I'm dropping Batman (2016). It's not that the first

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I'm dropping Batman (1990)

It's not that this story arc was bad, exactly. I'd say it was worth the asking price. But I thought this Batman run was going to be about, you now, Batman. Apparently Alan Grant has other plans.

>>86006802
It'd be awesome if either of them had personalities.

>>86006759
I... kind of agree. While I love how King is characterizing most of the familiar faces, Gotham and Gotham Girl are boring as hell. I think the arc is ending soon. then we can get into the three Jokers mystery... yay.

>>86006914
Are you implying that run was good?

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I'm dropping Tails Gets Trolled.

It's not that the first story arc was bad, exactly. I'd say it was worth the asking price. But I thought this "Trolled" Tails series was going to be about, you know, Tails. Evidently Lazerbot has other plans.

>>86006953
Gotham Girl had a chance to be pitched as an interesting character to the audience for five issues. She failed. Why would I want to buy a whole arc focused on her?

>>86007013
I was saying that you could pick it up again once her arc is done.

>>86006953
I need to start reading periodicals comics. Would the whole three jokers mystery be a good place to start? I think the concept sounds kinda cool

>>86007036
Maybe I will, or I'll even buy the Gotham Girl: Year One arc if I hear it's good. But it's disappointing that it only took five issues to lose me in a Batman relaunch that promised to bring lapsed readers (me) back into the fold.

>>86007065
>the Gotham Girl: Year One arc
It's literally one issue. After that begins the Monster Men crossover event.

>>86007087
Don't know about him, but I want to jump ship from that because there's no way I'm going back to reading Tynion's Detective.

>>86007065
Yeah, I'll admit, after reading Vision, I expected some top notch Batman. Right now it's bland.

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Really guys

>>86007119
I don't hate it, but the first issue had some balls. It moved quick, it had stakes, there was characterization. Everything after that has been about his not-Kryptonian OCs.

>>86006953
Pretty sure there's something else marked on the Calendar.

>>86007135
Nobody thinks he'll be dumb enough to do another damn "Death of Batman" story. Right? Right?

>>86007159
Calender Man?

>>86006914
That's Batman (1940) bro, learn the lingo bro.

>>86006759
I agree with you we've got 3 Batbooks where he's playing 2nd fiddle in all of them, doesn't look like the trend is going to end anytime before soon with Monster Men crossover and Batman being used to set up Justice League vs Suicide Squad

well them's the breaks of reading the continuity heavy - flagship book, Batman has to set the storybeats for the rest of the DCU

>>86007230
I've liked a bunch of Rebirth books because they felt like clean attempts to reintroduce the characters. Batman and 'Tec have stumbled out of the gate.

>>86007230
Doesn't the current JL roster completely annihilate the current SS roster?

>>86006970
Nigger, Grant's Batman was GOAT. At least prior to when they began maintaining a tighter continuity across all bat books.

>>86007334
Cuhrayzee beats them all.

>>86007334
Harley Quinn and Deadshot are the Big Cass and Enzo Amore of the DCU

>>86006802
>her PoC boyfriend
You mean "Totally Not Robin" because even though he literally came from the comic "We Are Robin" and the last time they tried this (Harper/Bluebird aka "Totally Not Batgirl) it went over like a lead balloon Editorial just keeps on keeping on.

Not that this is "Hitch is selling like shit on JLA ... LET'S GIVE HIM JUSTICE LEAGUE!" levels of fuckwittery, but still.

>>86007170

No. She won't even Marry Duke. Shes gone insane. You can't trust any of that narration

>>86007170

he said he's doing a death and a birth. all the great runs have them. so we've seen the birth.

>>86006802
>killing cape franchises

yes please

I'm more worried about Bruce dying again.

>>86007036
>>86007087
King: This whole time you thought you were looking at this story about this character Gotham, this very typical, 'manly man' Superman-type character that you see all the time. And what I wanted to say at the end of this story was, that actually was not what you were looking at this whole time. You were looking at the origin of the person standing next to Gotham.

It wasn't about him at all. It was about her.

And it was the start of the story of this young lady called Gotham Girl, and what a huge role she's going to play in Batman in the future.

So while you thought it was about one thing, it was actually about something else.

And her fate is tied to Duke's fate, is tied to Batman's fate. I wanted to summarize that at the end and tease what's coming.

Nrama: But the marriage… is this definitely something that's coming in the future? Or is the future kind of unknown, with the Watchmen characters able to come in and stir the pot or something?
Credit: David Finch (DC Comics)

King: Oh, man. I'm intimately involved in all that stuff. And all of this, and what you're seeing in Batman here, sort of plays out and sort of tangles up with all that stuff.

It's all meant to feed into this one, huge narrative of the DCU.

And so yeah, we have Batman plotted out for the first 25 issues. And the impact of Gotham Girl will keep laying out until issue #25 and beyond.

Sauce:http://www.newsarama.com/30684-tom-king-on-batman-5-s-surprises-and-revelations-about-the-future.html

>>86008975

Yeah. The death of Gotham Girl and the Birth of Lark.

>>86007170
I wonder how many people will drop the book if he dies again.

>>86009014
How many times is that in a decade?

>>86009036
>You were looking at the origin of the person standing next to Gotham.
Maybe you should have made us care about either of them.

>>86007170
He said on Twitter he wont

>>86009036
>And so yeah, we have Batman plotted out for the first 25 issues. And the impact of Gotham Girl will keep laying out until issue #25 and beyond.
This sounds awful.

>>86009036
The bat family was a mistake.

Delete everyone but Batman and Alfred.

>>86009057

We already know he won't. We have the solicitations for months ahead.

>>86009057
SCAN?

>>86009076
>We already know he won't. We have the solicitations for months ahead.
>>>
>Anonymous 09/04/16(Sun)10:19:36 No.86009082 ▶
Nope Scott Snyder Confirmis he dies again. And Duke is Batman.

>>86008979
Don't you have to wait your delayed Imagay book?

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>>86009112
I don't believe you without a source.

>>86009147
Sauce:http://www.newsarama.com/30684-tom-king-on-batman-5-s-surprises-and-revelations-about-the-future.html

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>>86009068
>This sounds awful.
It gets worse:

So what you're going to see is Gotham Girl, who lost her parents and who lost her beloved brother. And it drives her a little crazy. And she can't deal with it.

And she has this power, where she wants to fight, but the fighting kills her. And she's just being torn apart.

And Batman has to try to save her.

It's a very personal issue about how she deals with her grief, and how Batman himself is an orphan who dealt with his grief.

I wrote it after the death of my grandma, who raised me. So it's me dealing with my grief.

And then issue #9, the second of my arcs starts. The first was "I am Gotham." And #9 starts "I am suicide."

And what happens is Batman is now obsessed with something - you can probably guess what it is, but I'm not going to say. And to save someone, he has to assemble his own Suicide Squad.

>>86006759
Is this the one where Batman was jobbing or was that the other one? It seems like every writer hates Batman nowadays. What happened?

>>86009156
>And she has this power, where she wants to fight, but the fighting kills her
So ... Spawn?

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>>86009156
Fuck this run, I'm out.

>>86009147

Nrama: But Tom, you say something about Batman's death.
Credit: DC Comics

King: Yeah, this comes from Scott Snyder, who's probably going to kill me for sharing this. But he's one of my best friends, and he gave me this great advice.

>>86009177
WHOR DONE RIGHT

>>86009168
>Is this the one where Batman was jobbing
No, very much the opposite: the first issue had Not-Superman and Not-Supergirl saving him from killing himself to land a crashing plane (by, you know, catching it) and then the very next issue they got their super-asses handed to them by Grundy and Batgod literally took him down with one hand (also did his magic ninja disappearing act with them being boggled that they couldn't see where he went even with their superdoopervision).

>>86009187
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Just brough thim back earlier this year and they're already planning to kill him.?

>>86007334
First SS arc is a training arc bro. Their power levels are going to quadruple

>>86009156
>I wrote it after the death of my grandma, who raised me. So it's me dealing with my grief.
I'm getting the feeling this is gonna be less Johns' treating his comic writing like his personal therapy group (Stargirl) and more like, god help me, Jeph Loeb doing the same.

>>86009073
Why do casuals constantly spam this?

>>86009265
"MY GRANDMA IS ALIVE OKAY?! AND SHE'S STRONG 'CAUSE SHE WENT THROUGH SO MUCH, AND SHE GAVE SO MUCH THAT IT KILLED HER, BUT THAT'S WHAT MADE HER A HERO! AND EVERYONE IS GOING TO KNOW IT!"

Could someone give me a quick summary of who the fuck Gotham and GG are? I haven't read Batman in ages

>>86009254
it should be a backdoor introduction to Shade, the Changing Girl as a homage to Shade's brief time with the group

>>86009300
King's shitty OCs
GG wears shorts under her skirt
she's a waste of a character

>>86009300
It's only five issues, you could find it in Win O'Threads easily.

But basically some rich kid and his parents almost got killed in an alley but Batman saved them. So they worked hard and got powered so they could help him save Gotham one day. But the powers are killing them and then they fucked up and their parents died and the guy went loco so the girl had to kill him. Now she's damaged goods like every Bat-family character, but we've never learned much about her or why we should care what she does.

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Maybe an Azrael book would be better.

>>86009345
Deeply. If only they hadn't apparently retconned out Knightfall.

>>86009344
She has tits. All the reasons to care.

>>86009266
>Why do casuals constantly spam this?
They don't. Most casuals have no idea that there have been multiple Robins/Batgirls over the years; but they've seen Robin running around in Teen Titans and Young Justice and like him just fine.

This is just low hanging fruit on the troll tree because saying you should prune the batfamily is saying you want to go back to the Nu52.

>>86008968
Yeah she seems to be completely nuts so she could be making all that shit up in her mind.

>>86009358
Wait, they did?

>>86009363
I liked her legs more, you can't even see her tits.

>>86009344
How did they get powers? What can they do?

>>86009384
They said Jean-Paul has only been active for a matter of months, and no mention of him being Batman.

>>86009392
Not explained, and they can apparently wipe the floor with the Justice League (Gotham did off-panel) if they sacrifice enough life, which is hax and bullshit. Basically, each of them is more powerful than anything in the DCU, and the technology to make more like them is still out there, somewhere, and nobody's batting an eyelid.

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>>86009345
Not written by King.
>>86009358
I honestly don't mind much, because I feel that removing the period of batshit insane JPV would increase his accessibility to writers.

>>86009298
>SHE'S STRONG 'CAUSE SHE WENT THROUGH SO MUCH
Could be much much worse, as these things go. There was this whole pointless elderly side character in KSD's Captain Marvel that made zero sense and then at the end of her run (after the character had *tragically* died of cancer and Cap had scattered her ashes) there was a whole page of KSD dedicating the issue to this friend of her's that had just died after .... a long battle with cancer.

And everyone knows about NuNova literally being named after Jeph's dead son Sam, right?

I mean: it's sad someone died and all; but you just roll your eyes and go, "Oooooh! So *that's* why this pointless character came from nowhere and has been hanging around pointlessly for the whole run! It's an Author Insert's Personal Issues Episode!"

>>86009421
I understand wanting to deal with your pain through your art, but there's this thing Stephen King talks about, where you pour everything you have into the work.

Then, you go back over it and take out the shit that doesn't need to be there.

>>86009300
>quick summary of who the fuck Gotham and GG
A boy and his family almost die in Crime Ally in a really REALLY obvious "homage" to the classic Batman Origin Story (only Bats saves them at the last minute).

So the boy becomes obsessed and spends his youth training and eventually gaining powers in the Far East (again: obvious analog to Bruce).

(He also has a sister although she's just background until he dies 4/5 of the way through.)

Both superkids get Mind Fucked by Psycho Pirate so the girl goes into a fetal position and cries about being scared (thus allowing Duke/Not Robin to comfort her and her to drop some monologue about how this all happened years ago BEFORE THEY WERE MARRIED) and her brother goes full Sentry and murders the fuck out of people (also people murder their parents ... because: Batman and Duke are also Orphans) as well as taking down the entire Justice League himself.

Then Not Supergirl lets us know that their powers are limited like Spawn's are: they have only so much juice and when it's gone they die so they can live a normal Muggle life; or be Heroes for a few years; or Gods for a few hours (that being how the brother took down the JL and then died).

This sets up the amazingly forced drama of "every time I use my powers I'm killing myself" as well as the CW tier relationship wangst (well, not *quite* CW Tier since we don't have a Love Triangle yet ... but I'm pretty sure that Duke had an almost hookup with a hot Asian Not Batgirl in We Are Robin so I expect it'll happen sooner rather than later.)

>>86009536
He died 5/5 of the way through. He dies in the last pages of the fifth issue. Up until then she doesn't do anything but help him, then be worried about what's going on with him.

>>86009367
>she could be making all that shit up in her mind.
"Rebirth"'s Batman writerTom King has already revealed (and explained to Newsarama) a future for his new character Gotham Girl that includes a marriage to Duke Thomas and an eventual death of Batman.

http://www.newsarama.com/30875-tom-king-on-how-gotham-girl-leads-batman-to-bane.html

>>86006970
Plebeian detected.

>>86009561
>He died 5/5 of the way through.
5/6 then, they've still got an epilogue issue coming where she shaves her head (and talks to her dead brother):
>>86009156

I figure when she's one tick on her power clock from dying, she and Duke will get married so she can have last-minute sex before sacrificing herself for the greater good.

Prove me wrong, King.

>>86009674
>Gotham Girl, you were the strongest of us all

Gotham knocking Superman out in three punches is where I almost dropped the book.

Such fucking bullshit.

>>86009222
Their lives are literally drained by using their powers, so it's not that big of a stretch that they got slapped around a bit by Grundy.

>>86010174
>Such fucking bullshit.
I just got caught up (backlog!) and it was whiplash inducing how Batman went from jobbing in the first issue (he seriously can't batman his way out of this and is going to DIE ditching a plane into Gotham Harbor) to being Batgod in the SECOND issue (one arms Grundy after Grundy slaps the Wonder Twins around like they owe him money).

>get paid to write Batman story
>write Supergirl and black Robin story instead
>people like it because you repeat your sentences like an autist
profit??

>>86010174
Wait, I think I missed this. Can someone storytime this? Last I remember, Gotham snapped and is going "if I cant save Gotham, I'll destroy it" on batman

>>86010534
>/co/ turns on King because of an implied interracial relationship

How much of this new found vitriol of King's Batman is coming from the fact that Gotham girl said she married Duke in the future?

>>86010579
I don't care about that. That's the problem. I don't care about either of them. What reason have I been given to want to read about those two, ever?

>>86007013
>she failed
You only saying that because of the marriage thing.

>>86010612
I'm not a white guy you SJW piece of fuck, not everybody who doesn't like the same comic as you is a racist.

>>86010591
>I don't care about that
I think you do, I think the whole reason why we're seeing these types of thread is only because Gotham Girl said she's married to duke in the future.

>>86010620
>I'm not a white guy
Yeah sure whatever /pol/, keep up the false flagging.

>>86010620
I have to ask what do you think of the term PoC? Cause I'm hispanic and all I can think is I'm pretty sure white racists used to use that term in the fifties.

>>86010620
Than give us your argument on why Gotham girl failed as a character.
>she's boring isn't an argument

>>86010591
Because Gotham girl's story is obviously connected to the monster men storyline coming up.

>>86010666
>>she's boring isn't an argument
King pls.she's a very boring person.

>>86010700
>I literally have no argument

>>86010567
>because of an implied interracial relationship
>implied
The last issue literally ends with her talking about how they get married and then come back every year on the anniversary of her brother's death because that's "where it all started."

And then they mention "the death of Batman."

>>86010634
Prove it with an argument, not by implying everyone's prejudiced.

>>86010647
It must be nice to be able to go on an anonymous board and just assume that the people who do things you don't like have an identity you imagine, so it can be something you disapprove of.

>>86010666
Let me answer your question with a question. Can you describe Gotham Girl without saying what she looks like, what kind of costume she wears, or what her job or particular effect on the story was? What makes her an interesting human being?

>>86010718
If you give a fuck that she's gonna marry Duke and that's bad because he's black, then you're an idiot.

If you give a fuck that she's gonna marry Duke and that's bad because he's literally Tim Drake with a worse backstory, then you've got your head on straight.

>>86010718
It's still an implied relationship.

>>86010715
>>I literally have no argument
(she's boring.)

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>>86010579
>How much of this new found vitriol of King's Batman is coming from
Given that they're both "literally who?" characters? Not very much (outside of the usual /pol trolling, I mean).

It's more that most people I know were pretty sick of Robocop Bunny Bats and were ready to get back to some Bruce Bats so having the title being hijacked by a pair of OC Donut Steeles isn't sitting well.

I don't give two shits if they marry (or die in a fire); as long as they do it somewhere ELSE.

>>86010772
I liked Robunny Jim Gordon Bats, but they didn't tell a worthwhile story with him. "Bloom?" The fuck?

>>86010725
>she was Naive kid who thought she could do some good in the world

>>86010746
that's not an argument, that's an opinion.

>>86010791
That's not her, that's an archetype she fits inside of. That's her role in the story.

What is her personality like? What does she like and dislike? What kind of things does she know, what are her hopes and dreams? Describe her to me like she's someone you know and want me to have an idea of before we meet.

>>86010772
>I don't give two shits if they marry (or die in a fire); as long as they do it somewhere ELSE.
Yup.

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>>86010663
>white racists used to use that term in the fifties
Not that anon, but you're thinking of "colored" as in the NAACP (National Association for the Advancement of Colored People).

It got pretty absurd with how fast they were churning out Politically Correct for a while in the late 80's. Image very much related.

They did the same thing with mentally deficient: slow -> retarded (a $50 word for 'slow') -> "special needs" -> challenged -> differently abled

>>86010856
"Colored people," "people of color." It's the same shit, and people try to use it as a catchall for "not white" even though "not white" means many different things and the only time people use it is if they're pissed at Whitey and trying to get others to help them.

>>86010830
>that's not her
Yeah it is, don't move the goalpost just because your little RLM trick didn't work.

>>86010780
>I liked Robunny Jim Gordon Bats
I couldn't get past how fucking retarded it was that skinny middle aged Jim was suddenly 30 years old and JACKED Jim.

>but they didn't tell a worthwhile story with him
Sorta related to the steroid abuse: if they'd played up the fact that he was a dude in a suit it might have been interesting ... but he kept ditching the suit to kick ass and take names. If you're going to do that in a Bat Book then use Nightwing, Robin, Huntress, Batgirl, Batwoman ... it's not like we have a fucking shortage of capes with bat logos running around Gotham.

>>86010891
Come on, anon. How does she see herself versus how others see her? What does the way she talks show about her as a person? Who is she outside of being selfless because her brother is selfless?

>>86010830
She's a sheltered but compassionate rich girl with a hidden foutainhead of bravery and heroism.

>>86009036
>And so yeah, we have Batman plotted out for the first 25 issues. And the impact of Gotham Girl will keep laying out until issue #25 and beyond.
Well, that doesn't sound promising...

>>86010942
>Come on,Anon
Nah this is bullshit, I'm not gonna jump through hoops when you yourself haven't even begun to explain how Gotham girl is a failed character.

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>>86011102
>you have to prove that god/magic/invisible pink unicorns don't exist!
You can't prove a negative, anon.

>>86011234
>I literally have no argument

>>86011284
>I literally have no argument
It's big of you to admit defeat, anon. Although you're still a bit of a twat for taking this long.

I think I would have found it more interesting if Gotham Girl was the more active of the two heroes, e.g. the one who took up leadership, went for the program, who was driven by justice. Instead she comes to follow her brother and I found the multiple issues where she is scared out of her mind by Psycho-Pirate and just keeps repeating that she's scared some mind-numbing shit.

I get there's a narrative where she moves from this passive, follower state to becoming an active, leader character but it's hard to sell me on that from the issues so far. Because we haven't even seen a hint of a secret motivation or unrealised drive that goes there, and even future-her is being defined in terms of her relationship to Duke.

I have not been that impressed by King's Batman, either. Now in general I'm not a huge fan of 'Big' Big Two books like Superman, Batman, etc. so maybe that's to be expected. But there's a few wonky pieces of writing that have thrown me off (just it being ladled on a little thickly in some of the internal narrative, which I expect is par for the course with Batman honestly), and the 'peak' of the book so far was the point at which Gotham had gone mental and there was a confrontation with Hugo Strange and Psycho-Pirate. And from there, what happened was Batman spoke to Waller and General Lane and then just fucked-off, and we forgot about Strange and Psycho-Pirate for now, and we're back to Gotham shit. So it hit a peak and immediately reset to the standard before that peak, leaving me bored.

It's hard to buy into the Gotham/Gotham Girl shit because 1) Batman-Superman comparisons are so fucking tiresome and 2) Who DIDN'T see this going horribly wrong from the word go?

>>86011234
Explaining how Gotham girl is a failed character isn't proving a negative.

>>86011336
>even future her is being defined by her relationship to Duke
You can't tell me this isn't all about getting triggered by interracial pairings when it's so clearly is.

>>86011336
As a second thought, I also think there's something to be said for not elevating Gotham. Like King concentrates on Gotham as the evil, at least in the mind of his characters. It's a cursed place. That's not a take unique to King or unique to Gotham, but when you actually get into the nitty-gritty of horrible decisions made in the most rock-bottom places that define a person forever, I find it more interesting for that not to be attributable to a higher power or place.

I think what I'm trying to say is something like "Gotham is best when it's a place overcome by mundane evil". That's the true horror Gotham for me, the city one step away from a bad one we already know.

>>86011399
"If you don't agree with me, you're a racist!" is also not an argument.

>>86011234
>You can't prove a negative
Yeah you can.

>>86011369
>explaining how a non-character is a non-character
>not the same as proving a negative
Prove it : )

>>86011419
>explaining how a non-character is a non-character
This is something you should be able to prove.

>>86011399
I could not care less, and I'm sorry that you had to get hung up on race there. Gotham Girl and Duke can pop out as many little coffee-colored babies to inherit as many cowls as they like. I don't know how to convince you this isn't a problem for me - I like Bronze Tiger? I like Amanda Waller? Robbie Reyes is my favourite Ghost Rider, Beth Chapel is my favourite Dr. Mid-Nite? You tell me.

I don't like it because it still kind of hints to a passive tie. Like, oh and of course she married Duke because he was there to comfort her when she was terribly scared by this awful mess she'd gotten in by trying to be a hero. Fuck that.

>>86011444
There's fucking nothing about her to talk about! All she's done is follow her brother around, cry, and then kill him!

>>86011419
If you can't prove Gotham girl is a failed character than she isn't a failed character.

>>86011408
>"Gotham is best when it's a place overcome by mundane evil"
I think I agree: I read Batman to get my Street Level Capeshit fix with these whacky Alice In Wonderland/Funhouse Mirror characters. King pounding away at the fact that Batman isn't a Godlike Being is missing the point by so much it's not even in the right timezone.

The right place to do that sorta thing is in a Justice League title where he is, in fact, surrounded by God Like Beings.

>calling women girls is sexist
>redskins is racist
What were you expecting from CIA Cuck?

>>86011462
>follow her brother around, cry and then kill him
That's something to talk about tho.

>>86006759
Thanks for the blog post, OP. Upvoted.

>>86011462
There's a whole fucking conspiracy we can talk about retard.

>>86011462
>and then kill him!
She didn't even do that: he was redlining his power levels (which are/were Lifeforce based) so she just distracted him for the last minute or two while he was burning himself out.

Aaaand then went back to being mostly useless because Psycho Pirate gave her Mind AIDS when he Brain Raped her.

>>86011521
The comic itself has backed off from that conspiracy for now.

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>Another "Death Of Batman" story arc

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>>86011521
>a whole fucking conspiracy

>>86011537
No it hasn't you absolute mong.

>>86011531
I do think the lifeforce based powers are quite neat and a perfect fit for the kind of suicide squad/other shady military supers stuff that goes on in the DC universe.

>>86011551
>not getting excited about the ex-CIA guy doing a conspiracy plot
Shit taste desu senpai.

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>>86011572
>I do think the lifeforce based powers are quite neat
Are you even old enough to post here?

>>86011582
I'm not not agreeing with this - because I think Vision and Omega Men have both had decent conspiracy elements, although I wouldn't say the conspiracy parts were the most interesting - but making decisions like this just a shit way to make them. You should decide on a writer's past form, not on their job experience. It's not something a writer can always bring to their writing.

>>86011614
Yeah but Tom King can as his past work shows.

>>86007388
Hey Smark,
BC&EA are the second best tag team they've got. Who would you rather see getting a push? The fucking Usos?

>>86011625
Again, I don't think a conspiracy has been the strongest part of anything he's written to date.

>>86011607
Yes? I literally don't see how Spawn is relevant to something being written as a black ops superpower program within the DC universe. I'm not saying I think this is the first time this has ever been done.

>>86011640
Because of your shit taste.

>>86011582
>ex-CIA guy
You know that the dude signed up post 9/11 and helped train civilian police, right? It's like saying someone who served as a private in the infantry is somehow, based on his service, going to churn out a highly detailed naval battle during the Age of Sail. I'm not saying that can't happen; but it will have fuck-all to do with his time in uniform.

>>86011659
So do you think the conspiracy is the strongest written element in Omega Men, Vision, Grayson or Sheriff of Babylon?

>>86011665
Plus Grayson proved he has no idea how some basic military shit works, like traveling through the desert in a survival situation.

>>86011625
>as his past work shows
By which, of course, you mean: his past work on other comicbooks than the current run on Batman?

Because he did more in the first two issues of Vision than he's done in 5 issues of Batman.

>>86011665
He still has a better understanding of how that shit would actually go down than a majority of writers.

Is there something about Batman that brings mediocrity out of even the most promising writer?
>>86009156
Fuck Gotham Girl, give me more Colonel Blimp.

>>86011572
They're a bit of a weak noodle. Because unless you're shoving a "life force timer" at the front of every issue, she's living on Comic Book Life Force, which is infinite.

What really stank about this run was how much the writer just had it in for Gotham as a character. Nothing could be resolved to a satisfactory manner. And, if anything, Gotham had the right idea: Burn the city to the ground, start over. The place is poison.

>>86011712
It's just another dramatic trigger you can pull. I agree for any significant character it is essentially infinite time, but I find it neat as a concept that exists and I can easily imagine a good arc with a character like this in say the Suicide Squad that ends in their death from it.

>>86011712
Also, Batman broke his no-kill rule. He just didn't have to do the deed himself.

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>>86011697
>Is there something about Batman that brings mediocrity out of even the most promising writer?
DC Editorial?

>>86011697
>Fuck Gotham Girl, give me more Colonel Blimp.
RIGHT???

>>86010579
Boy I love this brave new future where nothing can be criticized without it being racist.

The problem is that Duke and Gotham Girl are both boring and we were promised a fucking Batman run, not a Gotham Girl run for TWENTY FIVE ISSUES.

>>86011786
The only reason I would care about Gotham Girl attacking Colonel Blimp is if he has the power to inflate her boobies like blimps. But that's just a Golden Girl idea.

... replacing Gotham Girl with Golden Girl would be a better comic.

>>86011483
Both of these things are true.
>CIA Cuck
Oh. You're one of those.

>>86009073
Do you even read comics?
Gordon, Grayson, Alfred, Ace...
Batman was never alone.

>>86011789
>not a Gotham Girl run for TWENTY FIVE ISSUES
It's actually worse than that: if you read the interviews he said they've got the issues plotted out that far but she's supposed to be around for YEARS and it's supposed to affect the WHOLE DCU.

>>86011336
I think part of it is, yeah, he thought his big surprise was that Gotham Girl was the important one when all that did was waste five whole issues that could've been spent developing her. Why not combine the characters, skip the death, and have the league just knock her out of the rampage and have the Bat-senpai have to pick up the pieces and try to rehabilitate her? Same basic story, but Gotham Girl gets to be an active participant from the beginning instead of what was ultimately a weak twist.

>>86011871
He probably thought Batman fighting a Superman look-alike was a stronger image. Even though he doesn't look that much like Superman and they didn't really go toe to toe.

>>86011871
They could also just both be active characters

>>86011463
She isn't a failed character, she isn't anything yet. She is a pitch that has not been sold. The issue here is people who were okay with an opening arc about her are now worried that she's hijacking King's entire run, and in the five issues we've seen of her has not shown anything to deserve that.

>>86011893
She's not tho, those are entirely unfounded fears. We know what King has in plans and it's not replacing Batman with Gotham girl so I don't know why you guys are so fucking retarded but oh my god you guys are the dumbest fucking idiots.

>>86011833
Yeah but that's just writer talk. Everyone wants their character to make an impact for years.

I can totally see a pet character lasting a whole run though, since we just had that with Duke and Harper.

>>86011889
Why have two when you only need one, is my point. You only have so much room to make a pitch especially for "Superpowered character in gotham that Batman conflicts with.". I think the use of Hugo Strange and Psycho Pirate was strong, but I feel like having two of them might have worked visually but ultimately left us with the dead one characterized and the living one a sad shaved head who'll marry Robin one day, you'll see.

>>86011967
I don't really object to burning one new character for narrative impact on the other, but yes I basically agree entirely. That is totally how I've felt about the run so far.

>>86011665
How does that explain his I'VE SEEN SOME SHIT look he has in interviews?

>>86011764
Is this based on a real writer? What did this Dwayne say to get him fired

>>86011967
>you only need one
But that's entirely wrong.

>>86011942
Look we could all be reaching and it'll turn out Gotham Girl is awesome. King's also promising an actual Batman and Catwoman story that's about Bruce and Selena and its been....FOREVER since we had one of those, so maybe people are jumping the gun.

But based on the run so far and the Newsarama interview, people are worried she'll become another Harper who gets shoved in people's faces "WHY WON'T YOU BUY HER.". You've already got that guy upthread insisting anyone who wasn't into her opening arc is just racist because of the marrying Duke thing, so people are trying to establish REAL QUICK that its an issue of writing and just not getting into what's been given to us for five issues. King still has to sell people on the character.

>>86012012
>Is this based on a real writer?
Yup.
>What did this Dwayne say to get him fired
Broke kayfabe.
http://comicsalliance.com/dwayne-mcduffie-fired-from-jla-for-saying-too-much/

>>86011942
I find the way you're posting really tiresome because everyone else is talking about how they feel/what they think and why they feel/think that, and you just keep posting 'no ur wrong tho'. I'm assuming you just want to piss people off.

>>86012012
Vented a little about getting the shaft because of the DC event train.

Ironically he'd probably have done real well in the New 52 environment.

>>86012075
It's just that what you people are thinking and feeling is retarded. It's all very short-sighted bullshit knee-jerk reactions.

>>86011967
>I feel like having two of them might have worked visually but ultimately left us with the dead one characterized and the living one a sad shaved head who'll marry Robin one day, you'll see.

Based on the interviews, that was the point. Misdirection. She trusted in her brother and we saw his heroes journey but he got mindfucked by Psycho Pirate and now he's dead and she's scared and alone. This upcoming issue is supposed to give her the characterization she couldn't have gotten in the beginning.

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>you were born in time to witness Kingfags' hopes crushed and their tears fill a river as they, years from now, try to rationalise this whole ordeal

>>86012121
That is again 'no ur wrong tho'. Make your own case, and you might actually convince people.

>>86012126
Yes, and like I said at the fucking BEGINNING of this thread I think that was a bad call because this isn't 1986 and we've all seen "Woah, the big strong guy got shown up....by a girl?!?!?" before. King's big surprise was not that surprising. That was my whole fucking point.

>>86011826
>Both of these things are true.
Wrong on both counts. No one says calling men boys is sexist and only 10% of native Americans consider the Redskins racist.

>>86012071
>Broke kayfabe.
"Actually, my intention was to keep Red Tornado in the computer for quite a while (both to keep him off stage for a bit, and to set up another storyline I had notions of exploring), but DC needed him back in his body immediately for a mini-series. So, I planned the Amazo rematch as a B-plot in another story, unfortunately, that story had to be dropped because of something else that was planned in another title. So I pushed up the Vixen arc to take that place, but as I was writing it, I found out certain things about Final Crisis that forced me to cut the Vixen Arc short. Things happen."

Jesus.

>>86011665
>You know that the dude signed up post 9/11 and helped train civilian police, right?
SAUCE or GTFO.

http://io9.gizmodo.com/one-of-comics-best-new-writers-talks-about-what-it-s-l-1782297630
>I thought I would be good at CIA stuff because I was good with information, not at least because I had spent my life putting the continuity of comic books together. I thought, “Oh, that’s kind of similar.”
>I went and became an Operations Officer, which is a guy who recruits people to penetrate terrorist networks overseas.

https://www.cia.gov/offices-of-cia/clandestine-service/careers/careers-operations-officer.html
>Operations Officers (OO) are certified Core Collectors who collect human intelligence of concern to the U.S. President, policymakers, and military by recruiting and handling clandestine human sources in a secure manner.
>OOs clandestinely spot, assess, develop, recruit and handle human sources with access to vital intelligence. This human intelligence plays a critical role in developing and implementing U.S. foreign and national security policy and in protecting western interests. OOs have sound judgment, integrity, strong interpersonal skills and assessment abilities to acquire high-value intelligence from human sources. OOs deal with fast-moving, ambiguous, and unstructured situations by combining their "people and street smarts" with subject matter expertise and knowledge of foreign languages, world travel, and cultures. OOs serve the bulk of their careers overseas.

>>86012052
There is an ocean of difference between Gotham Girl and Harper Row like you cannot honestly compare the two but you're still gonna cause this board is gull of dumb fucks who wouldn't know good writing if it bit them on the dick.

>>86012178
Your point, like yourself, is fucking retarded.
>Woah, the big strong guy got shown up....by a girl?!?!?
Is that seriously all you got from that? Christ.

urg...

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>>86012071
>>86012184
Christ, what a nightmare. Fucking big two

>>86012178
>this isn't 1986 and we've all seen "Woah, the big strong guy got shown up....by a girl?!?!?"
That's really what you took away from this arc?
That's what you took away from my post?
Even though I literally said "Misdirection... now he's dead and she's scared and alone"?
Even though there's been no focus whatsoever on the OMG girl-beats-boy angle you're talking about?

Nevermind. I hope you find a book that's more your speed or get help or something.

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>>86012212
>>86012260
>>86012472
You seem upset, senpai.

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>>86012551
>>86012178

>CIA writes Bane story
MEME
MAGIC

>>86011826
I don't think Gordon and Ace are the bat-family necessarily. I see the importance of Robin, but it's not worth it IMO.

>>86011336
>I have not been that impressed by King's Batman, either. Now in general I'm not a huge fan of 'Big' Big Two books like Superman, Batman, etc. so maybe that's to be expected.

It's not you, a lot are feeling the same way. I wonder if most of the praise comes from the fact that Snyder is simply off the book and people are just hopeful of King.

>>86009073
The problem is that extraneous Bat family members are like teen mutants at this point. Every writer comes in and wants to leave their mark so they create a character or group of characters that they feel are going to be great additions and long contributing members to the Bat family and... they're not. The characters are usually poorly received, don't really fit and are shoved down peoples' throats so they're rejected, fade into the background and then are brought back as crossover or event fodder years later.

You know how many Bat family characters created in the last... lets say 30 years have lasted? As far as I can think, five: Tim Drake, Stephanie Brown, Helena Bertinelli, Cassandra Cain and Kate Kane. Except they worked because they had their own books (or were large supporting characters in another character's solo book in Steph's case) where the characters could be fleshed out on their own away from Batman meaning when they show up in Batman comics people give a shit because they've been reading the characters' own adventures, know they can handle shit and are invested in them.

Just creating the character and shoving them into the book or a single miniseries doesn't do anything, you have to work to get the reader invested in them which you can't do in the main Batman books because people read those books wanting Batman. So your super special OC doesn't get time to develop because they're playing second fiddle to Batman or fans get pissed because Batman is playing second fiddle to them in his own books.

>>86015228
>I wonder if most of the praise comes from the fact that Snyder is simply off the book
That and quite a few people were really excited by Omega Men and Vision (I know I was).

The same thing happened with Soule back when he took over Swamp Thing and Thunderbolts (both books were soooo much better with him); but then he signed that exclusive Marvel deal and started shitting out things like Inhumans and Death of Wolverine.

I'm dropping Batman as a floppy (I'll pick it back up in trades if I hear really good things) because: I've still got Nightwing, All Star, Batgirl, Birds of Prey, Titans, and 'Tec (with Super Sons and Teen Titans forthcoming) to get my Batshit fix so it's just not that much of a loss.

>>86015228

or people really like it

>>86015351
Spoken like a true casual.

>>86006975
Did we ever find out if Lazerbot is genuinely autistic or it's all just fake?

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>>86015351
>So your super special OC doesn't get time to develop because they're playing second fiddle to Batman or fans get pissed because Batman is playing second fiddle to them in his own books.
It also helps if said OC Snowflake brings something new to the table. Having a flying barbie doll orphan in a cheerleader outfit who can lift cars and bounce bullets is not only completely out of place in a Super Normal paradigm like Gotham; but it's retreading Supergirl ( who already has her own tv show and Rebirth solo series ).

>>86015768
DUDE JUST ADD A HUNDRED MORE BAT CHARACTERS

WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG?

>>86015825
HOW MANY BOY/GIRL GENIUSES WITH TRAGIC STORIES WILL THEY ADD TO THE BATFAMILY THIS YEAR?

>>86015809
>Gotham
>super normal paradigm
I know /co/ doesn't read comics but fucking c'mon.

>>86015886
>super normal paradigm
Batman, Nightwing, Batgirl (Babs, Cass, Seph), Huntress, Batwoman, Manhunter, Red Hood, and any Robin (official or We Are Robin gang) ... all super normals.

Outside of Batmight who's wearing a bat logo and got powers? Current Clayface?

>>86016000
Manhunter is a low key meta
Filthy casual

>>86006759
>/co/ said this will be a good thing because based King wrote Vision
>We're getting this shit for the good part of the year and next.
This is why i dont listen to you guys. Told you Gotham Girl was a mistake and hes following Scott Synder dream of filling Batman with OCs.

He even took it a step forward and had the OCs get married. So even if she fails in this, she'll be connected by marriage to Duke.

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>>86016076
>Manhunter is a low key meta
Is she? My bad, I thought she just had the gloves and the staff.

>>86016119
>this why I don't listen to you guys
We don't listen to you either.

>>86016138
I never told you too

>>86016119
Yeah I love how the next arc is just filled to the brim with OCs like Bane, Catwoman, Bronze Tiger. Can't believe the audacity.

>>86015849
I've got it! How about we make a mentally deficient boy with a happy backstory? That'll throw them for a loop! Call him "Sparrow Lad."

>>86016000
Look at Gotham as a whole dipshit.
>Ragman
>Undead Assassins
>Poison ivy
>Man-Bat
>Mr.Freeze
>Solomon grundy

>>86016119
>Scott Synder dream of filling Batman with OCs
Did any of those actually stick? Other than Court of Owls I can't think of a single thing that Synder did that will be carried over. Unless you can blame him for Duke (but I thought he was from WaR) and even then I highly highly doubt diversity hire robin will last any longer than Bluebird did.

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>>86016138
Is this really the best comeback you could come up with, Anon?

>>86016214
Ur mum lol

>>86016000
>who's wearing a bat logo and got powers?
>>86016200
>literally no one
Now how hard was that to admit?

>>86016209
Duke and harper

The one of the 3 Jokers is his DOTF/Endgame Joker

>>86016252
Well if you're counting Manhunter as part of that, then obviously Manhunter.

>>86016135
Her leg isn't quite right there, huh.

>>86016209
They are pushing BlueBird in other books and she was pushed heavily in B&RE. And shes now coonected to Cassandra's backstory due to blue shit.
>>86016158
I exaggerated a bit but honestly i dont see a point with Gotham Girl. And King's "oh this is her story not her brother" answer makes no sense and her brother was way more interesting.

>>86016227
Man-Bat is part of the Batfamily.

>>86016254
>Duke and harper
Didn't they already put Harper on a bus? I mean *literally* put her on a bus to college?

Not much point in a blue haired computer hacker when you've got a red haired computer hacker in her own solo (and a team book).

Actually Tim's getting his hack on over in 'Tec as well. Gotham's lousy with script kiddies these days.

>>86016327
Meant in reply>>86016252

>>86016331
She's coming back in the next Tec arc, Duke is the main book even if he's doing nothing, and Snyder is writing a Duke back up for ASB

>>86016252
You said Gotham was a super normal paradigm, not Batman and friends.

>>86016310
>They are pushing BlueBird in other books
Which? I'm not being snarky honestly curious.

>she was pushed heavily in B&RE.
I didn't even make it halfway before I dropped that one. I managed to suffer through the whole double threat of Batman Eternal AND Futures End and that soured me on the whole weekly shtick. I know Cass whacked her dad and took the name Orphan but other than that and some of the "Mother makes perfect kids/people to order" stuff at the start of the run I'm out of the loop with that one.

>>86016155
>too

>>86007119
Vision was a 12 issue series from the beginning. Omega Men was never going to last more than 12 either.

We're fucking five issues into what's surely going to be at least a two year run, which right there is 48 issues.

Grant Morrison wrote one of the most acclaimed Batman runs in history but it's not like it was an instant masterpiece. The first few sequence was "Batman" shooting Joker, Batman fighting a bunch of Men-Bats in a pop-art museum, and then revealing Batman had a son. Not making you like the son, just that he had one. Most people wouldn't go on to even like Damian until B&R was halfway over.

Give it some fucking time, jesus christ. You people hype yourselves up thinking the first issue is going to shatter your mind and change everything you know about Batman or some shit. If you really just can't take having to wait more than one issue for something to deliver on all its plans, ok, fuck off because nobody cares about your mongoloidal brain.

>>86007334
The roster of SS vs JLI included Deadshot, Captain Boomerang and Bronze Tiger vs Martian Manhunter, Green Lantern and Batman.

Power levels do not and never will matter.

>>86017183
Yeah those teams are ridiculously imbalanced. What sort of nonsense plot device did they use to beat Captain Boomerang?

>>86017132
>Omega Men was never going to last more than 12 either.
Shit, if we didn't all raise a stink it would have been canceled after issue 4.

>>86019005
Issue 7

>>86016076
No she wasn't, her powers were from her equipment

>>86019088
Kate has enhanced strength from her Grandfather.

>>86016372
Christ, pls no harper again

>>86019405
Nope. Power only develops in the male line.

>>86017183
m8 have you actually read the issues you're talking about? There's barely even a fight.

>>86016175
garth ennis pls go

>>86015804
Apparently, people who have seen him stream his art claim he has a lot of artistic talent, and puts a lot of work into making them look like shit.

>>86007334
SS is adding Killer Frost who is Jojo tier hax. She's also supposed to be the main character of the arc.