>http://www.theouthousers.com/index .php/features/136167-

>The same thing applies sometimes to fans, who are constantly pressured by the industry to feel responsible for sales numbers and pass along that attitude to their peers. Don't want to >see your favorite character's book canceled? Well, you better preorder and tell all your friends to preorder too. Want to see more diversity in comics? You'd better buy whatever half-hearted attempt at cashing in on diversity Marvel is >promoting this month whether you enjoy reading it or not, or else they might get the idea that comic book readers don't like diversity, and that would be your fault, you see. Don't want to see your favorite artist die alone in poverty after >creating some of the most successful intellectual properties in the history of American pop culture? Well, you'd better keep shelling out $4.99 for those comics Marvel is giving them a 1% cut of, or that's your fault too.

Can you imagine if Coca-Cola's strategy to get you to buy soda was to guilt trip you into believing they'll have to cancel Sprite if you don't let your supermarket know to order three cases of it for you in advance this month? This shit wouldn't fly in any other industry, but in comics, for some reason, we all just accept it as if it isn't completely fucking insane.

Surely it's not because comics are a niche entertainment genre that's part of the dying print industry and sold in specialty stores.

>>85920735
Well yeah the specialty stores are explicitly mentioned in the article as part of the problem.

>>85920760
But they legally can't sell them anywhere else. They're locked in via contract with Diamond Distribution, which was able to weasel its way out of monopoly court because the judge decided "since comics aren't ALL print, you can't have a monopoly on them"

>>85920687
wtf I love outhousers now

>>85920811
>They're locked in via contract with Diamond Distribution

It's not as if they've signed a century long contract with them, m8. And it's Marvel and DC, backed by WB and Disney. They can get out of those contracts for, like, 20mil each without too much hassle.

>>85920687
The only valid article they've ever done.

>>85920735
Didn't this model exist before everything went to shit?
>>85920702
It'd be like if Coca-Cola had a monopoly on Soda but got out of Monopoly laws on the technicality that Soda wasn't all drinks.
>>85920863
You think Disney or WB would waste 20 mil just make their IP farms happy?

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Holy shit look at this fucking chode

>American """"""""journalism""""""""

>>85920892
>You think Disney or WB would waste 20 mil just make their IP farms happy?

They'd waste it to make that money back and then some with wider audiences. Plus, getting people to *actually* read comics is the key way to keep superhero/comic movie fatigue from setting in.

>>85920892
>You think Disney or WB would waste 20 mil just make their IP farms happy?
Uh, no duh.

>>85920894
>t. Axel

>>85920894
Yet another wannabe Hunter S. Thompson

>>85920702
To be fair that's exactly what they've been doing with Cherry Coke in Canada for years

>So the next time some Uncle Fester looking blowhard motherfucker deeply entrenched in the comics establishment lectures you on Twitter about how it's your responsibility to keep the comics you love afloat, politely let him know that it is, in fact, Marvel's job to sell comics, not yours, and for the past twenty years, they've been doing an absolutely awful job at it, regardless of their increasing profit margin.

BURN

I agree. Floppies, and the dependence on their sales that comics operate under, need to burn and die. The book market actually has immense growth potential, and the thing is we're starting to see genuine realization of this on the part of DC, which is cool.

Like, I'd be worried about smaller publishers like Valiant or Dark Horse, etc. surviving a death of floppies/the direct market, and that is a genuine concern, but... I just don't know. Letting comics overall be created in a genuine paperback format first mindset could easily be worth it.

>>85920702

But coke does cancel drinks if they don't sell

>>85920894
These kind of guys are usually fun to hang around. At least isn't a SJW.

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>>85920998
>some Uncle Fester looking blowhard motherfucker deeply entrenched in the comics establishment

>>85920998
I thought /co/ might like this, since not only does it call for the comics industry to die but it also slams Bendis.

And I do get a littl tired of comics professionals being bitchy about people wanting to trade-wait or buy digital or whatever. I get that it sucks for them right now, but come on.

>>85921037
coke doesn't guilt trip customers on that

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We had the same thread last night. It was mysteriously pruned.
I mase this for you.

>>85920941
I guess, but that's if they trust that investment to pay off, rather than let things keep on the way they are at no real loss to themselves and they get all the benefits of owning those delicious IPs.
>>85921037
But they don't guilt trip you into buying Sprite Code Blue, in fact they probably feel a bit foolish they made a soda that looks like toilet cleaner.

>>85920687
This is how entertainment works. TV, movies, video games, comics, anything. If you want more of something, you have to buy/watch it. If you don't, they won't make any more. Why would they? People didn't want it the first time.

They might have the point with advertising, if they did much of any advertising in the first place. The profit margins on comics are small, where is all this magical money for advertising suppose to come from? It was a big deal when DC had a few commercials during the New 52, but even those were partially paid for by local comic shops (I know mine use to run one during TWD and adult swim every so often).

I wouldn't say it's the fault of fans that Nighthawk was cancelled, nor was it Marvel's (if they didn't like it they just wouldn't publish it). It's the fact that people don't care about Nighthawk enough to make it profitable to continue publishing it. And that's what it boils down to in the end.

>>85921138

Was that the one where black guys and white guys were fighting?

Because that got pruned literally right after a guys said Black and Whites fighting is what the Jews want

Spooky

>>85920894
>marveldrone dmg control

>>85920998
Shots
Fucking
Fired

>>85921178
I wouldn't be surprised. I left, read an issue of ASM (#32), and then got back on and it was gone.

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>>85920998
>some Uncle Fester looking blowhard motherfucker deeply entrenched in the comics establishment

>>85920998
Thats an insult to uncle fester

But isn't this a self evident truth, shit that doesn't sell dies, what the hell is this dude arguing against?

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American comics should be more like manga.

>>85921314
Comic industry need a better business model

>>85921314
Following a link and reading is easy! Try it sometime.

>>85921361
No American artist would do a mangaka's schedule

>>85921451
They have loads of schedules though
Weekly
Biweekly
Monthly
BiMonthly
Quarterly
Yearly

Miura draws up a chapter every 5yrs for instance

>>85921361
Anime and manga are industries that are doing well more because of the insanity that is Japanese work ethic than anything else. Which is great, and it works, but it's a fragile peace.

A fucking lot of entertainment is burning. Cable television is a sinking ship, movies are relying more and more on putting their eggs in fewer higher budget tentpole flicks, etc.

Music and literature are the only entertainment industries that aren't struggling to some degree right now. Gaming would be under the same banner but hype culture and AAA standards have turned that industry into a shitshow as well.

>>85921361
The only aspect of manga I really like is how it has such a massive amount of creator developed content in non shared universes.

It actually allows for a huge amount of creativity and different situations instead of the same cape characters that have been lingering on for 50+ years and every new writer and artist that comes along just draws and writes the same fucking cape character that has been lingering around for 50+ years....

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>>85921451
The schedule they have to follow is insane.

>>85920998
>some Uncle Fester looking blowhard motherfucker

Fucking saved

>>85921484
There is also so much of it out there that pretty much everyone can come across a story they like and will read.

In America if you do not like superheroes...well shit, then you get to scrape through the specialty bin.

>>85921536
>he doesn't like getting more content faster
>he doesn't like the different art styles

>>85921314
the industry sucks in general, so when writers, artists, editors, etc try to remind you to buy shit, it's annoying

>2.50 seems to be the lowest price for standard sized floppies, next being 2.99 and 3.50
>marvel is all 3.99 now
>big two, especially marvel, liked and still like flooding the market with shit people can't afford
>OGNs can't be done all the time since the artist kind of needs to eat
>OGNs are more worthwhile sales wise when done by a star writer
marvel did a line of OGNs with some relatively well known creative teams a couple years back and all of them sold like ass, and then look at Morrison's, JMS', or Johns' OGN sales and DC ogn sales from before earth one
>big two have so many people working who need to get paid that they probably can't go lower than 2.99 and get a decent profit
>comixology sales need to be split between even MORE people
>digital has apparently started to stagnate some

like it's awesome that trade sales are growing but the industry sucks so hard before trades even come out
i'm sure execs from marvel and dc aren't happy, so they're constantly trying to find ways to be relevant, make money, and reach out into a new audience, but not many eureka moments so far

>>85921573
True, he really doesn't

Because neither of those fucking matter to anyone who actually reads the content.

>>85921484
>Music and literature are the only entertainment industries that aren't struggling to some degree right now.

Music is still trying to figure out how to monetize streaming, but the money is there.

literature does okay with fad books, but you get porn like 50 Shades being treated as the next big thing.

>Gaming would be under the same banner but hype culture and AAA standards have turned that industry into a shitshow as well.

Gaming is fine. There's more variety than anyone could want and studios can fail all the time without the industry tanking with it.

There's some internal business standards that need to be improved, but the industry is robust and growing.

>>85920998
>>85921063
>>85921229
>>85921566
Some Uncle Fester looking blowhard motherfucker?
The one deeply entrenched in the comics establishment?

>>85921672
Music has been struggling for far longer than everyone else anon. You just do not know it because you are 12 and grew up in the post Napster era.

>>85921536

Indeed. Sometimes its a bit tedious, like every time some anime includes vampires I have to open a goddamn notebook and write down what THIS GUY says a vampire is because it sure as shit isn't going to line up with any concept of vampires ever put to print before now. I'm lucky if they are still vulnerable to sunlight, and if an anime that includes vampires even MENTIONS garlic it gets +10 points.
Anime vampires are usually just some kind of demon that drinks blood, and all other bets are off.

But sometimes that's the fun part. I got really burn out on western scifi and fantasy for a while because I couldn't shake the feeling that it was all the same shit with different aesthetic packages. Anime, for better or for worse, keeps doing wild and crazy shit I haven't seen before.

And that's fun.

>>85920998
What did Bendis say? As far as I'm aware Brevoot is the one who has been shit talking the fans recently, with his tweets about the cancellation of FF and all that crap.

>>85921712

oh bullshit, charging 20 dollars for a cd was never gonna last

The decadence of the 90's gave way to the internet, like every other fucking thing grampa.

Musicians make more money from touring than their music sales, because the system is still too top heavy.

>>85921484
So does that mean that comics are on track to get replaced by digital comics in the same way cable tv and the film industry are slowly being choked by Netflix and its ilk?

>>85920687
It's just so weird seeing comic websites go after Marvel.

Has Comicalliance jumped on yet?

>>85921688
Uncle Fester?

Like, from the Adams Family?

>>85920894
Never been a fan of edgelords but his backstory sounds genuinely funny. Seems like a cool dude.

>>85921768
He lamented about "crackling comics getting cancelled" on Twitter, the tweets are in the article.

>>85921812
The Addams Family's Uncle Fester.

>>85921796

physical media is for hardcore fans as an extra treat for those willing to pay more

You'll still be able to get your over-sized copy of All-Star Superman or whatever if you really want it.

Young kids these days are nearly insuperable from their tablets, and comics will be for them

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>>85921536
Oh yes I love the vast diversity of having a random school series or that other random school series, or how about that series that takes place in the same fucking school as the other two? Oh yes when I think of diversity of storytelling I look to the nation that brought us a thousand fucking scenes of the same goddamn school with the same goddamn characters in the same goddamn situations with absolutely no difference in design in any character ever in the last thirty years. Yup anon you fucking said it, manga is the fucking diversetastic diverse set of totally unique, never happened anywhere before ever goddamn fuckfest of totally new and fresh ideas.

Say how about another episode featuring the student health checkups so we can see the female cast in their underwear again. Haven't seen that in almost 6 hours how.

>>85921860
Bendis is from the Adams Family?

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>>85921789
>Musicians make more money from touring

You see right here is where you fucked up. Because now I know that you know fuckall about just any aspect of the music industry...

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>>85921806
They keep rambling about DC movies, the white-washing of characters. and the lack of representation of the LGBTQRSTUV community in comics.

>>85920998
>Not an english speaker so I didn't know who uncle fester was
>Look it up on google
>It's the uncle from the Addams family
>mfw

>>85921860
Wait, the Addams Family? Like, the show, the Addams Family?

>>85921789
>more money from touring

wat?

>>85921923
Considering /co/ I can't tell if being facetious or not

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>>85921923

Every medium has its shit that appeals to the lowest common denominator. Read better manga.

>>85921983
I thought the first post was the joke

>>85921923
If all you read is high school "comedy" mangas that's your own fault

>>85921587
That's why they should just say "fuck it" when it comes to floppies and go the Shonen Jump method.
>Every week a book comes out
>Let's say, about 300 pages
>Enough for about ten floppies' worth of stories
>Shitty paper to cut costs on stuff that actually makes sense
>Black and white, or at least greyscale
>since it's big and cheaply made, it costs less per page
>Four different titles focusing on different groups
>for example, a "Batfamily" or "Avengers & Friends" book comes out about every four weeks
>4 extra weeks a year for something special
>Since it's not a floppy they can use a loophole to free themselves from Diamond
>Since it's not dozens of different titles every week, one can assume convenience stores and the likes could agree to pick them up, get some much needed exposure
>If someone's only interested in one of the stories in the anthology, they can buy digital, which also would be cheaper, since the prices are dictated by the prices of the floppies
>Cheaper by the page = cheaper by the story, so the digital version would be cheaper as well
>or they can tradewait

>>85921989
Back to /a/

>>85921948

Prove me wrong.

>>85921956
That Addams Family?

>>85921949
>the white-washing of characters

lolwut?

>>85922084
Adam's Family?

>>85922022
>Black and white

Gross

>>85921923
I kinda like how they can sell say

>Highschool drama
>Giant robot scifi
>mystery
>Historic fantasy
>sports series

comics in the same book along side the same old superhero. American stuff is mostly superheroes, and occasionally I don't care for superhero stuff. And the non superhero stuff always seem more specialty than the cape stuff.

>>85922055
You know I seriously don't even have to. you are just that fucking stupid it's not even necessary.

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>>85921451
>No American artist would do a mangaka's schedule

>>85921989
Holy shit did you just take this from MangaFox with that garbage ass quality? Fuck you and get hit by a truck.

>>85922128
I have some DC Showcase collections that are in black and white, it's all right, but I don't think thick anthologies are the future for Western comics, either.

>>85922097
Long story short, Ewing's New avengers has a different colouring than Hickman's, so Roberto da Costa's skin looks more clear. Apparently that's whitewashing, and a grave issue in comic books today.

>>85922134
See I like the non cape stuff, I like series like Scott Pilgrim and Hellboy. But typically to get more of that I gotta go manga. I would love to see some more western stuff follow in the same vein.

And it's not like non cape comics do poorly either. Most do get movie and series tie-ins and get a pretty good following. They are not going to get the Batman money but even most of the cape stuff won't do that either.

>>85922179

It was a quick google image search I grabbed specifically for this thread. I honestly don't even know what site it was grabbed from.

>>85921989
why are you linking a boring pedoshit manga that's only loved because it advertises beautiful ottoman and oriental clothing and furniture

>>85922237
But what was your point? Anti-manga joke or actually for that type of poorly drawn shit?

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>>85920998
10/10
I like this faggot.

>>85920687
To some extent is is their fault to another, the comic book example used wasn't worth a fucking shit.

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stop reading capeshit and read actual good comics like Descender

>>85922022
Some manga publishers have free webcomic on their websites. Sometime it's for promotion, like right now Deathnote is on shonen jump website now and gets update every week. And some manga actually gets published on web first then collected to book.
So yeah, American comic publishers really need to up their games.

>>85922154

I accept your defeat.

It feels good to win.

>>85921672
>>85921484
>music
>not struggling
There's more money in that market, but music has been struggling almost 25 years

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>>85922406
Their web publishing is pretty shit though plus it's really for cellphones

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/a/ faggots shit up another thread

Anime and mango only survives because a combination of insane fans and insane workers. Comics don't have artists and writers who are to starve to death in a tiny apartment and otaku losers who will spend hundreds on onaholes and body pillows because cute girls.

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>>85922450
>is literally 14

I thought summer was over

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>>85920687
>So, I don't know if /co/ hates Outhousers or not
They do a good job with the idea of "the Onion does comic books", but it's really hard to tell when they're posting pure snark or actual newspieces. Guessing that was kind of intentional

I actually wonder what would come of the comics industry if DC and Marver really did go under.

But gigantic parent corporations owning them guarantee that will never become a reality. Getting pissy at Marvel is almost the same as getting pissed at winter happening.

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>>85922157
>Claim this
>Post the manga with a super relaxed schedule

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>>85921484
Jesus fucking Christ anon, music has been struggling since the late 90's and never recovered from the massive dropoff in the early 00's

>>85922497
No one said that you have to read one or the other, just that maybe the western comic industry should try to study some of the business practices used in manga/anime

>>85922022
But here's the thing.

They're not going to do any of that.

Because they're comfortable exactly where they are right now. That, more than anything else, is the problem. These companies are comfortable being at the bottom of the totem pole in the grand schemes of their parent companies.

They're OK with basically not making much money for their parents, with not having many readers, with constantly being about 25k-50k total faithful readers from the company being closed for good.

It's ridiculous, IMO. At this point in time, with superhero movies and TV being more popular than ever, not capitalizing on it *at all* is just...so stupid and lazy.

Like. Fuck. I'm almost getting self-reflective on my own life, but it's like, they've clearly shot themselves in the foot by, first, backing the direct market model and, second, backing Diamond completely. But rather than try to fight and fix their shit, they just sit and wait for their inevitable death. And the best they can do is add in gimmicks to get the 200k comic readers in total to temporarily get tricked out of their money with events, relaunches, and all other types of bullshit.

It's like being a NEET and then eventually (but afterwards, consistently) screwing your provider out of their money, just so you can benefit a little bit. And you keep doing this bullshit again and again, pissing off your provider, who's getting more tired of your shit and, at some point, breaks down crying when they realize they'd be happier if you just died.

Fuck.

Comics should be more like monthly manga. Cheap, you can buy them everywhere, 40 pages per series every month in 400 page magazines.

>>85922640
It's sort of the problem, I have seen people attempt to have this same conversation before. About comics actually trying to follow the manga example but then the anti-weeb crew come out and start attacking people because they really want to have a west vs manga fight real bad and it ruins everything.

>>85922640
maybe business practices that work in another country won't work in another? because i know American comic authors would work excruciating hours for shit pay and i also know western authors will put up with otakus threatening their lives because their "waifu" isn't pure. crazy i know fuck off back to /a/.

>>85922569

It would die

>>85922511

I am 98 years old.

>>85922729
>shit pay
Manga has the perk of being creator owned so if you hit the jackpot with a popular series you become a millionaire. People like Toriyama, Rumiko Takahashi or Oda make more money than any comic book creator would dream of making.

>>85922729
>>85922640
>B-but miura
miura is only able to get away with it because he is extremely well respected and has one of the most popular manga in japan.

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>>85922614

>>85922640
>>85922722
You can't honestly believe that the absolute hell they put creators through over in Japan would fly over here. Not in a million years. Every comic creator short of Paul Pope - the absolute madman - that has seen firsthand how manga gets made nearly has a heart attack thinking about how fucked up it is. It gets results, but that's about all it does. Even if you tried to run a company like that here, you'd be ripped to shreds and sued into oblivion before you could get it going.

>>85922667
>It's ridiculous, IMO. At this point in time, with superhero movies and TV being more popular than ever, not capitalizing on it *at all* is just...so stupid and lazy.

Ok what should they do to capitalize on it. I was thinking that Marvel should have some text before their after credit scene saying something like "For more adventures with * visit your local comic store" How much would that plain text cost?

Something should have been done because Captain America sells less than fucking Aquaman

>>85922741

Not completely. We would still get webcomics, and the most successful of those will still do independent print runs.

Superhero comics, as a genre, would probably evaporate though. They would just become franchise fodder for other media, like games and movies. Probably not print books, though. I find it really hard to imagine I would enjoy most superheroes in a non-visual medium.

>>85922569

Image does fine.

in fact, this thread has inspired me, I'm going to make a different thread on a slightly different subject.

>>85922774
>america doesn't have creator own comics
what is image
what is veritgo
and you're not taking into account comics isn't as popular in the west as manga is in Japan. you're spouting simplistic idiotic opinions for no reason.

The Outhousers guy just sounds like he's pissed off that Nighthawk got cancelled.

>>85922846
Vertigo isn't really creator-owned anymore.

>>85922784
Monthly manga doesn't have the same work schedule as weekly manga. Either way, it's format would be incredibly difficult to adapt to comic books. For starters, most of the times the writer IS the artist. And he or she has at least 3-4 assistants.

>>85922667
are you ok anon?

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>>85920998
>some Uncle Fester looking blowhard motherfucker

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>>85922830
>Probably not print books, though

>>85922827
Probably the most obvious thing, suggested by nearly everyone:

Comic racks at movie theaters, promoting either the movie's real ongoing comic, the tie-in comics, or whatever directly inspired the thing.

And maybe the comic racks can say, "Go to your LCS for more; here's [comic shop locator] for help!"

>>85922491
That's why they are free. But it's good for new artists.

>>85922814
Yea I agree 18 pages weekly is insane and unobtainable. But I do like the creator owned aspect that has a bigger industry behind publishing it than what we have here.

>>85922846
>What is this obscure book that few know of these days
>What is this even more obscure book even fewer know about?

Deep lore anon, very deep

>>85920811
>But they legally can't sell them anywhere else.
BULLSHIT

I see floppies in Books-A-Million

>>85922827
They just need to put the comics in places other than CBS. That's all they need to do. As it is, the industry is dying because stagnation, that's all there is to it. If comics were sold in other, more easily accessible places, a random person buying from a grocery story might see the newest Captain America, think about how they liked the Cap movies, and pick it up. Now, the writers would have to actually produce quality material to keep people reading, but that's another issue. The current issue is getting people to start reading.

>>85922846
>>85922867
even if we take out veritgo we still have webcomics.
Aaron Diaz makes over 4,000 a month on patreon for 5 pages a year
Michelle Czajkowski almost 2 thousand on patreon a month for less than that
Asley Cope who is the only serialized webcomic I know that updates regularly makes 1,700 a month through patreon

>>85922919
>>85922954
>>85922827

There should be a #1 of whatever character before each new movie and sell them at the theater as part of some special promotional ticket or something. Even if it doesn't lead to a ton of new readers fake nerds will eat that shit up and Marvel and DC could sell a million copies of a book easily

>>85922729
>>85922784
>>85922814
Well shit, nigger, maybe then they would decide not to use the worst parts of the business model and instead use the parts of the model that they can work with and try to combine the strengths of both.

The current model isn't working, they need a new one and there isn't anything wrong with looking toward outside sources for inspiration.

>>85922932
>walking dead obscure
>hellblazer obscure
>fables obscure

which also brings me to my next point you /a/ faggots fail to acknowledge comics aren't as popular in the west as it is in Japan

>>85923104
immediately saying
>muh grourious does it this way
doesn't take into account the economical and cultural reasons manga sells in japan.

>>85920811
Do you keep pulling facts out of your ass? DC, Bongo, Archie, and the publisher of the Darkwing Duck comic sell monthly comics on the newsstand, and Diamond isn't involved with newsstand distribution.

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>>85922830
>I find it really hard to imagine I would enjoy most superheroes in a non-visual medium.

Its doable.

How come Japan has such a smaller population than the US but manga is way more popular and their successful authors are far more richer than successful comic book artists?

>>85922669

>comics should have distributors everywhere, have more content and release everything in a nice big package, all this while also lowering their prices

well, yeah and i want to be king of the universe but i doubt that would be realistic

>>85923069
Honestly, they don't even need to make new #1s, I know a lot of people that want to get into comics, but have no idea where to start, especially because they see sometimes dozens of different #1s. Nowadays, I think people are smart enough to just get the story, and if there's anything they don't get, they can just look it up. Also, they should bring back those boxes that explain the things referenced in the story and what issue they're from. I still have no idea why those are used less now. You have to understand, in the late 60s to mid 80s, comics were incredibly popular. Comics were just as complex then as they are now, but they were better written, there wasn't a crossover event every few months, and they were sold in places where everyone could get them.

>>85922669
The printed format isn't the issue. Comics need more exposure. THAT is the lesson American publishers need to learn from Japan and Europe. You need to take the material to the consumer, instead of demanding that they come to you.

>>85920687
there's probably more than 100,000 reading overall, but it's still not likely to be regularly much more than 500,000 in the US and Canada combined

part of the problem comics have is that they're slimline publications, that is, you don't get 400 pages each month and free samples of makeup and whatever else the advertisers want to sell, which is it has to be said partly the fault of the audience - they don't want a free $8 sample of a $40 beauty treatment, they want a free $8 DVD or a movie ticket - but is also the fault of the advertisers - there aren't enough of them, and that's because there aren't enough people reading comics to make it worth producing a glossy-style monthly with all that crap in it and a similar cover price, just like there aren't enough people watching CW to make it worth upping the budget of Arrow

some of that obviously comes down to the producers, but whenever they try anything different they face this huge, bitchy, public backlash - we don't want x to be y, we don't want this book to continue when this book is getting cancelled - and to be honest, it's not hard to see why publishers take this about as seriously as the complaints of a child who is not enjoying their bedtime story because they're full of sugar; a lot of the complaints are constant, from the same people, regardless of what the publishers do

these people are known as cranks as they are just part of the reason publishers don't take their audiences seriously

pre-ordering isn't in itself a problem, but the fact is any other periodical publisher is going to offer subscriptions where you're buying for the year at a drastically reduced cover price; there's collusion with the LCS there to keep you going in to stores that are basically redundant to buy shit you can get from Amazon same day anyway, and it means series are cancelled because they lack longer-term investment (not that subs are foolproof, but they're better than this)

>>85923185
For starters, it's much cheaper and you can buy manga magazines in every single store. It's also much easier to get into it since the stories are fully self-contained. If you pick One Piece 1 it's the beginning of One Piece, not the beginning of certain run or arc.

>>85923185
less stigma for a long time if your read comics past the age of 12 you was a nerd especially since the comics code pushed the medium back
otaku market pandering you can see it now with isekai obsession.
Japanese companies also don't care about doujins where as try making a fan comic about a big two superhero.

>>85923185
>far more richer
Dude, they don't make that much surprisingly.

Sometimes I wish comic book movies didn't exist or were as popular. Not due to hipster IHATE/tv/ shit because I love them, it's because I think that due to the automatic success of comic book movies it's made the act of actual comic book creation lazy. Marvel can sell as shitty as the want because they make millions off of the movie adaptation that turns out to be better written because it has more quality control.

>>85923275
Oh please the most popular manga's all have the same problems that most american problems face pandering and it goes on too long.

>>85922919
This is a fucking great idea. Why has nobody even TRIED to do this yet?

>>85923311
No, the main problems of comic books is the pacing being all wonky from the 20 pages per month format and the lack of real entry point for most series.

>>85920687
Good, good. I too am tired of the "Pre-order, please!!!" from creators.

>>85923205
This.

Honestly, Marvel (and DC, but especially Marvel) needs to implement the comic book version of shock therapy.

To anons less versed in the history of economics, I'm referring to the 90s transition from socialism to capitalism in the former Eastern Bloc. What ended up happening was that the massive reforms were initially incredibly destructive (as the whole system was corrupt and unsustainable), but that after several years, they started to see growth, and are prospering to this day.

Not getting into macroeconomic arguments over the details for obvious reasons, my point is that the new EiC (and I'm reasonably certain we'll see one in the next few years, because Ike's bigwigs certainly notice this shit more than we do) will have to do some fundamental changes, and that the company has to be prepared to suffer a bit for a while.

Marvel's biggest problem right now is not the forced diversity or baiting long-time fans or anything. All of that is just window-dressing, symptoms. Their problem is that nobody in editorial clearly knows how to run a company. All of their practices are geared towards short-term returns, with no sustainable growth patterns.

A middle schooler, if they had nothing better to do than obsess over sales figures and the like, would be able to figure out that spamming #1s and going from event to event (sometimes even concurrently) is a terrible, terrible business model.

I'm not an expert, so I can't argue decisively over doing this or that, but major changes have to be made, or Marvel won't make it to their next big anniversary in anything resembling this form.

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>>85920998
This guy's good

>>85920735
The niche would be wider if it was sold everywhere (supermarket, bookstore...) and not just in specialty stores.

I live in Europe and the first time I bought an american comic, it was in a newsstand. I would never have started reading comics if I have had to go to a specialty stores (and we got some) to buy one. I bought my first manga in a supermarket too.

It's really strange that such a system exists in a country obsessed with the free market like the USA.

>>85923394
???
Marvel relaunches ever 6 months
DC has an continuity clean even once every couple years and stop saying DC and Marvel represents all comics you uneducated weeb. Their are plenty of creator owned comics with a clear beginning middle and end with a single writer. Some of DC's most well known stories are in their own universe that has no bearing on the main earth too

>>85923365
My guess is that moviegoers would either
>A: Not want to read something they just watched
>B: Already own the comic
>C: Don't want to pay more than they already have on tickets and food

>>85923417

> but that after several years, they started to see growth, and are prospering to this day.

>As of 2014, the average life expectancy in Russia was 65.29 years for males and 76.49 years for females.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9chetJZw488

>>85923417
Everything you said is completely correct, Marvel, and to a lesser extent, DC are doing the same things that drove them into bankruptcy in the 90s. Spamming the consumers with things that boost sales in the short term, that eventually become so routine they stop boosting sales, all while making the comics significantly harder for new readers to get into, and driving away old readers. Marvel's comics are already sinking again, and soon enough, they'll be moving less units than the population of a small city, when they could be selling millions on a monthly basis.

>>85923417
>Their problem is that nobody in editorial clearly knows how to run a company.

Ah, but does Marvel truly care how many people buy their comics? My guess is that with Disney making billion dollar movies, the difference in 10,000 sales is laughably inconsequential. Here are some things they probably DO care about:

Positive press coverage in mainstream media (USA Today, CNN, NY Times, etc)

Protecting the IP. For example, don't have Ms. Marvel do anything too radical (like kill someone, or vote for Trump) if you want a movie deal secured.

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Perhaps American comics simply isn't nimble enough.

First lets assume a monthly schedule cause weekly printed manga are fucking insane, the creator is insane, and often the quality plummets if it goes weekly anyway. Fuck that noise. We have no interest in killing our comic book writers and artists, after all. I'd also personally prefer to wait for fewer higher quality releases than half assed shit with no backgrounds EVER because that's how a weekly release goes.

Even then, manga are owned by the person who writes and draws it. Which is the same fucking person in all cases. Even then, the only ones with more than a single assistant are the really popular ones. You get a 'team' cause you can afford to hire one yourself, really. American readers would probably balk at shifting to line art releases, so we still need a colorist, but how many of the other jobs can be handled by fewer people? American comics are still organized as if they are a still a cash raking industry. Not just in the actual drawing of the comic itself, but the people who oversee them. Since American creators never own anything they make, their companies deem it necessary to breath down their necks. Nor do they have real creative control cause it's not THEIR baby. Not really. Such oversight costs money itself. There's tons of jobs that can probably be eliminated. Granted, that means a bunch of dead weight will have to find jobs in some other industry, but this is about saving COMICS in this thread. Not jobs.

As a separate note, all the money that is left is siphoned off to the companies that own everything anyway. I doubt there's much incentive for anyone who works on American comics to give a single damn. Even if they put their soul in to a work and make it a super star, they won't be rewarded or remembered for it.

>>85922491
Are those... Winged hussars riding dragons in a manga?
I get the feeling the rest of it is not as great as this image implies and is about some whiny teenager instead.
A man can dream tho.

>>85922300
motherfucker I've already fapped twice today, leave me alone

>>85922954
And it's not even that, either.

You can't even just order a physical comic online from Amazon or any direct sellers, only from secondhand resellers.

In Marvel/DC/Image's perfect world where they 1) create a normie-bait gimmick, 2) somehow rope NYTimes or whoever into running the story, and 3) actually release the comic in a near time ---- the person reading the article probably isn't going to know or be arsed to figure out how to buy the damn comic.

People are already lazy about going to movie theaters, which are things they (usually) really want to see and have a real impact on pop culture. Telling someone they (more likely than not) have to go out of their way to buy ONE comic, at $4, for 10-20 minutes of enjoyment *at best*, is silly.

And at least right now, in America (or from my perspective anyway), the physical side can't just be ignored. When people think "comic book", even if they don't know the terminology or all of the characters and companies and whatnot, they nonetheless can imagine a nerd holding a floppy -- and while the nerd may be becoming more handsome by the year, the floppy isn't suddenly becoming more digital.

This is a simple problem that could be fixed in the short-term and get more cash into everyone's wallets, but Diamond says "nooooo", and thus, it's off the table.

(Another reason why the Amazon/direct online seller thing would work is because people make impulsive purchases online ALL. THE. TIME. And while some do try to get refunds, most just say, "Whoops. Oh well, what's done is done.")

>>85923552
I can tell you right away, even if Marvel doesn't care, Disney absolutely fucking does. The Mouse doesn't like people wasting money, and if Marvel's selling like shit and devaluing the IPs while wasting money on actually making comics, they'll just shut Marvel down and use the IPs without pretending the comics matter.

>>85923365
If I had to take a guess, it's because of the miserly state of the movie theatre industry. Those fuckers don't like ANYONE cutting into their profits as they desperately cling to relevance.

>>85923417
>>85923437
As a fellow European who discovered comics in the same way, I have a few suggestions:

Focus on kids. I can't stress this enough. The most vital part of any long-term plan. That's your new readership. For the other groups (teens, college kids) you'd maybe get them for a few years before the vast majority move onto something else. Not to mention that the main universes are incredibly byzantine and complex, so a lot of the late-comer fans I met prefer to stick to their favorite little corner for simplicity's sake - which is bad, because you might have gotten a new reader, but they don't really matter if all they're buying is fucking Daredevil and nothing else.

Kids will swallow this shit. Kids don't care if there are a million issues of something, they'll pick a random one, start reading, and then go from there.

I got into comics in a roundabout way: I watched the Spider-Man and X-Men movies as a kid, thought they were really cool. Then Ultimate X-Men and USM #1 came out on newsstands, and I was excited. I realized (because kids might be dumb, but they're not retards) the story is slightly different but it was still the same characters so I kept buying. Meanwhile, the 90s shows were airing on Fox Kids, and I loved watching those. So at, say, 10, I was a fan of the movies, the cartoons and Ultimate, but had never picked up a 616 book.

Eventually, I came across a few random floppies being sold. I bought those, and then the next, and then the next. Most of the comics were pretty self-explanatory, thanks to the recap pages, and my previous general knowledge of the characters. Any holes I could figure out over the internet.

About 5,000 read comics and over a decade later, I'm writing here. What was the point of this post?

That Marvel needs a separate line that kids can buy. It doesn't need to be all-ages (late elementary and middle school kids can handle PG-13 just fine), but just a few comics featuring A-listers that kids can follow. (cont.)

>>85921484
Gaming is making money hand over fist, as long as some silly AAA publisher or dev does not throw so much money at their games they need to sell it in absurd amount of copies and cut it up into DLCs to make a decent profit.

Current awful marketing practices are not a result of a dying industry as much as overwhelming greed. Right now they're no longer content with making some money, they want to make all the money. And they feel it can be done.

>>85923531
Russia admittedly doesn't really count (I was referring to places like Poland or Czech Republic) because they had a different experience in the 90s, having undergone a civil war and then sliding back into authoritarianism.

Still, if you look at date from 2013 compared to 1990, there's still a marked improvement.

>>85923581
It boils down to convenience. The only people who go out of their way all the way to a retailer to buy comics are people who are already massive fans, and they're starting to get disenfranchised with the shit that Marvel/DC have been putting out. New fans, and even casual fans don't like going to an LCS to buy overpriced shit that's most likely garbage. Even if the comic is good, the fan starts to wonder if all the hassle and expenses are really worth it, and if they're a new fan, they most likely won't be coming back.

The suggestion in this thread of switching to a style similar to eastern manga might help a little, but that's like applying a bandaid to a man with a missing arm, it's not going to help with the real problem, which is the stagnation comics are facing now as print media is dying and convenience is king.

>>85921845
get outta here Jude!

>>85921975
>>85921948
He means from concerts and shit
The fuck are you guys about

>>85923581
>You can't even just order a physical comic online from Amazon or any direct sellers, only from secondhand resellers.

TFAW lets you set up a digital pull-list, if that counts for anything.

>>85922022
I think a 5 floppies worth of stories would be more manageable in term of revenue. And you can use colored version, just use cheap papers to reduce price. Thematic anthology is a good idea too. You like Avengers? Here a monthly anthology with 5 differents Avengers stories. And it would help promote new titles.

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You guys are really overestimating the interest in comics of their main demographic. It's not as simply as plastering the walls with MARVEL or DC ads and everyone will instantly buy your comics.

Have you people ever stopped to think that maybe, just maybe, people aren't that interested in comics anymore, like toy sales, the market is smaller than it was 30 years ago simply because the demographic has reshaped dramatically. Comics sales have been on a shrinking rate since the 80s and i don't know of a single kid today that would rather get a super rare comic anthology than an XBOX or a PS4

A response
>http://www.comicsbeat.com/kibbles-n-bits-83116-comics-industry-is-in-its-death-throes/

>This call to arms was preceded by a history of the direct sales market that was alarming in its complete lack of accuracy. (Terror went back in and fixed the worst errors, but just in case you think Marvel or Diamond invented the direct sales system, they didn’t – it was a bunch of retailers led by Phil Seuling.) The analysis of how we got to 2016 was so wobbly that it pretty much would have made me disregard everything else that Terror wrote, but I can’t ignore the angry mob of readers and creators who have taken up its call. I took off my headphones and I listened.

And then Jude responds in the comments. Oh, comic journalism.

>Speaking of inaccuracy, I didn’t change or “fix” anything about what I said about the direct market in that article; perhaps you simply read something that wasn’t there the first time. Nor was it meant to be an in-depth history of how the direct market was created (and framing it as if it were is pedantry). The point was that Marvel would rather sell few comics at high prices with high margins to a small audience than sell many comics with low margins to a broad audience, and that while this may make Marvel profitable in the short term, it has lead to the slow, painful death of superhero comics and their audience.

>But thanks for the lecture, mom! :P

>>85923806
But demographics don't change for no reason, and the question is how to market to the new demographic, which is what these companies are failing to do, and it can be done. Kids don't want comics nowadays, because they don't really care about comics, because Marvel and DC aren't marketing the comics properly. The business model is fundamentally flawed.

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>>85923656
>It doesn't need to be all-ages
The thing is their All Ages line was actually really good, especially the Thor comic. The comics weren't dumbed down in anyway they just didn't include the kind of shit you would see in The Ultimates

>>85923656
The movies they got covered, they're bigger than ever.

But Marvel also needs a strong animation line, not this barely-animated shit they're passing off to kids. School-age kids are young, but they can generally tell the difference between shit and not-shit. They won't get attached to characters long-term if the medium and stories are crappy and low-effort. I like Spider-Man because TAS had bomb-ass stories, not simply because OH LOOK IT'S SPIDER-MAN. The latter kind of fascination wears off quickly.

So you get movies that kids watch in theaters, good cartoons they can watch after school, and a few comics (but not too many, 4-5 max) they can buy to get more adventures.

And then after a few years they can transition into the main universe, where their affection for the characters will be greater than any potential archive panic or confusing timelines.

Hollywood runs on nostalgia today. Marvel got kids to like the characters, now they have to get them to like reading about the characters in comics, too. And 616 can be too confusing for a kids to serve as a good entry point.

So:
>strong animation
>a few dedicated comics featuring "classic" continuity so kids have a baseline they can recognize (no Schism X-Men, AIMvengers, etc., keep it old-school). Don't belittle your readers, though, make the stories good.

And then have a few of your titles sold at newsstands. Again, maybe a few (the separate continuity kids can get into and a few A-list books), but enough that someone waiting for a subway or browsing newspapers can stumble upon. Better luck of getting new or lapsed readers this way than through LCSs. European comics are sold at newsstands and they reach audiences the Big Two can only dream of. Make comics physically accessible and more people will buy them.

TL;DR: Get them while they're young and they'll like you forever (even if not all of them end up buying comics). Make comics accessible to the general public in newsstands, supermarkets, etc.

>>85923531
Poland is a better example of what he's talking about. Russia is a shithole no matter who's running the show.

>>85923656
The thing is, Marvel doesn't need to market specifically to kids, it just needs to put books in places where kids will read them, because kids will read anything. Kids are incredibly easy to market towards, it's keeping kids reading as they grow up that gets harder.

>>85921484
>movies are relying more and more on putting their eggs in fewer higher budget tentpole flicks,
That's an industry choice. Big company could continue to finance 12 movies a year with a few successful movies compensating for the loss of the unsuccessful ones. They choose to do tentpole flicks because when it works, it brings much more money. Still, they only make 5 movies a year, and 2 or 3 of them have a very low budget.

They choose to make a lot of money at once based in part on luck rather than make money steadily as they did the last 60 years.

And manga is declining compared to the 90s.

>>85921361
They could stand to learn more posing at the very least

>>85923938
>it just needs to put books in places where kids will read them,

Do they even offer anything at Book Fairs, or through those Scholastic catalogues?

Are those things even around these days?

What was so great about this Nighthawk series that people are upset about it being canceled?

From what I read in the Squadron Supreme book, Marvel has just wiped away the "insane racist" part of the character, which was a pretty major part of Nighthawk in Supreme Power.

>>85923990
I think they're still around, I'm not sure. They don't put real comics there, at least they didn't when I was in school. I actually got started reading comics through those book fairs, because I bought some handbook for the marvel universe and it had a comic in the back of the book. Now, if that worked for kids, imagine if they actually started putting real comics in those? Trade Paperbacks, floppies, whatever. It could really help grab new readers, even if it's just a few.

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>>85921923
>He doesn't know

>>85923990
>Scholastic catalogues?
Bone

Jeff Smith fucking struck gold by getting his comic into Scholastic

>>85920687
Nighthawk was pure dogshit. You know you fucked up when Daniel Way grossly outclasses you.

>>85922497
>he doesn't have any /a/ thing he likes
I've been to /a/ once a year ago for about 3 minutes to see what it was like.
It was "meh".
I only really like one /a/ thing, and many /co/ things. I can only assume I'm not alone on that front. Nothing wrong with enjoying things, this isn't fucking /v/.

>>85923863

>But demographics don't change for no reason

The reason it's called technology, I don't know how long have you been frozen in time but since video games have existed comic sales have gone down hill, it's a fact we now live in the digital era.

>it can be done

Or maybe kids today are interested in things that are outside the scope of comic books.

>Kids don't want comics nowadays, because they don't really care about comics

correct

>because Marvel and DC aren't marketing the comics properly

aaaaand back to over estimating the market

Look i can advertise a Cup-and-ball toy with the most rad shit insane ad on the planet but people are just not gonna buy it simply because nobody cares about it anymore and there's other devices that fulfill the entertainment purpose better, it's just not gonna happen.

>>85924162
Yeah, but most people who have been on /co/ for a while still remember when /a/ faggots shitposted all the time here. Now they've mostly been replaced with /pol/ and /tv/, but /a/ is still treated like a boogeyman.

>>85921789
>Musicians make more money from touring than their music sales,
You do know that the music industry made an insane amount of money in the 80s and the 90s when everybody could buy a tape recorder and then a cd player?
If musician made most more their money from tour, the industry wouldn't have suffer from the decline of sales than never recover due to Napster and such in the 2000s.

Here's a graph:
http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2014/08/26/music-industry-1973-2013/

>>85924183
Yes, and comics can adapt to the digital era, the issue is they're stuck in a business model that's seriously outdated. It's not that they're just doomed to die now because video games exist, it's that they're refusing to adapt in favor of a safe, but slowly shrinking market.

>>85922491
>it's really for cellphones
That's every japanese sites, anon. They are ugly because they're made to be accessed by phone.

>>85924198
Remember the time when everything we disliked wasn't Tumblr, it was Reddit. And nobody gave a shit about that silly blog site?

Remember before even that, when 9gag was mega-popular for a bit, like 5 years ago? Everyone shat on 9gag then.

We'll always find someone to hate from without, and someone to hate from within.

>>85921949
I never understood why people complain about whitewashing but others are racist if they complain about pointless raceswaps or changes in design.

Are people finally waking up to Marvel's Outrage=Sales model? That seriously needs to die if they don't want to fuck themselves.

>>85923830
This Jude guy is fucking savage

>>85922729
>because i know American comic authors would work excruciating hours
Who said comics needed to become weekly product?

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>>85921108
Because soft drinks aren't an artistically driven pursuit.
So when an artist/author fails to sell enough copies, it's their career on the line.
Coke isn't personally dependent or personally invested in any new venture or drink: they adjust to the whims of the industry. Artists and authors feel they have to balance industry whims with their own vision.

>>85922107
A Hind D?

>>85924162
Who said trying to treat comics like manga would magically fix everything?

>>85922511
>I thought summer was over

Why are you still here? You couldn't even come up with one source stating otherwise.

>>85923930
Wrong. At the beginning of the 20th century, Russia was becoming a powerhouse that rivaled the British Empire.

>>85922873
Yeah but in a comics, you've got a writer, an artist, a colorist, a letterer and sometimes even an inker. That's about the same amount of persons working on a chapter. Appart from the assistants who sometimes/often draw a bit of background (it depends on the mangaka), it's not that different.
With a monthly release, I don't think it's excruciating to do.

>>85923182
Superman was also a radio show

>>85924253

>It's not that they're just doomed to die now because video games exist

Never said they were, just that market is considerably much smaller and less profitable yet you guys still expect everything to improve in terms of distribution, content and prices.

/v/ can safely and justifiably complain about those because the vidya market is huge and it's only growing every month, but you really can't say the same for comics.

>a business model

You do know what all businesses do when their markets shrink right? They start cutting expenses, try to diversify and reach other markets and audiences which is exactly what is happening now.

>>85922187
I think black and white depends heavily on the series. Like, Dr. Strange could never go without color, but something like Daredevil could.

>>85922012
And the same can be said for American comics, even within the superhero genre. The late 80's had the edgy and dramatic Suicide Squad, the comedic and light-hearted JLI, old-fashioned detective stories in Batman, keikaku shit in Captain Atom, political stuff in Amethyst, and a lot more than that.

As with any medium, if all you look at is the most popular stuff, of course you're gonna see generic and samey crap.

>>85923701
>Give a case that is counter to his agruement
>Th-hat doesn't count because...because I said it doesn't count

>>85923115
They would be a bit more popular if they weren't closeted in comics shops.

Let's look at Marvel's plans for the next year
>Death of X
>Inhumans vs X-men
>Clone Saga 2
>New relaunch after CW2

>>85922614
That was the point. He didn't claim, he meme arrowed someone else's claim.

Fuck off, bitch.

>>85923930

Russia was one of the two biggest powers of the world for almost half a century, today is little more than a regional power and weapon seller. That's not even on the same scale no matter how you look at it.

>>85924624
Wow, can't accept that you are wrong? Always need to have the last quip?

>>85924624
Hellblazer had a movie and a tv show
Fables has a video game
Walking dead is fucking huge with 2 tv shows plus a talk show,and multiple video games

>>85924143
This, why he had to choose such a shitty series that was destined to be a mini from day one to illustrate his point is beyond me.

>>85923701
>civil war

What? You are making shit up.

>>85920998
Incredible.

How will Bendis ever recover?

>>85922201
Hellboy is capes.
He is part of fucking super team in his first stories. There are super scientists and fucking super villians throughout. It is a super hero comic.
Hipsters and their fear of being caught reading capes is fucking laughable.

>>85924662
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

I'll still buy the X-shit, Clops help me.

>>85923185
People read a lot more than in a lot of country. It's not just manga, they sell a lot more of newspaper, magazine and books than a lot of western countries.

And about comics, manga is really popular. Teenagers in school talk about the last chapters of one serie like teenagers in America talk about the last episode of a tv show.

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>>85923115
>My comics are not obscure!
>You fail to realize how obscure my comics are!!

So...yea...

>>85924580
Audio dramas need to come back in style.

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>>85922506
>you wouldn't buy a Rogue onahole

>>85924765
You are so retarded it hurts

>>85920687

they aren't wrong but they aren't right either. Comicbeat had a good rebuttal argument

>>85924609
I forget that 4chan is literally autistic about sensible discourse.

Russia isn't a good example because, as I said, they didn't undergo the same situation. They had a fucking civil war in the mid-90s, obviously structural reforms aren't going to be your fucking priority. Not to mention that there was a marked difference in political will between Poland or Czechia or Estonia and Russia when it came to reforms (again, see civil war above).

And also, you turbo autist, I ended my brief post by saying that DESPITE all of this, Russia STILL improved dramatically compared to the immediate pre-reform period.

Now before I get another academically disingenuous response, I'll clarify that I used 2013 because afterwards you get the Crimean crisis, the Ukraine war, Western sanctions, massive oil price fluctuations etc. - far too many black swans for a reasonably accurate analysis.

But please, keep using the stuttering meme in response to someone who acknowledged the previous poster's point and then reasoned why it still doesn't change his argument.

>>85924817
>>85924722
So...yea...

>>85924662
I wonder what they're going to do when the second wave of Rebirth hits and out does Marvel Now. Are we going to hit maximum "outrage" and they produce "Civil War 3: The Race War" finally?

>>85921314

They peddle shit and blame readers for not buying it. This is likely talking partially about Brevoort blaming readers for not buying F4 even though the comic was still selling better than the other titles they have been forcing on buyers.

>>85924868
>Calls other autistic or autists
>Projecting his own autism

Keep on trucking!

>>85924738
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_Russian_constitutional_crisis

The President dissolved Congress, Congress impeached him, there was fighting in the streets, resistance leaders were arrested.

"The ten-day conflict became the deadliest single event of street fighting in Moscow's history since the Russian Revolution"

It's not full-scale warfare like in 1917, but that's just because it ended faster and the status quo folks won.

>>85924839
What makes a Rogue onahole different than Rei Ayanami onahole or whatever?

Why, honestly, add one of these to my collection?

>>85924932
I don't understand why they don't just admit it's due to movie rights being over at FOX. Honesty would go over better

>>85924868

Not the guy you were responding to but, are you retarded?

>Russia STILL improved dramatically compared to the immediate pre-reform period.

They're fucking worse even after 20 years of reform, the life expectancy went down and hasn't improved since then. In no point of their post soviet history have they improved the life conditions for their population.

>>85924765
I always found capes to be a vague label.
What makes a cape book a cape book?
If teams, super scientists and super powers is all you need then tons of different scifi falls into that.

>>85924868
I couldn't call the First Chechen War a civil war. It was more a low-level insurrection, you pseudo-intellectual. You talk a lot of shit for not knowing anything.

>>85924974
If they admitting they're sabotaging FOX then Fox can sue right?

>>85923311
I don't think you realise the effort japanese companies do to introduce new series in their anthologies every once in a while.
Yeah some manga are very long (some started in the 70s) but most last for 10 to 30 volumes which is a few years.

For one very popular manga that goes on for 10 years, you've got tens of other manga that will last 10 to 30 volumes. Or even less than 10 volumes. The market is a lot bigger so they benefit from more diversity in their stories.

>>85924948
>write post stating something
>get reply focusing on a secondary statement in post
>acknowledge missgivings, still provide reasons for argument
>get meme post instead of argument

>call poster autistic but still reply with arguments and facts
>again no arguments, just "projecting autism"

M8, I'd hate to see the school you went to if meme posts are fine, but reasoned discourse is autism.

>>85921451
Not all mangas follow the weekly release schedule. There are some manga that are released in Monthly magazines, heck Dungeon Meshi one of my favorite mangas only has 10 Chapters a year.

>>85924952

>resolved in 10 days

That's not exactly a civil war.

>>85924952
A failed coup does not make a civil war.

>>85925015
I meant just saying we aren't publishing F4 due to issues with the rights and leaving it at that.

>>85922919
>>85923365
>>85923069
Idk, with how much a movie costs, I wouldn't really feel like throwing more money at disposable media.

>>85924952
Ah, so Turkey had a one day civil war this pass summer?

>>85923185
They actually print more than the same damn superheroes for decades and decades.

Some series actually forego all the nerd stuff and they have things like sports and romance series. There is actually something for everyone instead of just something for cape fans.

>>85925051
Yet people pay those absurd prices for popcorn.

Also, almost every movie theater I've gone to, even the discount ones, had arcade games with someone usually playing them.

>>85924955
It authentically recreates the sensation of stealing your life force, truly something a true fan could appreciate.

>>85922022
I'm sorry but that sounds horrible. I'm not gonna buy a book where I'm only interested in some of it.

>>85922300
You can't just post this and walk away, anon.

I at least need a name. Google's best guess is 'thigh'.

>>85921451
successful mangakas have several assistants
no one really works by themselves
american artists already usually have inkers, colorists, and an entirely different team does covers sometimes, but its not unreal for an american artist to do this

>>85925011
Wasn't even referring to that, but please keep the insults coming while backing up my claims.

>>85925002
Between 2000 and 2012 Russia's energy exports fueled a rapid growth in living standards, with real disposable income rising by 160%.[36] In dollar-denominated terms this amounted to a more than sevenfold increase in disposable incomes since 2000.[37] In the same period, unemployment and poverty more than halved and Russians' self-assessed life satisfaction also rose significantly.[38]

Again, like I said, the 90s were terrible but it's been improving since (or rather was, I haven't looked at the latest date to see how the sanctions impacted this).

>>85924886
No, it will be Annihilation 3: Ooga chaka by Uncle Fester

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>>85925027
Why should I have civi8l discourse with a person posts wrong information and suffers from the Dunning–Kruger effect? You are the one who started with calling people autistic. Clearly you have some misgivings of your own.

>reasoned discourse
>4chan

Maybe you need to be more aware of your surroundings. I hate to think the school you went to, if 4chan is the only avenue you have for any meaningful discourse.

>>85924832
Warcraft had one for the new expansion rollout.

>>85925120
That's not going to get people talking with outrage like a good ol' race war will do

>>85922487
music itself is super capitalized, making the talent pool dry but doesn't mean it still doesn't make money for the people in charge

>>85925117
Your claims so far have been invalid. The constitutional crisis was not a civil war, you pompous ass. You don't even know about basic

>>85922943
you know they get their comics via diamond too right? there is literally no physical comics in america, from marvel or dc, that was not sold by diamond.

>>85925153
>"wrong information"

You have provided literally no valid counter-argument. I have stated facts and data.

And I will refer to people as autistic if they reply with meme posts to an actual discussion.

So, you're right, this is 4chan, I don't need to cite my sources or care about academic discourse: so go fuck yourself.

>>85925117
Your claims are shoddy. You thought the 1991 coup was a civil war. Have you read any books on Russian history?

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>>85925200
But your facts and data are wrong. So there is nothing to provide a counter-argument too.

>so go fuck yourself.
Getting triggered this easily. How new are you?

>>85925153
Notice he doesn't deny once that he has autism.
You're the reason autism is used as an insult.

>>85925178
If the most you can argue is that I was hyperbolic in using a term to defining one element of a subpoint in my argument, then you and I have different definitions of what constitutes invalidating a claim.

>>85923168
the government would investigate one big business being bought by another even if businesses of the same kind still exist outside of them because they fear they would be trying to make a monopoly
but Diamond isn't worth investigating how?

>>85925260
Calling the kettle black

>>85925021
Like western comics? hunh
Though i don't expect /a/ faggots to know their isn't only DC and Marvel comics out there
Image
Dark horse
web comics
franco-Belgian comics which is fucking huge on its own
IDW
ONI press
Valiant
Avatar press

>>85923469
>Marvel relaunches ever 6 months
>DC has an continuity clean even once every couple years
Yeah, but you start reading them and you can feel that the characters have a whole life of stories that came before. I started reading Green arrow and Green Lantern with rebirth. Never read it before. The authors assume readers know what a green lantern is. In Green Arrow, the betrayal of some characters is supposed to be painful but as a new reader, you don't those characters so it doesn't really pay off. I like them both but I don't think I would if I knew absolutely nothing about those comics.

>and stop saying DC and Marvel represents all comics you uneducated weeb.
They represent most comics, so of course, people will think about them when they talk about comics. Still, we're a lucky to have creator owned comics.

>>85925265
It wasn't hyperbolic. It was flat out wrong.

>>85925260
((you))

All this multipost shitposting

>>85925302
I can say for sure I don't have autism though.

>>85921382
>Giving page views

>>85925260
I understand this is 4chan, but I don't think I have to deny claims that I have autism because I type in complete sentences.

>>85925220
>>85925253
Again, if your only problem is with me using a hyperbole on a website not known for its academic standard, then we don't really have an issue here.

I have provided data. Sourced data (from Wikipedia because I'm not going to bring up textbooks for this). Nobody here has said "this data is wrong, Russia has in fact worsened significantly since 2000 and here's why". You just keep saying "your claims are wrong" without mentioning anything aside from me referring to the constitutional crisis as a civil war, which is pretty much an issue of semantics.

I've read (not bullshitting, actually have) several books on Russian history. I've taken classes on modern Russian politics and I live in Eastern Europe, so I know a fair bit just by growing up about my (almost) neighbors.

>>85925200
Are you really complaining about memes on 4chan?

>>85925347
>he thinks Anonymous is an username

Back to tumblr faggot.

>>85923787
Hi samefag,

and no, groups actually lose money from concerts. No one has ever turned a profit from touring. It is only used for exposure so they can make actual money from sales and product placement. If you think for a second that anyone ever made money touring and blasting all the money it takes to accomplish that they you seriously know shit about the entire music industry.

>>85925399
Doesn't know about ((you))

>>85925390
In retrospect I realize my mistake. I don;t mind memes, I shitpost here as much as anyone else, but this is in an area which I study so I automatically switched to a more formal discussion and was put off by what is standard 4chan culture.

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>>85920998
AUSSIE LEVEL BANTZ

>>85925388
I wasn't even answering to you lmao, you both have autism I guess.

>>85925322
That's because most people who want to get into comics knows the basis of the characters. Plus cape comics don't have the most complex stories and the rebirth issues took its time reintroducing those characters given them a quick summary.
>They represent most comics
So its fair to say shounen jump represents most manga because their properties are the most popular?

>>85925445
>more formal discussion and was put off by what is standard 4chan culture.

You are an idiot. Maybe you should have gone to an actually university instead of trying to fight people on 4chan.

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>300+ million population
>90% of artists off the street will never be able to find work

>>85925495
Like webcomics don't exist

>>85925449
The guy thinks he can have a meaningful discussion on 4chan. Obviously he doesn't have any other avenues.

>>85925491
I'm at a university right now, posting from my dorm as I pursue my master's degree. I got back from classes a few hours ago so I was still in formal academic discussion mode.

I fully agree that makes me an idiot.

>>85925495
not even 90%, 99%

>>85925438
>doesn't know how to greentext

You still here?

>>85925445
You should study more.>

>>85925529
>Still doesn't know about (you)

You still here?

>>85924722
And you know what would make the comics even more popular? I you could buy your issue of Hellblazer in the same store you bought the dvds of the tv show. Same with the wlaking dead.
I'm sure a lot of people who like the Fables' game or the Walking Dead 's one and wanted to read the comics didn't bother to go into a LCS and just ordered them on Amazon.

>>85925523
I have done the exact same thing, also in MA for humanities.

>>85925523
Your degree isn't even worth wiping your ass on.

>>85923657
>as long as some silly AAA publisher or dev does not throw so much money at their games they need to sell it in absurd amount of copies and cut it up into DLCs to make a decent profit.

I still can't believe EA killed Dead Space and fired everyone for not selling 5 million copies in its launch window.

>>85924202
Hey I can pull graphs out of my ass too anon, does not make any aspect of it true.

Tours are the backbone of the music industry and they are not going anywhere grandpa.

>>85925521
Sadly I do (as I said, I'm going to college, I'm talking about this shit daily).

I'm just used to, if I say something and someone argues the opposite, to answer (instead of calling people faggots). I realize that's pointless here, it was just basically instinct.

>>85925523
Let me guess, you are shitty Romanian.

>>85925608
>you could buy your issue of Hellblazer in the same store you bought the dvds of the tv show.
Barnes and Nobles
which is the only big book store left

>>85925654
Close but no. Also going to college in the states.

>>85925653
The extra () is for extra jewness.

>>85924680
>>85924722
The only one most people under 40 have heard about is the Walking Dead. And its comics sales are very good. It's what, Image most successful comic? Can you say that it is representative of every comics with an adaptation?

>>85924765
Yea that must be why we read about Demon Man with a costume that constantly has crossovers with the X-Men and is in a new event each and every summer where he fights other superheroes.

Or wait, no we don't because Hellboy is absolutely fucking nothing like a cape in any way and you never once read a single issue and are talking out of your ass...

>>85925740
So DC isn't capes?

>>85925347
>>85925438
>>85925586
>>85925586
>>85925653
>>85925692
>>85925751
>this many arguments over the proper form of [u]

>>85925006
I tend to go by presence of a superhero instead of the lack of one.

>>85925432
kek

the medium has been dying since the 50s
CCA destroyed any comic that wasn't superheroes, forcing a large number of horror, and romance fans
of course we know the censorship would be phased out eventually, but at this point comics would have pretty much been known for superheroes
then we had them moving comics out of newsstands to be exclusively at specially shops for one reason or another
and then we have what we have today with mass media being so prevalent no one has any reason to turn to comics

>>85925028
Not all mangas are weeb bullshit, no wait they really are.

Get the fuck back to /a/ anon, we want to talk about comics now

>>85925730
Saga collected editions outsells the walking dead

>>85924832
They're called podcasts now.
The itunes store is filled with audio dramas, and surprisingly most are bad.
The Adventure Zone is really good though

>>85925771
What constitutes a cape comic?

>>85925495
>97% are complete shit at art

>>85920998
What's Bendis' response?

>>85924597
The problem is you don't know the history of comic publishing. Comics used to be huge and they didn't start dying when video games showed up. They started dying BEFORE then. Getting pushed into specialty stores is what caused the market to begin stagnating with a readership that has steadily dwindled since the CCA came into being.

>>85925848
That's an absurdly simplistic viewpoint of the history of the medium. Sure, the variety has been dying, but even before the CCA, no comics were ever as popular as they were in the boom period in between the late 60s-early 80s.

>>85925740
Who is Etrigan?

>>85925989
Fuck yourself anon, that constitutes a cape comic

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>>85925857
Boy, you sure showed him with those hot opinions.
That will teach him to make a valid counterpoint in a civilized manner on /co/!

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>>85925120
Don't even joke about that mang.

>>85926138
and what exactly constitutes a cape comic? going by your definition any sci-fi action is cape.

>>85925096
Then you trade wait the portion you do want. Besides, most consumers are dumb and follow characters instead of creators.

>>85922487
Record companies are struggling. Artists worked out that you're better off touring since you don't need to cut your record company in on it

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>>85920998
>So the next time some Uncle Fester looking blowhard motherfucker

>>85925641
I never said tour would disappear. I never said live music wasn't important for a musician.
I'm saying that saling records is what made the music industry so big. It's where they got their biggest revenue. Now that they struggle with records sales, there's a lot more marchandises in concert and concert's ticket cost more (if a group have the fans to afford the increase in pricing).

And if you don't want to believe an article which uses the Recording Industry Association of America as a source, there's nothing I can say that will convince you. Stay in the dark...

>>85926414
No I'm just not going to believe your bullshit since it is objectively wrong.

>>85926308
>you don't need to cut your record company in on it
Artist negociated with the record companies so that most if not all of the merchandising revenues would be theirs. It wasn't granted.

>>85926405
I miss tyrone

>>85926599
He's gone?

>>85926615
meme is dead like 2 years ago

>>85926543
That's when tours are sponsored by record companies. Which is why a number are going the indie route. Get your new record funded through pledge music or self fund if you can afford it, pump out limited deluxe editions to sell to your hardcore audience for 100+ a pop, cover recording costs, go touring and split nothing with the recording companies.

Fucking Hanson of all groups are still going strong after all these years through that method alone

>>85921167
The Marvel brand is plastered all over billion dollar movies and is run by The Mouse.

They'd have the money if they cared.

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>>85921483
>Miura draws up a chapter every 5yrs for instance

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>>85925108
Sorry brohan but i only know she is from a Kpop group.
Have some Momo from Twice as a consolation.

>>85920702
>Can you imagine if Coca-Cola's strategy to get you to buy soda was to guilt trip you into believing they'll have to cancel Sprite

not enough of you faggots bought Sprite Remix and now it's gone forever

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>>85930491
>all those Fanta flavors lost to history

>>85930491
Fuck that shit! What about Coke Blak and Black Cherry Vanilla?!

And on a completely different tangent, fuck Doritos for getting rid of their best flavor: Blazin' Buffalo and Ranch. That Ranch Dipped Hot Wings bullshit in their Jacked line doesn't even come close.

>>85920735
>the dying print industry
if i`mnot mistaken, webcomics also are losing a great chunck of they readership right?
so the digital market isn´t doing so well either

>>85920702
>This shit wouldn't fly in any other industry,
Well, videogames.

>>85921138
Mods are huge Marvelfags

>>85923531
No one said anything about life expectancy. We're talking about economics.

>>85923830
this jude nigga is the best journalist writing about comics today

>>85924567
that was pre-WWI nigga

>>85920687
I used to post things like that for a long time.
Comic book industry must burn
TO the ground

Okay.
Here's the problem.

People seem to think the article is rallying against basic supply/demand.

If you stop buying a thing, they'll stop making that thing, yes. That's true.

But that's not what the article is about.

The article is about using the fan's love of the characters against them to keep a book afloat regardless of that book's quality. He's saying, in the end, it doesn't matter how good a book actually is, so the quality is only going to get worse.

The new Green Lantern book (just pulling a name out of my ass) sucks right now, right? But you can't stop buying it, because then we'll stop producing GL books, and you'll never see if it gets better!
The book sucks, but it's somehow your fault if it fails. You see how that works? You see how that's bullshit?