g bait

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>>87497654
there are some pretty great reaction images in the first one

>>87498749
That's what I'm looking at. This thread has helped me get a better grip on cartoon vs realism, and I really do prefer more realistic designs. I'm just afraid of it becoming comic book tier art.

>>87498760
Right? And the sad part is that all you see is /co/ genuinely trying to be helpful.

Sometimes I remember that in comparison to other boards /co/ really is love.

>>87498752
this please
i want to get into art as well

>>87498888
>all you see is /co/ genuinely trying to be helpful.
See >>87498261

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>>87498728
"better" how? Better as in more different from those 5? Because it does.

CG is also an option. On the plus side, it's much easier to get into without needing a history of art. Plus, it's much, much more "learn as you go", because you can start to produce (shitty) stuff after some basic lesson and chisel your skill from there.

On the other hand, it's ridiculously time consuming, hard to get to look right, and you'll need to partner with someone who can draw reference images for you.

>>87499227
>CGI
>good
kill yourself

>>87499237
CGI can look good if the style and flow of the animation is good

>>87499227
Ehh. CG doesn't really appeal to me. I prefer flat dimensions.

>>87499255
CGI will never, and i repeat NEVER, be as good or impressive as traditional animation. It's shit and will always stay that way.

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>>87498868
Maybe look into some Bruce Timm stuff, that might be about the level of balance you're looking for.

>>87497411
You don't ignore it, you stylize and exaggerate or subdue elements.

If you can build up a form through basic shapes then it's easy to exaggerate/subdue the form.
>>87497442
Loomis is fine.
>>87497613
Some people like to rec Keys to Drawing by Bergson instead.
>>87498039
>>87498043
Practice distortion. You know, that thing he was referring to in the post he replied to.

Lrn 2 reading comprehension.

If you don't understand "where to start..." Well, you might be retarded. You start by taking something and distorting it.

Draw a face accurately, then draw it distorted, simplified, exaggerated, ect.

This isn't rocket science.

>>87499237
The only way hand-drawn animation is viable without an entire studio of animators is to use digital puppetry, which generally looks much worse. It is, however, viable for a single person to produce decent-looking CGI if they're dedicated enough, because the workflow for longer animation is faster.

Otherwise, you could easily spend a year+ on a single minute of good-looking 2D animation.

>>87499402
The pay off for a good looking 2D animation is honestly far better than anything I have seen done in CG.

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>>87499322
No, that's exactly what I'm trying to avoid. Sadly, the best example I can come up with on the top of my head is Littlest Pet Shop. Maybe just without the blimp-sized heads. Teen Titans Go also has a pretty decent art style.

>>87499442
If there's a style that you're going for you could just try drawing in that style, figure out what aspects you like, and then incorporate that into your own style. Rinse and repeat until you have a style you like.

>>87499442
Well, practice drawing characters from those shows then. Then try and draw something else the same way

>>87496783
Hey OP, draw comics instead, that way you can do what you want without selling out to a company who destroys the thing you sunk so much time into.

>>87499442
>Teen Titans Go also has a pretty decent art style.
No it doesn't.

>>87499481
>>87499497
Thanks for the info. Will apply.

>>87499584
Yeah, I'd like to do a webcomic, but I just didn't want it to come off as me wanting to do a marvel kind of art style.

>>87499442
littlest pet shop has a shitty as fuck art style

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>>87499603
>Has no problem with LPS
>But does with Teen Titans Go

>>87499668
No, YOU DO!

Animation is an inherently useless skill to learn. It's too labor intensive to produce anything substantial on your own. The only time you'll ever need it is if you somehow have the connections to end up as an animation director, to sketch out small flipbooks as references for the korean animators.

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The day western cartoons gets over it's simplicity boner is the day they'll ascend.

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>>87499839
So never?

>>87499839
They don't want to go through all the effort of doing hard work.

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>>87499839
The day they do, it will be a political statement.
>mfw

>>87498712
Exactly, since there are barely 10 cartoons going at anytime.

>>87499210
>implying tough love isn't helpful
Exactly how coddled were you growing up

>People on /co/ can't give a guy a straight answer
>Still think they're being super helpful
loving every laugh.

>>87499839
Yeah, western cartoons should strive for a single digit framerate in order to accommodate your preference in over-designed characters. I know that's not representative of the whole, but I honestly would prefer simpler designs in order to have smoother motion and feel. Just having an after-effects gasm thrown on every other keyframe really pisses me off in modern anime.

>>87500434
Western art killed Pokémon.

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>>87500434
Detailed animation > simpler animation
Western cartoons will always be inferior.

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Jesus christ /co/, is this like some sort of SNL bit

>>87500518
Please don't ever use Flip Flappers as an example of prime Japanese animation.

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>>87500556
Kill yourself, /a/.

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>>87500584
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me you little bitch?

>>87500518
Now post a webm of the rest of the show where they barely move anything but their mouths.

>>87500719
they don't call it flip flappers for nothing

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R8 my cartoon.

>>87500434
>would prefer simpler designs in order to have smoother motion and feel
Yet they do absolutely nothing with it almost 90% of the time, every cartoon is still standing around talking, followed by reaction face at a joke.
What's the point of having boring shit look smooth.

>>87501087
Gumball/10

>>87500518
What the fuck is even happening in that scene. Anime has that issue were it's just weird visual nonsense drawn for the sake of weird visual nonsense. It happens in western animation too but anime does stupid Shit like this all the time. It's over animated.

>>87498504
I really, really don't like this gif.

>>87501087
Hmmm, its okay.

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>>87501313
Is this better, faggot?

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>>87501339

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>>87501313
It's a transformation sequence, how can you not realize that. Either way while it's well animated I don't know why he chose to use that instead of something more palatable to people on /co/

>>87501404
what anime

>>87500434
You should watch Bob's Burgers. Both low FPS and crappy animation.

>>87501087
I would watch the anime.

>>87501433
yozakura quartet

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>>87501313
>doesn't know a magical girl transformation sequence when he sees it
Watch some Sailor Moon you trog

>>87501130
That's a fair point, honestly.

>>87501087
git gud m8

>>87501579
>being this much of a pleb
Watch Cutie Honey, faggot.

>>87501612
At what? Should I simplify it more?

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>>87501646
Does Re:Cutie Honey count?

I only said Sailor Moon because it's the go-to magical girl animu
>>87501674
No, you should learn to draw

>>87497654
Strength Training Anatomy is a wealth of angles and poses. It's not even intended as an art resource. It's just that good.

>>87501739
re:cutie is for plebs
shin cutie is for cyberpunkfags
the original cutie honey is best

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>>87498483
Yes. I mean, if you plan on trying to get into the industry, you'll need a good draftsman skill, but a lot of people get by on just charisma and pretty basic drawing abilities. If you plan on doing cartoon art just for yourself as a hobby, you can do some observational art, but you can really just skip right to learning exclusively cartooning if that's all you want to do and you just want to do it to make yourself happy. No one's gonna care that you can't draw a realistic elephant if all you want to do is draw sexy cartoon girls, for example.

But if you want a job and have zero connections? It's gonna be a few years of observational work to get to a point where people will notice you.

>>87496783

Draw models if you haven't done so

If you get good at realism it can be easy to switch between styles pretty easily

>>87501786
what if i just want to draw porn that's decent but not professional level?

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>>87501739
>No, you should learn to draw
I don't think you understand where we are, friend. It's supposed to look bad, or are you telling me that western cartoons are a pinnacle of art?

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>>87501087

Flat
Too long
No depth

Here's something I did for a quick sketch request this morning

>>87501786
Nigga, I just wanna draw fan art for fun.

>>87501087
You could easily land a cartoon in Canada.

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>>87501992
Western animation WAS the pinnacle of art though.

>>87501909
If you strictly want to just do cartoon porn, use actual porn images as pose references while using simple art like Bruce Timm as "what to follow" for anatomy. Like, his pelvises are just big round circles and his legs are basically two shapes total. You don't need to get into super Glen Keane territory for anatomy drawings if you don't want to. And in the end, people will like porn art no matter how it's drawn, so it's not like people are gonna shit on you for the quality of it.

>>87502071
Then you could start right now and doodle whatever. If you're having fun, then you're successful. Actual draftsmanship doesn't matter at that point.

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>>87501992
Oh, this is bait

Whatever, I hope you're having fun

>>87496783

Just draw heads and eyes that are perfect circles, bodies just are a 1mm lines and four fingers.

>>87502054
Too much depth. Not simplified enough.

>>87502138
Oh, you disagree? Let's hear your argument then, presuming you have one.

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>>87502585
Oh yeah let me pick apart your obvious hyperbolic statement just for you to throw out another one

Have fun mate I'm out

>>87499839
That already happaned in the 90s to the mid 2000s.

>>87496783
Only if you're drawing women

>>87499839

the day western animation is aimed to a broader audience than children, it will ascend.

You have " adult" shows but are most of the time comedy or capeshit and they are not so good.

>>87500518

you realize that 20 koreans slaves were used to draw and animate that shit? And 5 japanese slaves supervised them

>>87501087

ready for CN and Nick

send your work now, 100% hiring probability

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Do I get an award now?

>>87508343
This isn't western animation though

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>>87496783
know how to draw bodies then exagerate parts of the body that suits a character, if its a muscle man you draw massive pecks and a square face so on and so on, or go crazy and mix and match

i dont think im a good cartoonist yet, but see here, hes suppsed to be a wesile fox always had a scheme up his ass kinda guy, so he has the long like head and even a big grin with fangs to show he has a scheme going on

>>87508534
Better, your own show on cartoon network.

>>87508534
Call it Bean Beany and his Magical Beanventures.

>>87498760
why is /a/ attacking this thread, it's not like they want people in the west to try learning how to draw like the japs.

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>limited "animation"

When will weebs learn to appreciate animation instead of slideshows?

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>>87497442
>lol loomis? naah brah thats a meme on /ic/ haha thats why its bad
its not like any single person on this entire board has any right to deny what he says or what his guides are about, or be critical of them. at least not /co/. that wouldn't make any sense.

I absolutely love how even though this is a bait thread most guys here were trying to be helpful to the point where OP got noticably upset.
I love you /co/

>>87509919
Loomis is fine there's just books that are a bit better. I still like his books for a lot of the inspirational writing (things like relating the story of how his first art instructor told him to give up and go home).

>>87510120

Loomis is great as basis to master different art styles later as it teaches you how to break things down into basic shapes. People like OP start with other books mainly for figure drawing focusing mostly on anatomy and they think that there is a rule that a realistic physiology and proportions should always be there when you draw a human character.

I don't think its the books fault but people sure tend to miss the point with such books.

>>87500719
This
Fucking anime has some amazing animation going on in it. But about 80 fucking percent of it is motherfucking sameface anime fucks stands stock still as their mouths flap because they're all made from manga.

Plus, y'know, the reason anime is bad because most of the writing is awful.
>HI, I WANT YOUR DICK
>But I'm a gormless twat
>WE WANT YOUR DICK TOOOOOOO

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>>87498306
>learning from Anno
Both are hacks. You lose nothing.

>>87511492
>Plus, y'know, the reason anime is bad because most of the writing is awful.
I know you're posting like this because you're having a moment, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're actually 18.
Its not like cartoons aren't just shitty tropes flapped onto one another either. They're the same thing. Every single trope you've seen in movies and comics and originally, books. I'd say if you see a lot more anime, you'd see that the troping isn't as rampant is cartoons, on a universal scale.

Just learn from many different sources. If you only read Loomis and you can only draw cartoon potatoheads, you're doing something wrong.

>>87508534
Animation becomes a lot more difficult if the design is cluttered and overly complex. Try to simplify it a little more.

>>87496783
>Do I just draw proportions and anatomy as badly as I can?

you mean like the pic related?

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>>87511535
Anno is a god tier animator though.
pic-related

>>87500518
Please.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCMHmDnfD6I

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>>87511539
>I know you're posting like this because you're having a moment, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you're actually 18.

oh my, did he stuck a nerve?
is little anon angry about his sub-par chinese cartoons?

>if you see a lot more anime
let me describe 90% of animu:
>it's <setting> except everyone is little girls
>"fuck me in the ass onii-chan!"
>"i was just a regular highschool student with non-existent parents, UNTIL ONE DAY..."
>a "comedy" series
>every problem in this world is solved by challenging someone to a game of parcheesi. good thing im a parcheesi champion with a haircut that looks like an explosion in firework factory
>a series made by gainax and they still can't figure out how to make an ending that doesn't suck
>ISO-Standard mecha anime with a faggot MC #20835
>a series where nothing happens, at all (/a/ loves these)
>a remake of 90's animu that somewhat looks even worse
now go back to /a/ and keep fapping to pantyshots you degenerate little shit

>>87509882
That would be better if it had been animated on 2s instead of 1s

Fight me

>>87497442
What's wrong with Loomis?

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>>87513615
>>it's <setting> except everyone is little girls
>"fuck me in the ass onii-chan!"
Stopped reading right there.
Kill yourself.

>>87513891
If I can stop the bait wars for a moment, what's that from?

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>>87514014
daicon IV

>>87497702
yeah, proko is good.

>>87513853

There is nothing wrong with Loomis, but it shouldn't be the only drawing guide you get. Do Loomis and others and figure drawing and just straight up steal some ideas from your favorites and eventually, after many years of work and poverty, you will have something good to offer

Or be like those stains that "make a living" selling "original" fanart in the "artists isle"

>>87514387
so really , it all cones down to whether you have the talent.

>>87514422

nah, it comes down to: "do you have something to offer that people want at he time"

Think about every cartoon that got popular, the audience and the social context, and you'll realize that people who made it just happened to be offering what people needed (in today's case, nostalgia and stumped adulthood)

we are never aware of how many people are doing work at any given time. There's so many people offering small or big variations, that one is bound to be in the right place, right time, offering what the masses want, for certain amount of time. It's more the laws of averages than anything else

There are just SO MANY people trying to be the one. You wouldn't (want to) believe it

>>87514422
Talent is dumb.
People get good at things through learning and practice.
Put in the hours, learn your shit, practice the hell out of it, and you'll get good.

>>87514422
No, it comes down to "are you willing to do the work required to reach a certain level of skill."

>>87514996

All what talent means is that it's going to take some people less time to meet certain drawing criteria compared to the average. Everyone eventually flattens out and then it becomes about how interesting your stuff is