Did "Civil War" ruin Cap's booming popularity

>>85615688
If anything Muh Bucky made him more popular with the women.

Overall, I am sure the twitter polls favoring Cap and #teamcap beating #teamironman speaks for itself.

Still Iron Man reigns supreme in China.

I know way more normies and comics fans alike who were on Cap's side.

>>85615688
>Iron Man reigns supreme in China.
They just like the colors.

>>85615830
>Overall, I am sure the twitter polls favoring Cap and #teamcap beating #teamironman speaks for itself.
Cool horseshit bro

>>85615688
When we left the theater my friend who has never read a comic book in his life said "I fucking hate Captain America hes a tyrant"

>>85618788
Your friend sounds like a faggot.

>>85618802
He is. He claims to read comic books and acts like he knows what he's talking about but didn't know who Amanda Waller was

>>85618788
Your friend sounds like a faggot

>>85615688
>MUH BUCKY
what about MUH MOMMY?
why does everyone give that a pass?

>>85615688
why? Cap is completely vindicated by the evetns of that film. Tony is the only one who was played like a damn fool.

>>85619098
No? Cap played right into Zemo's hand.

>>85619121
They all did. Zemo was counting on Stark to throw a tantrum over the video and attack an innocent man instead of apprehending a criminal that bombed the UN.

>>85615912
I rather say they dig the suit.

>>85615688
>using commas
if reading like a fucking click bait adticle was what you intended your post to be then okay.

>>85619488
He was there because he trusted Steve, who got baited hard.

>>85619098
Kek, Cap was a fascist and was wrong in everything but bucky being innocent.

Steve is the bully

>>85619577
How is Steve a fascist? He wants more freedom not less, he's foolishly idealistic if anything

>>85615688
yes, but it increased his popularity with tumblr fangirls

>>85619636
So did Hitler
But honestly, don't respond to bait.

>>85617245
You need to get out of that dank basement, Anon. Stucky is a very popular pairing on tumbluh and, yes, the Civil War twitter trends were way more in favor of Team Cap than Team Manlet.

>>85618788
One friend. Not a comic reader.

I'm sure the MCU and Marvel Comics bean counters are so sad.

>>85619867
Hitler wanted control anon. Just like "an Iron Suit all over the world" Stark did.

>>85619121
Stark did, dude. Just like he played into the hands of a convenient placed BECAUSE PLOT matronly woman who guilted him to sign a piece of paper when he was running around being, "Yeah, I don't play well with others" for three whole films.

>>85619867
"So did Hitler!"
- TJ Laser

Well, even without Bucky, the situation with Wanda was already insoluble for the Avengers.

Its IMHO likely that Carol will be introduced as Ross's placeman on the government Avengers team, which may even be renamed Thunderbolts due to the Avengers being despised by the public.

>>85619636
He supports an unaccountable secret lethal task force with no respect for international law whose doctrine is determined solely by his private moral standards.

>>85615912
>>85619526

One is a robot and the other has America in the name, go figure.

>>85615688
Not really, if anything, it lured in fujotards.

>mfw the writers said they are team Iron Man because you can't run away from your responsibilities
>mfw general audience is smart enough to realize this as well
>mfw only neckbeards and tumblr landwales are team Cap because muh Stucky or muh sixpack

>>85619636
He is authoritarian. Superheroes are authoritarian fantasy that one guy with good morals could fix the world if only someone gave him power and removed all the red tape.

It's not a realistic concept and it's better not examine it closely or it would fall apart.

>>85620504
That's more of a Agents of Shield type thing, they don't have the screen time to waste on that kind of shit.

The next avenger film is Thor, with him and Hulk. It will probably only have a passing reference to the accords or CW shit. Strange won't bother with it either and is not likely to really have much to do with all that. The cast doesn't include anyone, not even someone B or C like Ant Man or Falcon. GoTG 2 might have some infinity stone impact but that's about it. Black Panther will probably provide some update, maybe small resolution to Bucky since it makes sense and Stans has a nine picture deal with six more films on it.

So by Infinity Wars, they need Cap back on the team and everyone playing nice.

>>85621099
>He is authoritarian.
>Superheroes are authoritarian fantasy

This we term circular logic, tis a fallacy, friend Stark.

>>85621236
It's not circular. My argument does not loop.

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>>85621082
>general audience is smart enough

Cap being right relied on so much convenience and bullshit. If it wasn't for muh zemo he would have caused millions in damages and hurt many simply on a lark because my besties. Which is exactly what they were trying to prevent but muh military could be wrong or use us for misguided reasons or personal gain, he says while doing the exact thing on a whim and for personal gain, ignoring that the logic would then imply that Cap will always be right and infallible.

>>85621082
2/10 made me reply

>>85621298
Ross is the one who put out a kill on sight order on Bucky, violating due process

>>85621574
Because as far as he knew he was a murdering super soldier gone rogue. Sometimes you can't catch everyone alive or give a trial to somebody who could kill thousands with ease.

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>>85619098
Technically, Cap's the one that played directly into Zemo's hand, and his way of doing things is admirable, but also arrogant and selfish. Tony and his crew have the right idea, even if Tony himself is doing it for all the wrong reasons (and with the wrong superior to answer to.)

Besides, Cap REALLY should have told Tony about his parents, and don't give me that "He didn't know it was Bucky" bullshit; he definitely knew, even if he didn't want to believe it.

>>85621705
tony literally caused Ultron with his arrogance. How fucking dumb are tony fags?

>>85621727
It was an industrial accident.

Cap thinks he's infailable and the world should bow to his whim.

>>85621727
>with his arrogance

if you are a scientist you have to take risks, he just wanted to do research for the right reason (protect the earth)

>>85621778
>if you are a scientist you have to take risks
that's not the same as being an idiot

>>85621852
>that's not the same as being an idiot
Ultron was also a freak accident, and Tony took every precaution he could have. He wasn't just playing god or whatever people accuse him of doing, Jarvis accidentally created Ultron running mere simulations on the staff's AI's compatibility with the Iron Legion.

Yeah, he underestimated the staff, but it didn't happen because he was being careless. It happened because Ultron

>>85621882
>Tony took every precaution he could have.
like taking Bruce's advice into account? or discussing it first with his fellow teammates?

>>85621882
>It happened because Ultron was an actual life form inside of the staff.

>>85621901
>like taking Bruce's advice into account?
What advice? Bruce was along for the ride with mild skepticism

>>85619557
No. He was there because the NEWS footage that released, which Zemo called in the crime to have it released at the right time after the Avengers had been largely taken out by the Raft or Accords, lead Stark to realize Bucky was impersonated.
He then questioned Sam in the Raft who gave him the location.
Stark arrived as Zemo expected. He was baited like the rest.

>>85621705
>Technically, Cap's the one that played directly into Zemo's hand

Both of them did exactly what Zemo wanted. He knew Steve would want to protect Bucky AND stop a potentially world endangering threat. And he knew Tony would revel in his arrogance and ignorance until Zemo would drop the ball and reveal what happened to his parents and what would happen thusly. He played Steve and Tony both.

>>85619098
Cap was the fool. He knew that there was a villain behind the scenes and didn't tell Tony at the first chance, which would have prevented the airport battle altogether (since as soon as Tony discovered it on his own, he immediately went for a truce to catch the villain)

>>85621705
>Tony and his crew have the right idea
What, being grounded by corruptible authorities with individual, often contradicting agendas if not sent to subdue the only group investigating a rogue element who holds and is actively utilizing extremely sensitive information to setup terrorist bombings to kill authorities, assassinate and impersonate professionals, disable security systems at prisons with an EMP while activating an extremely dangerous MK Ultra agent?

This is the right idea? Just let someone like Zemo utilize HYDRA, SHIELD and Avengers files as he pleases while Ross fiddles himself over footage of the Avengers rotting in the Raft while doing dick to protect anyone? Do Team Tony fans really think Zemo and people like him were just going to quietly go away for the convenience of the Accords? The only reason HYDRA was even hiding is because Cap, Widow and Falcon forced them out of the shadows into their dens. They had facilities just waiting to use things like the Winter Soldiers given the opportunity. People do realize it was only even once Bucky was imprisoned and restrained in a location that could be compromised that Zemo could move on to his next step right? Had Steve and Bucky evaded arrest Zemo wouldn't have the Mission Report or HYDRA facility intel. He'd have the book, but he'd also have Falcon + two super soldiers on his ass.

They were mobilizing specifically because they knew how to manipulate the guilt ridden and negligent parties into inaction.

>>85622411
When informed of Zemo at the airport Tony is the one who said his patience was up and called in Peter to instigate things.

>>85621745
That's objectively wrong.

>butt hurt Tony fags

he finally got what was coming to him after 5 films

>>85622374
The real mistake was the unplanned deaths of the Wakandans.

That's the only reason they even gave a speech at the UN and got King T'chaka killed. Zola's planned-frame up after the planned public bombing in Lagos, drew Black Panther into the mix, and that's really why he got caught, though by the end of Civil War, turns out he failed at his initial plan, too, since all he did was drove Steve underground, but still ready for whatever comes.

I really don't get how the accords would have made anything better

I can't think of any scenarios where having Ross and his cronies calling the shots would have made anything better

>>85622756
Accords are the weak part of the movie. They are not coherent. Although it's worth remembering that SHIELD was a thing. It was infiltrated by HYDRA, yes, but it still functioned as international agency fine. In MCU UN seems more efficient.

But why should Avengers be under UN? They should fit into national defence and law enforcement hierarchy.

>>85622756
>I can't think of any scenarios where having Ross and his cronies calling the shots

It wouldn't have been Ross. It would've been a UN panel. Ross was essentially acting as a middleman/representative of the UN to the Avengers.

>I really don't get how the accords would have made anything better

The basic idea was that the Avengers would not be able to act at their own discretion and whatever missions they'd go on would be those sanctioned by the UN. Basically putting the Avengers on a leash to otherwise keep potential collateral damage down.

>>85621745
You know cap doesn't really think this, was even about to go with it until he heard about wanda.

>>85622826
Which Stark was confident they could work around over time, would've been a lot easier of Cap had agreed to help with this.

Then again, Cap knew there would come a time they would absolutely need to act an the UN would prevent them, at which point they'd try to exert all their control over the team.

Both were right, and both were wrong.
That's why the audiences tend to pick sides in this movie.

Ross is a super villain
The UN are super jews
Tony is a douchebag

do the maths

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>>85622913
>Which Stark was confident they could work around over time, would've been a lot easier of Cap had agreed to help with this.

He would've got Steve to agree with it had he not said things as badly as he did.

>Then again, Cap knew there would come a time they would absolutely need to act an the UN would prevent them,
>Both were right, and both were wrong.
Indeed. There were merits and flaws to both sides of the argument.

On one end, oversight would potentially limit them to such an extent that if there was a threat that they needed to deal with right the fuck away, the bureaucracy of the UN would slow down response time, or potentially flat out deny them clearance to act. But at the same time, some threats that they'd otherwise respond to might actually be within the power for local governments to deal with.

On the flip side. Without oversight, yeah, the Avengers would go and probably neutralize threats quicker than what an individual government/military might be able to, but doling out their idea of justice/whatehaveyou doesn't exactly inspire trust with the public and governments at large. And it ironically brings the Avengers closer to how Fury would've ideally operated the Project Insight Helicarriers for, which Steve was in outright opposition of.

Tony envies Bucky.

>>85622913
>Which Stark was confident they could work around over time, would've been a lot easier of Cap had agreed to help with this.
Stark did no such thing. Stark just outright ignored the Accords and acted under his own intuition anyway.

Tony and Steve are actually on the same side, neither believe in the Accords. It's just that Tony has no honour and sees no problem signing his name next to something he doesn't believe in. That was also why Black Widow signed; she signed because her name is worthless.

Steve Rogers'? Steve still believes that his name is worth something. So he refused to sign a lie.

There is nothing wrong with the IDEA of having the accords. The issue is that the Accords as it currently is is shit. If you are willing to sign your name next to that piece of shit then your name is worthless.

>>85623154
As for the others who signed:
Vision signed because he is a robot and was always wanting to be socially accepted. Taking orders from other people is all that he did through out the entire film.

Rhodey is similar to Vision but more human, in that he is an employee of the US Airforce and as such the Accords would have next to no impact for him. He was always going to take orders from US of A, so the Accords changes nothing at all.

>>85615688
I thought the only people who give a shit about Cap these days want him and Bucky to be boyfriends. The more MUH BUCKY he is the more it pleases his fangirls.

>>85623328
>I thought the only people who give a shit about Cap these days want him and Bucky to be boyfriends.

Non-femanon here. Can confirm to the contrary. I like Cap and Bucky. But ain't into homolusting between them.

>>85619073
Because his parents dying is what turned him into an alcoholic manwhore. You only get one set of parents and one childhood.

Bucky is one of several comrades yet Cap prioritize him over everything else including his country. It's not equivalent.

>>85623353
>Bucky is one of several comrades yet Cap prioritize him over everything else including his country. It's not equivalent.
Steve never prioritised Bucky over his country. His country believes in innocent until proven guilty. Further, he was in Germany and was not in any way fighting Americans at the time. How is fighting Germans anti-America?

>>85623353
>Alkie manlet-ho

Fixed for you.

>>85622882
>>85623028
>He would've got Steve to agree with it had he not said things as badly as he did.
While I'm Team Cap this scene throws shade on Tony I actually liked how he felt compelled to tell Steve about Wanda's situation even if hurriedly.

He probably just knew that Steve would find out eventually but I like to think it was one of the moments part of a long journey towards Tony turning that new leaf he's been working on since IM1. I like to think he just could not bring himself to lie to Steve regardless of how it made him look, which to me explains the "Give me a break!" response as Tony feeling more like he was being faulted for trying to be careful and honest and less just a irritated, petulant reaction from the argument. Tony wants to do good but it's unbelievably difficult when people like Miriam Sharpe, Ross, Zemo and Steve turn his best intentions against him and it's so much easier and familiar to him to just shrug and be done with other people's problems.

I get tensions were high and Steve was probably ticked about what was happening to Wanda when she herself was going through a similar transformative phase, but in conclusion with all this in mind I felt that was the time Steve should have recognized what Tony was going through, put his hand on his shoulder and said he's sorry about how taxing it is. He of all people should be able to relate to the pressure.

>>85621082
In Captain America's own film Tony came off as more sympathetic. Everything he did was because the guilt he felt about all the civilian casualties Avengers caused and the PTSD paranoia of some huge threat attacking earth (which we know is gonna end up not just being paranoia.)

Not to mention finding out parents didn't die in a car crash but were assassinated by Caps butt buddy.

>>85618788
How the heck could someone get that impression from the movie?

>>85623328
Nice try Tonyfag.

I don't give a fuck about shipping, Cap is still a better character than Stark. He was completely justified in not trusting the Accords and fighting for his friend. I feel like all the retards that reduce that just to "MUH BUCKY" never had a real friend in their whole life. You don't give up on your brother, especially one that stood beside you your whole life and fought a war with you.

>>85621099
You have it astoundingly backwards. Superheroes are a libertarian fantasy, the concept that individuals working outside governmental controls can do more good then governmentally authorized peace officers.

>>85615688
Pissed me off how much they nurfed iron man. In the comics he breaks caps jaw in one hit.

>>85621298
>caused millions in damages and hurt many

Exactly how? Zemo is the one who got Bucky caught. Zemo is the one who was easily able to (a) find the guy who had the red book, (b) penetrate what presumably is a highly secure area as a fake shrink just by killing the guy and saying, "hi, I'm him", yadda yadda.

This was all PLOT CONTRIVANCE/PLOT CONVENIENCE. Just as it was that there was a conveniently placed camera somewhere on a fucking dirt one lane highway in upstate New York in the 1950s that was CONVENIENTLY places just where the car was brought off the road.

The entirety of the Winter Soldier has to come up to the car to finish them off is just MORE PLOT CONTRIVANCE/PLOT DEVICE - way too many cheap detective/noir tv show and B movies have shown cars with the brakes cut or something similar. There were so many other ways to get the serum. And why exactly does Hydra need the Starks killed to get the serum?

You're just arguing based on false premises created by a shitty movie full of plot holes, whether they be on Cap's end, Tony's, Zemo's or anyone else involved.

It wasn't a stupid movie like Petty Billionaire vs. Constipated Alien - Dawn of Grimdark verse but it was no prize in logic or story-telling either.

>>85623450
>Zemo is the one who was easily able to

It wasn't easy though. He had to decipher Hydra files for a year to get that information.

>Just as it was that there was a conveniently placed camera somewhere on a fucking dirt one lane highway in upstate New York in the 1950s that was CONVENIENTLY places just where the car was brought off the road.

1990s, I think you mean. And yeah, the CCTV camera was convenient. Had it not been there, Zemo could've just left the mission report file on a table and still got the desired effect.

>And why exactly does Hydra need the Starks killed to get the serum?

So he couldn't replicate it? Also, they needed Howard dead because he found out Hydra still existed and had compromised Shield.

>>85623353
>You only get one set of parents and one childhood.
what's your point? CW established that Tony had all that but was a dick to them anyways
>Bucky is one of several comrades yet Cap prioritize him over everything else
maybe because Bucky was a brother to Cap since they were kids?

>>85623433
Superheroes are not mercenaries, you can't refuse them. If they want to police you, they will, no better then government.

Nothing libertarian about offers you can't refuse.

>>85619990
Once again cool horseshit bro

>>85623803
There's nothing authoritarian about citizens' arrests.

>>85619636
>How is Steve a fascist?

He wants freedom for himself.
He doesnt give a fuck about the freedom and sovereignty of others. Steve whole deal in the movie is "i know what is better for you". He enforces his will and principles on others.

>>85623433
>Superheroes are a libertarian fantasy

Not at all, especially not Captain America.

lmao the manlet git btfo
git gud next time tbqh pham

>>85625883
There is if there's one citizen and he's not bound by law.

>>85626029
Specially when the citizen isnt from your country. Steve is the equivalent of an illegal arab braking into a liquor in London, wrecking shit and hitting the owner with a bad cuz Alcohol is Haram

>>85625940
And yet they never attempt to actually charge him or the Avengers with any wrongdoing.

Price of freedom is eternal vigilance and those others aren't doing anything but hohumming and getting mad that the superpowered terrorists that no one could have stopped clean except a superhero team was not stopped clean by a superhero team.

It's the same old shit with Marvel civilians. You're a hero until you don't live up to everyone's expectations and then you're a fuck up and hated.

If Crossbones was KO'd and nothing bad happened, no one would have said shit about the Avengers operating on foreign soil.

>>85619488
> Tantrum

If anything Stark went into pure and utter revenge mode. If it was a tantrum, he would have just started screaming and yelling at Bucky while trying to hit him.

Stark very calmly and very methodically tried to kill Bucky. He didn't try to 'hurt' Buck. Everything he threw at Bucky would have meant instant death, if Steve hadn't stopped him.

>>85626521
>And yet they never attempt to actually charge him or the Avengers with any wrongdoing.

That's why his position is retarded, Wanda and Tony destroyed an country and yet the ONLY thing they are asking of him and his squad of killers is to agree to not operate without concent.


Also, not a single threat the avengers had have couldnt had been defeated by normal soldiers. So far Jarvis is the only one that has done something impossible.
Aparently Steve thinks is better to act as the black ops of the CIA than to be like the Red Cross or global Firemen.


Jarvis is the true hero. Steve is th Bully in europe.

>>85626560
>Everything he threw at Bucky would have meant instant death,

No. He didnt use his laser from Iron Man 2. I know this armor was one of the weakest ones but he still should had have more stuff

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Fuck off, Tony.

>>85626666
>No. He didnt use his laser from Iron Man 2.

Cause' he couldn't. He had to use that to clear out debris so he could get into the missile silo to kill Bucky.

>That's why his position is retarded, Wanda and Tony destroyed an country

No one knows, outside the Avengers and maybe Klaue, that Tony created Ultron. He hasn't been blamed for it because the world probably thinks Ultron was something Hydra created.

>Tony

His argument fell apart the moment he decided Cap might be onto something and turned around and went to help Cap against the rules of the Accords. If the Accords wouldn't prevent the Avengers from going to the places they need to go to stop evil, why didn't Ross send them after the other Winter Soldiers?

Oh wait, because, surprise surprise, BUREAUCRACY.

>>85628275
>why didn't Ross send them after the other Winter Soldiers?

Because he outright thought it was bullshit. And he technically isn't in charge of the Avengers. The UN is.

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>>85615688
>only movie this year to cross a billion
>did CW ruin Cap's popularity

Cap literally did nothing wrong

>>85615830
>Still Iron Man reigns supreme in China.
>red superhero more popular in China than superhero that clearly represents the US
I wonder how that could be.

>>85628342
Zootopia also made a billion,

The thing about the movie is that it wasn't about the collective guilt of the Avengers, but Tony eventually shaped it into his own personal guilt. You know, because everything has to be about Tony.

>talk about New York and Sarkovia had casualties
>group agrees
>Tony: WAIT WAIT, I HAVE MY OWN PERSONAL GUILT THAT YOU SHOULD ALL ALSO FEEL BAD ABOUT

>>85619990
Can you or someone else link these twitter polls? I don't see why you wouldn't.