When looking at the fighting skills of Karate Kid and Lady S

Depends whether you mean the physics-defying superpower shit or the bullshit martial arts shit desu senpai.

Karate Kid could probably do everything in that video though, martial arts are his superpower.

>>83690114
both, but let me explain. Ever watched an episode of Fist of the North Star? Kenshiro is a human, he isn't meta in anyway, but he learned how to harness the inner powers of the human body, in mind, body, and spirit. Karate Kid and Shiva have(or should have)too. But I feel like they are held back by status quo and Batman social standing(aka they can't be better than him).

>>83690309
Batman has beaten karate kid and lady shiva before.

>>83690334
Threeboot hardly counts, Batman never beat the original Karate Kid. Black Lightning had to help take him down (and KK had amnesia at the time anyway).

>>83690334
That is my point. I am assuming that are the same anon. >>83690114

I can see Shiva and Karate Kid doing such things because of their unwavering discipline to the arts of war/combat unlike Batman. But Batman and other heroes like them hold them back from reaching such heights, because if they were to reach them characters like Batman can not longer compete or stand against them( not without major help or cheating anyway). If kenshiro was to be placed in the DCU, he would be nerfed to hell an back not to out shine other non meta martial artist.

Lot of characters are being held back because of Batman.
>Any metahuman
>any other martial artist
>his rogues gallery

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The problem with Lady Shiva is that, at her best, she's an invincible grandmaster martial artist whose skills are miles above anyone else in any given story but without going full "kung fu superpower". What makes her work in O'Neil's Question, for example, is that she's an untouchable badass in a world of very fallible, very believable characters. But even then, her skills never go straight into superpower levels; at best, they tightrope over the line.
The most bullshit things she's ever done are probably restarting Cass heart with one punch after killing her and judo-tossing Supergirl once, but apart from that, she's never gone full HnK with, for example, the whole pressure points thing. She's very rarely been over the top like that. And honestly, it's not like it'd make her an inherently better character anyway. I'd still love to see it though, at least once.

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Cassandra Cain sort of can take out large groups or small armies of aliens or people. There have been numerous times were it was seen in her ongoing where her speed is incredible for being non-meta.

She's been able to dodge bullets and even be faster than one. The thing to note is Lady Shiva retaught her this technique (long story short she lost the skill to be good).

So.. Shiva CAN do this too.

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Also Cassandra going Kenshiro on a thug.

>>83692307
What Hell happened to Cass Cain? She was cool character that DC likes to shit on, she should be on the Arkham Knight game and not Bárbara.

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>>83692353

To be fair, Batdad scolded her for doing this afterward.

I dunno, Batman's got skills straight from Gotham City.

More that the type of stories most people are telling don't suit that kind of action. There's stuff like The Raid issue of Moon Knight that's kinda close?

>>83691993
Doesn't Richard Dragon have a chi attack?

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>>83692474
The closest thing I can remember is the DRAGON'S CLAW from the original Kung Fu Fighter run, which when touched gave Dragon some kind of supernatural hyperconcentration, although it could've been just a placebo effect, a way to concentrate.
That said, I haven't read Dixon's Dragon run so I have no idea if he gave him anything else in that one.

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>>83692384

Cassandra suffers from four things:

1.) She isn't Barbara Gordon.
2.) She's a minority character.
3.) She was created in the late 90s.
4.) There aren't artists in DC's caliber that can stage fight scenes like Damion Scott, Rich Leonardi, or Ale Garza did.

I think the closest one they got currently is Freddie Williams III and the closest for Cassandra was Marcio Takara in that lone issue of Batman & Robin Eternal and Marcus To on Red Robin. .

>>83692474
He does. He did.

That and the weird kung fu wizard bullshit he did. Communicated to Vic via a god damn scorpion.

>>83692307
>Dodge bullets
>Non-meta
No

>>83692451
The Moon Knight issue was more based on Tony Jaa than the Raid boys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79ditPebZ8g


I'd kill for the day if someone at DC did a one-shot Raid issue with Cassandra, Shiva, or Dragon.

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>DC will never make Lady Shiva, Cass Cain, and Karate Kid back into the badasses they're supposed to be
why even live?

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>>83692607

>>83689930
why the fuck are you putting shiva on the same level as karate kid? he could wipe the floor with every other martial arts master dc has at once.

has there ever been a proper Wuxia style character in the big two? Iron fist kinda counts but its usually only apparent in his own stoeies

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>>83692616
What I'd love about something like that is that, with the right artstyle, you'd end up with an invincible wuxia character thrust into a gritty modern martial arts flick. Like throwing Gordon Liu into Sha Po Lang. Done right, the contrast could be really cool.

>>83692690
The faint, vague hope that at least one of the will be featured in a DC fighting game and we'll have a cathartic ol' time beating the shit outta the entire DCU with them.

>>83692734
Except batgod.

>>83692934
>The faint, vague hope that at least one of the will be featured in a DC fighting game and we'll have a cathartic ol' time beating the shit outta the entire DCU with them.
Any of those being in Injustice 2 would make me actually want to play it.

>there will never be a DC vs. Capcom
>we'll never get Lady Shiva vs. Chun-Li

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>>83692745

Cass had a little bit of it. You could tell Damion Scott watched a ton of Shaw Brothers and Bruce Lee movies when he did the run.

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>>83693001

>>83689930
I'm not sure what you're talking about exactly. This seems more an issue of genre choice than ability. DC fighting in general rarely deals with fighting techniques leading to chi like super powers. But I'm sure at least Shiva has single handedly fought off large numbers of people before.

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>>83692977
>tfw fist-fighting the Revelation, the Tiger Force at the End of all Things

>>83692934
>>83692690

I'll fully confess the day I see a fully animated or live action fight that involves either three done right I will have the greatest boner.

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>>83692977

I still don't understand why Cassandra was only available on the freaking Android version for the original Injustice.

You put her in the actual game, or Shiva/Dragon. I'd be a happy DC fighting fan. I still can't believe they left all all their freaking best fighters save freaking Batman and Deathstroke in the original. But noooo they have to put Babs in there cause.. "iconic". FUCK ICONIC!

>>83693039
My nigga

I always felt like if Lady Shiva were ever a playable fighter in any fighting game, she'd be more about rushdown, getting all into your opponent's face and maybe she could have a stance system. But she could have a few lunge-type moves that move you across the screen.

>>83693116
My other person of African descent

I NEED to see a live-action Lady Shiva or Cass. There's so much that could be done with that and I'm hopeful we'll see them eventually in the DCEU but I'm not hopeful they'd be in an actually good movie. I've always wanted WB to get a Hong Kong movie director or something and get them to direct a Batman movie, with fight choreography typical of a martial arts film, with Lady Shiva, Bronze Tiger, etc. God, it'd be amazing.

I'd also love to see a proper LoSH movie with Karate Kid, but I really doubt that'd ever happen, since WB seems to hate fun things.

>>83693203

Why I have so much hope for the Bat side of DCEU. Affleck's Batman delivered so much and if he's so beaten cause of whatever happened to Harvey, Barbara, and Jason.

If the rumored Gotham Sirens/BoP movie is true, and Barbara has a mute Asian girl named Cassandra as her aide/messenger who kicks unholy ass. That or Barbara discovers a wee Cassandra who turns out to be this kick ass machine.

But.. I doubt it'll ever happen. It's only a dream. A great dream, but only a dream.

>>83693373
>Why I have so much hope for the Bat side of DCEU.
Batfleck was actually pretty good and they do seem to have a handle on the Batman corner of the DC universe, sure.

But that's another one of my issues. I'm afraid this is going to be yet another example of them focusing on Batman to everyone else's detriment. I want more than just Batman.

That's the first time I've heard of the rumors about Cassandra possibly being in the DCEU though.

>>83689930
>They are among, if not the two best non-meta fighters of the DCU.
that's like being the smartest retard at the special olympics

>>83689930
>Expecting high octane wuxia art in a monthly western comic book

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>>83693203
> I NEED to see a live-action Lady Shiva
They had one in the Birds of Prey Tv Show.

>>83693533
> That's the first time I've heard of the rumors about Cassandra possibly being in the DCEU though.

It's only a wish. A dream. It isn't gonna be a reality.

>>83693616

WE DON'T TALK ABOUT THAT!! WHY MUST YOU MAKE US REMEMBER THAT ABOMINATION?!

>>83693616
Never did watch that one. Should I, just for shits and giggles?

Also, always did feel like Lucy Liu like 10 years ago would've made for a great Lady Shiva. How about Ming-Na?

>>83692527
>2.) She's a minority character.

With the amount of people randomly getting raceswapped/legacied from white to minority, like wally west and power girl, why is 2 a problem.

>>83693772

See Rule #1 because "iconic". The only Asian DC seems to keep trying to shill is Katana.

>>83692734
Karate Kid and Lady Shiva have literally the exact same "power". And Cassandra Cain is just Shiva but better.

>>83694411
>Karate Kid and Lady Shiva have literally the exact same "power".
To be fair, Karate Kid is way, way above Shiva's power. And Cass' too.

Karate Kid is legit DBZ-levels of "broken". This is a dude who can fight pre-Crisis Kryptonians with nothing but bullshit future martial arts.

How does Karnak compare?

>>83692734
I'm pretty sure Felicity could take them both.

>>83690535
Batman already doesn't stand a chance against Karate Kid.

Only extreme Batwank let him fight that one weakened Krate Kid one time. If Kenshiro was in DC he could have the same feats and still have an extended fight with a wanked batman.

>>83693708
Ming-Na is too good at smiling.

>>83690309
Isn't KK kind of leagues ahead of Shiva?

>>83694533
She's good at playing the tough, badass woman though.

>>83689930
Be nice to Karate Kid, he's very talented and he only got Batwanked like once.

>>83694411
>Karate Kid and Lady Shiva have literally the exact same "power"
Shiva knows every single martial art ever, even alien ones, all the way up to the year 3001?

>>83694453
Karnak comes nowhere close.

A better comparison is Mantis who IIRC pressure pointed fucking Thor.

>>83694728
>A better comparison is Mantis who IIRC pressure pointed fucking Thor.
Well then? How do they compare?

>>83694615
Yeah, its like comparing Luke Cage and a very angry hulk.

Yeah they both have super-strength but theres a clear sizable difference in degree.

>>83694743
still inferior. Pre crisis kryptonians >>>> Thor.

I don't think Marvel has a Karate Kid tier person. Just people a bit below him who fit in between KK and Shiva.

Iron Fist for example is quite superior to Shiva and his Iron Fist can shake a Helicarrier but Karate Kid would still wreck him. Same for the other Immortal Weapons.

>>83694728
Do you think Mantis is a better martial artist than Karnak?

IDK it seems like the Marvel martial arts guys have fairly clear niches a lot of the time, like Karnak, Daredevil, Iron Fist all have their own thing. Mantis is only similar to Karnak in that her own learned style of martial arts lets her be superhumanly destructive, but it isn't by the same mechanism as Karnak is.

The overally just-really-great-at-martial-arts guy in Marvel is Shang-Chi. Shang-Chi would get his ass beat by Karate Kid (but it'd be a fight, probably, and maybe Shang-Chi could take a first match or win by surprise) and could probably contest Shiva.

>>83694799
I dunno that I'd put IF over Shiva. He can do more damage but that doesn't mean he wins a 1v1 match.

>>83694842
>The overally just-really-great-at-martial-arts guy in Marvel is Shang-Chi. Shang-Chi would get his ass beat by Karate Kid (but it'd be a fight, probably, and maybe Shang-Chi could take a first match or win by surprise) and could probably contest Shiva.
How about Shang-Chi vs. Richard Dragon?

>>83694866
IMO, if we allow his powers, of course he wins. But if it's just pure martial arts h2h, it's less obvious. I'd put the edge over to Shiva but Danny's no slouch either.

>>83694866
He's at least as good as Cassie while having the Iron Fist.

Cassie with an Iron Fist would wreck Shiva.

>>83694866

With chi-enhancements, I'd put IF well over Shiva and most pure martial artists.

No enhancements, toss-up.

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One of my fave Iron Fist feats is this fight he has with Daredevil

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>>83695232
Danny is taking on a Daredevil out for blood, while trying to perfectly mimic Murdock's fighting style, and he still puts up a fight.

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>>83695288
I wonder what an all out fight between the two would look like, but i wouldn't bet on my boy Matt even though i love him.

Jesus, everything in that video is completely retarded shonen anime trash.

>>83695232
>>83695288
>>83695363
Source? Sorry, more of a DC fan.

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Alright but Karate Kid vs. this bitch. Who wins?

>>83693591
OP here

Hey a man can dream.

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Shiva, Cass, Karate kid X Hokuto No Ken or Baki crossover when? Give me something dammit!

>>83696329
After my DC martial artists x Street Fighter crossover idea. So never. ;_;