>A medium where anything is possible. Ideal for fantasy, horror,

Americans are stupid and cancerous, that's why.

>>84510227
They're a bunch of weaboos

> ideal for horror or thriller

No anon. Just no

>>84510313
>implying he's wrong
Oh, you're one of those "I CAN'T RELATE TO DRAWINGS" faggots.

>>84510227
Because you have an fanatical sense of how things should be without doing anything to achieve it.

>>84510227
Still images aren't "ideal" for horror or thriller.

Just because you can design any kind of monster you want with no budget limitations doesn't mean it can provoke real fear in the viewer.

>>84510398
You realize not everything needs to be made on a $300 million budget just because that's what the big studios do on average for animation, right? Also, Indie studios exist for a reason. Currently the best place for animation in America is the indie/student shorts scene.

>>84510420
Big Studio =/= Bad

>>84510407
You're an idiot
>can craft any kind of atmosphere you want, without it feeling silly like it happens with live-action
>better for surreal horror
>seriously implying live-action garbage is capable of provoking real fear in anyone

Mike Mignola's and Ben Templesmith's art is far more capable of having an unsettling feeling horror should have than any piece of shit movie Hollywood and indie studios shit out these days.

>>84510227
I don't think there is really a big market for that anywhere in the world. Isn't it obvious they would choose to do what is more profitable?

It doesnt cost as much money, in an industry that puts profit before making "art" its a deciding factor.

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>>84510227
Honestly, I enjoy "Kiddie Shit" because it tends to be less formulaic and more nuanced than adult films. Like, kid's movies are still trying to tech them something, while your average movie mostly just aims for spectacle.

>>84510431
Oversaturation = Bad. When the big studios are all doing the same thing and controlling the face of the medium to the point where it turns into a genre, it becomes tiresome. That doesn't mean the individual product is bad, something like Zootopia is quite good. But the scene as a whole is a fucking joke when you're forced to line up things like Zootopia and Kubo next to the likes of Norm of the North, Rock Dog, Angry Birds, Ratchet and Clank, Secret Life of Pets, Trolls, and Sing because that's the majority of its competition.

>>84510227
Who knows what would happen if we never got Comics Code.

>limited to kiddie shit
>kiddie shit
>Look at me, I'm le mature and solphostifisticated adult! I only partake in things for mature and deep people like me! Can't you see how mature I am? Wow you must be like a kid or something if you don't like what I don't like! Look, like even include a picture of an old French cartoon to drive my point home!

Make a difference, you nigger. Half the reason cartoons are seen as "kiddie shit" is because absolute mega niggers like you refuse to see them as more than entertainment for kids, so animators don't try to be anything more than that. The people who make "adult" cartoons are just retards with horrible sense of humor. If you want to make "art" make it yourself. Don't whine that other people aren't catering to you, especially if you're not making anything.

>inb4 b-b-but muh big bad american entertainment industry! they'd never let Fantastic Planet be made in America!
>literally asking "what is this, 'independent production' you speak of?"
Things always have to be proven on their own before American investors take notice of something, it's always been like that.

I hope someone subjects you to watching hours upon hours of so called "kiddie shit", Clockwork Orange style.

>>84510467
Alan Moore would be living in isolation as a hermit.

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>>84510463
I love kiddie shit but as I get older, I wish animation had a little more maturity to it. Roger Rabbit was one of my absolute favorite movies as a kid because it featured funny cartoon characters I understood but still had some detective mystery to it (And as a kid, you don't really like noir, so this was the first time I was able to understand why noir was interesting). It's a very specific movie and the wacky vs grit contrast only really works for this movie and this movie alone, but it feels like Roger Rabbit would have NEVER been made today because parents might bitch about an animated movie for kids where there was drinking and cursing involved. In fact, I'm fucking shocked something like Rango got made (That movie also become one of my favorites).

I dunno, like, I thought Finding Dory was adorable and sweet but I don't want everything to be light-hearted fluff. Sometimes it would be nice to get something like Iron Giant that takes place during the Cold War. I'm not asking for adult political dramas, but the heavy censorship of "W-we can't mention war or have a character saying 'damn' or a villain who is an alcoholic cause we gotta protect kids from things they probably see and here everyday regardless!!" is kind of dumb. That's part of why I don't like Kung Fu Panda 3, because the second movie began with a dramatic backstory about the genocide of all pandas, fucking intense, but then by the end of that movie just totally does a u-turn and goes, "eh they're all alive" and the third movie is them all bouncing around like fucking beach balls and stuffing their fat faces as if they don't remember the atrocities that happened to them and their families like 20 years ago.

I don't know if censorship is the right word or not, but it definitely feels like it.

>>84510496
>I want to be part of the discussion but I don't understand the topic so I'm just going to say nigger a bunch of times to get a bunch of (you)'s.

If you'd like another (you), please respond to this post and I'd be happy to throw you a couple more. I know it's probably the only way for your dick to get erect now-a-days.

>>84510338
No anon. I'm just someone who isn't an autist and understands it's not even close to be a decent medium for thriller or horror.

You can't even name the top 5 of each category without using google

>>84510571
>the only way for your dick to get erect
How'd you know?

>saying something twice is "a bunch"

>implying OP isn't putting down western animation for being too simple and childish
>implying that's literally not what he's complaining about
My point still stands. If OP thinks that western animation as a whole is made for kids, without any mature subtleties or genre range, he should do something about it, or at the very least, he should try and find animation that fits what he's looking for.

Or maybe you're talking about what >>84510557 mentioned, in which case I'd have to argue that I'm not clairvoyant and I didn't know this is what OP was talking about in the OP, cause you know, all he said was western animation is "kiddie shit".

>>84510644
No, you're just a complete idiot.
>it's not a good medium for horror, because I said so
>You le autist
>not many people try it, so it's inferior
Quality arguments.

>>84510571
So you're gonna jerk him off?

>>84510227
Well if my grand parents are any indication it's because they feel the medium in general was created solely for children and with a handful of exceptions this was the prevailing theory for many of the baby boomer's children which are currently running things these days

but they are old and dying, and people who know the capabilities of the medium are starting to step up

>>84510682
Still looking up that top 5? My statement stands as valid and I still stand correct

It is suspicious how there are no photographs of time before 1826

>>84510730
>2+2 = 5
>where's your calculator? If you don't have one, my statement is valid and I stand correct
Just shut up or come up with good arguments.

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>>84510682
Horror is really difficult to pull off in animation, because it's the medium is so abstract; even amongst anime, I cannot name single piece of animation that genuinely frightened me. No reason that Thriller doesn't work, though; there are innumerable well composed animated thrillers released every season. Monster, for example, works extremely well as a thriller, but as a horror, I can't say that I was particularly scared.

For horror:
Literature > Live Action > Video Games > Animation

>>84510313
>>84510407
>I'm a pleb with no imagination
The animated segments of a Pink Floyd clip are infinitely more atmospheric and terrifying than almost any horror movie
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJUuDoRZpyU

>>84510781
This doesn't make any sense at all ABSTRACT WOULD BE BETTER FOR HORROR

Why do you think horror novels work so well? Do you need shitty cgi and bad makeup to get scared?

>>84510783
I didn't think it was terrifying. It was definitely atmospheric though.
Terrifying, not so much. It was a good visual experience, but I'm not sure I'd be happy for a full movie made up of those types of scenes. Works well as a music video though.
But honestly, if you thought that was terrifying, I'd wonder how you'd react to the equivalent of an animated Exorcist.

>>84510755
According to Professor Kyle Brofloski of Devry Institute there is no proof aliens didn't invent time.

>>84510808
>he thinks the exorcist is scary

The makeup is laughable shit. In fact it being animated would be far better.

>>84510781
They seem to have some animated horror fixation, they're shooting down every reply that says otherwise

>>84510781
The first season of Yami Shibai was genuinely frightening.
Monster is juvenile garbage on par with an average Stephen King novel and with awful pacing. .

>Literature
Mostly boring and/or relaxing to be honest.
>Live Action
Overrated. It has slightly more gems than animation and most of those gems are not even scary. Only Inland Empire and Eraserhead come to mind as examples of horror movies that are still capable of instilling some semblance of fear.
>Video games
Now that is the single worst medium for horror. Vidya horror is some of the worst I have ever seen.

>>84510850
What a pointless comment. Either add a real argument or fuck off.

>>84510808
Exorcist is not really scary. It's like The Shining. Good movie but you have to forget it's "horror" or you'll end up being disappointed.

>>84510800
Abstract in the sense that it doesn't resemble reality. A frightening piece of animation would rely upon the fear that a cartoon will try to kill you. Comparatively, it's far easier to imagine Freddy Krueger lying under your bed.

>Why do you think horror novels work so well
No potential for a special effects failure to limit immersion (which is the default for animation because it does not look real) combined with the ability to get into the psyche of a protagonist (which is why Lovecraftian horror, with its focus on a gradual descent into madness, is almost completely limited to literature). You can imagine something in a horror novel to be as horrific as your mind will allow.

>>84510448
This

>>84510227
It's an art medium

Who will pay for it? That is the question for literally all art

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>>84510227
>Limited to kiddie shit
Animation is a pain in the ass, and expensive both financially and on man-hours.

So of course when it's utilized, they try to make whatever is the most marketable from it.

Even Japanese anime bows to the market forces that impel it to become the same old unimaginative tropes.

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>>84510882
You've just become a lot like the people who can't find anything erotic without gaping pussy.
You've become jaded and desensitized to horror that isn't piles of viscera.

>>84510886
Why does horror need to resemble reality? Is slasher garbage really 'scary' to you? What about atmosphere or disturbing imagery?

>>84510819
>>84510882
It's scarier than The Wall.

>>84510910
>desensitized to horror that isn't piles of viscera.
False assumptions. Gore is the most boring thing about horrorshit, unless it's done in a way that is completely outlandish and unearthly like in Hannibal, and horror does get to me. Hell, I think some of Twilight Zone still holds up better than most horror movies.

>>84510942
>YOUR MOTHER SUCKS COCKS IN HELL

It really isn't. It might have been novel at the time but the film does not hold up.

>>84510313
Horror doesn't work as well as it does in live action if you ask me, but there's nothing about thrillers that doesn't work in animation.

If the people OP's talking about were weeaboos then they'd be taking cues from anime, not American animation.

>>84510892
Yes anime has its staple genres and popular conventions like anything else, but every season there's all kinds of different stuff. Like planetarian and 91 Days this season.

>>84510644
You could say the same about movies or literature.

>>84510991
If we can be fooled by crappy makeup we can find animation to be scary as well.

No one actually thinks their life is in fucking danger when Jason slashes somebody, it's all about atmosphere and imagery.

>>84510886
And Lovecraftian horror is also never pulled off well
Probably the most underwhelming genre of horror to be found in literature.

>>84510991
>Yes anime has its staple genres and popular conventions like anything else, but every season there's all kinds of different stuff.

Keep in mind that Japan's animation is offset by their fairly crummy live action movie production.

I always thought animation didn't work well for horror because of how it feels more detached from reality.

>>84511101
It's a bunch of actors on a screen in makeup

>>84510436
>Mignola
Has he ever worked on an actual horror comic?
That would've been cool.
Hellboy/BPRD is more of folklore fiction with horror elements.

>>84510501
Or he'd keep publishing Tom Strong and Top Ten and every writer would call him idea-stealing hack?

>>84511101
And that's why horror is one of the most subjective genres.
I personally can't take something involving real things like serial killers seriously, but something surreal like OP's pic makes me feel uneasy.

>>84511119
That's probably why it works better. More familiar.

I really hate this manchild cartoon defense that "it actually does it BETTER than adult films!"

No it doesn't. No, Bugs Life is not Seven Samurai.

No, Lion King is not Hamlet.

>>84511182
Good bait

>>84511152
Where do you live that people in crappy makeup are familiar to you? The circus?

>>84511182
>I have no arguments, so here's my butthurt and false equivalences
You're the manchild here. Fuck off.

I guess you could say that we live on a "Fantastic Planet"

>>84511192
>bait

So, Bugs Life IS Seven Samurai, and Lion King IS Hamlet?

>>84511195
>false equivalences

Clearly you've not seen much discussion about animated films on this board, or in general.

Don't act like the medium can't have it all.
Have your cake and eat it my boy.

Go get your nephew a copy of the new comic about ponies or Ninjago or even an old Adventure of Tintin book.
And you get yourself a comic about a time traveling cook murdering and cooking dinosaurs, or a horror comic like Clean Room, or a Flintstones reimagined book that is ACTUALLY GOOD.

Have your own cake and eat it dude.
Have 25 of you own cakes and eat 30 for all I care.
There's variety in them thar hills.

>>84510407
You have to admit, the ease of comic art vs movie special effects is a strong lead for comics.

I mean just look at almost any story from 90s hellraiser comics and you'd agree it'd be super hard to pull off live action CGI or not.

>>84510644
When done intelligently and with as much production time as needed, animation can be exponentially cheaper than any live-action sci-fi or horror film. Unfortunately, because CG has supplanted hand-drawn animation, a lot of people don't see that.

Compare Bakshi's Lord of the Rings to Peter Jackson's. Notice one is insanely cheap.

>>84510853
You clearly haven't played many horror games.

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>>84510853
>Now that is the single worst medium for horror. Vidya horror is some of the worst I have ever seen.
That fact that this exists shows not only how wrong you are but how little educated you are in the matter.

>>84511317
>exponentially

I have a feeling you don't actually know what that word means.

>>84511637
I did. They were boring shit. With the same shitty attempts at atmosphere.
>>84511653
If this trash is good horror for you, I can only pity you. I bet you think Alien Isolation is good too.

>>84510652
>>84510496
>If you don't like it do something about it!
Is one of the worst arguments to ever throw into a discussion. Almost as bad as,
>Oh yeah? If you think it's bad, I'd like to see you do better!

Not everyone who has a discussion has the intent to drastically change Hollywood or some shit.

>>84511679
Oh you're just a shit poster. Sorry, I thought a guy with so many replies was actually just retarded. Nice to know you don't genuinely think this way though and just want some you's.

>>84511654
I'm terrible at math, but if Steamboy for example cost $20 million to make then wouldn't a live action movie costing $200 million be exponentially more expensive (if they made it in live action it probably would cost something like that)?

>>84511703
>if you disagree with me, you're a shitposter
What a shitty tactic. God forbid someone doesn't find your shitty overrated game scary.

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>implying the same isn't true of live action film
>it's surprising that people like simple stories with simple moral choices
>it's surprising that people pay money to be entertained
>it's surprising that others who want to make money follow their lead
>implying there aren't a million indie comics and animations about fantasy, horror, adventure, psychological thrillers

>>84510227
Could be worse. Anime's turning into the same regurgitated haremshit, moeshit, and mecha shit.

I feel like a disproportionate amount of all anime that's come out recently can be described as "take something that normally doesn't involve girls and add girls".

>>84511735
Live action films are rarely made for children, and adult animation is significant in Japan. So your explanation doesn't work.

>>84511768
>Anime's turning into the same regurgitated haremshit, moeshit, and mecha shit.
It isn't.

I wish people would actually watch anime instead of just repeating received wisdom about it (received from people who also don't watch it).

Animation is good for two things - being brightly whimsical and showing things that would be logistically inconvenient to show.

Animating emotions well is just not cost-effective. But showing children without need to coordinate child actors or making comedies is what animation is good for.

>>84511838
>Animation is good for two things - being brightly whimsical and showing things that would be logistically inconvenient to show.
You can use animation for anything, even realism.

>Animating emotions well is just not cost-effective.
There's nothing difficult or expensive about it.

>>84511806
>So your explanation doesn't work
What you're complaining about is a problem of consumer perception, not one of a surplus or lack of particular media. If you actually look for comics and cartoon that match your criteria you'd find them. Those things exist, they're just not all that popular, and they're not popular because most people are fucking plebs.

>>84511876
Using animation for realism is like sweeping floor with toothbrush. You can do it, you can even do it well, but if you used mop instead you would have the same result with less hassle or better result with the same hassle.

Actually there is one other thing animation is good it. Bringing down standards for special effects. Animated things don't need to blend with actual humans if humans are also animated.

So it could be used for action, but not very emotional.

>>Animating emotions well is just not cost-effective.
>There's nothing difficult or expensive about it.
There is. Good emoting requires subtlety. Very detailed animation with lots of frames.

>>84511683
I also want to see animation be used in a more versatile way. Fuck, what I'd give to see the things OP wants, but unlike OP, I don't complain about something without presenting some solution, no matter how bad it might be.
I'm sorry that you want other people to do things that satisfy your needs or wants. Sometimes, that happens and when it does, you should be glad. When it doesn't happen, you can just hope that content creators make more of what you want. Complaining about it on a nameless oriental Asian robot cartoon website won't change shit.

As much as I hate the phrase, you're starting to sound like a self entitled prick. The world doesn't owe you entertainment.

>>84511876
>literally video taping people and hand drawing them at a lower framerate
>not difficult, expensive, counterproductive and pointless
You don't know what you're talking about. Stop.

>>84511878
What animation has been made in America or the West that's fantasy, horror, adventure or a psychological thriller and not for children? You're making it sound like it just grows on trees.

>>84511923
But modern day CG has allowed for as many subtle facial ticks and acting bits as live action.

>>84511976
It usually uses real actors and motion capture. Why not just use live-action? Why not cut the middle man?

In videogames you can't obviously. But in linear narrative?

>>84511941
There's not much in terms of animation, probably because of consumer perception and how poorly adult animation did in the 70's, when it was still a thing.

The comics industry ABOUNDS with adult themes, but I guess you don't care about that.

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>>84510227
>adult cartoons only exist as an industry in one country
>this is obviously America's fault

>>84511988
You're wrong though. Unless it's SFX, the animators use video reference but otherwise are still doing it themselves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZdCRyFMz_Q

Despite being a cartoon movie, there is nothing cartoonish about Riley's crying.

>>84511923
Animation lets the artists have easy, absolute control over everything that's on the screen, and doing something like setting the story in 19th century London isn't any more difficult than setting it in today's London, and you don't have problems like sets looking fake. Animation also allows the characters to be "themselves." They aren't played by actors, they just are. In a way they seem more real than characters played by actors. So animation has advantages over live action even in realistic productions.

>Good emoting requires subtlety. Very detailed animation with lots of frames.
Anime has a lot of emoting in it and doesn't have to use tons of frames for it. The classical Disney way of thinking suggests you need to be up to your eyeballs in frames if you want to do anything, but that's just not true.

>>84511937
I didn't say anything about rotoscoping, and I don't even consider it real animation.

>>84511923
Who cares about emotions?
Definitely not horror movie directors, or they wouldn't hire all those talentless excuses for actors.

>>84511712
On a very basic level, yes. Just thought I'd check since a lot of people use that term without understanding what exponential growth/decay is.

>>84512017
But it literally is. In fact, Walt Disney can be the sole person to blame for animation being put into a "family friend ghetto". Warner Brothers used to do looney cartoons for adults, hence why there was quite a bit of war propoganda and racist caricatures.

>>84510781
You don't like akira? How about David Firth stuff, that stuff makes my skin crawl

Wait are people saying animated horror can't be scary?

Some parts of Lain and Texhnolyze were pretty creepy.
I don't imagine the alien scene work in live-action without it being silly.

>>84511050
Thats cause you can never do lovecrafts style as anything visual. Because he describes stuff like
> it wasn't like _ it wasn't _ it was something completely different and unfathomable.
When you describe something as indescribable you can't do a proper visual yelling of it cause it loses the impact of imagination trying to stretch beyond it's limits

>>84510227
>Western animation is so influential
I think you mean that Americans have money so they actually produce media, while the rest of the world translates and consumes that media since they largely lack media of similar quality.

It's hilarious how wrong this was in 60's and 70's when Tezuka spurred an explosion of cheap, trash-tier television animation in the United States to mirror low production costs and toy tie-ins in Japan. Japanese adult animation grew out of the same roots, but couldn't be largely commercialized even in Japan, where you falsely presume that anime isn't considered for children and otaku.

>>84512050
>Walt Disney
Disney was influential in the form of animation, but he could rarely be competed with ironically because of the HIGH quality of his works, which even from the start deal with some adult themes (though hardly very dramatic).

I think another problem with your argument is that you think drama and mature, gritty stories are somehow more conducive to animation rather than less, which I think is just ridiculously false.

>>84512050
Honestly how much of a difference does it make that a cartoon had war propaganda or racist caricatures in it? It doesn't make it fundamentally different from a cartoon that didn't have them.

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>videogames are basically just intreractable cartoons
>you could just type in all videogame cuts cents for any number of games and you basically get an animated movie
>hell, metal gear is basically a movie series
>some games are little more than intractable animated movies like the walking dead
>videogames have been doing exceedingly more thematically interesting stuff visually and writing wise than actual animation studios, to the point where even a generic scifi shooter has more going for it than the entire animation industry
>it's way more profitable, to the point where one man indie teams can make a living off it and basically have the same kind of fan base as an animated show with a gorillion dollars per episode, instead of zero dollars and lots of free time for one good game
>even on a professional level it'sore fulfilling to work at a videogame studio as a code monkey or as a modeler making some crazy ass monsters and guns and shit that is actually directed at adults and young adults instead of some soulless trite made for children
>heck even the shit made for children is better in games than it is for movies

For fuck's sake, cup head is coming out snd that's basically the closest thing to a new 2d popeye cartoon we've had in years.

I think animation in the form of linear narratives is just kinda outdated and frankly irrelevant. Why waste time making a bare hint of a new imaginative world that will end in an hour and render your work limited and finite, when you can actually literally make a world of animation with replay ability that will give players more bang for their buck and give your animation efforts more actual use for the effort it took to make it?

Face it, cartoons as they were in the golden age are done. Go play some good fucking videogames with good stories and animation actuslly aimed at an adult audience and don't look back at how you used to scrape at the bottom of the barrel worshiping kid shit.

>>84511806
>It isn't.
Not ALL of it obviously. Attack on Titan is great. But all the good stuff is drowning in garbage these days

>>84511721
>>84511679
Just came to call you a faggot. If you think SH2 isn't good, you're just being a complete contrarian.
I bet you think SH is also shit, faggot.

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>>84512050
>looney cartoons for adults, hence why there was quite a bit of war propoganda and racist caricatures
Are you implying that propaganda and racist caricatures weren't aimed at children as well?

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>>84512165
>AoT is great
b8

>>84512165
>Not ALL of it obviously. Attack on Titan is great
I'm leaving this thread.

>>84512185
>le contrarian meme
SH games are an amateur's understanding of horror. Their atmosphere is terrible, the monster designs are straight-up laughable, the symbolism is unsubtle and amateurs and the soundtrack is shit.
If that's your idea of good horror, I hope you never get to do anything with the genre.
Take off your nostalgia goggles, vidyababby.
>>84512165
>Attack on Titan is great.
Here's your (you)

>>84512293
>Their atmosphere is terrible
(You)

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>>84512161

https://youtu.be/21s45Yel5VM
https://youtu.be/P99qJGrPNLs
https://youtu.be/Kq5KWLqUewc
https://youtu.be/Rfn4UBmhfAM
https://youtu.be/KSZ4tSoumNk
https://youtu.be/TdpqV7RPnTE
https://youtu.be/4lmEqpgg3B4
https://youtu.be/BCr7y4SLhck

>you will never go into a theatre and see this kind of stuff as upcoming trailers for a animated movies

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>a board with lots of drawfags and writefags with endless opinions on what's good and bad
>could easily draw and share, commercialize their own comics and cartoons
>use it instead to repost memes and lewd drawings and occasionally produce low quality pornography
Fucking Americans ruined /co/, am I right?

>>84512142
TV animation in the US predates anime, so how was Tezuka responsible for anything? The Flintstones for example came out years before Astro Boy.

Even if they did rush to take inspiration from Astro Boy, they clearly learned the wrong lessons.

>Japanese adult animation grew out of the same roots, but couldn't be largely commercialized even in Japan, where you falsely presume that anime isn't considered for children and otaku.
There's been non-children's TV and theatrical anime since the 70s (before the otaku market even existed), although the line between children's and non-children's anime can be blurry. I doubt Aim for the Ace and Castle of Cagliostro were made for children. Gundam was, but it only became (eventually) a hit because of the older fans.

If animation really was seen as nothing but children's entertainment in Japan, then anime as we know it wouldn't exist. Otaku as we know them wouldn't exist. The reason why something like 91 Days is on TV now is because there's a critical mass of people on both the production and consumer ends who think animation isn't just for children. It really isn't true that anime is considered only for children and otaku in Japan.

>>84512293
Eternal darkness uses video games to exploit horror very well. It can really fuck with you

>>84511192
No but real human beings are more familiar to me than drawings.

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>>84512352
>that warcraft one
>we could have easily had an animated war craft movie that looked amazing
>instead we got some ugly garrish shit with fuckers in suits mixed with cgi blobs that did not mix well at all

>meanwhile they're pumping out overwatch animations left and right that look like fucking generic dreck and people are eating it the fuck up even though tf2 did it better years ago
>people still think animation can only be for kids when those funny ass meet the team shorts exist and blizzard made THIS IN FUCKING 200 FUCKING 4

https://youtu.be/uq21NRapRdQ

>>84512161
Video games and movies/shows are different things and neither of them is a replacement for the other.

>>84512165
>But all the good stuff is drowning in garbage these days
According to people who don't even watch anime. Which was my point. This is just the blind leading the blind. That you mentioned Attack on Titan tells me immediately that you don't watch anime either (yes, you watch SOME anime, but I'm talking about watching many shows a season and being aware of everything that's airing, which is something that very few people do).

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>>84512372
>they clearly learned the wrong lessons
The lesson was how to make a shit ton of money.

>It really isn't true that anime is considered only for children and otaku in Japan.
This is how I know you've never lived in Japan. This is the number fucking one thing weebshitters on the internet get wrong about Japan. NO ONE above the age of 12 watches anime or mechashit and admits it. Teenagers watch J-dramas and virtually ALL anime is otakushit to them. Studio Ghibli is more of a household name in the fucking United States than in Japan.

Manga can be adult, but anime is something you watch in secret. The reason Nips have dramatic anime is because they found a niche market and capitalized on it, which doesn't mean it's mainstream because it's not.

>>84512431
holy shit get your head out of your own ass

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What could have been

https://youtu.be/cFdDle4BzRM

91 days seems like one of those anime that doesn't do very well in Japan. Seems like a risky production. I haven't seen it yet but it doesn't seem to be a typical shounen or otaku anime so I wonder how the TV ratings and blu ray sales will go.

>>84512374
To be completely honest, the only game that ever managed to fuck with me is Pathologic by Ice-Pick Lodge.
I was never impressed with horror games in general.

>>84512372
Japs have been reading adult cartoons since right after the war when no one had fucking TVs or movie theaters and it was a cheap, fun version of paperback garbage books. They've been primed to accept animation as a mature art form unlike the United States where it never had a chance because no one every bombed our fucking movie theaters into oblivion and by the 60's we all had TV's and could watch live action shows.

>>84512507
adult comics*

>>84512491
Why didn't it fly?
Horror casuals eat up zombieshit like there's no tomorrow.

>>84512431
oh do enlighten me on the current glory days of anime /a/ is trash and has trash taste

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>>84512506
Maher nigga. I think games with horror elements are way more effective than flat out horror games. Shit like subnautica is nightmare fuel for anyone with a fear of the deep sea and leviathans.

That said
>mfw playing PT in the dark

>>84512569
>with a fear of the deep sea and leviathans
please stop

>>84510463
>"Kiddie Shit" [...] tends to be less formulaic and more nuanced than adult films
I've rarely read something this wrong.

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>>84512569
DON'T
TOUCH
THAT
DIAL
NOW

WE'RE
JUST
GETTING
STARTED
T
A
R
T
E
D

>>84512590
The big reveal is still probably the most frightened I've ever been in my life.

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>>84512524
Lack of funding because they thought nobody would see it.

Keep in mind this came out just a few years before the walking dead game came out and sold gangbusters, and before the last of us came out and did even more gangbusters, with both starring an older man protecting a young girl in the zombie apocalypse

There's no fucking reason at this point for there not to be a shit ton of adult animated movies when adult videogames are selling like fucking fire.

>>84512642
I thought zombies were popular even before TWD much to my chagrin. I would fuck a goat to have a classical voodoo zombie movie, rather than another post-apocalyptic movie about flesh-eating corpses infestation

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FUCKING WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEN.

I can't believe Sausage Party is going to be the contender for "R-rated animated film" and not fucking this.

https://youtu.be/BtLBAvxtmD0

Wow uh
You know as someone who hasn't really touched a videogame since the Nintendo 64 it's kind of amazing to see this after a quick "horror game" search on youtube.

Are animated shows and features really this far behind in terms of what people are making?

How did comics and video games get out of the "It's for kids!" stigma but not animation? Telltale's Walking Dead has shitty CG cartoon graphics yet for some reason is able to hook in an older audience much easier. Why? It can't solely be attested to gameplay because comics don't have that element, yet people make the joke of "Ha-ha grown man reading comics nerd" all the time.

>>84512767
Man you're lucky I like Gigershit because that's literally what that is.

>>84510420
Fantastic to hear. Now you just need to get one of them to make a horror cartoon series- or simply make one yourself- and market and distribute it en masse.

Not going to? Then fuck off.

>>84510227
I was told its because Japan had a tough time getting a decent movie industry set up back in the day, so they turned to making animated films and cartoons instead.
Western countries already get all their "serious" entertainment from live action, cartoons are scraps they throw to kids.

>>84512418
I didn't realize it before, but it sure is strange that game studios are making animation like this for very popular games, and at the same time all animation running in cinemas and on TV is for kids/families.

>>84512442
>The lesson was how to make a shit ton of money.
Astro Boy innovated the animation, filmmaking, storytelling and production techniques of anime. And the monetization techniques. And if we assume American TV animation is drawing from the same well as anime then something really went wrong for them.

>This is how I know you've never lived in Japan.
I don't have to live in Japan or even visit Japan. It's not the 20th or 19th century anymore.

>NO ONE above the age of 12 watches anime or mechashit and admits it.
>Studio Ghibli is more of a household name in the fucking United States than in Japan.
Only Yesterday was the #1 domestic film in 1991. Princess Mononoke became the #1 movie of all time in Japan and won a Japanese Academy award for best movie. After Titanic took the #1 spot, Ghibli reclaimed it with Spirited Away which still remains the #1 movie of all time in Japan and likewise won an award for best movie. The Wind Rises was the #1 movie in 2013. The Boy and the Beast was the #1 domestic movie last year. Even Love Live was popular enough to get to #8 for domestic movies, and Girls und Panzer has been running in cinemas since November and the BDs have outsold Tangled for example. Evangelion was a big mainstream hit. There's also a lot of examples of businesses, companies and towns/prefectures doing collaborations with non-children's anime. Oreimo was even used in an official government campaign.

>>84512481
What are you talking about?

>>84512499
There's been a lot of anime like it so clearly there's some market for them.

>>84510295
>jelly eurocuck angry his culture is dead

we won. You lost.

>>84512702
The kickstarter was just for the story reel, anon. Which was said like twenty times in huge font on the kickstarter page. I believe that is finished now, but now they have to go out and actually sell that story reel to an actual investor to get their fifty million or however much it actually costs to make their movie.

So, no date set down, possibly never, if they do go ahead with it it'll be years yet as they haven't even really started.

>>84512794
Videogames grew out of traditional tabletop war games which were skewed more towards an adult audience and that initial crowd kind of cultivated a different mentality that didn't really amount to much until doom hit the scene and blew everyone the fuck out, and suddenly games were for crusty dnd neckbeards again, and eventually that just turned into a general kind of appeal for people who liked more mature content.

Also videogames actually fought against right wing censorship instead of puss in out and regressing like comics, and there are more game developers than there have ever been animation studios so they never got caught in one niche, everyone had their poison and thus you got a bunch of genres for people with different sensibilities instead of an incestuous community of artists that all copy a bunch of old dudes from the 30's, and then copy eachother.

>>84512843
>Western countries already get all their "serious" entertainment from live action, cartoons are scraps they throw to kids.
I've been binging a bunch of Netflix's original stuff and decided to move on to their cartoons and it's sad how true this is. Even if you go past their "acquired" originals like the Dreamworks stuff and move right to Bojack Horseman, it's quite obvious they give them like, 1/4th the budget of probably Master of None because tween animation is just as good, right?

Didn't Netflix say they were going to splurge on animated shows? They spent like, $10mil on Marco Polo or some shit and their animated shows still look like ass. Why can't there be an animated show that is both visually appealing AND well-written? Why are audiences forced to choose one or the other basic storytelling needs for animation?

>>84512569
>games with horror elements
SWAT 4 was pretty nightmarish for a tactical shooter.
>storm a religious sect hideout
>the place is kind of creepy and the cultists are obviously not in the right mind, but nothing out of ordinary
>you get to the basement
>motherfuckers killed all their children and all you find is a bunch of graves, sect's brainwashing books and flowers cue your character reporting the incident, sounding like he's about to break down crying at any moment and is trying to hold it back

It's not that it's scary, but it's very uneasy and uncomfortable, especially for the first time.

>>84512856
>something really went wrong for them
That was half a century ago.

>I don't have to live in Japan
I'm not saying anime doesn't make money for someone in Japan. I'm not saying people don't know it exists. I'm saying it's not mainstream or normal for adults to talk about watching anime or even consider it an art form or medium of deep expression. It's just not thought of that way.
>all those statistics and awards
Everyone in Japan knows anime is everywhere. They've even may have seen some of the Ghibli films. I'm telling you from experience that anime is neither a big part of their lives nor is it frequently discussed. It's like Gen X-ers and Pixar movies. They think it's cute when they see the movie, they might even buy a keychain, but the vast majority of them don't give a shit.

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https://youtu.be/4WJdpOLm7Fg

>a single fucking person made thsee graphics

This is insane, how does the fucking five nights at Freddy's guy outdo cgi studios that, at best, just make a bunch of talking animals?

>>84512977
The animations look neat but that game looks like a total mess, man.

A platforming shooter with random RPG battles?

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>>84512977
https://youtu.be/CbvfsWBpL5M

>>84512767
>Are animated shows and features really this far behind in terms of what people are making?
Yeah, it's pretty nutty. Video game animations and things related to video games get complete immunity from the animation ghetto, as long as they stay small time. A film created for the game would absolutely have to be made live action though because cartoons are for children, lol. But as long as it's not up on the big screen, anything's acceptable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36lSzUMBJnc

>>84512977
I always get reminded of The Residents' videos when I see this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRlYFI4hhfs

>>84513051
Oh yeah the game is jank as fuck, but those boss battles are seriously some of the most intense high octane shit I've ever experienced in a game

>>84512866

Said the living target that can't even beat a bunch of goat fuckers in mud farms.

>>84512507
I'm not terribly familiar with the history of manga, but I think the more ambitious manga oriented towards older readers started appearing in the 60s and started gaining traction in the 70s.

>>84512554
Why do you people bring up /a/ so much? They don't decide what gets made, and even if they all swore to never bring up certain shows it wouldn't mean they aren't airing.

>>84512843
They had a proper movie industry before and after the war. Astro Boy was the first TV animation in 1963, but it wasn't some TV industry decision to create it and it was fully intended for children. The anime industry is also very segregated from the live action industry.

>>84512912
Some computer games are based on tabletop games, but on the whole computer and video games aren't based on them.

>>84512977
Scott's just plain gifted when it comes to rendering.

http://imgur.com/a/n3Lik
And to think, this man would've quit making games to become a wageslave.

>>84513073
>two different mediums with different markets and different structures for making money create dissimilar products for different demographics
>wanting film adaptations for games
>implying that game would even make a good movie

>>84513127
They're not based on them but almost every developer at the time almost had to be involved in the tabletop industry because st the time videogames were considered to be in the same market.

It's why every classical rpg just rips the shit out of dnd to a certain extent, everyone at the time that was involved in the game industry was near guaranteed to be playing it
They were always heavily entwined despite growing rapidly away from each other in the last two decades.

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>>84512977
Video games with limited graphics + music are actually scarier than someone attempting photorealism. With realism, if you get it right, you hit it out of the park (See: PT), however, it's really fucking hard to get it "right". The instant something looks off, your immersion is lost incredibly fast.

However, old sprite games or early CG games come across as "surreal", "unnatural". They freak us out more because of how un-real they look. It's like how Tim Burton effects were fucking terrifying because the stop-motion often moved at a different framerate than the humans so it was very alien and scary.

Take for example, this music, which is scary because it's hitting high notes that is very unnerving to the brain:
https://youtu.be/wH_2wl8Oq44
Their limited hardware which only allows for certain notes and are forced to compress into a static-y mess actually work to their advantage.

Or take the I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream game. The graphics and palette were limited so as a result, it ended up being really scary simply because it had this Francis Bacon-esque feeling to it with it's strange faces and gritty colors and strange compositions.

>>84512912
>Videogames grew out of traditional tabletop war games
That's a pretty big generalization- that was certainly a large part of the early gaming scene but in no way was it the only part, in fact it was a relatively small part. That was only really a thing on early home computers, which as a market was massively overshadowed by the Atari 2600/VCS.

>Also videogames actually fought against right wing censorship instead of puss in out and regressing like comics,
I don't think that's really fair to say. Comics and cartoons really got screwed during the 50's, when America went through an incredibly repressive, authoritarian stage. You couldn't really 'fight back' or you'd be fucked, it's not like how it was in the 80's and 90's, when it was just a bunch of church groups and soccer moms throwing a fit. Video games were just lucky enough to be born, as we know them, roughly 30 or so years after the McCarthy years ended.

>>84513209
Doesn't feel even as scary as BoC songs, desu.
Too fast-paced.

>>84513217
>a large part
>relatively small part
Durr hurr. I meant to put 'a large part of the early computer gaming scene' but a small part of the overall scene, but I'm a dum dum so I fucked it up.

>>84512977
Part of that is because they're robots, anon. Robots are far, far easier to do well than just about anything else in CGI, it's why the movie 'Robots' is still a fantastic looking movie that hasn't really aged at all, despite being more than 10 years old. Of course everything else about Robots sucks ass but that goes without saying.

>>84511768
But mecha has always been a big thing in anime. But even all that harem shit or moeshit there is still some good shows every season atleast for me.

>>84511768
Anime still releases so many series a year, 90% of it could be moeshit and there would still be 10%, which could be as high as 15+ shows, which are watchable.

Compare that to western animation that at MOST has four or five new cartoon series every year. Sometimes they get as fucking low as two new series a year. So if either are bad, too fucking bad for you. And they're always going to be a kids comedy or an adult stoner comedy, so that's even less to look forward to.

>>84513386
No anime is watchable. Fuck off, weebs.

>>84512961
>That was half a century ago.
It was half a century ago for anime too.

As for the rest, you're just projecting your own hatred of anime onto the Japanese which is something Westerners do on a routine basis. If things really worked the way you claim they do, the anime industry as we know it wouldn't exist, and the things I listed in my previous post wouldn't be true. In order to exist as we know it, the anime industry needs a critical mass of creators and consumers who believe animation is more than inconsequential children's entertainment. And how is it that "anime is everywhere" if nobody is interested in it?

>They've even may have seen some of the Ghibli films.
Yes, perhaps they may have seen the highest grossing Japanese movies of all time. Americans also may have seen Titanic and Avatar. Who knows.

It's also strange that two Ghibli movies were awarded Best Picture and that the Ghibli Museum is so popular among people who don't care about their movies.

>>84513194
Computer games originated in universities. I've read a fair amount about their history and I've never heard of there being any particular connection between the tabletop and computer game industries, aside from some RPGs and strategy games.

>>84513401
You're just jealous.

>>84512165
>AoT
>good
Just stop

>>84513418
Jealous of what? Of not having annoying faggots and dumb bitches as protagonists like in 90 percent of anime?

>>84513444
Jealous of anime being vastly more advanced than Western animation.

>>84512499
Well as they say japs has shit taste

>>84513444
The face of western animation is Spongebob. I know it's bait, but goddamn.

So this is the current /a/ bait thread

>>84513566
Still better than any female protagonist.

>>84512554
But anime has never haved golden age really. There has always been alot trash but people always remember those good ones.

>>84513581
Actually looks like more of a /v/ thread

>>84511679
>Alien Isolation
>bad

>>84513671
It is.
I have no idea why /v/ has such a boner for this shit game.

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>>84513418
>a critical mass of creators and consumers who believe animation is more than inconsequential children's entertainment
Pretty sure the anime industry mostly caters towards a niche demographic who are willing to buy high priced blu-rays.

>>84513401
So isnt your cartoons, america.

>>84513418
>your own hatred of anime
I fucking love anime m8. I probably don't hold many in higher regard for filmmaking than Madhouse and Gainax, and I expect big things from Trigger in the future. I think good anime is great, but I think it's in shorter and shorter supply in terms of writing, themes, characters, etc.

>It's also strange
It is super strange, eerie almost, one of the weirdest things about Japanese culture. Normie Japs get really uncomfortable when westerners ask about anime, probably because of the collective embarrassment about lolishit and otakus etc. I really wish the Japanese I knew valued anime more. There are obviously a lot of people who spend money on it, but you don't just meet them in passing, kind of like people who spend money on comics or obscure video games in the West.

I think you're projecting a bit because you want animation to be taken seriously (so do I, honestly), but wishing isn't really going to help, though learning about the history of animation is interesting and will at least explain why people think about it the way they do. I really don't understand why you're being such a facetious cunt, though.

>>84513495
Western animation grew out of comic books, which were men in tights with god complexes who could fly around. Stop fucking kidding yourself, man.

>>84513686
I'm a Strayan. American cartoons are shit nowadays btw.

>>84513566
The first season of Spongebob was honestly very neat. It's a shame it became what it became.

>>84513690
>all comics are capes
>all capes are bad

>>84513444
Well that is true that there is alot annoying MC nowdays with i hate but i like anime girls more than cartoon girls because anime doesnt go to realism in girls like west does.

>>84513753
I presume you're the Aussie shitposter.

>>84513684
Where do otakus get all money for those expensive stuff? Arent most of them NEETs and shut ins?

>>84513755
Fuck off. Female protagonists are always godawful.

There's a reason all great literary works of fiction are about males and everything with female protagonists is just shitty romance books no one cares about like Lady Chatterley's Lover. No one but hormonal teens wants to read or watch anything with a female lead.

>>84513800
You forgot to throw a couple of "niggers" and "faggots" in your post, senpai.

>>84513684
The studio owner in that image owns a studio that has never produced anything except like a few OVAs or something that nobody has ever watched. They've only supported other studios' productions. He also isn't speaking on behalf of the industry since a) there were at the time and still are people doing "serious" and "mature" and "artistic" shows, and b) a lot of people in the industry enjoy the "obsessive fan market" shows (also, "mature" etc. shows and the "obsessive fan market" aren't even mutually exclusive things).

The late night anime market is less than twenty years old, and before that nearly all TV anime aired during normal hours. Late night anime also encompasses many different kinds of shows.

>>84513800
Oh you mean female MC? Yeah i do agree but there is some good ones.

>>84513781
They're just closet hobbyists.
>>84513800
(You)
>>84513833
>still are people doing "serious" and "mature" and "artistic" shows
Please name a couple. I'm not shitposting, I actually don't know. It seems like everything I see nowadays looks like absolute trash.

>>84513819
>hurr durr /pol/
Women are the least interesting creatures on Earth.
You can make a dog the protagonist of your story, and it would still be easier to suspend the disbelief when the dog is smart, likable and competent.

Kinder, Küche, Kirche is the only thing women are good for.

>>84513871
Oh well i guess that makes sense.

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At what point does a cartoon/comic go from gritty and intense into an edgefest? Does the fact it's in an animated or drawn medium sort of diminish the effect it should give?

>>84513862
>there is some good ones.
No.

>>84513878
I'm confused, why did you type "hurr durr /pol/" twice?

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>>84513878
I would pay cash money to see a picture of your overweight underage face. You're the male version of those sad lonely SRS whores.

>>84513895
Well i cant chance your mind.

>>84513690
>I fucking love anime m8.
Based on your posts I have no reason to believe this is true.

>Normie Japs get really uncomfortable when westerners ask about anime, probably because of the collective embarrassment about lolishit and otakus etc.
The 90s called and want their otaku stereotypes back.

>I think you're projecting a bit because you want animation to be taken seriously
It already is taken seriously.

>Western animation grew out of comic books, which were men in tights with god complexes who could fly around. Stop fucking kidding yourself, man.
What does that have to do with what I said?

>>84513781
>Arent most of them NEETs and shut ins?
No but that's what Westerners want to believe for whatever reason.

>>84513800
Japan is not America and their female chararacters aren't the same as American ones.

>>84513871
>Please name a couple.
Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu, Erased, Death Parade, Zankyou no Terror, Psycho-Pass, The Perfect Insider, Joker Game, Sakurako-san, 91 Days... these are just recent ones off the top of my head.

>>84513894
I've seen some over the top edgy comics, but that pic just makes it look like you hate fun.

>>84513927
>Japan is not America and their female chararacters aren't the same as American ones.
They're all shit regardless.

>people replying to this bait thread

Anon literally posted using a picture of Fantastic Planet: one of the most influential avant garde animations in history.

Fucking Hell.

>>84513681
Because it's a well done game that's a good homage to a good movie.

>>84513954
I hope you're referring about America and it's female characters.

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>>84513927
I don't even know why waste my life arguing with autists like you.

>>84513954
That's completely arbitrary.

>>84513980
Don't tell me you're one of those morons who get triggered for no reason if they see someone reply to many people at once.

>>84513976
>it's a well done game
Hahahaha. It's a borefest with a predictable jumpscare Xenomorph that is nowhere near as terrifying as in the original movie and with vastly inferior atmosphere.
> good homage
More like an insult almost as bad as Colonial Marines.
> good movie.
At least we can agree on something.

>>84513975
OP post wasn't bait, every post thereafter was bait. Western animation is in a ghetto, that's just a fact. I don't know how the hell /v/ and /a/ shit posters got here.

>>84513978
No. All female characters. They're all cancer ruining fiction. No wonder /a/utists and /co/mblr defend them though.
>>84514017
>completely arbitrary
No, it's not. It's just truth.

>>84514040
How is it the truth?

>>84514017
I typed out multiple lines of text explaining a viewpoint based on actual experience and I get a reply that's literally
>ur wrong
>thats a sterotype
>no
I just don't know why I bother. I'm actually glad that there's a good chance you'll have this conversation in real life and people will think you're a fucking manchild and not talk to you anymore. You don't deserve it. Thanks for the anime recommendations, I guess.

>>84514075
You deserve it.*

>>84513762
Nah, I just think you're a faggot.

>>84514075
>I typed out multiple lines of text explaining a viewpoint based on actual experience and I get a reply that's literally
You essentially ignored everything I said about Ghibli etc.

>ur wrong
No, I really do not have any reason to believe you like anime.

>thats a sterotype
It's an outdated 90s stereotype.

>no
I already explained why it's taken seriously.

>I'm actually glad that there's a good chance you'll have this conversation in real life and people will think you're a fucking manchild and not talk to you anymore.
I have no idea what you're babbling about.

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>>84510227
>getting mad no one cares about cartoons
>fucking Americans

>>84514067
How is it not? Women have never been interesting.

>>84513927
Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu is the only good anime in the ones you mentions and 91 days has only one episode out so it's too soon to judge. The rest are mediocre or shit. Erased is especially shit.

>>84510761
you were asked to name 5 CG horror or thriller shows anon. The guys argument stands because your reading comprehension does not. CG sucks for horror and I cant even think of the last CG thriller that happened. Maybe if you wanna throw super hero movies into the mix but the guy is right in regards to horror as the only ones off the top of my heads were tim burton and thats mostly claymation

>>84514188
We're talking about fictional characters, not real people. A fictional character can be anything.

>>84514213
>The rest are mediocre or shit.
Of course. People always say this. They keep wanting "mature" shows, but then they reject all or almost all of them.

>>84514253
Most horror fucking sucks to begin with

>>84510227
Serious cartoons don't make money, idiot.

>>84514253
>you were asked
To prove that animation is fit for horror.
Which I and many people in this thread did. The idiotic HURR U CAN'T EVEN NAME FIVE SHOWS goalpost-moving is ignored because it's obviously moronic.
>The guys argument stands
Nice samefagging.

>>84514299
Of course they don't, because they don't exist in the America.

They make money in Europe and Japan.

>>84514338
>They make money in Europe
HAHAHA
HAHAHAHA
look at this fucking faggot having no idea what he's talking about

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>>84510227
>DUDE SUBVERSION LMAO
when will the Postmodernism meme die?

but also:

>implying Vidya isn't the superior fantasy/horror/adventure/psychological thriller medium

>>84514258
And they should be men because women are inherently not interesting. Yes, that includes fictional characters. Stop pretending otherwise.

>>84514381
>Vidya horror/psychological thriller
>good

>>84512127
>describe something as indescribable
>this somehow isn't the most blatant example of a writer using a genre trope to get out of doing their job

>>84514382
Gender is arbitrary in fiction. You can write a man and then make the character a woman. You can make a female character as interesting as you want to/are able to.

>>84514406
way more immersive, and thus much more terrifying.

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>>84514369
It's much easier to make your budget back when your budget was tiny to begin with.

>>84514258
The anon you replied to also asked for stuff that was good you know. You gave him a list with anime that mostly aren't.

>>84514439
>muh immersion
Oh, fuck off. Games suck at horror.

No game is terrifying as fucking Halloween and that didn't even age well.

>>84514437
why are you responding to obvious shitposting?

>>84514437
It doesn't fucking matter.
Women. Are. Never. Interesting. No matter how you write them.

>>84514323
>>84514323
Neither of those guys, but you're failing miserably.
Name 5.
It's ok if you can't, just admit it and stop avoiding the issue.

>>84514447
>Les Triplettes de Belleville
>$9.8 million budget
>$14.8 million box office
This isn't exactly doing well.

>>84514525
Stop samefagging you dumb cunt.
You're already proven wrong. Fuck off.

Why did animation become a regular normal hobby in places like Europe and Japan but is still looked down upon except for some exceptions in America? Also anyone else find it ironic that nobody in their right mind would check out something decent but they'd worship something created by Seth Mcfarlene?

>>84514472
He just told me to name some.

Almost every single time someone complains about the lack of "mature" shows and I list some, there are one of two outcomes: 1) they stop replying, or 2) they say all the shows listed--whatever they are--are shit and don't count.

>>84514521
You don't understand how fiction writing works and you may have some kind of mental disorder.

>>84514495
>>84514521
>>84514525
What the fuck is up with this thread?

>>84514530
It made its budget back plus some with a rather quiet theatrical release.

Sorry you think if a film isn't released in thousands of theaters and gets $900 mil return, it's considered a flop.

>>84514575
You know what? Fuck it. I'm tired of trying to explain the simple truth to you.
Name some of the dumb fictional cunts you find interesting and I'll tell you why they're shit.

>>84514544
>Can't defend argument
>Can't provide examples
>Keep screaming "samefag"
You've lost, Kiddo.

>>84514606
1) Your argument is already proven wrong, you idiotic goalpost-moving won't change the fact.
2) There are examples all over the thread, you ridiculous shitbag.
3) Don't even try to pretend you're not samefagging.

Now fuck off with your shit bait.

>>84514605
First of all there's no reason for me to name any since you've already decided they're all shit, and second of all you wouldn't even be familiar with any of them.

You seriously do have a mental disorder if you can't separate fictional characters from real people.

>>84514338
Yup, it's those damn Americans, too fucking stupid to capitalize on a huge market of serious cartoons.

Why do people always forget Peur(s) du Noir in these threads?
It's the best animated horror you have.

>>84514575
>seems like everything I see nowadays looks like absolute trash
Didn't you get the message?

>>84514563
Plebshit is palatable and bland by definition. That's hardly surprising. How many Europeans do you think really give a fuck about animation?

>>84514644
1-wrong
2-irrelevant. YOU were asked to provide 5 and you haven't
3-I'm not. You're wrong
Stop grasping at straws. You lost.

>>84510781
Hell girl and Higurashi are probably scarier than 99% of all american horror films.
That opinion comes from a person who thinks that Shutter Island is the scariest movie ever, so I guess you're not gonna agree with me.
Seriously though, Higurashis was a really good psychological horror.

>>84514707
He asked me to name shows, and I did.

>>84514425
It is a very useful technique, you clearly don't read/write prose/poetry. My style is very highly descripted scenes, i try to describe everything to force the reader to experience the scene with all their senses, but even i know that it's a useful technique to let the reader use their imagination instead. I could never describe something more terrifying than your imagination can make. So if you can make their imagination run wild you have done your job right as a writer.

>>84514563
America is much bigger, the lifestyle of their citizens is much more consistent and streamlined (You can make the argument the majority of the population has a widescreen TV or even a cell phone which isn't even close to true for the population of China) and because of this we're overall much dumber. It's the idea of "Most of anything is shit, and there more ____ there is, the more shit there is".

It's hard to regulate education on a country that is so hellbent on practices like "No child left behind" and as a result, smart kids are punished so their dumb friends can keep up and then you end up getting a population of children who hate school with a below average IQ who prefer to play video games than learn something because it's actually stimulating. School lessons have had all the fun sucked out of them in favor of regulated curriculum taught by teachers who aren't allowed to enforce strict practices because parents will complain (In Japan, it's not unheard of for your teacher to punish you by doing something mildly humiliating, similar to the "Dunce" method if you don't turn in your homework enough times).

These kids grow up and end up having no appreciation for anything outside of a fart joke or funny noodle arms and derp faces. It's why shit like Transformers makes fucking bank. American citizens are literally babies who are not allowed to grow beyond the simulation of "flashing colors" because their nationwide education won't allow them, and Hollywood is just so much easier to get enjoyment out of than school.

>>84514724
>y-you're w-wrong
Quality argument. Just shut up already.
>irrelevant
>i-it doesn't count guise
And I don't give a fuck what you asked me.
It's a faulty premise for obvious reasons such as the fact that there's not much animated horror which you know, and that somehow means that animation is not fit for horror because good examples that exist and are posted/mentioned in this thread somehow don't count in your retarded brain.

Now fuck off and just get cancer. I don't care how much you pretend you're not samefagging.

>>84514495
>Halloween
>scary

Holy shit...i dont even know how to express how terrible you are

>>84514823
It's scarier than any game.
Learn to read, /v/ermin.

>>84511712
But the thing is horror is made on the cheap and would actually be much more expensive to do in animation. For example, Psycho was made for about 7.5 million USD converted to modern.

>>84514821
Wow you're analfrustrated.
And you still lost.

>>84514724
Not that guy but here.
>Akira
>Perfect Blue
>certain scenes in Heavy Metal
>Madoka movies
>Vampire Hunter D
>Paranorman to an extent
>Wicked City

>>84514857
In 2011 the average cost for an anime episode was said to be $150,000, and $150,000 x 12 is $1,800,000.

>>84514860
>y-you lost
Good job being a dumb faggot who can only shitpost
>>84514871
>Vampire Hunter D
Anon, it's just Hellsing except way more pretentious. It's not really good horror. Yami Shibai and Kagewani would be a better example. Something like Lain can be pretty creepy too.
>Paranorman
Since you're mentioning kid stuff, I'd ask you to put Courage. It is at times better with atmosphere and tension than most horror movies.

>>84514763
That weren't trash.

>>84514818
>No child left behind
Canadian here and that wasn't the onky problem in both countries. The decline happened earlier and started when parents started having influence over the teachers and grades, thus making teschers afraid to fail students.

And in canada we had the no child left behind much earlier. All our advanced math courses were cancelled in favor of good enough math courses for failing people. Parents that repeat 'i hate math' are one of the biggest problems with education in north america. It has been proven that kids are much quicker at catching onto math until they are exposed to these type of people. There is nothing about math that makes it harder to do than drawing or music. It just takes practice but parents dont want that and demand their kids pass anyways.

/education rant

>>84514857
Good animation can be made for cheap, problem is it could never have a large theatrical release because that would eat up/inflate the budget way too much just for advertising and distribution. It would have to be entered in a festival circuit just to be successful, kind of like what Titmouse is doing with their Nerdland film.

>>84514939
Again: he asked me to name some and I did. End of story. Period. We are done talking about this.

>>84514857
My favorite horrors are not the trash shock horrors but stuff like The Omen and The Prophecy (christopher walken saying shhhh is creepy as fuck). These tyoe of stories dont need high budgets and also could be done with animation easily. The medium is never an obstical for a good writer

>>84514936
If you mean the new vampire hunter D yes. But the classic one had a lot of horror elements.

As for the person you replied to Perfect Blue was great.

>>84514968
Isn't that what the left brain-right brain theory is though? People who are creative tend to be shit at math and people good at STEM tend to be shit at being creative?

>>84514917
>Average anime episode
That number is extremely deflated by how much SoL and moeshit there was. They cost nothing to make because, one, they have barely any actual animation in them and two Japanese animators are glorified sweatshop workers. I'm not saying all anime is like that, just a majority that brings that number way lower than it should be.

>>84515050

Kamisama no Belladonna is also pretty terrifying in some scenes and has great use of animation.

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>>84514936
>Still being this mad because you lost.

>>84515016
>The Omen
Muh nigga. That and Rosemary's Baby are really good.
>>84515050
Seriously? I will give it a watch then. The anime I've seen was awful.

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>>84514586
It's either stubborn childishness or shitposting. Either way it's a horrible thread. Starting a thread in a negative way always leads to more negativity. The only way to get quality discussion is to make positive, quality posts.

>>84515012
>End of story. Period. We are done talking about this.
Then stop replying, faggot.

>>84515103
>thinking of pointless discussions about cartoons on an anime imageboard in terms of winning and losing
You're in for a rough life.

>>84515115
Perfect Blue could've been a live action movie, honestly, but something about the animation makes it spookier. More surreal, I guess. Even if you don't like it, it's only an hour and a half or so, so it's definitely worth a try.

>>84515066
Left brain right brain has been proven incorrect a long fucking time ago. The smartest people actuak tend to have the most interconnected brain hemispheres. Like Einstein, he had a lot of connections between left and right.

And no he was not bad at math like the media likes you to believe. He qas no dirac withh math but he was good at it

>>84515185
Eh, I meant Vampire D but I will give Perfect Blue a try too.
I've heard it feels Lynchean and I love Lynch.

>>84515066
It's simply not true, yes. Americans are conflate creativity and intellectualism. I say that as an American.

>>84514871
This list is hardly horror.
>Akira
sci fi action shit
>Perfect Blue
Thriller
>Heavy Metal
What the fuck was scary in this?
>Madoka movies
lmao

>>84515163
>still fighting this hard to save face when you've lost.

>>84510227
Maybe that's just the market? It's not like China normally produced high brow kino. Do you think the West is directly rensponsible for all the mind-numbingly idiotic wuxia that China has been shitting since the 60s? If anything the West has been lowering the bar for its own movies to please overseas crowds.

Japan has been in a cultural state of decay for decades now. Anime at this point is the worst it's ever been, and it's probably going to become more and more niche as Japanese society changes for the better.

If anything the West has set some quality standards. Sadly we're in economic crisis now and there's little breathing room for experimentation.

The technology is getting really amazing. As someone who really hates CGI in movies because there's something very wrong with how it's implemented, I think all-CGI features look fantastic now. Zootopia looked amazing and it's only going to get better provided we survive WW3

>>84513190
To be fair, he's fucking awful at nearly every aspect of game development. Guy really needs to work for someone else's projects, so that he can focus on his strengths while someone else directs, programs, and writes.

>>84515248
>>Heavy Metal
>What the fuck was scary in this?
The Bomber segment was great.

>>84515185
Making it an animation gives it a meta quality. It's already fucking with your concept of reality so i think making it as an animation gives it another level. Where you can wonder how this and your life merge. I love when stuff uses the medium to add another level of creativity to the creationn

>>84515016
Yeah and both those films are made for penny's by the film industry's standards. The problem with animation is that it's very hard and expensive to get lighting right which is important in horror and can be done significantly easier in live action.

>>84515248
You're a contrarian shitposter.

>>84515086
Many "moe" anime have good animation and production values, and it's not really the budget that determines those anyway. One Punch Man had an average budget according to its animation director.

"Moe" anime has also never existed to the extent that people think it has. People think it's 10, 20 or 30 shows a season when it's actually 1, 2 or 3.

https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/21872/
https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/10445/
https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/9995/
https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/15043/

>>84515135
I just did (and I'm making this post just to point that out and to point out how stupid your own post is).

>>84515250
Not even the same guy, contrarian shitposter.

>>84515200
Watch the 80s version first. If you like it you can try the new one just be warned it isn't the same. The old one is slow and....doomy the new one is very much an action like hellsing. It's servicable for what it is but the 80s version is better

>>84515253
Quit while you're ahead. There's no reasoning with OP.

For the record, you're mostly right.

>>84515250
>still pushing this bullshit
You're not convincing anyone.
>>84515248
>Thriller
>Perfect Blue (パーフェクトブルー Pāfekuto Burū?) is a 1997 Japanese animated psychological thriller-HORROR
But keep shitposting. I know you will ignore all the examples which prove that horror can be done wall in animation posted ITT and keep pretending you've won some fight because I refused to respond to your faulty premise.

>>84515253
>Anime at this point is the worst it's ever been
According to people who don't even watch it.

>it's probably going to become more and more niche
It's been doing the exact opposite.

>If anything the West has set some quality standards.
Yeah, about that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oCSrizqdOw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7L1QOjv1d0

>>84515248
>>Akira
>sci fi action shit
It shares more in common with western horror movies. It isnt a horror movie per say but it has elements
>>Perfect Blue
>Thriller
How the fuck is that a thriller? Its a psychological horror

>>84515324
>I just did (and I'm making this post just to point that out and to point out how stupid your own post is).
So it's not "End of story. Period. We are done talking about this."
It's you being so insecure you can't let someone else get the last word.

>>84510227
>limited to kiddie shit
I mean, the market is saturated with them, but that hardly means it's limited to them. Every year something good comes out. It's just got lower budget and returns, and is harder to find.

Would you say that live action is limited to a narrow range of action blockbusters just because the market is saturated with them?

The easier argument to make is that the feature length theatrical release film has been in a creative rut in the West for the better part of the last two decades.

>Ideal for fantasy, horror, adventure, psychological thrillers.
Eh. Technically skilled animation is pretty expensive even compared with CGI, and it limits your ability to use big name stars to draw crowds so if we're just comparing the two it might actually hurt your returns in the same genre. There might be a handful of situations where animation beats CGI on either budget or output, but the gap shrinks every year.

Never mind that "cartoons can do special effects too!" is still a pretty limiting view of the medium.

>all this discussion of horror
Everyone's argument is garbage.

Live action film being creatively bankrupt and letting popular genres and production budgets dictate their creative choices doesn't really make live action a bad medium for horror.

In theory, animation can get pretty horrific. But in practice horror is a niche market and the kind of animation that can elicit real chills costs money. You're probably not going to get a successful theatrical release animated horror film. You might be able to do some spooky shit on TV, but TV horror is even more hit-or-miss than film horror.

>Hellboy
Check out The Amazing Screw On Head, the Hellboy movies (animated and live action), and Pan's Labyrinth and compare. I've rarely if ever seen Mignola-esque art animated well enough to carry horror, and out of the live action bits Pan's Labyrinth probably gets the spooky atmosphere better than any of what I've mentioned.

>>84515393
Not that guy, but once you start arguing about classifying media into genres you know you're in for a pointless argument.

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I'd like to see more horror animation if only because Ghost Hound is my single favorite horror media in any medium.

Disappointed that nobody has brought up horror comics in all this though. You're all "man, this movie wasn't scary! all movies are not scary." "Yeah well videogames don't scare me at all! I'm unscareable!"

Nobody has brought up comics at all on /co/. Is there anything better than reading Junji Ito? Fuan no Tane is pretty formulaic but a great read too. I'm just picking up some horror comics lately too. The Veil was pretty good, although part of the ending was a bit unnecessary. If we're talking cartoons only, I'd love to see this animated if they can capture the art style of Gabriel Hernandez in motion.

>>84515253
Quality standards for children's storytelling, which is basically just good storytelling. Something like Zootopia is only just now reaching the proper level of storytelling adults have been getting from tv and movies for decades now.

And tech advancements has nothing to do with genre, subject matter, or story. Just because CG has gotten visually better doesn't mean the genre has stayed stuck in being "just for kids" for ages now.

>>84515428
>>84515400
Thanks for these recs to fight the shitposting. I'm gonna check these out.

>>84515368
I have asked multiple times in this thread what are current good animes and no one has been able to provide examples. I still say it probably is there but its drowning in shit. Most anime is ripping off the same ideas and yes the haram shit and ecchi shit is drowning out the medium

>>84515350
>You're not convincing anyone.
I'm not trying to. I just enjoy watching you be a fool.
Like so:
>But keep shitposting. I know you will ignore all the examples which prove that horror can be done wall in animation posted ITT and keep pretending you've won some fight because I refused to respond to your faulty premise.
You're so anally raped you don't even realize that's not me, OR the poster you were originally getting beat by.
You think everybody who disagrees with you, and proves you wrong is the same person.
Like most loser believe.

>>84515438
>tech advancements has nothing to do with genre
The fact that CG is more palatable to audiences has a lot to do with how likely that media is to be financially successful and therefore produced with greater frequency. I think CG is inherently better at conveying emotion as well, though I admit that's just my own opinion.

>>84515428
>Disappointed that nobody has brought up horror comics in all this though
Anon.
>>84510436
Ben Templesmith can be really terrifying. An animated movie done in his style would be great.

>>84515400
>doesn't really make live action a bad medium for horror
No one's saying it is. Just that horror animation has as much validity and potential to be great.

>>84515476
Kill yourself, shitposter.

>>84515393
>per say
Idiot.

>>84515443
I mean... I was more picking pieces to illustrate an argument. Amazing Screw On Head is more comedy. Hellboy's animated and live action incarnations have been pretty disappointing IME.

You want animated horror, I might suggest Magnetic Rose or Kakurenbo instead.

>>84515505
You first. Mr "I lost the argument and am rectally devestated"

>>84515400
>Eh. Technically skilled animation is pretty expensive even compared with CGI
3D is actually more expensive, which seems to be a counter-intuitive idea.

>>84515471
>yes the haram shit and ecchi shit is drowning out the medium
It isn't. Have you ever considered actually watching anime? Or do you think hearsay is an acceptable substitute?

Everyone wants to have an opinion on anime but nobody wants to watch it.

>>84515400
>Pan's Labyrinth
God that movie is brilliant. It takes what i loved about family fantasy movies and makes a fanrasy horror out of it. Brilliant movie

>>84515476
A moron like you calling someone else a fool is just precious.
>beat by
Whatever helps you sleep at night.

>>84515492
>No one's saying it is. Just that horror animation has as much validity and potential to be great.
Aesthetically, sure. And it's not just potential. Animated horror exists. Good stuff too. But until the market changes, they're going to keep being a nightmare to fund, so you're not likely to see too many of them.

>>84513113
Wut? Ive literally never heard this meme in my life. What are you talking about?

>>84515428
Yeah we have excluded comics in this. Hell, even hellblazer has some pretty good horror story arcs.

>>84515528
Different Anon.

Debates have winners and losers, arguments don't. And actual debates are impossible to have on 4chan..

>>84515471
Every fucking time I ask for a good anime I get either:

> Watch [popular shonen]!!!!

or

> Pffft don't listen to people who suggest [popular shonen]
> watch [obscure anime with a long Japanese title] it's fantastic
> I watch it
> it's embarrassingly bad moeshit / edgy as fuck / teen drama

Every year I give it a shot but nope.

>>84515509
I think the hardest thing about Hellboy in an animated or live action setting is the lighting (dark places with black backrounds in so many panels), and that a lot of the climate of the world is constructed during fairly dull scenes of dialogue where the viewer might just get bored where the reader wouldn't. I really do like Mignola but it's just one of those things that doesn't translate easily, not that it couldn't be done with someone really dedicated to presenting it as it is in the comics.

Really liked Memories. I think Cannon Fodder had a really neat climate too. I'll check out Kakurenbo for sure.

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>>84510227
>Sigfried animated film will never be made
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDoJMwjs0I8

>>84515529
>3D is actually more expensive
But the ROI is different because the medium makes inherently increases viewership.

>le no one watches anime guy
Kill yourself.

>>84515486
It's much easier for CG to convey slight subtle movements that would otherwise cost another $10,000 for 2D, but I think something like Lilo & Stitch or Tarzan could easily rival the acting for a lot of modern Disney-Pixar CG movies.

I do agree CG is more palatable for general audiences, but it's also a bit unfair because 2D was unfairly put into that position. No one would think Rockwell illustrations were for children despite having elements of exaggeration, but that perception changes the instant it starts moving. If 2D had a healthier history, audiences would just accept 2D as another art form the same way they are easily able to buy people in tights and capes flying around as serious stories.

>>84515529
Again. No examples

You have not proved any point yet

>>84515400
>TV horror is even more hit-or-miss than film horror
Is it really that hit or miss?
I may have shit taste, but I really like TV horror.
Then again, my only exposure to it were Twin Peaks, Twilight Zone and Hannibal which were good when it came to horror.

>>84515603
HAHA!
He admitted to shitposting the entire thread.
Do your job, mods, and ban him now.

>>84515529
>3D is actually more expensive, which seems to be a counter-intuitive idea.

There are externalities that give 3D a boost. If you aren't working on your next film once the last one is released, your studio and your employees are in a really precarious position.

A 2D studio might be a good bet for an individual film, but they're going to have to be a good bet again and again and again or they're going to have a hard time existing.

>>84515597
Live action has a lot of room for quiet and pacing and building tension. If Fargo is allowed to take its time, I really see no reason beyond cultural inertia preventing an animated film from doing the same.

For something Hellboyish, I think it's the hard blacks doing it a lot of the time. In animation, the staging has to work with the characters in more than one position. On the page, it's real nice putting a big dark shadow behind a figure. But if a figure moves, shit gets weird. And you've got to plan around that.

>>84515613
I totally agree. It's lamentable that it doesn't get the consideration it justly deserves, especially vis-a-vis production companies who spend inordinate amounts of money producing live action trash-tier spinoff shows that could easily be solid gold animated shows with a little effort.

>>84515616
Twilight Zone is good. Paranoia Agent was mostly good. Twin Peaks was... I wouldn't classify it as horror necessarily. I love it, but it's its own thing.

I certainly wouldn't say it can't be done. I'm just not sure where it would go or who it would be for. You're not going to get one of those hour long deeply serialized things running alongside Game of Thrones or Walking Dead, for example. You might get an Adult Swim release, but it would stay niche and if it was any good it would be years between seasons. At best this might be a good Netflix Original thing, but only if they've got the data to back it up.

>>84515594
What is so difficult about Googling anime recommendations, looking at top lists on database sites, reading season charts, trying out episodes, and possibly reading ANN's season previews?

I've never had to ask anyone for recs and I've watched hundreds of shows.

>>84515612
>Kill yourself.
I should kill myself because other people don't know what they're talking about? Are you mentally handicapped?

>>84515614
You've probably already decided that everything is shit, so anything anyone recommends to you will be automatically deemed shit.

>>84515613
TV anime conveys subtle movements all the time, it doesn't require 24 frames per second animation.

>>84514748
As much i liked higurashi season 2 kinda ruined what VN did right.

>>84515653
>There are externalities that give 3D a boost
I never considered this. It's certainly an interesting point.

>Fargo
I really hope shows like this and True Detective are a turning point in television in terms of pacing and mood like Sopranos and West Wing were in character-driven dialogue as opposed to huge, overarching plots (the root problem with a lot comic-book movies IMO).

>Hellboyish
I think stark coloration works so much better in comics as opposed to film (and so much better in Hellboy than other comics). Coloration makes mood in film (Enemy, Drive, and Tangerine come to mind) in addition to so many other factors.

>>84515741
>What is so difficult about Googling anime recommendations, looking at top lists on database sites, reading season charts, trying out episodes, and possibly reading ANN's season previews?
Because what comes up from those searches makes me wanna vomit.

>>84515741
If you wanted to talk about anime
>>>/a/

If you're the OP then you made a shitty contrarian thread and you should kill yourself.

If you think no one watches anime but you, you should do everyone else a favor and stop posting.

>>84515741
>TV anime conveys subtle movements all the time, it doesn't require 24 frames per second animation.
yeah most of the time they do it with a still image... oh wait
jokes aside, 10/10 nice bait thread

>>84515741
>What is so difficult about Googling anime recommendations, looking at top lists on database sites, reading season charts, trying out episodes, and possibly reading ANN's season previews
Whats so bad? Not only do i have to go through click bait websites, i end up watching shit cause they all promote the same shit.

Thanks though you are proving our point cause you cant name a single good anime