Why can't cartoons have high quality OPs like with anim

>>85962259
1) budget
2) advertising time, just look at the 90s X-Men intro vs the YJ S1 and S2 intros. S2 didn't even have a proper one.

>>85962259
They can. When they air in Japan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ODtsNMNJXk

Animation isn't really taken seriously in the west. It's seen as kids advertisement

>>85962305
>Budget
most animes do not even have budgets to work with or run out of it really quick yet they still can make anime. Most cartoons have enough budget to run for a long time. I think it has more to do with mindset/culture of the creators and people working on it.

>>85962380
>most animes do not even have budgets to work with or run out of it really quick
That's daft, anime productions don't work with pennies or just suddenly find themselves short of cash. They just operate on less monetary and time resources compared to western cartoons.

>>85962259

you are too young or just a pleb:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgjox-wca-A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6X4wETFqHcM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwGgwZSgZAI

>>85962305
Without going too far, compare BATB intro with YJ's or GL:TAS'. Or Spectacular Spider-Man's with Ultimate's.

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>>85962380
>>85962259
The OPs by themselves have a different ideal in Japan and the US. Most anime will have some artist collaboration to promote someone and in reverse the artist will help promote the animation. This doesn´t happen in the west.

There is also a big difference of audience. When your public is younger children, you will have original songs on the JP side. But most of the time it will be some artist trying to promote his latest material.

Because most anime are made with shit-tier budgets, so they invest a lot of it into the OP because they recycle that footage in every episode. The logic being that they get 1:30 minutes of animation used 12 times, so it's nearly an entire episode's worth of animation.

>>85962459
Isn´t Thundercats partially made in Japan?

>>85962533

yeah but's i cartoon, like tiny-toon and BTAS

>>85962259
Because, for the most part, both serve different purposes. Both serve the purpose of immediately grabbing the viewer's interest. A lot of anime OPs also serve as visual synopses for the series/arc as well as vehicles for popular musicians. A lot of Japanese music artists recognized that attaching themselves to anime increased their chances of popularity in the West. And then there's advertising, which heavily is a big reason why Western shows have such short openings. Shorter opening means more advertising and more money. Gumball's opening is one of the best being aired right now and it's regularly cut in order to facilitate more ads.

Also, comparing Mob Psycho 100 to Adventure Time doesn't work considering the production staff for MP100 is comprised of some of the best in the industry.

>>85962259
>>85962259
Adverts.

By trimming down a good minute, that is roughly 3 commercials that could be playing.

This leads to saving literally tens of thousands of dollars a year

>>85962259
Because anime OPs are typically glorified music videos.

>>85962259
They'd rather either only have a 30-second musical intro with original footage (rare these days, I think...most cartoons nowadays too ugly design-wise for me to even TRY to watch), or show scenes from episodes with some lame original song in the background.

Tangentially related, Mob Psycho 100 is fucking great, everyone should watch it.

>>85962952
Everybody listen to this anon

>>85962468
Even though I prefer YJ and GL:TAS, Beware the Batman surprisingly has a better intro than most of them. Still too short, though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTQ3CHBA9TA

Aren't a lot of these made to promote the artist's single?
Shit imagine if we lived in a world where we got minute snippets of Queen or some shit as out intros.

>>85962952
I'd also suggest reading it

>>85962340
>jam project
Holy shit

>>85963329
When Charmed lost the rights to it's theme song they had to change it to an instrumental (granted it's not /co/), maybe there's licensing involved studios would rather avoid in the long term.

>>85962259
Its because in anime the viewer is intelligent enought to get what the themes and plot of the show is from the imagery and symbology

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEE6oOGYNW0

you know what this show is like from the feeling of the opening, now take a typical western cartoon opening

They have to write a song that literally explains the plot to you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CwMcDXiet4


Because cartoons are for kids the intro is all about exposition dumping for the idiots that watch them

When cartoons finally become mature they will have good intros

We don't care about cool things, that's why OP. I think that's why themes like Tiny Toons and Ducktales stuck in our memory, those songs were catchy and had slightly more content than saying the name of the cartoon over and over or a 20 second loop of a melody or some shit

>>85962459
The MiB theme is still top shelf. Love that shit

>>85963585
Look man I know it's easy to bait around here, but can you tone down the fake autism?

Why are intros changed out for new ones all the time in anime anyway? Every 20 or so episodes there will be a totally new intro, even mid season.

Anime OPs have a secondary goal of promoting a song as well as hyping a show so there is a different priority level

Also, the whole lack of opening in Western cartoons is starting to die out as well

>>85963930
Opportunity to sell new music and update visuals.

Didn't Star Vs the Forces of Evil and Gravity Falls have some higher quality intros?

>>85962259
It's cheaper and more isn't always better.

>>85964856
>and more isn't always better
that doesn't really apply to this.

>>85962380
America has outlawed slavery

>>85962340
this

why do the japs do everything better?

>>85963886
fake?

Most cartoons are aimed at kids that haven't even gone through puberty. Those kids don't give a shit about OPs an EDs so it'd be a waste of money to make a decent one.

Also MP100 GOAT AOTY

>>85965206
nazi master race?

Because in the west animators are not OK with slaving themselves over so little money.

In fact there's an anime that points this out.

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>>85963585
>compares one of the two or three anime of the 40 in it's season that isn't shit to a cartoon literally made for kids under 6 years old

Holy shit.
Look man, I love anime but you're either extremely stupid or a retarded weeb

>>85965371
>west animators
literally only exist in freelancing or big budget movies. When a cartoon is made in the west, all the animation is done in some asian country. Americans only do the writing, storyboard and character design.

>>85962340
You didn't even post the best one, which was sung by a slutty club singer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ly1svTx-xoA

>>85965701
Japan at one point animated most of Americas cartoons. Now it's South Korea I believe.
If weebs want to complain about western cartoons be in animated like shit just remind them that half those shows were and are animated by Japs.
Anime only looks good to some because of some shading here and there. They actively cut corners and when you notice it, it looks like shit

>>85963491
This can be an issue. Part of the reason the western releases of Zeta Gundam use the OST during the op and ed is due to a license cock up at Sunrise. That said these days it's less of an issue

>>85962259
Cause theyre pointless?
Theyre just showy little sequences for kids to fawn over, they rarely if ever add anything to the story.

>>85966014
so? they add a sense of style to the series.

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>>85962259
Because these big publishing companies that own the rights to the original manga also own music rights. So they use an anime, which is nothing more then a commercial for the manga, as a chance to sell a single to an artist that they own as well. It's all just cross promotion. Also the fact that Chinese cartoons aren't viewed as strictly kiddy shit by everyone and that everyone reads manga, not just kids.

At least that's my theory

>>85966340

Yeah I thought a good OP added to the show. When I was younger and watched shows on Toonami, I loved watching the openings, I don't know how you can watch Outlaw Star's OP and not get a little hype.

Sure it doesn't add much to actual content of the show but it's part of the overall presentation. And presentation counts.

>>85962516
Have you seen anime since the 70's

>>85966014
They look neat and showcase all kinds of things like symbolizing characters and their relationships or sometimes foreshadow the plot and you get to see how as you go along. Or sometimes it's just for fun visuals, lighten up anon.

>>85962259
Because American TV doesn't have the time for long cool intros. They want to stuff more commercials in.

Also because japanese animators are willing to work for a pittance, so with the budget they have they can crank out more interesting animation.

It's not just the openings, most of the endings are great too

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DDtcsu1JEs

I wish they could go back to making good openings again at least

>>85962259
so you're saying you want something like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6KhrPS_16M

>>85966640
i've downloaded one episode just so i can watch this ed from time to time

>>85966640
Still one of my favorite EDs. It just makes me smile and want to dance.

Can we just post OP's we like now

https://youtu.be/z8FuA_eDVhY

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>>85962259
>mob

ugh

>>85966847
I'm sorry for your shit taste anon

>>85963329
This. It's to promote the artist. So if they get to collaborate with a popular one, the opening/ending will have a better budget.

It's not like that in the US. AT didn't have a budget for a cool opening song when it started, but I like that they had such a simple but catchy OP instead.

>>85962259
https://youtu.be/uhMtwvHelh0

>>85962459
I think what OP means is that good openings are a lost art in the west. All 3 of those are over 10 years old. It's very rare we get much of anything for a theme these days.

>>85963585
I was like you back when I was 13. Stop being a weeb. Whilst they're better most openings for anime basically show you the plot and a lot of them are quite shallow.

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>>85965259
>>85963886
>>85963585
> anon admits he has autism
Kek. Although you're more likely baiting hard.

>>85966783
If you're going to be posting ops from that late in the show you should do stage 5
https://youtu.be/AgWLQviwL1s

>>85966014
Nah i like them and i found some good japanese music thanks to those openings

>>85966689
>that shit sound quality

I'm surprised and please that this thread isn't as /a/ vs /co/ as I thought but I gotta say I miss theme songs in general. They're like the attract mode in arcade games; a great way to attract viewers and build hype.

I mean even if you hate vidya something like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtqwMz2ITcc is going to get your quarter eventually.

>>85966689
Case in point I might have given AT a chance if it had an opening like this. 20 seconds culminating with a fist bump and ukelele fails to excite.

>>85963692
>those songs were catchy and had slightly more content than saying the name of the cartoon over and over

IT'S

>>85964196
Yeah both of those shows have great intros

>>85963585
I kinda agree with you I just don't know if "intelligent" is the right word.


Although just look at One Piece.

Japan- real song

American dub- Song literally used to explain the characters and their "jobs" as if the show won't do that already

>>85962259
You fucking what mate?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRVRYb98brQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=375ENQbru8s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etPQJvM8IvI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c__dFYbErxg

I should slap you for subjecting my ears to that shitty techno-rock shit.

>>85967586
>techno-rock shit
kill yourself

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>>85967586
>>85962459
>examples from about 20 years ago

Face it, you old farts. It's not the 90s anymore.

>>85962259

we don't have theme songs in burgerland anymore because they cut too much into commercial time

I like when Japan makes some pretty unique OPs that could be really great music videos on their own
https://youtu.be/KKlrPon5KbU

>>85966619
>>85967695

This is true only in America. Out of the top of my head, Gumball has a shorter intro in the US than in the UK because of this. I think other shows have the same problem.

And like other anon's have pointed out, anime also takes advantage of selling the music. Long intros are also a way to shorten the episodes.

>>85962259


western can: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QFwo57WKwg

they simply do no want

>>85967611
>1990 was 100 years ago
:(

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>>85966875
>liking pretentious bullshit disguised as a ironic comedy

no anon I'm about u, and i hope u you find a better way

>>85968181
>liking pretentious bullshit disguised as a ironic comedy
What did he mean by this?

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>>85968181

I can see why one would think that of OPM but Mob? There's nothing ironic about it.

>>85968221
It means he's a comfyfag.

>>85968221
is the same formula as OPM

silly main character is actually dam strong but still silly as fuck

just like dragon ball or arale

but the show also try to be a deep satirical comedy about live and society.

>>85962259
I haven't given a shit about OPs since I was a teenager.

How old are you? It's stock animation that gets played every single episode.

A godlike OP won't save a show from garbage writing, bad art, etc.

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>>85968478
>but the show also try to be a deep satirical comedy about live and society.
Heaven forbid any work of fiction isn't 100% lighthearted, "fun" comedic adventures all the time.

>>85968538
>but the show also try to be a deep satirical comedy about live and society. but also fail at it

fixed

>>85968582
Better that it actually tries to, instead of continuing this absurd trend of saturating all storylines with frivolous, comedic cores with SOME action/drama/characterization on top that the MCU started.

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>>85968538
you know what anon, let's agree to disagree

>>85968649
yeah cus mob and opm has something to do with mcu, this shit about marvel has become a buzzword already

>>85968478
>is the same formula as OPM

At first glance maybe

>silly main character is actually dam strong but still silly as fuck

Mob is not silly, Reigen is. He is at worst naive, but not silly like Saitama

>just like dragon ball or arale
Maybe is close to Arale but neither of Akira Toriyama's works were as you put it

>also try to be a deep satirical comedy about live and society.

Not at all. Is a story about growing up, it's even spelled out in one of the episodes.

I know, I took the bait but this is the only anime I actually follow now a days and I'm tired.

>>85962259
>Why can't cartoons have high quality OPs like with anime?
So you want Nicki Minaj to do an intro for some cartoon? Because that's what Anime OPs are; songs performed by Nip pop idols.

>>85968821
>pop idols
are you high?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCq4-r9annU

>>85968795
go home dennialfag

here is the path: >>>/a/

>>85968181
go back to watching Lucky Star, ya pinko commie weeboo

>>85968924
back to Tumblr with you!

>>85968980
>N-No you!

>>85968924

I don't like anime, but I'm enjoying MP100 a lot. I understand if you don't like it, but don't pull buzzwords out of your arse just for the sake of it. It's not ironic and is not 2deep4u

>>85968980
not me but I have to agree if opposing opinions affect you that much.

>>85968939
Is lucky star even popular anymore? I remember back in 2007 when every subgroup was subbing it.

>>85962380
>most animes do not even have budgets to work with or run out of it really quick yet they still can make anime.

underpaying animators =/= no budget senpai

>>85965908

this desu
anime saves their budget to do occasional flashy action sequences more often than the west but overall people seem to confuse realistic-based anatomy and quick shading with good animation. the average anime scene isn't astronomically better than an episode of, like, rugrats

>>85969292
What if it something like Aria? Those kinda shows dont have fight so can they have sakuga too?

>>85968478
>this is a real person

>>85964196
Both composed by the same person too lol

>>85962259
We have threads like this every fucking day. It all comes down to the fact that animation is taken more seriously in Japan. There is literally no other reason.

>>85967978
That's not working on cartooning budget though, that's just animation in general.

>>85969065
its the quintessential moeshit everyone pulls out when they want to talk down to someone

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>>85969605
>taken more seriously in Japan

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>>85969687
Lucky star was nearly a decade ago.
It's all about NNB and Gochuumon and such now.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O7DsbWvQ5w

>>85962259
It's too pretentious and cringey for a cartoon. Just look at NuPPG's OP.

>>85962259

long intro, long outro, long stock scene in every single ep of a transformation and so on.

it's filler, maybe it's good filler to you, but it's whole reason for existing is filler, in the US market you fill with commercials.

>>85969753
Not him, but it definitely is. Outside of movies, no one's going to actually put effort into actually story boarding, or telling the korean animators what to do right.

You don't see Rebecca Sucrose studying the movements of lions when doing her shit show. Everything just ends up a wibbly mess of shapes and noodles.

>>85969803
Legends never die

>>85968939
>>85969687
>>85969803
>>85969065
Lucky Start got M.o.v.e to do an original song for their Initial D parody so you can all go eat it.
Truly eurokinobeat

>>85963585
That's literally what happened to Danny Phantom's opening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5DvZ18vHT8

>>85969827
Yes, everything you saw in early Dragon Ball Super was done with serious intent.

>>85970014
Oh sure theres hot garbage that's always made for money, but at least there's something on the other side.

We couldn't even get more than a pilot for The Amazing Screw-On Head so it's just down to flash and noodles until the next animated movie comes out.

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>>85962259
>Why can't cartoons have high quality OPs like with anime?
Serious question, who honestly gives a shit? Does anyone here actually see a cartoon's couple second opening and legitimately think "Man, why can't cartoon have Ops like my Japanese animes?"

>>85962486
Anime name?

>>85970202
>Does anyone here actually see a cartoon's couple second opening and legitimately think "Man, why can't cartoon have Ops like my Japanese animes?"
Isn't that what this thread is about?
People have complained about the lack of openings for like the past 4 years.

>>85962259
Not even the best OP of the season.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYMN7_0N8Fk

>>85970202
While I would much rather watch a good OP then the 10 to 30 second opening we get most anime OPs are boring visuals with really bad music that I just skip over anyway

>>85970305
No, I know people want actual openings for there cartoons. Never in my entire life have I ever wished that cartoon openings could be more like anime openings, so I genuinely can't understand the point of this thread.

>>85970305
>>85970202
All those kickass openings you remember from the 80s and 90s were followed by twenty-odd minutes of poorly animated, 8-frames-per-second garbage because that's where all the budget went in their half-hour toy commercials. That eventually stopped, for the most part. Anime never stopping being toy commercials.

>>85970502
All you're imagining is probably moeshit, probably ignoring lots of the amazing openings, even posted in this thread.

>>85970496
>most anime OPs are boring visuals with really bad music that I just skip over anyway
Exactly. I have seen so many anime OPs that are so generic and cliche that it baffles me that people want more of them or for western animation to take ideas from them.

>>85970575
With how many series you have for one season it's no wonder there are many shitty ones.
And still there are also many great examples.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZenmeRytEM

>>85970575
It's still better than not having any intro at all.
Just compare the intros for Spectacular Spider-man and Ultimate Spider-man.
The lack of intros for shows is just getting obnoxious at this point.

>>85970496
>>85970502
>>85970575
What kind of shit anime are you watching?

Only anime who's OP I can probably complain in recent time i've seen is New Game!

>>85967291
to be fair One Piece is a shonen series for like 14 year olds right? teenagers mostly.

4Kids had One Piece at the time, and well, the name alone shows exactly what they were thinking. which is why Toonami/or Adult Swim is using I guess a more "grown up" for lack of better word, dub with real songs.

Or maybe im full of shit, iunno.

>>85967603
No u.

>>85962259

Because western cartoons rarely sell CDs

I mean I totally dig anime ops but that's what they're there for. To make you want to buy a CD.

Why the fuck would anyone want long-ass opening music videos instead of actual fucking show?

>>85970909
why not both?

>>85962259
who the fuck would want counting for an opening

>>85969348
>so can they have sakuga too?
Yeah. Slow mo sequences of people fainting with absurdly detailed hair show up now and then.
Haven't watched Aria, specifically, but I could think of some similar examples if pressed.

>Why can't my cartoons be just like anime?
Well... just watch anime?

>>85970727
From this season (and what I'm watching) New Game and Amaama to Inazuma have serviceable but bland OPs with passable music. 91 days has a visually acceptable OP but the music isn't good. Mob Psycho 100 has a visually fantastic OP and a decent song. DiU's first OP was pretty good and the visuals are still pretty strong but the second OP moving to a generic pop-punk song really hurts it.

Beyond that a lot of action shows have really cringey metal/rock music and are really derivative and generic as a whole

>>85970727
Tokyo Ghoul was prbably the last anime I watched with shitty openings. Its first OP was generic as fuck in every way, shape and form. The second OP decided to go the opposite route. It had a fairly unique tone and visual style, but was heavy handed and incredibly pretentious. It conveyed what it set out to, that the two halves of himself were in conflict and that his fate was entwined with Whatsherbitch, but it failed to do so in an interesting manner.

>>85963329
>Aren't a lot of these made to promote the artist's single?
I am kind of surprised it took this many posts for someone to point this out.
Shilling the music sales is the prmary goal of the openings and they make tons of money off of it.

>>85971600
I though that was generally common knowledge. I'm a pretty pleb tier anime watcher and I knew that much at least.

>>85971600
OP's point is, however, that cartoons have no opening sequences at all.

>>85971600
That doesn't mean anime OP and ED can't be high quality

The primary goal of anime is to sell products but that motivation doesn't invalidate entire shows on its own

>>85971737
>If they were made now shows like The Simpsons and Futurama wouldn't have intros

>>85971776
>That doesn't mean anime OP and ED can't be high quality
No it means that they usually are. So that they can sell them. That's what it means.

>>85963329
>>85971600

That's mostly true since the 00s though, but elaborate anime openings and endings are much older than that.

Compare
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ODtsNMNJXk
to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_eBELOdsjE

I would have stuck the RID2015 op in there, but that doesn't really count as music.

>>85962468
Then advertising demands changed in a short time. YJ's intro time shrank between seasons.

>>85972117
I think it is more due to the staff just deciding the intro isn't worth the time it took up. A similar thing happened to Avengers Earth's Mightiest Heroes. They had a rather nice, if cheesy, opening for the first season and then it was cut down in the second.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtZ-cz-3zqo

Our world's about to break

OP's in anime either exist just to show off an animator/animators prowess or to promote some single.
I usually like the ones that show a little preview of the episode, and not ones that show scenes from different episodes.

>>85971914
The commercial aspect of it may have grown, but there was always a commercial aspect motivating it.
Even ancient family anime like Sazae-san employed a singer for the opening to promote the singles.

If anything I find it really weird that America, that is known internationally as the capitalist empire, doesn't do this stuff.

Because they prefer to have quality chapters

>>85972557
1. Anime actually makes money on their OPs/EDs, so they aren't losing budget on it. It's the opposite.
2. Even with the OPs/EDs, a typical anime episode still has a higher total running time than a typical American episode due to their being less ad time.

>>85962259
Have you watched any average anime in the past 20 years? OPs and ENDs are literally bait. All the promotional shots are either from OPs or ep 1, then the quality droos like shit until season BDs are sold. Is because japs can't manage budget for shit, they rely in the money that is to come due to the series sale rather than work with what they have in their hands at the moment. That's why they rely on tropes even for OPs, quick face or jump shots and even the same timing for every fucking OP (remember the 'snk theme goes with anything' meme?) Japs don't give a shirt about quality or being original, they only care about selling through pandering. What's the easiest pandering? Doing something beauty to the eye, no matter how dull in the inside it is

In western animation they work with what they have in order to never drop their quality standard, that's why they tend to be more simple. Have you seen quality drops in any western cartoon? Or any TV vs BD quality comparison? That's why most shows never go lower that 2 or 3 seasons, all their profit goes to producing the next season with better quality (check SU)

So OP stop being a weabo fag and go back to /a/

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>>85972881
SU is shit and your post is shit

lmao

>all shows quality drops after episode 1

wew lad

>>85972350
They employed professional singers, but the song was composed for the show itself, often title dropping or mentioning stuff about the show, and it usually ran for as long as the show's staff wanted.

Modern anime often have tie ins with upcoming singles that clearly aren't composed with the show itself in mind, and they often change openings and ending after 13 episodes in order to promote new releases. It's why openings now often at best are thematically similar to the shows, with their lyrics that can exist without the show's context at all.

>>85973242
>but the song was composed for the show itself
Yes. But they still wanted to sell it.

>>85973095
Is that your best bait pleb?

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>>85973582
>its bait because it don't agree with it

>>85973625
>its bait because it don't