I know I'm probably not gonna get a very balanced feminist

>>86794658
Objectification of women in purely sexual terms. Ugly women find offense in that.

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Nothing. Now let's post some BIG tits.

>>86794658
Something something think of the feelings of fictional women.

Something along those lines.

>>86794658
If you're asking for feminist reasons, WHY are you asking here?

But in general, assuming anatomy and such isn't an issue (cheesecake doesn't necessarily mean bad anatomy, it just tends to be), it tends to be so much that it distracts from the rest of the comic.

You can write a good Cheesecake comic with Red Sonja, but at the end of the day people go to the comic for a badass killbitch, an if the artist is doing so much cheesecake that it distracts from that, it's an issue.

>>86794765
Couldn't think of anywhere else to ask.

Well I could but I'll have to set up an account and fuck that.

>>86794658

there is nothing wrong with cheesecake.. there is nothing wrong with fawning over attractive women. There is something to be said about whether or not you ACTUALLY see said woman as a person or just a peice of visual candy but thats beside the question.

as far as the art goes, cartoon girls do what you want when you want when you want it cuz they're cartoons and not people. This means in a way we can objectify the illustration all day and the cartoon girl in question doesnt get hurt one way or another.

where this gets out of hand is where REAL people some how take it personally as if you were to project the same objectification onto them or other real people and in their defence there are a lot of people out there that DO just that, but not because they strictly objectify women cuz "lol sex objects", its mostly because they're shitty people and their parents didnt love them.

Plenty of women fawn over attractive males, but you dont see dudes getting upset about being objectified, it's quite literally a one way street.

think of it this way.. Go find a romance novel and read that shit, its probably full of cheesy, cringe, awkward things that would never happen in real life. Then imagine that this book was basically written as a female equivalent of pornography or if it lacks actual sexual details maybe just their version of "emotional cheesecake" (or maybe beefcake, cuz dudes? idk). You'd be thinking "My SO is into that? she wants me to b e like that?"

No, no your SO does not expect you to be the knight in glittering armor of her romance novels any more than men expect our girl friends to look like fuck'n ripped Huntress in a leotard. Its all fantasy and people have a hard time differentiating fantasy from their own emotional realities.

Cheesecake isn't wrong. There's only an issue when you're meant to take a character seriously, and all you're given to work with is cheesecake.

Cheesecake tastes great, but it's very rich and too much of it can make you sick.

>>86794876
>Not wanting your girl to dress up as Huntress

Bitch I got in shape for you, you're putting the costume on for me.

with disney owning marvel now, at least part of the reason they're covering up female superheroes is probably so they can more easily market them to little girls without making parents uncomfortable. they're beginning to do similar things to star wars (no longer producing merch depicting princess leia in her slave outfit) and even some of their own animated movies (giving Jasmine actresses at their theme parks less revealing costumes)

dc has -tried- to cover up characters like Power Girl or Wonder Woman in the past, but received incredible backlash for it. on the other hand, the most recent redesigns of Batgirl and Supergirl are a bit more modest than what those characters were wearing before (batgirl's outfit wasn't exactly skimpy, but it was a lot tighter-fitting than the current one) but these changes have been much better received. then again, the 'red diaper' outfit n52 supergirl wore looked fucking ridiculous, and most people are more than happy to see her in something closer to her classic look

>>86794658
>>86794876
Because modern women hate sex and need to be treated like objects again and have libidos beaten back into them

Nothing but tits and ass have to a backseat to plot and character.

>>86794658
In an effort to be balanced I don't want to use the term over reacting. But, I compare a lot of that sentiment to things like the instructions you have to give people at the zoo. Don't feed the animals, don't get to close to the cages, don't antagonize the animals. Why places have to caution people about hot beverages or surfaces. Gun control laws, Because NO MATTER WHAT IT IS, there are enough utter fucking idiots that have in the past and will in the future do something so completely and astonishingly stupid and harmful that a zero tolerance policy seems like the best way to keep something horrible from happening.

And that's cheesecake images. Like I have no doubt that there really are or have been enough people that believe or have used as an excuse that they saw something on tv or in a comic that led them to doing something to a woman or a group of women that is beyond comprehension. And inevitably arises those opposed to what ever act this was and say if there's a chance that even one person is motivated by this to do something so distasteful then it is perfectly within reason that we get rid of all of it.

>>86794695
Thread.

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>>86794658

Bleez is pro-cheesecake.

>>86795137
What the fuck are you rambling on about?

>>86795203
>crotch floss
FUUUUCK

EVERY TIME

>>86795241
That the argument against Cheescake is basically the same as the argument against Rock N' Roll or any other number of things.

That this could cause harm if the wrong individual was exposed to it.

>>86795137

Reddit is that way.

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>>86794658

There is nothing wrong with cheesecake, it was what got me in and superheroine comics.

you could make criticism of how ineffective on a storytelling level some art is, but a lot of people just have personal issues

Friend of mine threw some numbers at me showing me that because I looked at images of women in revealing outfits I was more likely to be a rapist once.

Off the top of my head I'd say people getting shit like that stuffed down their throats has something to do with that.

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>>86795537
>Off the top of my head I'd say people getting shit like that stuffed down their throats has something to do with that.

This attitude is prevalent in the US, some Brazilian artists don't understand the criticism.

>>86794658
I'm pretty sure I'm the only one that's going to give you a somewhat reasonable answer.
Obviously I don't care about cheesecake, but I'm friends with some girls that would really hate it so I'm just gonna channel them.

There's noting wrong with Amanda Conners Powergirl inherently. However, its a trend across not only comics, but all media, to have women be cheesecake or sex appeal first, character second. And often times, the cheesecake is hilariously over exaggerated and so far from being reasonably what women look like.
This presents a couple problems. A lot of girls are being raised in this world where all fictional women and even real actresses and the such, are being told that their looks matter above all else. They simply must be as beautiful as the impossibly beautiful cheesecake or else they're not worth anything.
On top of that, the cheesecake is so hilariously unrealistic that women who are deceived into thinking they absolutely have to look like that try drastic measures, like not eating and whatnot, in order to reach it. And if they don't, well, they just have to live with complete nonstop failure, and the mental health issues that come with that
So, one cheesecake drawing is not harmful, but when everything is cheesecake, it can have negative effects on the real world.

>>86794658
The argument is that people are exposed to seeing women in comics as x so they begin to equate real life women as also being x.

x can mean eyecandy, it can mean vapid fuckholes, it can mean 1 dimensional characters used only to further the male characters, whatever, it doesn't matter. The crux of the argument is that they believe fictional interpretations of women affect perceptions of real life women in society. Whether or not you believe that is up to you.

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>>86795688
So it's like the 'violence in video games will make violent people' argument?

LOL

>>86795710
Pretty much, yeah. No idea why the idea has so much traction nowadays.

>>86795650
>I'm friends with some girls that would really hate it
Get new friends.

>being told that their looks matter above all else. They simply must be as beautiful as the impossibly beautiful cheesecake or else they're not worth anything.
Girls who feel this way - and I use the term "girls" specifically because women don't typically display this childish attitude - are simply insecure about themselves, and use popular media as a scapegoat for their negative self worth.

Notice how no men complain about shirtless guys everywhere with 6 pack abs and glutes for the sloots. Not even boys do this.

>>86794658
Well. There's the idea that it's unproportionate amount of cheesecake to non-cheesecake characters. So if 9/10 female characters are cheesecake, it's not a fair representation of women, the female audience.

But then you point out that male characters in everything are 9/10 attractive too, and not proportionate to real men, or their audience, and you get the 'it's not the saaaaame' bullshit and you have to buy into that only men can have attractive characters be power fantasies. So I don't know.

>>86795650
>the cheesecake is hilariously over exaggerated and so far from being reasonably what women look like
Because male characters in comics aren't exaggerated from what reasonable expectations of men is.

And then you'll probably say something about how it's not the same because power fantasy or something. (Not directed bitterly at you, at the argument)

I think the answer is: you have to buy into the ideology in order to think it's a problem.

>>86795650

i would rather follow fictional heroes than some realistic standard, it's inspiring

imagine protesting action movies because people don't stumble and fall

>>86795768
>No idea why the idea has so much traction nowadays.
Because it's being parroted by people who claim to be part of the games industry and "culture critics" instead of a bunch of insane housewives too busy complaining about bad influences to their children to be good influences to their children and conservatives who fear the new media

>>86795768
It always has and it probably always will. Before video games it was rock music. Before rock & roll it was comics. Before comics it was theater, and so on to the beginning of human civilization.

I really wish we could shake the psychological propensity to act as guardians of our perceived morals and culture, but it's not something I see humanity losing in the future. There will always be a new enemy for crotchety old people to get their panties in a twist over because they don't understand it and it scares them.

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>>86794658

TRIGGER WARNING

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Sexy ≠ Sexiest

Many feminist believe the contrary, despite absolutely no evidence to suggest so.

>>86796036

*sexist

lol.

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>>86796036
How about 'sexy sexism'?

>>86795915
>insane housewives
At least housewives had a semi valid reason of 'think of the children!!' reason to do it, even if it was dumb. And the solution was 'rating systems' instead of 'change it to suiiit me'

A better reason than insecure fat feminists worried it will remind men that women can be attractive.

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>>86796105

Fred Benes is such a shitlord and I love it.

Cheesecake is fine in isolation, and it would be fine in a perfect world.

But the world we live in already values women for nothing more than looks and having an "enjoyable" personality (enjoyable meaning that the girl could be as sweet as sugar or right around the level of a true tsundere, as long as the guy likes it). Beyond that, certainly in the modern age, nothing is really cultivated as valuable for a woman to be or aspire to -- certainly not in any way that sticks.

So, I wouldn't argue that it's about "unrealistic body types." But, rather, you're creating and marketing a character whose sexiness is a big draw to them, and I think that furthers the idea that physical attractiveness needs to be a major aspect of a woman's worth.

Another embedded argument is that cheesecake allows for shitty female characters to persist that would, without being so attractive, fall from grace. Consider the small amount of fondness Carol Danvers had as a sexy-ish character, versus the largely uninterested response she's had with a more subdued outfit and hairstyle.

Contrast that with Kamala Khan, who's always been well-liked and never "needed" her attractiveness to boost her popularity.

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>>86796133
Fred doing a beach volleyball game between Peter, Bruce and Clark in one side and the other side being Lois, Mary Jane and Selina.

>>86796124
Didn't stop Jack Thompson

Gosh, remember when gaming could come together to hate a self-righteous retard who thought games made people violent?

But then we get a girl who says that games make people sexist and suddenly we're all supposed to just accept it without question and the people who treat her like Jack Thompson are called worse than Hitler.

And then she also says that violent games make people violent too.

>>86794658
Fuck the women and emasculated men who bitch about this. Women should just get together and decide what a beefcake male should look like since they keep using the power fantasy excuse. I want sexy men AND women, not unsexy everyone.

And why do people always forget lesbians when bitching about male gaze and whatnot?

>>86795710
Playing violent video games does increase levels of aggression though. This has been demonstrated and replicated an ample amount of times and shown to have a notable significant effect.

>>86796274
Link? Last I heard the American judiciary was getting really really sick of having to hold cases on this subject

>>86794917
This. It's annoying when there's an attractive female character whose sexiness is emphasized over other personal traits of hers. It's not a compelling story element, it just feels like the writer had a boner he didn't want to bother rubbing out before doing his job. Fine for porn, boring and alienating in a superhero comic.

In Powergirl in particular, I remember that I thought it was very charming that she collected snowglobes. Then some slimeball character held them up in front of her chest, complimenting her "globes", and the trait changed from "oh, that's a cute hobby" to "oh, they clearly gave her that hobby so that they could set up a joke about her having tits, that's extremely fucking stupid." It pulled me out of the story with how transparent it was. Maybe that had an origin in some older comics of hers, but this is just my take on it from the run I read.

At one point she was being carted away by paramedics and, if I recall correctly, they were talking about how they felt like groping her while she was unconscious. It just gets so tiring to read something that's otherwise very well made but makes constant gross "jokes" like that, because god forbid a character have big breasts without dudes in-universe leering at her constantly. It'd be so unrealistic if they didn't, right? What readers get anything out of that that? It just put me off of wanting to continue the story.

That said, I have no issue with her appearance. She's beautiful and her costume looks fantastic with the boob window and her hips showing. If guys want to jerk off to her I see no problem with it, just as long as it stays out of the writing. My only complaint about overly skimpy outfits like the forefront of >>86795588 is they look gaudy and uncomfortable. The artists need to get better taste in pseudo-lingerie.

>>86794658

Basically, the pushback about cheesecake is less about it being bad by itself and more about just how common it is. Nothing wrong with having a few attractive ladies in sexy clothing, The problem comes when the overwhelming majority of your ladies are attractive and in sexy clothing for no particular reason other than to look sexy to the viewer.

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>>86794695

>>86796347
Is it possible to like comments here? because that is the best answer I seen here.

>>86796280
Either his ass or he will tell you to google it.

>>86796274

I'm pretty sure I've read a few studies where it's also shown the effect wears off really fast, though, due to how dissasociated most violence in games is from any kind of real violence. I seem to remember on the range of "less than ten minutes" fast. Societal ideas can take a lot longer to shake off, on the other hand, because it's easier to find them presented in a more 2reasonable" light.

>>86796347
That's like complaining that
>Nothing wrong with having a few attractive men in skin tight clothing, The problem comes when the overwhelming majority of your men are attractive and in skin tight clothing

>>86796374
>>>/reddit/

>>86796486
I fail to see how my comment is reddit or is there something i'm not getting?

>>86796513
You're so new i can smell the precum.

>>86796429
Yes, many women are attracted to Nightwing's ass in spandex, or Captain America's ass in spandex, or Batman's abs in spandex. The "in spandex" is extremely distinct from "completely uncovered" and "shoved into the viewer's face constantly."

I won't say they don't exist, but name one dude superhero whose asscheeks are partially (or almost non-existently) covered by his normal hero outfit in a way akin to >>86795588

>>86796513
Stop posting anytime.

>>86795537

I mean, thats just the backwards way of saying rapist are more likely to be interested in women then not being interested in women.

so yeah, i guess me liking women means the likely hood of me raping a woman is higher. but rape doesnt function off numbers and statistic so none of that really matters.

>>86796218
Physical attractiveness is a major aspect of EVERYONE'S worth.
Attractive people statistically make more money, and through social studies it seems to be better for personal life

>>86796543
>in spandex
It's great that you can cherry pick all these examples, but the fact is there are many more ways men are sexualized in comics and live action media. You can count the number of times a guy goes shirtless like clockwork, and don't forget the numerous bare ass shots you can find in a movie theater.

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>>86796543
Sexy/fanservice areas of men and women are different. Every single Marvel movie has a few shirtless scenes for a REASON.

It's funny, because seeing EVERY LINE OF EVERY ABS AND MUSCLE like on every man in your picture is far more unrealistic then seeing some booty in a leotard.

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>>86796543
You should see Storm costume in the Rise Of Imperfects game (anyone played this?)

>>86796218
>never "needed" her attractiveness to boost her popularity.

Kamala attracts two sides. The progressives who want to feel cool for liking a brown muslim minority, and waifufags who like her because she acts and looks cute. If she were drawn ugly, she'd be just as mediocre as Carol Manface Danvers popularity-wise.

>>86796429

Not quite. Again, there's a difference in what is beefcake and what is simple making the dude look super buff and/or the artists being too fucking terrible at drawing to draw cloth, which is not infrequent in cape comics because art is hard.

Proper beefcake is not Batman in spandex. Batman is muscled, but not really a thing that most women are going to leer at. He's there just to look buff and imposingDick Grayson, on the other hand, is. Those opening shots in the recent Grayson comic, with Dick doing acrobatics shirtless? THAT is the equivalent of the ladies we get with their huge tits front and center. Notice the difference in build and attitude.. And it's nowhere as common as said tits.

I once saw a pretty good essay that pointed out that if you want to know what female fanservice looks like, you just need to watch George of the Jungle. Half the movie is basically female gaze.

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Cheesecake can be fun and innocent.

>>86796347
If that's what the target audience wants I don't see the problem.

>Wow, there sure are a lot of superpowers and superfights in this x-men comic book. Wouldn't it be better to be more well rounded and include more scenes of normal people talking about their feelings instead? We need to trim down this overwhelming majority of what I, someone not in the target audience, do not like.

>>86796607
Yeah and i loved. never noticed storms costume, granted I was 12-13 at the time. Also i know it wasn't a very good game course of the frankly imperfect balance.

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>>86794658
>>86794876
>>86794917
>>86796124
>>86796218
These.

There's this almost conspiracy theory-level of insane belief that Tumblrites have, that fictional characters and media have this huge impact on society and perceptions. That they might as WELL be real people, because this is how society is going to see the people of a certain demographic, as if real people are exactly As Seen On TV! and not totally exaggerated for the sake of entertainment value.

This is why you'll see these kinds of spergs ranting about fictional characters having no 'agency' over how they're portrayed (i.e. female characters being 'forcibly' portrayed in skimpy/unrealistic clothing); why they treat the murder of a fictional lesbian on a show with the exact same level of offense as if she were a victim of the Pulse nightclub; why fictional teenagers having sex is "LITERALLY PEDOPHILIA AND WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!"

It's a lot like the Concerned Parent way of thinking that was so prevalent in the past (remember VIDEO GAMES ARE TOTALLY GOING TO TURN YOUR KIDS VIOLENT!!1!11!), but somehow ten times more annoying because in this case it seems like these people should fucking know better. A Concerned Parent is at worst, ignorant of the thing they're trying to protect their community/family from, and at least have good if misguided intentions. A Concerned Tumblrite, however, wants to be seen as a Good Person by their inner circle of admirers (read: asskissers) for pointing out the obvious problems with media and society and linking the two together.

TLDR: Pic related.

>>86796619
You're arbitrarily determining what is sexy and what isn't. When spandex on a body is drawn essentially the same as bare skin, then the only determining factor that separates clothed skin from nude is the color of the garment. At that point, all you're arguing is "this isn't sexy because this thing doesn’t match X skintone"

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>>86796619
>Proper beefcake is not Batman in spandex
That's like, your opinion man.

Your post is 'this doesn't count due to my opinion/ideology/male gaze male power fantasy theory bullshit'. The fact you can see every ab is the equivalent of seeing every tit on a woman. It's exactly as unrealistic. It's as sexy to a woman as the regular cheesecake image is to a man.

it's 3 in the morning but why the hell not. to preface I am not a woman, so I cannot speak on that experience, however I would like to thinK I have a gist of an idea.
first, >>86796347, is the tl;dr, non SJW answer that even reasonable people should be able to comprehend.

In detail, there are several reasons,
1. contributes to the fetishization of a certain type of woman/body type (in over consumption/exposure). In comics, basically 95% of the women are well endowed women with conventionally attractive proportions. Yes, I understand men are beefcakes as well, but men are not fetishized as much as women. Nor does the fetishization of men have any sort of significant societal consequence.

2. mostly men dictating the creation, drawing, and portrayal of these women. Feeds into the idea that women's primary function is serve as consumption for men.

now before you respond back to me all angry, please understand that 1. I like cheesecake, 2. not all feminists share the same ideas about cheesecake, 3. some probably like cheesecake as well. I understand that comics unrealistically portrays everybody, and a lot of the time people just like to draw sexy women.

Remember that reasonable feminists probably aren't mad at the sexy by itself, they're mad that women are sexy first and devoid of character/plot relevance second. They're mad that every depiction of a woman has to be conventionally sexy because, again, it feeds into the idea that a woman's value is only based on her level of attractiveness.

And I wouldn't reduce the complaints to just "ugly women". The way most women are drawn in comics just isn't possible by the vast majority of women even if they were physically fit. Most women aren't gonna have the ass and tits of Spider-Woman or Scarlet Witch or WW without body modifications. That's just the truth about anatomy.

>>86796689
I'm not saying Dick Grayson's outfit is tight fitting but midgets are using his crotch as a sundial.

>>86795004

I bet you're fun at family reunions.

>>86796619
Pic related is you.
Also you can spot people who don't read comics a mile away with these garbage opinions on this shit.
Outside of Superman who is always going to be drawn at Strongman size, Most Superheroes are not the fuckhuge way you are describing them. This is a trend that only existed for a 10 year period from the mid 90s to the mid 2000s
Bronze Age - Extreme Age characters were draw like you're talking about, Neal Adams' Style was the closest thing to house style, which has fairly realistic body types, professional athlete tier. Currently guys like Reis and Fabok are the house style (Marvel doesn't really have one) and they draw men to be more lithe and athletic than bodybuilder.

Beyond this, fuckhuge guys are hot as shit to a lot of women. Almost every gigantic guy I know gets a lot of pussy or has an attractive consistent girlfriend. I don't know any guys who are body builder tier, but outside of some shitty 90s artists they were never that big, just bigger than the average Swimmer/Running Back/Third baseman

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>>86794658

Females like cheesecake as much as males, the female power fantasy is be the most attractive woman in the world.

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>>86796707
forgot pic

>>86796692
>I am not a woman, so I cannot speak on that experience
you sound like a cuck

>Yes, I understand men are beefcakes as well, but men are not fetishized as much as women. Nor does the fetishization of men have any sort of significant societal consequence.
"Yeah they get it to but IT'S DIFFERENT GUYS. BELIEVE ME."

>>86796717
That comic is always super funny to me, as a woman who is super into anime. The unedited version is like, all anime. And yet fucking cunts complain about 'moe is sexist'. Moe is like, fucking, everything feminists complaining about comics want, but they will never go THERE. Completely unsexualized women, who are the only main characters who exists in a world pretty much without men. But it never stops. You can never make 'good for women' products. Don't try.

>>86796692
>Nor does the fetishization of men have any sort of significant societal consequence.
I personally don't really believe the fetishization of women does, but I'd argue that men are seen as having given automatic consent sexually, to the point where if a man and woman are both drunk and have sex the man is generally charged with assault/rape even without evidence of actual forced sex rather than just the law of "drunkenness=no consent". Women are free to touch men any way they want without repercussion because they are seen as desiring it 24/7.
If I had to say there's a social reprecussion that would sum it up

Either way you're a complete faggot

>>86794876

Your post reminded me i got myself dehydrated to look ripped as Hugh Jackam did in The Wolverine, and that i was going to do my hair and temples just like him, all for my stupid ex that was into the character, and that the bitch stopped me because she didn't wanted me looking like motherfucking Wolverine.

I almost killed myself doing that shit. Lost almost all the water in my body. For fucking sure i'd go out as fucking Wolverine. We ended ending because of that.

>>86794658
>>86794876
>>86796665

almost ALL of the people who are "offended" by lurid fictional characters and are triggered by this shit are also the ones who are not a part of comic book culture, who think it's all capeshit, and don't realize that even in the capeshit comics, there are strong female characters. if they had the brains to ask someone who reads comics about strong female characters that were not cheesecake, any one of us on this board could make a comprehensive list of female characters that are narratively strong and/or not cheesecake

>>86795004
you can get a woman to have a good libido by convincing her to have sex with you often. what we need are more RL whores who embrace their sexuality and we need more people like me to respect them for it. just fuck and be happy. it's a simple concept. those who can't handle polyamory are emotionally stunted

>>86796029
people who like DC have low standards. that's all there is to that. if you're upset about cheesecake, you're going to find most of it in DC comics. the answer to this is to stop looking at or reading DC comics

>>86796268
>why do people forget lesbians

because lesbian bed death. women have a hard time getting turned on already. two women having a relationship is probably going to lead to them just waiting to have sex maybe once or twice a month

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>>86796665
>fictional teenagers having sex is "LITERALLY PEDOPHILIA AND WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?!"

leave it to feminists and puritans to not only not know the word "ephebophilia" but also to be against sexual imagery in general

>>86796785
>if you're upset about cheesecake, you're going to find most of it in DC comics
You do not read comics. Stop pretending to.

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>>86796532
>>86796544
Hahaha what?

>>86796692
>i am not woman

trust me, if you have to preface everything you say with an ethnic, gender, or some other kind of identifier, we have no reason to take the things you say objectively or seriously. you are not egalitarian if you think people should take you for your word based on something arbitrary.

>>86796750
Good for women products are just good products with a lot of attractive men in them. That's it.

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>>86796707

Oh, I do read comics. Probably not as many as you, granted, seeing how there are comparatively few comics released in my area (because Europe), and of capeshit I mostly follow DC, but still. And guys like Rebirth Batman are not really fanservice. Let me go get an example from Rebirth out of google.

Look at all the dudes here. They're wider than a truck garage, and at no point in #1 was Arthur really framed in a "sexy" way. He's not beefcake. He's just a dude that happens to be huge.

>Beyond this, fuckhuge guys are hot as shit to a lot of women. Almost every gigantic guy I know gets a lot of pussy or has an attractive consistent girlfriend. I don't know any guys who are body builder tier, but outside of some shitty 90s artists they were never that big, just bigger than the average Swimmer/Running Back/Third baseman

I thought we were talking general trends and shit. Yes, a lot of men prefer DFC, but you don't see anyone taking exception to the idea that man fanservice generally includes big boobs. But, again, cheesecake/beefcake is a lot about framing, build, and attitude, and catering to the fantasy.

Also, as to >>86796717, I actually DO think that most men wouldn't mind things more female gazey in the slightest, and that their reaction would often be "yeah, that looks cool". So why not do it more and level the playing field a bit?

>>86796580
Shirtless is definitely not the same as ass-out. It's not even the same as tits out. It's MAYBE the equivalent of a girl showing off her full legs or midriff. With bare breasts and bare asses there's a level of taboo and social abnormality to it that makes it thrilling, but you see dudes going shirtless all the time - swimming, jogging, casually changing shirts in public - because it's socially permissible. How many times do you see a woman in a superhero movie going completely topless comparatively? This isn't because the women are less sexualized, it's because that particular form of male nudity is normalized.

And, again, you don't see it as part of their regular outfit. I know some people who would LOVE to see Thor fighting shirtless in his movies, but he gets a full costume. Even a chestplate! The scenes where he takes his shirt off are certainly a form of sexual pandering, but it's absolutely not the same as a woman wearing a battle bikini as her main crime-fighting outfit.

>>86796750
Most moe isn't sexist in itself but it is fucking terrible and the main group of people who enjoy it (and are directly pandered to by the studios) are dudes who want to fuck the semi-handicapped teenage characters. Women don't usually embrace any random garbage that just happens to match vague parameters of non-sexism.

>>86796816
do you know what psychological projection is?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuA8K1mQWMc

>>86796833
>is it possible to like comments here
>how is this reddit
>what
Are you retarded son?

>>86795650

Why women think that only them are forced into a standard of beauty by the media? Specially nowadays where you've more gyms around a corner than pubs?

Pretty much every guy in my social circle go to the gym three or four times a week. Shit is getting so ridiculous that you now have gyms inside companies, so that you can work-out while working. It's gotten to the point where the only place i can catch up with my old friends is at the gym. People expect you to eat healthy and look good. It's like back in 2000's when smoking became a huge taboo. People frown when they see you only eating junk-food. You can't have that beer gut anymore.

Either way, i totally lost my goddamn point. Fuck, i hate this world.

>>86796816
are you referring to the 90s cheesecake with Image and other comic book publishers?

yeah, they have almost completely stopped doing that. DC still does

>>86796859
You don't like comments on reddit retard, you upvote. Liking posts is like Facebook or Spacebattles or something.

>>86796859
I don't how reddit works, hell I been here for a few moths and just finding out that I can edit the top of the board to have only the threads that I Like.

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>>86796785
>if you're upset about cheesecake, you're going to find most of it in DC comics

Maybe 5 years ago but DC has cutted a lot of its cheesecake, the cheesecake King Ed Benes changed his art style to be less "offensive".

>>86795650
why don't you tell your friends that they can literally get laid any time they want, especially if they're not obese and not a rude piece of shit.

that is literally all that a female has to do, she can pick almost any man she wants and start a relationship.

if she takes care of herself and knows how to use make up, she can be a sugar baby and make money just dating rich men without even having sex with them.

women are not "decieved" in to anything except when they deceive themselves or being overly emotional.

>>86796852
It's a really shitty excuse people use to cover up the fact that they have been called out.

Saying DC is mostly cheesecake, or even that you're going to find the most cheesecake in DC when companies like Zenoscope exist or characters like Vampirella and Lady death do
(and don't fucking give me that "le mainstream" crap because then you're just proving my point) is an insane statement that really only can be found from someone high off their ass on the fumes of their own bullshit.
Also Marvel just moved away from a cheesecakey style about 5-10 years ago if we are talking just big 2. Look up Spider-Woman or Captain Marvel from Bendis' Avengers era, read any She Hulk comic before Marvel Now, look at any comic Greg Land has ever done for the company, and tell me DC is the only cheesecake company.

Shove your fucking projector where the sun don't shine you faggot

>reading Power Girl
>getting mad at the cheesecake and sex jokes

you did this to yourselves, girls

actually, since you read fanfiction, romance novels and watch porn, you shouldn't have a problem with this shit

but hey, you're women, not clear thinkers like men

>>86796910
>Why women think that only them are forced into a standard of beauty by the media? Specially nowadays where you've more gyms around a corner than pubs?

As someone who hangs around feminists a lot, they're actually noticing that there is starting to also be a body image push on men too from media and especially beauty product companies recently, and the general consensus seems to be adequately summed up by "let's hope this breaks the camels back and we can all push back together".

>>86796957
>not obese and not a rude piece of shit.

That's the problem.

>>86796980
Fuck them and fuck you. Push back on what? being healthy?

>>86796942
DC is cheesecake, anon. that's all it has ever been. the origin of wonderwoman is BDSM

>maybe 5 years ago

no. right now, and long before 5 years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91IZfMWoQtg

>>86796960
>zenoscope lady death, vampirella
that's not MOST of the cheesecake, that's only some.
>marvel moved away from it
hence my claim that DC is most guilty

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_z1dFCtc6yo

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>>86796942
>DC has cutted a lot of its cheesecake

But didn't eliminate it entirely.

>>86796844
THE EMBASSY, WOMAN!

>>86796992
Zenoscope publishes more cheesecake in a year than the big two have published in the last 10 years combined. Get bent you fucking casual.

>>86796980
Except that most people WANT to look good and have advertising that says looking good is a good thing "pushed on them".

The people who want to "push back" are just either looking for whatever the modern form of the nonconformist movement is in this age where all the rock music is weak and being grunge or goth or what have you isn't a thing anymore, or they're fat and lazy people who don't want to feel bad the way they deserve for their poor lifestyle choices.

>>86796844
>For Atlantis, Arthur?
>No
>For me

>>86796992
You genuinely don't know what Zenoscope is do you?

>>86797043

hi there. do you know what greentexting is?

>>86797044
>you will never get to press your body up against PG's chestbutt

feels pretty bad man

>>86797044
Don't change your argument faggot. You said DC published the most cheesecake, that is patently, completely ridiculously, false. You know shit about comics, you just like to complain and jeer about them. Go drink bleach.
Oh and btw, apparently more women read Zenoscope than the big 2 :^)

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>>86796105
Wish this was cannon, lord help me. Benes go somewhere else and be amazing.

>>86797044
this at nycc?
i couldn't make it this year
need to know of all the sessy big tits cosplays

>>86796974
When I watch porn the people who make it don't expect me to give a shit about the plot like the fucks over at DC. Why's it so hard for men to enjoy a story without having to whip their dick out over it?

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>>86797022
And yet, strangely enough, Zenescope is popular with women, both in terms of creators and audience.

>>86797068
>You said DC published the most cheesecake, that is patently, completely ridiculously, false

i don't think you understand. my argument was, in my FIRST post to OP, that many of the people who criticize comics are those who don't read comics and who only see DC cheesecake.

the feminists and puritans who hate sexual imagery do not read zenoscope.

for you to have zenoscope as a litmus test for cheesecake when DC comics are targetted at kids, you are the one shifting the argument by strawmanning me. go back to my original comment that you were triggered by.

DC sales and certainly DC exposure is more than zenoscope.

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>>86796690

Official Cass cheesecake.

>>86797073
no idea. i just saved the pic when i saw it (probably from a google search years ago) specifically for arguments like these.

>>86794658
Cheesecake is the best thing about comics.

>>86797084
Fanfiction and romance novel plots beg to differ. Also, I don't remember Tolkien whipping his dick out in Lord of the Rings, but than again, I bet you think it's sexist that he didn't include any prominent women in his trilogy.

>>86797096
>Blah blah blah backpedal backpedal backpedal, throw in some false outdated statements like comics being aimed at children, really lock in that I don't read comics

Seriously get fucked.

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>>86796750
The term 'Moe' has sort of has become like Mary Sue,

>>86797073
I don't know where it was taken but the cosplyer is Marie-Claude Bourbonnais.

I just know that because she's a model in a lot of soda pop miniature's stuff.

>>86797112
read my original response to OP.

http://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/childrens/childrens-book-news/article/66375-dc-debuts-line-of-super-hero-graphic-novels-merchandise-for-girls.html

http://www.toysrus.com/products/dc-action-figures.jsp

>>86797093
>in terms of creators and audience

your image proves the claim about creators. please provide citation considering zenoscope's audience.

>>86797117
MC Bourbonnais even cosplayed some sex comics character.

>>86797140
http://archive.is/AXiKU

>>86794658
It makes the unattractive feel self conscious about their own appearance.

Combine this with the mentality of women having to always be considered attractive as men traditionally don't have this kind of pressure to live up to.

>>86797128
Yes that is a line specifically aimed at children that has no cheesecake art in it you fucking idiot. When they have to make a special line for the target audience of children, you can no longer say the company's main audience is that target audience
Toys are not comic books
Thanks for fucking playing

>>86797164
thank you kindly

>>86797109
I don't actually read fanfiction or romance novels and I'm sick of the continual cultural circlejerk over Lord of the Rings, if that counts. And he was just as free to make the vast majority of the characters male as I am to not give a single shit about it.

>>86797044
PowerGirl cosplay can make any average Jane into a goddess. Now what does she look like in her everyday clothing?!

>>86796980

I just wish for there to not be a gym in my work-place.

Here's a warning: never ever let the company built a gym where you work. Tell your coworkers this and band together against it. This shit is a fucking trap. It'll turn your life into a nightmare.

Everybody will become paranoid about not putting enough effort at the gym and getting fired for it, because trust me: your boss will be paying attention and if you don't put the necessary effort during the work-out or fraternize enough at the gym with your co-workers, then he'll look up if you're also slacking at your job or not working well with your co-workers as well. AND FOR THE LOVE GOD, DON'T CHECK YOUR CO-WORKERS WORKING OUT LIKE A PERVERT, BECAUSE YOU'LL BE CALLED BY HUMAN RESOURCES FOR A "TALK".

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>>86797177
what's that?

they want to sell a line of toys to get them interested in buying comics?

oh, is THAT how a business works? you resell old shit like star wars to different generations so they grow up and spend money again as an adult?

no, thank YOU, anon.

>>86797128
>>86797177
Oh and your original response to OP is about casuals, but then you go on and say DC has most of the cheesecake in comics, you do not talk about how this is from the casual perspective, nor should I infer this, because you are no longer replying to OP you are replying to a completely different post.
So, I was correct in saying, Back. Pedaling.

>>86797198
Be honest, would you put beefcake in comics if you could?

>>86797233
and what, pray tell was the comment i was replaying to?

oh look, this was the comment i was replying to

>>86796029

wow. look at all that cheesecake

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>>86797069
It's his brother Fred Benes, I think he only worked on some Witchblade issues and mostly does commissions, but I saw a video of him working on the Ed Benes Studio.

He did the Cain family.

We need to eliminate women from all fiction because all they're good at is being forgettable supporting characters.

>>86797218
This has literally nothing to do with your argument though, and if you want it to, it fucking destroys it since 3 seconds ago you were talking about how DC is selling cheesecake to children when that is demonstrably false through evidence you yourself have posted. DC is not a children's company if they have to have a children's line that publishes a fraction of the books the main line does,and probably fewer than fucking Vertigo a specifically adult line.
Just how stupid are you? Where are you on the Dunning-Kruger scale here, just read Watchmen and TDKR or pure virgin non reader?

>>86794695
fpbp

>>86797281
Women took over Star Wars.

>>86794765
>If you're asking for feminist reasons, WHY are you asking here?
Well this place isn't called /co/mblr for no reason

>>86797266
Holy shit are we back at the start again? Kill yourself.

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>>86797281

>>86797266
Should we get a marvel cheesecake dump going for this retard?

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>>86797286
you sound upset about something.

>>86797307
Authority was awful like everything Ellis writes, what's your point?

>>86797294
And you see how awful Star Wars is these days.

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I see no problem with it regardless. If I created the character, then well it's my creation and I should have the right to draw them as I wish. Pic related, as Joji (George) Manabe made porn of his characters, and made it canon, and that was basically his answer. And if fans made the art then honestly I'd be flattered that they find my characters so attractive. Just no NTR please, it's all I ask.

And if it's not my work and I'm making the art, well really that's just me expressing how attractive I think this character is.

>>86797314
The 90s Marvel had as much cheesecake as Image comics, heck, it was the Marvel cheesecake guys who created Image.

>>86797334
and now that's over, and DC is still publishing cheesecake

>>86797334
DC also had cheesecake in the 90s

>>86797244
I'm actually writing my own comic and, because I care about the story itself, I'm not going to use it as a venue for thinly veiled porn. That's distracting and boring. If I were to make a story starring the kind of guy I'm attracted to in sexual situations/outfits, I'd be very straight-forward about it being pornographic because it strikes me as unbecoming to pretend otherwise.

>>86797317
>haha u mad
Yep of course we're there. And you're goddamn right I'm mad, I've had to argue with your dumb ass for a while here only for you to give up arguing.
I hope your best friend gets stage 4 cancer and kills all your other friends in a murderous rage upon hearing the news, then the love of your life gives you HIV from a sexual session where they reveal they're a furry, and you get aids from yiffing. I hope your parents are suckered into giving all their money away and forced to live with you for the rest of their lives on your income and I hope any pets you have are stolen and vivisected in a fashion that shows up on national news, "this material is graphic" and all.
Fuck you.
If you're a troll, you got my goat, good for you, if not, I hope you step on a thumbtack after surviving all that and get tetnus and fucking lockjaw, so you die where your dumbass mouth can't spew any more bullshit, and while first being taken into the hospital for it, you have an allergic reaction to the medicine which leaves your hands in complete agony, but beyond use, so you can't shit up the internet either.

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>>86797394
or maybe you're just wrong

>>86797340
So is Marvel? Anyone have that silk book with the fat asses? Top tier stuff, sexier than anything at DC recently

>>86797409
No, I'm not going to go and actually look and prove to you how much more cheesecake a company Zenoscope publishes than DC, but you completely changed your argument several times since then, only to backpedal all the way back to the original. Have a fucking terrible day.

>>86797410
i'm not the one that started in with the "marvel too" tu quoque. no one is saying marvel has never published cheesecake

>>86797416
i haven't changed my argument once.

>>86797394
Cape fans are fucking wild.

>>86797429
>if you're upset about cheesecake, you're going to find most of it in DC comics.
>>86797044
and what are their comparative sales and target audiences?

That's a different argument. You started at sheer volume and shifted to mainstream exposure when shown to be wrong.

>>86797449
i think we can narrow it down to specifically DC fans. go to any thread about marvel and marvel fans will criticize the shit out of it.

criticize DC and feelings get hurt

>>86797329
>Just no NTR please, it's all I ask.
Pussy

>>86797449
Hey buddy, I read more non cape comics than cape ones, and almost as much manga as I do western comics in general which is pretty much all non cape. I just read a shitload of fucking comics. I'm coming down from some methylphenidate I railed, give me a bit of a break

>>86797458
>You started at sheer volume and shifted to mainstream exposure when shown to be wrong.

except DC has more volume and exposure of cheesecake than zenoscope, which specifically does cheesecake, because zenoscope doesn't have toylines for kids or movies produced in hollywood, and hasn't been in existence as long as DC for zenoscope to have decades of exposure like wonderwoman has or any other group of DC characters.

>>86797458
>>86797429
>literally deleted the comment where you changed your argument
Holy hell.

>>86797459
Marvel boys still defend the shithole that marvel has become.

>>86797476
i didn't delete anything!!!

>>86797474
But it doesn't have more volume, every single book zenoscope publishes is cheesecake on almost every single page, DC publishes maybe 2 issues a month if that, that have a few cheesecake scenes
Stop being so fucking retardedly obstinate.

>>86797478
no the fuck i won't.

>>86797449
Can't get that level of insane storytelling anywhere else. He basically just posted a Millar OC

>>86797479
The mods are angry with you.

>>86797485
you're arguing semantics. DC has been existence for decades longer than zenoscope. DC sells more comics than zenoscope. DC has hollywood movies and toys for kids where zenoscope does not.

like if a single porn line sells movies for the last 2 years, that does not mean that it's "more" than the volume and exposure that, say, sports illustrated has published for decades

>>86797489
What?

>>86797501
maybe they're DC fans

>>86797509
you claimed that marvel fans will defend marvel.

i am a marvel fan. marvel is shit. talk shit about it, i don't deny that marvel is now shit. this is well known by marvel fans. you can stop making strawman arguments at any time.

>>86794658

Personally, I never understood why someone would want breast that heavy. That particular image you chose - the problem I would have is the same problem I had with the New 52 Supergirl design, which wasn't just the stupid metal panty shield, but the ridiculous knee holes in the boots. If this was supposedly Kryptonian armor that was given to females at a certain age as a sign of maturity or entrance to adult hood, as was depicted in the Zero issue, it's absurd to assume any parent on any planet would be picking out that kind of outfit for a child, unless you were a drug addicted parent who had no clue that your daughter had to turn tricks in order to eat because you were using all the household funds to shoot up with.

As far as socially harmful, do you have a sister or daughters? Nieces?

You do have a mother. How would you feel and do you believe she is harmed if she was expected to have exceedingly large tits, wear tops that showed them off with an unexpected and unusual large window whose only benefit was showing off a large amount of cleavage? And she also has to wear a outfit that's essentially a skin tight pair of high cut panties with a corset, belted and knee high boots, to earn a living?

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>>86797511
Or maybe you're fucking annoying faggot.

You derailed this thread with DC bashing, fuck you.

You're pic related.

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>>86797476
oh it was the pic of the PG cosplayer holding a young girl. the mods must have deleated it

>>86797501

>>86797511
Everyone knows mods have marvel bias though.

>>86797504
I'm not arguing semantics though, I'm arguing the facts that DC is not some sort of cheesecake company and certainly is not the major producer in the industry which is what you claimed. That's just a fucking ludacris statement.
And your omission of Marvel because of a 5 year change in art direction (that doesn't even entirely eliminate cheesecake, Land, Yu and Rocafort still work there and get lots of work, and those are just big name artists that are drawing cc) is like saying because playboy has stopped running nude girls, it's not a nudie mag.

>>86797556
obviously not

>>86797520
That grammar lel. My point was that there are still plenty marvel boys that defend marvel even now, not that you're one of them. Hell, you might still be.

>>86797562
>because playboy has stopped running nude girls, it's not a nudie mag.

but that's exactly what it means. if it doesn't have nudes, it isn't a nudie.

words have meaning.

>>86797576
still strawmanning. :)

From the comments I've read, cheesecake is apparently ok if the woman in question is smiling all the time, so it's "happy" skimpiness.

>>86797577
And the word playboy makes every single person who hears it think "nudie mag"

>>86797577
So things are only exactly what they are in the current moment? The Roman Empire never existed?

>>86797564
Facts say otherwise.

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>>86797592

>>86797608
no. just because you say "roman empire" does not mean it exists NOW.

>>86797611
oh okay so i guess you have proof that most or all the mods on /co/ are DC fans?

>>86797608
This is a completely absurd statement and you are a tremendous retard. You sound like a woman.

You can cut the autism in this thread with a blade.

>>86797633
No blade is that sharp.

We can end this whole shitflinging discussion right now if someone just posts that one 'cap in which that girl praises Amanda Connor.

>>86797640
but the thread started with OP's pic of powergirl, the epitome and one of the most well known cheesecakes, copyrighted by DC/Time Warner.

>>86797650
I don't see how that relates to what I said but sure. The screencap I'm talking about is about powergirl, if that helps.

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>>86797650

I started reading comic books in the 90s and what I remember it was Marvel and Image pushing cheesecake hard.

Rogue was the queen of cheesecake in the 90s.

>>86797687
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanda_Conner

>>86797690
no one is denying that marvel did that. DC was and still is.

is marvel currently pushing cheesecake like DC? don't think so.

>>86797691
What are you trying to tell me?

>>86797702
i think we're talking passed each other about the same thing but we can't determine if we agree since you haven't posted the pic you're talking about

>>86797706
I lost a lot of my files recently. I'm procheesecake.

>>86796813
When you're arguing on the semantics on what kind of pervert you are you've already lost.

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>>86797690
I don't know but judging by the current batch of writers I doubt many of the Artist from the 90s and 00's still work there either.

Which is a shame because I think the mid 2005 period was when they really perfected their visual style in general.

>>86797690
The most cheesecake thing I remember about 90s DC was Deodato Wonder Woman, especially Artemis.

>>86794658
There's nothing wrong with that.
As there's clearly nothing wrong with objectifying men either. Women do it all the time, and we're supposed to be fine with that.

I AM fine with that. I'm also fine with the general sexualisation of people, because I'm not a yank and human beings are sexual creatures.

But some people suffer from low self esteem and is unable to accept that others doesn't.
Or can't handle being confronted with said low self esteem - so instead of accepting themselves, the blame the world.

Enjoy what you enjoy.

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>>86794658
The Japanese have ecchi... and worse.

>>86797902
And yet, female characters there can make it big as central protagonists.

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>a thread literally says it's looking for a feminist perspective in the OP
>people don't just immediately report and hide it

/co/ is total shit, half of it because of incompetent management but the other half is gullible, lazy, stupid users who would rather fellate their own egos in an argument about women on a thai fish cooking IRC. Report and hide shitpost threads you dumb shits.

>>86797917
Ladybug is becoming big.

>>86794658

Most cheesecake is just shitty objectification. That's bad for obvious reasons.

But like, notice how nobody dumps on Gray-Palmiotti-Conner's Power Girl for having cheesecake? It's because context matters. They did it in a way that wasn't shit and insulting, so people like it.

>>86797917
Because of sexism, ironically enough. Same reason girl anime is about fuckboys.

I don't think the problem is cheesecake per se, it's that cheesecake has become the norm in Superhero comics. (Most) feminists don't have a problem with Baywatch, because they can watch other good shows, there was just a cheesecake show as well. But these days, it's hard to find a superhero comic that doesn't have cheesecake. Or so they argue. I'm not sure if that's true, I don't read current superhero comics anymore.

>>86797933
There was text in this thread?

>>86798129
This, basically. The same reason behind why a lot of feminists like Bayonetta and didn't thrash Blizzard when they replaced Tracers cliche "butts-am-I-right-lads" pose with one that fit her character better that still showed off her butt.

>>86798135
I can say you may not be looking hard enough.

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>>86798135

So what if they do? They're superhero comics. The characters in those stories are bigger-than-life, almost gods. Of course they're going to be as idealized human beings as possible. Its the simplest form of escapism fiction can provide. Its not exactly Shakespeare and shouldn't even attempt to be. They're simple stories of heroism. What part of "super" does not the feminazis get about superhero stories?

The biggest thing I hate about Tumblr and its censorship-happy nagging is the fact their arguments dont hold any water.

>"Sexy women in fiction can cause harm in real life"
-is the absolute same shitty argument we have about violence in fiction.

>"Oh, violence in fiction can cause real harm because people will re-enact everything that happened in the book!"

We don't let religious idiots get away with their shitty arguments but somehow people are ready to accept the exact same argument just because it happens to come from a different source. Its still a form of censorship and a form of puritanism no matter how much you try and coat it with "progressivism".

If barely naked people in advertisements cause you PTSD or bad self-image, its time to get some therapy, clearly you're not mature enough to live in this world and this society yet. And here is the difference between the way how boys are girls are raised on the matter:

Boys are conditioned to strive for the body you see in women's romance novels and to seek for attention of women. If you fail at both, well too bad you're just a fucking loser and not a real man. How this differs from the world of girls is that nobody gives a shit if the boy feels bad about himself. If he doesnt want to feel bad about himself, he goes to the fucking gym and works out. Part of growing up what feminists never get is that theres always the alternative of simply not giving a shit about body images and what other people might think about your looks. Boys have to learn this the hard way, girls play victim instead.

Retarded american prudishness coupled with feminist views on the objectification of women gives you the most absurdly scizophrenic situation where female sexuality is supposed to be encouraged but at the same time be hidden from males.

You fat fucks have really outdone yourselves this time.

>>86798129

Actually they do. Tumblr and blogs like Escher Girls have been complaining about the boob window for years.

>>86797215
>durr the post
Leave your shitty company.
I've had a gym in mine for years and barely anyone gives a shit. Most people prefer to join the running group

Nothing is wrong with it.
If it were that offensive or wrong, fucking Skwad Harley wouldn't be on track to being the number one women's halloween costume.

The people that complain about it are a vocal minority that exist to complain because they've got a lot of anger and nothing better to do, nothing more.

>>86796218
>Contrast that with Kamala Khan, who's always been well-liked and never "needed" her attractiveness to boost her popularity.
>never "needed" her attractiveness to boost her popularity.
Let's see how she does being drawn by Ramos before really making that claim.

>>86796849
>Thor fighting shirtless in his movies, but he gets a full costume.
Odinson has been shirtless in comics for a while.

>>86797731
>being attracted to other human beings that are sexually mature is perversion

so are you puritan, asexual or mainstream feminist?

>>86794658
It doesn't make sense to me why a lot of women find it objectifying yet a lot of them are gonna dress up as Harley Quinn from Suicide Squad.

>>86797005
too good for Queen

>>86798581
They dress up as Harley because they think Harley's cool, not because they want dudes all over their tits

To be fair, chocolate cake is better.

>>86796242
Gotta love pussy whipped white knights.

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>Work at the cheesecake factory
>No cheesecakes work there

>>86794658
Personally I dislike that it's considered the norm to the point where SJWs praise anything that doesn't include it and not including it is considered some statement of equality. I don't mind it when it has it's place and fits the character, I do mind it when it makes comic or show look like bad sfw porn done by a horny teenager, it's distracting and makes it hard to treat the writing or art seriously. But I also think that men are given much too uniform bodies and looks too so it's not just a problem with cheesecake but rather with general trend of making everyone look the same, though it is slightly less prevalent and obnoxious compared to women. So nothing is wrong with most individual cheesecakes though it often causes terrible anatomy, but that's artists being bad at their job, but it gets really tiring because of how common it is. Watching people praise mediocre or bad product just because it's "progressive" isn't fun either and that is caused by that too.

>>86798656
But Harley totally wants dudes all over her tits

>>86794658
It's literally pandering to teenage boys. It's always forced and awkward and if you go into a project with the intent of making cheesecake, you should honestly just go all out and make porn because good art clearly isn't your goal

>>86797696

I don't know what Marvel is pushing but it ain' selling

>>86799383
Why does it have to be All Or Nothing?

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>>86799441
It IS selling but they're currently getting blown the fuck out after a long reign of devouring half the market themselves.
>>86799533
Because I only appreciate mature art for mature artist such as myself.

>>86799533
Because otherwise we get current situation where nobody is happy and everyone whines about pandering to the other group. A combination can be done well but it requires skill, something that most people either don't have or aren't paid enough to use.

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>>86796785
>>those who can't handle polyamory are emotionally stunted

how does that BBC feel in your ass buddy?

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>>86796717

>>86796750
>As a woman
The best part is that strip was drawn by a guy using a girl as his mouthpiece