>black fusion of Reed Richards and Superman >family of

>>85815296
Because the only black characters they ever put any sort of push behind are ones that are taking up the mantle of a white character. But you have a pretty great idea.

I think Marvel is hesitant to push their Not-Superman characters for some reason.

and probably no one but Ewing cares about him.

i want ewing/rocafort to get a miss america book personally

>>85815296
He'd never sell, at least not yet.

>>85815296
The Ultimates are pretty much the new F4. They are getting used a lot as of late and got a relaunch despite selling pretty low. It could be they are just playing to Ewing though and not really caring about the team.

>>85815296
I like his new attire with the vest instead of the superman-esque costume.

Also, yes for more Monica Rambeau

>>85815296
The Ultimates is basically Fantastic Four + The Authority.

>>85815526

no you're actually kinda totally right. they're totally using Ultimates as the boundary pushing adventurers that the F4 were, only with a reason for superhero fights.

>>85815556
>>85815526
I wonder how long until they restructure Ultimates into Fantastic Four.

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Oh and he's the godfather for a newborn watcher.

>>85815572
well if Miss America leaves the team after attacking Carol probably not long.

>>85815296
Blue Marvel always struck me as the worst type of Mary Sue, the author insert/wish fulfillment kind.

He doesn't have Superman's implacable morality, Sentry's questionable sanity, Guardian's mohawk - he's a completely bland Superman rip-off.

Just looking at his wiki page is cringe:

>former fullback at Cornell University
>a veteran of the Korean War
>a member of the Marine Corps with two Silver Stars
>genius-level intellect
>retconned to have created the first bridge to the Negative Zone, long before Reed
>powers and power level is at the point where he can do pretty much anything
>BEST SUPERHERO EVER but forced to retire because he was black

This always read like a shitty self-insert fic to me, and lo and behold, apparently his creator came up with the idea as a kid.

Fuck Blue Marvel, Marvel has so many more interesting non-Supermen who aren't shitty Mary Sues.

>>85816000

He's pretty much the most DC character in Marvel.

And Superman is pretty much a mary sue as well, that's why they add stuff like him not always being a boy scout. At his core, Superman is a god trying to be a human.

Blue Marvel is a god trying to be a scientist. IIRC he didn't even want to be a superhero for a while and just isolated himself.

>>85815713
Why is Obama smiling at an ayylmao?

>>85816000
>>85816112
>I don't know what a Mary Sue is
Then maybe you shouldn't be using the term.

>>85815445
>miss america book
Gross

>>85816164

Come on, we all know what it originally meant.

>>85816000
I can't wait for the disney money to run out & Marvel then has to craft viable ideas.

>>85815445
What is the appeal of Miss America aside from her body

>>85816209
>what it originally meant
Which is still what it means. Using a term wrong doesn't alter its definition.

>>85815296
I really like him. Or maybe it's just that I've only read him in Ewing books and I generally like those.

>>85815402
Isn't black panther marvel's third highest selling cape book?

>>85816243
>I can't wait for the disney money to run out
You'll be waiting a very long time.

>>85816000
>BEST SUPERHERO EVER but forced to retire because he was black
You could have just skipped the rest of the bullshit you typed and just got to your actual problem with this character

>>85816308
Not that guy but I like her powers and feel like Ewing could write a good story around her "If I act like a bitch nobody will sacrifice themselves to save me" logic, plus multiverse hopping can pull interesting situations.

>>85816366
>>85816366
The anons used the term somewhat loosely, sure, but how were they wrong?

"Superman is a Mary Sue" is such a common sentiment it's practically a meme at this point, and BM is just Superman without the morality wank.

Hell, the original (1976 Star Trek) definition states: "Mary Sue stories—the adventures of the youngest and smartest ever person to graduate from the academy and ever get a commission at such a tender age. Usually characterized by unprecedented skill in everything from art to zoology, including karate and arm-wrestling."

Look at >>85816000 description, all of that (college success, great intellect, vast skills, etc.) fits. You're being a pedant for no reason.

>>85816243
>Disney money
>run out
Your grand kids will die of old age before that happens.

>>85816425
>actual problem with this character
Goddamnit it, this place is really /co/mblr.

I don't mind black characters, you dick, and I don't mind black Supermen either. That was not and is not my primary objection to the character (that would be that he is overpowered and has no interesting or unique angle to him).

But it's a fact (the author said so himself) that this was based on a childhood idea of his, and it really reads like that (best at everything, genius, veteran, athlete), and in order to retcon him into the MU the author made up the excuse that he was forced to retire because he was black. Considering that in the IRL 60s we had black heroes published (Black Panther, Falcon) it just reads like a weak justification. That was my problem with it.

Not that he's fucking black, you cunt.

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A rip off made for a cartoon was done better.

>>85816209
And yet 95% of the people here use it to mean "Character I don't like."

>>85816000
Yeah I got the same impression after reading it in a story time here a couple of years ago.

The character feels like he was written by an angry black guy.

>>85816436
Her powers are being a generic flying brick which a shit ton of other characters have, and multiverse hopping doesn't even matter much in the Marvel universe's' current state.

Sure they can bullshit up a reason to need her, but if BM's going to replace Reed then he should be able to whip up a gadget to do America's job easy.

>>85816594

> in order to retcon him into the MU the author made up the excuse that he was forced to retire because he was black. Considering that in the IRL 60s we had black heroes published (Black Panther, Falcon) it just reads like a weak justification. That was my problem with it.

great two examples, one of which is a foreign king.

>>85816697
And yet that's 95% of the same defense that fans of a Mary Sue use.

>>85816190
It's amazing how a young hot Latina lesbo managed to be such a repugnant character.

>>85816418
I think there's a distinction to be made because Panther sells partially because he's been around for awhile and partially because of Civil War. Same argument for Luke Cage. But in comparison to the newer heroes. I don't see him that much at all. The only thing that really stands out is that Panther Buster at the end of Hulk. And that's him showing up in some place that's not needed. His book has been very insulated so far. And maybe a few lines in Captain Marvel. As compared to Miles. who's in Ms Marvel and Gwen pool and is also in captain Marvel. And the adds for him and Spider-Gwen. Then he's a member of ANAD. Marvel PUSHES Miles on viewers, Marvel PUSHES Ms Marvel on viewers, Marvel PUSHES Spidergwen on viewers. Panther is just an established character that is currently getting some limelight from the upcoming movie. As we get closer to the Netflix Cage series I'm sure we'll see the same with him. But that is trying to make money off of a popular character as in comparison to trying to get a mediocre character to make money or become popular.

>>85816000

>Just looking at his wiki page
>not caring about the stories

for fucks sake

>>85816697

It's now just used on characters with no flaws and nothing but massive positives. Words get new or altered meanings, so can slang, so can memes.

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>>85815296

I actually really like the Blue Marvel. As others state he's a scientist that would prefer to continue inventing and exploring than constantly be thrust back into superheroics.

He fills a similar role as to Superman (and something Reed Richards has difficulty with at times): he's the 'father.' The guy you go to for sound advice, security and the one that is looking out for others.

So I really enjoy the character and hope he continues to mesh with the rest of the MU.

>>85816418
>>85816844

Also Black Panther has a huge name writing it.

>>85816795
movinggoalposts.jpg

If the entire premise of BM is that black superheroes were fundamentally unacceptable to the general public, then it fucking fails if we had two black superheroes openly work - not only save the day, but join the Avengers!

And it's not like "oh well he was an Avenger, they wouldn't criticize him" is a thing either, Avenger lineup changes get criticized constantly. Hell, the Kooky Quartet was apparently met with substantial suspicion according to some stories.

It doesn't matter if there were 2 or 52. Even one is enough to blow the whole idea of "well we can't have black superheroes".

>>85816893
Very true

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>>85816753
I was speaking in regards to a solo run with her, so BM making a device that can do that wouldn't matter.
>multiverse hopping doesn't even matter much in the Marvel universe's' current state.
It doesn't have to matter to the greater marvel universe just her own story. Flying bricks are common but multiverse hopping isn't, and Ewing has been pretty creative with it, like the stuff with venom in CoC, the explanation of how it works and giving it limits, this part with monica was good.

>>85816858
"Just looking at his wiki page is cringe" means "even a cursory glance is enough to evoke cringe."

Doesn't mean "anon hasn't read a single story but dislikes the character", just that you can see the flaws straight away.

>>85816954

So baseball discrimination ended with Jackie Robinson? Jack Johnson ended racism in the boxing ring?

>>85816000
Maybe read some comics instead of reading wikipedia entries ABOUT comics.

>>85816308

Cool powers, cool attitude, she's different from a lot of heroes, potential of being a reality jumper on a personal level is a ton of material.

>>85817025
What are you even saying?

The premise behind Black Marvel is that, despite all his good work, he can't continue being a superhero because he's black. It's not "I can't support you" or "you'll face challenges", which would historically likely be true, it's a hard no.

The fact that there were other black heroes written in the 60s and they went along mostly unopposed (let alone to the degree Brashear encountered) means that his retirement is ludicrous. Either Kennedy had something against Brashear personally (which the story rejects, apparently they got along well), or the author doesn't understand that black superheroes were a thing even back then.

You can move the goalposts all you want, the fact remains: that's a dumb asspull with no basis in 616 canon that was used to justify inserting a character into its past just because it was the author's pet project.

There was no need for that, Brashear would have worked fine being introduced in the present day, the whole 60s thing is pointless.

>>85816954
This is actually an addressed plot point. Luke Cage and Blue Marvel have had some BIG disagreements about BM basically just hiding away all those years when he could've been doing some good.

It's not that there can't ever be black heroes. It's just that some of the earlier guys became disillusioned with all the existing racism they experienced and want to do their own things their own way out of the spotlight.

>>85815296
He's too bages for this world anon

>>85817065
I've read comics (though not all) about Blue Marvel. Please direct me to comics which would make me reevaluate my problems with the character (overpowered even for cape standards, has no interesting hook [and no, 'likes science' is not an interesting hook, that's probably a quarter of Marvel's A-listers], too good at too many things).

I'm not being sarcastic - I'd appreciate a recommendation that would paint him in a better light. But the comics I've read so far have all been decidedly bland on his part.

>>85817193
>baged
Based anon my bad

>>85817209
I second this.

He's a dull as dishwater Sentry knockoff with no balancing flaws. I'm glad he plays well with the identity politics crowd, but I'm not sold.

>>85816472
A gigantic aspect of the Mary Sue that that definition doesn't take into account is how other characters react to the character in question. They need to either love the character unconditionally and for the simple reason that the character exists or, if they don't, it's because they are horrible people and in no way the character's fault. Both Supes and BM are generally regarded in much more realistic fashion.

But even going by the original definition, they aren't. Age isn't really relevant in this case, so let's consider power. Are they strong? Yes. Are they the absolute most powerful beings in existence for no other reason than because the writer wants them to be? No. Flying bricks are a dime a dozen. And in the Marvel universe, "polymath supergenius" is nothing special other than the story saying it is. The negative zone bridge retcon is a Sue-ish aspect, sure but that doesn't make Adam one. Likewise, we're told that Clark is as smart as a supercomputer (which is racial anyway and since he's not the only Kryptonian that pretty much eliminates any element of it being a thing special and unique to him), but how often is that actually shown? How regularly in the bronze age and afterwards has the plot hinged on Superman performing mental feats that no ordinary human could accomplish?

tl;dr
Overpowered stats!=Mary Sue, especially when those stats work in the context of the story.

>>85816864
See >>85816366

>>85816112
Supermans the opposite he's a man dealing with being a god

>>85817301

He's much better than Sentry and his "I'm going crazy or am I" plot

>>85817066
>cool attitude
Sassy spicy Latina lesbian isn't very cool, they're actually super fucking annoying. I would know, I live in Southern California and deal with a few frequently.

>>85817209
That was my problem with retconned Carol Danvers, but she's edging back towards lawful neutral/fascist mode again so there's at least hope of her being interesting once more. Blue Marvel? He's been pretty boring overall.

>>85817419

different opinions gonna differ!

>>85816418
Panther is African, he didn't grow up with American racism, so he doesn't count.

>>85817350
As much as I like linguistical prescriptivism (and I unironically do), the majority of the people these days DO think overpowered stats = Mary Sue. The issue of how other characters regard them, whether they have unique physical traits, whether they're orphans or too young etc. (which were all traits of Mary Sues in mid 00s fanfiction) have largely fallen by the wayside over "is this character basically invincible."

I'm afraid you're tilting at windmills, fair anon.

>>85817350
>85817350
>Overpowered stats!=Mary Sue, especially when those stats work in the context of the story.

Fine, what are the relateable, suspense building flaws that allow me to identify with Mr All Powerful, All Knowing Science Tank?

>>85817433
I guess so, call it a trigger if you will but irl those bitches tend to be crazy and none too likeable, so I can't see one in fictional media without being at least a little instinctively repulsed.

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>>85815296
>one son is a supervillain
I keep seeing people (same person?) say this, but didn't he supervillain son go straight-ish a year ago?

>>85817403
The Incredible Hulk payed for his power by becoming a submoronic beast who frenzied at the slightest provocation. He was one of the most hated & feared heroes around.

The She Hulk is a brilliant gorgeous party girl who's wealthy, influential, & gets to fight on many, many teams.

One is interesting, the other is a total mary sue.

One is a heroes whose suffering & rage has led to a storied movie career.

The other can't even get a cameo on Netflix.

I'll let you guess.

>>85817655

>storied movie career

that's a stretch

also she hulk isn't a mary sue, she's created so marvel had the rights to she hulk before someone else grabbed them

>>85817491
He can't solve everything. He has a team because other people can do certain things better than. Hell, he can barely keep that team working together.

A Mary Sue is the most godawful, insufferable thing to read. They make multiple characters that work in close proximity to them useless and don't actually add anything to the world of the story. As >>85816891 said, Marvel didn't really have an iconic, godlike paternal figure before that other characters could look up to. The closest thing was Captain America, but there are things he can't do in a story that BM can (and vice versa) because of the difference in powersets. Thor is too much of a frat boy, Sentry's unstable, and Hyperion needs guidance as much as the people who would be asking him for it.

>>85817475
Meh, imo that just makes It all the more the job of the learned to show the ignorant the error of their ways.

>>85817491
He was kind of a shit dad to his second son because he was too busy going on science adventures with his oldest son. Said second son became a supervillain out of resentment.

He lost his first son in the Neutral Zone and hasn't been able to figure out a way to rescue him.

He's more than a little sanctimonious at times, which brings him into conflict with teammates.

>>85817620
Is joining AIM ever really 100% going straight? Even if it is run by Sunspot. He's more morally ambiguous. He doesn't hesitate to do evil super science, but Big Boss Da Costa is steering him in the right direction.

>>85817774

Mockingbird and maybe other books have shown splinter groups of A.I.M. that are still evil

>>85817774
>85816893
Ok, that's mild start.

Tony Stark had a weak heart. He is an abrasive alcoholic whose close personal relationships disintegrate. He's failed at business many times. Out of his armor, he's just a normal dude who can be killed like the rest of us.

Superman has Kryptonite & a vulnerability to magic.

What physical flaws/weaknesses make BM's fights more suspenseful?

>>85815445
>I think Marvel is hesitant to push their Not-Superman characters for some reason.

They apparently push Carol pretty damn hard.

>>85815713

Blue Marvel looks high as shit.

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>>85818214

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>>85818214
>>85818234

>>85817709
Yes, she's a trademark holder for Marvel.

Also, she's tanked hits from Sentry like they were nothing. According to Marvel's own website, her strength is incalculable. She's beaten Thor twice. She face rolls over her arch nemesis all the time. Doesn't Frenzy anymore. "And? And? And?" ring any bells?

Right now, she's a text book mary sue.

>>85818085
Doesn't he generally fight against people who are already strong enough to be on even footing with him?

>>85818257
So you just don't know who Stilt Man is, then?

>>85818125
Because she's Not-Wonder Woman, duh.

>>85817620
He still refers to himself as a supervillain and does mad science for AIM.

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>>85818256

>>85818125
>They apparently push Carol pretty damn hard.
Well she's a not-Wonder Woman character.

Emphasis on 'Woman' part. Supermen in today's age seem to be passe. People now want powerful, independent female characters and Marvel has relatively few of them (that they own movie rights to).

>>85818466
>people want
apparently not given they relaunched her like three times and the best she's done is consistent 30k. her legacy even does better than her.

>>85817136
I think the problem in universe was about Blue Marvel being both black and as powerful as he is(most Black heroes at Marvel for a long time were relatively low on the power scale in comparison)

>>85818342
Did he even fight Thanos when Carol threw the C Lister party? Is mentally locking up a flaw he possesses? I keep hearing great things about him, America & Monica Rambeau.

Medusa, War Machine & Shulkie were there & got in over their heads.

Does Blue Marvel even have an arch nemesis who is a threat? Batman the Joker, Mr Freeze, & Poison Ivy. Superman has a totally ruthless Krytonite chucking billionaire to hassle him.

I'm just saying BM needs some to make his fights more compelling. It's the only way sales with increase. Heroes with no/weak problems just don't cut it.

>>85818342
Or more. Blue Marvel is strong, but he wasn't "solo Shuma-Gorath, Galactus or a Beyonder" strong. The most even fight we've seen him do was against King Hyperion. He may have beat him, but they were about on par.

Even on the Ultimates, he isn't the strongest member. Monica is, plus Carol can absorb Monica for a power boost.

>>85818553

>being both black and as powerful as he is

this is a great point.

>>85818393
Yes, a jobber whose feces were pushed in quite handily by La Walters.

The Punisher ended up killing him I think...

No real loss.

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>>85818584
>Does Blue Marvel even have an arch nemesis who is a threat?
Anti-man

>>85818457
>ywn read the ongoing adventures of Edgar Allen Poe-esque Falcon
JUST

>>85818669
I'm going to bed. That's the stupidest thing I've seen since Slott's Regent.

>>85818669

i had no idea this dude was a Micronaunts joke until I saw like IDW or whoever pushing the franchise.

fucking ewing da god

>>85815296
God that art is atrocious. Look at the white lining on his legs, they look like a solid brace locking his legs in place. They don't follow his musculature at all.

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>>85818669
>>85818700
Anti-Man is pure.

>>85818584
They had a plan for that fight, but it got fucked up and that's what led to the loss of War Machine.

Also, y'know, Bendis.

>>85818728

>The Jailer

I'm so hype for who put Eternity in chains and that plot

>>85816112
>Superman is a god trying to be a human

This meme needs to die. Superman WAS FUCKING RAISED ON EARTH.

>>85818829
The jailer he's referring to is Brian Michael Bendis. Bendis. The writer. Who writes comics. Yes. Bendis.

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>>85818214
>>85818234
>>85818256

Wait, wrong page.

>>85815445
>Miss America book by Ewing
I like the way you think, anon

>>85819104
>>85818214
>>85818234
>>85818256

Why is Luke Cage such a whiny pussy in everything I see him in?

>>85818466
>People now want powerful, independent female characters

Shame none of those people care about actual powerful independent female characters.

>>85819264
Pussy whipped.

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>>85819066
>The "worlds" are other books
>Eternity represents good stories
>Jailer is Bendis
>Galactus represents writers who have to work with the shit Bendis gives them and correct it the best they can
>Anti-Man represents readers who know what's going on but can't actually do anything to fix it
It fits.

Saying Blue Marvel is a bad character because you read his mini's plot on the wiki makes no sense.
When someone says they like BM they probably mean they liked him in Mighty Avengers, Captain America and the Mighty Avengers and Ultimates.

>>85816000
>>BEST SUPERHERO EVER but forced to retire because he was black

That part doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Given Blue Marvel's powerset, why wouldn't he tell the U.S. government to fuck off? And even if you're racist as fuck, you've got a superweapon, why force him into retirement?

Reed plus Superman is too god damned much. Speaking of which, you might as well write the adventures of young god.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=13d_1217501695

>>85820036
>the adventures of young god
I would totally read a Franklin Richards ongoing.

>>85820129
>I would totally read a Franklin Richards ongoing.

Same, but only if they let him age up to where he should be - preteen. Let the kid grow up a bit more. People tend to write him like he's 7-9. This little brat has been around since '68! Dude should be wondering why all his same age female friends are hitting puberty and looking hotter.

>>85819264

Bendis and Jessica Jones have fucked him over

>>85816891
Man, that image and its backstory never fails to bring a smile to my face.

>>85819337
What is that even from

also what are some good Blue Marvel comics

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>>85825095
That picture is from Ewing's Ultimates, and it's honestly the only thing I've enjoyed Blue Marvel in.

>>85818457
God I wish Ewing was writing FalCap.

I also wish Valerio Schiti wasn't on Bendi books.

>>85815296
They don't own Superman, so they can't make "there is a new Supeman and he is black!" clickbait
They could try the "Marvel's most powerful super hero is a black man" approach, but not sure that would work (especially when they already have the strongest one there is ith Chulk and earth's mightiest hero with Captain Iwearpantsnow)
There is just a lot less appeal if the non-white-male hero doesn't get to conquer a famous name that belonged to a white-male hero

>>85820129
>current Doom goes back in time and brings Young Reed to the present to convince the Maker to stop being evil

>>85815296
> BooHoo, I have this headcanon about what Marvel's big bad motivations are and reality isn't conforming to these expectations!

>Do I consider the possibility that my conspiracy theory is wrong? HELL NO!

>Help me everybody! You're my only hope! Explain how my Marvel conspiracy theory can still be true!

>>85816000
>the author insert/wish fulfillment kind.

probably because he is.

>Grevioux says he first had the idea for the character as a child, when he realized that "in the panoply of powerful superheroes out there like Thor, Superman and Shazam!, there was never really a comparable black superhero who was both iconic and could vie with them on that upper-echelon physical level.

http://www.mtv.com/news/2592775/underworld-screenwriter-kevin-grevioux-tackles-racism-in-adam-legend-of-the-blue-marvel/

>>85815759
I want Carol to leave.

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>>85829347
>in the panoply of powerful superheroes out there like Thor, Superman and Shazam!, there was never really a comparable black superhero who was both iconic and could vie with them on that upper-echelon physical level.

A fair argument

But Icon was a MUCH more creative and original take on how to introduce one than 'Give Reed Richards superman powers and make him black'


>be advanced alien that crashlands on earth
>in order to blend take the form of first life form you see
>happen to be african-american slave in the south decades before the Civil War
>go through the generations knowing first-hand the struggles blacks have gone through in this country
>never aging and always assuming the identity of his 'son' throughout each generation to blend in until such a time humanity's tech matches his crashed pod
>don't use your superpowers until the modern day when you're convinced by a young thief breaking into your house persuades you

Icon is pretty damn interesting in concept alone

>>85829469

Agreed that it is a cool concept

>be advanced alien that crashlands on earth
>in order to blend take the form of first life form you see
>happen to be african-american slave in the south decades before the Civil War
>go through the generations knowing first-hand the struggles blacks have gone through in this country

But not actually black.

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>>85829556
...

Well you got me there.

But by that argument it can be said Superman and Thor aren't actually white.

>>85829655
Depends, More than likely with Thor, definitely comicbook Thor. But there are enough occasions of black Kryptonians that I think Supes can be Identified as a white Kryptonian. Although I'm not sure that there planet had any issues with prejudice or discrimination.

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>>85829699
Well the Black Kryptonians were all in Kryptonian Africa but allegedly on good terms with White Krypton but not apart of their club so it sounds iffy but there's no real evidence of Krypton having any racial issues.
But ultimately they're neither Black or White just APPEAR so the same Icon. However the real deciding difference isn't that they're "passing aliens" but that Icon has initial experience as a being other than a black man even if he has lived "several lives" as black men, Clark has only experienced life as a white man.

>>85816000
He was made into a good characters by Al Ewing because the good traits were there, but Kevin Grievioux is an absolute hack and the original mini was terrible.
>captcha: 616

>>85825095
Ewing's Mighty Avengers/Captain America and the Mighty Avengers, and Ewing's Ultimates. Also, he showed up in Ewing's Contest of Champions, although it definitely isn't about him.
Ewing's the only guy who gives two shits about him, in case you hadn't guessed.

>>85818256
But I DINDU.

>>85820673
Pretty sure he's 15 or so as it sits. Though some writers probably aren't aware of it, and still write him as if he's younger.

Without someone on editorial who actually cares about continuity details, things like this tend to slip.

Then again, he's outside the multiverse with his family at present fixing shit, so it's a moot point.

>>85818945
>WAS FUCKING RAISED ON EARTH

Where nothing can hurt him and he has absolute unquestionable power over the lives of all those around him.

He's a god. By the time he was eighteen he was powerful enough to destroy the planet if he ever felt like it.

Superman is a nice guy, but both in mindset and capability he is pretty much a deity. He's the very archetype of what a bunch of dudes thought was right and good. His ability to stand by these beliefs and enact them is what define him. He's the god of truth, justice, and the American way, according to Joe Shuster and Jerry Siegel.

FFS they even put 'El' in his name. El as in 'god'.

The term Mary Sue really needs to be retired because it has lost its original meaning.

Just because you dislike a character or think the character is overpowered does not mean the character is a Mary Sue.

>>85815296
>why not force Blue Marvel on anyone
Blue Marvel was the biggest thing for a time, didn't go well for him.

Blue Marvel is boring.

He is so smart, so powerful, and with today's atmosphere black enough to not be a flawed human.

Give me the Ultimate book without him. I can't give a shit about his nemesis outside the universe and whatnot. Honestly give me the gals taking on shit.

>>85816000

Trips of truth.

Lotta marcucks really defensive about their ______ mary sue

>>85816000
>Just looking at his wiki page
You are the cancer killing /co/

Blue Marvel's fucking great. Wish Ewing gave him a solo along with him being in the Ultimates.

File: 1552489-mu_strength_chart___1981__as_annual_15_.jpg (234KB, 527x1920px) Image search: [Google]

234KB, 527x1920px

>>85818553
>>85818611
This.
Are people really mad because Grievoux integrated the top tier of the strength chart?

>>85833324
Who's the Jesus guy in mediumweights?

>>85833369
Wundarr the Aquarian

>>85816112
>Superman is pretty much a mary sue
Never post again.

>>85829469
And Icon's co-creator was insistent that his conservatism was at the core of the character, and that couldn't be tampered with.

>>85817136
>>The premise behind Black Marvel is that, despite all his good work, he can't continue being a superhero because he's black.
_AND_ because he was INCREDIBLY POWERFUL.
The other black heroes(which, by sliding timescale, weren't actually active until DECADES later) were almost all low-level superhumans.
Blue Marvel could had realistically toppled governments.

Also, again: SLIDING TIMESCALE. Now there weren't heroes in the 60s except BM.
Also, I like Ewing playing with the fact he's a later addendum to the continuity....

>>85818466
Those "people" don't read comics so who cares what they want?

Why doesn't Marvel just bring back the FF instead?

>>85833324
Spider-Man must've been drunk to put himself in the same strength class as She-Hulk, Colossus, and Silver Surfer lol. In fact, those 3 need to be in the top 2 categories.

>>85833952
back then they were all 20-tons class with their normal strength.

Most of them got various power-up over the years: Colossus growing up, She-Hulk training(that's pre-F4 She-Hulk. Once in the F4, Jen started browsing /fit/ with Reed's time-computer), Silver Surfer always been able to rise his strength with Cosmic Power, Luke Cage being written by Bendis, etc.

>>85833324
I'm not a huge Marvel fan. I can name a few but I would appreciate a list of names if anyone is able.

>>85816594
I didn't care for BM's recon into the universe (everyone just magiclly forgot that a superman tier hero existed?) but his reasons for stopping made sense.

BM operated prior to all the mainstream heroes. He was superman tier hero fighting during the height of the civil rights movement.

Publishing black heroes is worlds different than an actual black hero who does nothing to further the equal treatment of his people. As analogy I like to watch Steven universe but would be freaked the fuck out if SU actually occurred in real life.

>>85834154
>everyone just magically forgot that a superman tier hero existed?
This is Marvel citizens we are talking about. Unless it's hating Mutants, they forget everything that happens in the world.

>>85834154
>everyone just magiclly forgot that a superman tier hero existed
That is quite literally Sentry's origin.

>>85829556
Technically true, but the concept would be pretty damn cool to work with. As you'd have a character who was from actual slaverly dealing with a country struggling to come to grips with "lesser" issues.

And it beats magically forgotten any day.

>>85830244
Did Icon ever become non black during his time on Earth? If not his race authenticity would be no different than Clarks. Only difference is he would have always had the escape button he could press for an easier life.

>>85834396
Good point. I keep wanting to give them some credit.

>>85834504
Which is why its shit. The only major differences is that he didn't drink his powers from a potion and there is no McMuffin to explain why everyone forgot. Its literately "I retired and black superman is forgotten until Tony checks the old news reels".

>>85816000
trips of truth, anyone who disagree with this is a retarded heretic

KEK APPROVES OF YOUR POST

>>85834598
>Did Icon ever become non black during his time on Earth?
No but there was an issue where Rocket imagined what would happen if Icon became white.

>>85834672
>KEK APPROVES OF YOUR POST
Retard stamp of approval.

>>85833324
>Surfer and BB are weaker than Iron Man and Herc
>Colossus on Spidey's level
Even for bronze age BB is the strongest one there. Was Gru drunk when he tiered these?

>>85835385
Colossus wasn't really big on huge feats of strength. Silver Surfer has the power cosmic, it doesn't mean he's phyisically powerful. Same with Black Bolt. And BB got crazy power creep over the last 15 years.

>>85835385
Black Bolt's STANDARD strength is that.
He, like, Silver Surfer, can actively augment his physical power, but it's not his actual physical strength

>>85833912
They can't make any real money off of them because they don't have the movie rights. They'd rather bury their most historic franchise than advertise for Fox.

>>85834116
From left to right;
Hulk, Thor, Hercules, Wonder Man, Iron Man
The Thing, Namor, Doc Samson, Sasquatch, Vision, Thundra, Black Bolt
Valkyrie, She-Hulk, Luke Cage, Goliath/Giant Man (Bill Foster), Silver Surfer, Colossus, Ghost Rider, Spiderman
Tigra, 616 Nighthawk?, Man-Wolf, Spider-Woman, Beast, Wundarr the Aquarian, Captain Britain?
Falcon, ?, Iron Fist, Black Panther, Captain America, Moon Knight, Daredevil, ?, Wolverine, Hawkeye

>>85835483
If anything, he's been nerfed. The reason he kept silent was originally because his voice was so powerful it would blow up the moon. These days it's limited to like a few blocks' worth of damage and essentially nonlethal. And it's the only power writers remember he has, so stuff like his matter manipulation don't exist anymore.

>>85835586
So it's literally just physical strength, not how powerful they are?

>>85835759
>So it's literally just physical strength, not how powerful they are?
Yes. The only weird part is Iron Man being in Super-Heavyweights as he himself states he can power-up to that level for a couple of seconds

>>85835586
I agree.
And I don't know why Iron Man was the only one whose amped up strenght was considered instead of the standard strenght

>>85835656
>Falcon, ?, Iron Fist, Black Panther, Captain America, Moon Knight, Daredevil, ?, Wolverine, Hawkeye
Ka-Zar and The Shroud are the other two

>>85835909
Danke

>>85835834
Because that's exactly the type of thing that Tony would do, he'd walk right up there with the big boys and act like he belongs there.

Marvel is clearly prepping the Ultimates as a Phase 4/5 MCU property assuming Fox never gives up the FF rights.

Marvel still has sooo much cosmic material to work with. This is an excellent post-Avengers superhero team.