Name a more overrated comic If the art was house style nobody

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>>87423722

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This a close second place

>>87423722
The Killing Joke is the most overrated comic of all time

>>87423737
I understand what they were trying to say. But that doesn't mean the comic has aged well.

That's a Prophet

>>87423767
Is it really overrated among comic fans tho anon?

Its mostly normies that eat TKJ up and its a decent entry level comic

>>87423782
>But that doesn't mean the comic has aged well.

Saying some work aged is a shallow criticism though

>>87423722
But unfortunately for you it has Alex Ross' magic touch which makes the book incredible if only just to gawk at the art.

>>87423967
Alex ross is boring.

>>87423782
Name one thing that have ever existed that have aged well

>I was triggered by Waid so now I will shitpost about all his previous works

>>87424051
Fire

>>87424070
>Being this much of a newfag
People have been shitting on Kingdom Come on /co/ for years

>>87424094
>I have
FTFY

>>87423722
I agree. Both this and Earth X suck

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>>87423722
go fuck yourself anon

>>87423764
Absolutely not
Miller's use of newscasters and talking heads as extremely condensed expositon that keeps the reader engaged and entertained while keeping th page count low is innovative and not repeated in the genre (except by Miller himself)
In general the layouts and paneling of DKR are amazing and keep the book from being overrated

>>87424051
Brooke Shields

>>87423722
>If the art was house style nobody would even mention it
if granma had a dick, she'd be granpa

>>87423722
It wasn't that bad before the ending, then the ending happened.

>>87424021
you're boring

>>87424051
Your mom.

>>87424319
Not him but the book itself is not great in the form if text, subtext and metatext. The plot is very bare minimum and Waid is not a subtle writer so there wears off the novelty of text and subtext. It is only held in such a high regard because of its place as this great reconstruction piece but honestly there are better reconstruction pieces from that era that offer way more substance, are more thought provoking and well done. Moore's Supreme and Morrison's Flex Mentallo being the prime example. If only Alex Ross provided art for either of those 2 series, normal audience would be eating it up instead of KC.

>>87423722
Hitman, this is some edgy shit with demons, bratman and niggers.

Impulse was a shitty series

I hated Superman and Wonder Woman in Kingdom Come.

>>87423722
>>87423764
>>87423767
These anon's are so hip and contrarian. The entire fourth channel thanks you for your fresh and definitely not forced opinions.

What's that one comic that people on /co/ generally percieve as well written and drawn? Because it'a definitely that one.

>>87426095
desu killing joke was kinda tame and TDK did the scenario more effectively

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/co/ has their heads so far up their ass they won't know a good art even if they got hit by it

Just to sound contrarian, there's an anon who will say MoJ art is better than Michelangelo or someone

>>87423764
The political aspects of TDKReturns were certainly overrated, but sequences like Batman putting the suit on again, the Mutant fights, and the Joker's death were fantastic. The BvS part is alright, but sorely mishandles Superman's character, albeit I think that was the point.

>>87425524
Them's fighting words m8.

>>87426258
>/co/ has their heads so far up their ass they won't know a good art even if they got hit by it
of course they do, they get triggered by /ic/ posters.

>>87423722
>If the art was house style nobody would even mention it

So you're saying that all that matters in comics is the story?

Comics are a visual medium, and even besides that, Kingdom Come has some phenomenal characterisation.

In comic books, much like in film, plot is probably the least important aspect, I'd say.

>>87423722
I'll always love the black/red S on his costume.

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>>87423737

The reason why we keep having hero vs hero arcs/events in modern comics suddenly makes a lot more sense.

Aside from pure power level wank, that is.

>>87423722
if the art was house style it would actually be enjoyable

>>87424051
Jennifer Connelly
Carla Gugino
BTAS
BB

>>87426723

>Kingdom Come has some phenomenal characterisation.

The worst aspect of KC is easily the characters characterization. Are you fucking kidding me?

>>87426723
>Man kills a mass murderer who has shown no signs of ever being rehabilitated
>Court says "fuck it we should have done that years ago"
>Superman quits

Great fucking characterization there.

>>87423737
this picture always triggers me so hard

nothing they say is at all new to the Kingdom Come conversation. New heroes not being guided by the same philosophies as old heroes is like basic reading comprehension, it's not insightful at all.

I love the book because it's meta while also being a good story as a standalone, but reading too much into it is stupid. Its complexity lies in the outside knowledge of the industry that you need to appreciate it. If you understand that context, the book is stupidly straighforward.

>>87427493

Don't forget Wonder Woman being a disgraced champion of her people and instead of deciding to regain her self-worth by herself decided she needed Superman's assistance.

Or Batman turning Gotham into a police state with his Bat-Drones.

Or Billy Batson being manipulated by Lex Luthor.

>>87427187
>>87427493
>i don't understand meta storytelling

On the alternative side I bet you fellas think that Geoff "Mr. Donner's Assistant" Johns is really good at meta storytelling.

>>87424094
Then people have been wrong for years.

Watchmen, by virtue of not being the best capeshit story Moore ever wrote, much less the best work of his period.

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>>87423722

>Thinks writing is more important in a largely visual medium

There are these things called novels if you don't give a fuck about visual art in your fiction.

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>>87427999
>Characters don't follow established characterization
>Look at how great the characterization is, it's so meta.

Batman: Year One
Batman: Killing Joke
Flintstones

>>87428771
It's another universe set decades into the future, established characterization doesn't mean a fucking thing here.

>>87426049
To be fair, so did Waid. He's came a number of times to say "Don't fucking emulate this!!!" To SM/WW shippers.

>>87423767
it's the only decent cape shit.

Discussions about something being overrated or underrated will always be the most useless discussions to be had. Because it's not about the content, it's about perceptions of the content. It could be the most amazing comic book of all time but if you think people rate it slightly higher than it deserves, it's overrated.

>>87428853
What's so great about this characterization? At least if it held to what was established that would be a point in its favor but if you fuck with the characterization it's just a bunch of OCs in DC costumes

>>87426723
the fact that alex ross static unexpressive and non-heroic(the characters look like middle aged cosplayers) art is considered great and worth the price of the book by itself tells you everything you need to know about the poor state of the comic industry and fans

>>87428977
I'm sure what ever I put you're just gunna say NOT MUH DC so I won't even bother really trying.

A broken down Superman that decides he's had enough of the society he's tried to save for so long is an interesting story.

>>87428961

You can be the ripest and juiciest peach out there but some people just don't like peaches.

>>87429039
>I'm sure what ever I put you're just gunna say NOT MUH DC so I won't even bother really trying.
I'm not a DCfag, I just don't like Kingdom Come and think it's a lame and hypocritical take on it's characters that doesn't really say anything of substance.

It's hard to take a Superman seriously when he quits because someone killed the joker and people were okay with it

>>87428977
>What's so great about this characterization?
Well, you see, aside from Batman, Superman, Luthor and Wonder Woman the pastor and Spectre, nobody else even has lines. How AMAZING is that?

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the art is the most important part of the medium though (otherwise you'd just read a book) and the main thing that makes people drop or pick it up

>>87427999
>it's not bad because it was meant to be bad so it's good that it's bad
>you just don't get it

>>87429249
>the story is the most important part of the medium though (otherwise you'd just look at paintings)

Two can play at this game. I love good art but if the story the art is telling isn't worth my time I might flip through the pretty pictures but that's it.

>>87423764
it is overrated by people who overrate it for the wrong reasons. On the flip side, people who call it overrated use the same reasoning
>it's dark!
>it's mature!
it's the same with Watchmen. Two excellent examples of comic books as an artform, but people only see the subject material

>>87429249
and Ross isn't a good comic book artist

great painter, not good comic book artist

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>>87423722

>>87427997
>Or Batman turning Gotham into a police state with his Bat-Drones.
>implying that's out of character
Batfags are the worst

>>87428998
The characters are middle-aged, though. That's the point of the book.

>>87423764
The difference between KC and DKR is that DKR actually uses the medium to service the story. Saying no one would like DKR without the art style is like saying Citizen Kane would be boring as a book.

>>87426723
Comics are a sequential visual medium, not a visual medium my friend and Ross's art is far too static to be considered great. I unironically think David Finch and Rob Liefeld are better comics artists.

>>87430509
>I unironically think David Finch and Rob Liefeld are better comics artists.
Everyone's allowed to have wrong opinions, but still, wew lad

>>87430647

If you'd just said Finch I'd maybe be able to come to terms with what you're saying, but Liefeld too?

>>87423722
NIGGER THERE WAS NO HOUSE STYLE

>>87424051
"aging well" is a solipcist concept, the work never "ages" nor "changes" through time, its us that does

whats difference for a comic that is released today from the same comic 20 years from now? nothing besides formal context and the people that will appreciate them

to say the valor of art lies in time is to say art is worthless, because who cares? in some years trending will change and this work im consuming right now will just be empty in its useness

>>87429813

Dude, nobody in KC was who they were.

Superman wouldn't stop helping people because Burgers cheered the guy that avenged Superman's wife by killing the Joker.

Wonder Woman wouldn't try to regain her self-worth by needing a man to do shit for her and using her pussy as a incentive.

Batman wouldn't transform Gotham into a police state where even normal citizens are scared of him with a bunch of drones.

Billy Batson, even without the Captain Marvel persona, is smart enough to know not to trust the likes of Lex Luthor.

>>87431107
>Superman wouldn't stop helping people because Burgers cheered the guy that avenged Superman's wife by killing the Joker.
Or maybe he sees the public supporting the killing of the Joker as an even bigger insult to his wife's memory.

Why is /tv/ spilling into /co/ this month? Stay in your own lane

>>87433646
Doctor Strange

>>87429361
>Two can play at this game.

you cant though lmao, you just proved your own point dumb and wrong since no one stares at paintings for hours on end for entertainment like people do with comics and books

very funny when people try to use le reverse what you're saying meme and blow themselves out of the water

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>>87427187

>Greentext cherrypicking, followed by an ultimatum

Good job, champ

>>87433646
>this month
how was your year off the grid, anon?

>>87429336
Go learn what "meta" means, junior.

>>87423722
>Name a more overrated comic

Any Marvel crossover event.

>>87423764
Why did Frank Miller's art get worse in TDKSA?

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>>87434207

Some psycho's still after me, so shitty.

>>87434122
You're missing the point. No one reads comics just for the art. If they did they would be looking at paintings and art books. Therefor the story is important.

Really the fact that looking at straight art (which is something people do by the way, just because you're too pleb doesn't mean everyone is) is less popular than story based art shows that the art is less important than the story in the overall human conscious. You're assertion that pure art isn't entertainment shows how wrong you are that art matters over story

very funny when people try to use le you proved yourself wrong meme and blow themselves out of the water

>>87431107
Maybe the world changed for the worst when the world turned it's back on Superman and his ideals. Maybe that's the entire basis for the story my thickskulled friend.

>>87434254
>No one reads comics just for the art.
Maybe not, but saying "if the art wasn't great it wouldn't be as praised" is as retarded as saying a movie can't be praised for great cinematography.

>>87434775
OPs dumb but so is >>87429249. I never defended what OP said I only addressed >>87429249

>>87423722
fuck off

Kingdom Come is the closest we ever got to Twilight of the Gods

It's one of the best depictions of a jaded superman, it serves as a reply to TDKR regarding batman's motives, and most of all it shows us how important Captain Marvel is.

It has one of the most satisfying conclusions in comics, that i have not seen yet in most contemporary event comics

Although Waid did give Ross less credit than he deserved

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>>87424580
>Earth X sucks

Nice one, kid. Im sure you'll fit right in with all your cool internet friends now.

>>87435606
Do cool people even know what Earth-X is?

...do regular people?

>>87434343

Burgers, you mean, and Superman ins't the only super in town.

>>87435518

>It has one of the most satisfying conclusions in comics, that i have not seen yet in most contemporary event comics

The conclusion was awful.

>>87435762
meh, i liked it. It was nice to see the old brooding folk just chill around after all the epic political/moral/social fistfights

Also, supes/wondie with child ftw

>>87435981
shipperfags are a cancer that needs to die

especially SM/WW shipperfags

>>87436013
yfw shipping existed long before you were born and will still be here long after you're dead

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>>87436047

>>87436057
i always wanted to be a redhead qt3.14, but thanks for this anyway

>>87431107
I 100% believe the bat robot shit because he would be too old to do it himself

>>87423737
I really like what this dude says, but it's also super obvious. Like anyone who ever read the book kinda got that, even if they couldn't quite put it into words the way he did.

>>87436228
>Like anyone who ever read the book kinda got that, even if they couldn't quite put it into words the way he did.

But OP didn't seem to get it.

>>87435741
>other continents mattering
ahahahaha

>>87436342
maybe OP got it and thought metatextuality doesn't by itself make a good story

>>87436013
>especially SM/WW shipperfags
Eyo suck my dick.

>>87429479
>>87424755
Calling DKR overrated has always been a sign of newfaggotry.

>>87423722
>>87423737

i can't name a more overrated comic except for maybe marvel's first civil war, where captain america chose not to kill anyone after one of the good guys died and it fell just as flat as kingdom come. come to think of it the times i have been most unimpressed with comics was kingdom come and civil war.

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>>87434233
From my calculations it was either
>oh shit im turning into freddy krueger and need to finish this book by monday
or
>hot damn am i the coolest guy boy i dont even have to fucking try anymore

>>87434233
alcoholism fucks up your nervous system and your coordination

>>87423722
pretty much every Johns comic starting with his JSA run

if he wasn't some kind of "celebrity" and meme no one would talk about them