Is this why Marvel is failing? http://io9.gizmodo.com/marve

>>87208900
How many LGBT character in DC currently have an ongoing ?
3?

Harley, Batwoman kinda and Midnighter

>Erasure of Hercules bisexuality
Was he ever shown to be bi tho?

FUCK THE OP

ARCHIVE LINK: http://archive.is/szX8b

>>87209015
Hellblazer and the new deadman comic.

>>87208900
Yeah they're sitting on the fence. They're not doing enough to really appeal to lgbt, but at the same time older fans feel alienated by their attempts to bring in a new audience. So no one is really happy

Also you have people like Nick Spencer basically spitting on fans online.

>>87209015
Middy is a mini. You forgot Hellblazer and WW.

>>87209023
Yea in Pak's run. He banged Northstar

>>87209023
He's Greek.

>>87209015
In Renee Montoya still a thing?

File: herc howlette .jpg (98KB, 500x384px) Image search: [Google]

98KB, 500x384px

>>87209023
In X-Treme X-Men, he was fucking Wolverine, but that was an alternate universe.
In 616 all we have is a joke where Northstar left made an excuse to leave when a group of Hercules' ex lovers asked if anyone else who he had fucked was in the area.

>Marvel didn’t see the lack of LGBT characters as a problem to address in its first wave of Marvel Now!

Why should Marvel give ongoings to LBGT characters anyway if they know those characters arent A or even B lister and cant keep a book going.

>>87209050
>>87209068
Oh right thanks.

>>87209071
I think she died and came back to life.

>>87209023
Heavily alluded to, mostly for levity like all his relationships.

Seriously the only LBGT characters in marvel that can keep a book above 20k are Teddy and Wiccan.

Gays need to be exterminated.

>>87209147
Young Avengers as a group can't stay above 20k I doubt they would as a duo

I'm a black man and even I have to ask this:

Why is a company marketing to demographics who don't traditionally use their product to the extent that outreach alienates the existing base with less than a 10% chance to bring on a 4th of the existing user base?

This is poor ivory tower decision making to the extreme.

>>87209100
And that story was cringing af

>>87208900
wow so it turns out that pandering to people who do nothing but complain is a BAD idea

who would've guessed?

File: 1441068545654.jpg (45KB, 404x480px) Image search: [Google]

45KB, 404x480px

>>87209196
>I'm a black man

I have loved these last few months since Rebirth has come out it is like the curtain has been pulled back on Marvel
They no longer have this aura of perfection around them
Articles keep coming out blasting them for various things

>>87209196
I will guess they dont lose a lot by trying, I once see a report for how much money does marvel pays for story, i think it was $600 dollars only for writers, lets say the waste $1000-1200 paying the artist, inkers, colorist and editors (lol), they can gain that money back easily.

Yes. The problem with current Marvel is clearly that they're not pandering enough to people that don't buy comics.

>>87209196
Because of how low their opinion of those old readers is. They believe, and rightly so for some, that readers will continue to buy the comics no matter what.

>>87209196
>implying Superheros ain't gay
As a white man I have to ask, what the fuck you on about fag?

>>87208900
Do any of these minority superheroes even have an arch nemesis to face?

>>87209332
the cis man

File: Herc_8_TheGroup_017.jpg (615KB, 1088x1650px) Image search: [Google]

615KB, 1088x1650px

>>87209023
>Was he ever shown to be bi tho?

He hails from ancient Greece. They fuck anything that moves; be it man, woman, animal, or half animal.

I don't remember if they ever specifically said if he fucked any men, other than some implications (everyone thought Amadeus was his eromenos, and Northstar buggered off when they called out Hercs lovers).

Plus he is canonically supposed to be the actual historical Hercules, who is said to have countless male lovers.

File: DC Rebirth.jpg (373KB, 1134x995px) Image search: [Google]

373KB, 1134x995px

>>87209023
Technically no but there's heavy implication and Pak confirms he was writing him as bi. Also mythological Herc is bisexual by modern standards however the books make a point to say the Myths aren't necessarily true.

That said I think Herc's "erasure" was more Alonso's ignorance than an active decision. Most Herc's appearances don't even pay lip service to the fact he plays for both teams, so Abnett could've just written him that way without Alonso opening his stupid mouth and nobody would've seen the difference.
>>87209196
1. This is popular now a days with everyone, comics, vidya, tv, etc. It doesn't hurt to appear like you're socially conscious or whatever.
2. Comics are desperate to get new readers in the first place.
3. Their contempt for their established fanbase is nothing new. They're hard to actually alienate. For all their groaning most of them just keep on consuming. So there's no harm in going for a larger base if their established base is still going to be there in the end.

>>87209212
The Northstar one or the X-Treme one? Cause the X-Treme one was actually pretty good and goddammit I love me some burly hairy gay sex.

>>87209276
>The problem with current Marvel is clearly that they're not pandering enough to people that don't buy comics.

No, the problem is that they are pandering to people who wouldn't buy comics anyway. So they are pissing off their existing user base while failing to get a new one.

It also doesn't help that they reboot everything every year.

If it weren't for the movies, they'd be in deep shit.

>>87209151
Its LGBTQ now

>>87209429
It's been that for a while.

>>87209415
X-treme one
are you into bara?

>>87209461
Kind of.

Also what didn't you like about it? I thought it was a pretty fleshed out backstory instead of the usual "Well in this universe I just like dick" route.

>>87209493
Not muh Wolvie
Of all characters, why Logan?

>>87209429
I hate that term. It makes it so that you have hetero people, and then you have everybody else, which only divides people even more. Same shit with PoC.

>>87209258
Pride comes before the fall, always.

>>87209514
Well obviously it wasn't your Wolvie, it was General Howlett of the Queens White North, Viceroy of her Majesties expedition to Shangri-la

>>87209529
don't worry they're fixing it

they're trying to get rid of the G because of male privilege

File: superhero_girl.jpg (183KB, 889x705px) Image search: [Google]

183KB, 889x705px

>>87209196
>I'm a black man
Does this concern trolling *ever* work? (other than for collecting (you)'s I mean).

I think pandering to people who aren't even remotely interested in comics would buy them in the first place.

Instead of "here x character is turbo LBGT now", they should build why character is LBGT.

>>87209429
>>87209456
It can also be LGBTQA for asexual or ally I'm looking forward to how unwieldy that acronym can get in the future.

>>87209617
don't forget I for Intersex

>>87209589
Hilarious if true

I remember when the LGBTA on my college campus decided to remove the A because the president didn't think straight allies should be included

Marvel is failing because the writers are intentionally writing crap. They know damn well that if they write something worthwhile, they'll be lucky to even get credit for it in the future. Instead, they just write dumb gimmick books that sell well enough to keep their jobs without wasting their good ideas.

File: eyyyy.jpg (156KB, 610x802px) Image search: [Google]

156KB, 610x802px

>>87209590
I did it for OP's thread to grow. I'm a good samaratan. I literally don't see a problem with adding more diversity in comics or any medium of entertainment. No one is hurt and WASPs learn to empathize with perspectives that are foreign from their own.

So, there's that, too.

>>87209429
What's the "Q" stand for?

>>87209654
I thought A was for asexuals

>>87209196
Its essentially the same reason clickbait is so prominent. Intentionally bad writing is easier than good writing and brand loyalty + marketing goes a long way to prop up the former while not really affecting the later.

Honestly, this is the way comics have always been. Good writing has always been the exception with only two or three stories per year being worth reading. The only difference is that now its straight characters coming out of the closet or minority rebranding instead of Superman about to murder someone in his supporting cast on the cover.

>>87209712
Queer or questioning

File: 1471490211320.png (310KB, 500x509px) Image search: [Google]

310KB, 500x509px

>>87208900
>Marvel comics sell even worse than before when they caved in to SJW demands
>apparently it's all because it's not gay enough

My sides

>>87209712
when it first showed up I believe it was "Questioning" but now I think it's "Queer"

>>87209258
And then you have asshats like Spencer who boast about Marvel superiority despite all the shit they've stepped in.

>>87209196
Wanna know how I know your post is bullshit?

Black people fucking love Marvel comics. Black men are BY FAR the second largest consumer of Marvel and it's a massive touchstone in black culture.

>>87209654

he's right that's dumb as hell

>>87209692
There'sno problem when you write a character like Midnighter or Batwing or going back for Marvel Falcon or Black Panther but when you do these hack jobs Marvel is doing, the diverse audience doesn't give a shit and the base fan group gets upset that talent and narrative focus is shifted to hack job characters.

>>87209756
>>87209768
Can't be queer because that's already covered by "L" and "G".

>>87209775
That boy is in denial
Because he will be remembered as the man who wrote Captain America at its lowest point

>>87209766
You also have Nick Spencer saying the rising sales of DC's Rebirth is because of how conservative comic fandom is and clearly they all hate minorities

>>87209778
Thats fucking retarded because Marvel shits on black folks the most.
Those hip hop covers are a fucking cash in meme and they treat their black writers as tokens.

File: bullshit.jpg (60KB, 720x616px) Image search: [Google]

60KB, 720x616px

>>87209590
Is this a parody of superhero comics being written for teen girls? Pic related.

>>87209196
Because it's ~important~

Real sales and fan reactions are the enemy, after all.

>>87209807
no actually it turns out you can be queer and not be gay or a lesbian

it pretty much just means "I'm a special little snowflake"

>>87209807
>Genderqueer may also refer to people who identify as both transgendered AND queer, i.e. individuals who challenge both gender and sexuality regimes and see gender identity and sexual orientation as overlapping and interconnected. Heterosexual: A person who is only attracted to members of the opposite sex.

Monday and I need a drink.

>>87208900
Could Marvel be doing better with their LGBT representation and characterization?
Yes, yes they could.
Is that the reason Modern Marvel is tanking?
No, no it is not.
Is Bendis the reason Modern Marvel is tanking?
Yes, yes he is.

>>87209756
>>87209768
What the hell does Queer even mean that isn't already covered by "gay" or trans"

>>87209841
>Thats fucking retarded because Marvel shits on black folks the most.

That's completely true, but that doesn't change what I just said.

>>87209807
Queer is basically the coverall term for everything not included in LGBT

>>87209840
I honestly still can't believe how much in denial these people can be

>>87209884
Queer covers stuff like being "were-gay" when you're only gay under the light of the full moon.

>>87209529
>gf friend is chill gay bro
>not stereotypical gay at all, didnt even know
>chill gay bro is president of campus lgbtqaidgaf, again didnt know that either
>tells us that he hates running it due to all the different cliques hating each other
>gays and lezzies hate the bis cuz its their "sluts"
>everyone hates the asexuals because their "just fakin it"
>trannies are the most arrogant becuase they think their the most oppressed/specialestest
>non faggity gays are chill, its the stereotypical ones that cause drama
>ask gay chill bro why a group dedicated to end prejudice is being prejudice to each other
>he says the problem ones all have low self esteem

>>87209829
>Captain America at its lowest point
Still Heroes Reborn

>>87209807
you made the mistake of assuming that logic has anything to do with it. some people """identify""" as queer, that's all they need to throw it up there

once furries get mainstream expect to see an F get tacked on there

>>87209888
I know it doesnt. Its retarded that some of these black folks prasing marvel dont see the tokenism.
Like Black folks love BP/Storm even though Storm is treated like a trophy for BP to win and he dumped her so wrong.

>>87208900
oh God I just realized this'll probably get worse now that DC has the riddler/penguin thing on Gotham

>>87209897
then why do i still see LGBTQ+

>>87210039
>once furries get mainstream expect to see an F get tacked on there


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tp76cHN2FDU

>>87209692
>I literally don't see a problem with adding more diversity in comics or any medium of entertainment.
The problem arises when you change an established character's race or gender arbitrarily. Then explain you did the change simply for the sake of diversity, and have the nerve to say "race doesn't matter". If it doesn't matter, why did you change it?

It's hypocrisy, and surface-level vanity. Creating "diverse" characters simply for the sake of diversity is just as bad.

>>87209914
Buster Wilde?

>>87209883
Bendis?

>>87210046
>I know it doesnt. Its retarded that some of these black folks prasing marvel dont see the tokenism.
We see it.
But Mahvel tho.

>>87210070

if it doesn't matter why not?

also because there are a million white heroes and like 10 (randomly chosen group)Asian ones and half of them are kung fu

>>87209752
>two or three stories per year being worth reading.
Not in the 80s. Hell in 86-87 alone we have Watchmen, DKR, Year One, JLI, Swamp Thing, Levitz Legion, O'Neil Question and that's just DC

>>87209752
Why do you think comics are two companies and not a medium?

>>87209692
>and WASPs learn to empathize with perspectives that are foreign from their own.
No they don't.
They learn to empathize with their own perspectives, just with a new coat of paint. This is fake diversity. Bendis is still white. Spencer is still white. Hell, the people making these articles and pretending to be journalists are still upper class WASPS. And none of these champions of social justice are going to step down to actually let a minority take their place any time soon.

This is like that Huffington Post staff photo thing.

>>87209931
>he says the problem ones all have low self esteem
In the end, this is the driving force behind new-wave feminism and social politics. Low self-esteem and first-world living conditions.

>>87210211
>remember kids you can only write your own kind, this hasn't been a problem for minority creators in the industry for decades! we're helping by reinforcing this!

My biggest pet peeve is that they make one stupid decision after another.

See

> Have a bisexual in Herc, instead of pushing that angle, make him straight due editorial not exisiting
> Make Iceman GAY, instead of bi
> Make ICEMAN gay, instead of some character that would make more sense as queer -- for example Namor, who already fucks anything vaguely female-shaped.
> No one can decide whether Deadpool is pansexual for real or if he does it to harass other people
> Northstar continues to do nothing
> Wiccan and Hulkling continue to be boring

and so on.

>>87210137
>if it doesn't matter why not?
Read my post more carefully.

>>87210291
> Northstar continues to do nothing
> Wiccan and Hulkling continue to be boring

Sadly using your existing gay characters doesn't give you headlines, you need new ones or huge retcons to make that splash. Marvel really only cares about that.

>>87210054
Intersex
Pure snowflake identities like demi shit

>>87210274
There's some merit to writing what you know.
Especially when Bendis thinks it's a good idea to name the black girl Riri or have Miles Morales' dad be named after the president of the confederacy.

>>87210296

if race doesn't matter it shouldn't matter if it's changed or not.

>>87210291
>who already fucks anything vaguely female-shaped.
Gillen set up that he'll fuck royalty regardless of physical form

>>87210274
>remember kids you can only write your own kind
A good writer can find ways to write outside his realm of experience.

But the best advice for writing is well known. The advice is "write what you know". Bendis can't write outside his realm of experience. That's why he wrote Miles just like Peter, and why he wrote Miles' grandma as stereotypically Puerto Rican, and got the Spanish grammar wrong.

>>87210373
Did you read my post more carefully?

>>87209196
Marketing heads controlling everything else. Having gay characters, non-whites, etc. and making a big deal of it nets positive PR. They likely are under the belief that the hardcore fans will bitch and moan but will buy comics anyway because they always have so they can risk pissing them off for good press and a resultant sales bump.

It is, of course, a very shortsighted vision focused only on the immediate and not the long term. In the immediate, having a woman as Thor or shoving Miss America everywhere or having books like Hellcat is great since yay look at this strong woman, look at this badass gay latina, look at this book about a woman created by women! Of course, almost all of the stuff they're putting out is shallow, existing in nothing beyond its gimmick and when people realize that whoever might buy the books leave pretty quickly. Look at Ms. Marvel and the way its sales have tanked since the relaunch despite the attempts to integrate her more and more into the center of things in the MU. The shine on the concept wore off, it got mired in events and people got bored and are now leaving.

It's honestly a similar problem to the '90s. Some of the specifics are different: no gimmick covers and the soft, passive, sitcom comics are the opposite of the "extreme" stuff that people think of from that decade and the annual relaunches of the 2010s. But many of the problems are the same: new characters introduced and trumpeted that nobody likes or cares about, a reliance on variant covers to inflate sales, crossover after crossover after event. And at the top, the likely culprit is a marketing department that likely has a large amount of "suggestions" that work only short term as they're incapable of seeing the forest for the trees.

Does Peter Milligan own X Statix? I'd think not seeing how much Doop got used in the past 10 years.
Why not bring that extremely diverse group back?

>>87210414

>If it doesn't matter, why did you change it?

bc there are a million white heroes and like 10 of other races. Like marvel has so few black heroes they all fit on one team

>>87210481
So you're just incapable of reading then.

Got it.

>>87209931
Yup, that all sounds about right

>>87210481
If there were two superheroes and one of them was black, would you consider that proper representation?

>>87210441
I think Mike Allred may own Mr. Sensitive/Orphan.

>>87210515
Fuck me... I meant ten.

>>87209071
>In Renee Montoya still a thing?
She wasn't even in New52 until DCyou where she was in Detective Comics back being a detective. She barely got to do anything before Rebirth, and now she's gone again with zero send off since Detective is focusing on the new Bat team now.

>>87210515

i was arguing for more diversity not more representation which is a fine line mainly to avoid "Well X% of the population is Y so X% of the team should be Y" bullshit

>>87210501

oh well! no skin off my back not understanding some bizarre white supremacy bullshit

>>87209023
He's as bi as he is Greek

>>87209429
>>87209617
Honestly the more letters they add to it the less seriously I take it.

>>87210375

Yeah, that's the kind of stuff I'm talking about. He's already willing to fuck... whatever that queen was, so him liking dick as well wouldn't change anything about his character.

File: Alysia_Yeoh1.jpg (75KB, 421x454px) Image search: [Google]

75KB, 421x454px

>>87209015
I think DC beat Marvel to the punch with a transgender character too. Babs' roommate was trans, married a girl too.

>>87210634
yeah it don't matter what's between the legs as long as it's got a crown on the head

File: 1271621905843.jpg (37KB, 237x236px) Image search: [Google]

37KB, 237x236px

When the fuck did /co/ turn into tumblr?

>>87210376
>A good writer can find ways to write outside his realm of experience.
A good writer isn't gonna be working for Marvel.
Okay, maybe King.

>>87208900
Yes, because that's what Marvel doesn't have too much of: diversity!

>>87210676
Steven Universe.was the final nail in the coffin.

File: cc50643cbd9c9fcebd61ba52d58a3588.jpg (63KB, 453x510px) Image search: [Google]

63KB, 453x510px

>>87210676
Ages ago.

>>87210653
Actually the blue snowman beat you by a good half century or was ma henkel first.
I know there was a guy who crossdressed as a female detective or something...

>>87210515
Is everyone else white? If not then no it's just tokenism.

>>87210676
I don't know when did people start calling it /co/mblr?

File: 1413482898291.jpg (1MB, 1184x1103px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1184x1103px

>>87210676

>>87210725
Blue Snowman isn't a tranny. She's just a reverse trap so people take her seriously, like the chick from Cybersix.

>>87210715
>people were defending Simone's shit run the other day

>>87210375
>regisexual

File: bg_45_23.jpg (100KB, 670x1029px) Image search: [Google]

100KB, 670x1029px

>>87210769
At least it had good art. I like Alysia though.

>>87210759
You cannot expect anyone to read all that.

>>87210801
What the fuck is that

>>87209766
>>87209840

but can marvel even pander to the sjw crowd harder than what they're doing now?

>>87210597
The guy said that if you're only changing it because why not without properly trying to make them an interesting character then it's incredibly shallow and cosmetic and done purely for attention. Which is taking advantage of a supposed minority group. Honestly the best thing you can do for diversity is showing a bunch of different kinds of people be people without their surface level characteristics be what defines their personality. Show them as people, not pedastals for these "diversities."

The day we can stop celebrating diversity is the day we'll finally have equality.

/spoonfeed

>>87210804
Why not, you don't have anything better to do.

File: image.jpg (995KB, 1528x4440px) Image search: [Google]

995KB, 1528x4440px

>>87208900
>>87209766
>Am I out of touch?
>No, it's the Readers who are wrong

>>87210829
What happened to Batgirl after Simone left.

>>87210801
I like how this is the most stereotypical white tumblr girl fantasy

>get ethnically diverse best friend who is a tranny
>get to play dress up with him up like a doll
>get applauded for it because you're helping someone who has no privelidge,
>get to hitch your wagon to their struggle and get offended for them

>>87210863
yes, they could actually pander to them instead of pretending to for publicity

>>87210766
Dressing up as the opposite sex = transexual. Yeah we can go full they have delusions about being the opposite sex, but more then a few crossdressors are just people with a fetish or who like to use any stupid reason to do it.

And the chick from cybersix had no excuse for crossdressing at all.
It's there because the creator got off on it.

>>87210668

that would even be the perfect phrase to bring it up.

> character A and B talk about Namor
> "Wait, he likes men?"
> "Well, you know... as long as it's got a crown on the head..."

>>87209884
>>87209768
Questioning- "I'm not sure if I am into gay stuff, but I might be"
Queer- "sometimes I like to crossdress and if I see a dude who is hot enough I might offer to suck their dick but otherwise am straight"

>>87210948

>fem thor
>black spiderman
>pakistani ms. marvel
>asian hulk
>black fem iron man

Seems like they passed the pretending stage.

>>87209778
I didn't know that black people were all homosexuals

>>87211016
>sometimes I like to crossdress and if I see a dude who is hot enough I might offer to suck their dick but otherwise am straight
That's just a bisexual who crossdreses

>>87210956
>Dressing up as the opposite sex = transexual.

No it isn't. Trannies are the ones with brain problems. A woman wearing pants isn't a trannie any more than a person wearing a cat costume is a furrie or a person wearing a vampire costume is an otherkin.

>>87211016
Queer is the same as gay.

>>87210945
>get to play dress up with him up like a doll
I don't see white girls really having the drive for bringing ftms to some guy's clothes shop.

>>87209429
>Its LGBTQ now

>Wesleyan University used the initialism LGBTTQQFAGPBDSM for "lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, transsexual, queer, questioning, flexual,[clarification needed] asexual, gender-fuck, polyamorous, bondage/discipline, dominance/submission, and sadism/masochism"

>>87210872
How about the day you guys stop whining about diversity being the day we finally have equality.

>>87211042
no one knows "no homo" and the "dl hughley" exist for a reason

>>87210900
Stick to light hearted fun books Spencer (Ant-Man, Superior Foes). You're a raging retard when you try to handle serious topics.

File: 1440523207784.jpg (159KB, 1000x563px) Image search: [Google]

159KB, 1000x563px

>>87210274
Wasnt the reason Marvel canceled the Blade's daughter comic because people threw a fit that writer was white.

>>87209067
>caring what people say on twitter

i don't think he's the one with the problem here

>>87211148
I believe Seeley backed out on his own for that reason, Marvel had nothing to do with his decision.

>>87211086
Don't be silly. The only transpeople that matter are mtfs.

>>87210872
The problem is that you guys think white is the default setting for characters. That's the issue here, that white characters don't have to meet this high standards to justify their existence.

>>87209829
>lowest point
>not heroes reborn

Captain Hydra is awesome

>>87210872

>The day we can stop celebrating diversity is the day we'll finally have equality.

that's boring and bullshit because diversity is good. this is stupid, you're stupid

>>87211186
>That's the issue here, that white characters don't have to meet this high standards to justify their existence.
>high standards
I don't follow. What high standards?

>>87211228
>>>/canada/

File: Screen-Shot-2014-12-11-at-9.42.36-PM-600x458.jpg (120KB, 600x458px) Image search: [Google]

120KB, 600x458px

>>87210945
Right? As a trans I do like Alysia for not being an purposefully ugly transvestite like, well like the one in Batgirl.

But the treatment of her is like, they managed to make the most bland "check all the boxes" progressive character ever.

Side note, that chapter of New 52 Suicide Squad where they just brutally slaughter a bunch of trannies is hilarious. How did nobody look at that and go, "Well gee. This is a little much."

>>87211086
FTMs are lucky, nobody cares about them or know they exist. So they disappear into society. Extra attention on FTMs right now is doing nothing but making it harder to blend in.

>>87209931
>implying you didn't just make this whole thing up

>>87211236
good writing

File: shrugman.gif (1MB, 291x260px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 291x260px

>>87209196

I actually think Marvel could have done a huge diversity push with minimal backlash if they hadn't used the tumblr aesthetic and hadn't replaced literally all their white male characters at once.

>>87210945
I love how you're projecting. this is Barbara being happy that her friend is getting married, not some "white girl fantasy".

>>87211031
And if they pander back to:

>Sexist Thor
>Whiney White Woe-is-Me Spider-Man
>Rape Victim Ms. Marvel
>Idiot Hulk
>Womanizing 1%er

will you be happy?
Or will you start bitching about how these obvious strawman examples are portraying your favorite race?

>>87211219
No, it's not. That book is one big setup that will drag you along for many boring issues then conclude with a disappointing payoff. I gave it 4 issues before dumping it.

>>87211082
Going out of their way to pretend to be the opposite sex is transexual behavior anon.
Putting on pants is not the same as dressing up as, presenting as, and convincing people you're the opposite sex.

>>87211118
>the day you guys stop whining about diversity being the day we finally have equality.
That's reactionary to the pandering though. The fact that "this has so many diverse characters" is something to celebrate means that we are definitely not near actual equality. Normal people shit isn't celebrated simply for being normal. If you want to normalize LGBTQ shit, don't publicize it exclusively on that selling point.

>>87211186
>white characters don't have to meet this high standards to justify their existence.
Well, they didn't because for a long time white was default since all the creators in the 20th century were white as was their audience. Most of the white characters there are have tenure and have been around for decades because of their staying power and history.

>>87211256
Dagger Type is cool though.

>>87210676
general thread, homestuck and frozen.

>>87211304
It doesn't really count if they don't believe they're that sex and it's just a disguise/a persona.

>>87211236
>what high standard
Why does X have to be black? This isn't something you ask about white characters.

>>87210900
*pauses, cocks head*

>>87211118
Impossible, while an idea exist there will always exist people who are not in favour

>>87211351
He's problematic.

Turning Bobby gay for no reason other than "DIVERSITY!" is gonna turn off your fans
Well, there's a whole laundry list of why they're doing shit, but yeah, that's just one

>>87211257
Straight "cis" male here.
I spent a metric fuckton of my adolescence emersed in the queer music/media scene and luckily enough, since I was an athletic not entirely ugly young man with an obnoxiously large dick, with my heterosexuality intact.
There is a large and well known civil war going on within the LGBTQA movement.
Think I'm kidding?
Ask why it changed from GLBT too LGBTQA.

>>87211256
>but the treatment
What treatment? She didn't get any special treatment.

>>87211376
It's not new characters people are bitching about and you know it. You're obfuscating the issue.

>>87209775
>>87209807

This is the guy who accused Bernie of being a literal communist who was trying to steal the election from Hillary.

>>87211256
I got scolded by a teacher for talking about passing/blending in to society for trans people, I knew that prof was a cunt.

>>87211376
People give zero fucks what color a character is. What pisses people off is that you replace long established major characters to force new ones down everyones throats, and the writing to do so if hamfisted and shitty.

>>87211376
>Why does X have to be black?
I don't see anyone in this thread saying "Why does X have to be black?" or anything even remotely equivalent to that.

>>87209931
THat sounds about right but you forgot that a lot of gays and lesbians actually don't like transexuals though. They're "allowed" in because they are sexually weird but I know a lot of them are mad that they just latched on.

>>87211272
THEY DID.
Miles-Spider-Man and SamL.Jackson Fury (just in the Ultimate U) were the first and last for a long while, and the internet shit all over Marvel for "going too far" then.
This now, this is the punishment for not being happy enough with every major Marvel hero being a powerful white male.
And does /co/ take the hint? NO. Instead /co/ whines some more.
So thanks for that, and now we can expect even more Marvel pushback.
Mark my fucking words on this, you whiners.

>>87211429
I'm not obfuscating anything m8.

This is a garbage thread. All of you need to leave

>>87211374
Yes it does. As a matter of fact, it makes them assholes who're doing it to get their rocks off, prove a point, make some money and not someone who's actually sick and has a deep emotional problem.

>>87211377
Kill yourself in real life.

>>87211376
>Why does X have to be black?
so wondering why a character can't be Asian or Hispanic is a high standard?

>LGBT character need more representation!
>even though they make up like 10% of the population altogether

this will never not be funny to me

>>87211117
Those cheeky bastards, I see what they did there.

>>87210274
The 'white American/European' experience is so strongly represented in media that literally anyone who regularly watches television or movies can reproduce it. I remember reading a story about an African writer who wrote snow into her early stories (despite having never seen the stuff) because that's just what appeared in her imported British children's books.

Anyone (not just white people, but literally anyone) trying to replicate someone else's minority experience has to work harder at it because their lives aren't as well represented in the media. With enough legwork and dedication, any of Marvel's pasty white writers could write Miles or Riri or any of the token diversity characters with deep stories that get into their cultural background and shit. But, as we all know, Marvel is lazy and trite and doesn't care enough, so we get shit like >>87210376

>>87210900
Fuck, nick spencer needs to just leave twitter he can't make himself look good.

>>87211487
Bullshit. People loved Sam Jackson Fury.

>>87211345
It's a damned if you do damned if you don't. Sometimes people want to tell stories about race and shit like that. And sometimes people even bitch when someone is X and it doesn't really make reference to being X they say "why even make them X"
>>87211457
People totally do, but they also conflate the idea that the only reason you could hate someone is for the color of their skin rather than being a shit character or coming about in a shit way.
>>87211487
I remember Miles, I don't remember Ultimate Fury but that was before my day.

>>87211489
You're trying to say people care about an issue because they're racist and not because they're destroying existing characters with knock off agenda driven shit instead of a making new ones.

>>87211460
>I don't see it at the present moment so that means it doesn't exist.

>>87211257
>>87211420
I find it funny that the people who collect diverse "friends" as if they were tokens typically think gays and lesbians love each other's company. Really, most gays seem to want to just fuck off and do their own thing, and not have to get tied into a bunch of politics or events they want nothing to do with. Nobody's saltier than a gay getting mad that another advocacy meeting was derailed by lesbians demanding representation, except maybe for the salty gays getting mad when they have to deal with yet another tacked on burlesque show for lesbians at their gay bar events.

Are you real tumblrfags or are you just trolling?

>>87211535
>Can reproduce it
Well they can reproduce the stories they read.

>>87211523
No cause that shit falls under the same umbrella.

File: tumblr_nh4pofdmaa1rfb9m7o1_250.png (208KB, 225x350px) Image search: [Google]

208KB, 225x350px

>>87211351
I agree, I actually have a soft spot for drag queen type characters. There's totally a place for characters like that despite how much people got upset.

That said for a while that was the only representation of trans people in any media (because back in the 80s that basically was trans people).

It's nice to see a modern tranny done in a comic that just looks like a girl.

>>87211428
I just mean her whole character concept.
>Minority
>Trans
>Lesbian
Like they went out of their way to make her as progressive as possible.

>>87211446
Dude, it's all most of us want. Getting called out and treated differently based on the fact that we're trans is the same as people saying, "You're not really a girl." Flares up the dysphoria and ruins moods. People don't care though, all they want is to look progressive. They'll loudly exclaim in public how okay they are with me being trans or tell people how proud they are about my 4 year anniversary of transitioning. Not because they really care, they just want to look good.

They mean well I'm sure, but it makes life harder. Doesn't help that the "public faces" of trans people are all attention whores who just want to build their whole identity around the fact that they're trans.

I've also been talked down to by a professor for saying it's better to not bring attention to this stuff all the time. She knew I was trans and wasn't herself, it was weird.

>>87211497
>IT'S MY BOARD
woof

>>87211546
Are you really going to pretend here, now, that THIS internet was accepting of a black Nick Fury?

Smoke less of whatever you're smoking.

>>87211546
People love Sam Jackson because he's Sam Jackson. Not because Nick Fury is black. Ultimate Nick Fury was cool. Nick Fury Jr is hamfisted and obnoxious.

>>87211597
Fucking racist

>>87211523
When people talk about race or say they dislike "white" people the first thing that pops into their heads is "niggers" or they try to make it into an american black vs "whites" issue. Mainly because they're that brainwashed and coddled.

>>87211487
>Miles-Spider-Man and SamL.Jackson Fury (just in the Ultimate U) were the first and last for a long while, and the internet shit all over Marvel for "going too far" then.

The difference, and this is a big fucking difference, is that the people complaining about Miles were people who didn't read comics, and the people complaining about everything now are people who do.

>>87211554
>projecting
What's the difference between Jaime reyes replacing Ted Kord and Sam wilson replacing steve rogers?

>>87211558
M8, I only ask "why does X have to be black" because it's the default "diversity" option in comics, or at least tied with "white woman." As a Spic, I feel it's entirely justifiable to ask these questions whenever the media I consume is telling me that I should be happy, because there's obvious reasons why I shouldn't be.

>>87208900
ha, trying to appeal the people who dont buy comics.

>b-but it's marvel fault if they dont buy it!

classic.

>>87210653
>Who is Rebis
>Who is Danny the street
Kekku

>>87211654
Half of the people complaining about Miles in the actual thread were butthurt that Pete died for Miles. The other half just really liked posting the Nigger-man song.
It doesn't help that Bendis totally shit the bed with him.

>>87209712
Quesada

>>87211635
True statement. Ultimate Nick was well received. Nick Jr. was the most forced bullshit I've ever seen.

>>87211617
This is a broad for comics you guys are talking about trannies. This is like hsg threads from a few years ago

>>87211614
Simone made her trans tho. What Camstew did was actually involve her with the book and had Babs interact with her more.

>Marvel, you stand accused... The Council of Faggotude... IS DISPLEASED. MORE BLACK. MORE GAY. MORE BLACK. MORE GAY.

>>87211186

>guys think white is the default setting for characters

This. also the high standards thing sounds like McDuffie talking about JLA. the team had like 3 black people and everyone freaked out

>>87211627
Yes, Ultimate Fury was not that disliked. Most fans didn't care because the story was good and it was the Ultimate universe.

>>87211597
>No cause that shit falls under the same umbrella.

Man, do you really think the black experience somehow means much for those of us who are nether black nor white? Do you think everyone non-white just magically identifies with Generic City-Dwelling Black Guy?

>>87211664
Sorry was I wasn't speaking clearer but you should be able to extrapolate that I didn't just mean black people. That's nitpicking and not actually paying attention to the argument at hand.

>>87211660
Legacy. Rodgers is still cap. Not all characters can or should be. While I disagree with how they've drawn Eleanor lately. Deadpool daughters are fighting over his name but even they admit he will always be deadpool. Legacy is still a new character. Wade wasn't turned into a hairy Mexican.

>>87211660
Jaime Reyes was decently written and fun and the Sam Wilson books have been shit??

>>87211691
>Who is Rebis
We're not counting hentai artists.

>>87211614
How do you feel about Zatannas gay friend who she accidentally changed into a woman but he liked it so much that he decided to stay a woman?

>>87208900
Marvel is failing because they're marketing to people who will never read comics while telling the old fans to suck their cunt.
and they keep doubling down on it instead of just admitting they were wrong

>>87211654
>the people complaining about Miles were people who didn't read comics
People liked Ultimate Peter. He was a shining beacon in a universe otherwise composed entirely of assholes. Peter was a hero. Peter died so Bendis could introduce his super special original character. His original character was no different in personality from Peter. Peter died for nothing.

Then Peter came back, but only so Bendis could justify the existence of Miles once more. Peter was later completely wiped from existence without ever living the rest of his life.

>>87211772
But all I want are well-written Spic characters, and I don't think there's a high standard implicit in that statement. You've decided that it's a high standard for some reason.

>>87211767

>Man, do you really think the black experience somehow means much for those of us who are nether black nor white? Do you think everyone non-white just magically identifies with Generic City-Dwelling Black Guy?


i mean in good stuff yeah. no one here is a alien powered by the sun. like it's basic empathy? we read to experience what we can't irl.

more diversity in creatives and characters is more toys in the box for people to play with and different ideas about how to play with them.

>>87211256
>FTMs are lucky, nobody cares about them or know they exist. So they disappear into society. Extra attention on FTMs right now is doing nothing but making it harder to blend in.

That and the "straight" ones would see a drop in the DL dickings they'd get from their "straight" male friends and coworkers.

>>87210291
>> No one can decide whether Deadpool is pansexual for real or if he does it to harass other people

I'd rather they not touch on this at all. For what is supposed to be a joke character, people sure do love to take his sexual orientation deadly serious.

>>87211869
Then stop making black the default diversity, or at least stop pretending you can't play with white toys, but the rest of us are perfectly fine with playing with black toys.

>>87211767
See >>87211772
But just for you anon, I'm going to do this.
>why does X have to be non-white
There, I'm no longer specifying black people and have instead generalized to include hispanic,Asians,pacific islanders etc etc.

>>87211186
What does, "Make a bunch of new characters and see who sticks." have to do with that? ANY new cape character needs to have a high standard to stick in today's market, no matter their color. Look what happened to poor Gravity.

>>87211869
>and different ideas about how to play with them.
But you see, that never happens.

>>87211660
Ted's death and Jamie's comic were good for one but for what you're asking about that actually had editorial behind it. Steve was still Cap in the huge multiple book Avengers story, which Sam wasn't even in, let alone was he Cap. Ted also wasn't brought back and then made Lex Luthor's undercover business partner less than a year into the run. Marvel clearly doesn't have faith in the concept.
Put simply, this is a shitshow (a symptom of Marvel's lack of editorial cohesion), Jamie was carefully planned and well executed as a part of the One Year Later line.

>>87211920
Don't complain about the white toys you were never playing with being replace by black toys.
Nor should you complain about toys selection in a store that you don't visit in the first place.

>>87211919
No media took it serious because they'll never get a gay character from marvel because of China. Deadpool will be never run in China ergo

>>87211921
That still doesn't make me believe there's a high standard for non-whites these days.

>>87211920

what????

>>87211504
If you're talking about Cybersix, her civilian identity is man to help her hide from the mad scientist trying to track her down. If you're talking about the Blue Snowman, she's a woman who never claims to be anything but a woman and is called the Blue Snowman because she wears a suit of powered armor that looks like a blue snowman. Hypnota is the WW villain who dresses like a man, complete with fake beard, for reasons unexplained to the readers.

>>87211985
Pretty presumptuous of you, anon.

>>87211985
>>87211998
I'm saying that it's silly for blacks to pretend that can't self-insert as whites, but then for that anon to say that people who are neither white nor black should have to just be okay with self-inserting as blacks.

>Nor should you complain about toys selection in a store that you don't visit in the first place.
What, only blacks read comics?

>>87211835
Mostly funny, I don't consider characters that have been magically transformed as like trans or anything. Like I don't see "me" in that. A lot of people seem to though.

>>87211975

You're arguing in favor of Infinite Crisis era DC editorial which is CRAZY. Marvel is almost the opposite problem of too much open reign.

>Ted also wasn't brought back and then made Lex Luthor's undercover business partner less than a year into the run.

this was a plot that started in I think Forever Evil? Somewhere in Johns Justice League/JLA

>>87211588
It's more than just reproduction. Media based around white American culture tends to get better coverage, easier distribution, and has the largest demographic by default.

>>87211941
Remember when Bruce Timm wrote the best possible backstory for Mr. Freeze, and DC basically stopped using the character because nobody could write anything that didn't have that backstory driving it? To the point that New 52 made it non-canon?

Comic book writers have a bad time being original. That's just fact.

>>87211989
Listen when people question why does X have to be non-white when there is a vast majority of characters being white than yeahI find that to be a high standard, because one essence they are asking why can't X be white.

>>87211714
This is a decent thread about the issues at Marvel which trannies are related to
You want to see bad discussion about trannies? Go to a dumbing of age thread. Comparing thisnto HSG in any way destroys your argument entirely. This is a storytime compared to HSG in board relevance

File: 1459413005189.jpg (66KB, 848x477px) Image search: [Google]

66KB, 848x477px

>>87208900
Maybe yelling "___ IS NOW ___ DEAL WITH IT REPUBLICANS!" isn't the surefire way for success?

>>87212045

Mr Freeze was also stuck in Limbo since the 60s until the BTAS team figured it out.

Nu52 Freeze was good

>>87212056
And I'm saying that you're seeing a lot more of this boogeyman than I do; a good number of the people who are seriously criticizing X for being non-white are usually doing it because it's poorly written and with the fingerprints of sleazy marketers all over it. I think the reception to most non-white characters is fine these days.

>>87210065
Oooooooh man.

>>87212027
>I'm saying that it's silly for blacks to pretend that can't self-insert as whites, but then for that anon to say that people who are neither white nor black should have to just be okay with self-inserting as blacks.

Okay.
So blacks should just be okay with having to or being forced by lack of options to self insert as whites, but it's not okay for everyone else to self insert as blacks.


Is that what you're saying?

>>87212089
>You want to see bad discussion about trannies? Go to a dumbing of age thread.

Aside from reactionary waifuing, what's so bad about it?

>>87211869
>>87211920
>>87211985
>>87212027
>>87212136
What they fuck are you two even talking about anymore? It's devolved to gibberish bullshit.

>>87212056
You're moving goalposts. The question is, "Why do we have to change a character?" to which you say, "There are plenty of white characters, you have enough."

And I mean a look at marvel's current roster shows that not only isn't really true anymore, which still isn't enough because I guess the Wrong People are writing them, it does not answer the question. You're also shifting the language so it seems like the question is attacking you, "Why must X be non-white?" plus the shifting you're admitting to.

I guess what I'm saying is your rhetoric's as messy as your typing.

>>87212122

>seriously criticizing X for being non-white are usually doing it because it's poorly written and with the fingerprints of sleazy marketers all over it.

then why are the arguments about the race and sexuality and not like actual arguments?

Like Ultimatum is a bad comic because people are killed randomly and in over the top gory ways that doesn't fit the Ultimate universe's "real life" aesthetic

>>87212136
If blacks think self-inserting as whites is bad, then blacks should be okay with whites and non-black minorities thinking that self-inserting as blacks is bad.

If blacks think everyone should be okay with self-inserting as blacks, then blacks should also be okay with self-inserting as other groups.

>>87212122
This isn't some imaginary boogeyman underneath my bed, this is an industry problem.

>>87212136
I think he's trying to say that making other races and ethnicities self-insert as black is the same thing as making them self-insert as white.

>>87212184
Welcome to 4chan. I hope you're enjoying your first day here.

>>87212041
Regardless of that forever evil plot point (where it seemed like Ted was trying to keep control of his company by the way) that was done years after both Jamie runs.

And yes I'm arguing for post IC DC because they actually put out good books and kept a cohesive feeling in their shared universe!!! Marvel only has enough good books to be counted one hand currently and their books are all over the place in feel

>>87212027
>>87212136
>>87212205

i'm not sure what's going on but the problem is that there's not the option of what to read/"self instert" because most of these superhero comics are told from the same perspective. It's just now really expanding

>>87211553
There's a huge wealth of difference between being a nuanced character informed by their race/orientation and a character being introduced solely as "it's Spider-Man, but black!" or "Thor is a girl now!"
Jessica Jones S2 having all-female directors to make a publicity stunt makes me question why her being a woman is the most important characteristic to her and not, yknow, her supposed personality. It's misplaced focus, I feel. The objective of "make good diversity character" should be just that; the objective, not the entire means itself. Changing a character's race purely for quota/brownie points is a dumb idea too.

>>87212197
The Ultimate Universe never had a "real life" aesthetic.

>>87212188
>you're moving the goalposts.
No I'm not.

Marvel's attempts at diversity are literally skin-deep. Although I guess in this case we can say it's just the tip ',:^)

>>87209778
>Black men are BY FAR the second largest consumer of Marvel
This doesn't really mean anything if 90% of all Marvel fans are still white.

>>87212197
>then why are the arguments about the race and sexuality and not like actual arguments?
Because A) trolls and assholes, but more pertinently B) it's what seems to drive the choice to make the character, it's used as a shield against criticism, which is pretty shitty if you're a minority but also want to read something decent. If you put out tripe, but make the character look like me, I'll still call it tripe AND lambast the fact that you're using diversity as a cover.

And make no mistake, there are people using diversity as a cover for shit writing, and I find that more offensive than being forgotten about by a middle aged white guy.

>>87212286

it totally was! they referenced celebrities!

>>87208900
>http://io9.gizmodo.com/marvel-comics-needs-to-do-way-better-with-its-lgbt-repr-1788086087


Disagree. What marvel needs is more books with female leads and a moderate amount of (occasionally queer) cheesecake. Basically, the Harley Quinn audience that combines:

Young MCU fangirls
Older fans
Tumblr progressives

Getting a new pigeonholed into any one area is a mistake.

>>87212255
It's far from my first day. I think I qualify as an Oldfag according to one of those charts floating around.

I just get amazed when people start talking about playing with their black or white toys and complaining about some semantic nonsense that doesn't matter.

>>87212239
See >>87212334

>>87212347

well i can't just call them a fucking idiot racist. this is 4chan everyone assumes that's the default

>>87212255
Nah, even the shittiest of 4chan threads are easy to follow. This thread reeks of tumblr-esque conversation tics.

>>87212041
post Infinite Crisis-DC was very good. 52 is better than anything Marvel has put out since. inb4 52 is considered a meme series or whatever the fuck by this contrarian board

>>87212306
>Marvel's attempts at diversity are literally skin-deep.
How true this is. All that supposed ethnic diversity, and yet everything blurs into each other.

>>87212324
Editorial becomes agenda driven because they agree with the agenda. They're not business driven people first and foremost. You're making the wrong assumption.

>>87212306
The Wakanda stuff seems to be working on portraying a foreign culture. But I suppose that doesn't count.

>>87212345
You don't actually even follow comics let alone read them do you? They've tried. And tried. And tried.
IT
NEVER
WORKS
There will never be a large chunk of new readers in cape comic while the direct market model exists. MCUfags would never read even if you changed the model.
HQ has been huge for a while now. Marvel does not have an equivalent.

>>87212383
>This thread reeks of tumblr-esque conversation tics.
My bad, m8. I've been trying to understand what the black anon is saying and get my point across, but I started using his style in a shitty attempt bridge the gap.

>>87212205
>If blacks think self-inserting as whites is bad, then blacks should be okay with whites and non-black minorities thinking that self-inserting as blacks is bad.
That's not what you said.

>If blacks think everyone should be okay with self-inserting as blacks, then blacks should also be okay with self-inserting as other groups.
That's not what you said either.

You stated that blacks should be okay with self inserting as whites, but it's okay that others should be not okay with self inserting as blacks.

Do you want to know what will happen if people fully follow the logic you're trying to hide behind?
The modern media machine we have right now will die.
Basically all media you can name would both lose any and all ability to sell itself and sell other things to the world.

Comics? Dead.
Cartoons? Dead
Video games? Dead
Movies? Dead
Television? Dead.

Things that have NOTHING to do with their race or social circle will die instantly.

The moment people of color or a completely different social background asks why I should self insert as the white people of this background or becomes outright hostile to the idea is the moment very big things will happen.

>>87212279
But it's not "Spiderman, but black", it's the next generation of Spiderman so they can do rookie superhero stories again, he doesn't even have the same powers, guilt complex, or backstory.
And you saying "Thor is a girl now" is going to be hard to explain the next time you post about how that's not REALLY Thor... because.
It's two characters; one passing on the legacy of worthiness to another.
Read a fucking comic someday.

>>87212463
It does, you're right. I'd still argue that's an exception to the rule.

>>87212306
This is my problem with Marvel's diversity.
It's shallow and it seems to be there only for Marvel to say we're diverse.

>>87212463
People make fun of it because it's africa

>>87212304
Prove it.

>>87212467
Hmm? There's very little with cheesecake in the current marvel line. Or was your statement more towards female led books in general?

>>87212537
Burden of proof is on you.

>>87212494
All of these media industries (besides comics ironically) are dyig anyway
Your post is unintelligible outside of the sentence fragments that make it up by the way

>>87212494
I said
>I'm saying that it's silly for blacks to pretend that can't self-insert as whites, but then for that anon to say that people who are neither white nor black should have to just be okay with self-inserting as blacks.

as an argument against having to self-insert based on race. Which is what I rephrased in the second post, too. Anon's acting like it's evil to self-insert as whites if you're black, and here I am saying that means non-blacks won't have to care about black representation, either.

This latter part gets to your point that everything would be segmented and the industry would die, which is why I think that anon's ideas are dumb.

>>87210900

Isn't DC Rebirth kicking Marvel's ass in sales though? Like, to me the choice is a no-brainer:

>DC: Hey everyone, we're going back to basics and giving you all what you know and love.

>Marvel: We're changing everything, AGAIN!

How can you not expect the average consumer to go with DC? Why does Marvel think that changing everything will succeed? Maybe it's just because I'm a wrestling fan, but Marvel feels like it's in the same predicament TNA was in up until a few years back, where they kept trying everything to turn their sinking ship around except just giving the fans what they want.

>>87208900
No, but it is a symptom of Marvel's larger problem of... let's say "faux-versity"

Marvel wants to paint itself as the more progressive of the Big Two, but stuff like the disappearing gays, the shitstorm over the Riri cover, the forced push of Inhumans and Alonso's shitty Bendis home at NYCC, people are finally calling Marvel's commitment to actual diversity into question

>>87212642
Perhaps the new generation of fans is growing up.

>>87212505
Actually, now that the initial rage over JaneThor is over, I think that /co/ has more or less accepted it. Sure, the whole premise of the situation is still hackneyed as fuck, but they are trying to do something new with the whole 'sentient Mjolnir' thing, and they've avoided being too on the nose about the whole thing, the Titania scene aside.

>>87212537
>>87212579
For fuck's sake, just make out already.

>>87208900
>complains about no gay headliners
>Iceman has literally been announced and is on its way
Jesus. You can't complain about this shit if your complaints are already being addressed.

>>87212505
I'm not talking about how they're presented in their stories (although I could make the case for Thor), but how they are initially announced and publicized revolving around their diversity status and nothing else. As long as we still have fanfare over someone just being a something they have no control over, then "equality" is not gonna happen. It's reinforcing the abnormal/unusual as "special." You want them to be accepted the same as everyone else? Don't treat them as being amazing just because of a surface trait. For her first run the only thing we knew about Jane's Thor is that she was a woman.

>>87212642
>Faux-versity
You hit the nail on the head for me m8, it's the hypocrisy of it all, they've gotten so preachy but DC beats them by a mile when it comes to practice and they're not being total attention whores about it.

>>87212777
Well he's about to fall into the much-maligned "Doomed Gays" trope since he's heading into IVX which an Inhuman boyfriend named... ready for this? ROMEO

>>87208900
I haven't finished this yet but what I've read so far is

>Marvel isn't doing enough for the LGBT community.
>There are a number of LGBT characters.
>There aren't enough LGBT characters that have their own book or are the lead character in a group book.
>The book that had a lead LGBT lead character was canceled.


Does it just go on like this or is there a point made as to why Marvel needs to try even harder to make a book or books with LGBT even though they don't seem to sell that well?

>>87209196
Gay nerds are a pretty huge subset of the gay community.

You've got the basic bitches who parrot everything they hear on RuPaul's Drag Race and never have an original thought in their lives (50% of them, roughly), the ordinary guys who don't make a big deal out of being gay and who you'd have no idea they were until the day you get invited to their wedding (10%) and the nerdy gays who parrot RuPaul to fit in but whose hearts aren't really in it and who probably know more about the X-Men than you do (40%).

>>87209196
Because "comics" is so small time that Disney let's them throw shit against the wall to see what sticks.

>>87212777
This goes to one of the problems of comics writing: nobody there knows a damn thing about the medium. Not about lettering, coloring, gutters, spreads, the history of the industry, etc.

What they DO know is pop culture critical theory, so that's what they write about. So, instead of an article on how say, how alternative artists weaken book's cohesion but also are necessary, we get articles on the latest outrage.

>>87212889
You have any idea of how much money time warner spent on making WW the women's ambasador of the fucking UN?
FUCKING WONDER WOMAN?

Marvel is as subtle as a slap to the balls with a wire clothes hanger about it, but at least they're honest about it.

>>87208900
No. Remove all LGBT filth from comics.

>Captcha is John Kent
Yeah he'd agree with me too.

>>87212579
Prove that really is where the burden of proof rests!
Then we should make out, like >>87212773 said.

>>87212989
I don't know what you're trying to say here, other than Marvel has no women that come within light years of Wondie

>>87213029
No more X-Men?
No more Wonder Woman?
No more Batman?

You really have a mind for editorial money-making decisions.

>>87212989
She's an honorary ambassador which is a position created solely for fictional characters, the other two being ;
>Tinkerbell
>Winnie the Pooh

>>87212777
You fucking idiot, the article did mention Iceman #1. It just thought that it was too little too late, and it pointed out (just like we've been doing) that it and the new America Chavez book don't even have announced artists yet.

>>87212777
but complaining is what they do, it's literally their livelihood, they will complain about whatever, whenever, however.

>>87213240
Did it point out that nobody gives a fuck about either Iceman or Chavez?

>>87212930
Good god.
I am so glad I stopped reading capeshit.

>>87213336
> "it also still means that Marvel didn’t see the lack of LGBT characters as a problem to address in its first wave of Marvel Now! series, or even its second."

Sorta

>>87213240
So basically, "waaaah I want my pizza delivered RIGHT NOW even though I just finished ordering it and it'll be here in 15 minutes"

The books are coming. What is this article supposed to accomplish? Make the books come faster?

>>87211148
Probably also because Afua Richardson can't put out work on a monthly basis.

>>87213607
It's more like "We ordered LGBT breadsticks with our diversity pizza hours ago, and we're wondering why it's going to take a third pizza guy when almost everyone else already got their orders ages ago"

>>87212932
This is bullshit.

>>87211304
>Batman is a furry because he wears a bat costume

>>87213535
>marlel is all superheroes

>>87212505
>But it's not "Spiderman, but black", it's the next generation of Spiderman so they can do rookie superhero stories again, he doesn't even have the same powers, guilt complex, or backstory.

If anything, that's the fucking problem. Miles has been around for five years now and he still doesn't have any noteworthy character traits, arcs or anything that makes a memorable character. His most noticeable supporting characters don't even originate from his own book.

>>87212505
>But it's not "Spiderman, but black"
Yes it fucking is. Miles is a blank slate, and no venom blast isn't a character trait

File: carol_danvers_and_jessica_drew_by_kaywest-d9roj7w.jpg (10KB, 300x150px) Image search: [Google]

10KB, 300x150px

What about Carol and Jess? And can we just admit that Carol is the father?

>>87213107
Nothing about wonderwoman is pro woman in the real world. It's creepy fetish trash made by a pervert.

>>87213240
The only time Iceman was cool was in the amazing friends, and everyone, I repeat EVERYONE hates America Chavez.

>>87212783
Presentation is one thing, we've all read a hack writer one time or another.
An editorial push is another thing, we've all seen arcs derailed by pointless event crossovers.
But this is something more fundamental to Marvel Comics.
They started (as we know them) in the sixties.
What was happening during the sixties?
The youth movement, the equality movement, the anti-war movement, the women's rights movement?
Spiderman was the youth movement superhero, he even attended in-comic campus riots.
X-men pushed tolerance themes and The Avengers added black characters to their lineup.
The Hulk was anti-war, his archenemy was General Ross and all he wanted was to be left in peace.
And every single team had a female superhero, sometimes not depicted so well... but those were the times... they didn't always present things the right way.
Then there was the black-sploitation era heroes, the quasi-horror themed heroes that thumbed their noses at the ComicsCode, the killing of Captain Marvel WITH CANCER.

Marvel has a history of breaking new ground and pushing boundaries.
This is that same thing, but adding a *gasp* woman to your superhero team isn't as revolutionary anymore.
They're now doing what they've always done in the past, but the difference is that today isn't the past. All white superhero workplaces aren't a good message to push. A man (who holds antiquated views) always being stronger than any woman could ever be isn't a good message to push.

>>87214281
nice meme

>>87214162
But not whining about "UncleBen, UncleBen, UncleBen" is a different character trait. .

>>87213985
No. Batman would be a furry if there was a litteral bat themed anthropomorphic character in media and he dressed as one and went to conventions and yiffed and fapped to furry porn.

I stand by my post. People who dress up like the opposite sex are transexuals. People who dress up, act, and want other to see them as the opposite sex for any reason other then them having a deep seated emotional and psychological problem that forces them to do it is assholery.

>>87214301
Your hate-based analysis seems biased somehow.

>>87214193
They've all but outright stated it.
They won't because that will pretty much destroy both captain marvel and spiderwoman(or any spiderwomen for that matter).
And you can say good bye to ANY appearence of danvers cap marvel in any media after that.

We might get Rambeau Cap Marvel though. So that's good.

>>87211148
I never read the comic, but please tell me the art wasn't actually like that? Specifically the faces, I mean.

>>87214347
A fact isn't a meme.

>>87210211
>And none of these champions of social justice are going to step down to actually let a minority take their place

It's good for them that Marvel isn't owned by the BBC then

>>87214472
Wondie's creation has no bearing on her impact as an icon.

And no woman in Marlel comes even fucking close to that and you know it.

>>87214301
No one's trying to argue that these are popular characters. The only reason the article brought them up is because they're literally all LGBT has in current marvel

If you were given Iceman and Chavez and were asked to identify with them, wouldn't you be pissed?

>>87214410
Prove me wrong.

>>87214522
I lent a bisexual friend of mine Gotham Central and she liked Renee despite realizing how minor she was in the scope of DC.

I guess most fags and dykes want A-listers though

>>87214516
>Wondie's creation has no bearing on her impact as an icon.
She has no impact as an icon anon. A bunch of sloppy 40+ year old legbeards and a subsection of the LGBTQA crowd is not A HUGE IMPACT.

Fucking starfire, raven, and harley quinn, have a bigger impact then she does. She's a fucking joke.
And when they reveal the island origin and how deeply fucked it is in the live action movie, they won't be able to lampshade it or give it a quick once over without looking too deeply into it anymore.

It will be picked apart by everyone and WB does not have the PR power that Disney does. They won't be able to weather it.

>>87214446
>They've all but outright stated it.

Puh-luh-eeeease... that sort of thing didn't "justify" Iceman AFTER they outright stated that he was gay.

Carol and Jess might have it a little easier given how lesbians get a pass through a culture of sexploitation, but let's not pretend the /co/ arguments of your future will be decided by a mutual recognition of the facts.
It's not going to be that easy.

>>87214575
I would imagine most casuals would be like that. In most cases, actual fans just want a character that has an ongoing/ has more than one line per issue.

>>87214575
Well, yeah. Nobody hates Renee. Because she had character before she was turned into the Question.

I'm not talking about minor characters who are well-written but gay. I'm talking about characters whose main purpose in-story is to be gay and not much else.

>>87214636
>Fucking starfire, raven have a bigger impact then she does.
you can't actually believe this

Harley currently has a case but her popularity in the long run is uncertain

>you live in a world where gay people live

>>87214446
oh for fuck's sake.

>>87214554
Well, as you have established an argument structure based upon declaration of certitude in regard to unprovable knowledge (specifically that you are universally aware of all relevant opinions) that means that I can use that same logical fallacy to proclaim that the sky being blue is all the proof I need that you are wrong.
You see how I said that... and now it's a "fact", just like how you said your thing.
You are wrong because the sky is blue.

Now try and fail to prove me wrong.

>>87214699
I mean, they kind of do. They aren't as iconic but kids are definitely more familiar with them.

>>87214636
>t. someone born in the 00's

>>87214522
No the fuck they aren't.
All of the new YA, julie powers, the rain bow girl from the runaways, the lighting dude from the new avengers is bi or something now, herculese is bi, the current wolverine that's running around is supposedly as gay as christmas, northstar, Carol danvers and spiderwoman are both apparently gay and had a lesbian butt baby.
Iceman is retconned gay, there's like four gay mutants.
Every single person that has appeared in the live action xmen movies is a gay man or is some gay guys beard/is good at pegging.
Tigra apparently had the creepy ass baby from being raped by deception by the female skrull that was pretending to be hank pym.
Jessica Jones from the ultimate universe is litterally a het man trapped in a woman's body.
All of the skrulls are apparently hermaphroditic pansexuals who change their gender as easily as one would change their hairstyle.
I can go on.

Iceman and Chavez are just now.
The former has never been cool(lol) and the latter has always been seen as a giant cunt that everyone has to put up with.

File: 1477357693160.jpg (399KB, 640x2988px) Image search: [Google]

399KB, 640x2988px

>>87208900
No, it's failing for a different reason.

>>87214644
Lesbians are only accepted if they are hot and bi, not man hating crazy, or are just harmless ugly bros.

Carol and Jess as they are being written are not the hot kind. Just the awful boring kind that makes people uncomfortable.
Actually they're just awful characters that happen to be gay.

>>87213108
Just cure them using super-science. See, now everyone wins.

I don't think Batman is in that group though.

>>87214811
Poor wording on my part. I meant all that they have in terms of 'characters in their own solo books' as a part of Marvel Now!

I know that there are more gay characters. Northstar, Xavin/Karolina, Hulkling/Wiccan, and the rest. But these two, bizarrely enough, are the only ones currently getting a push.

>>87214699
No one under the age of 30 knows anything about wonder woman. and most people above the age of 30 and aren't comic geeks, women, or some form of queer don't give a shit.

She's nothing.
She's held up as a feminist icon by that crowd, you know the one. Outside of that no one gives a shit.

>>87214799
That's adorable.
You see, adults see WW as a bit of a creepy joke. No seriously. Look at popular opinion of the character.
Everyone else? Legbeards and the gay crowd love her. Adore her.