What the hell happened? When and why did Marvel have such a

Their best stuff was in the sixties, seventies and eighties. They've been growing steadily worse for decades. You're just now getting old enough and experienced enough to notice.

>>84627664
Idk. Astonishing X-men, New Avengers for awhile, Brubaker's Captain America, Immortal Iron Fist.

Marvel had a decent resurgence like 10 years ago up until 2010 then I feel like it started falling off little by little to 2012 then in the last 3 it just died.

>>84627453
>Marvel
>Good

When?

>>84627453
>Low talent pool of writers and artists?
nailed it.

Most of their top tier writers left for indie work. The few that aren't just writing their own stuff are now at DC.

>>84627453
>Is it because they've replaced so many established characters with legacy characters?

>The X-men property being ignored?

Nope Characterfaggotry is always unhealthy.

Oh look! It's that very same shitpost thread that's been put up five times already!

I wonder how long it will be before the openly racist /pol/ posts start again?

Doesn't matter! Because nobody obeys board rules, do they?

Probs cuz they realize they can get away with releasing dreck and MCU cucks would still buy it regardless because hype.

>>84628244
Marvel has been terrible for years now, /pol/ has nothing to do with their lack of quality

>>84627453
>The X-men property being ignored?
This is the only good thing. If only they could ignore inhumans too.

>>84628244
>anon critics marvel = racism
kek

>>84628244
Honestly, I put it up because I feel like their has been a drop in quality, especially in the last 3-4 years. I chose "legacy characters" wording to avoid as much of the obnoxious /pol/ crowd as possible.

Do you feel like Marvel comics are just as good today as they were 10 years ago? 5 years ago?

Why or why not?

>>84627453
>When
After AvX
>why
Editorial wasn't letting their best creatives do their best work, leading many big names to leave over the past 4 years.

>>84628345
Fite me, then we do the team up thing and fite the Inhumans.

>>84627453
>Low talent pool of writers and artists?
Mostly this, with a little bit of this
>Is it because they've replaced so many established characters with legacy characters?
But only because legacy's are lazy by nature and only get popular by riding off better character's deserved popularity.

>>84628376
>A&XvI

>>84628475
>>A&XvI
Beg pardon?

>>84627453
It's not like they have to try
Just stick Bendis on a few books, take a relatively seasoned writer or two from DC after they get some fans, make some outrage so they'll get noticed, and slap some variants on. Then they watch all the money roll in and still end up in first.

>>84628508
Avengers and X-Men vs Inhumans....

>>84628532
>implying Avengers won't take the Inhumans side

>>84628532
Oh, I'm a fucking idiot.

>>84628355
You fuckwits wanna bet on if this, or the next completely identical thread that will be posted this month, will include shitposters who start saying how minority races and liberal politics are Marvel's problems?
...and then the thread becomes all neo-nazi butthurt again, just like all the others were.

It's not hard to predict how a shitpost thread will be the same as the last shitpost thread.
For God's sake! They even use the same OP image every time.

>>84627453
liberals and sjw

>>84628524
Idk. It seems like the Star Wars titles are keeping a lot of other things afloat right now.

Although looking at the monthly sales for Civil War 2 are astonishing. I can't believe that many people are buying and reading that garbage.

>>84628601
Yeah, that one shouldn't count...

>>84628599
Nobody's being racist right now. The vast majority of the legacy characters Marvel has right now are objectively terrible.
The only one I kind of liked was the new Ghost Rider, and I haven't seen him anywhere in a long time.
You just have a persecution complex.

>>84628599
I think you just want to shut down any criticism of Marvel since you see the world in black and white. Only the sith deal in absolutes.

>>84628599
I think right now you're as bad as any /pol/ shitposter. You're not adding anything to the conversation if Marvel has indeed gone down in quality or if they have, why?

You're just fanning the flames of other obnoxious /pol/ posters like>>84628601 and>>84628274.

>>84628623
More than their Star Wars titles are selling well

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marvel has dropped in quality the past year or so, DC has been bad for a little long i would say

spidey has been held hostage by slott
hickman is taking a break from non-creator stuff
pander books that have no soul (kamala was surprisingly good, i had no expectations)
or meme books with poor art and talent
fem thor is complete shit, which is mind-boggling since aaron wrote a metal thor
disney sending the F4 & x-men into limbo so marvel gives them lower writers
spurrier's legion was amazing

DC's problem seems to be more management and editorial but that hurts just as bad as writing, but rebirth seems to be big fix

grayson was absolutely based
i have no doubt getting priest on slade will be a defining run
johns is off justice league but might be an idea man now instead of a full-time writer
rucka back on WW (but the cho bullshit just shows editorial didn't user their power)

we'll see how the next 2 years plays out

>>84628645
The new Ghost rider was pretty solid. I'd give Marvel that. Miles is decent too although I haven't read a lot of his new title just Ultimate.

>>84628244
>le /pol/ boogeyman

you're part of the cancer that is killing /co/

>>84628731
Basically all this. I did enjoy Captain Falcon though while it lasted. But now that Steve is back there's really no point to him. Multiple of one characters just really put me off.

I think Marvel literally just stopped putting "quality" into the equation when making comics.

And I don't know if it's them being purposely stupid or going the Moneyball route incorrectly. They like stirring the pot up, grabbing creators that they think will grab people's attention and make people mad (and "thus" get readers), changing characters so that attention is brought to them and people get mad, etc. And, through all this, the actual quality of the comic never really comes up as something to worry about.

Like, to the degree that they'll put a "good" writer on a book, they're doing it precisely so they can market it as "critically acclaimed writer on book Z". They don't seem to care about whether the resulting series is actually decent.

As with most comic things (including the changes needed for DC to go from end of New52 imprint --> DCYou --> Rebirth being a success), I think it essentially boils down to fixing the editing teams and, y'know, shooting Alonso in the face.

DC was lucky as hell that Geoff Johns could do Bob Harras's job in his sleep. I genuinely don't know if Marvel has anyone like that -- which means it'll take firing Alonso, firing the current editors, attracting brand new editors across the board, hiring a new EiC, creating new collaboration processes for the creators and editors, etc.

It took DC about 2-3 years to do most of those things, and that's *without* firing Harras and finding a replacement.

I also have no doubt that Marvel is already trying to fix their editing situation (because there is no way Disney was happy about ANAD, the lukewarm response to Marvel Now, etc.). But even if they go through with it, it'll still take like 3-4 years before the average comic is readable.

>>84628746
Miles is aggressively boring, as is most shit Bendis writes.
The only stuff worthwhile from Bendis is something you can ironically enjoy like CW2.

>>84628599
>basically begging for racist shitposts ITT by complaining about non-existent racist shitposts ITT
>calls everyone else a fuckwit

baka

>>84628712
http://www.comichron.com/monthlycomicssales/2016/2016-06.html

That's still a shitload of Star Wars near the top.

>>84628787
>Ironically enjoy.

Any ironic enjoyment I had was stripped away when he killed off Banner. It was so half assed and sudden. Bruce deserved much more. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d4C1ZQKmw4

>>84628775
>implying Steve being Captain Hydra is not a 'fuck you' to Captain Falcon fans

>>84628658
It's against those fucking rules that nobody enforces anymore.
When it's one opinion based on actual facts and discussion of some form of source material that you can argue for or against, that's legit.
This isn't that and you fucking know it.
What this is and is going to continue to be is baseless slanderous shitposts designed to offend and denegrate the fans of comics.
Nobody will cite a source without lying about what was portrayed in the book, nobody will acknowledge any defense or argument in favor of these comics, nobody will have a conversation in good faith.
The only reason this thread exists is to shitpost, troll, and shout down anyone who actually enjoys comics.

There used to be rules on /co/ about that.
But if they aren't enforcing those rules and are allowing this open rule breaking, seriously, how long until these threads become the places for posting cp?

>>84628879
Yeah, you're right. The OS tie-in for GotG started off in that category, but I was so angry at the end that I ripped a textbook in half.

>>84628904
Seriously, you're still one of the only shitposters.
>>84628645
>>84628623
>>84628712
>>84628731
>>84628746
>>84628775
>>84628784
>>84628787
>>84628865
>>84628879
Zero shitposts and a source about sales. It's like you don't want to acknowledge you're more of a problem than anyone else...

>>84628904
You're the only one shitposting here.
Most of us are having discussion about the decline of Marvel. If you go back just three years ago, you can see how far they've fallen. Marvel is in a very predictable pattern right now, and it's just getting pathetic by this point.
You are genuinely stupid enough to believe that any and all criticisms of Marvel are seeded in racism.

>>84627453
because there shilling out for the movies

>>84628904
>It's against those fucking rules that nobody enforces anymore.

There is no rule being broken here.

>When it's one opinion based on actual facts and discussion of some form of source material that you can argue for or against, that's legit.

This is what we're discussing right now. There has honestly been a decline in quality and we want to discuss it to find out what it is.

>This isn't that and you fucking know it.

See my point above.

>What this is and is going to continue to be is baseless slanderous shitposts designed to offend and denegrate the fans of comics.

You mean like you're doing?

>Nobody will cite a source without lying about what was portrayed in the book, nobody will acknowledge any defense or argument in favor of these comics, nobody will have a conversation in good faith.

What source is there to site, it's a discussion, not a report. No one here is lying about any books, and clearly there are going to be people who like the books. There's probably people who liked Pixels.

>The only reason this thread exists is to shitpost, troll, and shout down anyone who actually enjoys comics.

Again, what you're doing

>There used to be rules on /co/ about that.

No there haven't

>But if they aren't enforcing those rules and are allowing this open rule breaking, seriously, how long until these threads become the places for posting cp?

Now you're really grasping for straws.

>>84628904
This man is either a moron, defiantly fighting a problem that doesn't exist. Which is kind of hilarious.

Or he's a master quality troll artist.

>>84628904
>What this is and is going to continue to be is baseless slanderous shitposts designed to offend and denegrate the fans of comics.
Good, this is 4chan. Everyone ITT, especially (You) and OP, are cocksucking faggot fuckwits.

Shitposting aside, no. This has been a mostly civil thread for discussion about the dip in Marvel's offerings.

I bet you don't even read comics.

>>84628904
How are those bed bugs going for you, Leth?

The garbage of most of their titles aside. There are a few that are decent. Ironically, it's ones more off the beaten path that aren't the big teams or names.

I've liked the new Black Panther so far, Ant-man has been fun.

Is it editorial involvement on the bigger properties preventing writers from having free rein?

>>84628997
>>84628999
>>84629029
You really think this is going to be all sunshine and lollypops on here?
The entire premise of these threads is to post your hate.
That's the ask.

Explain how the fuck that doesn't veer into the same racebaiting shitposts and trolling opinion echochambers that the other threads became.
You already know what picture is going to eventually be posted. You're remembering what one I'm talking about, right now. And you remember what's always written along with it. Every time. You can't say that's not going to happen again, because that was the ask.

>>84629314
Shut up, nigger.

>>84629314
I'm now convinced you're a troll. No one could be this dumb.

You're just not the target demographic anymore, so the stories don't appeal to you

They still dominate the market

>>84629314
There's currently about 20 different posters ITT, and you're the only one talking about racism. Its a very common opinion on this board that Marvel is in a shitty state right now.
You are the one person here trying to ruin our conversation.
And, no. I have no clue what picture you're talking about.

>>84629314
>>84629393
It's already happened.

Jani-sama already mopped it up.

Let us continue our thread in peace.

>>84627664
Early 2000s Marvel was awesome. The best decade of the editorial since the 60s.

>>84629246
I think that's part of the issue. Marvel has reshuffled a lot of their editing staff over the last few years and their direction from above is lacking. Writers given more free rein are getting boom or bust mixed results but it's better than the bland schlock most of the titles that are under stronger editorial control are getting.

>>84629415
Alright. Any predictions for NOW 2.0?
You think they're gonna unfuck themselves or will they double down on their shitty practices?

>>84628554
>implying X-Men wouldn't take Inhuman side
Race traitors, all of them.

>>84627453
>Low talent pool of writers and artists?

This, really.

But they're fine on artists i think, it's mostly writers they're lacking.

>>84629457
>You think they're gonna unfuck themselves
Not likely, but I'm fairly excited for Waid's Avengers. I might even buy some of it.
So, a few noteworthy titles, but mostly bland shit peppered with tweeestz.
>>84629483
Dude, how out of the loop are you?

>>84627664
I have to agree with this. I love classic marvel mostly, early 2000's has its gems too. I'm pretty meh on pre-crisis dc. DC was pretty solid in the 90's and onwards. I've been enjoying dc more than marvel for the last five years or so for the most part. Marvel need more books like vision and ultimates.

This has actually been a pretty decent thread.

Will we ever have a return to long quality runs 30+ issues? The constant new #1's have been a downfall as well. A cheap 90's style gimmick to up short term sales rather than create quality books.

>>84629537
>Will we ever have a return to long quality runs 30+ issues?
No.

I got through event fatigues, but the "No. 1 hahah" really was what stopped me reading regularly.

>>84629504
Yeah, I'd agree with that. Please come back Brubaker.

>>84629246
>Is it editorial involvement on the bigger properties preventing writers from having free rein?

Maybe? I don't think it's anyone being "limited". You can see, for instance, Al Ewing being free to do whatever he wants on both New Avengers and, more importantly, Ultimates. And both are decent series.

It seems more like the editors are *only* playing as the middlemen in the operation and not actually putting their personal stamp on these projects. So, in bigger cases, they ARE reining in the writing somewhat but only to the degree that it doesn't collide with editorial mandate; in smaller cases, there's just nothing at all.

In either cases, it's really just a sink or swim with the creative teams, and with Marvel's lineup as is, it's easy to see that most teams would sink.

Editors need to have good taste and they need to guide the series to being good -- they need to be something like a ghostplotter on weaker books or the first test audience of the book on slightly stronger books. They need to guide these books from being crap.

I know people will say, "But less editing is good!" I disagree. On a monthly (or more frequent) series that is marketed on the fact that it'll be released monthly and on time, editing is a must.

Is Matt Fraction still at Marvel?

>>84629578
>12 issues
>half of those are event tie-ins
What a life.

>>84629615
Can he unfuck Spencer's shit?

>>84629653
>I know people will say, "But less editing is good!" I disagree. On a monthly (or more frequent) series that is marketed on the fact that it'll be released monthly and on time, editing is a must.
Bingo.

>>84629684
Don't think so.

>>84629684
It's just complete bullshit. Put the marketing money into just saying ayy big new creative shift, same great X-Men/Avengers etc.

Let a #1 signify a riskier thing and put more adbux into helping it succeed.

When Cable and Hope returned to the present and Marvel just continued to fuck up everything

>>84627758
Gillen's JiM is peak modern Marvel

>>84629849
>Hope
Haha literally who lmao?!

I miss her, bros.
;_;

Writers wise who has left Marvel since 2010-16?
So far we have:

Ed Brubaker
Matt Fraction
Mark Millar
Joss Whedon (earlier but I'm adding it)

>>84629903
Dan Abnett
Rick Remender

>>84629903
All those people who just signed DC exclusives right before Rebirth like King, Humphries, etc.

>>84629747
He was so underappreciated until Spencer started putting out schlock.

>>84629903
>>84629940
Is Gillen still at Marvel?

Didn't care all that very much for him, but he was far from bad.

>>84629886
girls with scars on their face are sexy
she's probably the most badass forgotten redhead psychic girl

>>84629962
Nope

>>84629962
JiM is Marvel's best modern work

Gillen is now only doing Star Wars stuff but I think he's hinting at taking over a big property, hopefully X-Men or Guardians

>>84629962
Hickman left too. Also Gillen went off to do Star Wars. His secret Wars Siege was essentially a love letter to his marvel work according to him.

I've loved his marvel work since his stint on Journey with Kid Loki. No one should ever doubt his work after reading that.

>>84630004
>>84629975
>>84629999
Gillen's Darth Vader is ending next month.

Ed Brubaker
Matt Fraction
Mark Millar
Joss Whedon (earlier but I'm adding it)
Dan Abnett
Rick Remender
Sam Humphries
>Isn't Tom King still on Vision?

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>>84629958
I just remember my supreme disgust with his (thankfully few) issues on Secret Avengers.
I actually was diggin his Iron Man 2.0 series, and I think the first 3 maybe 4 issues are really cool. I gave him a pass for the Fear Itself shoehorning, but that was one of the most awful books I've not dropped.
>>84629999
>>84630004
>Hickman left too
I loved Secret Warriors, but haven't finished his Avengers. Did not care for FF for whatever reason.

Like I said, I felt Gillen was fine, just didn't click for me.

>>84629966
Indeed.

>>84629903
Kelly Sue Deconnick (for better or worse)
Marguerite Bennett, as far as I know (again, for better or worse)
Jonathan Hickman
Sam Humphries (and Joshua Williamson and Tom King, for the same reason, signing DC exclusives)

>>84630038
>>Isn't Tom King still on Vision?
His scripts are finished

>>84630038
Ed Brubaker
Matt Fraction
Mark Millar
Joss Whedon (earlier but I'm adding it)
Dan Abnett
Rick Remender
Sam Humphries
Jonathan Hickman
Tom King???

Ed Brubaker
Matt Fraction
Mark Millar
Joss Whedon (earlier but I'm adding it)
Dan Abnett
Rick Remender
Sam Humphries
Jonathan Hickman
Tom King
Kelly Sue Deconnick
Marguerite Bennett
Joshua Williamson

This list is getting long as fuck

>>84630025
I'd put money on him writing Nova or Guardians sooner than later
Hopefully Angela or maybe Punisher

>>84630089
Shit. When you look at that list it certainly paints a picture. Not all those writers are top talent but even the less polished ones are capable of putting out decent books.

>>84630227
Well then who's the bad egg that shouldn't be allowed to hold a pen anymore?
There's always one example out there of a worst thing made for each of these folks but who has really wronged the world consistently?

Who is left at Marvel that can even write a good book? Off the top of my head the only ones I'll even bother to look at any more are Ellis, Lemire, Waid, and Spencer - all of whom are currently writing some duds at the moment. I hear Ewing is good, too.

>>84630337
I think you need to re-read that post anon said that all of those writers are capable of putting out decent books or above.

>>84630089
i think the talent leaving is partially due to editors giving newer talent a shot (but also bad because they are also getting shit talent on pander stuff) and the old guard doing more creator stuff

brubaker and fraction basically told all the stories they wanted to tell and are pretty creative heavy now. fraction has his TV dead and brubaker is doing all his crime stuff

millar is done with the big 2 and does his movie stuff. still does creator stuff under icon which is marvel

whedon is gone. only his x-men was liked, runaways was shit

abnett will be back around gotg2 i think on some side book or one-shot

remender gone. humphries/king are dc exclusive now but fuck humphries lel

KSD doing image shit and tv shit with fraction

hickman just took a break from everything he's coming back now with image stuff and will come back to marvel eventually, he said he still had a few stories left or a property he wanted to work on

>>84627758
It was Bendis

>>84630338
>Ellis
he puts out 6 issues a year there. Remember Moon Knight?

>>84628244

What's it like being a special snowflake that can't handle criticism of things that you haven't even created? Or do you write for Marvel?

>>84628731
>spurrier's legion was amazing
Weavers (Boom) and The Spire (Image) were also really really good. His X-Force on the other hand sucked.

>grayson was absolutely based
I couldn't get past the shitty Poser tracing + Photoshop backgrounds.

>johns is off justice league
As much as I hated Darksied War ... Hitch was terrible on JLA and his Rebirth Issue was balls.

>rucka back on WW
I'm salty that he pulled Nicloa along with him and thus delayed Black Magick though. Also: I loved the Rebirth Issue but the ongoing's first issue was decompressed as fuck.

Then there's Green Lanterns which has to be Dogfucker's best book ... ever.

>>84630397
That part's not in dispute, even a stopped clock is right twice a day, but who's worse than the rest? Who should we avoid?

>>84630458
That was 2 hours ago. I think that anon left. The thread actually got decent after that.

>>84627453
I think it was Disney buying them, basically it removed any sort of pressure to keep up sales figures or cohesion. This combined with the success of the MCU really helped to shift the creative focus of the company into the movies and television instead of the comics. I also think the pool for legitimately talented writers is definitely shrinking with the success of Image and all the industry horror stories you hear about Big 2 talent retiring penniless or getting buttfucked by their work-for-hire contract. Writing for Marvel is cool, but some young talented writer would rather be the next Robert Kirkman or Brian K. Vaughn than the next Brian Michael Bendis or Dan Slott. Sure there are people that would want to be the latter, but outside of bottom-feeding and nepotism they're not going to last long or cultivate a fanbase that'll follow and carry their career. I feel like the comic book industry is in a weird transitory period, while the medium will always exist in some form; the business model especially for the larger companies is changing.

>>84630518
Idk. I'd say Brubaker, Fraction, Millar, and Whedon are all top talents. After that it gets more mixed.

I'd guess Sam Humphries, Marguerite Bennett or Josh Williamson. I would have said KSD a year ago because her Captain Marvel was awful but Bitch Planet has been great.

>>84630067
Sam Humphries sucks tho. Didn't he do Arena?

>>84630753
That was Hopeless iirc.

>>84630089
Don't forget. Majorie Lui. She did that x-23 and some other work. It was pretty solid compared to the shit x-23 is going thru now.

>>84630794
I think she's on a Star Wars title so I didn't put her down.

>>84630753
Hopeless did Avengers Arena and Undercover.
Talk about wasted characters.

>>84630810
Yea same goes with Gillen, he's on vader but no marvelU book.

>>84630810
>>84630794
Yeah she's on the new Han Solo

>>84630432
What the fuck happened to Warren Ellis? He was so white hot 10-15 years ago but he just sputtered out. His Moon Knight run is one of the like 4 good things Marvel has done since 2011 though.

>>84630715
I disagree, artistic mediums die out all the time, not recently but throughout history.
How many buildings today have gargoyle reliefs on their ledges? ... outside of Gotham City.
Think about how digital animation has destroyed hand-drawn cell animation.
Comics might exist in some form forever, but print is dead - they said so in Ghostbusters.

>>84630794
All-New Wolverine is fun anon

>>84630924
Maybe he reached into his bag of ideas one day and discovered that it was empty?

>>84630967
But is it comfy?

>>84631026
Not him, but yeah.

>>84630961
That's what I meant though, the model is changing and probably doesn't involve print. Comic's are always going to exist, they've been around for thousands of years since the Adventures of Spearguy and Mammoth Herd were first painted on some cave wall.

>>84631002
That actually wouldn't surprise me, his Indy output was kinda insane considering how many different things he wrote over such a short period of time.

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>>84630715
>it removed any sort of pressure to keep up sales figures
That makes absolutely zero sense given that the prime suspect in the drop in quality has been gimmicks to produce short term sales boosts, though.

The constant churn of #001s and Big Summer Events (with various crossovers and mini events between) means things are constantly getting derailed.

For example: the Magneto solo was really really good and very well liked ... but then The World Ended because Secret Wars and now he's leading Not-X-Force (why the book is titled Uncanny is beyond me) and that's an amazingly shitty way to repay people who were following that title.

Likewise Daredevil is suddenly back in NYC and his identity is a secret (and he's single ... and an ADA?)

And because there's basically little to no significant carryover (certainly nothing you can't just google) I've noticed that most people I know have been much MUCH quicker to jump off of titles rather than give them a chance ... because, seriously, why bother? Even if the ship rights itself it'll just reboot/relaunch with a new team immediately thereafter and it's much easier to just check out the next batch on #001s which creates a feedback loop where the sales spike more from new #001's and then drop off more sharply which leads to the accounting dept wanting MOAR 001s!

Same goes for Big Events: I used to look forward to them but I didn't even give Civil War II a single issue because I still haven't gotten the bad taste of Bendy's Age of Ultron out of my mouth. In fact, come to that, I dropped Sixis after 3 issues and Original Sin after 1 and didn't feel like I missed ANYTHING in any of the titles I was reading at the time.

TL;DR I think that you're *exactly* wrong, anon. This lack of quality is the same thing that happened with Pixar and Cars 2 (and all of the other needless sequels) after they were Moused.

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>Spearguy and Mammoth Herd

>>84630967
>>84631026
>>84631034

(not any anon)
I love laura and all, but for me it's really Old Man Logan that's the only Wolverine book these days.
The moody art and troubled pathos themed writing and even just how Oldie is this lost soul on so many levels reminds me just soo damned much of those '80s Wolverine stories that I first read about him in.
They've really captured the nostalgia lightning in a bottle there. (and that's weird itself because of his whole backstory)

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>>84630753
>Sam Humphries sucks tho.
Yes.

>Didn't he do Arena?
No. He did Starlord (image related); the X-Force run where Fantomx had sex with himself (he was split into three people and he was hooking up with this literal feminine side ... who then cucked him when he tried to get Besty into the threeway. I'm not even making this up); and the the Black Vortex No I'm Totally Not Just Recycling Siege Perilous event.

Inexplicably his Green Lanterns seems to be good so far.

>>84631218
>the X-Force run where Fantomx had sex with himself (he was split into three people and he was hooking up with this literal feminine side ... who then cucked him when he tried to get Besty into the threeway. I'm not even making this up)
That actually made complete sense for Fantomex.

>>84631177
I like both though

You know this thread has been surprisingly successful in civilly discussing the reasons for Marvel's drop in quality.

Also you're all dickgobbling faggots.

>>84631133
I agree with your Mousehate (thank you for that pic), and with your sorta concern about the "starving artist factor", and it's true that the souls have been sucked out of everything that company absorbs.
( I mourned for Star Wars. )
But don't walk away before the people who are and were Marvel leave, while it'll be hard for them to hold on to who they were before the Maus we should give them the benifit of the doubt that their creative spirit will continue to guide them.
The only thing to be really afraid of will be the "new blood"...

>>84631133
I should've specified that I meant long term sales figures, what I meant by that is that it removed the necessity to build up a cohesive universe. They don't need to be sustainable anymore they just need to make money and promote the movies. What you're talking about is a direct consequence of that and I agree with you.You're never going to see a book like X-Factor or Thunderbolts crack 100 issues ever again.

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>>84631313
>you're all dickgobbling faggots

>>84631218
>>84631249
Betsy was with Fantomex.
Fantomex then got split up into three.
Femtomex seduces Betsy.
Fantomex then backstabs Betsy when she tries to steal something to gift to Femtomex.
Fantomex then proceeds to add insult to injury and seduces Femtomex.
Evilmex then tries to seduce Betsy.

The issues in question were actually really good.

I don't think I've read anything other than his Uncanny X-Force, and found it fairly inoffensive, and even good in parts, so I can't speak to Humphries skill or shittiness, but Cable & X-Force was vastly superior.

>>84629966
she is my waifu. I bought her action figure

>>84631419
Gr8 taste m8

>>84631313
>>84631445
I love this place

>>84631362
>The only thing to be really afraid of will be the "new blood"...
I dunno, mugga. Most of what I really like from Marble these days *is* by new blood: Ms Marvel, Vision, Power Man and Iron Fist, All New Wolverine.

I really expected to like ANAD Avengers and it's just sooooo bland.

Black Widow's been good though, so it's not like all of the old guard have lost their mojo; but it really doesn't seem to do writers any favors when they sign those Marvel Exclusive Deals (I'm looking at YOU Soule!)

>>84631313
That's a beautiful and astute observation about the thread, also go fuck yourself and the mailman that impregnated your whore mother instead of your dad.

Someone needs to cross out the characters in OP's pic. Marvel feels far too small now.

>>84631496
>cross out the characters in OP's pic
It's funny you should mention that:

http://io9.gizmodo.com/whats-behind-marvels-campaign-to-remove-the-x-men-from-1707514860

>>84631404
(not that anon)
I disagree about Cable and', that was too far a departure away from the original X-nation hit squad concept. Wolverine calling the shots in one way or another was the only way that worked for me.
Cable was supposed to be retired from black-ops soldiering now that he had an adopted daughter. He's gotta be in his 90s by now, can't we just let the guy settle down?
Plus Cable doing X-Force again feels like retreading.

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>>84631529
>linking to article instead of posting pic
smg senpai.

>>84631482
Dude, I was speaking of the terrifying threat that the mouse will inject it's own "new blood" creative teams into Marvel's healthy host body... and then it spreads...

>>84631571
>Crystal with long hair
when will they bring it back

>>84631591
Long hair isn't practical for superheroics.

>>84631544
>retired
He's M.D. Geist, he can't stop.
>can't we just let the guy settle down?
I thought the book (and years of Cable preceding) was pretty clear at establishing that Cable will stop at nothing to keep Hope safe. He's the eternal soldier.

I just had a whole lot of fun reading the book. Lots of smiles for me.

>>84631603
Oh you.

>>84631404
>The issues in question were actually really good.
I disagree. Not because of what happened but because it came from out of nowhere. The solicited first issue had Puck, Spiral, Storm, and Psylocke and they started to get together ... and then Betsy wandered off for this totally out of the fucking blue side story for several issues. And then the Moon Turned To Blood and the Dead Began To Rise and whathefuckamIevenreading??

Also Bishop and Time Travel Shenanigans.

And THEN when they combined the two books for a crossover to end them both they had them fight Strife (which would have been lame at the best of times) but one of the books (I think Hopless's title but I'm too lazy to look it up) had *literally* just HAD Strife show up like an arc or two before! Grrr.

>>84631606
Your stance on mutant elder abuse unnerves me.

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>>84631571
>>84631591
>>84631603
>>84631529

Marvel Comics worth reading since the 2011 comics boom:
-Venom
-X-Men Legacy
-X-Force [cancelled early]
-Uncanny X-Force
-Vision
-Everything by Ewing [some cancelled early]
-Journey Into Mystery

DC Comics worth reading since the 2011 comics boom:
-Dial H
-Grayson
-Omega Men
-Morrison Action Comics
-Multiversity

>>84631613
>wandered off for this totally out of the fucking blue side story for several issues
You might be misremembering some stuff, but it was told in flashbacks.
And she got abducted by Evilmex, hardly wandering off.

The Cassandra Nova bit was dumb, I'll give you. Mostly because Jean-buffed Bets didn't instagib her decrepit ass.

The Stryfe that showed up earlier in Cable's book, wasn't Stryfe. It was a future Hope, in Stryfe armor and the source of Cable's visions.
>>84631689
Not bad.

>>84631588
>inject it's own "new blood" creative teams into Marvel's healthy host body
It hasn't been healthy for some time, senpai.

And does the Mouse actually do that? Did they replace any big names at Pixar or did they just absorb them into the Hive?

It seems more like they just give top down mandates for things like Cars I and II which were literally fast tracked as projects because they speculated (correctly) that the toys and other merch would sell like crazy.

It's the same way with all the sequels to classic movies (Peter Pan, Lady and the Tramp) that they poop out direct to video: they keep the IP locked up for another 70 years and also give a brief spike in sales of the originals.

It's all about the bottom line and the stockholder's return on investment ( also why Black Widow has yet to have a solo: the movie might do well but they push waaaay more action figures with Tony, Steve, and Thor).

>>84631689
forgot to put that Dial H and Grayson are cancelled early

>>84631715
Dial H was cancelled even earlier

>>84631689
>>84631715
oh and marvel should include superior foes

Rebirth:
>We're sorry for the New 52
>Final Crisis confused everyone and we desperately needed the money
>look here are all your old toys please love us again

Civil War II:
>Who gives a shit
>you faggots will buy anything
>watch the movies goy

>>84631689
>Includes the best of DC, mediocre titles are okay if it's from Marvel.
Also
>Prez
>Martian Manhunter
>WWEO
>Lemire's Green Arrow
>Batman inc

>>84631863
what is mediocre in those marvel titles? and all of those DC ones you listed are mediocre as fuck, although i havent read WWEO so i can't comment on that

>>84631886
>Prez
>Mediocre
It's better than half the Marvel titles you put there.
Stuff like Spurrier's X-men legacy and Remender's Venom shouldn't even belong near stuff like Multiversity, Omega men, Vision or superior foes. It's good fun, but not great or must read. Ewing has written a lot of shit too.

>>84631483

wait... the mailman was suppose to impregnate his dad?

>>84631950
not him, but
>Venom
>not great
nah
>not a must read
perhaps not, but Anon's list said "worth reading", not "have to read"

>>84631950
>he thinks multiversity is a god tier comic
its the worst thing i've listed anon.

X-Men Legacy is, in terms of just writing, the best thing Marvel have put out in years. it has some shitty art but the actual story is something Morrison could only dream of writing

Venom is fucking excellent in every way, it is very rare to read such a tonally unique superhero story.

>Vision

Ok, guys. Finally falling for this meme.

It better be good.

>>84632044
it is very good, omega men is a bit better though (and also finished)

>>84632007
>Multiversity is the worst thing I've listed
So you just have shit taste, anon. Pax Americana, Thunder world and Ultra comics are also better than anything Marvel has put out.

Vision is memender telling the same story he tell with his every Image titles, just not as good.

>>84632064
>memender
You wut?

>>84632064
>Vision is memender telling the same story he tell with his every Image titles, just not as good.
holy shit do you have any self-awareness?

Multiversity is just a twist on the same fucking story as Zenith Phase 3, a story Morrison wrote 30 years ago and has been recycling ever since.

>Pax Americana
terrible
>Thunder World
good
>Ultra Comics
gimmicky shit

the only reason I included Multiversity was for the issues with something worthwhile in them like The Just or Mastermen.

Venom might have some Remenderisms in it like the daddy issues, but Remender will never top Grant Morrison when it comes to writing stories so similar they're indistinguishable.

>>84632064
Wait, Remender didn't write Vision.

You seem to have outed yourself as a shitposter that isn't reading what he's discussing.

>>84631640
Is Maria hill in there twice?

>>84632170
Obviously I meant Venom, not Vision.

>>84632184
You probably think of other with blue energy hands? That's Quake.

>>84632187
Obviously it wasn't obvious.

>>84632201
I mentioned Vision as great over here>>84631950
. Why would I shit on it?

>>84632200
Oh, It didn't even look like her hands

>>84632149
Multiversity has the same themes and shit, but it's not the exact thing.

>>84632226
i could say the same about Venom and I would be more accurate because Venom has less in common with stuff like Fear Agent than Multiversity has in common with Zenith III

>>84629314
Are you the same anon from that stupid Iceman thread from the other day? The one that had some paranoid nervous breakdown about some active /pol/ conspiracy to ruin comics?

>>84629940
>>84630038
Remender didn't left, he was fired (and for good reason, rape scenes should be avoided entirely now that we have entered a new era in the sequential storytelling medium)

>>84627453
>When and why did Marvel have such a drop off in quality?
Mid-nineties. There's been some good stuff since then but they're more the exception than the rule.

>Is it because they've replaced so many established characters with legacy characters?
>Is it a lack of caring by Disney?
No, it's just shitty management at Marvel.

Was there ever a point in /co/'s history where Marvel was loved and DC viewed as shit or where both were equally liked or viewed as shit?

>>84631640
What happened to Ghost Rider, Skaar, A-Bomb and the Lizard?

>>84631689
>shilling for Kekwing
Nice try /co/mblr

>>84632234
Except Multiversity one shots have shown a range of different sub genres, with a loosely connecting theme.

>>84632580
Blaze was in Red Thunderbolts. A-Bomb depowered and became hacker. Skaar is also depoweres. Lizard showed up in ASM, clone guy having his family or something. Or I mix up something about Lizard.

>>84632604
so did seven soldiers and the different arcs of doom patrol

With the emergence of third wave feminism and Social justice fags.

>>84632580

We should be seeing Skaar again in that 'The Fallen' 1 shot Pak is writing about Banner's funeral. I wonder if he got repowered up after the universe reset. I hope so, cause unlike the other copy Hulks, he inherited his power.

>>84629849

This. Second Coming was the beggining of the end. Schism tore everything apart.

AvX sealed the fucking deal.

Artists are mostly ok. Writers are the problem, mainly giving so much control to Slott and Bendis.

I think it's due to poor editors: for example, slott's ideas are good for most of the part, but their execution is atrocius; with a good editor, you have someone who could say"no, if you doing this likke that it's stupid change it", and make a better comic.

I noticed the editing fell through around Civil War, but it's likely things were coming apart before that.

The new Avengers stuff was weak. The X-men stuff of the early 00s was okay, but something felt different from the old days. The Ultimate universe wasn't bad, but writers kept borrowing from the 616 stuff or confusing the two instead of really capitalizing on a brand new universe.

Then Civil War sold a lot and nothing mattered. It was all about setting up for the next event and how things Would Never Be The Same. Then they did the Heroic Age stuff in an effort to reel back some of that but it was too late. More events, more crises, less understanding of continuity, but none of the balls to reboot or push their new characters from the Initiative or anything recent.

When Bendis started writing all of their major titles. Not only does he fail miserably at characterization, but everyone he writes has the same speech pattern due to Bendis Speak, which just compounds every problem with his writing.

And he has a huge boner for crossovers. Something he also isn't even a little good at.

>>84632994
Not only that but the editors don't step in when he fucking self-inserts his own daughter into the comics...

>>84633015
Why would they? Creators name/base characters on people they know all the time.

>>84633038
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't his daughter a little kid?

>>84631689
aaand the thread will go to shit from now on. Thanks modern marvel fan.

You can always tell someone is new to comics when they think Marvel being awful as a company is some kind of recent trend.

>>84633147
It started with the 1980s that were mostly dull outside of some gems IMO. I just want fans to catch on to Marvel's thing of pissing them off with gimmicks for a sales boost for a #1 or the 90s-esque cliches of a thousand variant covers and flooding the market with books, relaunches, and events would end. If people wise up then they'd have no choice to either improve their brand as a whole or die as a comic publisher.

Marvel was at it's best when X-men and Spider-Man was their flagships. Since the movies made the Quippy Avengers the most popular, the comics have followed suit.

>>84627453
Literally always. You just didn't know before because you only recently started seeing "epic" bad pages posted on your "epic" social media because "epic" cape movies are trendy.

>>84633761
>Implying pre-90s Marvel was bad