why is this dude such a faggot? in comics for like 40 years

B-but the New Warriors!!!!

>>85202016
Speedball and Night Thrasher were good
Dick had like no personality in it

>>85202040
I was joking, New Warriors was shit.

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>>85201875
you sure did bring the mad, good job 5/5

>>85201875
>calling out Stark in a what if?

You know that actually happened, right? He came back to Earth in 616.

>>85202154
>You know that actually happened, right?
for real it really happened it real life for real
really

>>85201875
No one ever posts his awesome or amusing pages

>>85202256
they would need to exist

The whole point was they took this kinda lame teen hero and had him grow into a galactic badass.

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>>85202051

>>85202302
one good story in four decades
wowwwww

>>85202364

lots of good stories.
Turns out that sort of judgement is subjective.

>>85202219
>gets called out on misinformation
>turns into a blubbering idiot

You sure showed him, OP.

>>85202639
one good story in four decades
prove me wrong?

>>85202364
Why does the length of time they've been around matter?

>>85202458
Come on man. Nobody really likes any of his solos besides v4. Well, not nobody, but they're pretty band.

>>85202458
Unless it's Carol. Fuck her.

>>85201875
Truth desu.
>Is it just because his name is Dick that his fans are the biggest fags?
It's because a minority took over. Now we're all obligated to like him retroactively.

>>85203046
I sometime forget the new Nova is half hispanic cause it absolutely never comes up.
I think they just wanted to make a hot slightly brown mom.

I mean, I enjoyed the Annihilation saga and all but it's kinda true. People wank him because of Annihilation and MvC3 but he's barely a Cosmic hero in the grand scheme of things. Silver Surfer, Mar and Genis, Quasar, Warlock and Infinity Watch, are all far more important. Hell, even Star-Lord edges him out for leading the Guardians and actually being a space hero from conception even if he wasn't canon for a long time.

Looking forward to his return though. I hope they do something cool with him.

>>85203328
did he even go to space in his first thirty years besides that one arc with the Fantastic Four?

>>85201875
I don't really know much about the character. What's some recommended reading for him?

>>85203378
It's been awhile but I don't think so. Maybe briefly in an issue or two of Nova v3? I honestly can't remember.

This is top b8 I'm really impressed

Would be nice if Marvel would just let the damn Nova Corps stick around for a while without killing them all each and every event.

>>85204013
if he's wrong then try presenting an actual argument

I will add

>the destruction of xandar
>the formation of the annihilators
>the end of thanos imperative

to op's list however

>>85203635
Thanos Imperative basically only
OP is right

>>85203911
Scratch that, it was v2 I was thinking of.

>>85203046
>I didn't read comics until 2013

>>85204261
>I didn't read comics until 2006

>>85204191
Alright. Thanks.

>>85201875
>t.buttblasted Samfag

>>85204302
What I'm saying is this board loved Nova because of Annihilation, they didn't just suddenly jump on a bandwagon when Sam was created.

I'm sure a lot of people like you from /v/ and /tv/ did, or jumped on because Marvel vs Capcom.

But there was a huge, vocal fanbase for the post-Annihilation comics here. Whether they liked Nova before that is completely irrelevant. In fact, whether ANYONE liked Nova before that is irrelevant. The entire GotG concept was basically taking these old sci-fi characters that nobody gave a shit about and updating them. You think anyone gave a shit about Star Lord? No. But now he's a fan favorite, because he was well written in something people liked. I know, strange, isn't it?

>>85203635
Don't listen to that cunt.

Read New Warriors, then Annihilation, then the Nova ongoing.

It's true he didn't have much worth reading before Annihilation, but it doesn't matter.

>>85204418
They should both exist, in like a corps or something

>>85204610
I've been here since Conquest you dolt. And I've been calling him for what he is since then too, a boring character. It's even in his job description for crying out loud.

And just because you weren't born when all those scary old comics came out doesn't mean nobody was reading them.

>>85204104
OP you could at least try to switch up your writing style if you're trying to pretend to be someone else

New Warriors is only fantastic because Speedball is the best 90s character

>>85204808
A Nova corps? That's the most ridiculous idea I've ever heard, don't quit your day job.

>>85202767
No you're wrong because you claimed something wrong, then acted like an idiot to double down. It wasnt a What if. Stop being retarded.

>>85204902
Who am I pretending to be? I'm not Loeb, Alonso or Quesada
I swear

>>85203134
It comes up like twice, when she yells at Sam in Spanish (and Sam doesn't understand her because he's a gringo first and foremost) then when they have that dia de los muertos altar for the fallen Novas.

>>85204857
Wait was /co/ around during conquest? The years are running together

>>85204958
That'd be too crazy

>>85205031
2006

>>85205031
Yea. Hell, there was a time when Thanos Imperative got stickies.

>>85205031
/co/ was like one year old when Conquest came out and it was an extremely slow board.

IIRC Conquest was storytimed when it came out.

>>85205091
Yeah, I remember now, Jeez it's been a long time. I've had kids since this board was created. Life man.
(Side note, I've always been exclusively marvel, so buying mostly DC rebirth now would have shocked past me)

>>85201875
Don't give a shit OP, Rich is back, stay mad fag.

>>85203635
V1, 2, 4 and Annihilation

>>85205192
No he isn't don't tease.

>>85202154
It's clear he didn’t even read the comics, stop feeding the shitty troll.

>>85205192
I just want Dickfags to admit having them both around makes sense and Nova wasn't very good in the first place so why not have two of them in they have a good creative team or good stories
fuck if they potentially have good stories they should both be around
killing one off for another is stupid
I like Dick but Sam think Sam has a few pretty fun stories already
people who think his stories suck then ok, sometimes it takes time just like their precious Richard with they pretend to like

>>85204808
Fuck the corps, Nova duo is good.

>>85204808
Nah, when there's only one then Rich can go all out and be OP as fuck.

>>85205316
Nova V1 was pretty decent though.
But I wouldn't mind having both around and have a mentor-student type relationship. Build the corps back up.
Just distinguish them by calling Rich Nova Prime.

>>85205316
Never going to happen.

>>85205316
There are Dickfags that like Sam and the ones who don't will still be there and will eitheir change their minds when the new Rich/Sam Nova title comes out or cry about it.

But guess what? There are also Samfags that are crying about Rich coming back even after it was confirmed that Sam was going to stay in the Nova title.

Besides the people who lobe both characters will get to enjoy the new series and the haters will stay butt mad and it's up to you to decide were you want to be.

But getting mad about others being mad is the stupidest thing.

Do you people realize this is a bait thread, right?

>>85205687
>every opinion I disagree with is bait

You guys are insufferable.

>>85205316
In the end it was just a butt blasted Samfag.

>>85205706
Sure thing, bro.

Nice bait btw.

>>85205316
>>85205613
>Hardcore Dickfags
>Richard Rider is superior, fuck NINO, Richard was a galactic hero, #bringbackrichardrider

>Hardcore Samfag
>Rider stans are racist! Richard is whitebread boring, Sam is Latino and people identify with him in ways they can't with Richard, he is also brown but colorists make him white.

I love both characters but the stans are the worst.

>>85205737
I'm not OP, faggot.

>>85201875
>calling out Stark in a what if?
Wasn't in a What If....

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>>85204808

>>85205978
He calls out the Avengers in the Annihilation What-If but he calls out Stark twice in his own comic.

Both times because they were too busy with the Civil War to even pay attention to the warning signs he sent about the Annihilation wave coming

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>>85206002

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>>85206110

>Dick Riders

lmao

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>>85206140

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>>85206161

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>>85206180

These fanarts are making me ship them. Besides >>85206180, it's just cute.

>>85206110
Sam's miring hard.

>>85201875
>Dick

I wish people here wouldn't do that. I know "hurrhurr dick rider" and all, but it's like calling Dick Grayson "Rick" or Johnny Blaze "Jack" or Bobby Drake "Rob."

>>85205000
That doesn't make sense. You only lose your tongue when you don't hear it every day. When it's no longer used.

>>85206552
I only say it because it's shorter, funnier, and now because it upsets you.

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>>85206280
Wait till Nova #1 comes out there's going to be people shipping it, heck there were people shipping Sam with Kaine from New Warriors alone.

>>85206353
Don't blame him, it's canon that Rich has a nice ass.

>>85206110
>>85206140
Goddammit /co/. I don't ship.

>>85201875
Stay mad, Jeph.
Nobody liked Sam in the entire 4 years Marvel gave him
Be glad they let him get this instead of doing the right thing and canning his ass in a year.

>>85206552
It's funny and at least in this board it's usually said endearingly or as a joke.

Taking it seriously or thinking Rich really has ever gone by Dick it's stupid though since the Dick nickname wasn't used for Richards anymore when Rich was created.

>>85206647
>shorter

He's called Rich.

And it's not like I'm tearing my hair out over it. Do what you want to do, man. It's just not correct is all.

>>85205316
Because we all know Sam won't be around much longer when Richard is back.
Why bother being delusional like that? Plus, Sam is poisonous for sales. Even ANAD Avengers does pretty badly for an Avengers book.
I want Sam as far away as possible from Richard. Rich will do much better without him.

>>85202767
>one good story

don't you mean 4 good events, 1 great miniseries an a pretty good ongoin before dying?

>>85206871
>4 good events
Which ones?

>>85206889
Annihilation saga, Annihilation Conquest, War of Kings and Thanos Imperative

>>85206889
I think he's referring to Annihilation, Conquest, WoK and RoK.
I didn't care much for WoK and thought RoK was just bad, but they're a lot better than the events Sam was in. I can think of 6 off the top of my head.

>>85206656
>>85206280
Rich is a bit of a slut tho and Sam is too pure.

>>85205158
God I miss 2007-2011 /co/. How things have changed.

>>85205613
>There are also Samfags that are crying about Rich coming back
I have yet to see any that aren't obvious falseflags from one of the handful of extremely overzealous richfags.

Most of Sam's fans are also fans of Rich or have just never read his books. On the other hand, there's some Richfags that are just fucking crazy with hatred over the mere existence of Sam.

>>85206960
The worst we had back then were the fetish threads and that wasn't so bad.

I still remember Thanos Imperative being storytimed for the first time as the issues came out, good times.

>>85206937
oh right Realm and war of kings are separated, my memory fused them together, and i understand your opinion about them, Vulcan was specially a pretty boring and disappointing villain after Annihilus and Ultron did so well in the previous events.

>>85207019
Four long years will build up like that.
I don't get why Marvel said they couldn't coexist for so long and now that they're finally accepting that Richard is the preferred Nova, they think "now they can work together".
Fuck that. Kick Sam to the curb.

>>85207046
I thought we were supposed to be rooting for Vulcan for most of it.
As boring as he was, the Inhumans were way worse.

>>85207134
really? i remember enjoying Maximus a lot in that story and Crystal actually trying to salvage her marriage with Ronan who was legit trying his best to a good husband was pretty endearing.

>>85206930
I can't think of Rich doing anything noteworthy in Conquest or War of Kings. It's been a while since I read them all, but it feels a bit overhyped.
And for as cool as the finale is with Thanos Imperative, Rich doesn't do a whole lot during it does he? Just fights some cancerfodder, steals the Nova Force from everyone and punches Thanos with Pete. Don't get me wrong, the ending is awesome, I just wish they did more with it.
>>85206937
>but they're a lot better than the events Sam was in
Why are you making it a contest?
And yeah, Events have been shit for years. Shouldn't be surprising that Rich was being written in a time when there better writers.

>>85207200
Maximus and Crystal are the only two members of the Royal Family who're worth a damn.

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>>85207019
Go to tumblr and cbr then they are there and they aren't falseflags.

Heck there are even people in tumblr complaining about both Rich and Sam stans going at each other.

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Did you guys check the new Champions variant cover? (I think it's for the second issue).

>>85207391
>Go to tumblr and cbr
Eugh.
What are stans?

>>85207019
Sam fans came out full force with the Rich hate when it was announced that he was coming back

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>>85206627
I know Chicanos who don't speak Spanish and they have Spanish speaking parents.

They know words but they can't sustain a conversation.

>>85207477
Rich coming back also revitalized his fans.
I had completely given up on ever seeing him alive again.
I think everyone can agree that Sam's near the end of his rope, though. Like or hate him, this is he end for him.

>>85207446
Between this cover and the Civil War II cover with Sam, Miles, and Kamala they are projecting the fact that Rich is going to be Sam's mentor.

>>85207683
Sucks too since Robbie would have been a better choice for that role.

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>>85207683

>>85207715
That was just Marvel hoping someone looking like Richard would bring in his fans.
I have no clue who asked for his fucking dad to be in this.

>>85207446
>posting "I think"
>while stating a fact
#2 variant by Mike Choi.

#2's regular cover has Sam Loeb punching Tykeclops.

>>85207759
???
The entire point of most of his solo was looking for his missing dad.
Are you delusional or something?

>>85207995
Nobody cares about some alcoholic janitor. I don't know why they thought anyone would give a shit about him bring a Nova.
Plus, Sam's fans are the delusional ones.

>>85207705
As a mentor for Sam or a mentee for Rich? If it's the latter then I disagree because one thing the Nova books made clear is that Robbie was a natural with the Nova force and that he mastered it faster than Rich (there was even an alt universe Robbie who became a very powerful Nova).

Only thing Rich had over him was experience but Robbie learned fast and in no time.

Robbie is a genius and doesn’t really need to depend on Rich for anything but Sam is the one who needs a mentor really badly.

I can see Robbie teaching Sam although he would get frustrated with him really easily.

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>>85202639
>talking about cartoons on the inter net
good job to you

>>85208039
You're the absolute worst type of capeshit fags. You don't care about storytelling, you're just a characterfag who needs to stroke himself to his favorite character's appearances.

>>85207953
I said "I think" because I wasn't 100% sure.

>>85207995
That stupid storyline should have ended with Duggan's run.

Also the whole fake Jesse using the real Jesse's old Centurion Nova helmet that came oit of nowhere was pure BS for various reasons (like where the fuck was he getting the Nova force for it?) not to mention Duggan hinted before he ended his run that Jesse was going to try and take his Black Nova helmet back from Sam because even though he cared for his family the guy could be a dick and most of all he loved being a Nova.

>>85207715
I was talking about Rich, why you showing me fakeJesse and Sam?

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>>85208280

>>85208062
I read Sam's stories and never liked any of them. Most people share that opinion since he's had astoundingly bad reception.
He's irrirredeemably awful won't be around much longer.

>>85201875
>Is it just because his name is Dick that his fans are the biggest fags?

KEK

>>85208366
I wonder if after all the shit he went through, would Rich even want to take Sam? I am sure he would probably want to prevent him getting hurt because space can be fucking brutal.

Also he never struck me as a mentor type especially the way he handled the probationary Nova newbs, he even left their training to that one other Nova vet.

That said Rich has a lot of big bro instincts and he probably would feel the need to look out for him.

>>85206110
Now change Rich to the Captain

>>85208674
he probably has mad PTSD and trauma and shit from going through everything that he did and being dead and all
Sam could help him reconnect to humanity

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>>85208751

>>85208853
I feel like his brother or Namorita would be much better suited for that

>>85208751
I like The Captain but he is too much of a cynic for Sam and he made him feel worse

I also feel that at some point he would fuck over Sam too.

>>85208910
His brother is MIA and the writers can't make up their minds with where Rita is or of she's still alive.

>>85208910
or a innocent kid that is kinda a screw-up and that he have to help
his brother would be helping him and Namorita is a side character and he should be banging her, make her ride Dick Rider's dick

>>85208853
I would like to see that, Sam is a gentle soul and has that kicked puppy you want to protect thing going on.

Can't wait for November, I hope Bendis isn't writing it.

>>85209021
I hope Gillen, Slott or Wells on it

>>85207683
I'm genuinely ashamed I could never make out who was in the shadows until you just pointed it out.

>>85208439
but why kill him off if by Dick's past precedence, it takes a while for a character to develop and longer for him t get some really great stories
learn from mistakes

>>85208439
I dunno, there was that SamNova storytime a while back where pretty much every response was "what the fuck, why does /co/ always say Sam sucks, this is good".
You're entitled to your opinion, but there's definitely a big contingent who hate Sam purely on the basis of Ultimate Spidey/"muh Dickrider"/"le dead son".

Does anyone have that Modern Cosmic Marvel reading order image? I'm in the mood to try it out.

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>>85211513

>>85208439
>he's had astoundingly bad reception.
How would you quantify a good reception? Or even a decent reception?
Because bad receptions usually don't go for four years without being canned.

>>85210623
He isn't working out and all he does is drive sales into the ground for whatever book he's on.
Why would they keep him around? Yes, it took Rich a while to find his niche, but he didn't murder potential sales like Sam does.

>>85214181
I guess Carol Danvers was good all along.
He was selling in the low 20k's for most of Vol 5 before plummeting below that.

>>85213953
Thanks, man.
>>85214236
Really, I see two potential ways this works out: either Rich coming back revitalises Sam's sales and they both stick around, or the book crashes and burns anyway and Nova gets shoved back in the filing cabinet until they try to revive it in 5 years.

>>85214411
I see Rich stabilizing at 24-25k and Sam bouncing around on different team books that keep getting cancelled until eventually Marvel decides to kill him off.
None of the books Sam goes on do well. At some point you have to think that maybe there's a a correlation between him and bad sales.

>in a what-if
It wasn't a what if, was it?

>>85207391

what the fuck are stans

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>>85214282
>Carol
Sold much worse despite being a character with a more popular name, and was kept alive solely by the editor's need to keep a female non-X-men book alive. Plus all that carol corps nonsense was "generally" good press for them. That's why that book wasn't canned like it should have, it's not the same situation at all.
>He was selling in the low 20k's for most of Vol 5 before plummeting below that.
Aha! The narrative has finally changed! There's absolutely nothing wrong with selling in the 20 thousands, most Marvel/DC books settle there.
>>85214411
It's the perfect spot for Richfags to be in because if the book does well, obviously it's because of him, and if the book fails obviously it's because of Sam. Fuck I hate these guys.
>>85214529
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa whoa.
>I see Rich stabilizing at 24-25k
You mean exactly where Sam stabilized for eleven issues of Volume 5? You can't have it both ways, sales in the 20ks can't be a failure for Sam and a success for Rich.
Also, Sam was put on books that were going to be bad, he doesn't make them worse. Or did you really think New Warriors was going to be a 40k/month seller?

>>85214814
Sam was selling in the low 20k's for .let of Vol 5 despite all the shit Marvel gave him to make him popular. That's why it's a failure for him. Vol 6 just did fucking horrible
Also 4/4 books he's been on in the last 4 years have done terribly. You really haven't noticed a trend yet?

>>85215299
>Vol 6 just did fucking horrible
Speaking as someone who loved Vol 5 from start to finish, that's probably just because Vol 6 is a big pile of shit.
As for New Warriors/ANAD/whatever the fuck else he was on... well, I'd be kind of surprised if Sam's present alone was what pushed them into shit sales. Unless Sam haters are just petulant children who let the presence of one character stop them buying a book they otherwise would've?

Nova fanboy here this is bait.
Stop taking the bait.

>>85215411
It's childish to not buy a team book because you don't like a character on it? Even when the character you don't like is the one that gets the most focus?

What kind of logic is that?

>>85215299
>despite all the shit Marvel gave him to make him popular
Nobody watched that Spiderman cartoon, and Sam's a shit character in that so nobody would want to read him from that. His vidya appearances aren't anything special because the core games suck. The toys? Sales are shit pretty much across the board.
So what did they give him?
An introduction in one of the worst Marvel Events of all time? Multiple guest appearances in books that they don't advertise? V6 is just written like shit, and has little to do with Sam as a character. Any book would have bad numbers with an opening arc like that.

>>85206180
>don't talk to me or my son ever again

>>85215477
>Even when the character you don't like is the one that gets the most focus?
Sam was barely even in the New Warriors book.

>>85215477
When it's a book you probably would've read otherwise? Yeah, kinda. You do you, but I don't really get it.
I mean, I'm not reading ANAD Avengers, but that's because of a lot more reasons than "it has this guy I hate".

>>85206552
Both grayson and Rider are called Dick in the comics though. It's their fucking name. Why shouldn't we call them that. And beefcakes should be called what they are sexy

>>85215299
Correlation is not causation.

>>85215564
Nova is generally called "Rich" by his friends, not "Dick."

>>85215554
Meant ANAD Avengers with the "most focus" part.

>>85215562
>Yeah, kinda
How so? You're not making any sense, what is childish about avoiding something you dislike? It'd be childish to buy something you know has something you dislike then complain about it anyway. But how is avoiding it in any way childish?

>>85215529
He had 5 seasons on a cartoon, even though nobody likes that.
He made it into video games pretty quickly.
He also had toys pretty early.
No other new character from Marvel got this kind of attention.

>>85215731
Yeah, and because of that shit he was able to keep an ongoing up for four years. Look at all the other characters that didn't get that and got cancelled.

>>85206953
the best ships are slut/pure

>>85201875
back the fuck off!?!?

>>85205742
>NINO

I really can't stand this shit. I've read most of Sam's runs, I don't particularly care for him. He doesn't seem to innovate in any important ways, it's basically the same thing Rich was doing in v1 with a little more Cosmic. Not my thing, whatever.

But the NINO thing doesn't even make sense. He's not Nova in name only because Nova isn't a title held by one guy that Sam illegitimately claimed. It's a job and Rich isn't even the only guy to hold the position. All it takes to be Nova is a helmet which Sam has. And again Sam is basically doing the same shit Rich was doing in his early days.

It appears to simply be an excuse for a shitty thinly-veiled racist pun by some butthurt NOT MUHS who only read Annihilation.

>>85215564
>called Dick in the comics

No one calls him Dick in the comics.

>>85206953
>too pure
>being shipped with Kamala and Viv even though he has a girlfriend

>>85215912
We aren't even sure Carrie survived the Secret Wars.

>>85208061
¿

>>85215938
What civilians didn't though?

>>85215813
You really don't think Marvel had higher hopes for him than any of their new characters? Even with all that shit they have him from the start?

>>85215872
I hate Sam for a number of reasons, but I never cared about his race. I don't think anybody really did. The "in name only" gets thrown on a lot legacy characters
Besides, he's based off Jeph Loeb's son. If people want to say mean things about him, they'll stick to that.

>>85216083
>>85216083
>Even with all that shit they have him from the start?
Sam needed BETTER advertising, not just MORE of it. They obviously had lofty goals for him, but they didn't give adequate support to him other than token gestures.
A character skin and a lego minifig aren't a whole lot of positive branding to see sales growths.

I just don't see how a book that started in 2013 can be said to be a failure. It's not like they were printing the issues on gold bars or anything. They weren't breaking the bank to pimp him out.

People are quick to say that they hate Sam, but why do you like Richard so much?
I certainly enjoy him, but not nearly at the levels that you guys do. What am I not seeing here?

>>85216301
Because other books got cancelled for having equally bad sales.
He only got a free pass for all that for the same reason Captain Marvel does.

>>85216331
>Because other books got cancelled for having equally bad sales.
Which books?

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>>85216331
>He only got a free pass for all that for the same reason Captain Marvel does.
Lolwut?
Carol's book was cancelled twice. Plus mainlining A-Force, Ultimates, and Civil War.
Sam has had his book, and been in New Warriors (kind of), and one of three heads in the Avengers.
How can you look at these >>85214814 sales and say it's the same thing?

>obvious bait
>200 replies

Welcome to /co/.

>>85216344
Off the top of my head
>X men Legacy
>Scarlet Spider
>Agent Venom
>Defenders
All of which, by the way, were selling higher than Sam is now when they were cancelled

>>85216537
>>X men Legacy
Didn't that just end, rather than being cancelled?

>>85201875
>calling out Stark in a what if?
Wasn't a What If.

>>85216510
>2016 is the best selling on average
Well, it's not undeserved.

>>85216693
yeah, plus Defenders was pretty shitty
Sam hate is completely undeserved
I don't think I love anything as much as Sam is hated

>>85216141
It's like Whor. It's a shitty pun that someone came up with and thought they were really clever for that doesn't really do anything but make people look like assholes when they use it.

>>85216746
It's amazing how close all of those lines are too.
Consistent.

>>85216787
>but make people look like assholes when they use it
Yeah, those gross nerds bullying the imaginary character should just f**k the hell off right!

>>85216787
It's really not. It's an abbreviation. Nobody's being racist with it. Like I said, "INO" gets thrown around quite a bit.
If people want to say mean things about him, they'll bring up what he's based on.

>>85216784
Sam earned his hate. Marvel decided to let it build up rather than actually work on him
It's no surprise this is where we're at with Sam. Obscurity is hanging over his head and the original Nova is coming back.

>>85216510
Just because I have it open, here are the numbers.

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>>85217105
Messed some columns up.

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>>85217168

>>85216318
It's a fucking mystery man. I was fond of Rich too, he was the classic underdog fish out of water hero who had greatness thrust upon him in Annihilation. Was a good story. But that was before his dick riders infested this board. Now I see the praise they heap on him and the ridiculous hate they spew at his legacy and I just can't understand the appeal. There are so many better characters in Marvel, let alone Cosmic. I feel like they don't read too many comics outside Annihilation.

I like his helmet.

>>85215872
>racist pun
Are you fucking kidding me? Lol, don't give them too much credit.

Also Sam is white as fuck, light skin and blue eyes doesn't even speak Spanish, you wouldn't know he was hispanic if not for his mom.

>>85216318
I think people were really angry at how shitty his character was treated after Thanos Imperative and the way the whole Nova corps history got ignored and set aside for the longest and how Sam was initially treated like he was the best thing ever (Thor even invited him to the Avengers although nothing came out of it) the old fanbase was mad.

And it wasn't a good transition of a legacy character, just lool at Blue Beetle and how even when they were initially upset the Ted fans took a liking to Jaime, because Ted was mourned by other characters, Jaime respected him and cared about his legacy, and Ted still hada presence even after his death.

It also helped that Jaime had a bunch of fucking good stories and a great supporting cast, Sam had some good stories here and there but he couldn't keep a consistent supporting cast and with the exception og Duggan's his runs were forgettable and the whole search for his dad thing ran too long.

Another good transition was Barry to Wally, mainly because Barry fans already knew who Wally was and though some didn’t like it they ended up accepting.

Also the few Wendell Vaughn fans that I've talked to who are upset with Spencer's OC getting the quantum bands told me they didn’t mind much when Phyla got them.

BTW other shitty transition of the whole handing of the torch were Whor and Kyle Rayner.

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>>85220831

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>>85217952
>>85216318
I don't hate Dam but I'll bite

When Rich started off, he was a bullied kid with a strict father, and an overachieving genius little brother. Unlike other bullied characters like Peter Parker, he was different by virtue of being ordinary to the Nth power– he didn’t even have genius or any special gifts to rely on. He wasn’t some chemistry whiz that could create web fluid and be witty in super fights. He was just an average plain kid who got C’s and D’s even when he tried his hardest, and who sometimes even came off as not that bright.

What he did have was a ton of courage, determination, and a giant heart, but like many people, he couldn’t see himself in the same light that others saw him in.

As part of his characterization, Rich was shown as constantly down on himself and often was depressed. At times, he talked about how he felt worthless and like he was a nobody. Even with his heroism, he acted as if helping so many people didn’t make him special in any way and that it did hardly anything to make him worthwhile.

And, very significantly, at one point, he even almost killed himself. When he lost his powers once, Night Thrasher (who was forming the New Warriors) theorized that he could regain them with an adrenaline rush so he tossed Rich off a building. That happened to coincide with Rich being sent the power again by the Xandarians, making it SEEM as if being tossed off the building worked.

So a few years later, when he lost his powers again in a different incident, he decided the best way to get them back was to jump off a building to recreate his former fall. Before he did it, he even had a near death experience where he had suicidal ideation and ruminated on how it was disappointing he hadn’t died.

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>>85221927
Basically, Rich had such low self esteem that he thought that without the ability to be a superhero and help people that he was utterly worthless. He even wrote a suicide note to his then-girlfriend Laura explaining that he couldn’t live without being a superhero, that he wasn’t strong enough, that he needed to be able to help people to be even the tiniest bit worthwhile.

He decided he needed to live with powers or not at all and felt dying was an acceptable alternative to the fall not working.

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>>85221956

>>85221927
Damn.
Is it bad that this only makes me want to see him as a mentor to Sam more?

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>>85221983
After the Annihilation War, Rich showed other signs of mental illness and trauma, as one could possibly expect from a war veteran.

As someone with depression, and has felt worthless for large parts of my life, this really resonated with me as a reader. Here was this hero that showed signs of low self esteem and depression. Here was a hero that even wrote a suicide note and threw himself off a building, who felt there was barely anything that made him worthwhile enough to exist. Here was a hero that was dealing with trauma from a hostile situation.

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>>85222078
And sure there have been other mentally ill characters but Rich was created decades ago and has had a long run that’s allowed a lot of people to get exposed to him and identify with him. They've watched him grow up and adapt time after time as life’s thrown him curve balls that have hit on his issues. Like trying to adjust to friends dying and life after war (poc related)

That long journey means his fans got to watch him work through all that to be a good friend and teammate, to be someone that saved people and did something worthwhile. Maybe he was too poor to afford a subway token, maybe he wasn’t good at anything else, but he was good at helping people and he still could do something good in the world, even while being down on himself. Someone who felt small went on to do big things.

>>85222162
Thanks for sharing, man. Got any recs for if we want to "follow" him from start to finish, as it were?

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>>85222162
He's also a huge nerd

And therein lay the problem with people claiming he’s Bland McWhitebread. Let’s face it, most people who dislike him haven’t read 40 years of his comics.

It’s understandable if people don’t like the character, but if people can’t at least see why he might appeal to some people, they’re just not looking hard enough. Because there’s something meaty in the concept of a sometimes-depressed, good-humored, dorkface, cosmic war veteran who dropped out of high school and who had long stretches of being in poverty and struggling to get by.

Some superheroes have those traits but rarely all bundled in one character. And rarely does a superhero with self esteem issues get thrust into a place of respect and adulation the way the intergalactic community respects Rich. Personally I enjoy the idea that a depressive person with low self esteem can grow up to be Space General Superman.

>>85221991
Not really, they are very similar characters with similar backgrounds except Sam has a supportive household despite his alcoholic and absent dad and Sam tends to be more upbeat despite the shit that gets flinged at him.

Rich would protect the shit out of him, probably because he wouldn't want him to experience some of the stuff he did and Sam would be a shining light to Rich's more depressing moods.

They are also very similar characters if you think about it

>>85222200
http://xyriath.tumblr.com/post/47469935796/nova-rich-rider-masterpost

This has the gist of things.

>>85222492
Now Sam existing doesn’t preclude Rich from being alive and it never did, hence why Marvel is bringing Rich back and letting them star together. In fact, Sam’s popularity as a character in some of the cartoons has probably even helped lay down groundwork with Rich’s return. Nova isn’t a character that only hardcore fans who read cosmic would know about. Now kids who get their parents to buy toys know about the Nova name now.

And Sam is totally unlike Rich in some ways but that’s specifically why he’s a great character. Where Rich internalized bullying, Sam always fights back, whether it’s for himself or someone else. He refuses to take abuse sitting down. In this way, he’s stronger than Rich was at a similar age, with a stronger sense of self. Even if he gets confused or angry or sad, he never dwells in it long enough to take inside himself as truth. He’s strong that way.

He can also be a very kind and gentle person even if he undergoes hardships, times of great sadness and loss. In these moments he’s vulnerable and sad, but despite that, and despite his young age he’s still strong enough to work past them.

Considering that he’s a very young hero, his resilience is admirable and that vulnerability isn’t always something writers let their heroes have.

This is also the same kid that helped his alcoholic father home from his job as a janitor at the school and then Sam would stay late do his work for him. To take care of his father and take care of his mother and sister since they couldn’t afford his dad losing his job. This kid was cleaning public high school toilets for the sake of his family. Despite his flaws and his past issues with his father, Sam is a character who’s ruled by love and compassion.

>>85222492
>Let’s face it, most people who dislike him haven’t read 40 years of his comics.
And most people who like him only read Annihilation

>>85222629
Sam’s also sometimes impetuous, rash, and hotheaded. And sometimes flat out dumb like when he took his helmet off in midair.

And you know what? Rich was dumb too. Rich made a ton of mistakes starting out. But whenever he made them he tried his best to patch things up afterward, until he grew up to be a war hero, and Sam’s no different in that department which makes Sam a great blend of some of Rich’s traits and some entirely new ones all his own.

Both Sam and Rich are good characters with tons of history and potential and they would make a great duo and would benefit from each other really well.

>>85222664
So? They could benefit from reading more about him but if they like him from that one story who cares? The Sam haters and the Rich haters are both toxic, IDGAF about them and I am happy Rich is back and I will get a comic with my two fav Novas.

>>85221991
Rich mentoring Sam in a nutshell

In a dangerous situation
>Rich: OK we are cornered, um, I have a plan
>Sam: You do?
>Rich: Yeah [does something dangerous and stupid that he just thought at the moment]
>Sam: Woah

Afterwards
>Rich: Sam, did you see that thing I just did? >Sam: Yeah!! THAT WAS SOOO COOL!
>Rich: Don’t do that.
>Sam: Okay. [Somewhere along the line eventually ends up doing the thing anyway]
>Rich: Saaaaaam!

Basically Rich is a hothead who wings it and does crazy things but has the experience and skill to back it up, he sets a bad example and Sam ends up giving Rich some heart attacks.

>>85221927
>>85221956
>>85222078
>>85222162
>>85222492
>>85222629
>>85222801
Damn, that's some real interesting stuff. It's really refreshing to see someone who deeply cares about Rich as a character. I appreciate the explanation man, you've turned my opinions around again. Might have to go back and read some of his older stuff now.