Can we agree that this is severely underrated? Even if the DCEU

No, it's perfectly forgettable

>>85560110
No, it was shit.

>>85560110

Confirmed. I often compare it to the first Mad Max.

Every superhero movie wants to be Mad Max 2 and ends up being Beyond Thunderdome.

Character driven and introspective, even when there's THE BEST SUPER FIGHT EVER

>>85560110
Solid 8/10 film

It's fucking crap, OP

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>>85560110

>>85560233
I can only see Evans when I see this now.

Also no op, MoS was bad.

comparatively it's decent but garbage Pa Kent

No, we can't.
Most of the DCEU's problems are just as present in Man of Steel.

>>85560142
>No, it's perfectly forgettable

Then why we still dialy thread about it?

The musical score and the fight scenes are way above most superhero films anyways.

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>>85560255

>>85560325
Because of /tv/ shitposters, of course. And shitposters in general.

>>85560325
/tv/ shitposters.

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At least compared to the Snyderverse/Goyerverse, I actually really like Superman Returns.

Now, if only someone could convince Tom Welling to play Superman again. I'd welcome his return to the DCEU.

>>85560142
/thread

>>85560325
-because it's the most disappointing cape movie ever made (not worst, most disappointing)
-because it was one of the most horrifically violent/dark superhero movies ever made, and it's a fucking Superman movie
-because they decided this piece of fucking garbage was an adequate springboard for a massive superhero movie franchise
-because any time someone decides to bitch about it, the Snyder Defense Force responds immediately and explains why everyone else is wrong and why Man of Steel wasn't a wet fart

There's lots of reasons

>>85560468
See? This is a thread I would post in.

MoS was not a fun movie. The Krypton parts sucked. The Kent family sucked. The final battle sucked.

Returns, despite everyone saying it was boring, was really a solid movie all the way through. I would have loved to see an a cinematic universe come from this movie and a more stylized Batman series.

While we're just shitting our pants - why can't I get my Batman and Superman "night and day" movie???

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>this thread

>>85560325
>Then why we still dialy thread about it?
>why we do daily threads about it?
>daily
Where have you been?

.>>85560620
>While we're just shitting our pants - why can't I get my Batman and Superman "night and day" movie???

Because Superman Returns didn't break box office records so WB, in their infinite faggotry, looked at the success of the Nolan Batman Franchise and, when combined with the fact that they needed to rush a movie into production because of rights issues, decided "make him more like Batman and make sure to add fights!" was the recipe for success
You can't get a night and day movie because what we're working with is night and dusk.

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>>85560729

>>85560559
>-because it was one of the most horrifically violent/dark superhero
But its not.
Kick Ass 1-2, Deadpool are much more bloody & violence oriented. And they diminish themselves because they try to pass it off as exploitative crass fun while Mos handles its violence maturely.
Mos has horrifying parts dealing with destruction because that is simply good fucking directing, such situations should be powerful & moving.

>>85560468
>>85560620
>>85560729
>>85560843

Seriously? SERIOUSLY, MOTHERFUCKERS?

You guys want to hate Man of Steel so much that you guys will pick a movie where Superman date-raped Lois leaving her pregnant and was a deadbit dad? The movie that had an even more forced and tacky Christian imagery? The movie that had even more bad acting in it?

Fucking seriously? Holy hell.

>>85560957
I love Most alot more the Returns also so I fully support your point, but STOP with the deadbeat dad bullshit, your not a deadbeat dad IF YOU DON'T FUCKING KNOW YOU HAVE A SON!!!

>MoS
>forgettable
>crap

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7p5-14rjWUM

I invite everyone to watch the video above.

>>85561037
Why didn't he use his super hearing to hear for Lois giving birth in agonizing pain

>>85560620
I can't find the video at the moment, but there was a great scene between Clark and his father in season 1 of Smallville where Clark's freaking out about his emerging powers, and his father----as a caring parent----helps him figure out how to control his X-Rays and shit in a montage. It was lightheaded and fun----but that's what it needed to be. More than that, it showed Pa Kent as someone Clark has good reason to look up to and be inspired from.

In general, I feel like there were entire scenes from Smallville that could have been spliced into Man of Steel to make it better.

Jonathan's funeral scene:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHilhS3QGz8
>Imagine this funeral scene with all of Clark's classmates and there families he saved from the bus years earlier, reinforcing that even in his darkest hour there are many people alive because of his heroism

Spirt of Pa Kent:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ5C4sGh-SU
>This reunion scene instead of the one in the mountains in BvS. "I feel like every time I do something right I do something wrong."

>>85561037

The problem is that Superman kept himself away from the kid's life even after learning that the kid was his son.

Yes, that scene with him reciting Marlon Brandon's Jor-El speech about the father and the son while outside the kid's window was nice, but he was still outside the kid's window talking to a sleeping child.

Bryan Singer fucked big time by trying to make Superman Returns the actual real "third and final" movie to the previous two Richard Donner's movies, because the second Richard Donner's movie end with Superman erasing Lois's memory with a super-kiss and the notion that Lois walked out of that ordeal pregnant and with no idea who the father was is really... i don't even have words for that.

>>85561118

What's with the problem with having an unprepared and conflicted Pa Kent struggling but still attempting to steer Superman to the straight path?

>>85561118
>I can't find the video at the moment, but there was a great scene between Clark and his father in season 1 of Smallville where Clark's freaking out about his emerging powers, and his father----as a caring parent----helps him figure out how to control his X-Rays and shit in a montage
It's heat vision.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtUEd25FojA

>>85561225
Watch what I just linked. That Jonathan is just as unprepared.

>>85560729
>>85560957
I never said Superman Returns was what I wanted.

>>85561301

I had forgotten that in Smallville they used heat-vision was a metaphor to boners.

>>85561344
Johns did it too in Secret Origin.

>be a huge superman fan
>love the 78 film
>go see superman returns
It's literally awful

>go see MoS
Eh, not bad.

Spend too much time on krypton and the ending fight takes forever but otherwise I can't think of too many modern CapeFlicks better than it. (By which I mean I'd watch it i saw it on tv...where as most other ones I'd just turn the station)

>>85561360
Damn, why didn't they just took Secret Origin as a source matherial to MoS? It's perfect.

>>85561387

No, it isn't.

>>85561404
It has decent story, pretty good dialogs and it's easy to adapt. Why not? Just cut off all "too comic staff" and you have best supes origin for movie.

>>85561426

It's short, has too many Silver Age concepts that would look silly in a movie, apes too much Donner's movies and suffers a bit from Johnsinism.

>>85560380
I personally wasn't a fan of the dbz CGI stuff, but the fights were definitely the best part. I haven't listened to the score separately.

>>85561387
There are plenty of versions that would've been perfect, anon.

The problem was that Snyder combined (at least) three of them, didn't respect their contexts, and then added a bunch of shit that wasn't Superman at all, like the bible or Miracleman 15.

Like if you want to do a movie inspired by Birthright, that works great. If you want to do a movie inspired by Earth One, that's a risk, but it still might work.

But you don't mix that with Earth One, because Birthright has a proactive "I want to help people" Clark and Earth One's "I just want to be normal/rich/famous/beloved" Clark. Then you don't combine THAT with the "I'm an outsider because I'm an alien" characterizations that they used with Byrne's "I was literally Born on Earth. It is my one true world. I identify as Human" Clark.

Those are very different takes on the character to be combining all willy nilly.

>>85561464
>It's short
You can pad it a little in adaptation.
> has too many Silver Age concepts that would look silly in a movie,
Like what? I mean the Legion stuff can be cut but I don't see what else is so bad.
>apes too much Donner's movies
Is this an art style thing? Because this sounds like an art style thing.
>and suffers a bit from Johnsinism.
But I thought he was based and was going to save the DCEU.


>>85561465
I wish you guys would stop comparing MoS to DBZ.
Goku takes battle damage.

>>85561387
I hesitate to say perfect, but Secret Origin did something that I absolutely adore, and would love to see if/when they reboot Superman in the movies again.

The story is told entirely from Clark's perspective. It starts with Clark as a kid in Smallville, just starting to become aware of his powers. We don't see Krypton at all. The only glimpse we get of Krypton is through the video recording left in the rocketship. The focus of the story isn't on Clark's alien side, it's on Clark as Clark. He's aware of his alien past, but only as something that happened years ago that he wasn't around for and wasn't aware of. This IMO humanizes Clark in a way we rarely see in Superman origin stories. Because Clark isn't an alien, not really. He grew up with two loving earthling parents in a quiet, peaceful rural community. He's one of us in every way that matters. Spending time showing us Krypton not only isn't relevant to Clark's character arc, it makes him less relatable to the audience.

>>85561464
Yeah, I get it. At least, it has great Luthor. Is there any better version in comics? I mean, I love Luthor who motivated by "YOU STOLE MY ROLE OF SAVIOR OR METROPOLIS, SUPERMAN!"
>>85561471
If they hate canon earth so much, they just could adapt Earth-one Supes and Bats. It could be pretty great.

>>85561471

First, Snyder didn't created the script for MoS. It was a labor of love between Goyer and Nolan, but more Nolan.
Second every Superman movie since Richard Donner suffers from Christian imagery. If you find the Christian imagery in MoS tacky, you'd be appalled to how blantant and it is in Superman I and Superman Returns.
Third, MoS takes bits and pieces from various comics while creating an entirely new story much like the TDK trilogy did.

And MoS had a lot more in common with John Byrne's era than either Mark Waid's Birthright or JMS's Earth One.

>>85561471
I'd accept the Savior/Christ portrayal of Superman if----you know---it featured him saving people. Burning bridges, helping Red Cross workers in devastated regions of Africa (thus making sense of scenes like not!Al Shabab in BvS) or anything really that shows him helping out his fellow man.

If Batman is defined by punishing the guilty in BvS, then Superman could be defined as saving people. See Snyder? There's your Jesus vs Lucifer religious symbolism.

There was like a minute montage of that in BvS, that wasn't enough.

>>85560110
Still better than Civil War

>>85561524
Yeah, but the blink step...

>>85561471
>because Birthright has a proactive "I want to help people" Clark
>Earth One's "I just want to be normal/rich/famous/beloved" Clark.
But Mos's Clark DID actively want to help people. But was held back by fear of the consequences. There was no evidence Mos's Clark wanted to be normalized/famous or beloved, he seemed to just want to be left alone for the greater good.

>>85561713
Not really.

MCU Steve Rogers is more moral and Superman-y than DCEU Superman.

>>85561753

>Civil War
>Steve being moral

Ha! Dude's basically Justice Lord Superman.

>>85561471
>and Earth One's "I just want to be normal/rich/famous/beloved" Clark
That isn't the part of EO they took influence from, mainly they only took the tone of EO not the characterization.

>>85561588
Agreed. I mean, you can 2-2,5 hours movie.
Let's begin with life on Krypton for 20-30 minutes so we could feel compassion for Clark's parents in catastrophe.
Next 30 minutes is childhood of Clark like in Secret Origin.
Next 30 minutes is about Clark comes to Metropolis, gets hired for Daily Planet, meets Lois, Jimmy, Perry, Luthor and someone to be Parasite like in Secret Origin too, saving people etc. but Lois must recognize Supes at some scene
All other part is about Supes trying to handle with Parasite and not conflicting with army.
He mets Lois at the end and she recognized him. Put some cool flying scene in final, I dunno.

>>85560325
>Why do we still daily thread

it's mostly assblasted DCkeks desperate to convince people they have at least one good movie.

>>85561784

They took nothing from Earth One, actually. The movie's script was writing way before and EO was launched like... what? Couple months before MoS?

>>85561753
No they both have strong morals, the difference is after 33 years of taking people's abuse and not reacting the DCEU Superman is realistically prone to tiny moments of rage & spite, that doesn't make him morally lesser.

>>85561819

Most of the DCEU threads are started by people complaining about the movies or wondering about things in it, though.

>>85561691
>First, Snyder didn't created the script for MoS. It was a labor of love between Goyer and Nolan, but more Nolan.
Snyder, by his own admission, was in the writer's room. He's uncredited yes but you're going to have to convince me he had no impact on the story whatsoever.
>
Second every Superman movie since Richard Donner suffers from Christian imagery. If you find the Christian imagery in MoS tacky, you'd be appalled to how blantant and it is in Superman I and Superman Returns.

I think you're misinterpreting my problem with it. Much like Birthright, or Earth One, or Man of Steel, if you want to make a jesus allegory Superman movie, that's fine and dandy. But do the ENTIRE story, not just one scene. There's more to the Jesus story than "he doubted his purpose and then died and came back." The story doesn't start in the Garden of Gethsemane.

>Third, MoS takes bits and pieces from various comics while creating an entirely new story much like the TDK trilogy did.
I know, and said as much. I don't think it worked here because they pulled from very disparate sources without understanding why the segments they were using worked.

Like, for example, taking the "wandering the earth" stuff from Birthright doesn't mean the same thing in Man of Steel as it does its source material, because Clark isn't actually shown traveling the entirety of the world and isn't shown connecting with people. The meaning is totally different.

>And MoS had a lot more in common with John Byrne's era than either Mark Waid's Birthright or JMS's Earth One.
See the above point. Pulling the sterile Krypton from Byrne doesn't work when earth is portrayed as just as cold and sterile. Killing Zod worked under Byrne because it wasn't the first thing Clark did' the context was entirely different and he already had a no kill code to be tested rather than defined.

tl;dr nothing Snyder did was new or special or bad. He just fucked up the execution of it. Really, really badly.

>>85561861
I don't see how this disproves my "all the threads are assblasted DC fans" point.

>complaining
90% of those are pretty obvious false flag baits

>wondering about things
These are usually just a picture, a quote from them movie, followed by either
>KINO
or
>What did he mean by this?

>>85561784
Oh, it's you again.

Let's cover usual beats shall we? I say "Tone informs characterization. The two are linked." then you throw a tantrum and argue about how you can finally take Superman seriously now that he isn't so campy and silly and call me a retard in increasingly broken rage speak.

It must really trigger /tv/ that Max Landis made a better Superman story than their darling.

>>85560110
There is no part of your post that isn't wrong. MoS is not underrated. At best it's rated. In reality, it's overrated. It will not be the best one because SS was the best one so far, and even it was just decent.

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>>85560110

I actually enjoyed it, but I don't like Superman and just wanted to see super people punching each other so I don't think my opinion should count.

It's got the same issue all DCEU films have.

There's some things that shit all over stuff in other superhero films. Superman and Zod's final showdown is spectacular.

There's a bunch of amazing scenes, strung together by weird editing and some really stupid shit that needs no prompting.

>>85561950
>Tone informs characterization
Ageed hence why he was not smiling all the time.
But his characterization & motivation in Mos is still very different from EO even if the tone of the world is close.
And I have always taken him seriously, I loved Tas as a kid & still love it now, I just wish more creators took him in such a way.

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One of the most sad part that DCEU Supes are angry or brooding all the time. We simply don't care or disgusted by this. But in decent stories, when you see pissed off Supes it gives you chills and feeling that it's really bad. No one want's to see such a good guy in bad mood. I mean, when he always inspires hope and smiles, you really don't want to dissapoint him. Especially with power he has.

>>85560867
If I walk out of a Superman movie thinking, "Man, I'm glad Superman isn't real" instead of "Wow, Superman is so cool! I wish he was real!" then it's missed the fucking point of Superman.

>>85562014
On the contrary, MoS threads would be a lot less toxic if the people who liked it would just admit this the same way you do. I fully respect this opinion even if I completely disagree with it.

>>85562048
>But his characterization & motivation in Mos is still very different from EO even if the tone of the world is close.
Explain how you think this is the case so that I may laugh derisively at you.

>>85561894

Snyder only exercised his opinion on actions scenes and on the whole Zod's snapped neck thing by his own admission.

MoS isn't about how Superman's Jesus. Far from it.

Superman wondering the Earth didn't began Mark Waid's Birthright. Mark Waid himself took that from John Byrne, where you had Superman travelling around the world working on various dead-end jobs while trying to figure out his purpose in the world.
Superman even dated a cute Asian chick during his travelling years. John Byrne's Superman was a playa.

Earth wasn't cold and sterile in MoS. What the hell are you talking about?
MoS is about trust and choices. Krypton gave no choice to its people and in their later days that bred mistrust among its people. Earth was all about how people can make their choices and about if you should trust or not in people. Superman took a leap of faith and placed his trust on the military and the military trusted him back.

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I was not a fan of Man of Steel. However, so far it has been the best movie out of the DCEU movies.

>>85561922
MoS is still better than Thor2, IM2-3, Antman, Cap1 and AoU. No one denies that it's just generic flick though. (except some snyderfags)

>>85561837
>that doesn't make him morally lesser.
That's exactly what it does.
He's supposed to be better than us. He shouldn't have catastrophic temper tantrums. He shouldn't be brooding as a default.
He has brooding moments of introspection but when those moments happen in MoS or BvS, the point is moot because he's so dour and mopey and over-all detached all the time that they have no impact.

>>85561950
>Tone informs characterization
Your completely making that point out of context, I AGREE his Mos characterization is informed by the fact that the tone of the world around him is dark, but that doesn't mean he has to be emo, selfish & uncaring like he was in EO. He can care about helping people and still not be smiling all the time.

>>85560110
What it is, is a tragedy.

A film murdered by a filmmaker that doesn't get the central premise of the film.

That is all.

>>85562111
Thor 2, Iron Man 3, and Avengers 2 I'll give you. Ant-Man and the first Cap were pretty great. Iron Man 2 was mediocre, but not the worst movie I've ever seen.

>>85562068

What if i like Superman and liked MoS for other reasons than seeing super-people punching each other in really cool ways? Am i toxic in your opinion?

>>85560867
Do you really not see how "taking the violence seriously" is the direct cause of people feeling like Superman didn't do enough and caused more problems than he solved?
Not to mention that destruction porn isn't good directing in of itself. By that logic Emmerich deserves an oscar.

>>85562146
First Cap is literaly trash movie.
Ant-Man is cheap IM rip-off with "sience"

>>85561779
I'd like it if MoS2 has Superman going full Hernan Guerra after his resurrection and not giving a shit anymore.

He'll still save people from disasters, confront bad guys, but he'll go full lethal and disregard anyone and everyone that gets in his way. Not necessarily misanthropic, just more aware of his powers and how right he is-----and how wrong anyone who stands against him might be.

Basically all of the worst case scenarios of what Pa Kent and Lex Jr thought Superman could be, made real.

>>85562117
>but that doesn't mean he has to be emo, selfish & uncaring like he was in EO
It's still funny you think he wasn't emo. He may not have been selfish, I'll give you that. But emo? Absolutely he was.

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>>85560867
>while Mos handles its violence maturely.
Oh god I thought people were joking when they went with the "mature movies for mature people like myself" defence

>>85562199

He was conflicted and feeling empty, but not emo, and that was mostly during the beginning of the movie. After finding the Scout Ship and learning more about where he came from he mellows out, until Zod shows up. Then after that he's purposeful, trustful and serious.

>>85562167
>What if i like Superman and liked MoS
I just can't see how you could if you like Superman for anything more than surface level characteristics or lore.

As the other anon is saying, merely referencing numerous Superman stories does not make Man of Steel a worthwhile adaptation of Superman; it was just about completely antithetical to what Superman is and has been at his best. And I say this as someone who doesn't mind Superman not being all smiles and happy all the time.

>>85562083
In Mos we see even as a kid he wanted to/felt the need to/knew it was the right thing to do in the act of saving people in danger. He is held back by fear of potential consequences not from a lack of will or morals to commit to such actions.

In EOv1 we never see any indication that he cares about helping people, He seemed to be interested in finding the best use of his powers, and he just seems to stumble upon the idea that he he could use them to go out & save people with them combined with the arrival of Tyrell.

It's just shame that Henry Cavil is embodiment of Supes irl and also can act decently, but script and Snyder simply didn't allowed to him to be perfect Superman who'll be loved by people of dceu and our universe.

>>85562068
>MoS threads would be a lot less toxic if the people who liked it would just admit this
But I love every thing about Superman except his general tone. Scratch that, the tone of many of his stories not the tone of his personality, So I factually do fucking care about the character & Mos is also my 2nd favorite movie. So your fucking wrong you piece of human trash.

>>85562262

I disagree completely with your opinion. MoS wasn't simple a mishmash or story-lines, but a new story that took inspiration from the comics and did something completely new with it. I also don't find Superman characterization shallow or it's handle of his characteristics and lore surface level.

>>85562146
Nah, man.
Thor 2 is forgettable as shit but it wasn't offensive. I know I saw it but I can't remember a single thing that happened in it. But I also don't remember getting pissed off.

I really liked Iron Man 3, fight me.
Avengers 2, other than Quicksilver dying, I don't see the problem. It was a decent enough flick.

Man of Steel made me sick. I was angry and let down. I went to that movie multiple times because I was so sure my opinion wasn't right after the first and second viewings. I didn't like it one bit and I refused to believe it
The only other movie I felt that way with was the Phantom Menace.

>>85562115
>He's supposed to be better than us.
THAT IS THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE DCEU, is to show us a relatable human being who is NOT better then us but still goes out and does his best in spite of his own flaws.

>LET THEM DROWN CLARK
>DON'T SAVE ME INVINCIBLE SON
>YOU DON'T OWE YOUR HOMEPLANET SHIT, CLARK, YOU DON'T OWE ALL THESE DEAD PEOPLE ALSO
That's not really surprising that dceu Supes is edgelord and asshole. Kents of this universe are total douchebags

>>85562180
>I'd like it if MoS2 has Superman going full Hernan Guerra after his resurrection and not giving a shit anymore.
He's ALREADY been giving far too few shits. That's the whole problem.

He's been characterized, literally, as "What If... Superman was Marvel?"
He's a grumpy fuck-up. NOT MUH and all that but it's true

>>85562387

That's a completely wrong reading of DCEU Pa Kent.

Here, see this video so that you can feel dumb:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpsxVDHRhek

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I felt like Man of Steel lacked any kind of optimism. Not even Ma and Pa Kent were friendly, which is what I always thought they should be. There ideas were so strange and backwards I actually scratched my head as to why they were depicted this way.

That said, best villain so far, and best cohesive plot and story. Editing is good, and the music is nonintrusive. Easily the best of the DCEU. That's not really a good thing though.

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>>85560110
>3 years, 2 months and 3 days since the first daily MoS Defense Force thread.

Every day til we like it?

Keep at it kids, I still didn't enjoy it.

Superman the Movie was way, WAY better than Man of Steel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhSwNDMgNzI

>>85562370
>THAT IS THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE DCEU,
Yeah. And that's bad.

>>85561524
Kek
Seriously though the lack of blood and dirt on Zod and Clark's face irked me a lot

>3 years, 2 months and 3 days

>>85562061
>Donner
>You'll believe a man can fly

>Snyder
>OH THANK GOD FOR FICTION

>>85562331
>MoS wasn't simple a mishmash or story-lines
I didn't say it was. It merely referenced select panels and scenes instead of looking at the thematic core or philosophy of what made those stories great. And as >>85561894 pointed out, Snyder failed to actually fuse these references into a cohesive vision, or at the very least attempt to expand on a single one.

It only gets worse that, in the process, he completely misunderstands the character. Yet again, as others have pointed out, the embodiment of morality and human aspiration does not become a victim of childish tantrums or manslaughter to solve his problems--he always finds a way.

I'd be interested in hearing how you feel MoS does not somehow buy into these tropes.

>>85562329
>But I love every thing about Superman except his general tone.
Again, all this really tells me is that you didn't really like Superman.

>>85562370
But DCEU Superman doesn't want to do his best, he didn't give a fuck about saving people for the whole life except random people on his way. And in battle with Zod he also give zero fucks about lifes and property. Just remember scene when he lazily dodges benzin truck and it explodes with whole building with probable casualtes in it

>>85562370
DC comics do a better job of showing flawed, conflicted people doing their best than the DCEU, though. Hell, the Marvel movies are doing a better job of that than the DCEU.

>>85561753
That scene when Supes flies through the gravity machine and when Cap tries to stop Bucky by grabbing the helicopter were heroic as fuck. I want more scenes like that.

>3 years, 2 months and 3 days.

>>85562370
That's not Superman. It just isn't
It never has been. He's had inner turmoil at times but the whole point of the character, the whole point of ever Jar-El speech ever, is that Superman is the ideal. He's what mankind should aspire to be one day.
He's not a pissed off, confused hobo.
To change that is to undermine the character at a fundamental level.
It'd be like making a Batman movie but Bruce isn't smart and his parents aren't dead.
It just isn't a valid interpretation. You can only stray so far before you've just got a different character all together

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>>85562169
>is the direct cause of people feeling like Superman didn't do enough
But there ISN'T anything else he could have done, he can't be in the Indian Ocean & in Metropolis at the same time and him going to stop the Metropolis ship instead would have been a horrible call because he would have had to fight off a whole army of Kryptonians before he could stop the ship.
He tried to take Zod out of the city when he let loose with the full power punches high up in the sky & he took Zod right to the edge of down town, see pic related.
>and caused more problems than he solved?
Such as? (besides activating the scout ship)

>Not to mention that destruction porn isn't good directing in of itself. By that logic Emmerich deserves an oscar.
Of course, but Snyder handled it well here as...
A.) its a realistic result of beings like this fighting.
B.) Gave us reason to care about the humans on the ground when we see them striving to help each other even in the face of death.
C.) Actual tangible consequences to the events of the film.
D.) Gave enough direness to the situation to justify Clark killing Zod.

>>85562511
We really will never stop talking about it.

R.I.P. /co/. You had a good run.

>>85562412
I feel like I almost lost 3 minutes of my life to useless scenes which didn't explained why Pa Kent so egoistical and overprotective asshole and Ma Kent is same.

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>>85562532
>It'd be like making a Batman movie but he kills, shoots and maims everyone
Fix'd

>>85562479

>Snyder failed to actually fuse these references into a cohesive vision, or at the very least attempt to expand on a single one.

I disagree. Seriously, it's like me and you guys watched completely different movies.

>It only gets worse that, in the process, he completely misunderstands the character.

See, this is madness to me. I don't understand this kind of thinking at all.

>>85562569
The only character I'm okay with Batman killing is Darkseid.

>>85562456
I hate MoS but I think that was actually a good choice. They throw each other through buildings and don't get a single hair out of place. It shows that there's no way punching each other will end the fight

>3 years, 2 months and 3 days

The ride never ends.

>>85562532

>He's not a pissed off, confused hobo.

Superman has been that. Several times.

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This movie, amongst others, is the reason why I hope Teen Titans never gets on the silver screen.

Will we ever get proper Superman movie?

>>85562222
But its not about me being a mature person, its just I can't immerse myself in the scenario presented in the film or enjoy if if the film treats the events like a childish joke that doesn't have any weight, meaning or depth.

And it did use the violence maturely as a realistic result of the situation, it wasn't characters throwing tantrums like immature brats like when Thor first encountered Iron Man just for the sake of the getting to fight on screen.
You see what I am getting at?

>>85562582
>I don't understand this kind of thinking at all.
I have actually provided an argument explaining why I and many others think this way, though, so I'm not sure what there is to misunderstand. I'll say it again: I'm very interested in hearing why you don't think that these arguments show how MoS runs totally counter to most other agreed upon best Superman stories.

>>85562582
Watch >>85562430

>she was going to let millions of people die to avoid pissing off her boss
>then changes her mind and makes Superman promise to save her mother first if she helps him
>he hesitates because Lois and Jimmy are in trouble too
>but then he agrees
>right before she saves him, she kisses him, when a moment before, she didn't want anything to do with him
>he keeps his promise
He didn't just save her mother; he saved her. That's who Superman is.

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>>85562412

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>>85562659
The mouse made one 20 years ago

>>85562486

DCEU is incapable of not giving a fuck about others. He's constantly out there saving lives even though knowing this will cost him everything. He's constantly risking his secret and life in order to save others. And during the battle with Zod he was inexperienced as fuck and trying to end the threat as fast he could.

I... i'm tired of this shit.

>>85562262
>it was just about completely antithetical
Saving 7-8 billion lives is antithetical to the concept of Superman because he had to struggle, endure hardship & make sacrifices to accomplish it instead of it just going easy & effortlessly for him.
What the actual fuck?

>>85562532
This exactly. MoS was a movie about an angsty pessimist with Superman's powers.

>>85562542
You're using the plot details as if they, you know...HAD to be written that way.
The destruction was too much. The script tried to explain it away, fine, but it still was retarded. We already had Clark acting like an idiot prior to learning to fly. At THAT scene, when he finally takes to the sky, that should have been the end of his floundering around.
The final act could have, SHOULD HAVE been triumphant but if just made him look even MORE inept.
And then he makes out with Lois while people are STILL DYING all around him.
"He saved us!"
Shut up, Jenny.

>>85562689
Who cares about cartoons, man? We have dozens of them with decent Supes.

>>85562396
>He's ALREADY been giving far too few shits.
Such as?

>>85562682

That's in the same movie where Superman traveled through time to save everyone despite Jor-El (God) warning him that he shouldn't. The whole point of the movie is that Superman felt bad about not being able to save Pa Kent and thus decided to be better and save everyone just because he can.

You can't compare that to MoS where Superman has clear limitations and the movie place the character in a catch-22 because the whole point of the movie is about choices and doing your best.

>>85562616
After years and years of being clean and not confused. He's been in jail too but that doesn't mean the movie should have started off with him in shackles.

>>85562772
jumpsoverexplodingtruck.gif
hesavedourdecimatedcity.jpg
stopinvincibleson.webm

>>85562698
>>85562722
The problem, though people are bad at articulating it, is really that Superman doesn't inspire people in-universe, or, despite his sacrifice and willingness to risk his life, really inspire most viewers.

Superman is meant to be an inspiration. He has doubts, sure, and he struggles, but you're supposed to be filled with awe and want to be a better person, to be the kind of person that Superman would be proud of. That's the point of Superman.

Anything that doesn't do that is failing to do Superman right.
>>85562779
I get what you're saying. My point is that that scene by itself encapsulate what Superman is about in general. He's about inspiring people. He's the archetypal knight in shining armor, there to save the day because you're worth it, whoever you are.

>Superman less likeable than Antnan for casuals nowdays
>Nobody outside of /co/ gives a shit about mos2
>People still defending Snyder
Guys, do you really hate DC so much or you just don't have taste at all?

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>>85562689

WB made a better one and they seem to have forgotten it

>>85562676

Because MoS shows a Superman that constantly throws himself out there to save others even when that will cost everything and even when placed in vary hard situations will do his very best.

Just because MoS isn't free of consequences and Superman ins perfect in it that doesn't mean that MoS is antithetical to what Superman is or what the movie doesn't understand what Superman is about.

Happy?

>>85562698
No he's not!..the fuck movies did you watch!?
At best he's watching Lois from orbit 24/7

He only starts saving people in BvS to make a point. "See! See? I'm a good guy! See this good stuff I'm doing despite me very visibly hating every second of it!? OH GOD THE MEXICANS ARE TOUCHING ME! EW!"

>>85562850
I dunno, man. I love DC comics, I didn't like Man of Steel, and I no longer care about DC movies unless they really surprise me.

>>85562437
Its bad to have a believable character instead of a flawless mary sue?
>>85562479
>Again, all this really tells me is that you didn't really like Superman.
Yes because the tone is the only fucking thing that matters about the character, fuck you.
>>85562486
>he didn't give a fuck about saving people for the whole life except random people on his way
EXCEPT THE ENTIRE FUCKING REASON he kept hidden for 33 years is because he does care about people and is afraid the reveal of his existence could cause more harm then the good he could physically accomplish.
>Just remember scene when he lazily dodges benzin truck and it explodes with whole building with probable casualtes in it
He was so focused on Zod he didn't realize the danger it posed hence his clearly shocked reaction when it exploded, and he WAS PROVEN FUCKING RIGHT the instant his back was turned to look at the explosion Zod sneak attacked him, what If he stopped the truck and while he did Zod started blitz attacking civilians?

>>85562825

>The problem, though people are bad at articulating it, is really that Superman doesn't inspire people in-universe, or, despite his sacrifice and willingness to risk his life, really inspire most viewers.

He placed his very being and trust in the government and military and inspired them enough to trust him back, when they had all the reasons not to, and rally behind his support.

Do you guys forget that part?

I just want you all to understand that Man of Steel is a movie in which THE WORLD WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER OFF IF BABY SUPERMAN HAD DIED IN SPACE.

THIS IS THE SUPERMAN MOVIE YOU'RE DEFENDING.

>>85562856
>If this animation movie were done in our days, no one would had idea to put Superman as inspiration
That's fucking sad, man. Thx to DCEU and Injustice all my casual friends think that Supes is angry insecure asshole

>>85562532
>That's not Superman. It just isn't
So anytime they write Superman as anything more relatable or with more depth then a flawless mary sue it ceases to be Superman?

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>>85562901

You're fucking mad. Completely bananas. I'm being 100% honest.

>>85562981
Isn't there an animated version of All-Star Superman? If it's good, you could show them that.

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>>85560110
By virtue of in retrospective being the least cluttered pile of shit sure.

>>85562969

The same can be said about Superman II, Grant Morrison's Action Comics run, every action Lex ever took to destroy Superman and so on.

>>85562861
>Happy?
A bit. I'm not attacking you, just trying to hear an argument from someone who seems a little more reasonable.

>Because MoS shows a Superman that constantly throws himself out there to save others even when that will cost everything and even when placed in vary hard situations will do his very best.
I'll point to this anon's >>85562824 humerous, if obvious, post to show why that doesn't exactly hold up. A character with nigh godlike powers shown to be in enough control of a situation to utilize them does not have an excuse to let things like this happen (the first of those examples happening with willing nonchalance).

>not perfect
It isn't about perfection, it's about how he fails to live up to--acting against, in fact--his well known and established ideals. See above; instead of finding any one of an infinite number of different solutions, he decided to /give in to the villain's philosophical trap and murder someone that was clearly at a disadvantage/. What "other way" did he find? What kind of hope does that inspire?

>>85563003
There is. But it seems like it's not as good as comic from reviews. I don't wanna see it and check myself because it can ruin impression from original

>>85562756
>We already had Clark acting like an idiot prior to learning to fly
???
>And then he makes out with Lois while people are STILL DYING all around him.
They embrace seconds after they almost died in a black whole where we saw the atoms literally peeling off Clark's face. There was no in between time that Clark had a chance to take in the devastation around him.

>>85562963
Oh yeah, that part where he destroyed an Army drone and said "I'm here, deal with it or else"
So inspirational.

>>85563033
Most of those are stories in which he's ALREADY saved the world (and people) from other things that weren't his fault.

It's one thing if there are net losses in a specific event in Superman's career.

It's another when a movie begins with him not existing, and ends with you being glad he doesn't exist in our world because his entire existence up until that point has been a global catastrophe.

>>85562906
What harm could his reveal done? There are literaly nothing what could happen. He was just raised by asshole coward dad who were too afraid for his invincible son

>>85562981

Don't worry anon. Justice League action and Supermans appearance in Lego Batman will let kids know what he's really about and the DCEU will be dead by the time they're really into movies.

I guess our generation just got shafted

>>85563082
>But it seems like it's not as good as comic
It's not. It isn't offensively bad like MoS, it just doesn't deviate at all from the comics in a noteworthy way. Really doesn't need to exist.

>>85560110
Three fucking years of this shit. Goddammit, can't you guys let it go?

The movie wasn't good. Jesus.

>>85563106
To be fair, that's the closest he got to Superman in the movie. Golden Age Supes, but still Supes

>>85563106

Yes, that part was Superman reminding them that they had to TRUST each other. Spying isn't trusting.

Trusting has to do with faith. You place yourself in someone's hands and trust that person that they won't fail you, like Superman trusted the military and Zod.

>>85562825
I was strongly inspired, seeing someone strive past their flaws & mistakes & endure pain is much more inspiring them someone who waves their hand basically and the problem is solved.
But that is just me.

>>85562994
Every time you say "Mary Sue" you're opinion gets a little more invalidated.
If you're idea of relatable is a reckless, violent, depressed stalker than you need to reevaluate your life.

>>85560110
Fuck no.
Superman does not murder millions of people.
That's what he does in that movie.

>>85563145
Don't you get it anon, due to the other two movies being shitty, MoS IS now "the good one" of the DCEU

>>85563130

In Grant Morrison's Action Comics run The Collector, Lex Luthor, Multitude and pretty much all his enemies only came to Earth or attacked people because of Superman.

>>85563140
I hope you're right. Damn, we really didn't have proper live action or animated dc movie/show for years.

>>85562901
He wasn't hating it when he was smiling after saving the mexican girl.
He is hating it because no matter what good he does the paranoia about him will still be there.
And he was uncomfortable with the mexicans reaction to him because that was going to far in the other direction, he wants people to know he is doing good just because but he doesn't want that to turn into worship.

>>85563102
>There was no in between time that Clark had a chance to take in the devastation around him.
If only he was able to look where we was going and fly at the same time. If only it was established that he could hear things from really far away and see through walls.

Too bad. He just didn't have time to notice all that death around him

>>85562969
Not really, Zod could have found is way to Earth all on his own eventually.

>>85563162
>someone who waves their hand basically and the problem is solved.
Yeah, I hate how most of Superman's most well-known stories end that way.

Oh, wait. They don't.
>>85563186
Again, this is in a universe in which, if Superman didn't exist, lots of worse shit would happen. In MoS, there were no other superheroes, there were no other supervillains. The worst thing that had ever happened in history was because of Superman, and he never even saved anyone before that because his dad told him no.

"X came to earth because of Superman" is very much like "Some of the Gotham villains only exist because of Batman."

It's a good thing both of them solve lots of problems BESIDES the ones they create, isn't it?

Except MoS Supes hadn't.

>>85563250
No he wouldn't.

>>85563181
And they were saying Suicide Squad would be the good one and MoS was trash before SS came out. The same shit will happen when Wonder Woman comes out.

>>85560110
Yeah. BvS was better though and JL will hopefully be better too.

>>85560208
Agreed.

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I think the line between "my supes" and "not my supes" is whether you can IMAGINE the incarnation in question doing pic related.

Superman of DCEU like police in my country, You know that he suppose to protect people and make them feel safe and comfortable, but the only feel you get is feel that you want to get as far from him as you can.

>>85563133
1.) Entire governments sanctioning his death or going to war with the country that harbors him.
2.) Religions collectively going jihad specifically because his existence proves their religion likely false.
3.) Mass suicides because life is not worth living if the after life is proven to not exist which aliens existing implies.

>>85563186
That's the point. Those are things that fall into place after a build up. You don't start you're new version of Superman as a crazy person, and end it with him being the reason Metropolis is leveled.
The only other example would be if Sam Raimi crammed the Venom saga into the first Spider-Man movie.
Even if nothing in MoS was totally out of place for s Superman story, putting it together the way they did just made it all too hard to swallow at once.

>>85563170

No he doesn't

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Guess I'm the only one who likes BvS more than the other DCEU movies. Granted, that's like saying stepping on a rust nail is more enjoyable than getting sodomized by a cactus, but I felt a sizeable amount of enjoyment from that one compared to "it literally offended me as a Superman fan" MoS.

>actually having the gall to do Speed Force time shenanigans
>Batman doing a Rock Bottom, right after he smacks Superman over the head with a sink
>everyone talking in hilariously unsubtle mythology references every other time they opened their mouths
>Wonder Woman's music
>the giddying stupidity of MARTHA

It's not good, but still a good deal more bearable than MoS or the milquetoast SS.

>>85563324
Yeah, that's really fit in edgy and shitty snyderverse. But not in actual DC universe.

>>85563166
Its relatable to be flaws.
Its relatable for him to not instantly be in perfect control of his powers & abilities.
Its relatable for him to have built up rage & spite after 33 years of abuse.

How the fuck is he a stalker???

>>85563285

Yes he would have. The movie makes it quite clear that Zod was tracking down all the old Kryptonian scout ships. He would have found Earth eventually and without Superman everybody would have died

>>85563318
DCEU Superman would have seen the footage of her jumping while making out with Lois and arrive seconds too late to catch the girl before she hit the ground.
But, it's ok, he'd feel reeeeeally bad about it.

>>85563170
I assume your talking about him activating the scout ship which lured Zod here?
Ok so if I buy a new car & serial killer sees me, is jealous & follows me home & kills my neighbors did I murder them?

>>85560110

Are you kidding?

Awful movie. It was like the story board was made then jumbled for no reason. Scene to scene has almost no cohesion between them. I know the story of superman fairly well, but after watching that train wreck I was confused as to what happened in his life.

>>85563233
He was shaken from almost dying, he was concerned for Lois and its also shown he tunes out the outer noises at all times unless he is actively listening in.

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>>85562856

>>85563366
No one is saying he should be absolutely perfect. But goddamn MoS piled it on too thick. He directly saves ONE person as Superman, and it's a fucking soldier and those get paid to die anyway.

>>85563051

MoS is all about trust, choice and consequence. These three things define everything in the movie.

Pa Kent believed that someday Superman would help humanity, but thought that at that point he was too young and immature to shoulder the burden and responsibilities.
Because Superman did act against his father's wishes and saved him then Superman had a warped idea that he and the world would never be ready for one another out of guilt and shame. Later on he's faced with this notion and learn to trust in himself and humanity. Trust, choice and consequence.

For example Zod attacked the planet through two sides of the planet simultaneously. Superman alone wouldn't be able to stop him. So Superman had to trust in the military and the military had to trust in Superman so that they could work together and stop Zod before more people could die. Superman went to handle the biggest threat. Choice and trust.

During the Zod confrontation there was no other way. Zod wouldn't change his mind and wouldn't stop. He'd continue trying to murder Superman and humans in order to hurt Superman. Superman then took his morals aside and did the only thing there was to do. Choice and consequence.

The problem people have with this movie is that you don't have a Superman that stop the bad guys and save the day without any consequence.

Everyone in this thread should listen to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJXZRxOmaOw

>>85563267
>The worst thing that had ever happened in history was because of Superman
I'm pretty sure the world wars, holocaust & many other geopolitical incidents killed more people then the black zero incident did.

>>85563436
>he was concerned for Lois
How romantic. Seriously that's sweet that he just doesn't lift that collapsed wall off that family or save that baby from that burning car over there. Lois is safe and he loves her <3

>>85563471
How many people did the black zero incident kill?

>>85563374
He only gave a shit about killing all the humans because Superman killed all the kryptonians. He also would have never have found the scout ship because Superman wouldn't be there to turn them on.

>>85563334

Grant Morrison's Action Comics started with Superman as a cocky and angry person and ended with a bunch of aliens and villains being created to level Metropolis just because Superman existed.

>>85563334
He isn't even vaguely crazy.
Metropolis is leveled because Zod as a sentient being said the words "release the world engine"

Perfect characterization of DCEU Supes comes from DCEU Supes himself:
"Superman were never real"

>>85563363
No that fits in the real world which is what the DCEU was trying to emulate.

>>85563461
Then neck snap itself has rarely been the part haters take issue with. Fine, it HAD to be done. We get it.
But that moment wasn't earned and it just seemed funny that this one random family suddenly is where Supes draws the line when two seconds prior, he and Zod eye-lasered the fuck out of a few fully populated office buildings.

>>85563516
Incidentally, it also started with him caring about helping people, which he did frequently throughout the whole thing.

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>It's a great film guyz, 8/10!

>Make this same plea for over 3 years, without a break, desperate to make people believe.

Why do we not get this with MCU? It's had it's good and bad films, well-recieved and panned.

Why do we not have daily threads begging people to like the Thor films?

Is it the sub-par Box office of the DCEU? The poor reviews from critics? Are DCfriends trying to will this DCEU to hold together with their blue rings? Why must there be a (daily thread of) Superman?

>>85561037
The only thing really bad about Superman Returns is that it stole too much from the previous Donner movies and it didn't ask enough acting from B. Routh.That, and it STOLE TOO MUCH FROM THE DONNER MOVIES.
It was great that we had a continuation of Superman II that actually tried to continue the story arcs. And it made Superman a dad! The piano scene was awesome!
And the kid having health problems actually precedes MoS where Superman had to acclimate to our environment.
And no, you can't be a deadbeat dad if you don't know you had a kid!

Its probably the most intelligent take on the character in the past 20 years.

Looking to erase the psychosis of the Donner era, and ripping apart the baggage holding back the character in the comics. Its the most credible interpretation of the character and story on the screen ever.

>>85563573

MoS also started with him helping people, which he did frequently throughout the whole movie.

The first scene Superman appears he's saving people despite not having a suit yet.

>>85563514
>He only gave a shit about killing all the humans because Superman killed all the kryptonians.

Factually wrong. He had a terraformer and he would have used it to change the Earth. He wouldn't have cared about the humans. I mean this is shown in the movie when he was going to use said terraformer before the army (Not Superman) killed the Kryptonians

I don't even like the film. It's just funny how wrong and stupid some of the complaints are

>>85563550
That's why DCEU is shit. No one wants another Watchmen with DC heroes. Everyone wants DC heroes in goddamn DC universe

>>85563581
I think it's because a few people really liked it, and a lot hated it, and a few want to troll by making those two groups fight.

>>85563554

Zod had already killed tons of people. That was simple the moment where Superman had the chance to finally end that and took it.

>>85563516
>Grant Morrison's Action Comics started with Superman as a cocky and angry person
And it was pretty divisive if you remember. Nu52 Supes was all around a failed experiment.

>>85563523
>He isn't even vaguely crazy.
He's a 30 year old, invinsible super strong person with x-ray vision and super hearing who gets SO FUCKING MAD at a some redneck who could in no way harm him, that he goes and obliterates the man's livelihood.

DCEU Supes is on the spectrum

>>85563590

Because of Superman Returns Clark date-raped Lois in Superman II.

Superman Returns isn't just a bad movie, it also make the Richard Donner's movies bad retroactively.

>>85560957
She wasn't date-raped! Jesus, she knew what she was doing. Clark only took away the memories after it became clear that Lois was having trouble with his duality.
Which if you really think about it, is the worst offense from Superman II! It's Lois Lane! She should have no problem dealing with Clark being Superman!

>>85563581
Because Marvel didn't open up with a piece of shit, then have their big hype movie also be a piece of shit. Say what you will about the quality of IM and Avengers 1, but they were both coherent movies start to finish

>>85563461
>Pa Kent believed that someday Superman would help humanity, but thought that at that point he was too young and immature to shoulder the burden and responsibilities.
While there is some semblance of a moral quandary with this one, it's really more of a case of it not being a compelling one. For it to exist requires the audience to buy into the concept of everyone on Earth instantly hating someone saving another person's life, which is ironically too cynical to be believable.

>During the Zod confrontation there was no other way.
This, however, is a major problem, as there were countless ways out of the situation. The Phantom Zone and its requisite technology had been established at that point. The headlock was one of many points at which Superman could've moved the fight off plant. Grant Morrison himself points out how Superman was exposed to yellow sun radiation longer than Zod, which would put him at an advantage in physical confrontation. The list goes on, like Superman's powers, endlessly.

It seems that you're reading too much into themes that simply aren't there; each of those are consistently conflicted at several different points throughout the film. Despite his intent, Snyder lacks the technique to layer a film like this with properly developed themes. He's constantly contradicting himself.

>>85563554
>But that moment wasn't earned
How???
>he and Zod eye-lasered the fuck out of a few fully populated office buildings.
No Clark only used his eye beams in Smallville and didn't strike anything except Faora's hand & Non's chest.
He drew the line there because he had him in a head lock which was the first time he had a notable edge in the fight.

>>85563647
>And it was pretty divisive if you remember.

He's golden age Superman in modern times. I never saw the problem

>>85563599
He was able to use the terrorformer because Superman crashed to Earth with the codex.

>>85563581
Because nobody gives a single fuck about Thor or Iron man. But Snyder have ruined comic icons and superior comics universe.

>>85563554
Superman never once lasered through any buildings

Superman never once throws Zod through any buildings in Metropolis

People are literally idiots and straight up make up shit to criticize the film as their fucking underdeveloped brains are unable to cope with what is happening on screen.

Look, Marvel is mopping the floor with DC in terms of movies presently.

On the other hand, DC comics are WAY better than Marvel comics right now and have been since the Bronze age of comics at least.

>>85561065
He was visiting Krypton's grave! Kind of a long way to go to hear a heartbeat!

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>>85563554
>Fine, it HAD to be done. We get it.

No one was Obligated to craft a story where Superman had to brutally kill someone with his bare hands. That's the point.
The story didn't have to be written that way.

Zod and Superman aren't Set and Osiris, or Cain and Abel, or Goku and Raditz.
It's not a vital part of the Superman mythology that he has to kill his nemeses. It's not even expected of the character. It's like having Robin Hood abruptly rape the Sheriff's wife.

>>85563652

What Superman did to Lois is akin to a guy taking a girl to a great date, they go dancing and all, and then at the end of the night he put ruffie in her drink, had his way with her and then left her there without giving his name and phone. Then months later she finds she's pregnant.

He raped her, Jim.

>>85563612
>No one wants another Watchmen with DC heroes
A believable setting with consequences doesn't equal Watchmen,
And flawed characters doesn't make them not heroes.

>>85563581
>Is it the sub-par Box office of the DCEU?

They have so far performed better than half of the MCU. I dunno man. I kinda just want the whole capeshit thing to end.

I'm out after Infinity War anyway

>>85563618
>a few people really liked it, and a lot hated it
No on RT its split 50/50.

>>85561148
So, he's supposed to proclaim the child as his, even as his mother doesn't remember their encounter, and his proclaiming the child as his would put said child in danger.
That, and it was the last five minutes of the movie.
Don't make any judgments until the seq---

Well, never mind!

>>85563742

Goku didn't kill Raditz

The very fact that Superman has to question whether or not to save lives is just--it gives me a headache. Him not being sure as a child, whatever. He should have his shit together by the time he unlocks the Superman skin.
How is this even a conversation?

>>85563762
Not that anon, but...
>A believable setting with consequences doesn't equal Watchmen,
Consequences happen in the DCU.
>And flawed characters doesn't make them not heroes.
Are you saying that the DC comic book characters are perfect? Because if so, you're mistaken.
>>85563794
I was talking about on /co/, since anon asked why threads keep happening here.

>>85563674

>While there is some semblance of a moral quandary with this one, it's really more of a case of it not being a compelling one. For it to exist requires the audience to buy into the concept of everyone on Earth instantly hating someone saving another person's life, which is ironically too cynical to be believable.

But that's not it at all. Pa Kent feared Clark's maturity and resolve, not the outcome of how the world would feel.

Pa Kent knew that how the world would take Clark depended entirely on how Clark would behave. He just feared that with Clark being too young that maybe he wouldn't have the maturity and strength necessary to handle the stress and pressure.

It was Clark that took the cynical approach after Pa Kent's death.

>>85563647
He couldn't harm him but he humiliated him and even when Clark did the right thing and walked away the guy threw the can at him.
The man's truck can be replaced by insurance or the trucking company.

And it wasn't just anger over that one incident it was built up anger from the last 33 years.

>>85561301
Damn, it's like a father being proud of his son's first wet dream!

>>85562586
What about Ra's al Ghul

>>85563714
>Superman never once lasered through any buildings
>Superman never once throws Zod through any buildings in Metropolis
He did drag Zod thru some windows as a spontaneous reaction to Zod punching him into the building opposite but still you basically correct.

>>85563795

You can't just fuck chicks and erase their memories, Kal. It doesn't work like that.

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>>85563777
>They have so far performed better than half of the MCU.
Cape hype has been building since 2008. The DCEU films have consistently made less than the MCU films released in the same year.

Or we can pretend that The Trinity vs Doomsday wasn't supposed to crush "Help me Tony Stark!" at the box office by every DCfriend, including you.

>>85562178

The first Cap movie is one of the fucking GOATs. It's fun as fuck and perfectly adapts his origin to the MCU.

>>85563816

>The very fact that Superman has to question whether or not to save lives is just

Superman never questioned this. He questioned if he could trust people. It's different.

>>85563794
that's just critics. Audience score was Majority liked it.

Its honestly mainly autistic comic book nerds who had an issue with the film, as they are so engulfed into their fantasy world, they are unable to reconcile seeing what they perceive as "their" characters being developed through a real world prism whilst dealing with real consequences.

Wouldn't be surprised to see if most adult comic fans who hate Man of Steel have a stash of Steven Universe episodes on their hard drives. It's a laughable case of arrested development which would be funny if it weren't for the fact that this fanbase is what stifles the creativity in the medium.

>>85562429
But I did.

>>85563742
Look, I'm all for Superman being put in a position were he has to adjust his morals. Even in the comics he's killed the fuck out of things that needed to die.
But there was no lead up to that supposedly being a breaking point. He has this NOOOOO moment for what!? Dude, you fucking did it! Good job! He was ok with every other bullshit thing he did in the story but, man, killing Zod really tears him up.

>>85563834
>But that's not it at all.
No, he's right. Thinking legal age adult Clark was too young to handle the "stress" of being a beloved icon is exactly the kind of ridiculous cynicism he's talking about.

Not to mention that it doesn't matter, since he's Superman, and could save him in the literal blink of an eye.

>>85563742
Correct it didn't have to be written that way.
So you problem is with a artistic choice the filmmaker took not a actual flaw within the film itself.

>>85563898
1. Ra's won't stay dead anyway so it's more like knocking him out.
2. I actually prefer Bats as "I think everyone can be saved," since it makes his refusal to kill the Joker more coherent. He uses dark and edgy as an aesthetic because it works, but he actually does what he does out of love. So I didn't like "the but I don't have to save you" at the end of Batman Begins.

The destruction of Krypton, Kal's mom, Russel Crowe, Kryptonian eugenics, Zod as a maniacal supervillain, the battles between the Kryptonians... It has so much to offer. Flashbacks and Kevin Costner ruined it though.

>>85563749
No because the memory wipe had nothing whatsoever to do with them having sex.

>>85563831

>Consequences happen in the DCU.

The problem is that most people that hate MoS ignore that Superman in the comics isn't perfect and that there are consequences in the comics.

They've this warped view of the character where Superman never did anything bad, never made a mistake, never killed anyone and inspired everyone all around the galaxy at all times.

So they complain that MoS betrayed the idea of what Superman is about because MoS don't fit their head-canon.

>>85563923
Well, origin of Cap is total trash then.

>>85560110
It was a masterpiece.

>>85563816
>The very fact that Superman has to question whether or not to save lives is just--it gives me a headache
He isn't questioning if that is the right thing to do, he is worried that worse things will happen IF he saves those lives publically.

>>85563958

Clark was behaving as an ass just moments prior in the car.

>>85563933
>Superman never questioned this. He questioned if he could trust people. It's different.
No, its not.
He questions if he should save human fucking lives that are in peril. Doesn't matter why, he just does. The outcome is the same.

>>85563977
Also just general stupidity like this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI3eBENgyVQ

>>85563943
>if it weren't for the fact that this fanbase is what stifles the creativity in the medium
Yeah, if only DC felt free to explore characters' dark sides and internal conflicts! DC has been all puppy dogs and sunshine for too long, and we need to see the characters' flaws!

If anything, DC comics has spent too long wallowing in kind of depressing shit at the expense of the high adventure that much of superheroes are about.

>>85563987
People hate MoS because EVERYTHING what DCEU Supes ever done was wrong since his sea adventure with bus.

>>85563960
>So you problem is with a autistic choice the filmmaker took not a actual flaw within the film itself.

Fix'd

>>85563831
>Are you saying that the DC comic book characters are perfect?
Reeve's Superman was.

In a time full of cynicism, every property attempting to be gritty and dark, and a lot of shit going on, the last thing I wanted to see in a Superman movie is for it to emulate the same shit.

I didn't walk in to see a Superman with a lot of self-doubt. I wanted him to inspire me, not leave me in darkness.

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>>85563984

It still doesn't change the fact that Superman fucked Lois, came inside her, erased her memories and then fucked off to space for years so that she couldn't reach him and ask for alimony.

Look, everything they were needed to do is adapt Birthright OR Earth one. That's all. It could be decent and original Supes movie. But they mixed all the shit and made Supes edgelord and Kents are total assholes.

>>85562264
>He seemed to be interested in finding the best use of his powers,
By?

>>85564038
Surrendering to the military to be surrendered to Zod was wrong?
Saving 7-8 Billion lives by destroying the world engine was wrong?
Saving 7-8 Billion lives by killing Zod was wrong?
Sacrificing himself to make sure the nuke hit DD was wrong?
Dying in order to kill DD was wrong?

>>85564064
if you need a fictional character to inspire you, you're a fucking mess anyways, and shouldn't be catered to in any way by any form of entertainment

>>85564032
It's actually worse than I remembered!
God, his Lois obsession is even more off-putting after seeing his shenanigans in BvS.
Just kill Lois already.

>>85564064
>In a time full of cynicism, every property attempting to be gritty and dark
Only Batman & F4 tried this.
The MCU, the Fox-Xverse, the Sony Spiderman stuff wasn't really dark or gritty at all.

>>85564157

She's the first pussy he has known in his 30+ years alive.

>>85564133
Everything you said he has done only because he care about MARTHA and Lois. He doesn't give a fuck about humanity.

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Posting MUH SUPES.

>>85563990

Mate, how do you live with such shit taste

>>85560110
It's certainly my favourite comic book movie. I thought Supes, Zod and Faora were fantastic and it had a boat load of action as well as a strong theme.

I do have to mute it almost every time Pa Kent is on screen though.

>>85564108
Not a single thing Clark did besides maybe trashing the truckers truck was edgy & Pa warning Clark that the needs of the many out way the needs of the few is not being a asshole.

>>85563749
But there was no 'ruffie.' Watch the movie. Superman did not ruffie Lois! They went to bed together willingly, after he revealed himself as Clark/Superman. She chose to go to bed with him
Him then taking her memories away to protect her does not equate to a ruffie.

>>85564183
>liking some trash origin
>talking about shit taste

>>85564182
Nobody but the real superman would ever say anything as schmaltzy as that. He's totally going to blow his cover.

>>85563902
Its what Donner wanted...

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MOS> BVS UE > SS > Bvs

I really liked it in theaters. Actually felt uplifting, great music and fights.

STOP is one of the few things I actively dislike.

>>85564210
>FUCK THESE KIDS, CLARK.
>FUCK HUMANITY
>WE LIVE IN SHITTY PSEUDO-REALISTIC SNYDERVERSE, SO, HIDE FOREVER AND FORGET ABOUT SAVING PEOPLE

>>85564176
He barley knew Lois when he surrendered to the military.
If he did it only for her then why did he go and get a human opinion on what he should do with the Priest?
If he doesn't care about humanity why did he save the bus, or the oil rig or the falling solider?
Lois/Martha wasn't in direct danger when he held onto Doomsday and took a nuke to the face.

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>>85564211

Superman pulled a "Talia al Ghul" on Lois' ass.

>>85562906
>Its bad to have a believable character instead of a flawless mary sue?
There we go.
Look. I'm going to be fully blunt here. Until you recognize there's a difference between "flaweless mary sue" and "conflicted sullen alien' you're never going to come close to making a good point.

Superman can get mad. Superman can be sad. But that can't be the focus. The AGGREGATE FULL TAKE AWAY cannot be somber or depressing.

Superman can kill. Superman can fail. Superman can even die. AFTER YOU ESTABLISH CONTEXT. MOS DID NOT.

If you build the character on fear you can't sell him as brave. If you build the character on paranoia you can't ask the audience to trust him. If you build the character on the negative aspects of humanity, you can't then say "but he's a humanist!"

But you're too retarded to grasp any of this. You're too busy jerking off to "muh serious realistic tone"

I got news for you. If I want realism I'll turn on CNN. Superman as an idea is only worthwhile if he's ABOVE the norm.

>>85564226

What do you actually have a problem with in the movie?

>>85564281
But the REASON FOR HIDING is that not doing so would harm humanity, HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU BE THIS DENSE!!!

>>85564285
>Supes need RELIGION to make a decision
That's just disgusting and pathetic

>>85564210
Clark letting Pa die, for any reason, despite so obviously having a million and ten alternatives is asshole-ish.
The movie itself shows he's got the abilities to save Pa right then and there while not full on outing himself as Super.
To try to explain that shit away is to inject too much head canon and death of the author crap.

>>85564281
Mate, one day you'll develop critical thinking skills

I believe in you

And then you'll realize the world isn't black and white

And you'll also realize there is nuance in the performance of an actor, and the way he moves and says things directly affect what they mean, and heck you'll actually be able to understand dialogue for what it really means.

But until then, you'll just be a laughably ignorant pleb.

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Can you imagine if something like this happened at the end of MoS?

>>85564032
You just beat the machine destroying the city.
You just saved your girl from death.
She nearly died except for you.
You just kept yourselves from being pulled into a blackhole.
You wouldn't kiss your girl..?

Been a Superman fan for over twenty years, and I loved it. Most of the complaints are applicable to the comics and the DCAU, and no one loses their shit over those.

Also, I felt Superman was likable enough. He's a regular guy who is suddenly thrust into an unfamiliar situation. He's going to make a few mistakes. Just because he put on the suit, it doesn't instantly make him an expert on fighting Zod and co. You don't instantly become a pro artist when you pick up a pencil. Really, most of the complaints seem to be 'not muh X'.

It wasn't a perfect film, the product placement was obnoxious (though to be fair, Superman II was pretty bad with that as well) and Pa Kent's death was handled poorly, though I could see what they were going for.

>>85564322
BECAUSE THAT'S A BULLSHIT EXCUSE! Hoe does that even make sense!?
Pa was not talking about the possibility of there being a Zod, so what the fuck? Where are you getting that shit?

>>85564365

MoS haters would say that he's raping the kid or some shit or that he only saved the world because of CRYING KID while not giving a fuck to the rest of humanity. Or then that a kid shouldn't be crying in a Superman movie, he should be happy.

>>85564073
So all would be fine if he had just stayed around for a three or four months - just to make sure..?

>>85564408
Do you seriously think every single person who didn't like MoS is just making up excuses? Is it inconceivable to you that someone might just not like it?

>>85564393
He's fixated on Lois, rather than the twenty other people who just got flattened by falling debris.
And then he stands there sucking face WHILE THE CITY IS ON FIRE.

>>85564322
That's the point of my words, retard. Pa Kent is asshole because he lives in asshole pseudo-realistic universe where revealing of Superman would harm
>>85564345
Dude, stop trying to be funny. Your sense of humor is disgusting.

>>85564425

Well, yeah? Or at least use some condoms.

>>85564305
>MOS DID NOT.
The destruction Zod caused was the context that made it necessary.
>If you build the character on fear you can't sell him as brave
Why the fuck not? Its not brave to go out and do the morally right thing even tho people will hate and fear you regardless?
>If you build the character on paranoia you can't ask the audience to trust him
But we follow the character the whole way we see that he is noble and trust worthy when the world of the DCEU can not.
> If you build the character on the negative aspects of humanity, you can't then say "but he's a humanist!"
He is a humanist because he saved 7-8 billion lives 3 times and died to do so the 3rd time.
You can be honest about humanities dark nature & still believe they deserve to exist & are worthy saving.

>>85564399
>Also, I felt Superman was likable enough. He's a regular guy who is suddenly thrust into an unfamiliar situation. He's going to make a few mistakes. Just because he put on the suit, it doesn't instantly make him an expert on fighting Zod and co. You don't instantly become a pro artist when you pick up a pencil. Really, most of the complaints seem to be 'not muh X'.
He has literately two movies already. How many more will he need before he graduates and become Superman for real?

>>85564438
A large portion of the hate does come from either straight up made up criticisms or a lack of sophistication on the viewer's part

>>85564327
No it had nothing to do with the Priest's religion, it was about him getting the opinion of a trust worthy human being.

>>85564438

I just think that most people don't like it for dumb reasons and are being extremely nitpicky.

>People actually defend Thor-tier movie of Supes, one of the most iconic character with lots of great stories
Pathetic

>>85564032
ewwwwww girls

>>85564466
He seems to be doing a pretty good job in BvS. He's going around saving people and stopping disasters. Hell, he even takes Doomsday out of Metropolis as soon as he can. It's the rest of the world who is paranoid and distrustful of him.

>>85563917

>Including you

Yep just ignore the other half of my post where I said I want this all to end

>>85564406
He was talking about humanities own reaction to Superman not about exterior threats like Zod.
He said this will change humanity, science, religion our very notion of our existence in this universe.

wars & genocides have started over smaller things.

>>85564483
>Supes can't make decision, did he care about humanity or not
Still disgusting and pathetic

>>85564444
Okay, your GF is falling through the air, and there are people trapped under rubble. So, you start digging as your GF goes splatt...

And the kiss was thirty seconds. Give it a rest. If it wasn't a kiss, I think you'd have a problem with it if they were simply holding hands.

'How can he be holding her hand while people are trapped!?!'

>>85564533
>It's the rest of the world who is paranoid and distrustful of him.
That's Superman's own fault too. After all, why is it that humanity's first contact with Aliens was Zod, a psychopath out to commit genocide? It is because Clark Kent thinks it makes sense that he doesn't have to show up and make a good impression first, and waited so long that someone else jumped the gun for him. You can only make a good first impression ONCE, and Clark blew it.

>>85564454
>The destruction Zod caused was the context that made it necessary.
Not what I'm talking about smart guy. I'm talking about the context of Clark not having a no kill code before said code is tested. There's no "he was pushed to do something he didn't want really to do". And this is the director's own words so I don't give a shit how you want to justify it; Snyder flat out said Clark didn't have a No Kill Code until after killing Zod.

So there's no fucking point to it.

>Why the fuck not? Its not brave to go out and do the morally right thing even tho people will hate and fear you regardless?
When the narrative is the only reason you're doing it? No, it isn't. Clark is a coward, too afraid of what MIGHT go bad to do anything of his own volition until it's too late for anything but the worst possible thing to happen.

>But we follow the character the whole way we see that he is noble and trust worthy when the world of the DCEU can not.
We really don't. We see that he's a plot device.

>He is a humanist because he saved 7-8 billion lives 3 times and died to do so the 3rd time.
Do you know what a humanist is? By definition MoS Clark can't be because he accepts a paranoia and superstition. You know, all that shit you say is "realistic".

>>85564557
Its not about caring for humanity or not, its about trusting them or not. You care love something & not trust it.

>>85564543
It didn't start wars or shit like this in normal DC universe. Kents are shit because they were put in shitty snyderverse in the first place

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>>85564252
>he thinks bumbling fat fuck Kent is Superman

>>85564452
End of the seventies man. Free love!

>>85564543
He was right. Look at the scene in BvS where all the scientists, pundits, and politicians are talking about him.

I personally like seeing Superman as a fallible human. He was that in the DCAU.

Though given how many people whine about DCAU Supes being a paranoid asshole, seems to me like the only correct version is Messiahman.

>>85564621
>You care love something & not trust it.
Wow.
......Wow.

>>85564607
>>85564533

Rest of the world my ass. It was all Lex Luthor and the US needing power. The media just jumped on it because it was controversy and controversy sells. Media is dead.

>>85561471
>There are plenty of versions that would've been perfect, anon. The problem was that Snyder combined (at least) three of them, didn't respect their contexts, and then added a bunch of shit that wasn't (thing) at all
This is Snyder in a nutshell, honestly. He did most of it with Watchmen, too. Snyder thinks that just adapting some comic panels faithfully as storyboards is enough.

>>85564478
>>85564485
I went into Superman wanting a noble hero who saves people and who sees the S on his shirt as a symbol that can give other people hope, who may waver but ultimately always does the right thing, and who, as has been mentioned by others, is the kind of person who would do this:
>>85563318
and this:
>>85564365

I left having seen a Superman who reminds me of a less intelligent, less funny Spider-Man.

They showed him saving the world. They showed other people helping him find himself.

They never showed him having found himself, being Superman in full, the open, loving hero who wants everyone to know they can be a hero too.

>>85564621
>Supes doubted if he can sacrificed billions of human lifes because lack of trust
Still disgusting and pathetic

>>85564647
>He was right.
He MADE them right.

>I personally like seeing Superman as a fallible human. He was that in the DCAU.
Then why wasn't his PR this bad there?

>Though given how many people whine about DCAU Supes being a paranoid asshole, seems to me like the only correct version is Messiahman.
Oh. Headcanon again.

>>85564533
Yeah, because he knew Zod was coming...

I didn't know that telling the future was part of Superman's powers.

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>>85560110
>This guy again

>>85564647
>Having THAT shit taste
Oh, God

>>85564607
>Clark Kent thinks it makes sense that he doesn't have to show up and make a good impression first

>It's Superman's fault that he didn't know Zod would show up.
Superman can't see the future. Plus, prior to Zod appearing, he was helping people. Just discreetly, as not to be tailed.

>>85564655
Not that anon, and I'm not saying anything for or against MOS, but you can.

Suppose you have a family member with a drug problem and you know they'll lie to you, steal from you, do whatever they can to get drugs. Until they've got serious help, they cannot be trusted. So they're going to check themselves in on Monday, because they could only go in now if it was an emergency. In the meantime, you don't leave them alone with anything that's both expensive and easy to move, and less because you care about the thing than because you don't want them being able to buy more meth or whatever they're hooked on. But at the same time, you'd take a bullet for them.

>>85564611
It wasn't put into the film to break his no kill code, it was put in the film because it was the morally right thing to do.
>"he was pushed to do something he didn't want really to do"
Him begging Zod to stop didn't convey that? His distraught scream afterwards didn't convey that?
>When the narrative is the only reason you're doing it? No
He chose to go out and help people before Zod arrived.
>By definition MoS Clark can't be because he accepts a paranoia and superstition. You know, all that shit you say is "realistic".
>Humanism is a philosophical and ethical stance that emphasizes the value and agency of human beings, individually and collectively, and generally prefers critical thinking and evidence (rationalism, empiricism) over acceptance of dogma or superstition.

ALL evidence & rational thinking in the world proves humanity is inconsistent, violent and a untrustworthy bunch. That is provable fact.

>>85564766
>I don't trust human race
>Let them be eridicated by Zod because of it
Wow, so Superman

>>85564678
What??? No not dealing with Zod was never on the table, it was about if he should surrender to humanity or to Zod directly.

>>85564861
I'm not that anon, like I said. I was just responding to your quote and your response to it. I haven't even read upward in the conversation.

Superman has never had a good film. The original ones are crap too.

>Inconsistencies (Lex somehow knows Kryptonite will hurt Superman, Jor-El mentions thousands of years for Superman to reach earth, yet Lex says Krypton exploded in 1948)
>Lois is a chain smoking idiot
>Lex is a wisecracking goofball
>Spinning the earth backwards
>Symbolism just as heavy handed as MoS
>Superman cheerfully murders Zod

Why does Snyder seem so eager to jump the gun? Byrne took two years in the comics before he had Supes kill off the Phantom Zone criminals (not to mention Superman had been operating for years in-universe by that point). Then he does it again by having Doomsday kill Superman in only his second appearance. Just seems like there should be some more context first; it'd be like having the first Flash movie be a straight up adaptation of COIE.

>>85564861
HE WAS NEVER CONSIDERING NOT SAVING THEM FROM ZOD, he was trying to decide how to do it.

>>85564752
>Superman can't see the future. Plus, prior to Zod appearing, he was helping people. Just discreetly, as not to be tailed.
You seriously think Superman was going to be the only Space Alien in the DC universe? The entire argument was that Earth wasn't ready for aliens, but Clark literally did NOTHING to get Earth ready!

It's not like he put up a forcefield around Earth, there was always going to be another alien showing up at some point. What did Clark do in between the Tornado and Zod? Did he do ANYTHING to get humanity ready for aliens? Did he care?

No, he just assumed that there are no other aliens. That it doesn't matter that Earth isn't ready. That he couldn't be bothered to be the living ambassador of what a "good" alien" is suppose to be.

Earth went berserk after Zod, because Zod was the one who showed humanity what Aliens are, and defined what aliens are. Superman is now judged as a potential Zod, a potential psychopath, because Superman didn't do what he was suppose to do. He was suppose to get Earth ready, but he did NOTHING.

>>85564895
>Superman cheerfully murders Zod
You know an inability to read people is a sign of ass burgers? Seriously.

Considering how much DC likes to have actors from other continuities make cameos. I'm surprised Tom Welling didn't make a Cameo.

>>85564902
Because he wanted to make it clear from the begining this Superman will not stand by and let people die just to keep blood off his hands.
And he is using the DOS to inspire other heroes and to cement Superman's trustworthiness with humanity.

>>85564880
>>85564920
>Superman doubted in humanity.
>Symbol of hope doubted if he want to go to people or to man who threatened to humanity
Hmm

>>85560110
Nigger, it's most well-received DCEU movie, what the fuck are you talking about?

>>85564975
>>Superman doubted in humanity.
Yes that is the fucking point, giving us a Superman who is not a naive fucking idiot.

>>85564942
How was he supposed to get earth ready? The Jor-El AI flat out told him he was the last of his kind. How the hell would Clark know that other aliens would one day show up in his lifetime just because he happened to?

>>85564948
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxA5ECu2u3A

What happens here then?