Is anyone else having a hard time coming to terms with how strong

>>83612862
It's been well established that MCU Cap is beyond peak human. Hell even 616 Cap sometimes has strayed towards superhuman.

>>83613128

I guess it has been. It just never became obvious until age of ultron i think.

I just feel like it's gone over the top for what the character was supposed to be.

>>83612862
Could he beat Vision and SW?

>>83613199
Super soldiers can do crazy shit. He's not peak human by natural means like batman

>>83613303

Seems likely at this point lol

>>83613336

They CAN do crazy shit. Reflexes, tactics, heroic actions. All preternatural.
But when you're overpowering a guy who can lift 20 tons that gets a little hard to believe

He lifted a motorcyle with three adult women on it over his head in First Avenger. Not in the heat of the moment with adrenaline pumping either, it was a stunt in his stage show.

Movie cap has been well beyond peak human since the start.

>>83613303
I could.

>>83613387

He also outran a car and was hitting dudes hard enough to send them flying over a dozen feet back in TFA.

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Is anyone else having a hard time coming to terms with how strong video game Captain America has become?

He's grapling with Tron Bonne, punching the shit out of Iron man and over powering Spider-man.

What ever happened to "peak human" ?

>>83613303
his reflexes are probably a lot better than the SW and there's no reason you couldn't shoot her to death if you were fast enough or caught her off guard. i wouldn't say he wins every time, but COULD he win? yeah, sure.

vision, though, is largely invulnerable and hasn't been noticably hurt by anything, which will remain the case until he's needed for thanos to prove how powerful he is by tearing off his arm or something.

They've done a pretty good job of keeping a tidy sense of immersion with it. He's a super-soldier and can do super things. The camera angles etc help make said things look less impossible. The running in the tunnel fight in civil war was sloppy though. That broke my immersion for a bit. By contrast, the helicopter scene, arguably more impossible, felt natural because it was shot well and because sploosh.

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>>83613529
She can just make a shield and protect her from everything.
Maybe if he got her off guard and just CQC'd her.

>>83613539
>The camera angles etc help make said things look less impossible

Have to disagree with you there.
Especially the helicopter scene.
He's just now a superhuman strong enough to physically overpower the iron man armor. It's irritating because that's just not who he his

>>83613199
>I just feel like it's gone over the top for what the character was supposed to be.
Not me, I think it's an interesting angle. The implication is peak is now base for Super Soldiers and their peak is therefore something like the old "Strong As 10 Men" descriptor for classic heroes. We're just seeing that applied in a more modern and dynamic way.

I also like that they do a good job of showing his other attributes follow suit. His dexterity, endurance, agility, speed and perceptiveness have all been well utilized in action scenes as well as suspense and plot related scenarios.

I should note that Tony also early in his own series showed adequate intelligence but it was balanced against an unbalanced personality and misfortune so it might not have shined as well. My point is I hope to see similar things come Peter and T'Challa. Brains, brawns, bravery, etc.

Cap beating ironman in CQC seems plausible enough, and you must take into account that as soon as Iron Man plays the "read his combat pattern" card, it's over. He'd have lost without Bucky.
Also, he defeated Spiderman thanks to his superior formal training and experience.
That said, the Cap is pretty damn strong in the MCU, yes. And I love it. It's glorious to see him go. No problem at all.

>>83613336
Batman is the most retarded example of all. Armor would make no difference with sups as sups would hold out against him and no difference against the enemies that beat sups as they would squeeze him like marshmallow on a paper cup. Yet he still get up after being hit by them.

>>83613736

I would have been fine with it if they had started out in the movies with the explicit premise that he is now well beyond what a human is capable of.
Yes, all his abilities are consistent. I just would have like to see that right from the beginning.
I guess it's just jarring to see him performing on a mid level superhuman level with no warning

>>83613128

On top of that, consider that once he became peak human he probably didn't stop maintaining that. Probably worked out quite a bit. It's all too conceivable that he just built up on that strength through natural means.

>>83613765

Yes he would still have lost if he wasn't with bucky.

But i disagree that he beat spidey through superior training. He beat him because he was able TWICE to over power him through brute force.
I mean they JUSt showed spider-man stoping a speeding car dead.

And i do love seeing Cap kicking ass and being awesome, just not when it goes explicitly beyond what he's meant to be able to do

don't look at him like he's a peak human, look at him like he's a peak superhuman

that makes it easier to understand

>>83614010

definitely.
But someone should have said it from the beginning!

>>83613952
You're probably referring to that moment when Cap hurls Spidey with his own webs, right?
I like to think Cap just caught Spidey by surprise. Pete's not known for focusing in a fight so I guess it's consistent with how the character thinks. He probably underestimated the Cap and hence his ass-handin'
Spiderman is still shown to be way stronger, as he easily stops WS's arm with the hand like it was nothing, which is something that Steve struggles to do or even can't do with both of his arms.

>>83614180
>as he easily stops WS's arm with the hand like it was nothing

Exactly.

But no. I just watched it. Spidey webs his arms and they engage in a tug of war. Doesn't happen quick with spidey being caught off guard. He and cap struggle and then cap whips him off his feet.

>>83613581
as he said, if you caught her off guard or were fast enough.

>>83614319
well... you know...
DRAMA
CONFLICT

AMAZING
SPECTACULAR

maybe (just maybe) Cap was only applying a fraction of his strength at first and then put it all in the grill. the sudden pull could have surprised Spidey

I don't know. There's not really a point in over-thinking this stuff. The fight looked awesome, felt awesome and was awesome
I need nothing more

>>83614430

It was generally awesome. I really liked the parts where they displayed skills and abilities that they should have. Black panther was awesome. They even made falcon cool which i didn't think was a thing.

It was just those parts where cap is winning not through superior tactics or skill but just plain being stronger than someone who has previously been shown to be WAY stronger than he is meant to be

>>83612862
On the one hand it diminishes the whole "regular guy that throws punches with the gods" and "if he can do it, you can too" kind of vibe he had, not unlike Batman.

On the other hand it allows other characters to do it like Falcon and Hawkeye becoming the more humane characters. I liked how the older Hawkeye was the recruiter in AoU, and how Falcon is always fighting things that can kill him instantly, just because it's the right thing to do. It helps balance out the characters a bit.

>>83612862
I'm more bothered when powerful characters just stand there and let him punch them.

>>83614180
>>83614319
But Spidey is incredibly powerful and it is likely Bucky is pulling back his punch when he realizes this is a fucking kid. He could have had wrecked Spiderman in Winter Soldier mode.

>>83614974

lol yeah.
I was bothered by the vision being curiously non-participatory for most of the fight

>>83615016

Yeah, because if there's one thing the winter soldier exhibited throughout the rest of the movie it was restraint...

Nah bro

>>83612862
Spider-man never showed up in this continuity yet, stop crying hes not fanwanked to be able to casually throw dozens of tons yet.

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>>83612862
>Whatever happened to peak human
What makes you think a peak human can't do what Cap does?

>>83613523
Also facepunching Shuma-gorath and Dormammu

I'm just glad we're past the AHHH SAVE ME TONY meme.

>>83615055
>WS is a ruthless killer against anyone that isn't Cap
>Bucky didn't want to kill any of the people during the airport fight

Yep he was totally going all out against spiderman in that fight.

>>83614947
I never got that vibe from Cap.

>>83615063

Did you miss the part where he stopped a speeding car dead with almost no space to spare between him and a bus?

>>83615079

Well let's see. Spider-man can lift around 20 tons. Peak human is close to one ton
Cap can physically overwhelm the iron man armor, armor which previously has been show to be able to go toe to toe with thor and the hulk.

So no, that's not peak human level

>>83615205
Iron man in his normal armor has never gone toe to toe with the hulk in the MCU. He was tossed around by Thor too until he got supercharged into 400% output, and even then it was a really short battle that stopped before either got anything more than a scratch.

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>>83615205
How do you know? Peak Humanity is an abstract concept.
And a guy with a lesser Super soldier was able to keep Hulk busy for a minute.
Especially when overwhelming the armor is typically a matter of technique vs. Raw Power.

>>83615205
>>83615359
I'd say Hulk was stronger than the Hulk Buster. It was tearing the armor appart and would have got to Tony eventually
If he got knocked out it's because he just stopped wanting to fight and got sucker punched

>>83615359

He was trading punches with thor. Even if you want to characterize that fight as getting "tossed around" the iron man armor is still on a level WAY beyond what could be considered peak human

>>83612862
He's peak human as in what humans could be with selected evolution, not peak human like Batman. Cap doesn't even have to work out to maintain it all either. I'm convinced this "peak human" misunderstanding only comes from people that've heard what his powers should be from the internet instead of comics or the movies themselves.

>>83613387
Eh, stage shows are hardly conclusive. It probably wasn't a real motorcycle.

You can bullshit the "Peak Humanity" concept, because who's to say any human alive now is close to "peak"? Who says that in 400 years they don't invent a martial art that allows regular Joes to jump 2 meters in the air with no discernable difference in body density/anatomy.

All "peak human" can really mean is that no other human should be able to do something better than cap, by definition.

>>83615452

nah, they were pretty much tackling each other around
MCU Thor would smash the fuck out of Iron Man

>>83613657
>not who he is

Ultimates Cap was keeping up with his version of the Hulk. They basically gave movie Cap 616's heart and Ultimate Cap's body.

Besides, I'm sure someone can find scans of silver age Cap pulling off bullshit a "peak human' shouldn't be able to do.

>>83615452
You should watch that scene again, Thor can damage Iron Man with his fingers.

Iron Man can be strong, but his suit doesn't magically resist physics. Cap's punches don't damage the suit, just keep it off balance.

>>83615425

>bringing up a fight in which cap fights spider-man even wearing the iron spider armor

lol come on man. 20 times stronger than normal human, 40 times faster.
That was pure wanking.
But it's totally legit because like "cap's fighting style is just one long move".
That's essentially on the level of batman dodging the omega beams.
Not as bad as that, but approaching it

It's not that abstract. It's about 1200 pounds. This is known.

>>83615469

Nah man. In the comics he can perform on a level that is still within the realm of possibility for a human. And honestly a bit beyond that which is fine.
He's generally shown to be able to lift between 1200mnd 1400 pouns which is goddamn impressive
The problem comes when he starts reaching mid level superhuman status

>>83614947
>Batman is a man throwing down with gods

I really wish this meme will die. A normal man cannot kung-fu a room of armed thugs into submission and then go home to his paramilitary man-cave. Superman is more like a normal man than Batman. At least Superman has a 9-5 job and a boss and a social life that isn't just a cover for vigilante activities.

>>83615528

I'm glad i never witnessed that outrage lol
But as far as im concerned the ultimate universe can eat my dick just as a general rule

>>83615553

Oh i know he starts crushing the metal. But in terms of the power that suit can generate it's enough to fight thor. At least for a while.

So i have a hard time buying that bate handed captain america can overwhelm iron man

>his suit doesn't magically resist physic

No, but to a pretty large fucking degree it does. Recall that it can take a hit from a tank shell with nothing but scratched paint

>>83615125
THIS

I like Cap having his power levels pumped up. It helps separate him from Batman. He can still do Kirby-era inspired brawls with goons where he shows off his athleticism and super-gynamstic skills but he can crank up the muscle for the FUCK YEAH moments.

I fucking loved it when he curled the helicopter. I don't think even Ultimates Cap was this strong, and It's nice to see a cape hero that isn't watered down for the movies.

>>83615749

Makes you wonder why he had so much trouble with that bald fucker on the boat in winter soldier.

seems like that guy should have had powdered bones within a few hits

>>83613523
There was a 3D Marvel vs Capcom?

>>83615472
This.

Keep in mind they exist in a comic book universe where humanity is the product of Alien Gods. Comic humans are very different from regular humans.

>>83615564
How is this known? 1200 lbs in what sense? Is that force of a punch, a squat, benchpress, what? But my point is people are bitching like Cap's powerlevels in the movies are something new when Peak Human in comics was always indistinguishable from Superhuman especially with his skills. Which makes sense since Peak Human ability is something we can never actually achieve therefore it's pretty much abstract and artists always used it to just make characters do amazing shit.

>>83615667
Ultimates Cap dropped a tank on Ultimates Hulk and kicked him in the balls.

To be fair this was Ultimates Hulk, which was lightyears weaker than 616 Hulk, and even then Cap didn't beat him, just hold his own.

>Ultimates universe can eat my dick
Oh, I agree. It died screaming under the weight of its own edge. Next time they want to modernize everyone's origins they should hire Busiek instead of Millar. Busiek understands that "real" heroes don't have to be asshole government shills.

>>83615205
>Well let's see. Spider-man can lift around 20 tons. Peak human is close to one ton

He surprised Spider-Man with a burst of strength and capitalized on it, Spider-Man's still a fair bit stronger. Cap is at a lower level physically than Spider-Man, but Spider-Man doesn't know how to use his abilities to his fullest, unlike Cap.

>Cap can physically overwhelm the iron man armor, armor which previously has been show to be able to go toe to toe with thor and the hulk.

He physically overwhelmed Tony, not the armor, simply because Tony fucking sucks at fighting and heavily relies on his tech to do the lifting, that's exactly why he was getting knocked around until FRIDAY essentially took over and turned the fight around.

Also, Thor and Hulk would buttfuck Tony six ways to Sunday if the fight ever got serious. Tony is more powerful than the weaker members of the team, and while he can kind of hang with the heavy hitters, he's still below them.

>So no, that's not peak human level

There's no such thing as peak human, it can be anything the writers bullshit it to be.

>>83615870

bench press.
But no. In the comics his strength level never goes much beyond what you can expect from a human.
I mean consider the civial war in the comics. He gets his shit kicked in by iron man because (surprise) the iron man armor is just WAY more powerful than the maximum human potential.

So you know, not strong enough to stop iron man mid flight with one hand

>>83615888

lol well said

This is silly. Iron man was going SUPER easy on cap the entire time. Like super easy, he just asked his AI to kick Caps ass and then it did.

At any time that could have happened but Tony's friendhsip and respect for cap kept gettin in the way. Cap shines b/c he is not as phsycologically interrupted as the other heroes.

That is b/c he survived the war and is pretty sane. That is why he always has the edge, he thinks clearly, and always without trying too.

>>83615936

>He surprised Spider-Man with a burst of strength

No. He didn't. It was a slow pull during which captain america eventually proves stronger. Trust me dude, i JUST watched the movie.
I would have been ok with cap out fighting him through skill. But twice he gets the better of spider man by simply being stronger.

>Tony fucking sucks at fighting

He really doesn't. He's learned since he started as ron man. Even if this movie he disarms a gunman at close range. Yeah he's not nearly as good as cap. Very few people are.

The fact remains that even in the movies the iron man armor is shown to be able to engage enemies that can match blows with the hulk.

>>83615797
>Makes you wonder why he had so much trouble with that bald fucker on the boat in winter soldier.

He didn't, Batroc just caught him off guard and was only distinguished in that he didn't get bodied offhand like nothing. The second he took the helmet off was the second that Batroc realized how utterly fucked he was against him.

A kid taking swings at you means you'll take some love taps if you're caught unaware, but you're still more than capable of laughing off the hits and chokeslamming the shit when you're done humoring them.

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>>83616023
And the armor has predetermined everything he'll do before he can do it.
IT did the same thing to Pete.
and earlier in the thread he's shown benching 1100 lbs as exercise.

>>83614319
Isn't that when Cap does that big leaping spin thing? That's not him overpowering Spidey, that's him applying his strength in a more mechanically advantageous way to knock him off his feet.

The very fact that he had to do that in order to knock Spiderman down shows that Cap is weaker, just smarter and more experienced.

>>83614319
He outmaneuvered an inexperienced Spider-Man, he didn't overpower him.
You can see Cap struggle to move his arms, then realize he's outclassed in strength so used his unrestrained legs to fling him.

>>83616023
>>83615564
Where are you getting this 1200 number?

>>83615055
Yes? He could have killed the german soldiers in Budapest (Bucharest? I forget which) in about 5 seconds flat but instead fought his way out without a single casualty. The only potentially lethal takedown he used was a single guy he threw down the stairwell and that was only when he knew Steve was in position to catch him.

>>83616193

>No. He didn't. It was a slow pull during which captain america eventually proves stronger. Trust me dude, i JUST watched the movie.

I only remember Cap doing a flip spin thing that snatched Spider-Man off the ground into his kick and when Spider-Man tried swing kick into him after gaining higher ground and getting kicked into an airplane boarding tunnel. I don't think those are examples of Cap simply outmuscling Spider-Man, just outmaneuvering and outfighting him due to sheer skill.

>He really doesn't. He's learned since he started as Iron man. Even if this movie he disarms a gunman at close range. Yeah he's not nearly as good as cap. Very few people are.

He removes the slide off of Bucky's gun with the help of his gauntlet and gets a punch in after he essentially flashbanged Bucky seconds beforehand, that was about it.

Impressive in that he didn't die immediately, but he's still not a good fighter.

>>83612862
peak human could mean that the super soldier serum turned cap into the pinnacle of what a human could become at natural peak limits. Or peak human could mean that the serum turned cap into the strongest, fastest, most durable example of what the human body's frame could tolerate without a breakdown.

Clear difference between the two. Cap's been the latter one ever since the Power Broker juiced him during the Unlimited Wrestling Federation storyline in the 80's. Even though he 'died' during the Onslaught storyline and was returned via Franklin Richards' pocket universe, his physical status was the same as it was prior to his 'death' as Franklin didn't fuck up anyone else's abilities. Cap kept this power level from the 80's, through Onslaught, up until he was killed in Civil War, and beyond. Next question?

>>83616193
>>83616588
That's not using strength as much as it is using leverage and mass. I think what people keep forgetting is that Captain America is probably twice as heavy as Spider-Man. If Spider-Man is not anchoring himself to the ground with his wall-crawling ability, someone twice as heavy as him (and strong enough to manipulate that much weight) is going to throw him around, no matter what. It's the same reason why Thor was able to stop the Hulk's downward slam with relative ease aboard the helicarrier. He doesn't need to be stronger than the Hulk, just strong enough to support Hulk's weight.

>>83612862
He never overpowered Spider-Man. He used his whole body to utilize physics against Spidey to pull Spidey's body forward.

Well he works out nonstop during his free time, so he only gets stronger as time goes by. He's not sitting around getting drunk or watching tv when he's not "working".