Why do comic fight scenes look so stiff, static, and awkward

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Honestly?

I think its the use of motion lines.

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>>83446957

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>>83446987
Sometimes they lack the willingness or ability to 'break' the design and anatomy a little to create a sense of force, impact, speed, and action.

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>>83446957
agree, I have yet to see a fight scene in comics as fluid and dynamic as the one in this chapter

http://mangasee.co/manga/?series=Berserk&chapter=179&index=2

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>>83447036

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>>83447052

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>>83447023
Maybe some artist just never learned to smear their lines intentionally... Or the division between pencils and inking/coloring leads to "Make this easier to color in later" drawings.

This one specifically is a still... Like the whole point is to show the weight or size of the battle. There are PLENTY of other great comic books that also have those fluid fight scenes...

>>83447129
To be fair Alex Ross never does depict action all that well even outside of this panel. It's just not his strength.

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I prefer Alex Ross as a cover artist than one who draws the entire comic desu.

>>83447069
I can barely tell what's going on in this.

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Seems, ultimately, american books try to be more photo realistic than fanciful and as a result...

You get action pages that look like this one.

>>83445617
Comic fight scenes really are pretty terrible

>>83447281
A mutant kingpin that had multiple heads and multiple arm sprouting from his massive torso would actually be a pretty freaky-cool design.

Like some sort of AU where everything has gone nuclear post-apocalyptic.
The Kingpins?

>>83447281
And yet a comic like Eden: IAEW looks better on a technical rendering level and has really fucking dynamic action scenes as well.

300+ replies here we go

>it's a west vs east thread
here we go again

I feel like Ross is a poor example to use, because he specifically works in a more photorealistic, "painter" style that by design won't have much of the stretching, blurring, etc. that you see more in manga.

>>83447473
ON YOUR OWN

GOING DOWN THE ONLY ROAD YOU'VE EVER KNOWN!

>>83447036
>>83447052
>>83447069
To me this honestly looks messy. And berserk is on of the better mangawhen bit comes to clear action. But nothing about those pages looks like a fight to me. Just a series of line filled poses and clashes.

>>83447447
Don't post a page or nothin'.

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Dragonball had amazing action desu

http://mangasee.co/manga/?series=DragonBall&chapter=201&index=1

>>83447203
Do you also prefer your meat cooked as opposed to raw?

>>83445617
Look up legend of luthor strode, if u want some awesome action sequences.

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I think the design ethos for both are as follows.

American Books - Sell the Impact
Japanese Books - Sell the Motion

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>>83447608

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>>83447627
See? Its all about how hard they hit, not how often or how they went about getting the hit in.

>>83447533
didn't she get raped hard?

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>>83447576
Thanks for the suggestion m8

>>83447555
I guess. I mean his covers for astro city were superb but I wouldn't like if he drew the entire comic, haven't read marvels yet though.

>>83447669
Who's she?

>>83447036
>LINESLINESLINESLINESLINES
>so fluid and dynamic
Take your shit taste elsewhere, weeb.

>>83447129
>There are PLENTY of other great comic books that also have those fluid fight scenes...
Denys Cowan's work on The Question immediately comes to mind. I'm sure there have been plenty of other great action artists, but it's not something I tend to keep in mind, since action is often ultimately not as important as everything else.

>>83447669
She got fucked up by King Torture pretty bad yeah, don't remember if she got raped though. She was a cool character though.

>>83447669
Okay now granted I haven't seen ALL the show, but I don't REMEMBER her getting raped. Like, beaten up and captured a couple of times I think but...

>>83447706
Flamenco Girl from Samurai Flamenco

>>83445617
>Cherrypicking: The Thread
Thanks OP, you stupid faggot.

>>83445617
Because that's Alex Ross' art. For all his greatness, he displays zero sense of motion or kineticism between panels.

>>83447069
Yeah, this looks awful. It looks like two people spamming in Street Fighter.

>>83447875
post a more well drawn comic action scene

>>83447069

I'm not trying to shit on manga but do you seriously think that is a good example of dynamism ?

I think action in manga can sometimes bog down the pace of the stories. I'm reading seven deadly sins, and the character interactions and plot points are more interesting than the well drawn but boring fighting.

No speedlines/blur effects.

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>>83447473
this is like the third one today?

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>>83448171
wrong picture

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Here's one of my favorite one-page action scenes from Cowan's Question. Actions are simple and clear, with a well defined sense of motion. You can see exactly how Question took these chumps out in like 3 moves.

>>83448059
Deadly Sins is shonen. The action is what the primary audience is there for.

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Not a "fighting" action scene but Slam Dunk was great.

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im not even sure if this even contributes to the east's argument but this was a really fucking good fight

>>83447608
>American Books - Sell the Impact

Read One Piece. Oda makes you feel every punch.

>>83447473

>tfw i always hope these threads are just full of awesome fights from East and West
>Is always just shitposting

>>83445617
DECOMPRESSED STORYTELLING
E
C
O
M
P
R
E
S
S
E
D

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>>83448435
Luffy is based like that. That scene when he punched a celestial dragon was awesome.

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I have yet to see a fight scene in either comics or manga as engaging as Punisher against Barracuda from Ennis' Max. I love how it's less about punching and kicking and more about creativity and utilizing the environment to defeat a larger opponent.

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>>83448549

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>>83448423
I used to not like JoJo's art, but it grew on me a lot recently. It's one of the few manga that I think would benefit from being colored, seeing Araki collab with Gucci solidified that in my mind.

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>>83448571

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>>83448591

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>>83448605

>>83447036
>>83447052
>>83447069
That looks like absolute dogshit.

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>>83448619

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>>83448642

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you need speed lines

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>>83448663

>>83448636
sorry for your shit taste m8

>>83448704
Fuck off weeb thats such bad art

>>83448668
No you need to fucking crazy like Tradd Moore

>>83448514
The scene where here punched through Don Krieg's spiked cape made me feel it in my fist.

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>>83448741
>>83448636
>hating on Berserk

We've reached the apex of trolling.

>>83448066
Can someone please storytime this?

>>83448238
True, I'm impressed by the art during those moments, although plot wise they tend to be constantly on a big scale. I felt his previous Bancho manga scaled the stakes in a fairly gradual level that made sense.

>>83448668
Honestly, it's more the decompressed nature of the fights (usually chapters long while in the west they are only a few panels or pages), plus the way the fights convays motion when it comes to stances (in the west fights are attacks then return to an action stance then new attack, in the east it's a series of continuos strikes that imply contant motion) plus whole pages like >>83448514 that just show a reaction and look fucking awesome.

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>>83448777
It's not trolling. Why don't you read some comics instead of magna so you learn what good art is?

>>83448777
Even if you don't like Berserk as a story or whatever, hating on the art is just retarded.

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>>83448514
>>83448757
Yeah, this shit

>>83448847
This >>83448514 >>83448584
Is awful weeb shit. Overstylized pretty boy characters making ridiculous faces and stupid over exaggerated attacks.

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>>83447069
Honestly this isn't a great example of a manga since it's naturally chaotic.

Something like Tekken Chimni is a bit more clear.

>>83447036
Really bad example.

These are way better >>83446957
You could do better with Berserk.

>>83447656
That honestly doesn't look very hard, but that has to do with the tone of the scene more than anything.

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>>83448435
I felt this one.

>>83448777
shit buttbaby i'm so sorry someone insulted your precious berzerk but how about you deal with it like a man instead of crying? I like Berzerk but people like you almost make me ashamed of it.

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>>83448749
that's true

>>83447097
I want to leram how to smear the lines but it is a shitty thing to do with a tablet.

>>83448893
I think this is actually even less clear.

Are they just twirling around in that same pose, like a standoff? Or is something actually happening here?

If it is just a standoff, it's kinda silly to make it look like they're dancing in a circle so fucking fast.

>>83448935
>continuing to shit on Berserk

Okay, NOW this is the apex of trolling.

>>83447069
I don't know what's going on here.

>>83448879
What is this and where can I get more?

>>83449004
That's your fault.

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>>83448777
I could never get into Berserk.

What now, fâm?

>>83449004
Exactly. Weeb shits could take a lesson from Quitely or Burnham on not over stylizing.

>>83448990
He's not even shitting on beserk or even really the art per se, just that that specific action sequence is bad, or cluttered, busy, and hard to follow.

You're just being way over sensitive.

>>83448966
Is it less clear? I actually read the manga so maybe that helps, but
>Are they just twirling around in that same pose, like a standoff?

You're already getting it, so it works doesn't it?

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>>83448777
Why don't we all just use a better example of berserk

>>83449047
well, I had to stop and try to parse it to come to that conclusion, because like I said, it feels silly for a standoff, tensiony kind of scenario to involve twirling around really fast.

>>83448068
Holly shit Abe, what the hell?

Transparent bait thread?

This is the kind of thing that depends near exclusively on the artist. And you knew this OP. You could have posted Queitly or Williams, or some other artist often noted for their grasp of dynamic motion.

But no. You had to start your troll thread with Alex Ross.

>>83447069
There's too much going on, but it's still pretty good.

iturazkondea

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>>83449080
>implying the Zodd fight at the hill of swords is not the best fight in the entire series

Only fight that comes close to it is the Rosine fight, and it's not cause of the pure action but cause of Guts' development and strategy during it.

Baki action scenes >>>> Berserk action scenes
Deal with it, Berserkfags.

>>83449080
This one is much better in a "communicating details of what's happening" way, but I don't feel Guts' stance here really works with the flow of motion, it looks kind of awkward.

Despite the action on the giant crocodiles looking very good, Guts' himself looks stiff and static. The speedlines on the sword also imply a motion opposite of what it's actually doing.

>>83445617
As someone who primarily reads manga, that's not a bad example of dynamicness at all. The subtle details and posing really lend towards the power of the motions, a lot like how Jojo works often.


In general, it depends on the artist. A lot of house style comics ain't that hot on fighting, whereas good action is expected in japan.

>>83447036
>>83447052
>>83447069
This doesn't look fluid. it looks messy,

>>83449149
If that Zod fight up above is the one you're talking about then I hope it's not the best in the series. It's drawn well but there's so much shit going on you can barely tell whats happening. I mean what the fuck is going on in the bottom panel on this page >>83447069
. .

>>83448435
>>83448514
>>83448883
>>83448932

There's wonderful exceptions to every rule.

>>83449243
I dunno about you, but whenever i deal with fluids it tends to get kinda messy.

>>83449080
Because no matter how good it's art gets, Berserk is still boring?

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Why, /co/?
Why?

>>83449206
>it looks kind of awkward.
He whole fighting style is awkward with the Dragon Slayer. He is just big lumbering swings that leave him open to attacks.

>>83449267
nothing else going on

>>83448885
>Talking shit about Steel Ball Run

What a faggot

>>83449206
Makes sense to me. The sword is so big his entire footing is sliding with the swing.

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>>83447036
I gotchu senpai

>>83449248
m8 that's probably the easiest panel to "get", I don't know why people are having such a hard time following this kek. Guts simply blocked zodd's attack who overextended and he tried to punish him.

>>83447896
Not him but

>>83448549
>>83448571
>>83448591
>>83448605
>>83448619
>>83448642
>>83448663
>>83448689

That panels of Berserk have só much lines and blur tgatbyoubarebabfagybfaghotbhshsjmd can barely see the actions and turn all into a mess.

Those pages of Punisher pass much more impact and are much more brutal, while showing the effects of the battle by body language.

>>83449149
This page looks much better than the others Beserk examples I think. The other ones have great flashy motions that don't communicate well (The first 3 page one in this thread at some point just has some twirling and non-descript blade clashing).

But this one flows well, is clear, fits the tone, and all the speed lines reinforce what's happening rather than carrying the action entirely or being unintuitive.

All this despite the art itself being not as good as the other Beserk pages, to further clarify the difference.

>>83445617
Use of legs.

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Tsugumomo and OPM are pretty good

>>83449267
Because Berserk is SHIT and I won't stop until everyone knows it.

>>83449281
>>83449322
I would expect the heft of the sword to be clearer then, it looks like he's barely swung it, despite the powerful effect it has. Maybe his arms to be further back and his torso turned more afterward.

>>83449206
He's swinging a giant hunk of iron that's taller than he is. His stance is not going to be 'normal'

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>ITT idiots who can't read action unless it's absolutely clear as day spelled out for them and holding their hand

I bet this is good action too, right?

>>83449322
The blade's still moving, it's clearly midswing.

>>83448663
>FUCKY

I never got that before, but that's actually really funny.

>>83449390
>>83449479

replied wrong.

>>83449472
What can I say? I'm a story guy. How pretty or "fluid" the art may be doesn't impress me. I read comics for the story.

I feel like a lot of manga focuses a lot on consistent motion and positioning, honestly.

In a comic, an action scene is normally all over the place. The character might be punching his foe in one panel, then getting kicked through a wall in the next, while in manga is much more slower and planned. There's more attention to small details instead of a more abstract representation. I feel like a lot of big2 comic fights feel like a "best punches highlights", while in a manga you'll have the entire, slow sequenced fight.

I'm generalizing a lot tho.

>>83449377

>Tsugumomo

It still baffles me that such a wonderful manga is overlooked for no fucking reason.

>>83449519
Same, well I mean I love action if it's properly built up and we have a reason to care for the fight and as long as the fight doesn't drag I guess. But a well done action scene is always welcome.

>>83449519
>I'm a story guy.

Evidently not, because you're too stupid to understand that a comic can have BOTH. Too stupid to understand that as a visual medium the art is the most important factor in communicating said story.

>>83449472
Better than Berserk and worse than that Punisher fight posted upthread.

Sorry weeb. Berserk just really fucking sucks and the fact that it's held up as a gold standard is fucking shameful for y'all.

>>83448423
yo where's the new chapter, can't find it

>>83449655
You're not even trying anymore.

>>83449639
Awesome art in a comic - and neither awesome animation in cartoons - can really make up for a shitty story. In fact, the opposite happens more often: a good, well written story saving a work with mediocre-to-bad art/animation.

>>83449704
I'm sorry that my opinions are so much better than yours that your ass is flaring up bright red like I fucked it with a salt rod, anon.

>>83449624
>>83449519
You guys know that the point of comic books is the visuals, right? That without the pictures, it'd just be a book, right?

>>83449731
And you know that the point of comic books is telling a story, right? That, without the plot, it'd just be an art album, right?

>>83449731
I didn't say I didn't like action what the hell, I just hate when action drags out. I prefer the adventure aspect of one piece and the fights DO drag at times. I mean one of my favorite manga is All rounder meguru and that's an mma series.

>>83449611
I agree with you. In big2 comics, you're expected to make a lot of assumptions about what happens between some seemingly disjointed panels, which can make the action feel sort of broad and boring.

In manga, they generally take the time to show you how they're going from motion to motion.

It's sort of like the difference between storyboards for live action and storyboards for animation. In animation, you're suppose to show as much of the actual movement as you can. In live action, you generally just show the important shots as opposed to the action.

>>83448885
You should read Steel Ball Run

>>83449716
>cannot* really make up

>>83449750
And you know that without the art and visuals communicating that story, it's just a book, right? You know that comic books are visual storytelling, right?

>>83449750
The point is for the visuals to tell the story

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>>83449726
You're still not trying. It's disappointing. Come back after you've had some sleep.

>>83449821
>>83449846
He's just being obtuse. Anyone who honestly tries to argue that story trumps art in comic books is just trying to shitpost.

These threads always turn into a shit show. In general it's because manga has more decompression allowing the artist to devote more page space to display the motion of the object. This is also a result of dealing with only black and white comics. It's easier to clutter up the page and make things harder to understand with only black lines, so blank backgrounds and clear outlines or use of speed lines make it easier to focus on the action. Most shoenen that involve characters throwing energy beams at each other fall to this weakness, with things looking cluttered and weightless (Toriyama is actually a master at drawing energy beams and doesn't have this flaw in his art style). Western comics for a long time were less decompressed (though not if Bendis has anything to say about it). So a punch would require one or two panels to convey instead of five or six. Some times this makes the art look static or weak. Speed lines are still actually used well by some, Jack Kirby being a great example. Other times just good panel timing can make it enjoyable, like anytime Hellboy wallops a monster. Lastly masterful coloring can add emphasis to action, one of the best examples being the original Killing Joke. So basically bad manga> bad comics but good manga= good comics as far as displaying motion is concerned.

>>83447943
Why you fighting, Franklin?

>>83449889
>So basically bad manga> bad comics but good manga= good comics as far as displaying motion is concerned.

No. I will never accept that. Fuck off and fuck you, you fucking weeb. Take your berserk and one piece and go back to /a/ with the rest of the shit art.

>>83449889
Agree about Toriyama, he's a master at depicting action scenes. It's a shame that dreadful anime is more known than the manga.

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>>83449790

Exactly.

A lot of position too, like the spatial feel of the scene, is much more consistent in manga usually.

Of course, a lot of western comics do this too, and a lot of manga doesn't, I'm just generalizing.

Anyways, I dont think one is necessarily better than the other, either. My favorite artist for action scenes is probably Mignola, he really knows how to balance it out. Sometimes he'll do the broad kirbyesque COOL PUNCHES thing, and sometimes he'll do a more detailed, scripted sequence like you said.

>>83449927
Nah nigga you know I'm right. You are just letting petty differences prevent you from actually enjoying the full scope of the comic medium.

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>>83450017
Even still, I think he's outclassed by his biggest fan.

>>83449889

Agreed with everything, except the bad manga > bad comics part.

I'd personally prefer to read a bad compressed fight scene than a bad drawn out one.

Fucking Attack on Titan comes to mind. I never wanted to unread something as much as when I read that piece of gargabe.

>>83450178
>Agreed with everything, except the bad manga > bad comics part.

I dunno. Hunter x Hunter has some pretty well done action, even when Togashi is just scribbling.

>>83450154

What the fuck is even happening on that page.

A lot of manga splashes will make you actually have to stop and go "wait, what is happening here... oh, alright." and that breaks up the flow of the read.

>inb4 hurr u cant read action

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I always felt like manga artists had this need to put as much shit in each panel of a fight. So often its like they wanna cram nineteen moves in a single image instead of just letting each moment speak for itself and nit having every fight be so drawn out

>>83450209

But Hunter x Hunter is good.

>>83450258

You just described literally the opposite of how it actually is.

Comics fight scenes are MUCH more compressed than any manga I've ever read.

>>83450258
Posting from that run of Moon Knight isn't even fair though.
The action from those Ellis books was so good.

>>83450258
Ellis' Moon Knight was complete garbage, even worse than Bendis' somehow. I hope someone retcons it one day.

>>83450221
There's no "oh, alright" moment for me. I still don't know what the fuck is happening in that page.

>>83450221
>>83450221
>What the fuck is even happening on that page.

You'd have to see the previous page. The giant, they get all tangled up in a way so that he only has one leg to stand on. Sanji kicks his leg, which sends him flipping over.

He then crashes into the side of the building.

>>83450308
No they're just shorter. The amount if shit put in there is way heavier in manga. Which is how you end up with those panels showing three or four different after images to represent different moves instead of just having one uncluttered thing happen.

>>83445617
Well, with Alex Ross his photorealistic style makes his art look like, well, photos. Or statues.

Though I think it works with his superhero art, it really makes the characters look legendary.

Otherwise, there are a lot of dynamic fight scenes in comic books.

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>>83450327
Nah. Six of the best cape comics written in years.

>>83449885
Anyone who honestly tries to argue that one trumps another is an idiot and needs to shut up.
Horrible story can't be salvaged by good art. Mediocre story can.
Horrible art can't be salvaged by a good story. Mediocre art can.

>>83450422
Yeah, yeah, and The Expendables is the best movie made in years too.

>>83450438
Stay mad, faggot.

>>83450422

why does that pistol shoot an entire rifle bullet cartridge

>>83450540
Because Ellis is an idiot.
Whose process of writing that shit run was simply "make it look cool for teenagers".
Entire run is just shitty one-liners, terrible action scenes and mediocre retreads of Khonshu and split personality stuff which was done better by any other writer.

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>>83449042
Speaking of Quitely, I remember really liking his fight scenes in Morrison's Batman and Robin

>>83450593

Ellis didn't draw that, you retard.

>>83450603
Damien having enough strength to throw seven feet tall mutants will never not bug me.

>>83450623
He wrote the script. I bet it was his idea for a bullet to look like shit, because Shalvey drew actually good bullets before.

>>83450482
Faggot or not, he's right, and you're wrong, so wipe your tears away and get on with life.

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>>83450438
>Horrible art can't be salvaged by a good story
say that to my face not online motherfucker see what happens

pic related

>>83450670
>I bet it was his idea for a bullet to look like shit

this is some next level hate, man

>>83445617
Sorry, but most Manga is an unintelligible mess... What you call stiff or static, I call clarity....

>>83450739
I don't know, anon. I would never read an adaptation of, say. Brothers Karamazov if it had art like War Machine MAX or Greg Land.

>>83450755
Lazy trolling

>>83448840
Morrisonfag disregard.

>>83450831
Honest opinion.
Fuck off faggot

>>83445617
That is cherrypicking at its finest OP, I mean Ross isn't usually good at showing motion or anything like that, his action scenes were always terrible but is not like people read his books for that aspect of his art.

>>83448336
Inoue is just a beast, motherfucker should be chained in a room so he can shit out more vagabond and real chapters and maybe Slam Dunk 2.

That final match in Slam dunk was holy fuck worthy and it lasted like 50 chapters or something.

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>>83451113
You just don't get this decompressed fluidity and dynamic motion

>>83447036
>>83447052
>>83447069
This really is better at conveying kinetic motion but it also looks fucking messy as hell. It's really hard to tell what's going on.

>>83450626
I mean he just used his body as a spring to kick that guy in the chest.

>>83450603
Now THIS is a good fight scene.

>>83451219
>decompressed fluidity and dynamic motion
Sure....whatever you say, dude....

>>83449378
You are just salty that boat namek took years to end.

>>83451306
He's like, 7.

>>83450603
what is going on here?
is batman flying?
why are mutants falling over?

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>>83450603
My nigga.

>>83451249
I'm not sure what's hard to get m8? Personally I think it's drawn perfectly, they have after images cause they are literally moving faster than the eye can see (rickert says it in the chapter), but also I feel you really get a sense of weight with the dragon slayer. Guts isn't just swinging it around like he would a regular longsword. It's cumbersome and unwieldy and he patiently waits for the right moment to parry and strike.

>>83451219
Is Negima that good? I always wrote it off cause of the premise.

>>83450540
>>83450593
Most comic artists don't actually know how guns work.

>>83451219
Top panel is good.

After that it's just "woah dude's fast" incomprehensible speed lines.

>>83451378
You can see him hitting them in the second panel.

>>83451405
That's such a fun idea to put in a comic. Gotta love creative artists, regardless of origin.

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>>83450258
>that entire issue of Mr. Knight going into a building and kicking the ass of everybody inside
That shit was the best.

>>83448885
>boo hoo its too much for my eyes to handle

>>83451249
I don't even think it's better at conveying kinetic motion, man. A few well placed, uncluttered images-- That is to say, the very notion of minimalism-- will always be better than MUH SPEED LINES. If art fails to communicate what it was made to, *art fails*. I'm sorry your art fails, anon.

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>>83451555

>>83448793
Do it then queer

>>83451219
Looks exactly like shit art to me, fucking weird

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>>83451569
Just a joy of an issue from first to last page

I think this is the best capeshit fight of the last years

sorry for the music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SN1EN_jwxdo

>>83451973
dat music tho, anon plz.

While we're on the subject of xmen vs avengers, anyone wish we could see live action avengers vs xmen, shit would be cash.

>>83447036
>>83447052
>>83447069
The Darkseid and Orion fight in Simonson's run is probably better than this.

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>>83445617
Because you touch yourself at night.

>>83451405
i wanna drop kick anyone who says quitely is a bad artist because of the faces

>>83448840
>what good art is?
definitely not that

>>83447170
This is probably a bait thread anyway

>>83452225
Wait, did Simonson do a run that wasn't on Mighty Thor? I fucking loved his Thor run, but I'm pretty damn ignorant of the medium before the 90's otherwise.

>>83445617
>It's another /a/ tries to prove they're better than /co/ thread
If you have these daily, OP. You just look desperate.

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i hate it when two guys float in the air and pretend to punch each other

when did this shit become a substitute for actual fight choreography

>>83448757
>>83448883
It looks painful, but keep in mind, spikes will tear apart normal flesh and bone but Luffy's stretches around it, so while it will pierce deep it will leave a needle thin wound.

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>>83447036
>>83447052
>>83447069
Being honest looks awful for me and I feel the artist took a lot of effort to make something unreadable.
It's pretty confusing for somebody that doesn't read japanese comics.

I don't know much abou fighting comics in general but this is simple and I like it.

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>>83454861

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>>83454875

>>83445617
comics are in full color

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>>83454895

>>83454840
I think a lot of manga is too cluttered but there is something wrong with you if you think that specific sequence is "unreadable".

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>>83454930

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>>83454962

>>83454942
I really don't get why people have such a hard time following it desu. It looks fine to me, maybe you have to be more read in manga? I wonder if there's like a scott mccloud understanding comics equivalent written by a mangaka.

>>83449011
Called Blue Blazes. About a guys experience going to an art school in japan in the 80s. Real good, only 11 episodes.

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this one is a classic

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>>83455069
Forgot this dude's name, but he's basically 'Not-Frank Quitely'. Very similar art style and I find him to be very good at action choreography as well.

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>>83455353

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>>83455376

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Air Gear had some fights that got me seriously fucking hyped more than comic fights ever did and that was a manga about futuristic rollerblade gangs.

>>83453567
>Wait, did Simonson do a run that wasn't on Mighty Thor?

Oh yeah, tons.
He did a Manhunter run, a run on Orion that is generally seen as the best since Kirby's up to that point, he and his wife redeemed X-Factor, and pretty lackluster Avengers and Fantastic Four runs.