Why hasn't this version of Batman, the DCEU Batman who has

>>84878739
Because it makes the inevitable Red Hood movie even better

The impression I keep getting from the Suicide Squad stuff is that this Joker is incredibly hard to kill. I'm sure he's not still alive from lack of trying.

>>84878739
> I LITERALLY CAN'T GO A DAY WITHOUT DISCUSSING CAPESHIT AND KILLING, PLEASE SOMEONE KEEP ME FROM BEING LONELY

experiment with going outside, you might find someone

>>84878739
The Joker is a magical entity in the DCEU

Because he only started killing recently as far as BVS goes. Not sure why people don't seem to get this.

>>84879221
Is that explicitly stated or is this inferring or bull?

Man, that was a gloomy Bruce. Even Alfred didn't give a fuck any more.

He thinks he did, only for the new joker to appear (Jason Todd) and after he becomes Red Hood, the real joker will come out of hiding.

>>84878739
same reason why the coyote never ate the road runner in those old cartoons.

>>84879221
Judging from the piked pole that's with the Robin suit, that's bullshit. If Robin was killing people, you can damn well be sure Batman has been.

>>84879221

Well the movie refuses to give any real sense of time or place, so that's on Snyder.

>why establish anything concrete in my movie? I have so much more badass imagery to put in first!

>>84879339
David Ayer said that his Joker isn't Jason Todd. He could be lying, but I doubt he is.

>>84879299
Inferring. Supposedly, it was supposed to be incredibly obvious from Alfred's speech, but that's pretty much as far as it goes. We have no way of knowing if Bruce was always killing or if it's a new thing. All we know is that he becomes meaner. Don't let Snyderfags tell you it was obvious because Alfred''s speech could be interpreted differently by anyone

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>>84879299

It's implicitly stated.

Basically since Superman showed up with the colossal attack on Metropolis Batman has been having an existential crisis. Alfred's lines are good for understanding this, as is Batman's little speech about how criminals are like weeds.

Superman literally redeems Batman and Batman realises he's been being overly dramatic about stuff and his "Men are still good" line to Diana shows his redemption.

Also, as an earlier poster said>>84878773 Batman probably tried to kill the Joker after the death of Jason Todd (like he did in the comics), but the Joker survived because like Batman the Joker has plot armor.

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>>84878986
Dude, this is a board dedicated to talking about capeshit. Calm your tits.

>>84879421
>Assuming assumptions
>>84879299
Alfred pretty much states multiple times that he's not a fan if Bruce's more brutal way of doing thing. That was what the whole "cruel men" speech was about.

Funny in the one movie where Batman killing people is actually acknowledged in story gets flack but the Burton movies where he outright murders left and right, and the authorities are OK with it almost never got called on it

>>84878739
because death is too good for The Joker. he need to break him with his Bat-Dick

>>84879565
The reason people give Burton's movie a pass is because of nostalgia. Same reason Man of Steel gets shit over the older Superman films.

>>84878739
Batman needs Joker.
Joker needs Batman.
They complete eachother.

>>84879565
>>84879633
As a cartoonfag the no kill rule wasn't introduced till btas which was after the burton-bat. I think most people use that timeline.

>>84879565

Burton never pretended he was making an accurate Batman movie, he was making Tim Burton movies first and comic-book movies second.

And those movies had things like gorgeous cinematography, decent acting, compelling action sequences, entertaining character arcs, you know all those other things movies should have that Snyder forgot to put in.

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>>84880067
>compelling action sequences
Really ?

>>84880158

They're corny as hell but still entertaining, and I cared about what was going on in them.

>>84878770
This tbqhwymm80

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>>84878739
Because this.

>>84880067

Snyder's Batman is accurate comic book movie version of the character. Batman doesn't just kill for no reason, his brutality is depicted to being a major character flaw that gets overcome by the end of the movie when Superman shows there is still hope for man.

>>84880365

>when Superman shows there is still hope for man.

As long as humankind still has mothers named Martha, we'll all be fine.

And I sure am glad that Supes had to be fridged so Batman could get his groove back. 11/10 storytelling Snyder, really respectful of the characters in your story.

>>84880436
That Bruce was actually going to kill Superman was a little crazy. Having a contingency plan is one thing but he had no reason real reason to kill Clark.

>>84880436
>not expecting Superman to die heroically when he fights Doomsday
>not understanding heroic sacrifice is 10/10 Superman
>failing to see the impact and inspiration that would have on other people

Shameful.

Look it was a dark couple months for Bruce alright?

>>84880550

>implying Doomsday should have been in the movie at all

>implying he didn't just do it to save his waifu because she's the only person they bother to give Clark an actual connection to besides his mom

>implying anyone could be inspired by this one-note lump of coal version of Superman even if he sacrificed himself

The entire third act of BvS is an unmitigated Battlefield Earth-tier disaster. Even if you want to argue the first two acts are some sort of 3deep capekino, any pretensions to depth are lost the second Batman and Superman start fighting.

>>84878739
>>84878773
Because he retired from being Batman by apprehending the Joker and maintaining his no killing rule.

Its only when Zod invades and Metropolis is destroyed that he actually comes back frmo retirement and drops the no killing rule.

THIS IS FUCKING EXPLAINED IN THE MOVIE. STOP ASKING RETARDED SHIT.

>>84880664
Part of the disappointment of the final battle is that at that point you stop giving a shit and want the movie to be over

>Be Batman v Superman
>Batman has been killing pretty much his entire movie career
>Decide to work this fact into the narrative as a large part of the film is based on deconstructing various facets of the characters in pop culture
>The context of the character is him being over the edge and having fallen into darkness
>Criminal scum get killed during Batman's singular quest to destroy Superman as he is blinded by rage and fueled by vengeance
>Batman takes out a few more in the frantic effort to save Martha Kent as her life is literally minutes from being over
>literally give a reason for the deaths
>At the end of the film Superman's sacrifice reminds Bruce of what he was meant to do and means to turn his life around

>people complain about Batman killing and can't understand why the Joker is alive


>literally no one complained like this when Nolan batman killed.

It's like fucking audiences are stillborn retards.

>>84880436
The whole third act is Exhibit A for the "Snyder hates Superman" truthers.

>>84880197
I suppose it's a matter of taste. To me, the Burton action scenes come off as stiff, awkward, and forgettable. They were by far the weakest parts of those movies.

>>84880810
Only raging autists like Devin Faraci believe that.

>>84880867
Snyder is SOMETHING towards Superman. He doesn't exactly hate him, but if he loves him he has a really funny way of showing it.

>>84880436
fridging is for women only anon

>>84880799
They see only that they can.

>>84880526

Batman stopped believing in the cause and actually started to see it as harmful. He wanted to die killing Superman, taking them both out.

Batman was not well in his noggins.

>>84880895
You know how both movies are filled with Jesus motifs? I think Snyder actually fucking worships Superman. I think he treats him like a god.

Which would be hilarious, because that badly misses the point of Superman, and Snyder MADE A MOVIE about everyone missing the point of Superman.

>>84880664

>implying he didn't just do it to save his waifu because she's the only person they bother to give Clark an actual connection to besides his mom

The end wasn't about Superman sacrificing himself to save Lois, it was about Lois giving him strength to keep fighting for the world.

Superman felt guilty and ashamed, and started to think, almost like Batman, that him going around trying to help people as Superman was actually being harmful. Because that's what the media and congress was selling.

That scene with Pa Kent was to show that sometimes bad things will happen, even when you're trying to do good, and that yeah that's awful and hard, but you've got to keep trying anyway. Just find someone you love and that love you back to give you strength during the rough moments. Pak Kent found that in Ma Kent. She helped ease his nightmares.

That's what the end with Lois was. Superman acknowledging to Lois that she gave him strength to come back as Superman and that he had a job to do: dealing with Doomsday.

>>84880992

The Jesus and God motifs are there just to show the impact of Superman in the world.

Basically what these movies are trying to do is take the idea of super-hero out of the equation.
You know kinda like how in The Walking Dead comic and series people call the zombies as Walkers because they've no frame of reference as to what zombies are.
The same thing with the DCEU movies. People have no idea what super-hero is, so instead of thinking or referring to Superman as a super-hero, they address him as alien or a god-like figure walking among them. Even Batman is treated more as a demon or some sort of monster in BvS.

>>84881249
I am not sure, in hindsight, that this was the best course of action.

>>84881287

I find these sort of things odd and pretentious as well.

Well, not so much in the case of Superman, because of his powers. He really is god-like in certain ways. But the way people address Batman as "Bat of Gotham" or "The Bat" bothered me a bit. It's fucking Batman! For fuck's sake.

>>84880683
Funny Snyder supposedly makes such "dumb" films yet these people can't seem to grasp such a simple plot detail. What's that say about them?

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>>84881249
This.

>>84880992
Biblical similarities was already planted in Superman's roots by his creators.
Also stop projecting. Now, when you have time.

>>84881249

But The Walking Dead was not using previously established fictional characters to tell its story.

You can't blatantly steal iconography from The Dark Knight Returns and then pretend you're rewriting the paradigm of superhero stories. This movie would make literally no sense unless you have a deep knowledge of the DC universe, and yet Snyder wants to trade on that while going "IT'S A BOLD NEW DIRECTION IGNORE EVERYTHING YOU KNOW ABOUT THESE CHARACTERS!"

You can't have both. Say what you want about the Nolan trilogy, if you didn't know dick about Batman you could follow that entire trilogy as films on their own merits.

>>84881392

>What's that say about them?

That his stories are so poorly-told that it's hard to even follow the basic narrative and character arcs of his films?

>>84881509
But the whole point of Superman is that he's just a guy. He's a decent guy who loves his parents, works his job, and has a sunny disposition, and oh, by the way, is the most powerful being on the planet. That's his whole shtick, but we don't see this at all in Snyder's films. His Superman is all ubermensch, all the time.

I mean, fuck, even Golden Age Supes was really concerned with the issues of his friends and neighbors, and his fellow man. He beat up shitty landlords back in the day. And it was always important that he was pretty normal.

>>84881587
lol wut

The entirety of Batman v Superman is to point out that Superman is more man than anything else.

>>84881623
See, I didn't get that vibe. Snyder seemed much more interested in deifying Superman from my perspective.

>>84878739
Batman only got more brutal when Superman showed up. He didnt feel like killing the Joker before (or maybe he did which is why there are more movies on the way).
>>84881392
People dont expect to overthink character motivations in big blockbusters. Either that or Marvel has really dumbed down the capeshit audience.

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>>84881392

People for some reason have a really hard time understanding certain aspects of BvS. I don't know why.

For example lots of people don't understand why Batman wanted to kill Superman.

They think that Batman didn't knew that Superman was fighting Zod or that he's going around the world helping people, or they think that Batman was merely trying to take revenge from what happened for the Wayne Tower in Metropolis.

When actually the movie plainly show that Batman stopped believing in vigilantism or heroism. He started to see it as futile and harmful. Just men playing heroes and fucking things up.

Batman line of thought was: "When i fuck things up i'm only harming Gotham, but when Superman fuck things up the whole world is in danger."

That's why Batman became progressively more madder as the news of Superman fuck-ups started to pile up. Because the news only reaffirmed his line of thinking.

To him both Batman and Superman had to die. They weren't heroes. Real heroes are normal people that bleed and die like his father, not people like them playing costumes and ruining lives.

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>>84881587
I said stop projecting.

>>84881687
Are you sure you're not just reading in things that aren't there? Because you're right, people DIDN'T see this. Critics and audiences both missed this and all this other shit you people hold up as evidence that the movie is secretly brilliant. Either it's not actually there, or Snyder failed to properly convey it.

>>84881687
It was written by Oscar-winner, no wonder normies didn't get it.

>>84881644

Scott Snyder only deified Superman from the perspective of the media. You know, the fear mongers selling paranoia and distrust. Every time Superman is shown through the lens of the media through the talking heads everything Superman does is distorted and twisted.

But when we see Superman or Clark through the normal moments we see just a guy trying to do the right thing and feeling frustrated that no one is paying attention to things that are truth and real.

>>84881687
This is a good interpretation.

You're also not the first person I've seen make this argument.

I posted >>84881334 which I think is a pretty good literal breakdown of the character in the film, but yours can fit just as well as an additional layer

This is why I love the movie, there are some flaws in execution, but the conceptual and thematic underpinnings simply blow out of the water most other cape flicks, if not all.

>>84881774
In his private moments we see Clark confide in his mother, come home with flowers to his girlfriend, take the ferry across to the city over, etc. All he wants to do is help others, and he is struggling with the projections people are throwing onto him, and with the fear that his desire to help is hurting others. His character arc is overwhelmingly human.

>>84880683
>>84881392

So why was he still brutal after he stopped himself from killing Superman?

>>84881739

>Are you sure you're not just reading in things that aren't there?

Well, maybe i might be wrong, but let's track some of the scenes.

The movie opens with Bruce having a dream about his parents deaths and the cave with the bats, saying that he thought that the bats had taken him into the light but that the whole thing was a lie.

Then we see that Batman has abandoned his morals. That killing a criminal now is just like pulling a weed. That more would grow. This is a pretty defeatist type of thinking.

Then there are the scene where Alfred confronts him. Alfred can see that Superman is a hero and that he does good, but what is Bruce rebuttal? "Twenty years in Gotham, Alfred; we've seen what promises are worth. How many good guys are left? How many stayed that way?".

Then there are the scenes where Alfred remind Bruce that him fighting Superman is suicide. Bruce pretty much admit it to him. Bruce wasn't expecting to come back from his confrontation.

>>84881774
Counterpoint: if this were a proper Superman movie, he wouldn't be nearly as misunderstood. The DC universe isn't our universe. It's the Marvel universe that tries to be like ours.

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>>84881973
>Counterpoint: if this were a proper Superman movie, he wouldn't be nearly as misunderstood. The DC universe isn't our universe. It's the Marvel universe that tries to be like ours.

>>84881928

Because he still hadn't thought about it. Bruce only thought about the whole thing after Superman's death.

Bruce saved Superman's mother because he jumped on the chance of saving a "Martha". That spoke to him.

It was only after Superman's help and sacrifice in dealing with Doomsday that Bruce felt remorseful.

>>84881928
He realized Superman wasn't the enemy he thought he was, but it wasn't until he witnessed Superman willing to die to save everyone that he woke up to the fact that he needs to be better as a true hero in order to truly honor him.

Besides, considering the situation, Batman pretty much acted the only way he could to save Martha in time.

>>84882010

Someone should replace Ma and Pa's lines with ones from the movies.

>>84882013
>>84882016

>Superman had to die so Batman could complete his arc

They fucking fridged him. Snyder sacrificed Superman so Batman could get over his case of the feels with no regard to Clark as a character.

>>84882013
>>84882016
Couldn't we have done all this without Superman having to die?

I'm a Supesfag and I genuinely fucking hate that he's been shoved to the side so we can have the fucking Batman show AGAIN.

>>84881965

>Alfred: You know you can't win this. It's suicide.
>Bruce Wayne: I'm older now than my father ever was. This may be the only thing I do that matters.
>Alfred: Twenty years of fighting criminals amounts to nothing?
>Bruce Wayne: Criminals are like weeds, Alfred; pull one up, another grows in its place. This is about the future of the world. This is my legacy.

We can see here that Bruce wanted to die. Him being older than his father actually hurts him.

>>84882057
you say that as if Batman and the JL aren't going to get BTFO in Justice League until Superman comes in and saves the day

>>84882053
>>84882057

I actually would be fine if the movie ended with Batman saving Martha and Superman confronting Lex after he summoned Steppenworfl, apprehending him. You could have a later scene with Bruce, Clark and Diana talking things through at the Kents farm. Bruce excusing himself and revealing what Lex had said.

>>84882136

Snyder said the big reason he killed Superman was so that Batman would be the one to form the Justice League. Just let that sink in.

But he totally likes Superman you guys!

>>84882057
We could have, but having Supes sacrifice himself like that really solidified him as a cool bro and made Bruce feel like a huge dick. Plus it gives him more reason to track down and recruit meta humans since uh oh- a big bad is coming and we kinda just killed the one guy who could probably stop it.

>>84879634

Bullshit.

Joker would have to deal The Question , Crimson Avenger, and all the other detective-type heroes. Batman has every other villain to deal with. If it's not the villains, it's corruption in the politics and business world. If it's not Gotham, it's the rest of the world. Batman would still be pretty busy without Joker.

>>84879634
LMAO, NOLAN MOVIES DUDE

>>84880683
where is this shit stated, pls?

>>84881739
>Are you sure you're not just reading in things that aren't there?
>"how many good guys are left, how many stayed that way"
>"even if there is a one percent chance, we have to take it as an absolute certainty"

Of course Ben could spell it out but this really should be enough to understand Batmans motivations.

>>84882379

there is no mention of the killing but everyone was commenting how Batman became more ruthless since superman appeared.

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>Normies still uncomfortable with Batman's manslaughtering
Good job, Snyder for completely destroying "no-killing rule as absolute" bullshit. RedHood fags must suffer.

>hurr Golden Age Batman

Then where the fuck are Batfleck's purple gloves?

>>84882556
enjoy you less compelling character

>>84881333
he is a legend, no one knows he is just a human. they think he might have powers, or might not.

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>>84882057
its part of the Hero's journey anon. MoS is the first third of the hero's journey (ending with the call to action), BvS is the second third (ending with the death bit), and JL will be that last third. His death was necessary.

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>>84882583
>b-but b-but golden age!

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>>84882595
>enjoy you less compelling character
>Dude that avoids killing when it's necessary by deus ex machines is more compelling
Okkk.

>>84882057

Snyder has a point about how it doesn't make sense to go and build a Justice League if you already have world's greatest hero around. In order for the JL movie to work, Superman needs to be away and it's Batman who builds the league because of Superman's absence and the upcoming threat. Superman's heroic sacrifice also gives BvS a better ending because he dies to save the world and it's that sacrifice that wins the world finally over. You could not achieve it simply by Superman punching a bad guy down in the climax or personally arresting Lex and exposing him. There would be doubt, because that's how people act. It's far harder to contest a martyr, a dead hero you can deify.

joker dies killed by his son batlo mann

>>84878739
The Jokers mother is named Martha.

>>84882260
>>84878739
why hasn't the question killed the joker?

>>84881333
This isnt the first time Batman has been betrayed as a monster or boogeyman though

>>84883213
Why would he?

>>84883346
>Why would he?
because it is a good Question

>>84882941
Joker isn't good guy.

Watched this again yesterday...

When Supes flies over to Gotham to fight Batman, Batman is waiting for him on the roof next to the Bat signal. When Superman lands they mysteriously teleport to the alley below.

Bad form, Snyder...

>>84879422
He didn't write the film you faggot.

>>84879633
My man.

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>>84880067
>Burton had gorgeous cinematography and Snyder didn't
What the fuck?

>>84880436
>An alien with the power to destroy the world begs for Batman to save his human mother in the face of death and goes on to give his life for humanity.
yeah what the fuck right

>>84881529
>it's hard to even follow the basic narrative and character arcs of his films
You don't have to be intelligent to follow them, but you're unintelligent if you can't.

>>84880683
He never retired. That's not even implied.

>>84878739
He would run Joker over if it was during his "I HATE SUPERMAN" rampage, but didn't run into him. Lucky for Joker, I guess.

>>84885062
They love lying to make Snyder look bad. BvS had the most beautiful scenes in any movie.

>>84882556
he is allowed to kill but not here
>>84884988

>>84885096
What an edgelord.

>>84885152
That's the crux of it all.

>>84885554
>he is allowed to kill but not here
Why?

>>84886880
Leaves the question of why he kills random mooks but not the big players that are sure to cause more problems down the line, especially if one of them killed a Robin.

>>84880683
> muh d.c.

>>84881392
You d.cucks. will defend the dumbest plot points. Reminds me of star wars episode 1 when fan boys were just coming up with excuses for huge plot holes and out of character portrayals

>>84886880
its literaly explained in the thread i linked to
its because this should be a more traditional interpretation

>>84891072
>its literaly explained in the thread i linked to
yeah and it's a bullshit "explanation" made to allow people to dodge when getting called on hypocrisy.

There are two reasons people don't call out the Burton Movies for doing the same shit as BVS.
One: Nostalgia
Two: Zack Snyder

>>84886912
A question one wouldn't be asking had he paid attention to the fucking movie.

>>84879510
No, /tv/ is the capeshit board. Superhero comics are dying. Film and TV series are much better mediums for that genre. Most geek culture oriented comics are dying and that's a good thing. Geeks have been destroying the comic medium far too long.

>>84891407
Oh, you're one of those faggots.
> Film and TV series are much better mediums for that genre
Kill yourself you fucking piece of trash.

>>84878739
Because if he did they would be unable to use him in a future movie.

>>84878770
You mean worse, unless you dislike Batman

>>84880436
>not realizing that Superman is Jesus
>not realizing that Batman is St. Peter/St. Paul
>he is now going to found the Superman Church called the Justice League

>>84878739
It's time to let it go bud

Why didn't Christopher Nolan's Batman who killed multiple people on screen kill the Joker?

>>84878739
Because Joker has been in Arkham since he started killing.

Also, based on the Suicide Squad leaks his Joker isn't the same mass murderer as most other incarnations. In fact, in the leaked script he just kills a few gangsters and goes on a car chase for fun. That's vigilante+teenage celebrity tier.

>>84891817
Prove to me it isn't then. The reason those genres (superheroes/sci-fi/fantasy) became so huge in comics was because it was much easier than to make movies since the special effects weren't that great back in the day. But now you can put the creator's vision on to the big screen easily.

>>84880683
>>84880683
Nowhere does it imply or state that he retired

>>84885152
>>84885152
Sucker Punch truly was a once in a lifetime storytellng masterwork with a very clear and concise plot

>>84880067
>compelling action sequences
Good for the time given that the Batsuit was restritive, but compelling is a bit of an exxageration.
>entertaining character arcs
No. Batman himself was barely a character in them, let alone having anything resembling an arc. Catwoman is the only person in two movies with anything like a good character arc.

>>84892228
>You mean worse, unless you dislike Batman
It adds another dimension to the character, if you want Batman pure it could be implied that he stopped looking for Joker altogether after Jasons death

Alfred outright states the way Bruce has been doing things has changed after Superman showed up. (and the implied Robin death happening around the same time)

The whole Batman character arc is him realizing just how close to the edge he was getting. The end of BvS is him deciding he won't be so brutal anymore and that he'll build the Justice League.

He probably did try to kill the Joker after the death of Robin. Joker got away and has been laying low since. Suicide Squad (which takes place after BvS) has Bats catch him and bring him in.

It's going to make a potential adaption of Under the Red Hood really interesting. It would make the lines Bruce gives at the end MUCH more powerful. Plus it would give the dead Robin a much better character motivation.

>>84892518
>muh special effects
You're an idiot. This is the worst reason for something becoming a better medium now. I bet you think horror movies get better with each year too.
>creator's vision
You're serious, aren't you? Cape comic writers, at least those worth mentioning, put some effort into their writing. TV/Film writers would either play it safe like all of MCU not counting godawful Netflix trash or put out garbage like Zack Snyder's.

Aside from things that work in comics not working live-action like the Russian Roulette issue of Frank Miller's Daredevil which is powerful on pages but would feel cheesy in live-action, it's been proven time and time again that even the most mediocre cape comic runs are better than any of the cape movies/series ever made, so your "film and TV are superior mediums for capes" bullshit is nothing more than that. Bullshit.

>>84892518
Hardly easily but it's becoming possible.

Even if Batman started killing just recently, you might think his first victim is the killer of his sidekick.

Isn't the whole reason Joker has false teeth in Suicide Squad because Batman almost beat him to death after the Robin incident?

Sounds like Bats would have killed him but something got in the way or the Joker escaped somehow.

>>84880683
>THIS IS FUCKING EXPLAINED IN THE MOVIE

It actually isn't.

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>>84879565
>Assuming assumptions

You're right anon, this is a non-lethal axe that Robin is wielding

>>84879505
Are they setting up injustice?

>>84893115
>This is the worst reason for something becoming a better medium now.
Capeshit is all about fightscenes and explosions anyway so yes, it actuall is a good reason.

>Cape comic writers, at least those worth mentioning, put some effort into their writing.
Yeah right. Mainstream geek culture oriented comic writers couldn't give a shit. It's just another job for them. They want to write for TV/movie scripts or be actual authours.

>>84894659
>I have no argument, better shitpost CAPESHIT CAPESHIT CAPESHIT XDDDD
Kill yourself, indiefag cancer.

>>84895205
>I don't agree with him so I call it shitposting
Capeshit comics are dying, just deal with it.

>>84895341
>i-it's not shitposting if I said so
Didn't I tell you to fuck off? You obviously have nothing intelligent to say judging by your responses so stop shitting up the thread.