list one character arc that any modern major cape character has

>>84200689
Cyclops- Schism

Depends on what you mean, adding flight to Superman is pretty big

>>84200689
Cosmic Marvel from 2004 to 2011.

>>84200689
Deadpool- Drowning Man

When Carol became Captain Marvel

The Winter Soldier arc, took Bucky from being a dead sidekick for 70 years to being a moody living antihero.

>>84201338
You forgot the whole Phoenixclops thing, "murderer" is one hell of a change in Scotty's status.

And I'm pretty sure they'll keep the changes coming in the X-stories.

>>84200689
civil war turned tony stark in the biggest asshole in the marvel universe, one more day turned peter parker into a manchild

Bucky coming to life
Wally everything
One More Day
Batman and Son


what all am i missing

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>>84200689
protip: read between the lines close enough and you'll see it

>>84200689

peter david's 2006+ era x-factor fucked with most its chars with -so far- permanent consequences

deadly genesis established prof x as a shady antihero


nu-52 did a whole bunch of changes and not all of it will be undone on rebirth

>>84200689
Lots of things in Invincible have long-lasting effects on the characters.

Then again, it's written by one guy, so it doesn't have the Marvel/DC problem where everything that happens is ruined by the conga-lines of new stories by new writers running in parallel.

The problem with MOST cape comics is that they can never change, they can never end, and nothing that happens in any of them has any weight or meaning because the all powerful status quo will return in time beyond a shadow of a doubt. It's why I steer clear of the big 2, and stick with the series that are written by one guy and have clear arcs, instead of an endless train of cash-grab "OH IT'S SO SHOCKING WHAT WE HAVE DISCOVERED" shit like the whole Captain America thing.

>>84202701
>no more sniktbub

As a 90sfag this cuts deep.

>>84202568
(A): Tony was always an asshole. It's just that now he gets called out on it.
(B): OMD shouldn't count (in a lot of ways) because that was writer's Tourette's syndrome at it's worst. And besides, the whole point of it was to retcon magic undo the story with actual long-term consequences.

>>84202701
Can I get some rec reading for x-men? seems they're all over the place in content.

>>84202747
I say, I do so feel quite affectionate towards James, say you do as well. Oh, do say so!

>>84202968
>>84202968
>>84202968

Giant Size X-Men #1
Uncanny X-Men #94 and onward
there are like crossovers and shit but you have like 100 issues of comics before you need to start worrying about them

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>>84200689
You gotta be kidding me. No one has mentioned Dick yet? One of the only characters to transcend sidekick status.

>>84200689
MorrisonBat changed Talia from a cocksleeve into a real-person villain

Byrne Man of Steel turned Lex Luthor from a mad scientist to an evil businessman

>>84203031
Most DC sidekicks stop being sidekicks, actually

>>84200689
One More Day because they turn beloved hero into immature hero

>>84202968
My bare-bones collection essentials are:
Morrison's New X-Men run
Whedon's Astonishing X-Men run
Messiah Wars: Second Coming
AvX
All-New X-Men: Yesterday's X-Men

There's other stuff that you need to gloss over a summary about but are just not worth reading.
(in my humble opinion)

>>84203125
>Second Coming
>AvX
>ANXM
Do not listen to this anon, for he is shit

>>84202993
Who the fuck is James? I was talking about Logan.

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Deadpool, he started Duggan's run with not much going on. now he has a revitalized supporting cast, a wife, a daughter, a new friendship with Captain America, and became an Avenger. Also added on a huge amount of backstory with flashback issues and now is doing the same thing with 2099 issues. Duggan also gave Wade his first great villain.

he's one of the least stagnant Big 2 characters running right now.

>>84200689
DnA turned Star-Lord into a funnyman and that's basically defined him since

>>84203194
oh and he started his own team

>>84203194
>lasting change
>lasting
Only counts if it lasts past the current writer

>>84203031
Too gradual to count, the Nightwing persona was basically a TeenTitans costume change from 'Titans ex-sidekick Robin to 'Titans ex-robin and then it was just same situation-different city/costume/dayjob/team.
He never stopped being the same guy he was as The Boy Wonder.
Even if you can say that he's actually changed, it hasn't been in one important story.

>>84203250
well Duggan's been on him for 4 years, it's highly doubtful the next writer won't use ANYTHING he's created.

>>84202841
>because that was writer's Tourette's syndrome at it's worst.
Editorial, not writers. JMS left the book over it because Quesadilla forced him to retcon basically his entire run.

>>84203272
Stranger things have happened

>>84202499
Alternatively, we could add Jason Todd becoming the Red Hood.

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>>84200689
Everything from 52 onward

>>84203193
Logan? Why he's in his cups, no doubt! Such a brute on some days, if you don't mind my saying.

>>84203031
Why does this fucking count anyway, wasn't his whole fucking bullshit for a while that he didn't want to end up being bruce and wanted to be his own hero or whatever. Then he just ends up doing it anyway.

>>84203193
You're kidding, right?

I think it's pretty interesting that of all the major character changes in the last few years, most of them have been Marvel. DC has better comics, but they still have been basically just using their characters are plot devices for stories for awhile. Like can we honestly say Batman has changed in any way for the past few years? Even after Damian's death (and rebirth) he still seems to be the same guy.

>>84203329
But he did it his own way, that was the entire point of Batman & Robin

>>84203324
>if you don't mind me saying.
Not at all. *chortle*

>>84203369
I'm seriously serious. Totes.

>>84203329
Very rarely does we want to do and what we need to do align

>>84203379
>Like can we honestly say Batman has changed in any way for the past few years? Even after Damian's death (and rebirth) he still seems to be the same guy.
Morrison Bruce and Snyder Bruce are nothing alike though

>>84203379
Well he started neglecting Damian more after he came back, to the point where Damian has now grown out of idolizing Bruce and wanting to be Batman and is ready strike out in his own

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>>84200689
Because Fraction, Clint will be written like this for at least the next ten years.

>>84203425
But that wasn't a character arc transforming Morrison Bruce into Snyder Bruce. That's just the two characters being different Batmans written by different writers.

Scott becoming Rightclops is an writer-wide mandate. Like no one can write him otherwise, even if he does contradict himself between different writers (ex. I didn't kill prof x/i'd do it again)

>>84203398
I applaud your use of "*chortle*", Sir. I have been outdone. I tip my tophat to you. Well done, indeed.

>>84203324
what the fuck is wrong with you

>>84203489
>But that wasn't a character arc transforming Morrison Bruce into Snyder Bruce. That's just the two characters being different Batmans written by different writers.
New 52 was the arc that changed them.

>>84203263
Life is going to be a revelation for you.

>>84203263
The story where he stops being Bruce's sidekick should count since everything else grew from that

>>84200689

Convergence - Superman.

>>84203263
>Too gradual to count

Like real world development?

>>84200689

Moores first Arc on Swamp Thing changed the character massively

Beast has become a complete asshole hypocrite who complains all the time and does nothing right

Kid Loki

>>84200689
Green Arrow: Longbow Hunters or any story by Mike Grell

>>84203489
*Ahem* ...

"I would do it all again" was in reference to the resurgence of the mutant species after Scott's choice to use the Phoenix Force. Repercussions and all.
"I didn't kill the Professor" seems like an obvious lie, even to me, but that doesn't contradict the fact that he would do it all again to obtain those desired effects in regards to mutantkind.
They aren't mutually exclusive.
And besides, maybe HE didn't do it ... There Was Another...

>>84203379
I noticed this too

Other than new 52 changing some characters like the entire YJ crew for the worst, DC's heroes have been very much the same for the past few years. Even then they're probably going to try and fix the YJ people eventually, and it's already starting with Tim

Johns did some work on Aquaman's characters that I guess could count, especially for Orm and Mera

Grayson could've been this for Dick but they reverted back in just two years

>>84203513
It's a word that use more love, really. Mostly because it almost rhymes with turtle. Almost.

>>84203540
Many different little things converging for effect.

>>84203726
>>84203379

DC's change comes slower but when it does it's usually for the better and feels much more organic. Marvel on the other hand just seems to change for he sake of change, which you can see if their Marvel Now(er) line up

Barry Allen-rebirth
>muh mom

>>84203488
Like what? Never read his run is it good?

>>84203795
The first three issues are really, really good.

Then Fraction tries to write a multi-issue arc.

In terms of character development id say Damian during the Morrison run. He was fully developed when he died so there was no point in bringing him back from a creative stand point.

Most of the stuff in this thread is a result of writers changing or misinterpreted stuff between teams, not actual development or decent change within continuity.

>>84203726
DC has always been too strong on maintaining the status quo of their big money characters.
It's a good thing for being casual or needing a jumping-on point but it sucks otherwise.

>>84203766
More like DC doesn't do much with them at all.

Marvel is more team based so it's easier to mess with a single character or two.

But if you try to fuck with Batman you could potentially fuck with an entire line of books.
The Brother Eye period and Dickbats period are the only big changes that have happened to him in an entire decade and lingered a bit, and the former messed with him in the JL and the latter messed with all the batbooks.

>>84203795
You really should. That run is fantastic. The filler issues with Annie Wu focusing on Kate aren't super, but still enjoyable, but the main book is amazing.

Basically they turn Clint from a badass super spy into a can't do anything right, no good with girls, kind of thick headed schlep of a man, but is still awesome with the bow.

>>84200689
Does it have to be modern? Ben, Johnny, and Sue all developed over silver and Bronze Age F4.

New 52 Superman being gone and post crisis Superman's deal in general.

JL, the Superbooks, and Trinity are all going to address this in some way, and it'll be a little while before new 52 Supes comes back, especially if Superman sells well. And he has a kid now so he's gonna deal with that.

What is the cut off for modern

>>84203823
But DickBat was a great step forward, you can totally see him strapping on the BatBelt again if Bruce ends up in traction or something.
It makes sense for a new status quo where there's this one Back-upBat out there now.
They won't have the guts to make it a thing though, DC just likes their world as is.

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Green Lantern/Green Arrow for both Hal and Ollie

Added the moral crusader/ultra liberal/huge hypocrite aspects to Ollie that still define him to this day, and for Hal it changed the general characterization of him from staunch thoughtless do-gooder to somebody who has a lot of doubts and actually questions authority, among other traits that persist still

Remember when Sherlock Holmes had that event that affected all subsequent stories? Remember when James Bond finally met a woman he would stay with for every future movie? Remember when Little John was killed off and Robin Hood is still trying to get over it?

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>>84203891
Speaking of Supes, what about Death of' ???
That was one of the biggest change-ups in his history. It's aftermath added two major villians to the gallery and one clone-son to his supporting cast.

>>84203823
>More like DC doesn't do much with them at all.

Not really true at all. The Green Lantern Mythos has grown and changed, Superman is a father now completely detached from his past life. Like I said, the change comes slowly

>>84203823

Yeah Son of Batman didn't change anything at all...

>>84203994
This is like asking if Elmer Fudd ever stopped hunting Bugs Bunny and became vegan. We're talking stories from another time, that aren't linear, and are designed to be stand-alone adaptations.

Comics are a linear storytelling format, and while there are plenty of one-off stories, in the world of DC and Marvel, there are existing universes with characters that change and adapt (or at least should) based on the events that happen to them.

>>84204068
Other than the inverted Batman/Robin thing, not really, yeah.

>>84204008
Yea, but ultimately Superman came back, basically the same, and thus really having little impact on the character for the long term.

As for the other characters, i.e. the fake Supermen and Doomsday, they definitely made their impact in the title, and while they're still around, it's arguable that they haven't done anything lasting to the world.

>>84204134

Yeah Damian doesn't exist anymore after all. So glad that was retconned

>>84204149

Current Superman is actually pretty different. The father route is really working for him

>>84204193
Maybe, but given the overall lesson of this thread in regards to DC, how long do you think that'll last?

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>>84200689
Silent War - Black Bolt. It created a falling out between Medusa and BB. Which had BB no longer trusting Medusa with his plans. He began to decide things without her in that story and continued on in all the stories that followed, from his Illuminati work, the WoK T-bomb, The truth about the second T-bomb, faking his death, the deal with Kang, etc.

>>84204250

lots of things have changed but you want to ignore them it seems

>>84203031
Eh, then Bruce came back and he was Nightwing again, then New 52 Nightwing, then Grayson...

>>84204250

Superdad is unlikely to end desu. Superman has been with his son for everyday of the boys life. It isn't like with Zods boy where Superman was asking "How do I become a good father" Superman already is Superdad, it's a fact. If anything were to happen to Jon Superman wouldn't go back to being the blue boyscout

>>84200689
Which writer/book would you say was the turning point for Cable? He definitely is quite a different creature since Liefeld shit him out back in the day.

>>84200689
Daredevil: Born Again

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>>84200689
Wolfsbain will never be the sweet innocent lass she once was ever again. They would have to do a true reboot of continuity and characters like DC to undo her torment and the long edgy phase they tried to force on her.

>>84202701
Shame Kurt isn't in that image what with the retarded 'actual demon spawn' retcon.

Marvel went out of their way to destroy the characters people cared most about. James Howlet is also unforgivable butchery. It's like JQ and friends don't understand what people liked about any of these characters.

>>84204400
You ... liked the mindless animal drunken killer take on the character?

>>84204315
No, he stayed Batman until New 52

>>84204478
Which character do you mean and what are you trying to say?

House of M/Decimation for Cyclops.
Messiah Complex for Cyclops.
Schism for Cyclops
AvX for Cyclops.

>>84200689
When Hawkeye stopped being a villain.

>>84202747
At least we have Old Man Logan, so that's something I guess. Also X-23 is not such a bad replacement, unlike Whor it makes an inkling of sense

>>84204340
I used to read his title-character book in the '90s and that took him in a way different direction from early X-Force right from the beginning.
That said, he's now different from that example too.

>>84204540
Jeeze, when was that? Like IronMan#69? Avengers#86?

>>84204047
>Mythos
so not the character

>>84204518
Hello fellow Cy-fan, I too yearn to discuss our hero at length... Yearn, I say! But this thread is starting to get a little epic and we can't derail it with too much satisfying Scott-talk that we can get in any X-Thread.

>>84204590
It completely changes Hal during Emerald Twilight

>>84204783
Now there's a character who should have a completely different personality from before all that went down.

>>84203194
i dislike duggan's dp almost as much as Way's

the only worthwhile development on the char came from Remender's brief use of him

>>84200689
you assumed we care, OP. we don't. you can tell a good story without making it permanent. learn to read.

>>84205469
God, you are dumb.
Children's books have character development.
Do comics really have to dumb down past that for you to be able to follow them?
Here's the thing: I don't think keeping a "reader" like you would be worth that.

>>84205717
Anon, the reason it's done in comics is so no writer is held back by a previous writer. If they choose to continue the character development, change directions, or ignore it completely, it's all about freedom for the writer. "Children's books" don't have this problem as most are one and done stories.

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>>84205780
Your "freedom" for the next writer amounts to jack' when the only stories made end up being bland rehashes of superficial conflicts.
If there's never any development the characters become two-dimensional mockeries of who they once were at their best.
If however, they are allowed to grow and develop organically through multiple enterpretations and situations a fuller picture forms in the zeitgeist for other creators to draw upon for inspiration.
Just look at Spiderman: for all his history the single greatest problem in his character development has been the multiple failed attempts to return him to a past point of greatness.
OMD was the most obvious and literal example. But there's been a long string of stories about endangered and sacrificed loved ones because writers wanted to return Peter to the troubled, hard-luck, grieving youth who finds escapism in superheroics ... and so the man-child Parker never grows past that.

>>84200689
Sabretooth - Axis

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>>84206112
Do magic mind-control lobotomies count?
Because if it does there's Superior Spiderman.
And then there's amnesia, like with Carol Danvers.
All those random Incredible Hulk transformations too.
With Vision you could count reprogramings.
And what about retcons?

>>84200689
The Brood Saga gave Captain Marvel energy powers and Kitty Pryde Lockheed.

>>84204346
This so much. Why can't she just have a nice marriage to that Asgardian wolf god, have a couple of kids that won't die or grow up to try and kill her, and have Dani be the the little packs baby sitter?

A team of asgardian wolf Kids could be cute. You could even cross them over with Power Pack.

>>84206107
It wouldn't be so bad if writers just did their own universes and takes on the characters. I mean Digimon has several universes featuring similar themes but different characters and worlds. A cape book should be like that when it switches writers.