Okay, so Brevoort said that that fan anger leads to better sales,

>>87238314
None of those people are fans.

>>87238344
But it shouldn't matter, should it? Brevoort said in one of those posts in that image that bad word of mouth makes people interested in seeing for themselves or watching the train wreck or being part of the conversation.

>>87238314
You can only piss in people's cereal for so long before they stop eating it.

File: Untitled.jpg (53KB, 638x412px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 638x412px

>>87238314
>Okay, so Brevoort said that that fan anger leads to better sales, but why is it that Nick Spencer's Captain America is selling about the level of Rick Remender's run even with a Civil War II tie-in?
Pic is a retailer explaining one reason why Marvel NOW is currently bombing at stores.

>>87238483
But what if they're into scat?

>>87238654
That's too niche a market to be sustainable at Marvel's budget.

File: 1475660206411.png (460KB, 565x488px) Image search: [Google]

460KB, 565x488px

>>87238380
If that's true than why does manga sell so well?

>>87238601
Holy shit. That tweet really lays it out.

File: 1477041773367.jpg (37KB, 400x324px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 400x324px

>>87238314
>fan anger leads to better sales

Tell that to DC!

>>87238314

While I'm generally not a fan of what Marvel is doing at the moment Hydra Cap is actually pretty good so far. My only issue will be if Cosmic Cube Girl saves the day instead of Cap

>>87238314
So Remember run was that bad? That was the Dimension X stuff, right?

>>87239527
>Hydra Cap is actually pretty good so far.

It's not bad. I just think with all the hype and belief that anger increases sales it's just weird that it didn't work this time around.

>>87239601
It's not horrible, the sales are okay. Problem is with the current series, in the sense that all the attention got them a high-selling number one but nothing else. Civil War II didn't even give them a boost.

>>87239671
Civil War II didn't even give itself a boost.

They made their fans angry. And guess what, they aren't selling comics.
I hope he gets fired for his stupid philosophy.

No one cares about Captain America, faggots. Get over it.

>previously there were anons unironically saying Cap could ever surpass Supes as a global icon

lol.

>>87238314
>if you want to avoid this spoiler then consider yourself warned
>after previously spoiling me on something
Fucking dicks.

>>87238314
>three quarters of the image is what people said on twitter
This is just lazy.

>>87239527
>>87239602
It says a lot more on principal of how Marvel has been treating Steve since they decided to push Sam as Cap.

First they make Steve an old fogey who makes harsh and unreasonable decisions. The white man literally becomes "THE MAN". Also Sam and Steve have some kind of beef for reasons. All this happens while Sam is painted as the one true hero in spite of the population ranting "not muh Cap" in a blatant attempt of Spencer to point a finger at critics of the book. Very much a parallel to what Aaron did with Whor.

Then when Steve is finally made young again, he literally becomes part of a hate group that once associated itself with Hitler. Evil white Cap, saintly black Cap.

And no, this isn't /pol/. I'm making observations based on the books and threads I've read.

nowadays people only buy comics to support them because pirating them is incredibly easy, so the idea that outrage sells comics makes no sense.

Remender and JrJr are a more marquee team desu. I don't even know who's drawing Cap w/ Steve

>>87240205
>there were anons unironically saying Cap could ever surpass Supes as a global icon
Only /tv/ memers think the MCU will give Marvel characters any lasting appeal.

>>87240310
Then there's Sam letting illegals into the country.
Regardless of feelings, that's breaking American law for non-Americans.

Would Cap have let Germans walk right across the border?
I don't fucking think so.

>>87238314
>Captain America
There you go. Sure, they may be big deals when it comes to movies, but in the world of comics, no one gives a shit about Captain America. No one gives a shit about Iron Man. No one gives a shit about Thor, Hulk, Hawkeye, etc.

Marvel's audience was always Spider-Man and The X-Men. And they've done a great job shitting on both.

It seems like people jumped off with Civil War which is bizarre.

>>87240367
It's poetic in a way. The first Civil War started the whole event mess that's been going on for a decade. And now Civil War 2 kind of closes the book so to speak on public opinion of events.

>>87240395
I just hope they learn their fucking lesson from all this.

>>87240314

This. I already feel bad I can't support the comics I like by buying floppies because I'm a Eurofag. I sure as hell am not going to buy a trade for a comic I hate with these import costs.

>>87240410
You know they will not.

>>87238314
It's one of the only three Marvel books in the Top 50 last month that wasn't Star Wars, Spider-man, or Deadpool. So compared to the rest of their line it's doing well. Maybe the rest of their books could use more controversy.

>>87240349
Nomad probably would.

>>87240640
Well, he's not muh Cap, so it doesn't matter.

>>87240659
but he's literally muh Cap.

>>87238314

I want to shit in that fat middle-aged SJWs fedora.

>>87240410
They won't... Inhumans Vs. X-Men is set to launch the same month as Trivial Bore Deux's long delayed conclusion...

>>87238314

>Dem Captain America drops

And people try telling me Rebirth sales are tanking

>>87240310

Yeah, but you do understand that both Hydra Cap and FemThor aren't going to last. It's how comics work. The issue with Steve Roger's weird status goes beyond pushing Sam-Cap; it goes back to killing him at the end of Civil War (the first one).

Civil War - in my opinion - was the WORST idea Marvel has had, and in my opinion they've never really recovered from it. While it may have sold well at the time it fucked up their continuity way too much (and now they're having another one).

In my opinion Marvel has to reboot Crisis on Infinite Earths (or New 52). Because shit like Civil War, One More Day, and all the bullshit with the X-Men has made their continuity really fucked.

>>87240362

You're forgetting the Fantastic Four.

>>87240221
The fourth column's neccesary because it's Spencer himself talking about sales, I think. But the rest is a bunch of tweets from people who probably didn't read the book.

>>87240845

Isn't everyone?

>>87240863
Okay, that's fair enough.
After reading through the first row of tweets, I didn't want to subject myself to what I assumed was just more nobodies saying stupid shit.

As someone that likes Remender

>Bru > power gap > Remender
> power gap > power gap > shit > Spencer

>>87240362
>>87240205
/tv/ posters with no knowledge of the 00's spotted.

Ah fuck it I work in a comic story so I might as well chime in here.

Fan anger only get you so many sales. The thing you need to make sure is that the fan is a repeat customer because while he may buy something to hate read than it often means he only buys just one issue to see the hub bub and than nothing else because guess what? The story is often terrible. Heck my store has a strong focus on trades because guess what we can point good stories to customers to keep them buying. Now there is a thing of taste but the reason you make fans is good stories! No one comes in ever asking for any Marvel events besides Civil War!

And since there were people in here that didn't know what sales were like back in the 00's, here's the sales on Civil War (the Millar/McNiven version from 10 years ago):

05/06 Civil War #1 of 7 - 360,172
06/06 Civil War #2 of 7 - 339,527 ( -5.7%)
07/06 Civil War #3 of 7 - 335,655 ( -1.1%)
09/06 Civil War #4 of 7 - 288,609 (-13.2%)
11/06 Civil War #5 of 7 - 281,323 ( -2.5%)
01/07 Civil War #6 of 7 - 259,264 ( -7.8%)
02/07 Civil War #7 of 7 - 265,935 ( +2.6%)

>>87240362
I mean, people cared about them in the 70s and 80s. They didn't explode like the X-Men did in the late 80s and 90s but still did respectably and one thing Bendis did do is make the Avengers characters a big deal again.

just, y'know.

monkey's paw.

>>87240695
>all these event delays
You'd think with the rate they pump them out they'd at least be able to keep the fucking things on schedule

>>87240907
I like Remender in general, but his Cap (and Uncanny Avengers for that matter) was a disappointment. He's better on lesser characters like Flash/Venom or Punisher.

>>87240997
>Uncanny Avengers
but muh volume 2!

Uncanny Avengers was pretty good from issue 5 to 22, but man SIXIS really threw a wrench in stuff.

>>87240963
And here was the sales on Captain America at the time of Civil War:

09/06 Captain America #21 - 49,050 ( +3.6%)
09/06 Captain America #22 - 86,875 (+77.1%) (CW tie-in)
10/06 Captain America #23 - 81,323 ( -6.4%) (CW)
11/06 Captain America #24 - 82,348 ( +1.3%) (CW)
03/07 Captain America #25 - 344,270 ( 318.1%) (Death of Cap)
05/07 Captain America #26 - 129,365 ( -62.4%)
06/07 Captain America #27 - 99,108 ( -23.4%)
07/07 Captain America #28 - 89,721 ( -9.5%)
08/07 Captain America #29 - 83,781 ( -6.6%)
09/07 Captain America #30 - 79,554 ( -5.0%)
10/07 Captain America #31 - 77,131 ( -3.0%)
11/07 Captain America #32 - 73,310 ( -5.0%)
12/07 Captain America #33 - 78,279 ( 6.8%)
01/08 Captain America #34 - 127,626 ( 63.0%) (Bucky becomes new Captain America)
02/08 Captain America #35 - 86,038 (-43.7%)
03/08 Captain America #36 - 81,378 ( -5.4%)
04/08 Captain America #37 - 80,635 ( -0.9%)
05/08 Captain America #38 - 79,350 ( -1.6%)
06/08 Captain America #39 - 79,387 ( +0.0%)
07/08 Captain America #40 - 79,317 ( -0.0%)
08/08 Captain America #41 - 85,035 ( +7.2%)
09/08 Captain America #42 - 75,574 (-11.1%)
10/08 Captain America #43 - 72,405 ( -4.2%)
11/08 Captain America #44 - 75,493 ( +4.3%)
12/08 Captain America #45 - 71,186 ( -5.7%)
01/09 Captain America #46 - 73,184 ( +2.8%)
02/09 Captain America #47 - 62,850 (-14.1%)
03/09 Captain America #48 - 62,108 ( -1.2%)

>>87240963

That's some nice retention. I wouldn't be surprised if CWII is under 100k by the end

>>87241032
04/09 Captain America #49 - 63,874 ( +2.8%)
05/09 Captain America #50 - 72,708 ( +13.8%)
06/09 Captain America #600 - 123,152 ( +69.4%)
07/09 Captain America #601 - 87,844 ( -28.7%)
07/09 Reborn #1 of 6 - 197,565 (+124.9%)
08/09 Reborn #2 of 6 - 125,366 ( -36.5%)
09/09 Reborn #3 of 6 - 108,331 ( -13.6%)
11/09 Reborn #4 of 6 - 96,571 ( -10.9%)
12/09 Reborn #5 of 6 - 91,790 ( -5.0%)
01/10 Reborn #6 of 6 - 84,844 ( -7.6%)
01/10 Captain America #602 - 63,948 ( -24.6%)

>>87241016
I felt like Apocalypse Twins stuff kept on dragging and dragging.
Maybe it'd get better if I read it in one go, but I don't really have a high opinion on it right now.

>>87241041
I was pretty surprised at that when I first saw it. I mean I had problems with that series but I had to acknowledge it was an actual success. Even the trade still sells well to the casual crowd at bookstores long before Captain America: Civil War was made.

>>87241062
>Maybe it'd get better if I read it in one go
It's much better in trades.

I can even say the same for Bendis's UXM, but it's not /good/, just not terribad.

File: 1454528880263.gif (2MB, 200x192px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 200x192px

>>87240362
>X-men more popular than hulk

>>87241230
He's probably thinking about the 90s where they literally split the X-Men and Spider-Man from all The Avengers because The Avengers were selling terribly so Onslaught was used to split them. Then Heroes Reborn happened when we wish it didn't happen and shit just got even dumber.

>>87241230
Comicswise the X-Men is more popular than the Hulk since maybe the 90's. Hulk is just more well-known than most X-Men though.

>>87240982
IvX will doubleship in January; Javier Garron takes over for #3 because of Yu doing his Monsters Unleashed issue next.

>>87239133
Cuz it's bad.

>>87241230
>X Men
>carry an entire line of titles and have created multiple spin off characters who are now some of Marvel's most popular characters who have had hundreds of issues of solo titles like Wolverine and Deadpool
>Even to casuals there have been not only 6 X Men movies (with more on the way) but 3 movies about Wolverine and one about Deadpool most of which perform spectacularly at the box office (we are talking popularity)
>Hulk can't even have a book for himself and one for a legacy, the name can only carry one Hulk at a time
>2 movies, that perform adequately (I believe the first was a flop)

>>87241318
If we're talking sales you might have a point. If we're talking about discussion and appreciation that's laughable.

>>87241425
Wolverine and deadpool don't count as x-men unless they're part of the main cast on an x-men book, hulk and hulk related characters could definitely carry multiple books by themselves if marvel wasn't hilariously incompetent.

>>87241457
You'regenuinely delusional my man. At best the argument for Hulk being more popular than the X Men is people being able to tell you who Hulk is over being able to tell you who a singular member of the X-Men is on the street to random passersby. X-Men is in itself a brand. It successfully created several generations of new characters and kept on selling. Characters who spun out of X-Men are more popular than Hulk
>inb4 some faggot calls Wolverine a Hulk character because MUH FIRST APPEARANCE

>>87241530
Wolverine is a fucking X Man. He doesn't stop being a direct spin off of that title because Wolverine is on the cover.
He got his popularity through the X Men title, is a mutant, his supporting characters are often X-Men and he fights X-Men villains often
Deadpool you have more of an argument with but even then his whole back story is steeped in the X Men and often relevant to the plots of his comics, and one of his more popular series co started with Cable who is, guess what, an X-Man.


You really think a Doc Samson or Rick Jones book could sell when New Avengers is at 25k and Hulk itself is at 27? Wow youre an unbelievable optimist.

You are genuinely retarded if you think that Hulk is more popular than X Men beyond even the most basic "easily identified" element of the character. Really almost no solo cape character besides Batman and Spider-Man can be more popular than a cape team, and it's certainly not Hulk, who isn't even in the top 3 most popular original Avengers.

>>87241697
>Cable
>X-Man
lol please be bait.

X-Man was an X-Man, not Cable.

>>87241723
Cable wears X-Men gear and is from X-Men comics, how is he not an X-Man? (The singular for memeber of the X-Men)

>>87241750
>>87241723
At the very least he is a character intrinsically tied to the X Franchise. An X-Character

>>87241750
He works super close with them from time to time, but his whole thing is that they get in his way.
They aren't dynamic enough for him.

He's an X-Character for sure, I mean he's Cyke's kid.

>>87241697
>Hulk, who isn't even in the top 3 most popular original Avengers.
>I don't know what popular means

>>87241697

I'd say Hulk is actually more well known within the general population.

Hulking out is a term used by a shit ton of people. Snikt isn't. And most people know what Hulking out means thanks to - at least - reruns of the OG TV series.

>>87240924
>it's an "i don't agree with this guy so he must be from /tv/ episode."

>>87241807
People dont thwip anywhere but they know who Spider-Man is.

>>87241856
You're easily hurt by the truth.

>>87241859

I'm not arguing between the Hulk and Spider-Man. I'm arguing between the Hulk and the X-Men.

Also, I'm not arguing about whom is more popular amongst the target audience, I'm arguing about popularity among the general populace.

Hulking out has become a part of the english lexicon. It shows a definite level of popularity.

>>87238314
fan anger leads to fan hate
fan hate leads to fan suffering

>>87240673
He's not a US government employee, with law enforcement powers. It's very different when an average joe decides to ignore the law with nothing more than his feelings than when a LEO does it.

>>87240831
>Yeah, but you do understand that both Hydra Cap and FemThor aren't going to last. It's how comics work.

Well that's really more to the point. What's the point of getting invested in any of this shit when we all know it's going to get undone.

It either renders the story moot outright or just flat out kills people's interest in the books. Even though we know it won't last doesn't mean we want to support it. We don't want to hang around waiting for the books to appeal to us again.

>>87242168
Okay so let's go back to the double digit movie franchise spanning multiple decades which you conveniently ignored before.

>>87242284

If you're reading comics because you're seeking the beginning, middle, and end of a character you won't get it. You'll get a story with that character as the protagonist, but that story won't be the end of the character (I'm talking about the mainstream characters of the big two in this case obviously).

It's like trying to find the beginning, middle, and end of someone like Hercules; it doesn't really exist: there's too much contrary information there because characters like that are a reflection of the culture rather than the author.

If your problem with comics is that shit gets undone you're missing the point.

>>87242324

I'm not ignoring it. You are however ignoring the Hulk TV show.

>>87242546
The old Hulk TV show was some great shit. Shame we'll never get a modern version that isn't Marvel incestuous as fuck.

>>87238314
I think the idea is that people get angry because they care. Of course, if you anger them often enough, the will stop caring, and move on.

>>87241807
and here i was, thinking it was because of Hulk Hogan, or that the word "hulk" meant something before marlel comics.

>>87244163

Obviously the word "hulk" means more than referring to "The Hulk"; however "Hulking out" as a phrase is entirely because of Hulk as a character.

>>87243197

Fuck the Mouse. Edward Norton wanted to do that in film and they wouldn't let him!