Now that the dust has settled, /co/, what was your honest opinion

>>85252424
Bland. The Russo brothers wrote it in an attempt to give Honest Trailers and Cinema Sins nothing to make fun of, and it shows.

It's great.

Also completely averted the third movie curse, for once.

I overhyped it myself, it was a solid movie, nothing really surprised me. Saw everything coming, had a few minor flaws here and there (why the fuck did zemo try to drown a guy upside down when his NOSE AND MOUTH WERENT IN THE WATER??). Hate how it spawned a meme of ZEMO BEST VILLIAN OMG GENIUS like chill it was all luck

It's good
personally, i left the theatre having a good ol time. my mates and i were talking about all the cool parts
thats all there is to it

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>now that the dust has settled

Even with your memetic language it's still great bud

>>85252424
Officially made Captain America the first superhero to have a consistently great superhero trilogy.

Never would have imagined that would be the case ten years ago.

It was good but it felt too much like a set-up movie.

>>85252424
Everything was great except one thing:
STYLE.
Russos's movies look bland as fuck and the soundtrack was pretty generic. I felt like watching a TV episode. Can't they afford a cinematographer, for fucks sake?

>>85252424
I fucking loved it 11/10

It was good, one of my favorite superhero movies so far.

>>85252507
True geniuses know how to use luck to their advantage.

>>85252650
Also
>now that the dust has settled

I want /tv/ memes to die already.

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THANK YOU BASED RUSSOS

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It handled the ensemble cast well while still making it all center around Cap. It also gave great introductions to Black Panther and Spider-Man.

>>85252443
The Russos didn't write it though.

>>85252735
THANK YOU BASED RUSSOS

So they start filming Infinity War this year, right? We should get the cast announcement pretty soon.

>>85252424
So good people take all it did for granted. It did a bunch of small miracles like making avoiding the third movie curse, making a balanced 3rd movie for Cap, Avengers and a 4th for Tony, never villainized one of them, made falcon cool, introduced Panther perfectly with like 11 minutes of Screentime, used the little available Zemo time and integrated it with the plot, gave a satisfying third act for a Marvel movie.

It's not without it's flaws, but it what it did do right compared to the task they had ahead of them, they knocked it out of the fucking park.

>>85252790
They always help co-write and design the story. Also, Russos = Joe Russo, Anthony Russo, Marcus Russo and McFeely Russo.

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Manages to be huge and bombastic whilst maintaining a narrative and script as tight as a Nun's butthole.

I personally place it as the second best MCU movie on the basis that it lacked the flare and style that Guardians of the Galaxy had.

>>85252424
It was okay. 7/10

It was way better than it had any right to be, considering how much was packed into it. It should have been an absolute clusterfuck, but nothing was confusing or convoluted.

I genuinely didn't like it. I found the entire plot forgettable and felt the central conflict between Stark and Rogers was badly established. Just after age of ultron, what stark wanted made him seem stupid as all fuck.

The acting was great, the action was a lot of fun and as MCU films go it was one of the better ones, but the plot was deeply unfulfilling.

>>85252828
I didn't like it as much as Winter Soldier, but honestly I'm still shocked this movie turned out as good as it did.

Civil War could've easily turned into such a big hot mess it's not even funny. I dread the alternate timeline where it wasn't made by this team of writers/directors, the amount of characters and character introductions and plotlines and shit source material calls for an absolute disaster. Somehow, they made it work pretty well.

>>85252892

Not a DCcuck either, BvS is an awful film [spoilers]that I enjoyed in spite of everything because of Jeremy Irons[/spoiler]

>>85252879
funny how this in "reverse" describes batmanvsupes

>>85252892
>Just after age of ultron, what stark wanted made him seem stupid as all fuck.
Memes aside, what did you mean by this?

I thought it was completely in character for Tony to side with the Accords. ESPECIALLY after the events of Age of Ultron. Same with Cap, him choosing to go against them was in character after the events of Winter Soldier.

>>85252424
It's great. Cap has the best trilogy. MCU spidy is best spidy. Winter Soldier is still better though.

>>85252930
Irons is good in everything though except from that Dungeons & Dragons movie

>>85252593

>It was good but it felt too much like a set-up movie.

This will b every MCU from now on. The movies will go like the comics that everything is in a constant state of buildup and hype. I've gotta be honest it will be a struggle for me to be invested in the MCU after Infinity war because it's going to give me comic flashbacks where an event is finished and we have to move onto the next one

>>85252916
I've used this examples many a times:

Winter Soldier : Simple dive into a pool, perfect form, no splash
Civil War : million twists and turns and flips, good form, some minimal splash

They are impressive for the opposite reasons, and watching a second TWS would've just been boring.

Avengers : cannonball into the pool - big intentional fun splash
Avengers 2 : second cannon ball by a fatter guy trying to be as funny as the first one
BvS : trip and fall into the concrete

>>85252424
Considering the inevitable problems created by having a Civil War movie this early in the timeline I think that the Russo brothers did a great job.

>>85252879
What this guy said, absolutely.

>>85252991
>Avengers 2 : second cannon ball by a fatter guy trying to be as funny as the first one
top kek, that's a pretty good analogy

>>85252424
It was a good movie but Iron Man was completely in the right. Ross too, to a lesser extent. The film tried way too hard to dance around the issues it presented.

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>>85252991
When you put it like that...

>>85253088
>Iron Man was right

But that's wrong.

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>>85252991
Those descriptions are perfect.

>>85253088

Of course Iron man was right. Nobody seems to remember that when Cap first fucks off to get Bucky he has no idea that he's innocent.

>>85253088
>>85253133
Oh fuck, are we going to do this again?

We never reach any conclusion with this Cap side vs Iron Man side stuff.

>>85253133
It's really not. The Avengers have never cared about collateral damage and need a leash. Every Superhero team does. And Bucky was far too dangerous to be left alone.

>>85253172
Alright, let's mutually agree Ross was wrong and move on.

I don't remember a single thing from this movie, just like I don't remember anything from winter soldier besides the elevator and knife fight.

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>>85252424
I settled on begrudgingly calling it good.

But I have severe gripes with it. First off the movie didn't need more than T'Chala, especially since the movie already has to do character work with Vision, Wanda, Bucky, Cap and Steve. Spider-Man was a completely pointless diversion that doesn't do anything for the story and Ant-Man is such an afterthought to the story, he literally has no reason to be there.

It borders on Amazing Spider-Man 2 territory. Trying to play with all toys at once and just throwing everything in there.

And then there's the absolutely inconclusive open ending.
The only thing the ending actually resolves is that Zemo now wears handcuffs. The emotional conflict is left wide fucking open and after a movie that already was a bit inconcise not having any real conclusion to it all makes it just feel like what it ultimately will be an asterisk in the opening sequence of Infinity War:

>*Captain America and Iron Man started hating each other back in Captain America: Civil War
>- Find-it Feige

>>85253151
He went to bring Bucky in himself and prevent Bucky from either getting killed or killing someone in self-defense.

>>85253186
Sure.

ROSS DID NOTHING WRONG

>>85253088
>but Iron Man was completely in the right
I'm not gonna argue against you, but a lot of people agree that it was very one sided. The problem is that it's split nearly 50:50 as to which side was "obviously" right. Now you can argue the side opposite of yours is dumb, but that doesn't reduce it's merit, wince that was exactly the point of the movie. In the first 2 weeks you had a lot of discussion threads everywhere with people arguing both for and against both sides, and never reaching a consensus.

They played their audience like Zemo played the characters.

>>85252424
Its boring. They spend almost all the movie talking or introducing new Heros. I liked it and watched it two times when it came out but being honest. I wouldn't watch it again.

>>85253212
>It borders on Amazing Spider-Man 2 territory.

Quit talking stupid.

>>85253209
dory pls

>>85253179
>The Avengers have never cared about collateral damage

The third acts of both Avengers movies are about them doing their best to reduce civilian casualties and collateral damage.

>>85253212
>The emotional conflict is left wide fucking open
That was the point, though. Cap has a 3-arc story beginning in TWS, going through CW and ending in IW. Tony as a similar one (albeit initially at the hands of Whedon) starting in AoU.

I know that it doesn't match the numbers in the titles, but you still haven't seen the final chapter. That's like saying that Empire was inconclusive.

>>85253241
>Its boring
>I liked it
>watched it two times
>I wouldn't watch it again
Damn anon, you're really tsundere when it comes to this movie.

>>85252424
Honestly, it's probably my favourite of the MCU movies. It managed to carry all of those characters whilst still rooting itself as a sequel to The Winter Soldier. It managed to blend the right amount of humour without going overboard, which is something that Whedon failed at, and the characters were all shown in a believable light, and didn't feel as one sided as it did in the comic.

>>85253212
Ant-Man and Spider-Man were there to represent the superhero community at large and how Cap and Stark are iconic leaders within that.

>>85253219

How about sending the invincible android? How about bringing that Android with you to Africa so he can step in when things go to shit? How about taking the invincible android with him to fight the supersoldiers who couldn't hurt him in any possible way?

Why does Cap hate Vision?

>>85253309

> were all shown in a believable light

Except Ant-Man

>>85253319

They were there to bring in more money for the movie

>>85252424
I geeked out when Ant-Man became Giant-Man.

>>85253372
It was presented as a specific training mission for Wanda. They wouldn't want two rookies on the job and attract attention to the red dude with the cape (although this part could've been easily avoided).

The fact that Crossbones was there was news to them. It was just another mission.

>>85253394
He should've been used to retrieve the Shield and the Wings, but they wanted Agent 13 to show up as much as they could manage. Also, probably didn't want to have Pym Particles vs. Vibranium on camera and force themselves into a writing corner.

It was a fun time. Arguably better than the source material, but again it suffers from a weak villain

>>85253372
There's a chance that invincible android will kill Bucky because, lol, why not. He teamkilled in the movie as it is.

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>>85253461
>Arguably better than the source material
>Arguably

>>85252424
Enjoyable, it bothers me though that people keep flying (heh) to the airport battle when I found the chase scene one of the more interesting bits of action in the MCU so far.
Every single fucking inch of that Apartment was used and when Bucky gets out he's hauling ass like a professional, only stopped when T'Challa equally ups the ante and Warmachine gets involved as a roadblock for what was about to pop off.
You could feel the sheer desperation in just about every action Steve, T'Challa and Bucky take and it silently gets across everything you need to know about them.
The Airport stuff was sort of just a back and forth slapfest square dance. Take this, take that, line drop, reset, change partners.

Spidey vs Falcon and Bucky was also good, but short. I'd rank it Chase Scene > Lagos stuff showing Team Cap's synergy > Airport > Final Fight

Don't get me wrong, the final fight's team combo thing was cool and all, but what the fuck, Stark? I know they're super soldiers but just get the higher ground and rain down death. Drawn out for nothing.

If I'm honest I didn't really care about the other material as much. I don't think it's bad, just not as engaging to me. The guilt, vulnerability and stumbling but well meaning efforts to make up for it that Stark and Wanda go through, Scott accepting his true place in the world might pit him against the better interests of the world, Widow and Hawkeye torn between sides, Glossing over Peter's reasons without bloating them out and all those little things were well done, tightly paced and all but just not very compelling compared to what Steve and Bucky seemed to be going through.

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>>85252424

The Airport scene was fun, but it was COMPLETELY out of tone with the rest of the movie.

You have this political-thriller kind of movie with Superheroes, and then you throw in Ant-Man/Spider-Man quipping all over the place.

Based Russos gonna make Tasha/Bucky a reality though

>>85253442
>The fact that Crossbones was there was news to them. It was just another mission.

There is no reason that you would not take somebody like Vision with you on a mission even if it's training just in case things go horribly wrong (Which they did). Cap didn't need to include him in the ground work just keep him back for support if needed. To avoid anyone seeing him just have him float way up in the sky

>>85252991
That was more accurate than it has the right to be.

>>85253465
>There's a chance that invincible android will kill Bucky because, lol, why not.

Even though he's been shown to be the most passive member of the Avengers?

I liked it, but I don't think it was as good as Winter Soldier.

>>85252507

Just fyi - the guy upside down would eventually drown when the sink his head was in filled up with water.

>>85253319
Ok, if that was the idea, that just didn't work for me.
Yeah, they now have scenes where people say
>wow you're Captain America
>wow you're Iron Man
but I don't really see how that helps the movie in any way.
Also that shit belongs in act 1 not into the last scene before the big act 2 set-piece.
Too bad act 1 was scrapped for time and it consisted of half an action sequence before it ends and kicks off the plot, one scene for Tony and I guess you could maybe count Peggie's funeral. But if we're counting that then things already start looking really disjointed because the plot is already going full steam at that point.

That reminds me:
>Before she died, my aunt always used to say "Steve, don't sign the fucking Sokovia accords."
Real subtle.

>>85253526
But then they'd have to manage an untrained Vision and and untrained Wanda, was my point. It went iffy as it was, and Vision is a nervous wreck when he actually does need to use his powers.

We both know exactly why he wasn't there, but it still made sense within the story.

>>85253510
To be fair, you can't really do TWS-like action with the other Avengers. For an Acenger fight, I thought it was super exciting and better than anything Whedon did in his movies.

I too prefer hand to hand combat/car chases/grounded shit that's perfect for characters like Cap, but you can't expect something like that with Ant-Man or Scarlet Witch or Iron Man.

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>>85252991
That... Is actually a really good analogy, anon.

Good job.

Better than TWS which shits the bed in the Helicarrier section even though the rest of the movie is perfect

>>85253488
Ok so it is better than the source material

>>85253298
>That's like saying that Empire was inconclusive.
But most of Empire builds up to the final chase scene. Luke must chose between his training and his friends, at the end he chooses his friends and at great cost, he saves them and they live to fight another day.
That's a great way to wrap your middel movie.

If the movie is about "these two people are at odds over this unresolved issue", then ending the movie with "these two people are at odds over this unresolved issue" is a terrible way to do it.

Alright lads, choose

http://www.strawpoll.me/10939918

>inb4 contrarians who would choose Cap 1

>>85252424
Fun.
More fun than I had reading the comic book.

>>85253718
It would've been if the whole movie wasn't specifically for explaining how they got there in the first place.

I dunno, it felt logical to me, and I don't think Cap not apologising at the end would've been a more out of character. Killing him just to bring him back and never show in the next movie how he dealt with the guilt would've also been a cop out.

I'm not saying it's as good as Empire, just that it was a "to be continued..." by design.

>>85252735

Thank you, based Russos.

>>85252806
>So they start filming Infinity War this year, right?

November.

> We should get the cast announcement pretty soon.

As if we really need it. We already know it's going to have all the Avengers, Ant-Man, Spider-Man, Dr. Strange, Thanos and The Guardians of the Galaxy.

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>>85252991

>>85253812
I'm curious if Loki or Hela will be in it. There were some rumors that Loki would replace Mephisto in the story and Hela would replace Death.

>>85252424
It's extremely vainilla, Steve3 is a fascist and the bully he was talking about when he was young but that isnt intentional, the airport fight was terrible. And it looked like a tv show.


The movie should had been Black panther vs captain america and you would had have a better movie. BP was the only rational character.

>>85252991
Well done, my son.

>>85253771
see >>85252991
They are both good by the exact opposite reasons. Pitching them together is meaningless, because it boils down to mood and preference.

>>85253812
Captain Marvel too, possibly without her powers.

>>85252443
>nothing to make fun of
Are you kidding me? There's tons of holes in it.

>>85252930
Yeah, based Irons being retired cop buddies with Batfleck was the best thing for me too.

>>85252611
That's exactly what The Russos brothers style is.

>>85253776
>it was a "to be continued..." by design.
I like how they renamed Infinity War Part 1 and Part 2 now so Part 1 hopefully doesn't have to be another "to be continued..." by design.

>>85253895
It's still gonna be two parts of the same story. They'll just be separate enough to each have 3 acts, instead of a massive second act cliffhanger with no pay-off in the first one. They'll still have a cliff hanger, but still some resolution within the movie.

>>85253556
freight car.

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>>85253440

>>85253212
>The emotional conflict is left wide fucking open
They intentionally didn't want Steve and Tony to repair their relationship in the end. Because this film is about the breaking of the Avengers, and they want to keep it that way to justify why they are missing during all the solo films coming up. Zemo won. This was also why they didn't kill anyone, as even a single death would cause reconciliation at the funeral.

>>85253853
>BP was the only rational character.
He was on a vengeance mission until he encountered Zemo busy blowing his brains out.
He relentlessly attacked Bucky because of some nebulous news footage off the site of the explosion that killed his father, even though Bucky was just defending himself, not attacking.

>>85253849
>I'm curious if Loki or Hela will be in it.

Loki probably will, if rumors about him being a consultant to Thanos on his assault on earth are any true. Doubt Hela will be in it. She'll probably bite it in Thor 3 like Laufey and Malekith did in their respective appearances.

>>85253860
>Captain Marvel too, possibly without her powers.

In all likelihood, yeah. I did unfortunately miss her. Though she'll probably get her powers in the movie.

>>85252611
They're TV directors, so.
But I agree. Ultron felt a lot "grander" in scale, and I'm worried how Infinity War is going to look.

>>85252593
I disagree on that. Aside from Spider-Man who was super blatant, I felt that it was a natural progression and end to some plotlines from earlier movies.

>>85253212
Ant-Man was also there because he and Scarlet Witch were by far the most powerful people on Team Cap, everyone else was just some flavor of super soldier, it would have been completely one sided without them.

Hell, Giant-Man was 100% the reason Cap and Bucky were able to get out of there, because he was soloing all of team IronMan at once.

>>85254045
I wonder how many people who didn't watch Ant-Man went to watch it after seeing Civil War. A lot of my friends did that, everyone loved him in the movie.

>>85254113
>Though she'll probably get her powers in the movie.
Yeah, probably gets into a comma after sacrificing herself in her plane to show her bravery before she gets powers, like they did with Steve.

>>85252424
Fun
Forgettable

>>85252592
>consistently great superhero trilogy.
But everyone hates the second half of CA1.

>>85253945
>It's still gonna be two parts of the same story.

Doubtful. There's going to be a year's gap between both movies. The events of Captain Marvel's movie happens between for crying out loud.

>>85254147
Hate is a pretty strong word.

Not as good as the first half, but I still enjoyed it. Ending was really good.

>>85253172
>We never reach any conclusion with this Cap side vs Iron Man side stuff.
It's almost as if that's the point of the conflict.

>>85254212
>Wanda and Vision pizza
Gets me every time.

>>85253515
>Based Russos gonna make Tasha/Bucky a reality though
It's been stated that it doesn't really fit in with the MCU.

>>85254089
>They intentionally didn't want Steve and Tony to repair their relationship in the end
It's clear by the ending that Tony doesn't hate Steve and that Steven is willing to work with Tony again if need be. It's not as broken as one would think.

>>85254289
>It's clear by the ending that Tony doesn't hate Steve and that Steven is willing to work with Tony again if need be. It's not as broken as one would think.
No, but they are not in contact. No one expect the Avengers to be broken forever, but Nemo did do what he set out to do. Zemo would have preferred if Bucky had died, or if Steve killed Tony. Either would have done permanent damage. But Steve managed to minimise the effects and it is a credit to him.

>>85253622
>and better than anything Whedon did in his movies.
Disagree. As good as the airport fight was, it lacked a good spectacle aspect that really sold it as "hero vs hero". Then again, that's probably because everyone was mostly pulling punches on purpose.

>>85254212
I'm going to need a meme break down.

>>85254289
The team being divided at the end of the movie is the reason they're going to be fucked so hard by Thanos. It's more of a temporary truce because they both realized they hurt a lot of people and each other in their fight than an agreement to brush everything aside and be besties again.

Everyone talking about Cap and Stark's relationship going forward, but I never see mentioned the fact that Steve is no longer Captain America.

Russos confirmed he rejected the Cap identity at the end, so I wonder how it will be in IW. Will he get the Nomad identity? What uniform will he wear before embracing the flag again? Will we see operator Steve Rogers now that he doesn't have the shield?

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>>85254212
>that Vision

>>85254412
They had those black uniform concepts they didn't use, I wonder if we'll see some variation of that in IW. It's hard to imagine him taking on any larger combat role against Thanos, especially without the shield.

>>85252424
I wasn't that impressed with it. Wasn't enough super hero action for me in a movie about Civil War.

>>85252467
It skirted the third movie curse by changing the brand of the "trilogy" completely. It went from a Captain America movie to an Avengers movie. Don't try to argue otherwise.

And what a poorly timed subject matter. If the world governments were going to intervene on superhero activity at all, they should have done it immediately after the Chitauri invasion. But the film was openly admitted to be a reaction to BvS, and you can see how hard it was forced.

>>85254599
>and you can see how hard it was forced.
But the change was done in pre-production I believe.

>>85254599
it was bvs and i think rdj wanting iron man's role to be expanded more.

>>85254599
If an Avengers movie climaxed with Cap and Bucky fighting Iron Man people would riot. Its not an Avengers movie

>>85252424
Genuinely disappointing and massively overrated.
Not necessarily "bad" though.

>>85252611
Seriously, they need to drop a bag of money on Roger Deakins door or something, anything to make Infinity War not be bland as fuck.

>>85254717
Infinity war is gonna have the same cinematographer as Civil War, but they've already said that they were going to have a different look.

>>85252975
>I thought it was completely in character for Tony to side with the Accords.
It was the opposite of in character, because Tony spent 4 movies as a lone wolf, and in that entire time, he never exhibited any inclination toward changing that attitude. It was just abruptly how he felt for this movie because it had to be done. Same for Widow.

Saw it in the cinema and thought it was fine and one of the better MCU films. Fell asleep watching it the second time at home though

>>85252424
I thought it was exceptionally great. Loved Tony's character evolution throughout the movie, and especially the character interactions. Coming into it though, I thought it was going to be a retreaded Winter Soldier but I was glad that I was wrong.

The plot itself made more sense than the comic did. Never once did I think "wow, that's not how these characters usually act", with the exception of maybe Black Widow.

>>85254755
Iron man 3 he already showed signs of wanting off the super hero business with his unmanned suits. Ultron AI/drones was just a natural progression of that.

>>85254599
>they should have done it immediately after the Chitauri invasion
?
The Avenger's operation at the point was contained to NY and outside Iron Man and maybe Hulk no one knew who the hell they were, it's only come Black Widow in TWS where everything leaked and everyone around the world regardless of clearance or authority got a nice long look at the who's who and what they've been up courtesy of SHIELD/HYDRA.

By Age of Ultron it would have been unwise to ask them to step down since they were the only group effectively capable of dealing with HYDRA as it were, however Stark and Banner over tipping their hand and co-creating Ultron + Sokovia being Taken For A Ride is likely where the debrief caused too many problems to sweep under the carpet.

It wasn't even Wanda's antics in Lagos if you pay attention, that was just the latest in dirt to pile on the matter. The Sokovia Accords are called the Sokovia Accords because they had been drafting them since the extremes of the events shift closer in blame to Avengers than any space aliens or whatnot. Of course the details are a lot more complicated than who alive to point the finger at but the Accords aren't about technicality and absolving, they're about accountability and control.
And not the good kind.

>>85254599
Captain America has a very important role in the Avengers, as one of the original members and their leader. If he gets into some global-level trouble with the government, of course that's going to end up pulling in the rest of the Avengers and cause a divide. I think that makes it way more a Captain America movie, seeing how some of the Avengers have such blind faith in him and that he's what holds everyone together. His power is basically his leadership and influence, and his last movie should show the cumulation of what that means. What his place in the modern world is, which he sacrifices by rescuing somebody from his past. That narrative has way more impact when his story has a ripple effect on the Avengers as a whole.

I agree that some parts of it were too focused on Tony in particular, the overall emotional aspect of the movie was way more about him while Steve's relationship and sacrifice for Bucky was downplayed. But all the events in the movie are controlled by Steve's choices and motivations, and the rest of the Avengers are just being pulled along for the ride.

>>85253842
>Timeline of Marvel's Inhumans.gif

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>>85252976
>MCU spidy is best spidy
At least wait till his solo movie.

>>85252611
No because absolutely no one cares about cinematography.

>>85254843
He "retired" at the end of Iron Man 3 just like he "retired" at the end of Age of Ultron. At no point did he ever regret flying solo, even when the rest of the Avengers confronted him and Banner about his actions. He laughed them off. Then he went solo AGAIN to create Vision.

>>85254875
>The Avenger's operation at the point was contained to NY
And? Anyone with a lick of sense wold know immediately that a task force like the Avengers would never be contained in one city. The Chitauri invasion was fully covered by the media. The whole fucking world knew about them by the end of the movie.

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>>85254880
>I think that makes it way more a Captain America movie
Unbelievable.

>>85253372
Because he's a weird, creepy autistic robot who has the hots for one of the members of the team.

>>85252424
That, apparently, Disney's Marvel's idea of "war" is a short single brawl at some German airport and nothing much.

>>85255111
Probably because the time it was an actual war it turned out to be a gigantic clusterfuck.

>>85252424
Pretty great cape flick.

>>85255017
>Anyone with a lick of sense wold know immediately that a task force like the Avengers would never be contained in one city.
You can't draft binding laws for any old shit without reason. We don't live in a global police state.

The Accords again are based off the Sokovia incident because it is the first actual disaster level case that spotlights accountability chieflyon the Avengers' unchecked operation. Ultron, the Hulk and blowing Sokovia to shit are things that would not be excusable under any circumstances given how they came about.

If there was a terrorist invasion anywhere right now and some group of inexplicably enhanced citizens beat the shit out of each and every last extremist the entire world could see it happen live on WorldStar but not one person outside the location it happened would have any real authority over what becomes of them after.
Laws could be made to keep them away, but not control them, their on-goings and where else they go that isn't restricted.
If the group however went on to start actively jumping borders and getting more and more involved in international matters that do not fall under self-defense that is when something will be drawn up to mitigate them and their resources.

>>85255111
It was a civil one.

>>85255111
same shit happened to BvS too. What the fuck is wrong with both Marvel and DC?

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Why did Civil War seem like a more proper Avengers sequel than Age of Ultron?

In AoU, the story basically ignored everything that happened in the movies between Avengers 1 and 2, but in CW the story actually heavily referenced the solo movies.

AoU also felt like a rehash of Avengers 1, while Civil War felt more fresh and different.

How did this happen?

>>85256012
see >>85252991
But yeah, it honestly felt like filler in a sense.

>>85256012
When they were making IM3 RDJ's contract was about to expire, so they didn't know if he was going to be avaiable in the future and wrote the movie in a way that could bring closure to the character if necessary

Whedon didn't know about any of that, so he wrote AoU with a normal Tony in mind. By the time IM3 came out it was too late to start over. About TWS, i guess either him or producers just really wanted to keep Fury as a recurring character, SHIELD or not

By the time CW came the MCU was more organized. Going by Gunn's words (or was it someone else?) everyone works in the same building so it's easy to keep each other in touch and update everyone about what's happening with each franchise

>>85256012
Riding too much on the high of the first Avengers movie perhaps and forgot to keep itself rooted? Then CW learned from its mistakes and such I guess.

>>85256012
I'm of the belief Joss works in a very self contained fashion, I won't say he's as bad as Bendis since he doesn't contradict other things but he largely ignores them.

McFeely, Markus and The Russos however obviously had to write TWS paying attention to all the on-goings in the MCU so they could tie together the threads for HYDRA to have exploited. So to me as a result of their approach and direction they work better at making movies that feel like a building composition instead of just echo and loop.

>>85254212
That person who did the top part of Tashas head should draw her

>>85256229
>I'm of the belief Joss works in a very self contained fashion, I won't say he's as bad as Bendis since he doesn't contradict other things but he largely ignores them.
I am still mad that he basically undones Loki's character development in Thor 1 because he doesn't know how to write him that way. He did good up to Ultron but AoU is when he overstretched. It really was time for him to be replaced, and Marvel made the right call to do so.

>>85256012

Because Joss Whedon was replaced with 4 people (McFeely, Markus, the Russos). So they could all keep each other in check on what ideas were feasible and which were terrible.

If I was the kind of person who gets bothered by radical tonal shifts, I would've probably hated it.
Also if you realize that this movie saved us from terrible third acts of both Black Panther and Spiderman since now they're established and won't need origin movies, it's pretty good.

>>85256346
Also, all the actors were free and not having kids.

And they had to fight a lot less execs after a certain date.

And the Russos let the actors make the character choices (informed by the script), instead of micromanaging everything and wanting everything their way like Whedon. Evans sounds like he respects but hates him, for one.

>>85256404
It helps that the Russos are used to managing 10-12 characters for half hour shows, when Whedon usually capped at 6 or 7.

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>>85254212
「RHINOCEROS BEETLE」

>>85256431
If you need proof someone is good at managing an ensemble cast, directing credits for Arrested Development certainly helps.

>>85252991
I imagine that Avengers 2 announces that it will do a perfect swan dive, stretches a bit, then gives up and just does another cannonball.

>>85256634
No need to complicate it, buddy.

Disappointing. I get that the movie has to focus on Cap, but the original Civil War story had so much potential if it had been done right, and I feel like using it as a subplot/framing device just wastes that potential all over again. That's my main problem, but also

>Spider Man is a bit cringey and his CGI costume is dreck
>Sokovia Accords plot feels totally forced, nobody in their right mind would blame the Avengers for Loki's aliens or that shit with Crossbones

>>85256684
>>Sokovia Accords plot feels totally forced, nobody in their right mind would blame the Avengers for Loki's aliens or that shit with Crossbones
The reason they blamed Avengers was because Crossbones killed himself. The public is stupid like that, wanting to blame the nearest warm body in order to feel better.

>>85256684
>just wastes that potential all over again.
You would've never had a Tony/Steve civil war movie ever again. That was a take it or leave it situation.

Maybe after IW2 they just join with Pixar/DAS and start animating it, where they don't have to worry about contracts or ageing as much.

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>>85252424
FUCK YO OPINION ON THE FILM

QUICK /CO/ POST >YFW GIANT MAN

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>>85256757

I enjoyed it, but it does have a lot of flaws

My main 3 are:

>Widow ends up helping Cap and Bucky in the end

>Hawkeye giving Tony shit

>Tony going against the Accords rendering his entire argument moot

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>>85256757

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>>85256757
I'm usually an /int/fag, so this is the best I got.

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>>85256757

>>85256404
I think Civil War was the last movie made where they still had to contend with the execs

IIRC, the Russos had to convince the higher-ups that they needed Giant-Man in the story

>>85257002
Which is why (I suspect) the CGI was pretty rushed at times.

Maybe they just irreparably spread their budget too thin at first, and couldn't afford extra rendering/animating/filter developing time by the end. They did seem pretty fucking tired (albeit not as much as Whedon).

It's great that they are smart about managing the shoot so that even when things don't go your way, you can still build around them without leaving half a movie on the cutting floor.

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>>85256757

>>85257002
They had to convince them to get RDJ to have Iron-Man vs Cap as I recall, but no doubt the execs were also rather busy trying to work out the deal with Sony for Spidey.

I was sitting in the theater watching the Airport fight sequence and all i could think of "this took a lot of work to make me bored"

not bad though, probably give it a 6/10.

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>>85256757

I fucking hate this piece of shit

Captain America: Civil War was one of the best movies I've ever seen.

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>>85256757

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>>85256757

>>85257002
>IIRC, the Russos had to convince the higher-ups that they needed Giant-Man in the story
Giantman was added when they realised the film needed a battle climax, because none of the heroes were trying to kil each other. They had Antman from the start, they just didn't know about the anti-Stark stance that Pym had until they were told by the Antman director. They originally had Antman on Tony's side early on, before the Antman film finished filming.

>>85257953
Yeah, this is an advantage they have over the competition. Since they have so many movies in the barrel, they have extra long pre-production for each of them, which ends up in tighter scripts, most of the time.

>>85252424

Honestly?

Worst Captain America film.

Second best Avengers film.

Shouldn't have used a really fucking garbage event; which has in turned spawned an even more garbage event.

>>85259192
>Dark Reign
>Garbage
YOU SHUT YOUR WHORE MOUTH.
Unless you mean Secret Invasion.

>>85254212
I am happy to being a part of this.

>>85259237

I'm talking about Civil War II.

I mean Civil War (a garbage event) spawned Captain America Civil War which in turned spawned Civil War II.

>>85259237
Secret Invasion was way worse than Dark Reign, mostly for the fact that it didn't really make sense in the greater scheme of things.
>Annihilation and cosmic shenanigans happen
>Skrulls get rekt
>Suddenly they're powerful enough to take over Earth
>Despite Earth being extremely difficult to conquer/colonize

It was a clear case of one interpretation outright ignoring another, and it just didn't jive. Dark Reign had potential, but I think it kind of floundered. It's really difficult to get something as unwieldy as an event to make sense.

>>85259320
Civil War II is garbage because current Marvel is garbage, not because it's a product of Civil War.

>>85259344
The two are kind of interlinked. Civil War was clunky but had some good moments in it, Civil War II took the original idea and slapped it onto a completely different context.

I have no plans to ever read it.

>>85259325
And of all the fucking planets in the universe, why Earth? They could have just attacked some random planet with some nomad race. Of course, chances of Silver Surfer JUST HAPPENING to be in the neighborhood are almost 100% despite all laws of probability indicating otherwise, but it's a lot less risky then attacking the one planet that repels Galactus every other week.

It was underwhelming for me. Like most Marvel movies in my honest opinion it was JUST good. Nothing more nothing less. Which isn't a bad thing at all. I just expected a lot more after Winter Soldier, but I guess that's my fault for having expectations. This adaptation is better than the source material.

it was awesome

>It's an Avengers movie

No, it's a Captain America movie, about Captain America and his friends. The world didn't get in danger, and the scale of everything never went too far away from personal and emotional.

>>85259325
The Skrulls were already infiltrating Earth prior to Annihilation. Secret Invasion was the work of a group of Skrull religious fundamentalists working outside the Skrull Empire and represented the last gasp of organized Skrull political and military action post-Annihilation.

>>85253595
> Vision won't be allowed to do anything after what happened with Rhodey, due to being perceived as unreliable.

> Wanda probably ends up training somewhere remote (maybe Temple of Ancient One, New Salem) and avoids contact with humans.

>>85253591
Actually, she also said "compromise when you can".

The question is whether Cap should have compromised or stood his ground.

>>85254147
I didn't HATE it, I just found the lack of actual nazi's and the laser guns to be too kidsy.

Best capeshit movie so far this year

>>85260186
lack of nazis I get, but the laser guns and robosuits and supertanks is pure 1940s pulp shit. You don't get more classic Cap than that.

>>85254113
>eing a consultant to Thanos

Why would Thanos want advice from a guy who utterly failed? Why would Thanos play nice with a guy who failed on his behalf and lost him an infinity stone?

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>>85252424

It was fucking awesome. When Giant Man appeared I felt like a little kid again. It was great.

>>85256012

Because Whedon is a hack that couldn't direct traffic.

>>85261641
Best capeshit movie so far _______

It was great. Loved the airport scene, loved how Zemo manipulated everything from the shadows and the final battle. Hawkeye finally felt like Hawkeye, Vision and Wanda scenes were cute, Spider-Man was decent and Falcon/Bucky interactions were comedy gold.

This fucking movie made me actually like Iron Man.

>>85254599
>If the world governments were going to intervene on superhero activity at all, they should have done it immediately after the Chitauri invasion

No they wouldn't. First, the Avengers worked under SHIELD until TWS, so at least on paper, they already had oversight.

Second, during the Chitauri invasion the Avengers were responding to an in-progress alien invasion. Even if they were completely independent, that's not vigilantism at all. It's more like the equivalent to volunteering to help people during a large-scale disaster. The Avengers didn't start doing anything resembling vigilante activity until they started hunting down Hydra.

>>85261792
But it was in a movie universe that at the time was still leaning towards the realistic, rather than sci-fi.

At the time of its release Iron Man was the most advanced thing the world had seen, but Cap 1 showed us gigantic football stadium sized ships, 4 story tanks, and laser firing rifles, all of which magically disappeared without a trace at the end of the war, with the avengers giving a short B.S. answer that it was all just rounded up and stored without the public ever knowing of their existence.

>>85262075

Also keep in mind the Avengers were just a group of good Samaritans who showed up to save the day from aliens in their first outing. If anything was going to sour the world on the idea of letting them do their own thing,is was the fucking Ultron debacle.

>>85254147

nowhere near as bad as Spider-Man 3, TDKR, X-Men 3, etc.

Still room for improvement, yeah.

>>85262142
>gigantic football stadium sized ships,
no? do you mean the red skull's plane? that wasn't much larger than some actual planes of the time period (much smaller than a football stadium either way)
>, 4 story tanks,
you're exaggerating bruh

>all of which magically disappeared without a trace at the end of the war, with the avengers giving a short B.S. answer that it was all just rounded up and stored without the public ever knowing of their existence.

I dunno, like I can sort of see where you're coming from but I don't think it's that serious. First, as for it totally disappearing... it didn't necessarily have to, we just had no reason to see it referenced. How often does WW2 get brought up in everyday life, that a lack of direct reference to it in the other films made it out of place? and they never really said that it was completely hidden from the public. it's just, you know, history at this point.

Iron Man already begins with the premise that sci-fi technology exists. There's the primary Arc reactor already, the Repulsor-tech Jericho missiles, Stark's whole holographic setup, JARVIS, Stane's sonic wand thing, etc. It's clearly a sci-fi world so I don't see why sci-fi tech existing during WW2 breaks consistency.

>>85261941

Remember that Whedon wanted Daredevil in the first Avengers film, and thinks he should be a member of the Avengers.

Proving that Whedon has no fucking clue about the Avengers or Daredevil.

It was pretty awesome. I don't get how anybody could think it was a bad movie. At worst it probably disappointed some people, but it was a kickass movie.

>>85262703
>It was pretty awesome. I don't get how anybody could think it was a bad movie. At worst it probably disappointed some people, but it was a kickass movie.
The most likely complaint is that Civil War is the first Marvel film that truly required that you watched the other relevant movies first. The writers said that this was when they were finally comfortable enough to believe most of their audiences had seen Ironman, Avengers 1 and 2, and both prior Captain America films. And then not bother filling things in for new comers. It is proof that the franchise is finally famous enough.

>>85261812
Everyone around Thanos has stabbed him in thd back or has plotted or may very well be planning to fuck him in the ass.

>>85262541
DD might cut it as a West Coast Avenger.

>>85254147
First half is great, everything about Cap that audiences love systems from that part of the film.

>>85261812
If the rumors are true, we might get our answer in Thor:Ragnarok, where supposedly, Thanos shows up at the every end.

>>85253219
>or killing someone in self-defense.
Yeah I'm pretty sure that he failed on that part the moment buckey hit one of the cops with a battering ram in the chest

>>85252424
great homoerotic story

I had no strong feelings about it either way like most MCU movies. I totally forgot it even came out this year until I saw this thread.

They've really mastered the art of assembly line tentpole blockbusters with no lasting impact. Some of it was cool I guess.

>>85254599
>don't try to argue otherwise

I won't, but who gives a shit. It was a great movie, it's label aside

The Avengers were already compleltely fucked before Bucky even showed up:
> Fallout from Ultron.
> Wanda hated by the public (just like in the comics) to the degree her position is obviously unsustainable (contrary to Tony and Vision's delusions).

Zemo didn't have to do anything; the team was going to fracture anyhow.

Why did cap have to kiss Sharon. Why. I fucking hate romance subplots.

the only capeshit this year which didn't end with heroes assemble to take down the big bad

let's see if Doctor Strange did the same

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>>85256757
well, in a positive way.

>>85265811
Look at it this way, at least it didn't take up half of the movie like Widow/Banner did in AoU.

Seems like all these superhero movies need a romance subplot for some reason. It was pretty badly written, but at least it was short and didn't have a lot of screentime. Banner and Widow and Thor and Jane were way worse because they were such significant parts of their respective movies.

>>85252424
it was a romp and a ball.

>>85252892

Stark is stupid as fuck, that's his character...

Tonally it was all the over the place, Black Panther was reading the script.

A decent empty popcorn flick.

>>85254599

I guess you think Ant-man is an Avengers movie because Falcon and the Avengers tower we're in it

and Thor 3 must be Avengers 5 because Thor AND The Hulk are in it

(Fucking mongoloid)

>>85256872

Widow changing sides was hinted at the entire movie.

Tony going back on his argument is important because the entire third act is about hypocrisy. Act 1 is about Tony and Steve stating their beliefs, Act 2 is about them fighting for what they believe in, and Act 3 is about them going back on their beliefs - Tony betrays the Accords, and Cap betrays his sense of honesty and openness (no secrets, mutual trust, etc.) by not having told Tony about the possibility that his best friend was his parents' murderer.

>>85265811
>subplot
it was like... a sub-line

she basically didn't exist in the movie other than to give the speech

>>85265811
>Why did cap have to kiss Sharon. Why. I fucking hate romance subplots.
She got written out of the movie. As the early promotion posters implied, she was suppose to have a bigger part. The kiss was the only scene she really had left.

>>85269493
Since Wanda wasn't in any promo at first, it makes me think they gave Sharon's role to her. I was surprised by how much screentime she got in the movie, I wasn't expecting it.

>>85269493
>As the early promotion posters implied, she was suppose to have a bigger part.
>>85269585
>Since Wanda wasn't in any promo at first, it makes me think they gave Sharon's role to her.

Sharon was literally a placeholder for Wanda in those things. It was never meant to imply she originally had a bigger role. It was Marvel just playing it safe because of Wanda's legal ties to X-Men. It's why the Marvel allowed Joss to kill Quickslav off.

>>85269641
That might be true. Still, it's safe to assune they did cut out some of her scenes. There was a promo and some set pics of Cap and her having dinner after the funeral that didn't make it into the movie.

There was also some airport concept art that showed both SW and Sharon there, so I'm guessing they decided to cut her out from that battle too. To be pretty fair, she is kind of redundant power wise. She's just a less skilled Widow, so having her in the battle wouldn't have added anything.

>>85252424
Dust never settles in /co/ it just accumulates and blends into the air

>>85265811
>Why did cap have to kiss Sharon.
If you don't much care for her you'll miss her character arc, but basically Aunt Peggy unknowingly got her niece's knickers' wet telling her tales of an All American Man night after night. There he stands living in the same apartment come TWS, except Sharon in following Aunt Peggy before knowing she'd meet Steve ended up under SHIELD not in charge of it. She can't make her own calls and fuck his brains out when she's assigned by Fury to watch Cap. She has to stay put and lie through her teeth or SHIELD will have her shipped to watch dog detail wherever Blonsky is.

Steve doesn't know about any of this. Later he learns she's been spying on him and shot him down because her job doesn't allow her getting too close to her target. He also suspected she may have killed Fury or is a HYDRA plant and generally was just paranoid so he kept her at arm's length with a cold shoulder thereon.

Mortified the hero her Aunt made out to be the American cousin of Jesus now sees her as little more than espionage scum she attempts to serve as an attack dog in SHIELD for him when he makes his play against HYDRA, and then tries to follow him like a lost puppy in CW where her desperation for his approval builds.

Only at the funeral Steve learns she's Peggy's niece and she tries somewhat subtly but bluntly to hint that the Accords are a bad deal.

The second and third time she just directly gives him inside info on the Bucky situation.

He gets the gist of things by the time she's stealing and hauling his and his buddies' gear to the middle of nowhere for him and decides she's earned some star spangled sugar.

With her heavy breathing and his comment about it being late he also put together the poor thing had been rubbing herself raw over him, so I took it as something purely out of pity not romance. Steve breaks his pals out, moves to Wakanda and writes Tony a make-up letter before he drops a line to Sharon.

Loved it

>>85265811
Because people needed to be reminded that despite his dedication to Bucky, Cap was full on no homo.

>>85270711
>With her heavy breathing and his comment about it being late he also put together the poor thing had been rubbing herself raw over him, so I took it as something purely out of pity not romance.
He was also getting blue balls, let's be honest. The Civil War writers personally believe that he had lost his virginity some time during his war bonds tour, and that in modern times he was waiting for Peggy to die to allow himself to find someone else. Keep in mind that Peggy was never his official girlfriend, and you see that he had been holding back way too long as it is.

>>85270742
>he had been holding back way too long as it is.
Fortunately the Super Soldier Serum gives enhanced endurance.

>>85252735
THANK YOU BASED RUSSOS

>>85270845
>Fortunately the Super Soldier Serum gives enhanced endurance.
Did the comics ever talked about possibility of Steve's powers being inheritable? I know it is unlikely and all, but at some point they must have taken sperm samples in their attempt to replicate the formula.

first forty minutes were complete shit, both from an editing and story standpoint. Then when they get to Queens up until the end of the airport scene, it's good all around. After that, the action and editing is still good, but my god does the story become retarded.

I thought it was good, but Tony was stupid for trusting the government in the MCU when do many other organizations got easily taken over by Hydra.

I think it was a good entertainment package, more than a good movie. Spider-Man showing up for no reason, only to plug his upcoming movie, would not be accepted in a "good" movie, but it works here because he's Spider-Man and everyone loves him. It's like a lot of James Bond movies aren't supposed to make sense, they're just supposed to have all the cool stuff we came to see.

The writers and directors did a mostly efficient job of giving the characters stuff to do (except War Machine and Sharon). I was particularly happy that they gave Scarlet Witch and Vision some chances to make an impression because those are characters they inherited from Avengers 2, and they arguably don't fit in a movie like this. (They'll fit better in Infinity War.) But they were there and it feels good to see two of my favorite Marvel B-listers on the screen.

The main thing about the movie is it sent people out feeling good because it had all the things they came to see - heroes fighting heroes, then a one-on-one hero vs. hero fight - and because it knew when to change the tone. So the first part of the movie is mostly serious, then when Spider-Man shows up it becomes mostly comedy, and when he leaves it's serious again. If it hadn't been for that comedy interlude people wouldn't have been in the mood to see a serious fight.

But again, as a "good" movie - especially as a good Captain America movie - I'm not sure it qualifies, but there are a lot of movies that are just fun without being exactly good. And it is superheroes, after all. They don't have to make sense.

>>85252467
It was no citizen Cain but it was great for a capeshit, I was happy with it.

>>85252424
9/10

>>85272008
>complete shit
you don't like the slow buildup of establishing character's motivation and moments? wow

>>85259192
>worst captain America film
Did you miss the first one?

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>>85261882
This
Adult drama and convoluted plots is nice but at the end of the day I want to see Antman throwing trucks at people

It was funky

>>85252424
Haven't seen it. It's just sitting on my harddrive, right next to batman vs. superman directers cut. Don't know when I'll see either.

best marvel movie which isn't saying much

>>85255006
That's an idiotic way of viewing things, film is a visual medium and iconic shots are hallmarks of classics.

>>85252424
Pretty good. Very enjoyable. There's really nothing else to say.

lame villain and fights. buncha street leveler shoulda had thor and hulk. cocktease spiderman oh well have to wait till next year for a good one

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>>85256757

With all the over-the-top scenes in cape movies now, I really didn't expect anything to surprise me in Civil War.

I was wrong.

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>>85256757

>>85270742
>The Civil War writers personally believe that he had lost his virginity some time during his war bonds tour

Steve doesn't seem like the kind of dude to just casually fuck.

>>85277662
I think the young Steve would casually fuck.

When he gets unfrozen he's more timid around women because he's old and he's a guest in another time period where he doesn't understand anything except fighting.

But as a young hero he'd be aware of the Rustler's Rhapsody Rule that a hero has to be a Confident Heterosexual.

>>85252424
Honest opinion?

X-Men Apocalypse
Deadpool
BvS
Civil War

It was fine. But Winter Soldier was way better. The only memorable moments were the cameos.

>>85252991
Well put.

>>85277662
>Steve doesn't seem like the kind of dude to just casually fuck.

Why not?

Bretty meh imo, especially the plot , could have been handled so much better than "muh parents!" and "muh friend!"
Airport fight felt forced.

Spidermans cameos and Black Panthers plot line was good though.

>>85271877
Yes, that's the origin of red skull in the ultimate comics

>>85252424
easily the worst Cap movie of the trilogy

>>85252424
WS>CW>>FA

It wasn't a bad movie by any stretch of the imagination but it gets awfully boring at times.I do like the action scenes and Black Panther was done extremely well.