To be honest I think that the recent gender swap thing that comic

When they make books without genderswaps (like Sif's Journey Into Mystery run) no one buys them. This is the only way they can make money.

Did you think they did genderswaps just for fun or something? Stop being ignorant and do some research.

>>85223673
it's not enough to give them their own heroes, they've had that forever. they have to have the ESTABLISHED heroes with the built-in name-brand-recognition popularity
as usual women aren't content to be equal or even more than equal, they still demand to have what men earned.

>>85223673
i've seen way more women say that video games and comic books are for nerds and children than I have seen men say it.

Gender swapping the characters wont "reach a bigger audience" because the hardcore comic book nerds who are the vast majority of who actually buys comic books hate the gender swapping and see no reason for it because no reason has been given so the chances their consistent audiences will buy it is lowered.

>>85223806
it's such bullshit

>>85223837
oh wow you're a popular guy!

>the vast majority of comic book nerds

you know all of them?! You speak for the vast majority of comic book nerds? You're a lucky man!

>It's "a /pol/ pretends to read comics" episode!

When will people stop this meme and realize comics are literally the same as they've always been.

>>85223837
i've never seen girls bullying anyone for being a "nerd". It's always the boys pushing them into lockers and shit.

>>85223919
i'm not even trying to be sexist. All i'm saying is it's lazy as fuck to just use existing heroes instead of making new interesting female heroes. I think they should focus on making new heroes that's all.

>Marvel doesn't create new characters!
>What is a NuHuman?

>>85223837
honestly if they only made comics for the vast majority then we'd never see anything else. So i'd rather see these things and it doesn't matter if the "majority" doesn't buy it because who cares? As long as enough people do buy it to keep it existing and influencing more young girls to think "oh spider gwen is really cool I wanna be like that" then we get more cool shit.

so shut the fuck up

>>85223837
>So just make everyone a white dude! That's how it's always been!

Bet these "just make new characters" faggots have never heard of Avengers: The Initiative

oh good, this thread again

>>85223673
>Make new female superheroes instead.
This argument is retarded, new heroes fail 90% of the time, most of them are lucky if they become D-list in the long run.

>>85223673
>Or are you saying your existing female superheroes are shit and you don't want to make movies or comics about them?
That's pretty objectively the case.

>>85223673
They should make a female Carol Danvers sometime.

I bet she would be hot.

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>>85223673
>Or are you saying your existing female superheroes are shit and you don't want to make movies or comics about them?
More like no one cares about them unless they have successful blockbuster movie. In fact, no one fucking cares about comics.

>>85223673
Wow, what a controversial opinion.

>all these people agreeing with this gender swapping bullshit
Why

>>85223806
Or maybe they're just mixing things up by trying something different and it isn't part of some grand feminist conspiracy.

>>85224340
SJW

>>85224340
>knowing why something is the way it is means you're agreeing with it
No.

>>85224410
so you agree it's stupid and lazy?

>>85224340
Some of us read comics and know which controversies sell and which don't.

Also, those of us who actually come here regularly instead of occasionally getting lost on the way to /pol/ or Tumblr or Twitter or /v/ or whatever are physically incapable of responding to these threads with anything but dismissal after seeing them hundreds of times a week.

Legacy characters have literally always been a thing but stupid fags like you who dont read comics are only pretending to care because they arent all white males now.

Fuck off.

>>85223673

>Make new superheroes

They do. Hardly any of them are popular and get shoved aside until it's time for them to die in a random event.

>>85224430
>stupid
No, because there's a reason for doing it.
>lazy
Also no, a character could be pushed to the moon and still fail miserably, just look at Sam Alexander.

I don't agree that genderswapping should be the answer, but I do agree that genderswapping IS the answer. No one gives a shit about new heroes so this how things will always be.

>>85223803
>When they make books without genderswaps... no one buys them
No one buys the books with genderswaps either.
The problem isn't what the character has in their pants, but that they suck ass at writing books.

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>>85223673
Why not just focus on making good superheroes that are fun to read about or that have creative adventure instead of trying to push 'diversity' and 'positive representation'.

I would buy the shit out of a Robin/Bunker book.

>>85223919
>"It's lazy to pull these cheap stunts"
>"HURRR MUH /POL/"
Seems about right

>>85224600
The last "new" hero I started reading was deadpool. Every other hero/heroes have been around for decades.

if you guys don't mind me dereailing the thread and I doubt you do name some new guys/girls I should look into. Basically anyone from the year 2000 to today. I fell off new heroes after the 90s.

>>85224648
If the quality of the writing was the issue then Bendis books wouldn't be doing well.

>>85223967
They do that, too. Tons of new characters are created every year. Then when they try to push them to get them more popularity you complain that they're "forced" or made to fill diversity quotas.

You realize they aren't literally turning Tony Stark into a black woman, right?

Why do you think legacy heroes are some new phenomenon? If this were the 70's would you be pissing and moaning about Rhodes taking over for Iron Man? Or John Stewart becoming Green Lantern? What about Quasar? Or Wally West becoming Flash? Is that all "lazy" because they used existing hero names?

Get the fuck over yourself. It's so painfully obvious you don't know shit about comics yet think your opinion is somehow more valid than SJWs who know as little about comics as you do.

>>85224648
As a gay anon, I don't read books with female main characters. Even genderswapped men that have became women. Mostly because I don't really want to ogle them or care what happens to them.

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>>85224699
Comic books are all about cheap stunts though.

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>>85224705
Bunker, a fun character trapped in a serious book.

>>85224863
Is he in Rebirth?

>>85223919
>comics are literally the same as they've always been.
There's no same way that comics have always been.

Up until the late 1930s, comics had no superheroes, and were mostly comic-strip-style funnies (hence the name "comic book"), with some pulp adventure.

Simple superhero stories for children became popular mostly in the late 30s and early 40s.

Mid-40s to early-50s saw the rise of adult (if trashy) crime and horror comics, which were regulated out of existence in the mid-50s, and comic printers returned to childish superhero comics in an effort to survive.

60s was an evolution of superhero comics with more complex characters, social commentary, and dark elements, to appeal to the teen and adult markets bereft of their lurid crime and horror stories, while working around the Comics Code.

This evolution continued fairly straightforwardly until sales plummeted over the 80s due to competition from video games. At this point, comics dropped from the mainstream, and the industry became niche and desperate, flailing wildly for attention and fighting viciously over the small remaining market. Furthermore, the American comic scene began to face serious competition from manga, which stayed healthy through its role as market testing of storyboards for anime and became more accessible thanks to the rise of the internet, and from webcomics. At the same time, desktop publishing made small-run comics from minor publishers increasingly viable, which resulted in a proliferation of works of widely-varying artistic merit.

With comics freed from the child market, peak edgelord was achieved in the 90s.

Hope was revived in the early 2000s when comic-book-based IP became the foundation for fantastically profitable film and game mega-franchises, but "Hey, we're here!" flailing continues.

The 2010s have seen significant incursions from the Tumblr hivemind into the old franchises. It's as real (and bad) as the edgelord crap of the 90s.

>>85224352
You have to be over 18 to post here.

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>>85224059
>As long as enough people do buy it to keep it existing and influencing more young girls to think "oh spider gwen is really cool I wanna be like that" then we get more cool shit.
>Spider-gwen
>cool shit
She's cold diarrhea in a dixie cup.

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>>85225110
Nope, which is a damn shame.

>>85224705
X-Statix
New X-Men
Young Avengers
Avengers Academy
Runaways
Jessica Jones

Just off the top of my head from Marvel. There are tons and tons of great new characters but after the run they're created for is done, no one ever brings them back, in favor of creating their own new characters.

>>85225149
>not being /r9k/ makes you underage
Am I on Bizarro World?

>>85224794
This is exactly why LGBTBBQ has stopped giving a shit about you.

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>>85225283
>Wolverine
>Thor
>Iron Man
>Rocketeer
>all in the past year and a half alone

>>85224352
Nice world you have in your mind, anon.

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>>85225336
Hey, I can't help it if I'd prefer Chrononauts or Grayson over Wonder Woman or Birds of Prey.

>>85225336
It's LGBTQBPR now.

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For real though, are there any female superheroes of note, like at least C-list, that aren't family/legacy characters like Supergirl like Captain Carol, or really bigger as part of a team like any female X-Men member or Black Widow?

Seems like the only female superhero that's ever really stood on her own was Wonder Woman, and even arguably half of that is Trinity coattails.

>>85225609
that's because no one gives a fuck about women. I want male superheroes. They're cool and interesting. I don't care about some dumb bitch.

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>>85225609
That's probably because the main demographic for superhero comics is male.
Though, I do know a couple of girls that are huge fans of Death.

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Black Anon here. I feel the same way about race swaps. It feels like some coorporate stooge has list of minorities he's checking off a list to feel better about himself (and make lots of money) I get why they don't just create new minority heroes, they don't sell. But this pandering these last couple of years has been insulting the new characters don't have heart, they're just done to get 5 seconds of attention from media. Pic related is the last race change I actually liked, probably because it didn't make the front page of some blog. Of course they made him into a gay Felicity in Arrow for no reason.

>>85225711
Nice strawman
dumbass

The only example of genderswap that annoys me is Thor. He's a historical figure. A norse god. The god is a male. You can't change what a god is. Superheroes yes but this isn't a superhero. He's a historical person. Thor was a male. Fact.

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>>85226094
Nigga fucking what?

>>85226179
Thor is a male norse god. Thor is a historical figure, not some comic book superhero.

>>85224059
>never seen girls bully
Consider yourself lucky.
They can be real hardcore.

>>85225609
Stuff like superhero comics and pro wrestling are about simplifying the world to something like early tribal society, where there are only a few people who matter, and they solve their differences with fistfighting and sneaky tricks.

It's fantasy, but it's not completely arbitrary fantasy. The fantastical elements serve to return the characters, socially, to these primitive times that we evolved to expect to live in.

Women on average are only about half as physically strong as men. In pre-modern conditions, they would be occupied most of their life with bearing and caring for children. Women are more inhibited from acting decisively in times of danger and accepting personal hazard. They've never been the stuff of the greatest heroes in reality.

A woman being the best and strongest on her own doesn't resonate with our social instincts. One or two women finding a lower place on a larger team of the best and strongest does ring true (Justice League, Avengers -- a hunting party bringing along a pre-fertile tomboy whose uncommon talents compensate for her lower strength). The best and strongest tribes having equal numbers of men and women also rings true (X-Men, the Inhumans). So does the best and strongest men having ties to and respect for women that are exceptional, and respected as their social equals, but not their equals in ability.

Fantastical elements that make women into solo heroes, or leaders of heroes, are emotionally unsatisfying for most people, because they make the situation more socially different from primitive human life, from our evolutionary background.

>>85226227
Mythical Thor has almost nothing to do with Marvel Thor beyond some very bare elements and poaching some names. Anyone that goes "muh myths" has clearly never read a fucking Thor comic before and is most likely /tv/ scum.

Of all the complaints to have with Aaron's Thor, "not close enough to the myths" is the single most retarded and non-valid one possible.

>>85226418
I just honestly don't give a fuck about a female hero. I want a male one. They're cool. Women are not interesting nor are they cool.

>>85223673
>Make new female superheroes instead.
They did. And then nobody bought the damn book, so they stopped.

I shit you not...I shit you not. Elyse from Funhaus just said this exact same thing. You fucks ain't even trying any more.

>>85226603
then obviously no one gives a fuck about female heroes so stop trying to make it a thing. It will never be a thing. Fuck off. Stop ruining existing heroes.

>>85226617
When have we EVER tried?

>>85226227
That's Earth-X Thor, from a weird 90s don't-call-it-What-If miniseries that turned the world all crazy and rapidly brought it to an apocalyptic ending. The guy who posted it is being a dick.

Odin had turned Thor into a woman to punish and humiliate him and hopefully fix his arrogance, like the original Thor comic premise where Odin had turned him into a mortal man for the same reason. Whether he also used his magic to make her dress like a little slut, or Thor just took a liking to it, is left to the reader's imagination.

This is, of course, not at all the same thing as replacing Thor with a woman, even if it wasn't in a "What If: The World Was All Crazy, Fucked Up, and Doomed?".

>>85226617
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eg6HYuvIJos

2:35

>>85226094
Marvel Thor is a fucking superhero you autist. Nobody gives a fuck about Norse mythology. Plus Thor Odinson is still a male. Jane Foster is Thor the God of Thunder now. Why cant you faggots do your research before you shitpost here?

>>85226771
>>85226617
Oh my bad it wasnt' Elyse it was the comment she was reading that said this post

>>85225246
That is a damn shame.
I still think he should have been placed with the Laterns.

>>85225416
What does that have to do with age?

>I get why they don't just create new minority heroes
But they do all the fucking time, you casual dipshit.

>>85223803
I think it also helps that Marvel forced this Whor development on the View, MTV, social media, and the clickbait websites took care of the rest.

Journey into Mystery had NO such media attention or advertising.

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>>85226478
>Anyone that goes "muh myths" has clearly never read a fucking Thor comic before and is most likely /tv/ scum.

Thanks for outing yourself

>>85224751
>You realize they aren't literally turning Tony Stark into a black woman, right?
Not the guy you replied to, but this actually does make me upset. This Iron Man replacement.

Not because Iron Man is being replaced by a black woman. But because the way Marvel is going about it shows they care more about the controversy than anything else.

They already have fucking Lila Rhodes. She's not even an old character, just 2014. She fits into the same basic archetype as Riri - black, female, intelligent, machinist/programmer - but unlike Bendis's donut steel she's an existing character with close ties to other characters in the Iron Man group. The character development opportunities that come with her uncles death are too good to pass up.

BUT THEY IGNORED HER ANYWAY FOR BENDIS REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Just keep male characters male. I don't give a fuck about the female heroes. They don't even need to be white males. My favorite Green Lantern is John Stewart.

>>85228544
That's Red Norvell, not actually Thor. Thanks for outing yourself.

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>>85223673
>Make new female superheroes instead.

It's about strategy.
If they make a new hero, male or female, there's no way to know in advance if it will work, whereas a female Thor offers some guarantee of selling the first issues before it bombs (or not).

And yet it's just another bottle in the sea, they throw a hundred of them and rip benefits on the few which work, as long as they work. Then announce the "return" of the original like it's an earth-shattering surprise.

Are there notorious examples of the reverse, famous superheroins being replaced by males?

> I loved Galacta, though

>>85224137
R.I.P.

I'm not gonna lie and try to justify myself. I realize i'm an asshole and honestly don't care. I don't care about female superheros. So its not that I want them to make more original female heroes because I don't want them to do that. Fuck female heroes. I care because I want them to leave the male heroes alone. They're ruining them. It's 100% sexist i'm not even denying it but I really don't care about the female heroes. They don't interest me and I hate when they are in a focal point. Stay in the background or don't be involved at all.

Superman > supergirl
Batman > batgirl
Robin > batgirl
Superman > wonder woman
Hulk > she hulk
the other 3 members of fantastic 4 > invisible woman
Male heroes > female heroes

>>85229406
...I like Sue

>>85229437
I don't like her for the sole reason she's a woman. If she was the invisible man i'd be fine with her. I just don't like women heroes.

>>85229504
Wew

>>85229406
If anything I just hate how stereotypically they're written. Only female heroes I like are She-Hulk because 80;s and Barda.

>>85229406
That's literally some of the dilumbest shit I've ever heard in my life.

>>85229620
I realize how stupid it is but I really don't care. This isn't just for comics either btw. I refuse to vote for Hilary in the upcoming election just because she's a woman. I'd rather vote for fucking Trump and that guys insane.

>>85228946
>Galacta
Tell me more of her anon.

>>85229406
>I don't care about female superheros.

See: >>85226418
>Stuff like superhero comics and pro wrestling are about simplifying the world to something like early tribal society, where there are only a few people who matter, and they solve their differences with fistfighting and sneaky tricks.

>It's fantasy, but it's not completely arbitrary fantasy. The fantastical elements serve to return the characters, socially, to these primitive times that we evolved to expect to live in.

>>85230338
I don't understand what you're trying to say

>>85230503
That perhaps your reasons for not liking the idea of female superheroes isn't as simple as even you thought.

I'm not terribly fond of them either because I've met maybe 10 or 20 girls in the 19 years I've been alive that liked stuff like vidya and cartoons. So the idea that a girl gets super powers and wants to be a super hero doesn't click for me. Not to this extent

>>85224352
Then they should try establishing the female heroes made already with good writing. The problem is that these fem heroes weren't popular enough so they give titles to women because they complained. You wanna try some thing new and different try reading the original female heroes first instead of being jealous of their male counterparts.

They are saying that this market does not accept new characters well

And they are right

>>85230878
male heroes are just better plain and simple. They're cooler and more interesting. Also they're men so that automatically makes them better. Women need to shut the fuck up.

>>85230503
1) You're not alone. You're in the majority.
2) You're not being a dick (well, not just by not caring about female superheroes).
3) The reasons are fairly straightforward and easy to understand.

Why female superheroes are less popular than male ones isn't any more mysterious or changeable than why romance novels are full of relatively passive, flawed women being swept off their feet by forceful, morally-ambiguous men rather than self-sufficient women gradually forming mutually-respectful relationships with polite, rule-following men of equal ability, who agree to take equal turns doing the laundry.

>>85230908
then stop making new characters. Don't ruin the existing ones.

but also you're wrong. Guardians of the Galaxy no one knew shit about. Huge film. New heroes and still popular as fuck.

>>85230940
women need to learn their god damn place and role in society. They've been getting too uppity and it's annoying as fuck.

>>85230920
Terrible bait, you didn't even try.

>>85230920
>ale heroes are just better plain and simple. They're cooler and more interesting.

Probably because you can't relate with a female character or you like to self-insert yourself in male roles.

>>85230920
No, the problem is that women liked the movies and wanted more like twilight in the comic books.
Females can be written really well, the problem is if they show weakness at all or draw backs there are people who are over sensitive and refuse to see the struggle is what makes a story interesting.

>>85231002
Probably you like to self-insert yourself in male holes.

>>85230977
the sad thing is i'm actually being completely serious. I know it's stupid but this is my honest to god opinion. I do not like women. The only reason I put up with their stupid bullshit is so I can still have sex. No matter what the beta fags say girls don't want giant assholes who push them around and say terrible shit to them constantly. So I need to pretend like I actually care what they have to say and put up with them. I've never had a relationship last more than a year and honestly that was a little too long for me. I don't plan on getting married or having kids. Leave me the fuck alone. You can't say that to a kid or wife. They're all needy and shit. I don't want that.

>>85231002
Like women havnt been doing that from the very beginning.

>>85230940
>but also you're wrong. Guardians of the Galaxy no one knew shit about. Huge film. New heroes and still popular as fuck.


Keywords there are films. New comicbook characters are a lot more intimidating to get into and usually under sales.

That's why they try to push legacies. They do this while also trying to reach out and get a broader reader base.

>>85231098
then. don't.

Like i've said that so many times throughout this thread and i've been here since OP started it.

>I CAN'T DO THIS
then don't
>BUT.. BUT..
then. fucking. don't

>>85231098
Seeing how a lot of mainstream movies and shows star male protagonist, it seems women support those movies anyway.

>>85231224
What are you even trying to say? This is incoherent.

>>85231063
This is a much deeper issue than comics. Because comics are fiction and are purposed with taking you away from reality. Not trigger you every time you see something with no dick and a pair of breast.

>>85231267
i'm saying don't insert yourself into the character if you're a woman and it's a male hero. Just fuck off and find something else to do.

>>85231238
Because overwhelming ammount of men watch them.
Look women have been self inserting themselves in every popular franchise. When a female lead rears her head, she's hated because she's not the female selfinsert they wanted because she is actually interesting and have flaws. Not every male hero is superman perfect. This is what makes them interesting. When men are having fun women seem to get jealous of that fun and have to ham fist themselves into it, or they just want to have fun with the boys. Which is fine with the latter, but when you just rip a character away because he has a penis and for the sake of diversity you aren't writing for the sake of the comic, you aren't even writing for the sake of art. You are writing for political views that are so shallow that the real meaning behind the attempt is swallowed up by people who have no clue or understanding of the history of the character and the comic.
Not only that you replace the character with a generic character with no qualities, basically saying "hey here is a woman working for us now, who cares who she actually is as long as she fulls the gender quota it's fine."
I hope you understand my verbal diarrhea, but that's what's wrong with this these souls gender race swaps.

>>85231509
yet another reason why I hate women and they piss me the fuck off.

I swear to god once we find a way to reproduce without needing women they'll be sex slaves or some shit.

>>85231656
Don't hate women, it's not all of them, it's really men and women who just want to create problems when there were none. Let me tell you there are female comic book creators who are actually good, who know how to write, but the people who are getting these comic book jobs are people who aren't qualified. This is the problem.

>>85231287
>comics are fiction and are purposed with taking you away from reality.
Yes, but still to a particular destination, not just to someplace random: >>85226418
>Stuff like superhero comics and pro wrestling are about simplifying the world to something like early tribal society, where there are only a few people who matter, and they solve their differences with fistfighting and sneaky tricks.

The line of argument that keeps coming out is, "If you can accept space wizards and people who shoot lasers from their eyes, why can't you accept the women being stronger than the men, or at least equally strong?"

And, you know, I can. Just not in superhero comics. You've got to realize you're telling a very different story if you make women the primary combatants.

Not recognizing the change in tone when you genderswap is incompetent storytelling. A story about a man defending his wife and children from marauders is going to feel very different from one about a woman defending her husband and children from marauders. Just reading that, don't you immediately pity the woman? In the second one, your first impression is that there is something already terribly wrong with the husband and the woman would be still be in a bad situation if the marauders disappeared, that this is a tale about enduring hardship rather than one about tactics and steely-eyed resolution.

I liked Puella Magi Madoka Magica. One of my favorite works of fiction, really. Or the Alien movies.

But these aren't stories about the universe working in such a way that everything comes to hinge on literal, physical fistfights between heroes and villains.

>>85231287
There are already, the problem is that people like you not doing research to find them and then complain that there aren't any, when in fact there are.

At the end of the day, the only thing that matters, is that these books are absolute trash. No redeeming factors in any of them on any level. Not the art, not the story, not the dialogue, none of it is good.
It only gets worse, because they commit the cardinal sin of being boring. The only thing they do that's exceptional is having moments that are so massively out of character for the properties in question, that they launch hardcore fans out of the experience like they're on a fucking trebuchet.

The few good books with female leads also get canned, because no one uses the old style method of putting the new-ish character in a main line book, giving them an interesting little arc to play with, and then having it continue in their own book. They did this with Cassandra Cain and her book sold better than the average DC comic book for years, until they canned her, because they wanted to do something that was based more on the way she looked than the way she actually was. This'd be like 90s (as fuck) Thor being some biker dipshit, who drove around whacking people with a crowbar, because he wasn't smart enough to figure out how to use the hammer. Or like Spider-Man being a children's entertainer.

This is cancer to the industry and Marvel should be fucking ashamed of themselves for diving head first into it.

Plus, we already had a female Thor.

>>85223673
They only ever did it with like...two people. Also Whor is gonna end soon anyway so your whole argument falls flat.

>>85223673
I was fine with the gender change of Thor, because Loki changed into a girl so I thought it was magic mumbo jumbo. When it turned out to be Jane, I was still fine, she had a connection toward thor. My problem was that she kept the Thor name. Like that's a Title. Thor is his damn name, & everyone else that carried that hammer gained new Titles like Thunderstrike, Beta Ray Bill, Storm kept her fuckin' code name. So why use a persons name as a title? It makes no sense. It's also the problem I have with Cho's Hulk. Hulk isn't a Superhero title, it's his Identity. Yes, Hulk is an abomination of science, but Hulk always has used that name as simply that, a name, just like Joe fixit. But I guess we have to make sales. I'm not the only one on this right?

>>85234982
>everyone else that carried that hammer gained new Titles like Thunderstrike
Eric went by Thor for his entire duration using Mjolnir. He didn't start calling himself Thunderstrike until after he'd returned Mjolnir to Thor Odinson and started using Thunderstrike (his mace).

When Beta Ray Bill had Mjolnir, Odin referred to him as Beta Ray Thor and would later refer to his Korbanite form as Beta Ray Bill and his Thor-form as Beta Ray Thor (since he had the same enchantment that allowed Thor to turn into Donald Blake).

File: The Incredible Hulk #077.cbz-Hulk_v2_077_08a.jpg (208KB, 1000x1528px) Image search: [Google]

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>>85234982
Honestly my only problem with ChoHulk is that Banner suddenly doesn't have MPD.

>>85235194
Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me. Must've forgotten that, sorry.

File: Thor_Vol_1_384.jpg (71KB, 400x605px) Image search: [Google]

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>>85235445
DeFalco's run for Masterson and Simonson's run for Beta Ray Bill. Simonson's run at least is required reading and DeFalco's is also pretty good.

Pic related is another example of someone besides Thor Odinson calling themselves Thor because they're using Mjolnir. There's actually more instances of someone calling themself Thor after gaining the power of Thor through Mjolnir than those who don't.

Remember that Thor is in many ways a hero in the vein of Captain Marvel more-so than he is the mythical figure Thor. Despite phasing out Donald Blake, the core aspect of the transformation from mortal to god using the power of a magical conduit (for Captain Marvel it's "SHAZAM!", for Thor its Mjolnir) is one that the franchise comes back to time and again. When you lift mjolnir, you "become" Thor. So while yes, Thor is Thor Odinson's name, it also acts as a title for anyone filling the role of God of Thunder upon lifting Mjolnir.

The problem with "Jane becomes Thor" isn't the fact that she calls herself Thor. It's purely in the fact that Aaron botched the execution and there's nothing about her that makes her appearances in other books feel like anything but a watered down Thor Odinson. When Eric was Thor for example, he had a very distinct personality that caused him to approach situations differently from Thor Odinson. He was the everyman's hero afterall. Just a real down-to-Earth 90s dude.

This shit again?
Jane Foster existed before Thor became unworthy, Thor Odinson still exists, all that happened was that a magic hammer was dropped by one character and picked up by another.

Thor DID NOT transform into a woman. It's a different character flying around as the thunder god. That was a very clear plotpoint.

"Gender-swap" has a definition, handing off a magic weapon and job title does not count as a "gender-swap".

Words used to have fucking meanings. That's kinda an important detail when talking about any kinds of books.

>>85223930

Have you seen many girls dating a nerd? Me neither.

>>85235929
It's still incredibly stupid for Jane Foster (Cancer Victim) to be Thor. It doesn't even make any goddamn sense that a GOD OF HEALING should be suffering from fucking cancer.

>>85236066
>It doesn't even make any goddamn sense that a GOD OF HEALING should be suffering from fucking cancer.
Not to mention the asgardians offered to heal her and she said no

>>85235987
>Have you seen many girls dating a nerd
yes. hell one of them I know married one and has two kids by him

>>85236126
>implying they wouldn't just slap the heal on her anyways
This is Asgard! They aren't going to let one of their greatest defenders keel over because 'muh choice'.

>>85236066
she's only dying of cancer when she puts down the hammer.

>>85236183
>one of their greatest defenders
she's considered an imposter and a wanted criminal by most of Asgard. some suspect but none now for sure that the new Thor is Jane

>>85236240
And? That would not stop Asgardians. They don't give a shit, because if her mortal form dies, the power of Thor goes into stasis until Thor decides to live again.

>>85235929

Of course it does, especially when that gender swap is a shallower character than the first one. Problem never was superheroes suddenly get a vagina or a new skin pigment. Problem always was it was done as lazily as possible, purely for political bullshit existing outside of the comic itself. The stories with the gender swapped characters are still fucking horrible.

Not to mention the creators not knowing the fucking lore they're writing about, so instead of using old already established female characters to properly take the mantle, they create new ones instead. For example X-23 was unnecessary, Lady Deathstrike could've easily become the fem-Wolverine with a simple plot that she turns into an ex-villain hero. Or Valkyrie could've been the new Fem-Thor but god no we have to create a new character entirely to throw those sweet feminist lines to score cheap points off of Tumblr.

Nobody would protest to male heroes suddenly getting Rule 63'd. Problem always was it was done in an extremely bad way.

>>85236310
That's retarded and contradictory to the way they've been shown in the past. The crows should damn well know.

>>85236066
>Duuuuurrrr, anyone in comics who doesn't use magic to cure their cancer is evil and we should hate them!

Mind explaining why Asguardians aren't deserving of death-by-cancer when they refuse chemotherapy in favor of magic bargans with who-knows what?
Or why this huge cheat, this cheap shortcut, seems NOT too good to be true?
There's a saying about not dealing with the devil you don't know. Did you stop to think about that one?

Or is this not about your demands for specific medical treatments, and just a way to villify a female for something, anything?

>>85236362
As should Heimdall.

>>85236351
Do you have any fucking clue how shallow the original Thor is?
Did you ever read his book?
That's a pretty low bar.

>>85223673
I agree that changing/swapping such a long-running character with a female one is odd. But there's been a number of legacy characters (Green Lantern, Marvel's Captain Marvel, etc) who have women in the ranks. As for Jane Thor, it's not like it's wrong. She's "on the list" as it were, as Jane was in the comics from the beginning. It's about as offputting (as in a low degree) as having Susan Storm and Reed swap powers, or having Lois Lane have a stint as Supergirl. It's not outside the scope of the title, it's not permanent, and as long as it's entertaining there's nothing wrong with putting a rookie in "Safeties On 50%" danger. She's going to take a new angle to old methods, break things the old Thor know he shouldn't, and generally cause merry havok- and isn't that what we're all here to enjoy?

>>85236351
>Not to mention the creators not knowing the fucking lore they're writing about, so instead of using old already established female characters to properly take the mantle, they create new ones instead. For example X-23 was unnecessary, Lady Deathstrike could've easily become the fem-Wolverine with a simple plot that she turns into an ex-villain hero.
Are you retarded? X-23 hasn't been "new" since 2004.

>>85223803
>Sif's JiM sold better than Captain Marvel with Carol
>got cancelled
Still fucking mad.

>>85236842
>or having Lois Lane have a stint as Supergirl
This is probably the most accurate descriptor of Fem-Thor. It's baffling how idiots that are positing she's a gender-swapped Thor literally do not get this.

It's just for fun
Fuck man, can't you guys relax.

>>85236665
Are you retarded or something? Asgardians have been doing shit like this since Thor first started. She's KNOWN to have been Thor's girlfriend in the past, she left her husband and child (which I don't know how she lost custody, instead of splitting it 50/50, even though this is the United States we're talking about, but whatever) and I didn't say it was evil, I said it was retarded, because it is. There's easily half a dozen or more people who would know what's going on, at least a few of whom would say something to the rest of Asgard.
To exacerbate issues, it's not really a magic bargain with who-knows-what, it's literally going to a part of the CONUS to seek medical treatment, from the magic space gods.
You say that like CANCER isn't an incredibly cheap drama generator.
Asgard has been protecting Earth since for-fucking-ever, this isn't an unknown quantity. For fuck's sake, we named several of our days on our calendar after these guys, and for good fucking reason.

Or did you not think about any of the fucking history involved in all of this? Asgard did not just pop into existence yesterday, it's been here for literally thousands of years, and for most of that time, they've been fighting the weird bullshit that is in their area, keeping it from coming here.

>>85236959
It's not fun. It's really kinda shit all told. We want our goddamn fun back.

>>85223673
It's more than lazy, it undermines the point. It's not saying 'hey look guys a girl can do everything a boy can' its saying 'girls will never succeed on their own they have to mooch off a boys success'
besides is it to much to ask for a buff amazonian who isn't just a retread of an older character

>>85229406
Don't worry, you're not alone. I don't think a female character in anything ever made me care about them, not just in capes.
>inb4 butthurt weebs
Fuck off.

First of all, I'm pretty sure that no matter what the OP intended, these "hate it" threads are nothing but trollthreads.

That said, the only replacement that actually pisses me off is Wolverine.
Not because I don't see the logic in a clone-daughter taking up the family legacy, or that I don't think she looks better in the yellow costume than he ever did, or that it's not the next logical progression in her character development, or that it's been written half-assed up until now... and it has been...
It's the animal theme.
Wolverine: small, hairy, mean, vicious animal.
With Logan, the short, hairy, mean, vicious killer, that made sense.
It doesn't with Laura, the average female sized, not hairy, hyper-logical assassin, it doesn't make sense.
Just sayan.

>>85237119
Yeah I'm all for the whole movement but they literally could not have cocked it up more

>>85236999
Hey moron, don't bite the bait. You're going to ruin the thread arguing for his keks.

>>85237372
Well clearly she needs to be hairier, then.

>>85237372
It's also contradictory to Laura's story arcs, which to date have primarily consisted of her trying to differentiate herself from him.

>>85237372
I'm just pissed because Laura is doing well enough as a character of her own and shoving her into the Wolverine mantle kinda ruins the point of that. I mean for crying out loud, "X-23" was already a pretty clever moniker/superhero name so literally turning her into "Wolverine" is just pants-on-head retarded..

>>85235987
But anon. You're on a computer and browsing 4chan.

How would you know what girls do when you are clearly a nerd?

>>85236999
>Durrrr, I must be smurt because I'm the one asking if someone's returded!

You going to keep listing all the ways you hate the comic character?
Are you so stupid that you can't tell how people can see right through you?
You're just bashing the comic. That's all, you aren't contributing to the thread, you aren't even responding to the posts you link to.
You are a really weak troll, intelectually.
Example:
>Duurrrrr, they just did that one plot element to generate dramatic stuff!
... as opposed to all those great comics you read that have absolutely no attempts at creating drama?
Wow, you're dumb. Wow. Just wow. ... Wow.

>>85237741
Maybe if you said 'wow' one more time you could make something of an argument.

>>85237486
>>85237502
I really hope they change the name for her when Logan comes back to life.
It would be reasonable too because there's no more dead guy to pay tribute to with the name.

>>85236776

And fem-Thor is even more shallow. Thats how fucking bad it has gotten.

>>85225561
>no M
Stop denying mayogenders you cishit!

>>85237816
No, I think we pretty much nailed it on the first try.

>>85237958
Yeah, because obviously THAT'S the criteria for what made a good Thor story?

>>85223673
every story would be better if all the characters were hot chicks.

and if you'd rather look at ripped dudes... maybe you're gay

>>85223673
the mjolnir boner hammer says "whoever is worthy gets the power of thor.... so she has the power of thor and when thor has the power of thor, he has the power of himself, his own power, and the power of thor. so thor is as strong as 2 thors.

>>85225254
All them legacy characters

>>85223673
They're just trying to reach an audience that won't buy comics anyway, by frustrating readers who do.

So, just the same crap over and over, the writers ARE too lazy to come up with a good way to create interest in their book.

>>85237458
no she doesn't that's fucking disgusting. Female heroes need to be sexy. They're women. That's how it is. They are eye candy.

>>85239567
Which does explain how he was able to beat up those Thors conjured inside the Celestial.

>>85239601
It's constant events with Marvel. Their comic book sales are low and constant cross overs is what's in now, but then gender swapping and shollow version of feminism is being pushed. No one would have a problem if it was new characters with their own set of powers, but since marvel profits off of controversy more than they do by their writing alone they feed the beast this way.
In the end marvel needs to stop being controversial on everything. For once they need to get off their fucking soap box and just write super hero stories.

>>85235864
Fucking this.

The actual concept of a female thor could have been very engaging to read, but the way it's been done has been so HAM-FISTED that it's considered Haram by Islam to touch due to pig content.

It's the squandering of potential that's most frustrating. It's fumbled the idea at every point, from becoming Thor to acting as Thor to the people around Thor.