Did anyone besides me genuinely enjoy these despite their problems?

>>83015823
I enjoyed BvS more than Man of Steel. It moved at a much brisker pace.

>>83015823
The only parts I enjoyed were the Batman scenes. When he wasn't murdering people.

In a world of like eight billion people you were the only person to enjoy both.

I enjoyed both. I liked most of the fights and the soundtrack. I liked watching Superman and Batman move around in their costumes.

I can't stand either of these pieces of shit

but I can say that the fight scenes in Man of Steel were visually impressive on the first viewing and were the first scenes outside of animation were I felt that Superman was truly fighting

>>83015823
Plenty of people enjoyed it in spite of the problems, that's how it always is with anything.

At the very least, these movies don't manage to bore me to death like the Marvel ones. Too bad they're both weirdly made. You can tell a lot of thought and energy went into making these films, it's unfortunate that it's not really reflected all that well.

>>83015823
I absolutely love Man of Steel.

It gets better for me the more I watch it and I find more and more to take from it with all the beautiful and strongly thematic visual imagery that it has going on.

BvS isn't as good personally, mainly because of all the unnecessary justice league setup that distracts from the main story, I'm hoping the Director's Cut adds a lot more of the stuff I wanted to see and thus feels less drowned out by Justice League setup but there are still some fantastic scenes that I love in it even if it's less focused than Man of Steel.

>>83015823
I laughed at how terrible they both were before instantly becoming angry after remembering how terrible they both were.

>>83015873

There was nothing wrong with him murdering people.

>>83016555
Murdering people _is_ wrong

>>83016555
I didn't have a problem with this either. I like the concept of the DC heroes losing faith in humanity, but slowly gaining it back by the time that they've formed the justice league.

>>83015855

Agreed.

I actually liked BvS' crazy-ass dream logic progression, the biggest problem I had with it apart from the typical complaints about schizophrenic editing, was that Superman's character really felt like an object or a Macguffin in the plot rather than a person with a development arc and real agency within the story.

This movie was way more about Luthor and Batman serving as foils for each other and their development, rather than Superman's.

>>83016621
What if the people you're murdering are like total dicks?

>>83016643

I like his arc because it deals a lot with how one deals with their identity as a man. It was a very bold and surprising arc for a cape blockbuster.

>>83015823
I liked when they were over.

>>83016688
Only if the fact that they are attempting to kill you is what makes them dicks. That's more self-defence, though.

>>83016092
>It gets better for me the more I watch it
This. Not to start company wars shit, but it's the opposite with Marvel films. I tend to like them a lot after a first viewing, but after a few viewings, I get bored with them. Meanwhile, Man of Steel, I enjoyed more every time, same went for BvS, the two times that I saw it.

I think it has to do with how they're made, and whether or not it's your "jam" so to speak. Marvel movies do a lot for the sake of the audience. They put heavy-handed "emotional checkpoints", or scenes that serve no purpose besides making sure the audience is all on board and know what to feel. On a first viewing, these are very helpful and keep you invested. On subsequent viewings, they do nothing but slow the movie down and make you want to just skip to the good parts.

Meanwhile, MoS, and especially BvS don't really give a fuck about the audience. The movies keep chugging along whether or not you're on board, and this alienates a lot of viewers. The scenes are almost utilitarian in their construction, but it's never really spoonfed to you. This makes the movies often benefit from second viewings because you usually pick up on shit you didn't see the first time. The movies are very self-serving, but I think that makes them more engaging in the long run.

>>83016643

I would've rewritten Wondy's role in the movie so that she'd play more of an obvious part of helping him to recognize the larger universe he's involved with, in order to pull him out of his self-destructive obsession with Superman.

Y'know, make it so that she's the one who sends him the info on herself and the other soon-to-be Justice League members, for example. As it stands, she doesn't really do a lot significant in the movie aside from fighting Doomsday.

>>83015823
I liked BvS but t really isn't a good movie. it's just a montage of set pieces.

Superman in BvS has fewer lines than Spider-man in Civil War.

any scene that was decent in the movie was tied to Ben.

Jessie Eisenberg isn't a bad actor but not a good one for Lex.

and finally Snyder doesn't know what he's doing. As a director excluding sucker punch each movie naturally has a downward decline of likability, suckerpunch is basically at the floor of how bad he can be.

Why when people are talking about the shakeups being done have they not realized that adding Johns will do nothing if Snyder is still connected.

>>83015823

I liked MoS alot, thought BvS could have been better.

>>83015823
I liked man of Steel's visuals and did my best to ignore the fucking stupid story, characterization, and lines when watching it in theaters the first time.

>>83015881
I enjoyed both too.

they were shit. just accept reality and stop this ridiculous support group nonsense.

>>83015823
>problems

Nice try but you're not fooling me!

People don't like these movies only because NOT MUH.

>>83016991
Both of them actually have enjoyable elements. What so hard for people on the Internet to understand about this?

>>83017051
Don't forget the "too confusing!" crowd.

>>83015823
I liked How BvS felt a fully realized fantasy world. The superman is here and Gotham's scariest urban legend os real.

>>83015823
They both have their flaws but I still enjoyed them. Strong points are the choreography and cinematography.

>>83016911
Same. It's a shame because I feel BvS only suffered because of changes and rushing that occured in reaction the backlash towards MoS, and now I'm worried that JL is going to suffer even more for it.

>>83017051
I believe it. I avoided reading Geoff Johns' New52 Shazam origin because I heard so much negative shit about it, but I eventually I decided to read it anyway and I loved it. The only criticism that people seem to be able to hurl at it is "IT'S NOT EXACTLY THE SAME AS IT USED TO BE!"

>>83017051
I don't get why people scream so much about the characterization in this film, but don't do so for the inconsistencies in the Marvel films. Especially considering the fact that Superman actually murdered Zod in the comics and Batman really was a psychopath in various incarnations?

>>83017198
>but don't do so for the inconsistencies in the Marvel films
Because all the fucking casuals and shits that blindly praise the movies are the kind of people who never read the comics in the first place and probably didn't even know who Iron Man was before 2008. Meanwhile, every Joe Sweatsock knows who Batman and Superman are, and has a shitty opinion about them, tainted by years of pre-existing media.

>>83016664
Anon, you basically described how I felt as well

>>83017123
I don't think anyone said the plot was confusing.
Not making sense or bad pacing/editing doesn't mean people couldn't follow it. Luthor's plan in Africa for example doesn't make sense. That doesn't mean I didn't get that Luthor staged it to turn the Senate against Superman.

>>83017178
Justice League is going to have negative buzz no matter what. Expect reviews to be middling, but better than BvS. I really don't think the people at Warner are going to let this be as bad.

>>83015823
It was alright. Nothing special.
A "don't regret seeing it but won't see it again" type thing for me.

>>83017337
>I don't think anyone said the plot was confusing
The critics did.

>>83017380
>Justice League is going to have negative buzz no matter what.
I don't really care about the buzz, anon. I care that all the backlash from BvS is going to cause them to make even more stupid decisions because fans refuse to engage the movies and judge them on their own terms, causing an unnatural creative process and more shitty executive meddling.

>>83017198
>>83017299

THIS.
How many times have people defended the MCU movies with the "Yeah, but no one fucking cares about X character" as a defense whenever that is pointed out?

>nobody cares about Ultron
>nobody cares about Von Strucker
>nobody cares about Baron Zemo

MCU fans are mostly casuals that don't really give a damn about the characters as they are in the comics.

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>>83015823
Usually I can sit through movies, even if the quality of their content is dubious at best, but I ended walking off a screening of BvS because it was just such a colossal pile of shit.

>>83017337

>Luthor's plan in Africa for example doesn't make sense.

But it did. Luthor thought that Lois = Superman and wanted to frame Superman so the senate could fuck him. Superman kept himself out of political crisis.

So Luthor put to test his hunch by drawing Lois to a political crisis where he had control and when Superman showed up he had gotten his answer. Then it was just a matter to stage the frame. Now the Senate could say that Superman involvement escalated the situation in that turbulent place.

>>83017584
Triggered by how good it was so you had to leave?

>>83017584
>chris evans laughing gif
I swear I see this in every DCEU thread.

>>83015823
I've never been a big Comic Book guy. But Man of Steel got me into Superman, hard. loved both of these films because I just get them.

>>83017639
It triggered me as it was an insult to good taste.

>>83017745
>doesn't say why

Is it because there were no problems with it?

>>83017664
Have a friend who had a similar reaction. He loved Man of Steel.

I think it's because it builds the character from the ground up in an interesting way, if not a particularly faithful way. It does a very good job of telling the story of an alien raised in Kansas who decides to use his powers to help mankind, and fights off an invasion of his own people. It doesn't hit every note that previous origins hit, and while that really triggers a lot of people, those who are able to judge movies subjectively were able to find a lot to enjoy, and despite the differences, the movie keeps the essential core of the character the same.

>>83017796
No, it's just that I don't really want to waste my time typing everything wrong with a steaming pile of shit.

>>83017827

>if not a particularly faithful way.

To what? Golden Age Superman? Silver Age Superman? Post-Crisis Superman? Post-Infinite Crisis Superman? Post-Flashpoint? ASS?

>>83017507
DC fans are just a different kind of people. Type A personalities. MCU fans are type B

>>83017967

I wish DC fans were most like type B, to be honest. Specially in the case of DC which is full of different versions of the same character.

>>83015823
I absolutely love MoS on every level. It's one of my all time favorite superhero movies. For me it's on the same level as Dark Knight (for different reasons of course).
BvS is a flawed sequel to a favorite movie just like Dark Knight Rises was.

>>83015823
I enjoy MoS and love it. I think the atmosphere of BvS is too grim but I'm cool with it.

>>83015823
Loved MoS, hated BvS

>>83017918
Most of them. It clearly pulls a lot of inspiration from Birthright, but even then, the reluctant Superman and overprotective Pa are kind of new spins.

I think the general idea of Superman's origin, according to most, is basically what we see in the Donner movie, or better yet, Secret Origins. Clark has gifts, and his parents basically predestine him to become a superhero, even going so far as to have Ma make him a costume specifically for that purpose. Superman appears, saves the day, makes a speech, and is universally loved by all. 99% of his origin stories use that as the framework. I don't think it would be unfair to say that one of the biggest (misdirected) complaints about MoS is how the Kents raise Clark, and since it was handled so differently from the most universally accepted version, that is why I say it is not particularly faithful.

>>83018037
You've just reminded me that Snyder managed to BTFO the Nolam trilogy in terms of action. Still can't get over that warehouse fight. That bat mobile chase was fun too.

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>>83015823
they are both bad but BvS is better because batfleck.

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>MoS and BvS are for true comic fans unlike the MCU flicks
but Batman kills, Superman is broody, and Lex is kooky
>NOT MUH

So who else is hype for that extra 30 minutes? What scenes do you think are in it?

>>83015823
If I knew absolutely nothing about these movies and you showed me the action sequences from either of them I would suck your dick while begging to show me the rest, all the time thinking I'm about to see the greatest Superman and Batman movies of my life.


Then after seeing them I'd feel as tricked and used as I did on those late summer nights when my uncle took me on those "fishing trips"

>>83018319
I am endlessly hype. I'm still hoping for a special theatrical release to be announced.

>>83016621
But every superheroes murdering people right and left in film whether it's Marvel or DC, anon.

>>83017337
Well, anon, many critics and some fans actually said the plot was confusing which is quit shocking for me because I'm one of those guy that don't know Bat and Supes outside of a Big screen yet I'm completely understand the story even that the nightmare scene and the guy with red armor.

>>83018434
Not Spider-Man. He's such a good guy. I wish we were married. But then I'd marry Wonder Woman, also. She just kills a bunch of Turks, anyway, not that I have any issues with them.

>>83018434
Do you actually think Marvelfags care about that? They're too busy explaining away those movies problems and shitting on the DC films.

I thought BvS was the best superhero movie to date.

>>83018784
Really? To be honest if I wasn't a DCfag that actually read comics is be confused about the nightmare shit/luthor's Darkseid hinting/why Batman was so fucking crazy in general.

>>83018021
At least you can trust them to be tidy roommates.

What made me like BvS was mostly the character arc of Superman, Batman and Lex Luthor.

Sure, you had the fights and the conflict between them, but when you look at each character they're basically dealing with issues of what it means to be a man.

Superman doesn't know how to deal with the unintended consequences of his actions, the guilt of the damages he'd done and the criticisms of everyone, and he's recoiling inside Lois' vagina in a desperate attempt to find a safe place and comfort. He feels that he can be the man his father(s) wanted, so he'd rather not try at all. He's basically turning a infant again. This is pretty much the story of a teenager wrestling with the notion of growing up.

Batman feels like he failed his father, his legacy and his purpose. He's so immersed in own sense of worth and failure that he can't see anything else. Everything that happens he relates it to his own failings. He can't see any distinction anymore. That's where the "We were always criminal, Alfred" comes from. He hunts Superman because he fears Superman will fail everybody as he did and he's basically trying to commit sudoku by going against Superman in a desperate bid to feel worthy again. This is the story of an old man dealing with his mortality.

Lex Luthor was fucked by his father upbringing and importance and everything he did was an attempt to destroy and surpass that domineering image. He wants to be liked, he wants to be worshiped and any slight offense he takes to the extreme. He sees Superman as an extension of his father and he wants to show his power to Superman. He wants to dominate and surpass him. This is pretty much the story of a young man trying to be a man.

The whole thing, the father x son relationships, the way each characters dealt with the women of their lives, all that shit. I loved that. The rest of the movie not so much, but their character arcs surprised me a lot.

>>83018802
It's my favorite with Spider-Man 2, Batman Begins and Man of Steel DESU.

>>83018434
Hopefully Cyborg, Flash, and Billy Batson won't engage in any murdering. Aquaman murdering is probably going to happen though.

>>83018878
Yes, I understand the nightmare scene maybe because I play too many games and watch too many animations? For me, it's nothing news and very easy to get, honestly.

>>83018802
Me too.

>>83018878

I love BvS in part because I'm a Hypercrisis fag and like how the presence of Darkseid/Anti-Life was sort of woven into a lot of the background of the story.

But yeah I can see where someone who doesn't know what to look for would be confused by it.

>>83018953
>Lex Luthor was fucked by his father
you mean the one line he made about his father?

>>83019236
So is it a vision or is it a dream?

>>83019470

Several lines. The dude had clear daddy issues.

>>83019533
I thought Lex was controlled by Darkseid

>>83019520
It's a vision sent through the speedforce to Bruce while he was sleeping.

>>83019693
A vision of a... living Superman?

>>83019520
It's not a dream and that red guy has a power that has something to do with time or dimension.

>>83019626

That doesn't happen until later in the movie.

Before the "communion" scene (which pretty obviously takes place after he lets Doomsday loose), he's just driven by good old-fashioned petty hatred for Superman because his existence invalidates his entire worldview.

I'm shocked at the number of people who don't catch the significance of his Theodicy speech.

>>83019841
>Before the "communion" scene
the one that was deleted?

>>83018225
I think it's divorced enough from Birthright that it's not really worth comparing the two. It's been said in jest but while its imagery references lots of Miller, BvS actually shares the most plot points with JLA: The Nail.

>>83019879

Yep. But even then, when I watched the movie, I figured Lex picked up something that he shouldn't have seen from the ship's computer.

He dug too greedily and too deep into hidden knowledge and hit Anti-Life on the way down.

>>83017499
>and judge them on their own terms,
Can you tell me what this means?
Because it always kind of reds as "just like it already".

>>83019924
Why would the Anti-Life equation be in a Kryptonian ship?

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>>83015823
I enjoyed Batman vs Superman, and honestly have no problem with it like other people seem to have. A lot of people call it grimdark an whatnot, but I didn't get that same feeling.
I'm still not over Man of Steel. That was the one that was too "dark" for me.

>>83019995

I think it wasn't the Anti-Life equation, but just the knowledge of Darkseid and Apokalips.

Lex is a completely ego-driven individual, and he hates Superman and wants to destroy or discredit him because he can't comprehend the idea of someone using that amount of power selflessly. In Luthor's mind, "god" (or any figure of authority with sufficient power) must either be just as corrupt as he is, or not actually powerful in the first place.

Darkseid is a being who is both perfectly evil and corrupting, and supremely powerful. Lex faced with his idea of god finally perfectly realized, cracks.

I enjoyed them both immensely. You're not alone at all OP.

>>83016664
>Superman's character really felt like an object or a Macguffin in the plot rather than a person with a development arc and real agency within the story.
That's the entire cast aside from Batman, Lex and the senator lady

>>83020183

Nah, Lois and Perry with the Daily Planet were great too and this movie desperately needed more Clark scenes with them, being an actual goddamn reporter.

>>83020183
Batman suffers from it a little too given that the conflict requires he lack the agency to do his own research.

The fact that Lois became Superman's mom amuses me to no end.

>>83019962
People go into the movies and piss and moan that there wasn't enough joy or hope or fun or whatever. Nobody fucking went into Schindler's List and complained it didn't have enough quips. So many critics' reviews just flat out said "wait for the next Marvel movie instead", implying that they're even similar enough to be compared to each other. That right there shows that they went into this movie with the wrong mindset.

>>83020261
>Lois
>great
The performance was great, don't get me wrong, but she added jackshit to the movie If you were to cut all of her scenes without Supes it wouldn't make a single difference. They just added to the runtime.

>>83020303

Batman wasn't fighting Superman because he thought Superman destroyed everything or whatever. He was fighting Superman because Superman could end as him. Batman was basically killing himself.

Batman was basically committing suicide. This is obvious in the movie.

>>83020261
Supposedly that's one of the things that was cut, but should be restored. I guess there was more of him looking into the Batman and interviewing prisoners at Blackgate to learn how poorly anyone with the Bat-brand gets treated in there.

>>83020337
Do you at least agree it is possible to "judge this movie on its own merits" and still think it's crappy?

>>83020382

Yes, it would because then Superman hiding under Lois' wings would happens and thus hi arc wouldn't make sense.

>>83020415
Definitely. But I think the constant comparisons between the DC and Marvel films are unwarranted considering they're not even remotely trying to do the same thing.

>>83020387
Suicide by Superman is now the third interpretation I've heard.
Far more often I hear it told that Bruce's motivation is to kill Superman in order to leave a lasting legacy as he feels he hasn't. It's less him seeking death and more him seeking glory. That him fighting Superman is his last hunt.

I dunno if I think that interpretation is any more feasible, but I do like it a little better.

>>83020382
>she added jackshit to the movie
Her looking into the bullet tied Lex to the entire situation in Africa and proved that he was behind escalating the world's negative opinion toward Superman. Oh, and she's also Superman's emotional anchor throughout the entire movie. His love for her is what convinces him to sacrifice himself at the end.

>>83020415
I agree it's possible to do that with any movie. That's what opinions are.

>>83020536

That's what i mean by suicide. He feels horrible about not having anything to show for despite years of war and decided to hunt Superman so that at least he could do something of worth in his death. The depression is still there.

>>83020530
Well, that's progress at least.
Here's the thing. I too, think the movie is too dour for its own good, but I don't think I'm comparing it to Marvel or any other cape product, but rather just that there's not enough...I guess "charm" would be the right term, in certain characters. A lack of levity in Clark makes it hard to get a feel for his suffering, because with one exception, he never seems to NOT be suffering. His life is so miserable, it kind of makes his suicide feel like an escape and not the noble sacrifice it's framed as.

The ideological conflict was also kind of lacking in the end.

>>83020723
>That's what i mean by suicide.
That's not a very good choice of words then because it didn't read like you're saying that at all.

>>83015823
>Both movies have positive fan scores on Rotten Tomatoes

Yes OP, out of the millions these movies made at the box office, YOU are the only one in the world that liked them.

>>83020736
You actually articulated your problems with the film. 99% of the people on this board just shitpost and say "too gritty" or some shit. Also, I agree with what you said.

>>83020337
It's a fucking capeshit movie. There are things you come to expect from the very genre it belongs to. It's like going to watch a sci-fi movie and getting a movie with zero technobabble and with the atmosphere of a movie about teenaged girls going to prom instead

>>83020736
>The ideological conflict was also kind of lacking in the end.

For Superman, yes definitely. He goes through all this hardship and angst and melancholy over trying to decide what to do, and his decision is to... pretty much continue doing what he was doing in the first place.

Batman on the other hand we see come around to recognize that there's a lot more going on in the DCU than just his own private crusade, and that helps him to step out of his own anger and misplaced vengeance and start to recognize these other characters as valuable allies rather than obstacles.

>>83016621
Movie Batman has always killed people. Hell, KeatonBat's death toll was higher than Joker's.

>>83020829
I've been saying this stuff in every thread and most of what I get in response is "not muh superman, you just didn't understand it".

>>83021233
But were they murders? I think not.

>>83021300

Nah, I enjoyed the movie but I can see where you're coming from.

I'm one of those people who personally loved the movie, but at the same time I'm not surprised by the negative reviews it got, then it seems a lot of people bandwagoned on the hate train instead of watching it or were willing to at least give it a chance.

>>83020997
I meant the titular "Batman v Superman" but part of that issue is the resolution of Batman's arc being am insanely convenient dissolution of his myopia due to coincidence.

To be frank, even ignoring the source material, Bruce has to act like an idiot too much in order for him to keep pushing the plot forward.

>>83019995
Anti-life resides deep in our collective unconscious, popping up naturally in our Billionaires amd athletes, it's why Darkseid has taken interest in humanity. Lex is just smart enough to piece it together just through alien knowledge and human's innate affinity for it.

>>83015823
I didn't mind Man of Steel. There were some problems but overall I thought it was decent.

I found BvS downright depressing, though.

>>83015881
Literally what marveldrones believe.

>>83021494
>insanely convenient dissolution of his myopia due to coincidence
The coincidence was the trigger, but it wasn't the reason. Batman realized that in that moment, he was becoming everything he swore to fight against. He pledges to be Batman so that no other family will have to feel the loss that he felt. He asked Alfred earlier "after 20 years in Gotham, how many good guys are left?". He himself was about to become a bad guy himself, and that was what made him stop.

I'm surprised how many people get hung up on the whole "Martha" thing. The fact is, the name doesn't matter. All of our mothers have the same name.

"Mom"

>>83021494

I have problem with the coincidence, it's an emotional connection that shocks him into starting to think about the consequences of killing Superman and the loved ones he'd leave behind.

Before he makes mistakes as a result of his bloody singlemindedness in trying to destroy Superman because he sees him only as an alien who operates on a alien morality system with alien reasoning. In the Martha moment, he realizes that Superman is more human than he thiught, and can be reasoned with and his motivations understood. In the moments before death, instead of trying to fight or beg for his life, he's instead begging Batman for his mother's life. That's what makes the difference.

>>83022412
>I have problem
I have NO problem I meant.

>>83022292
this
>>83022412
and this

I'm not quite sure how so many people couldn't grasp this. Even Kevin "DC Fanboy" Smith, who has a fucking Batman podcast, couldn't pick up on the not-so-subtle subtext of Batman realizing he's becoming Joe Chill.

I liked the part where they practically copied dark knight returns but had to add their own "artistic vision".
And Batman beating the shit out of superman with a sink.

>>83022919
I think it's less about the subtext and more about the catalyst. I get why he stops but the Martha moment is just dumb as fuck. It was poorly filmed.

>>83023315
To me the very fact that they were able to kidnap Martha was just dumb when it just had been established twice that Superman can come to save Lois wherever she is in an instant.

>>83021690
BvS was a tragedy which ends with optimism. It's the dark part before the dawn, which I believe is at the very end.

>>83023569
>BvS was a tragedy which ends with optimism

I agree with the tragedy part, at least.

>>83023742
Yeah it's on the same tier as Fist of the North Star, in my opinion. It ends in optimism because Batman and Wonder Woman both regain faith and look for others like them, and there's the hint that Superman is coming back. I hope that rumor about Cyborg putting Superman on all the world's televisions ends up being true.

>>83023534
There's a huge difference between Lois and Ma's situations. Superman is actively keeping tabs on Lois because she's a reporter and is always going into dangerous situations. Also he fucking works with her. He specifically followed her to Africa. And the reason he caught her after lex pushed her is because he was already on his way to Metropolis, and also because she was SCREAMING AND FALLING FROM A BUILDING.

Meanwhile, Ma was quietly kidnapped over a thousand miles away, with god knows what happening in the distance between. And then she was hidden and gagged in a city flooded with crime (plus he really didn't know she was even in the city). Superman can see and hear a lot, but he's not fucking omniscient.

I love both

Both had flaws, but the concepts, ideas and character arcs are made in the mythic comic mold that I dont think any other movie has ever really touched.

>>83022292
>>83022412
>>83022919
You guys keep coming back to this and once again I'm telling you. I get it. I get that's what they were going for. I get that Batman was shocked out of his rage boner and his realization that he'd become the heel. It still feel flat for me.

It fell flat because in his treatment of Lex's henchmen he'd already crossed that line, a few dozen times and the movie asks me to put that out of mind all of a sudden. It's hard to believe his crossing it with Clark is so much worse. Especially when, an hour beforehand, he was making a pretty good case about how the existence of aliens invites disaster. And, moreover, those concerns aren't addressed. At all. That whole future vision he's given of a world where Clark can go bad and nothing an stop him? The threat his power and the challenges to that power create? The idea that maybe he CAN'T be trusted 100% of the time? That's not addressed at all. We're just told "well that won't happen. nevermind. he's actually cool".

That's not good enough for me.

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>>83024018
>He specifically followed her to Africa.

I wish this was made more obvious in the film so that people wouldn't say that Superman heard her all the way from Metropolis and came to her instantly. I think he was far closer and paying attention for anything because he knew it was a dangerous mission.

>>83024275
So why didn't he save Jimmy?

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>>83015823
>MAN OF STEEL DEFENSE FORCE THREADS
>NOW WITH ADDED BvS

>>83024375
They aren't pals in this universe. RIP Jimmy; he didn't get to have adventures. :^(

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Remember when shitty WB/DC movies were allowed to be shitty?

Does anyone else miss those days?

>>83024147
>We're just told "well that won't happen. nevermind. he's actually cool".

That's how Snyder and Goyer tell "stories".

>>83015823
I loved how realistic it was, it really felt like thats how things would be and how people would react to these characters in real life
I love the idea of Man of Steel, but i'd rather not rewatch it again anytime soon, its really long and a bit too little happens, but i really enjoyed it if you get what I mean
BvS was terrific though

>>83021348
they definitely were

>>83015823
The one thing I wasn't sure about was how Alfred was able to instantly pinpoint Ma Kent's location after Superman told Batman about her kidnapping. Anyone have any ideas about that?

>>83025033
>I loved how realistic it was

It wasn't. At all. Most anyone didn't act as any normal person would.

>>83016621
don't see you up in arms whenever a policeman kills an armed individual, doubt you were mad when bin laden got dropped, why are you mad that batman is ruthless in how he deals with people who get paid to inflict pain suffering and death onto others?

i swear you people are so fucked in the head

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Id just like to state that I dont think anyone seriously uses the word kino, and these graphs are just easy ways of pointing out all the cool visual references/rhymes and other hidden little things I like

>>83016829
supposedly there's still easter eggs from MoS that haven't been picked up on but i can't confirm

some guy on /tv/ literally proved snyder subtlety by pointing out something that to this day went over everybody's heads too, pretty funny

>>83016701
fuck off anon, actually watching the movie isn't allowed here

>>83016664
>I actually liked BvS' crazy-ass dream logic progression
this is pretty much why i liked it as well.
i mean the OG surrealist films of the last century are what got me into movies in the first place so it makes sense that i would like it here as well

>>83015823
I really love MoS, but it's sure as fuck not a Superman movie.

I enjoyed individual parts of BvS but the story was all over the fucking place and some super shit editing and writing.

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>>83015823
I genuinely loved the both of them, that doesn't stop me from seeing that they are shit movies. I'm well aware of the fact that I have shit tastes in movies, comics, and anime.

>>83025518
>some guy on /tv/ literally proved snyder subtlety by pointing out something that to this day went over everybody's heads too, pretty funny

What was it?

>>83025441
The police and army aren't operating unchecked outside the law

Man of Steel is my 2nd favorite movie but its not perfect. Its got 2 moderate to larger sized problems
>Tornado scene is ill executed.
>Not addressing the destruction in anyway

BVS is great-ish but instead of having a few larger problems it has 10 or so smaller issues.
>Clark not having happy scenes prior to the senate explosion.
>Clark not trying to talk Batman down more once the first dose of Kryptonite wore off.
>Lack of spelling out what Lex's motivation is.
Few other things can't think of right now.

>>83023742
The optimism is Clark proving once and for all that his intent was noble to the world.

>>83020993
>It's like going to watch a sci-fi movie and getting a movie with zero technobabble
some of the classics are actually like this.......

>>83020736
>I too, think the movie is too dour for its own good
I love the film, I love that they are being serious, but I agree BVS was too dour, there was a 2 points that I said to myself damn this is depressing, never had that with MOS.

>>83015823
After reluctantly seeing both I've come to an unfortunate conclusion.

First of all MoS was a disaster, no two ways about it, however I actually applaud WB's attempt with DoJ. Not what they did, what they did was terrible but I don't think there are many people who could have done much better now that I've had a chance to see everything unfold on screen.

First realize this isn't like the Justice League animated series, not in the sense it isn't a cartoon that has little to do with it. It's the problem of how much time and "episodes" if you will to flesh things out. i.e. they don't.

They've got ONE movie to do a bunch of things and if that's not challenging enough it's the clash of concepts that really fucks them up the ass. Each of the characters carries a mythos that is so individual to them it is nigh-impossible to incorporate it even partially with any other. Every time the focus shifts to the frame of one the others sort of fade out, defeating the purpose of them even being there.

For example during Batman's drive by it's all very All Star Batman, as soon as Superman shows up he literally puts a stop to it, it's just too hard for him to be involved or uninvolved long without something having to give. Similarly when Bruce is looking at Diana's old photo well, it feels like an entirely different movie is happening, when Superman's trials are building up and he's saving shit you think
>Wait wasn't there some dark ops espionage shit going on a minute ago?
The tone. The tone is just going nuts.

Throw in the dream scenes and hallucinations and it's a knightmare of storytelling. Lordy lord and when you have to bring all these things together for a fight and then team up it just sort of happens and ends. There's literally no possible buffer here. There's a number of other things I'd bring up but it just gets redundant.

Point is in an ironically tragic sense DC's properties are almost too big for each other to work seamlessly. The Kino is just too dense.

>>83017664
i had the same experience with BvS
like....of the stuff the characters go through was really on the nose for me personally, and the resolution and aftermath felt like the movie saying "what are you going to do about it" in regards to what was going through my head
to each is own

>>83018319
most hype for more clark, a scene with zod in his head could be haunting, and hoping for a sort of cinematographic and editing 'balance'

>>83025840
>Lack of spelling out what Lex's motivation is.

I never understand this, he makes it pretty clear during his big monologue to superman. he doesnt believe anyone can be all good and all powerful so he is proving superman isnt either.

>>83015823
I did
I dont really give a shit about these movies in the same way i would any other genre of film. I look at superhero movies as the new WWE.
I just wanna see my favorite guys and girls in silly costumes fight other people in silly costumes and have it look really fucking cool.
Despite all the problems they have Man of Steel and Batman VS Superman have the coolest shots and fight scenes of any superhero movie. Marvel has literally two good fight scenes across every single film franchise based off of their comics and it was the final fight of civil war. DC consistently is able to put out quality fights and cool looking shots of their characters and i honestly do not understand how that isnt enough for people.

>>83019924
i actually wished lex had been more deranged in his scene with batman
if he had said ding ding ding in a lower pitch with a cracking voice while shivering i think it could have done more to convey a "what the fuck did this dude see" type of vibe

>>83020736
being superman is suffering
if he dropped the superman persona and decided to live his life as clark kent he'd suffer less, this option is completely available and he has every right to take it, but he decides to commit to the ideal of hope no matter what

it's conviction of ideals inspite of the world type of thing

>>83026035
I actually agree but I included it in my list as so many dumb asses miss it or overlook it.

Did I genuinely enjoy? No.

Each film had different pluses. Personally, I think the most interesting thing about MoS is that the film is driven in large part by Lois' discovery of Clark's past, his immediate time spent traveling and visibly (as far as the audience sees, and definitely as far as, at least some, of his rescuers are aware) seen to perform feats of heroism and also his past.

There were some nice moments - the focus on my hearing was well-done, given that we've seen different aspects of Superman's power development on Smallville, in S:TAS and in the Donnerverse and Superman Returns. Obviously, the running has been over-done and the running next to a speeding train from S: The Move, even in the mid-90s, looks bad and it's not even CGI.

On the other hand, Clark crashing through the barn and stopping him, floating above the ground - that's one of the differences between what came before and MoS. There's a certain joy and embrace of unique and wonderous abilities - and they are just being used for Clark's own pleasure -- none of this is heroism or iconography. He's just a kid discovering he can do something truly unique. [It is what makes it a shame that every one and their side-kick can now fly one way or another - it's no longer really a special ability.]

In MoS, there is no joy in discovering he can hear everything, there's a fear of discovery and a lack of enjoyment of this unique ability. I think it was very well done and very accurate. I suspect that, if Clark was real, in any iteration and in any frame of time, whether it was in a simpler, Golden Age time frame, on a Moscow collective farm, or whichever time or place you might select, would likely have reacted in the same way to being able to hear, literally, everything. So, yes, nice scene, but given what you can compare it, it really delineates how different this movie was in what choices it made, etc.

>>83015823
MoS had a good set of opening scenes on Krypton and some really enjoyable fight scenes when superman took on Zod and crew. Russell Crowe did great work. The rest of the movie was very lackluster from the plot to the characters all of which I feel fell flat on their face.

I'm waiting for a home release of BvS as it's certainly not worth seeing in theaters unless it is leagues better than MoS and nothing i've seen or heard has said anything of the sort. Man of Steel is an okay one and done movie. I watched it once and thought it was okay. The second time around it wasn't much different.

I'll give it credit though, MoS was better than AoU.

My favorite scenes in...

MAN OF STEEL
>"Krypton had its chance"
Tragic powerful moment, superb music added to it well, shot of the scout ship banking down towards the city is awesome and done with very good cgi, you really feel the height.

>"Thank you" "For what?" "For believing in me" "Didn't make much difference in the end" "It did to me"
Beautiful subtle moment that really solidifies what Lois did for Clark in this film, giving him someone he could truly trust besides his parents.

>Clark meeting Jor-El on the scout ship and hearing the history of Krypton thru to his first flight.

BATMAN V SUPERMAN
>Clark showing that he learned from MOS and took Doomsday into space and held on even after seeing the nuke coming.

>"I love you This is my world, your my world"

>>83023569
literally ends on the ground moving upwards, with all the attached meanings in a "dawn"

>>83024375
jimmy getting shot is probably what triggered him to get the fuck there before anything else happens

he only saved lois out of pure chance, they both reflect on this later on

>>83025746
that's not what was being discussed here,
guy said all murder is wrong, if he actually held that conviction he'd follow all the way through

>>83025707
the scene with the trucker
the destruction of the truck legally falls under "act of god"

>>83026361
There were some other nice moments, and I re-watched the film for the first time last month, as a friend purchased a huge-ass 3D movie and I was house sitting for them the weekend before it opened.

The movie remained as disappointing as ever and all I really noticed was that the end battles was not this relentless, non-stop action piece that it felt like at my local Imax theater, but actually had more pauses. The neck-snap also played a tiny bit better than it did in retrospect, but we're talking manslaughter versus murder one hairline type distinctions, if that.

BvS has too many things to overcome. It was too long, too poorly edited, and over-stuffed. I'm seriously tired of every lazy writer from Skyfall, to TDK to Thawne on the Flash writing their major villain as some grand chest master who has every impossible thing set up so no one can see he's twenty-seven steps ahead and no one can prevent him from taking your queen and knifing her in front of you if he wants.

I thought the performances were good. Except for the guns, destruction and killing, I thought Batfleck was better than expected and really enjoyed Alfred. But as other said, it was essentially a Batman v. Lex, with very special cameos episode.

It doesn't surprise me that people liked the punching or violence. I see nothing wrong with an entertaining popcorn movie. My friends who are big SW nerds, dragged me to TFA, and I essentially felt it was a retooled first movie. Entertaining but nothing I'd want to see again.

MoS and BvS were not, to me, entertaining, and I doubt I will see BvS more than once more time.

Even with it's flaws, I've seen Superman Return a number of times. Star Trek Into Darkness annoyed me - and I thought it was entertaining, and I've also seen it more than two times (although I doubt I'll ever see it again). I just provide those as recent reference.

>>83015823
Absolutely. I needed a good fresh take on capes to balance all the Marvel comedies.

>>83026502
Government sponsored assassination is actually not murder

We didn't put Seal Team Six to trial because they literally did nothing illegal

>>83026554
Returns is no where close to MoS or BvS. Get your head checked.

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>>83026590
>Absolutely. I needed a good fresh take on capes to balance all the Marvel comedies.

>>83026594
well, i think we've hit a wall, and i think you probably think the same

I can't enjoy these at all. It's not because they do a poor job of adapting the source material, but they're poor films in general. There's too many issues I have with them to even consider them watchable past the first viewing.


I will give the movie one credit though.

>>83017664

I had the same reaction, but not because I enjoyed the versions portrayed here. I thought I'd give Superman a decent chance and picked up some books. They've all been incredibly enjoyable reads so far and it only makes me sadder that the film did not take more elements from the books. I thought Birthright was a perfect building plan for a modern Superman movie adaption.

Hell, I'd love to see an adaption of Secret Identity

>>83026651
Not comparable, BVS was 35% incompetent at the absolute most,
That fantastic 4 is 95% incompetent.

>>83026802

I'd watch Tranktastic before BvS again. Trank was a worse movie on a technical level, but at least it's not 2.5 hours long and I can laugh at how bad it is.

The only so-bad-it's-good parts of BvS were the action scenes and piss jar, the rest was too dull to even make fun of.

>>83026884
But the action wasn't bad, especially the Batman fight to save Martha which was fucking superb.

>>83026884
nothing wrong with piss jar, it's a cinematic top bantz tier 'fuck you'
guy throws her words back her and blows her up, good moment regardless of it being in a cape movie

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>>83016396

>>83026932

That was the least bad action scene, in that it was just mildly dull instead of being fucking hilarious like the actual Batman/Superman fight and the Batmobile chase or brain-meltingly boring like the entire third act Doomsday fight scene.

But I have zero investment in Batman fighting a room of random, faceless mooks because I had zero investment in that version of Batman as a character. I was sort of invested in Batman actually fighting KGBeast because he's literally the only villain the movie actually bothers to set up as a worthwhile threat, but Bruce doesn't even actually fight him so I didn't even get that.

>>83027018

The way it's directed is terrible, though. The sequence goes on for way too long, it felt like an extended Arrested Development gag but it's not actually supposed to be that funny.

>>83018319
Superhype. I want there to be more interactions between Batman and Superman (won't happen b/c Snyder), more Clark being a reporter, Superman smiling and being charming.

I enjoyed BvS during the showing just for the sheer spectacle of it, but during my stroll home while I was thinking about the movie I discovered more and more things about it that I disliked.

Like, why couldn't he have just handed the spear off to Wonder Woman? She already took off Doomsday's hand with her goddamn sword, there was no reason Supes had to sacrifice himself.

>>83027112

There was no reason at all to kill Superman in this movie to begin with either

Especially when they immediately undo it.

>>83018953
I agree with your post. BvS did a lot right and had more potential than any other superhero movie given what it tried to accomplish and it's themes/ideas. Unfortunately, the movie also had many failings (editing, lack of character interaction, character inaccuracies) and executed its vision poorly. Overall, I thought the movie was decent and am looking forward to the extended edition.

>>83027194
>given what it tried to accomplish with its themes/ideas.

>>83015823

Movie Batman was scary for the first time.

>>83027180

Also there's no actual ideological conflict because Luthor micro-manages a 300-step plan that gets every character into the exact positions he needs them to be in that started 30 seconds after MoS ended apparently.

This isn't the conflict of Batman and Superman, it's Luthor jerking off over his own super-planning for 2.5 hours. Both characters are plot devices until the Doomsday fight. None of the characters have any agency within the context of their own movie except Luthor and Lois, who's a plot device for Superman instead of Luthor.

>>83018953

Really good interpretation. It also works in the sense that the heroes accept femininity into their lives (Wonder Woman, Lois, Martha(s)) which allows them too succeed, but Lex treats femininity with contempt and fails (no mention of his mother, killing Mercy and Senator Finch, degrading Martha).

>>83020993
Capeshit is a category, not a genre. It's obviously biased when you base all your expectations of superhero movies on one franchise of films made by one company.

>>83027075
>The way it's directed is terrible, though. The sequence goes on for way too long,
This. Most of my complaints about anything usually come down to how long they were on screen. Lex is clearly an asshole so him being an asshole isn't a problem, it's the amount of time that takes in and from the movie.
We got her reaction shot, then 3 reactions shots to her reaction shot, her reaction shot again, then an explosion, crowd reaction shot, Superman just standing amidst the flames.

He doesn't tornado them up or anything. I know, it was a hopeless scenario anyway and I gather it was meant to emphasize how futile it feels to be indestructible in a fragile world but he seemed to have a look of
>Here we go again
More than anything

>>83027503
Capeshit IS a genre, but a genre can have different tones. Darkman and Nolan and all that shit can coexist in the one genre.

>>83015823
Nope, I did not like either of them, but MoS was infinitely superiorand and watchable, even with some good scene. BvS is tar. I only remember the scene of Batman hanging on the wall (with the policeman), worthy of note, the rest is mediocrity.

Amazing how much I reconsidered MoS now.

>>83027706
>but he seemed to have a look of
>>Here we go again
>More than anything

That's what the second biggest problem I have with that scene (and no, the first isn't the piss jar). It really sucks how Clark's expression of resigned defeat never really changes; he's a sad sack before the explosion and after. There's just no range, no big reaction, so it ends up feeling like it's no big deal to him that all those people just died.

>>83027180
>There was no reason at all to kill Superman in this movie to begin with either
His double sacrifice proves to the world once and for all that his intent was noble.

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>>83026099
This. 100%

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>>83015823
Poor Ben.

>>83027706

It's the small thing, but the scenes that annoyed me the most were the conversations Lex had on the roof with Lois and then Clark. First you had the terrible green-screen background, and then compounded with the fact that it was just

>shot
>reverse shot
>shot
>reverse shot
>shot
>revrse shot

For like five straight minutes. It was the Plinkett jokes about the Prequel Trilogy direction but played entirely straight.

>>83026099
>I dont really give a shit about these movies in the same way i would any other genre of film. I look at superhero movies as the new WWE. I just wanna see my favorite guys and girls in silly costumes fight other people in silly costumes and have it look really fucking cool.

This, but I also expect the characters to have entertaining personalities and BvS didn't deliver that.

>>83028084
damn
as someone who liked the movie, this is the one legitimate issue i have with it

>>83029588

I thought it was bad in the scene at Luthor's charity event, but it was way worse in the rooftop scene at the end.

The whole movie is full of weird directorial choices. Why the fuck is every conversation shot with the camera so close to the actor's faces? Why is Wondy's shredding guitar theme playing during scenes where people are looking at computer screens? Why does every actor deliver their lines like they're meant to be cut out and used for the film's trailer, with weird emphasis on the beginning and ending of each sentence? Why does Snyder suddenly steal cinematography right out of The Raid for Batman's big brawl with the mooks in the warehouse, with the camera pulled out in the large, almost empty room when no other scene in the movie looks anything like that?

It's such a fucking weird movie on a technical level.

I love how in every BvS support group thread people act like wanting the main characters to not be total dipshits = NOT MUH.

I don't dislike these Batman and Supeman because they're different than what I'm used to, I dislike them because they literally give me no reason to like them.

>>83017632
>But it did.

He equipped his mercenaries with bullets only he manufactured.

>>83025480
>>83025503
>>83025525
>>83025534
>>83025550
>>83025574
>>83025584
>>83025603
>>83025616

While thoughtful, none of this confronts the reality that Superman has almost no lines and is a highly passive protagonist in the film.

Religious/cultural parallels made without a genuine emotional connection to tie them to are not endearing.

>>83025876
>his intent was noble to the world.

Yes, martyring himself so that people would love him even more. Because why even be Superman if people don't love him unconditionally no matter what he does?

>>83026456
>jimmy getting shot is probably what triggered him to get the fuck there before anything else happens

See, you've just invented that. If you didn't know the guy was Jimmy, or if you didn't know who Jimmy Olsen was, it reads as some random guy dying.

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>>83026540
>the scene with the trucker
>the destruction of the truck legally falls under "act of god"

Yeah, insurance won't cover that so that trucker is screwed.

Also seems like the kind of impossible incident that would alter the government or Lois to Superman, but nope, doesn't.

And it's played for a laugh that Superman performs such a petty, passive-aggressive act. Because Superman being cruel is funny.

>>83026660
Yup your an idiot who classifies all death as murder.
Which is stupid. Since if we extend it to real life than anti-vaxxers are murderers, self defense is murder, accidsnts are murders.

How about one of the staples of batmans lore is that he doesnt kill. Because hes Batman

>>83030381

Well considering in Suoerman II he actually assaults the trucker, this is fine.

>>83030347
don't need to know about jimmy, my point still stands
i should have just said that the shot is what gets his attention
kgbeast looks to the sky before he gets his men to start shooting, i'll have to see again if there are any auditory tells

>>83030047

> "NOT MUH"

>>83030464
see VVVV
>>83016621
>Murdering people _is_ wrong


well, you're obviously infallible and i have no recourse. i submit to your superior intelligence

>>83030381
Silly anon, nothing in these movies is played for laughs. well, besides "is she with you?" line that is stupid, makes no sense in context and generally shouldn't be in that movie.

>>83015823
I enjoyed BvS. The following parts :
Batman
Alfred
Especially batman beating mopingman
Wondy getting turned on by being beaten up

And since I'm a batfag, these were enough for me to enjoy BvS on the whole.


I didn't enjoy MoS. I DIDN'T.

>>83030760

>well, besides "is she with you?" line that is stupid, makes no sense in context and generally shouldn't be in that movie.

Batman asked Superman that because Wonder Woman was clearly supernatural. In these movies the only people to display powers were alien, kryptonian to be more precise. That's why Batman thought that Wonder Woman was an alien too and that peharps Superman might know her.

Come on, guys.

>>83015823
I enjoyed MoS, BvS not so much

>>83030823
But she was "with" Batman. He knew her, they emailed each other. So Supes could ask is she with Bats, and Bats should have said "yeah kinda"

>>83031178

He knew her as a thief and knew there was something odd about her thanks to the picture, but he didn't knew she was strong as Superman. So he took the chance to ask about her.

>>83030823
>Batman asked Superman that because Wonder Woman was clearly supernatural. In these movies the only people to display powers were alien, kryptonian to be more precise. That's why Batman thought that Wonder Woman was an alien too and that peharps Superman might know her.
>Come on, guys.
Mate you can't be blind to the fact that that's pure fanwank. Batman not only has an established cast of superfreak villains, but has also seen Luthor's MetaTrailers himself, and none of them look even a tiny bit Kryptonian.

Even disregarding the fact that clearly he was the one who summoned her to the freaking fight, he has zero reason to assume she has any association with Superman whatsoever.

>>83032012
Batman thinking that Wonder woman is some secret ally to Supes isn't a stretch at all tho m8.
>geez this woman who secretly is immortal and has Super powers might have been secretly working with the Superman to keeps tab on me
>let me ask him
>she isn't
>say what?
Tl:dr you're a faggot who refuses to think critically about these scenes.

>>83015823
It was even worse the second time I watched it.

>>83032173
>Hmm, this this woman could possibly be working with Superman, despite the fact that she has no know contacts with Superman whatsoever, has done nothing when Superman was forced to fight me against his will and was almost killed by me, and has only shown up to save ME after being explicitly summoned to show up by ME.

It's a trailer joke that should have stayed in the trailer.

>>83015823
I liked both of them fine.
They're different, which is refreshing, there's only so many times you can serve the same Donner stuff without it getting stale.

This is a darker version of the DC universe, which is fine, it's nice to get a different perspective on these characters.

To the whiners; you have your comics and films intact, give room for the new stuff - soon er or later there will be a nostalgic turn and we'll get Donner pastiches again.

>>83015823
I haven't seen either of them.

>>83032498
Yeah it's not like it was shown that Wonder woman is able to keep a secret for nearly a 100 years right?

>>83032498
Yeah and CACW had a trailer fight that should've stayed in the trailers.

>>83032647

>To the whiners; you have your comics and films intact, give room for the new stuff - soon er or later there will be a nostalgic turn and we'll get Donner pastiches again.

You're talking with people that complained about the Nu52 Superman so badly that now DC is killing the character in favor of bringing the old Pre-Nu52 Superman back.

>>83032647

I don't care if Superman is dark and somber, he's almost 100 years old as a character at this point. You can do basically anything you want with him, he's a template from which you can tell different kinds of stories just like any other superhero.

But it still has to be a good movie. I liked Man of Steel in spite of its many, MANY problems, but BvS was a disaster.

>>83032647
>To the whiners; you have your comics and films intact, give room for the new stuff - soon er or later there will be a nostalgic turn and we'll get Donner pastiches again.

The "whiners" in this case being the vast majority of audiences and critics.

>>83032977
>majority of audiences
Nuh uh, it's actually a pretty divisive film with lot of people enjoying the film.

>>83032845
Glorious, isn't it?

And luckily BvS bombed so badly that WB is furiously trying to completely change its upcoming DCEU films.

With any luck the DCEU will collapse completely in a few years and this utterly worthless garbage can be forgotten.

>>83033017
Nope. You can wrap yourself in that fantasy if you want, but there's a reason it was an utter failure that sank like a rock once it was released.

It's valueless, and rightly despised by almost everyone except mindless fanboys.

>>83032977
Citations and numbers please.

>>83033017

The only people I've seen who like it are capekino shit-posters, edgy teenagers and edge-case vulgar auteur film critics, the types who say that Tony Scott's latter day works and Paul WS Anderson movies are secret cinematic masterpieces and Michael Bay is a genius.

That's not exactly a huge portion of people.

>>83033101
>utter failure
We're not talking about your Parent's failed marriage here anon, BvS made it's money back well enough and profit even with the hatchet job it was facing from the critics.

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Wouldn't it be fun if we could, on /co/ (or 4chan in general) address the topic?

Pic related.

I enjoyed the first one on the premise that it set up a neat sequel. I thought it'd be cool to see Superman have to earn the trust of the world after the first encounter with Kryptonians ended so horridly for everyone involved. Batman V Superman, though, showed that Zach Snyder just wanted destruction porn and doesn't really understand the characters. I was honestly hopeful with the beginning but then Batman just does the same shit. I nearly groaned when Batman actually said "we've gotta take him back into the city"

>>83015823

I loved them both. BvS is probably one of my favorite cape films ever.

>>83033230
>pic related
>anon is already down to the "responding to tone level" with his first post

>>83033101

My trainer said his friend liked it but didn't think there was enough Batmobile action.

This is mentality of the average audience.

>>83015823

both have some of the best scenes in any cape-movie ever, yet the movies as a whole are dragged down by some cringeworthy dialogues/scenes, BvS even moreso than MoS.

It may be style over substance but this style is what I've really been missing in other movies which have great characters but the movies look just bland in comparison.

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>>83030760
Batman was just having some fun with Superman before the big battle since they're friends now. It's foreshadowing of the fun they'll have later.

>>83015823
The death of Krypton was really cool in MoS, I love space-fantasy shit and that whole thing was done well. The movie dies as soon as Kal lands on Earth, but at least those first few minutes were fun.

>>83033017
The only people who didn't like this movie are absolute retards or people who only follow popular opinion.

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Here's ammunition for everyone who's tired of all the faithless fags who bitch and moan about literally two of the greatest approaches to the Superman mythos in existence.
http://www.manofsteelanswers.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8XKsaYUSlv3rLBnhH5DOyA (Man of Steel Answers Videos on youtube)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZeqQlmOPgs (Why You're Wrong about Man of Steel by Twin Perfect)

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>>83015823
>What did you like about them?

The fight scenes. They're the absolute best superpowered fight scenes ever put to film(and also Batman is there and he does some cool stuff too).

One thing I really loved was that opening in scene in BvS, where you see MoS's climactic battle happening from ground level, and there's all this chaos and every once in a while you catch glimpses of Superman or Zod smashing through things. It's that thing that really screams to me, "superheroes in a world like ours."

Man of Steel Trailer 3 is my favorite superhero movie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6DJcgm3wNY

Basically, I feel that the movies are a bunch of amazing scenes strung together with some really weird and mediocre shit, and questionable decisions.

>>83015823
No, OP, you are not allowed to enjoy DC capeshit anywhere in the internet.

I did, and I'm a marvelfag. But it's largely because I simply enjoy the genre. These movies have varying degrees of quality and loyalty to source material, but I'm very glad that I'm in a period where this genre is incredibly mainstream. Who knew there would be a day where I could go see the midnight premier of these movies with my wife, then talk about superman, captain america, flash, black panther, etc with my mom just as well as my kid nephew. Shit's good man.

>>83035024
Why didn't BvS end like this?

>>83015823
I enjoyed MoS, BvS dissapointed me.

I wtill see a better movie behind all the shit, but like it is now, my expectations are pretty low for the DCEU.

>>83037448
DAWN of Justice. It's going to be a lot lighter now, but people are going to claim that it was because BvS didn't do well.

>>83037488
Will JL end with a super montage?

>>83037548
Batman: Don't worry, Superman, I brought the one thing that not even Darkseid can resist!
Superman: What would that be, Batman?
Batman: A Hostess Fruit Pie!

Everyone laughs, the end.

I just can't for the life of me figure out why they didn't put Bruce Timm and Paul Dini in charge of the DCCEU. They had three shows that basically everyone and their dog loved, and they put Zack fucking Snyder in charge, a person who did one "good" movie and then everyone was fed up with him.

It's like the WB execs are immune against good descisions.

>>83025684
>I love it
>It's a shit movies
>I have shit taste
I'm not being sarcastic here but how is this even work?

Like people love to say shit/good movie/comic/anime/etc but did they even know that it's shit/good? because even professional critics can't even pointed it out and all of their review always end up as "Oh, I like this one because they have this, this and this that I like so it's good" and "Meh, this one is shit because it have this, this, and this that I don't like so it's shit" and when I ask about it, they honestly can't explain it.

This is weird, I'm so-so with MoS and BvS, btw.

>>83015823
Didn't like MoS (although after second viewing I have a bit warmer feelings towards it), loved BvS.

I actually kind of like that Superman's POV was minimalized. This way Superman becomes the pure good: he does good deeds simply because it's the right thing to do and doesn't boast about it. Lex and Bruce are the loudest narrators because hate tramples goodness ("How many good men stayed that way?"; "No one stays good in this world."; "Mankind created a world where standing together is impossible.")

Also, I fucking love that Clark is this quiet, introvert, soft-spoken man haunted by doubts. It's a very refreshing portrayal of a super hero after all the cardboard Might Makes Right figures.

And then, Batman. God fucking dammit, I was actually against casting Ben Affleck (before you ask - no, I didn't sign the petition) and I owe him a written apology. That scene where he jumps out of the batmobile made me scream internally cause it felt like taken straight out of a comicbook. He moves easily in the batsuit, he looks great as Bruce Wayne, he's fucking 6'4" with huge hands - definitely not the kind of guy you'd want to pick a fight with.

What I really love is that we finally got a Batman with obvious mental issues. And the relationship with Alfred was god tier: they actually feel like people who have known each other for years.

Last but not least:
>"The world is too big, Ma." - "Then make it small."
>"You are my world."
>;_;

>>83030293
but they are made with genuine emotional conenctions, read the fucking things. It shows how the visual imagery is meant to key you in on Batman's arc and Superman's feelings of having to live up to an impossible idea (of being all good AND all powerful), but yet he does it.

>>83030381
the truck thing is an homage to Action Comics #1, where he destroys the asshole's car. I swear to fuck, no one on /co/ knows shit about comics.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDVGuZ45OrQ

I find it hilarious that in a movie that is all about how people project their own expectations and fears onto superheroes, that's exactly what the audience did in terms of Superman and Batman in BvS.

Not saying whether the movie is good or bad because of it (it's reasonable to expect a certain amount of recognition and baggage carried into a story in regards to such well-established icons in pop culture), but it's just another layer of the thematic structure of the movie.

>>83041090
Because thoughtless references are always a good idea.

>>83041234
>(You
but it wasnt thoughtless you idiot, it is meant to represent that at that moment, we are seeing the start of his journey as superman. He sees a great injustice and uses his powers to make it right. Did he do it perfectly? No, but neither did comics superman. Its about learning, its re-enforcing the idea that he IS just a farmboy from kansas and will make mistakes on his path to good, just like any human.

>>83040259
I think shit taste typically refers to having unrefined taste, as in something you get by sticking to stuff you assume you'll like instead of trying something completely different. Some people are aware of this and inform others about it when expressing their opinions.

Having shit taste could also refer to liking some particular details of the movie so much that they love the movie despite being aware of the flaws. For example, I love Wayne's World a lot, but I can see that it is not a great movie.

>>83015823
I liked Man of Steel, sort of, mainly I liked the action scenes and specifically Russel Crowe leading Lois Lane through a robot maze he had complete control over. I would LOVE an entire movie of that obi-wan looking motherfucker guiding someone through a techno-labyrinth like that.

>>83030293
>While thoughtful, none of this confronts the reality that Superman has almost no lines

The story revolves around him... Just like in many tragedies the title character doesnt need to be the focus of attention, there's nothing wrong with that. It's just that american movies are usually not like that. But it's still pretty common in the teather and many european movies.

I want to see more superman and i want him to have more lines, but that is something i DONT LKE, not an actual bad thing of the movie.

>>83030381
He does the same in superman 2.

>>83018953
Great post anon

>>83039605
WB execs fucking hate Timm and Dini because they made their careers on proving them and their focus groups wrong.

>>83040259
Everybody has some personal preference and will eat up stuff that caters to that even if they don't think it's actually good. Like I love first Transformers movie, but I will never ever say it's actually good in any way.

>>83041324
>but it wasnt thoughtless you idiot, it is meant to represent that at that moment, we are seeing the start of his journey as superman. He sees a great injustice and uses his powers to make it right. Did he do it perfectly? No, but neither did comics superman. Its about learning, its re-enforcing the idea that he IS just a farmboy from kansas and will make mistakes on his path to good, just like any human.
Fuck this meme already. This movie isn't about Clark learning to be Superman. Clark literally learns not a goddamn thing over the course of these two movies. Whatsmore, the movie doesn't even acknowledge that Clark HAS anything to learn. At no point is Superman actually called out on his shit by anyone who we're supposed to listen. The Senator comes closest, but even she is just there to be thrown away when her point actually comes to a head.

The movie THINKS their Superman is flawed, but the flaws the movie sees are different from the flaws everyone else sees.

I like both, MoS more than BvS. BvS' pacing and poor usage of Superman drag it down for me, but I like most of the rest of it.

>>83041912
>Clark literally learns not a goddamn thing over the course of these two movies. Whatsmore, the movie doesn't even acknowledge that Clark HAS anything to learn.

What?seriously? What do you think was the point of him talking to his mother and the visions of his father??

>At no point is Superman actually called out on his shit by anyone who we're supposed to listen. The Senator comes closest, but even she is just there to be thrown away when her point actually comes to a head.

But he is... All the Time, that's what Batman does, that's what Luthor does, that's what the entire country did.

>>83041912
>called out on his shit
But Clark did nothing wrong.

>>83042223
>What do you think was the point of him talking to his mother and the visions of his father??
To grow him into the person he was when he was 11 years old.

>>83040421
>"You are my world."
This whole thing felt really stiff and made me wish John and Lois were never involved in the series.

As Clark's childhood friend/crush Lana would have been a better fit for a romantic interest and focus. There'd be plenty of implied background stuff between them compared to whatever this was. What a rush job.

>>83030313
No he did it to save lives, he didn't do it so people would like him, that was just a side effect.

I liked how Superman, in a 2 hour film, killed more people then Godzilla did in his films.

>>83033152
>the types who say that Tony Scott's latter day works and Paul WS Anderson movies are secret cinematic masterpieces and Michael Bay is a genius.
Your full of shit.
Mos is my 2nd favorite movie & I strongly like Bvs.
The Rock was great and Bay's best film but he is light years from Genius.
No one on this earth thinks Anderson does good work.
Pandorum & Event Horizon are good and that's it everything else was crap.

Of Scott's work, I love Crimson Tide the most but its not a masterpiece. Spy Game is solid.

>>83033234
If that was true they Snyder would have actually given us destruction which he didn't.
A few oil containers got destroyed that's about it.

>>83042809
Except... you lying mother fucker, he was not in Metropolis while it was destroyed (by the world engine) and after he did arrive in Metropolis only 1 single building fell during his one on one fight with Zod and he did zero structural damage to it.
Troll harder shit stain.

>>83015823
i enjoyed both, they have flaws for sure. People cant go 5 min without reminding you of them, but that shit aside i enjoyed MoS more than BvS, BvS was exhausting to me.

>>83041912
>Clark literally learns not a goddamn thing over the course of these two movies
He learned to focus on taking the thread out of the city hence him taking Doomsday out of the city and into space almost immediately.

>>83017584

yea no shit, i enjoy MCU movies but i cant stand Evans anymore thanks to this meme.

>>83029862
>Why the fuck is every conversation shot with the camera so close to the actor's faces?
To put the audience off kilter. One of the first things you get taught about camera distance is that the closer the camera is to someone, the more the audience gets the sense that personal space is being encroached upon and the more uncomfortable they get.

This makes close ups ideal for suspense scenes, not so much for exposition. Shyamalan did the same thing in Last Airbender. It's great way to get casuals to think "Man things are really tense here!"

>Why is Wondy's shredding guitar theme playing during scenes where people are looking at computer screens?
Because shredding guitars are shorthand for "this character is cool".

>Why does every actor deliver their lines like they're meant to be cut out and used for the film's trailer, with weird emphasis on the beginning and ending of each sentence?
Because they probably were meant for that.

>Why does Snyder suddenly steal cinematography right out of The Raid for Batman's big brawl with the mooks in the warehouse, with the camera pulled out in the large, almost empty room when no other scene in the movie looks anything like that?

Because Snyder is a dwarf standing on the shoulder of giants.

>>83015823
Both of them are fucking terrible, but BvS is far worse in how pandering and juvenile it is.

The WW file opening scene is a new low for the superhero genre in how blatantly it's trying to shill. It's boardroom execs jiggling keys in front of comic book fans faces.

>>83043281

speaking of shills

>>83042809
Is Godzilla a pacifist now? Because he would have had to kill 0 people to Clark's 1. Does Zod even count as a person? He's a Kryptonian.

>>83043330
Speaking of brandwhores.

Both Films blow every marvel film out of the god damn water in terms of fight scenes

>>83043201
If you watch the material it comes from he's usually being a good sport about things only related to him and his work, you've just conflated the behavior and beliefs of faceless, nameless individuals here with him, making you kind of a bigger asshole in comparison.
I guess it's fine when you do it though.

>>83043603

(You)

>>83043790

they way you flipped that around me makes you the bigger asshole, anon.

>>83042223
>What?seriously? What do you think was the point of him talking to his mother and the visions of his father??
Literally nothing because they keep giving him horrible advice that he never listens to?
Like seriously, at no point in either of the two movies do Ma or Pa tell him anything that he adopts and internalizes as part of himself.

>But he is... All the Time, that's what Batman does, that's what Luthor does, that's what the entire country did.
Are you legit telling me that LUTHOR is someone who comes across as having an actual point and not just a crazy person?

Neither Batman nor Luthor nor anyone else are presented as actually having a point because the movie goes out of its way to demonstrate that they have the completely wrong image about Superman. Superman's main flaw as depicted in the movie is failing to escape the image of an all-powerful force that everyone projects their fears and desires onto, rather than being a very real loose cannon that people actually do have a right to be vary of.

The movie is pretty much operating on a completely different wavelength than its audience, both the lovers and the haters.

>>83044413
>Literally nothing because they keep giving him horrible advice that he never listens to?
Horrible advice? Everything they say makes sense

>>83044413
If they had Superman show that "people have the power" or whatever, i wouldve liked it. like have just say to people " i cant be everywhere, you guys are more powerful than you realize".

Like the whole hing in the Spiderman movies with the citizen shelping spidey out, as corny as those scenes are, I dig because they are empowering.

it wouldve actually have made Jor El's speech in MoS resonate more, plus making superman less of a mopey sad sack dr manhattan guy is preferable to me.

And the idea of uniting people against a cause should be a theme in a Justice League movie or a "batman v superman but really a JLA prequel" movie

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>>83042497
>wanting to wipe out the most iconic comicbook relationship

>>83044930
Not wipe, just refocus. I hated Smallville's execution of it but if you first establish how vulnerable Clark is when it comes to relationships, especially those from his home town, then you help humanize him immediately.

Stress how he could never be with Lana but cares deeply for her and confides in her and Martha as both Clark and Superman.
They don't even need to show Johnathan for that matter, just have it implied Clark misses him and learned all he did from his example so it's left to the audience to imagine what sort of great man he was instead of misinterpreting things. All that is MoS.

After all that struggle at home in that film THEN introduce Lois either at the tail end of MoS or beginning of BvS as city girl who helps Clark break out of his shell and is willing to accept all of him. Boom. Setup a conflict of interests initially conveyed through John and Martha through Lana and Lois. Does he remain the mild mannered person Lana saw or does he become the larger than life hero Lois sees in him? How they settle who he picks is up in the air, but it would be great if Lois learns how delicate Superman is while Lana learns how heroic Clark has been. Just let it settle like that.

>>83044534
Literally everything they say is the exact opposite of the advice he needs and only serves to constrain his actions.
Pa Kent hammers it into him that he needs to keep himself a secret, so he spends a decade angrily fumbling around until Zod comes, then he ditches his advice and never looks back.

Ma Kent tells him he doesn't owe anyone anything, even though he is the source of all the controversy the movie revolves around and as the most powerful being on the planet has all the more responsibility to engage in a dialogue with people and generally act responsibly. Clark of course doesn't listen to her.


Pa Kent's ghost.... I don't even fucking know what that was about. Shit Happens? Try to do good and you'll still fuck up? That scene felt confused even by this movie's standards.

>>83045184
>Pa Kent's ghost.... I don't even fucking know what that was about. Shit Happens? Try to do good and you'll still fuck up? That scene felt confused even by this movie's standards.

You can try your best and people will still get hurt.

I like the sentiment, but honestly in a movie that's already over-stuffed with highly symbolic dream sequences, we didn't need ANOTHER fucking vision quest in the middle of that. (plus I like the idea of Batman being the sort of oracle that all the weird shit happens to, and giving Superman a dream sequence alongside that confuses that general theme)

>>83045184
>Ma Kent tells him he doesn't owe anyone anything,
And she is right, if he wants to do good it has to come from his heart and not from obligation

>>83045553
Fuck 'with great power comes great responsibility', am I right?

>>83043330
Look, you can like BvS, but you should know that it doesn't like you. It hates you, it thinks you're a toddler with disposable income who will pledge your undying loyalty to it if it just throws a bunch of meaningless references in your face. Not even homages, just references, just Batman jumping in front of a lightning bolt because DUDE THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS LMAO, for lack of a better word.

>>83045672

You still can choose to refuse that responsibility. It's just a saying, ultimately the hero is the one that holds themselves accountable to it.

Kinda unexpected BvS is about to be beaten by Jungle Book for third place worldwide.

>>83045750
Fuck that, the situation in the movie is explicitly and entirely of Superman's making, and he sure as shit has a responsibility to help figure it out.

He's welcome to refuse heroism altogether, retire and stop using his powers to help people. That's entirely his right. He's not welcome to just keep doing whatever the fuck he wants and not be held accountable by anyone or anything.

>>83045553
People dying he can save, man, does Captain Planet really have time for Heart before he can mobilize?

>>83036178
lol that trailer is a perfect tl:dr for the movie

>>83041090
>snyder is more faithful to comics than anyone yet
>he gets shit on for it

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>>83047109
YES HELLO 2006 CALLED

>>83043281
that scene is a tease, that's it. it literally presents the audience with short clips
nothing inherently wrong with that
comics tease shit all the time, sometimes to never be referenced again

>>83047277
It has nothing to do with anything that happens in the movie, it's inorganic. It's not a tease, a tease actually leaves things to the imagination and doesn't distract from the rest of the movie. This is a fucking advertisement. It's putting three trailers in the middle of a fucking movie.

>>83045987
>and not be held accountable by anyone or anything.

People assume that of him, but he holds himself accountable to the people around him. Remember his line to Lois about how SHE is his world? He wants to live up to her expectations. He wants to be someone that his parents can be proud of.

And it's those personal connections, that intimate knowledge of a person's self, that Batman ends up seeing in how Lois protects him in their fight, and how Superman begs for his mother's life rather than his own.

Ultimately when we are removed from other people, we can only project ourselves onto them, it's by seeing their relationships, how they relate to the people closest to them and those actions that we see the measure of a man. Batman goes nuts because he's so far removed from any sort of personal relationship like that. Luthor is nuts because his personal relationships are disordered and painful (being abused by his father). Wonder Woman returns to being a hero because she sees these tests of character through Batman and Superman, Batman gains faith in Superman's character by seeing those personal connections he's made to humanity rather than just being an aloof protector. And Superman is convinced to be a hero and sacrifice himself for a world that doesn't see his true nature, for the sake of the few who do.

>>83047264
>singer twink fantasy 'superman'
no thanks

its actually pretty funny to compare the returns and mos costumes from that perspective

>>83047404
I don't really care for Cavil's ridiculous Incredible Hulk TV show build either. I'd like there to be some kind of balance.

>>83033183
>BvS made it's money back well enough and profit even with the hatchet job it was facing from the critics.

As did M Night Shamalan's the Last Airbender.

>>83047391
i wasn't distracted by it, to me the scene started, gave information, then ended.
i wasn't thinking about the scene after it was over, only when batman brought up bringing them together
i actually thought that move was pretty funny anyway, as playing with the idea of post credit scenes

i can't really say much about it because it didn't trigger anything for me

>>83040985
>but they are made with genuine emotional connections, read the fucking things. It shows how the visual imagery is meant to key you in on Batman's arc and Superman's feelings of having to live up to an impossible idea (of being all good AND all powerful), but yet he does it.

You're a fucking moron.

>>83047522
really? you mean the build that superman has had since the nineties?


i was just poking fun anyway

>>83047522
Bullshit, that;s how big great Superman artists like Manhke, Mcguinness and Byrne draw him. The only great Supes artists who draw him much smaller are Curt Swan and Dave Gibbons and Gibbons still draws him bigger than Routh by a good margin

I genuinely enjoyed them both, and I know plenty of people that like them, that think they got too much flak.

>>83041090
>the truck thing is an homage to Action Comics #1, where he destroys the asshole's car. I swear to fuck, no one on /co/ knows shit about comics.

Having read Action Comics #1, I can assure you this isn't true.

The video is bullshit, using select frames to suggest the connection, but it's mostly a fabrication by the author.

In Action Comics #1, Lois is kidnapped by gangsters, Clark changes into Superman, chases after them, lifts the car up, shakes Lois and the other men out, then throws the car to terrify them.

The scene in Man of Steel has nothing to do with that.

>>83015823
Unpopular opinion

MOS and BVS are superior films in terms of music, directing and originality than their Marvel cousins. Every nitpick I have is with the script by Goyer. Take him out and fix the character work and dialogue and the movies become good. What I saw from MOS to BVS that I liked was they took their failure with Pa Kent to heart. The Clark/Pa moment was pitch perfect. Clark's whining like a child because people aren't loving him and Pa talks about his own idea of being a hero. Sometimes good people hurt when you do good.

That moment was perfect. The lois and Clark scenes where amazing and genuine.

I didn't enjoy Man of Steel. I enjoyed Batman vs. Superman in spite of itself. I think if you trimmed BvS's script and kept lex's plan to having the big two fight and then rigging the kryptonian ship to explode...that would have been perfect. Delete the Senate bombing. Delete the Doomsday fight. Have Batman save Martha as Clark pushed the ship into the sun. Have Wonder Woman only in a brief cameo where Bruce shows up at her door with the photo and says, "we need to talk". You still get what your going for, but without the last 25-30 minutes of length. A shorter more streamlined movie.

>>83041635
>He does the same in superman 2.

I would rather get punched out in bar then have my entire livelihood be destroyed by a petty, passive-aggressive Superman.

Clark comes off as a real cunt.

>>83042781
>No he did it to save lives, he didn't do it so people would like him, that was just a side effect.

No, he allowed himself to die so that people would love him.

Because Superman only saves people so that they can love him.

>>83047706
>originality

Let's say thing we can't take back.

>>83047815
>No, he allowed himself to die so that people would love him.

He had no idea if people would rally around him or not.

And through the whole movie he does his damnedest to save people, even if those people don't like what he's doing and people on the news say mean things about him as a result.

He sacrifices himself anyways.

I liked Man of Steel but I genuinely loved BvS, despite its flaws.

What I loved the most were the visuals. Synder shoots very beautiful visuals. Like the Waynes murder scene. I thought it was great how it was shot, even if we have seen it many times, this one was different. And the music fit perfect. Great soundtrack as well.

Batman was a fucking badass too, it was great seeing him in action. We never got Batman dominating fights in Nolan's films, at least not like this Batman did.

I could sympathize with Superman and how he couldn't save everyone, no matter how much he tried. His mood fit honestly.

Wondy in action was dope too.

Synder's angels and demons symbolism throughout the movie I was also a big fan of, because superheroes are often called Gods. Lex's narration over it was great too. And the painting was pretty genius if you ask me. Maybe I'm a plen but angels a demons are my bread and butter 2bh

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>>83048341

I kind of roll my eyes at this point at angel/demon symbolism in these things nowadays, but I sit up at take attention when someone manages to get the Problem of Evil right and use it effectively as a recurring theme that connects multiple character arcs.

Luthor's monologue to Superman and Lois on top of his tower was legit one of the best scenes in comic book movie history.

>>83048341
the whole angels/demons to me was a way to situate it within the cultural imagination

the whole heaven/hell and related dichotomies are something that i wonder about because of well, drug experiences, they're things that appeared to me like the way the source wall appears in comics so i wonder if at a mass level there's something similar where you have to use common terms and ideas of angels/demons to get to that space

>>83048261
>He had no idea if people would rally around him or not.

Yes he did. Large crowds of people love to reach out to him when he save someone.

>And through the whole movie he does his damnedest to save people, even if those people don't like what he's doing and people on the news say mean things about him as a result.

Well, no. He saves Lois in Africa, but he doesn't save anyone else killed in the ensuing violence, despite no risk to himself.

>He sacrifices himself anyways.

He could've gave the spear to Wonder Woman. He chose to commit suicide like Jonathan Kent before him. Truly he honored his earth father in those moments.

>>83049298
they should hire you to talk about him on tv in the future

>>83015823
I liked mos, batman vs superman was complete shite tho

>>83048448
>Luthor's monologue to Superman and Lois on top of his tower was legit one of the best scenes in comic book movie history.
Give me a break...

>>83015823
MoS: 8.5/10
BvS: 10/10
For me.

>>83015855
I feel the opposite. I thought the narrative of BvS was all over the place and the first half was dull as shit.

>>83040259
There's no rules nor standard when it comes to entertainment category so you like what you like and hate what you hate, it's all about personal preferences and tastes.

There's no 'good' or 'bad', it's all about whether you like it or not.

>>83015823
Yeah, but for very superficial stuff like the ost and action. Going deeper, I can see why critics and fans shit on them.

>>83047264
Jesus Christ that awful fucking blue.