How do writers make Punisher interesting again? Seems like the

>>87333077
Make him an anti-hero again instead of just "HE'S CRAZY ISN'T HE CRAZY DON'T YOU SEE HOW CRAZY HE IS" all the fucking time.

>>87333077
I'm getting tired of seeing 'road trip' Punisher stories that involve governments, which is what the last 2-3 arcs seem to have been. I like Punisher at a street level, fucking up gangsters/hoodlums in the most violent and scary way possible.

Also, make him a fucking 'Nam vet again.

>>87333362
Dude, it doesn't make sense for him to be 70.

>>87333386
And it doesn't make sense for Magneto to be in his 90's, so he's not. But he's still a Holocaust survivor.

Comic book aging doesn't have to make as much sense as it does in real life.

>>87333077
Fuck you, Frankencastle was great.

>m-muh serious Punisher
Oh, piss off.

>>87333386
>>87333411

Frank was deaged with the Bloodstone at the end of Frankencastle

Magneto has been deaged at least twice.

>>87333386
>>87333386
>We will never get a white haired old Frank who looks like Bill from left 4 dead

>>87333446
Bingo.

>>87333411
>>87333446
Magical shit doesn't belong in Punisher.

>>87333578
Says who?

>>87333578
Fuck off he's a character in a shard universe
Its all in the execution

>>87333578
>Implying you need magic to deage someone in the Marvel universe

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>>87333471
Pic related is the closest. Which looks like current day clint eastwood.

>>87333436
>we should make punisher into a werewolf

no fuck you

>>87333630
Yeah, they could just give him a cloned body or something.

>>87333646
>no fuck you
Fuck YOU, you tasteless faggot. You wouldn't know a good comic if it slapped your fat, greasy, zit-ridden face.

>>87333648
yeah maybe current frank is a skrull and the old frank is cryogenically froze. these ideas are gold!

>>87333679
You want your Vietnam vet bullshit or not?

>>87333678
lots of self projection there, buddy boyo. different interpretations of a character is fine, but a complete out of character left turn is shit. you really think frank was better off as angel or frankenstein. it's that quality to you, jabroni.

>>87333678
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjS2hIJBt5U

>>87333724
I'm not saying he should have stayed as a Frankenstein's monster (which is what that kind of monster is called, not just "Frankenstein", you philistine), I'm saying it was a good detour for a little while, a welcome change of pace that kept the character from going stale. Of course, joyless faggots like you can't have anything but MUH SEREEOOZ PUNISHER!!! so you have to shit on it despite it's actual quality. Then again, I'm not surprised that some random simpleton who can't even use good punctuation would hate a comic that goes out of his comfort zone.

>>87333077
The Punisher to me is not a character who should get his own ongoing. To me, the guy should only get minis and be a supporting character in someone else's book.

It's the problem with all the edgy characters like Wolverine and Punisher. Eventually, you run out of stories. I mean for christ sake, nearly every Wolverine Story has been 'Muh Past' and most of the Frank stories have been 'I do what needs to be done'.

I am not saying that the stories themselves have been bad... but there is a limit to them.

See, Frank was never supposed to be seen as a hero. Hell, his creator basically said he found Frank to be a terrifying character. Hell, Frank is shown to be incomptent in 'finding' criminals and judging them. He fights Spiderman based on rumors and let's not even get into the problems with the black and white morality he has which every writer seems to think is 'right'.

But it's the same problem that Rorsarch and the Comedian had, because future writers saw Frank being a 'badass', they thought 'I should write about this guy' while completely missing the point of him. And before you talk about 'reimaginings', there is a difference between a 'reimagining' and stupidity. For example, Alan Moore reimagined Miracle Man, while at the same time being respectful to the lore that had been set up. His turning the previous adventures into Dreams was a way of tying his story and Mick Anglo's together while providing a comentary on the Golden Age of Comics.

But a lot of Punisher writers write Frank as being the guy who does things that the other 'heroes' are too pussy to do. Pic very much related to that. However, he works best when he is written and shown to be an example of the horrors of a vigilante that kills. Say what you will about me, but one thing I loved about season 2 of Daredevil is Matt basically outlined all of my problems with Castle and his 'justice'.

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>>87333940
Shit... forget Pic.

>>87333702
How is the prevailing element of the character's backstory for nearly 40 years 'bullshit'?

I'm not all that bothered if his war is changed, as long as it's done right. I don't know if Frank can be interesting again, but more thought needs to be put into the problems he solves. This current run with the super coke could've been interesting in spite of the generic plot device, but it has been poorly told, and the characters are very flat. The only good thing I can say is that it's a lot more palatable than Edmonson's. I didn't care much for Rucka's run either, but I found henchmen of supervillains turning to street crime interesting.

>>87334049
That's not an answer.

>>87333077
Make him black

;^)

>>87333839
if the execution is bad, change for the sake of change is retarded. they took an idea that could've been a 1 issue What if? comic and dragged it out. making punisher a literal horror monster that's so out of my comfort zone, friendo. I mean look at the symbolism, guy. His name is frank and he turns into frankenstein. novel peace prize when?

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>>87333077

Good Punisher stories are rarely about the Punisher, though.

If you look at Ennis' run, he introduces a new villian each eight-issue arc or so. Each of those villians shares about half the space in the issue with Frank as their stories develop and they commit more vile acts which show us just what a monster they are. It's born of necessity, because of course they're going to get Franked sooner or later, but what it adds up to is that Ennis created scores of interesting characters for Frank to bounce off. That's not an easy task.

Add this to the problem that Frank himself, while cool, is kind of a blockhead, and you can only read so much "muh family, muh guns" before it becomes dull. Plus recurring villains just seem corny - Frank's main gimmick is that he's not supposed to have any.

tl;dr He's a surprisingly difficult character to write well, which is why his books are hit and miss.

>>87333702
>>87334049

The problem is the Frank character is Marvel property. Continuity doesn't matter in capeshit until it does. "Nothing" really changes.

>>87334138
>if the execution is bad
It wasn't though.
>change for the sake of change is retarded
Wow, "retarded". Real eloquent right there, Oscar Wilde Jr.
>they took an idea that could've been a 1 issue What if? comic and dragged it out
It lasted 10 issues. Ten whole issues. That's less than a year. The Punisher has existed for over 40 years but one year of something a little different is "too much".
>making punisher a literal horror monster that's so out of my comfort zone, friendo.
Yeah, no shit.
>I mean look at the symbolism, guy. His name is frank and he turns into frankenstein. novel peace prize when?
Oh yeah, because your average Punisher story is just so deep and multilayered. "Oh no, bad people doing bad things! Frank punish them! Bad people now dead! But Frank's family is still dead too! So sad! The end!". Riveting.

>>87333978
why not just break out of the chains? or shoot Frank in the Leg?

>>87333077
can someone story time franken castle? that shit was rad

>>87334283
I can do it tomorrow.

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>>87333077
>Seems like the last person to do anything worthwhile with him was Ennis
No it was Remender. I'm glad he brought back the classic body suit, t-shit and trenchout Punisher sucks

>>87334280
1.not enough time
2.there's no bullets in the gun, he's just Franking with him

>>87334280
That whole moment wad Stupid, and was just Ennis writing Frank wank. Confederacy of Dunces was better in that it was a comedy.

>>87334280
It's a Garth Ennis Story. Common sense and the fact that people can be decent human beings is thrown out the window if it means that his favorite characters can be 'badass'.

>>87334250
>It wasn't though.
Real eloquent right there, Kurt Vonnegut.
(Kurt Vonnegut is a writer who wrote books)

Are you even a punisher fan? You like gwenpool comics don't you, squidward. Shitty comics can still be fun in a so-bad-it's-fun way.

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>>87334301
I like the little changes made to it on Welcome back Frank. It made the whole get up "Reasonable." It does however annoy when people refer to the classic costume as something from the bad old days.

>>87334369
>Real eloquent right there, Kurt Vonnegut.
>(Kurt Vonnegut is a writer who wrote books)
Oooh, you threw my own insult back at me! So witty!

>>87334369
>Are you even a punisher fan?
I am when he's well written.
>You like gwenpool comics don't you, squidward.
Nice strawman. No, I don't.
>Shitty comics can still be fun in a so-bad-it's-fun way.
Difference is, Frankencastle wasn't a shitty comic.

>>87334138
>that's so out of my comfort zone,
So what? It triggered you or something?

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Maybe Mark Millar should get a shot a writing him. His Ultimate Punisher didn't shy away from killing kids, indulging in violence, or accepting collateral damage. I didn't think Frank could get anymore amoral until I read this.

>>87334369
>Are you even a punisher fan?
Ah, a character fag.

>>87334431
Thanks, pal. I love you. I love you like my bitch. We can still hang out even though your taste in punisher comics sucks.

>>87334450
so triggered I made a tumblr blog post please reblog. please we need to create a safe space for frank castle.

>>87334555
>Thanks, pal. I love you. I love you like my bitch
This is hilarious. Thanks for the laugh.

>We can still hang out even though your taste in punisher comics sucks.
I sincerely doubt you have any social skills period, but fine.

>>87334369
>(Kurt Vonnegut is a writer who wrote books)
Get off 4chan, bendis

>>87333625
>>87333591
And yet whenever they try it the character's popularity goes down the toilet and sales implode.

>>87333077
Have him become time swapped with Punisher 2099.

>>87334653
Show proof then. Hard evidence.

I think part of the problem is that Punisher is a token minority. He's the designated milltary dude with guns. If you make him something else, you lose your token.

>>87334132
They already did that. Black punisher lives in England now.

>>87334280
Is a bullet in the leg really going to stop frank?

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The concern shouldn't be with The Punisher, but the plot. All notions of him developing as a character be damned. The people writing him need to go back to the type works that inspired him; crime series like Travis McGee, Parker,Shell Scott, Mike Hammer among others. Those characters were generally fixed, what drew you in was how they dealt with whatever evil came their way, how they reacted to it, and how it impacts those around them.

>>87333940
>>87333978
you are such a faggot its unbelievable

>>87333940
>Punisher
>"edgy"

that... has no basis in reality though

>>87334910
>The people writing him need to go back to the type works that inspired him
You mean the kind of works Gerry Conway ripped-off the Punisher from?

I think part of the problem with writing a good punisher story is a lot of authors are not good at making a simple character nuanced. If the story ends up being "Frank is right" and not "Frank isn't necessarily wrong" then your missing the point.

Wasn't the beginning of Rucka's run where Frank isn't even the main character? Like he's a force of nature and we just see people's reactions to him, he didn't even speak for at least three issues

>>87333978
>Giving a blind man a gun

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>>87335021
Yes,like some of the works listed in the post you partially quoted so that you could make your profound statement.

>>87334981
Why am I faggot? Because I don't like murdering people and I point out the fact that Frank shouldn't be considered heroic? How does that make me a faggot?

>>87335010
Are you kidding? The Punisher when written as a heroic figure is the text book definition of Edgy. Seriously, have you read some of the stories he has had, especially those written by Ennis?

>>87334678
The evidence is that Punisher's sales have tanked whenever they've tried supernatural angles. If you'd been reading comics more than a few years you'd know this.

>>87335162
>anything that isn't "le so quirky le random XD le upboat" is "edgy"

>>>/reddit/

>>87335911
How did you get that from what I said? I just said that some of Punisher's stories are exceptionally edgy, especially the ones which are written by Ennis.

>>87335889
Franken- castle was great. And there have been hints that frank's plot armor can be explained in universe supernaturally.
But that time Frank died was made an angel and resurrected? Yeah that was pretty bad.