Civil War question: So what was Howard Stark's connection

I think they were the super soldier serum

>>82756186
After about fifty years Stark was finally able to completely replicate Erskine's original super-soldier formula. HYDRA killed him before he could use it and stole the serum themselves. They didn't use the Vita Ray process though so they ended up with a bunch of crazy and unstable Winter Soldiers. Basically five Red Skulls minus the intelligence and even crazier.

>>82756230
They mentioned using the 1950s Cap in films when TWS dropped, it's nice that they were able to work something of it in.

>>82756186

Because he was probably heading a new project rebirth. Being that Hydra was operating within Shield, they sent Bucky in to retrieve it so they'd have more Supersoldiers at their command besides Bucky.

And because Howard might've become aware of Hydra's infiltration.

>>82756218
Or at least the closest he ever got to recreating it. I don't remember if the movie said where they where they were going that night but I imagine he was taking them to a safe facility for storage or was going to hand them over to SHIELD.

>>82756278

Well if the scene with Stark's therapy thing is of any indication, they were going to have a
quick stop at the Pentagon on their way to the bahamas.

>>82756218
why the fuck was he transporting super serum unescorted?

>>82756230
>They didn't use the Vita Ray process though so they ended up with a bunch of crazy and unstable Winter Soldiers. Basically five Red Skulls minus the intelligence and even crazier.

I think that would've happened with or without the Vita-rays. The serum enhances you inside and out.

>>82756218
The Super Soldier Serum was lost

It was Kree blood

>>82756363

Probably because he produced it privately, and no one was supposed to know. And he possibly didn't want to draw attention.

Also, back then, a CEO could actually go about his business and not need a security team with him in public.

>>82756363
Same reason Hank transports Pym particles unescorted.

Why didn't Hydra ever send WS for the Particles?

>>82756445
Did Hydra even know Pym Particles existed until Cross told them?

>>82756462
He worked for SHIELD.

>>82756445

Because unlike with the serum and Supersoldiers, you don't need to be transformed to use it. It's something they probably considered, but in the end it was probably too risky. Hank could actually use the shit to defend himself. And even if they did get it, they'd probably compromise their existence within Shield by doing so. So going after the Pym Particle was probably too big a risk.

>>82756218
Why did he say that this was the last time he and his wife were going to see Tony? Or was that just fictious dialogue Tony wished his parents said?

>>82756651
Probably fictitious. Or they were going to be on business for a very long time and didn't know if they would see him again

>>82756379
>It was Kree blood
No anon, it's what they injected into the other Winter Soldiers

>>82756522
>>82756445
>Alright, so that Elite Death Squad we sent to capture Pym and his formula? We hit a snag sir.
>What kind of snag?
>Well half of them are just these thimble sized puddles of flesh goop, the other half were eaten by giant ants.
>...
>Should we wake up the Winter Soldier sir?
>Unless you want to send the helicopter to pick him and his house sized metal arm up, then no. We don't wake up the Winter Soldier. How's Stark coming along with Project Rebirth?
>Our mole says he's got a 98% match with Erskine's original formula.
>Call the Siberian branch, I want Frosty woken up. Two dead, package retrieval. Tell him to make it look like an accident.
>Yessir.
>...
>Fucking Pym...

>>82756748
>we will never get a Pym: MAX where we see an insane Hank shrinking to ant size and throwing bullet punches

>>82756186
He was transporting it covertly and likely didn't want to draw attention to the fact that he had samples of it on it. We know he worked in tagent with SHIELD on spy shit so it could either have been something he was doing with them or it was a personal project that he was keeping quiet about.

>>82756379
No it's the super soldier serum.
Both the original version injected in Steve and the "failed recreation" injected in Blonksi were coloured blue. It may be because one or both used Kree blood as part of the formula but we can't say that for certain as that's never been confirmed anywhere in the various films that talk about it.

Why didn't Hydra capture Howard and force him to make more serum or give them the recipe? Seems way more valuable than a mere 5 more winter soldiers and a dead Stark.

>>82757301
>confining a Stark and making him produce tech
It's like you want him to blow your base apart with a MacGyvered superweapon.

>>82757301
>Why didn't Hydra capture Howard and force him to make more serum or give them the recipe?

Because one Winter Soldier did well enough for them for 50 years up until that point. Five more and they'd be unstoppable.

Granted, that plan failed. But still, I can hardly blame them for thinking this way.

>>82757362
>Roger Sterling as Iron Man
Holy shit.

>>82757301
You left Howard Stark alone in a room full of chemicals.

Congratulations, your entire base now has double-AIDS and Stark just ripped your doorman in half with his new super strength

>>82756363

Security through obscurity, keep it safe by not attracting any undue attention to it. Unfortunately, Peggy & Howard had gotten old and hadn't noticed HYDRA infiltrating the ranks of SHIELD.

>>82756445

Maybe they didn't think they were worthwhile back then.

>>82758177
>Howard had gotten old and hadn't noticed HYDRA infiltrating the ranks of SHIELD.

Except it's largely implied in TWS that he did.

>>82758469
Was that implied? Do you mean because they had him killed or was there something else?

daily reminder that the last time they actually improved on the serum it called down a literal Angel of Death

better not meddle in it

>>82758554
Howard's picture/car accident flashed on screen while Zola was talking about eliminating anyone who was close to finding out.

>>82758750
He wasn't talking about people finding out, he was talking about history refusing to change in Hydra's image.
But yeah, it was pretty clear that Howard was closing in on Hydra.
But Bucky's mission wasn't to specifically kill Howard and Maria Stark, it was to retrieve the super soldier serum with no witnesses.

>>82758750
Ah, you're right. He was responding to Natasha saying that SHIELD would have stopped him. Then he showed Howard and Fury. I thought it was when he was saying "when history did non cooperate history was changed".

>>82758177
>>82757548
Something also to consider is that they may not have had as much use for WS as you'd think. Bucky was thawed rarely enough that he still appears to be around the same age as he was in WWII.

>>82759121
I mean, they only have to thaw him out for like, a few days or weeks at a time. He wouldn't age that much.

>>82759121
>Something also to consider is that they may not have had as much use for WS as you'd think

Well we know he's been used at least about 20 times. BW says he has "two-dozen" confirmed assassinations in 50 years.

File: IMG-20160415-WA0004.jpg (15KB, 231x219px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 231x219px

Yfw you realize the same supersoldier serum stark made was used for bolonsky in hulk, and had the same unstable effects, meaning hydra probably had some dealing way back in incredible hulk

>>82760239
>Yfw you realize the same supersoldier serum stark made was used for bolonsky in hulk
It most likely wasn't the same, the serum used in TIH was likely reverse-engireed from Stark's version.
Ross mentions that Banner was working on the same serum they gave Blomsky.