What do you think is the main difference between "Hero"

The west attempts to pin real-world problems on characters that are inherently unreal, whereas Japan almost never does this except on a rather shallow level. They let their heroes be mythic, while the west attempts to make them "real" or "believable". Of course there are exceptions to both sides.

>>82628147
The west are typically built on a shared universe and stuck in a loose status quo.
Eastern heroes are usually trying to tell a story that's allowed to progress beyond a particular status quo.
The Big 2 universe is also supposed to more or less reflect our world. So the heroes affect on the world is mostly just superficial.
Though there are exceptions in the west with stuff like Invincible and AUs.

All Might is so cool!

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>>82628266
He's that right mix of corny and badass that I love.

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Super sentai shows seem like they're closer to American superheroes than anime. One thing that makes them different is that they're groups rather than individuals (pretty obvious where this difference comes from). Magical girls also work in groups.

Another thing is that Japanese characters don't suffer from the doubt, conflict, ambiguity and edginess that seem to be afflicting American superheroes today.

>>82628147
Don't take this the wrong way but a lot of anime heroes strike me as more selfish than in the west.

>>82628480
In what way?

>>82628217
I just think this is flat out wrong. Sometimes the west does that, sure, but they also fucking invented the Silver Age. If you think about most japanese iconic nerd culture they do try and put a lot of "real" stuff in it. Godzilla is a direct result of nukes, Usagi Yojimbo is just a samurai story with a bunny, even Battle Fever J was a UN operation.

>>82628257
I don't know man, I'd say the DC status quo changes about as often as Naruto's does. We've had like 3 different mainline Flashes, Superman was once made of red and blue lightning, Batman was commissioner gordon for over a year, and WW is either the daughter of Zeus or a clay golem. Meanwhile we are just now getting Baruto.

>>82628456
what about NGE and Madoka though

>>82628521
just look at NGE, Madoka, One Piece, Naruto, etc. they are all motivated by themselves trying to achieve a personal goal. Not like how most western superheroes are expected to do good for the sake of good.

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If you like Western superhero action cartoons you will love My Hero Academia, I promise from the bottom of my soul

>>82628147
On the opposite side I'll bring up that the closest to american superheroes you can find in Japan comes from super robot shows.
Normal or enhanced normal people get a terrifying power and use it to fight for justice because it's the right thing to do.

>>82629030
>what about NGE and Madoka though

You do realize neither of those shows are about heroes, right?

>>82628978
>Usagi Yojimbo is just a samurai story with a bunny,
Is Usagi Yojmibo that well known and popular?

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>>82629030
I think OP is talking about superheroes and superhero-like characters, not just any and all characters.

The driving force in Madoka is one person trying to save another person, which is hardly selfish.

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>>82629063
>Madoka
>Not a hero

Fucking pleb

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>>82629114
>>82629063
>>82629061

But for real tho guys

>>82629053

This guy is right watch the show right now

>>82628217
I blame Miller for that bullshit

>>82629085
Mainly just among indie comic readers and TMNT fans.

>>82628217
This. Except sometimes Japanese creators actually put daily life problems into the mix. Like in Tiger and Bunny show. It actually reminded me Straczynski's TASM run. And that's great. That's what made a lot of superheroes like Spider-Man popular and, most importantly, relatable in the first place.

The way Marvel forces these SJW "problems" though? It's ridiculous, unnatural and overall disgusting. I really hope people'll get tired of this first world problems crap.

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>>82629467

Eastern cartoons and manga often make the superhero characters self-important and much more one dimensional. They also give them ridiculous inner monologues that last like 10 minutes.

The only good "superhero" anime is OPM because its at least unapologetic in the fact that you just watch it for cool action sequences and funny characters.

>>82629678
>Eastern cartoons and manga often make the superhero characters self-important and much more one dimensional.
What is this based on? I can't even think of superhero stories other than OPM (which is just a parody) and Samurai Flamenco (which is some kind of parody too).

>>82629678
And Western cartoons and comics never progress or move past the status quo because they want to keep milking the franchise.

Seriously, when you're using the exact same characters after 50 years (both good and bad) with the only notable difference being the order that these characters have been shuffled into and their aesthetic appearance I can't help but feel like there's a problem.

Easter animu shit has a lot of problems but I can at least respect their willingness to actually move time forward in their series instead of keeping everything in permanent stasis where no one ever ages and death is never permanent.

>>82628147
Deku meeting the avengers when ?

Girlfriend (Japanese, we live in Japan) thinks that the difference is that western heroes typically choose to be heroes, while Japanese heroes are typically forced (aggressive versus passive, basically - which could also be used to describe national character/identity).

When I told her that comics were made under the creative control of a team, she was shocked. She didn't understand how multiple people could work together that create a book, because manga is radically different - even though there are assistants, the work is ultimately the creator's vision.

The concept of shared universes and continuity and canon also confused her.

>>82629770

Are you implying the chacters and their mythos didn't change at all during those 50 years? Because that would be wrong.

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>>82629770
>everything in permanent stasis where no one ever ages and death is never permanent.

Unless the characters are c-lister or below. And an editor really hates the characters for some reason.

>>82629030
>Madoka
>Selfish
Did you even watch the series?

>>82629899
>even though there are assistants, the work is ultimately the creator's vision.


And that's why most manga is pretty shittily written.

It's made by manga fans who were influenced by manga fans who were influenced my manga fans who were influenced, back in the 80s and 70s, by actual literature, music and artists.

It's an industry that feeds off itself and just keeps distilling its own themes on and on and on until everything just got grounded up into archetypes and tropes that are not there because they're especially effective, but because the creators just don't know how to write something different.

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>>82629980
Compared to Pre-Crisis JSA.

Hero cartoons and comics in Japan are just lazy derivatives of stuff int he West.

>>82629997
Herr's your (You)

>>82629997
I agree with that as a criticism of manga, but comics also has its own similar fault (comics written by comic writers, now written by board room executives, and etc etc)

I think people in Japan are satisfied with manga being low culture though, while the West is desperate to define comics as high art, literature, or whatever lets them feel comfortable reading "graphic novels" instead of comic books.

>>82629125

Madoka is not really *about* Madoka, in a lot of ways, anon.

Besides, while Madoka is goodhearted and kind, it was pretty clear OP was talking about people who are heroes as a thing they are as characters, rather than simply put in the spot of having to do something heroic. You know, your superheroes and Kamen Riders and shit. People for whom being a hero is part of their character definition.

>>82630051

I'm not baiting; this is something anyone who reads old manga can tell you.

It's really fucking weird, it's like the inverse of western comics: while western comics grew gradually more mature and competently written, manga became increasingly formulaic and adolescent.

While in the west they were breaking patterns, in Japan they were finding them and solidifying them into this self-sufficient industry. They don't try to change because they don't have to, they found out what makes them more money, and that's it.

I'm talking about MOST manga, not all of it, of course. There are a lot of exceptions.

>>82629930
The amount of change in superhero properties like Batman and Superman has been virtually non-existent. There's been no continuous narrative or even a single author. Various people over the decades have just taken the characters and done stuff with them.

>>82629997
Manga is a lot more than Dragon Ball. It encompasses just about every genre and topic there is, for every demographic.

>>82630017
The superhero genre is American so of course if Japan makes a superhero story it's going to be derivative to some degree.

>>82630094
>while western comics grew gradually more mature and competently written, manga became increasingly formulaic and adolescent.
>While in the west they were breaking patterns, in Japan they were finding them and solidifying them into this self-sufficient industry.
This never actually happened of course.

I don't know how people come up with this stuff.

>>82630075

>but comics also has its own similar fault

Oh, most definitely, but they have a little more control over that, since it's a team and not a single guy in charge of it all. But definitely, I'm not saying comics are highly intellectual at all, just that they manage to at least break molds while manga seemed to solidify them.

Fuck, the whole EXTREME 90s thing started because comic book artists wanted to take a shot at writing their own shit, and we know how that turned out kek.

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>>82630115
>This never actually happened of course.
Are you trying to tell us that 90s EXTREME comics have never happen?

>>82630115
>I don't know how people come up with this stuff.

By actually reading both?

I mean, saying that the changes in the big 2 comics in the last 50 years has been "virtually non-existent" and then claiming that manga creating archetypes and tropes and sticking by them never happened is not a case of wrong opinions, it's a case of being actually factually wrong.

You've either never read either medium enough or are in denial.

>>82630094

The only part of your point that rings true is the distillation thing. It's true that, as things grow bigger, manga genres seem to increasingly compartmentalize and become more and more specific in their demographic targeting, to the point that things within the same niche fall prey to a lot of repetition, because that's what the people publishing say works for the very specific demographic the work is targeting.

Instead of taking a single genre and trying to widen its appeal like American comics are trying to do, the "big" manga industry seems to be solidifying towards having a million very specific, targeted genres.

'course, much like with Western comics, you will generally find the more choice and original stuff off the beaten, market tested path. There's thousands of little manga breaking these trends. But the popular manga does tend towards appeal specialization lately.

>>82630115
>This never actually happened of course.
Guy in Japan (as if that leads any authority to my post) - I agree with him mostly though admittedly, I have my own personal bias towards comic books.

Manga for the most part (like comics) is fairly derivative - there was never any industry-wide purge of different genres, the way the West dealt with the superhero explosion drowning out all other competition (Dell, First, etc). So Japan was able to lay the foundation fairly early on for all these different sorts of work, and improve on the same formula. Moe's also drastically changed the playing field, and is most of the anime you'll actually see on television's mere 8 channels (you often have to pay for extra cable channels just to even see what the West considers the "best" anime), and it's throttled creativity in the mainstream to a heavy degree.

Meanwhile, comics have been trying to dig itself out of the mud that came from Big 2 dominating the market for so long. Indies still rarely thrive to completion, and even finding a publisher is far more difficult, with more barriers of entry than in Japan, but there have been many attempts that have been seized by the mainstream for attempting to elevate comics as art (when, as I previously mentioned, Japan seems satisfied with manga as low culture meant for children, or childish escapes from reality)

>>82630143
>, just that they manage to at least break molds while manga seemed to solidify them

you don't actually read manga nor comic books

>>82628147
Is the anime out already? Seems like I've been waiting forever

>>82628147
Here's an article that discusses some of the differences

>http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feature/2016-04-29/all-might-vs-superman-how-our-heroes-are-different/.101590

>>82630166
extreme is juvenile fantasy, not "mature" in any way except maybe ratings.

>>82630166
I was referring to manga, though it's rather funny to say that American comics have "breaken patterns" by simply tweaking the superhero formula.

As for that image that gets constantly posted without any explanation as if it was some self-contained winning argument, it's nonsense. The studio in question has produced virtually nothing, they've only provided production support for others, and there was at the time and still is a lot of anime that isn't whatever otaku anime stereotype is being peddled here.

>>82630175
>By actually reading both?
People who are completely clueless about anime and make nonsensical remarks about it always insists they watch it, too.

>I mean, saying that the changes in the big 2 comics in the last 50 years has been "virtually non-existent"
If you had actually read manga then you should be perfectly aware of how static American superheroes are by comparison.

>manga creating archetypes and tropes and sticking by them never happened
Manga, again, encompasses just about every genre and topic there is, for every demographic. There is no singular set of archetypes and "tropes" that everyone and everything draws from. And there are archetypes and "tropes" and other repeating elements in American media just as much, you just don't pay attention to them because you're too used to them.

Here's a theory: people are used to being able to reduce comics to "superheroes" and animated shows to "cartoons." They then try to apply the same reductionist logic to manga and anime, and it fails every time because that's not what manga and anime are like. They can't be reduced to a single thing like that.

>>82630198
>Moe's also drastically changed the playing field, and is most of the anime you'll actually see on television
There's 0-3 moe shows per season. Right now there's Bakuon, Anne Happy and Sansha Sanyou and... I think that's it.

>>82630198
>as I previously mentioned, Japan seems satisfied with manga as low culture meant for children, or childish escapes from reality
But there is more to manga than that. As I just said, manga and anime cannot be reduced to a single thing.

There's been tons and tons of live action television and movie versions of manga, but you'd never realize it when watching them because they don't conform to your stereotype of manga. For example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_of_Evening_Calm,_Country_of_Cherry_Blossoms

>>82629053
I just finished the fourth volume last night and it really is a lot of fun. I want to be buddies with All Might.

I've been a fan of One Piece since I was in the eighth grade, so Oda giving the series props helped me to finally make up my mind on checking it out and I'm ashamed to have waited so long. On the plus side, there's now an anime running and it's fun to watch it unfold as I read the manga.

>>82628978
The Silver Age was also decades ago, anon. Nowadays comic enthusiasts are obsessed with the idea of "realism" as a way to justify their hobby as anything more than comics. If it's "silly" or "unrealistic" in their eyes chances are they won't go for it.

>>82630319
I mean, one, I do realize it because I live here and see commercials on tv every night. But while manga tackles serious subjects, the West feels this need to see Maus as the pinnacle of visual storytelling, whereas what you linked is just another manga that got a live-action adaption (and most Japanese people consider their film industry rather embarrassing compared to the world at large, desu)

Japanese people also care less about genres and more about who the audience a work is aimed at is (which is why manga is always grouped by shounen, shoujo, seinen, etc), and a groupthink mentality towards whether something is enjoyable or not. They are all about stereotypes in work, and whatever is a part of the mainstream is accepted as good, BECAUSE it is mainstream.

>>82630297

Yeah let's just ignore shit like Vertigo, Fantagraphics, Dark Horse, Image, Top Cow, 2000AD, Heavy Metal, and a dozen other comic outlets that don't fit the superhero genre, otherwise your point might end up not making any sense!

I mean, you're the one saying that superheroes haven't changed AT ALL in 50 years, that's a completely retarded claim, man.

I know manga is a medium and not a genre, but my point still stands: it's a self-cannibalizing medium, and it shows, in every genre.

You can get as defensive about it as you like, but it's not something I'm pulling out of my ass, it's something fucking mangakas themselves claim frequently.

>>82628147
nothing

>>82628257
>The west are typically built on a shared universe and stuck in a loose status quo.
do you think
we only have superheroes

>I love indie comics so I'm going to compare them against mainstream manga.

>I love indie manga so I'm going to compare it against mainstream cape comics.

That's a fault that people ITT this thread really need to recognize.

>>82630481
Archie is exactly the same.

>>82630436
>Yeah let's just ignore shit like...
I was not speaking on my own behalf, but American comics really are dominated by superheroes and that's why people easily equate the two.

>I mean, you're the one saying that superheroes haven't changed AT ALL in 50 years, that's a completely retarded claim, man.
Have you ever even read/watched/played stuff where there's a continuous storyline with more or less permanent changes, and a beginning and an end? Superman and Batman have been around since the early 20th century. There's been no continuous story, they are just reinvented over and over again by countless different authors in comic books, movies, TV shows and video games.

>I know manga is a medium and not a genre, but my point still stands: it's a self-cannibalizing medium, and it shows, in every genre.
You are over-sensitive to the "tropes" in manga because they are foreign to you and stand out, and like so many Westerners you fetishize "originality."

There are repeating elements in manga, but there are also many stories in many genres for many demographics and they don't all have the same repeating elements, in the same quantities and in the same forms.

>>82630515
>indie manga
Is there an actual indie scene in Manga? I don't really know that much, aside from several semi-popular series either beginning online and moving to the mainstream or still remaining there.

I can't imagine most of the top tier manga people are thinking of in this thread are indie either. Manga may be self cannibalizing, but there's a lot of different cannibals eating themselves. Sometimes they share plates, but Japan has a lot more genres in the mainstream than America, which I think is where the disagreement comes from.

>>82630251
Interesting view on how Japan and America regard government control differently with th gun control analogy

>>82630557
The originality in comics is "newer" to the medium than the originality in manga. It stands out more in greater quantity, greater mainstream attention/recognition, and usually in far, far greater political/social relevance than in manga.

I don't see how you can argue an evolving change from the status quo isn't greater than a retaining of the status quo.

>>82630557

>Have you ever even read/watched/played stuff where there's a continuous storyline with more or less permanent changes, and a beginning and an end? Superman and Batman have been around since the early 20th century. There's been no continuous story, they are just reinvented over and over again by countless different authors in comic books, movies, TV shows and video games.

Yes. It's called "serialized" and "episodic". One is not better than the other, and just because something is episodic it doesn't mean it doesn't go through changes. A super hero story arc is pretty much a serialized mini-story, while the long-running title itself consists of multiple story arcs. Changes do occur and are permanent between those arcs, with the exception being character death, which in the Big 2 comics is always reverted because they don't want to lose a character forever.

>You are over-sensitive to the "tropes" in manga because they are foreign to you and stand out, and like so many Westerners you fetishize "originality."

>westerners fetishize originality

That's a joke right

Tell me that's a joke

Japan is like a country-sized case of ORIGINAL CHARACTER DO NOT STEAL

>>82630580
>Is there an actual indie scene in Manga?
Eh, kinda. I mean, manga is typically published in chapter form along with other stories, so it's not like one title is trying to stand out among a crowd of cape comics.

I don't really know anything at all about the self-publishing or doujinshi scene though. I know comiket is huge (I've been 5 times so far), but to me, it's all just borderline porn.

I don't think I could even consider Oyasumi Punpun, /a/'s last big "indie" sensation, as indie, or rather, underground, because I saw shirts for it sold in several shops around Tokyo before.

Even Taiyo Matsumoto, probably considered underground in the West, is sold everywhere.

I've hung around mangaka before, and it's a bit too Akihabara/circlejerky for me though.

>>82630670
I think it's a difference in industry. Like animation, serialized graphic stories are a much wider business in Japan. There's simply that many more professional companies and creators in Japan than the US. Comiket is interesting, because, while it is a bit porn focused, there are non porn fan books or original content. But they're basically only made to be sold for a single Comiket. If there are any serialized stories, they're released every Comiket and probably not reprinted.

So there's no real "independent" market, but there are a bunch more companies catering to the same kind of specific niches independent comics do in the US. And on that note, what's technically the definition of indie in the US? Just not DC or Marvel? Are Image and Dark Horse, fairly old and established publishers by this point, indie? Does it have to do with the level of creator control and ownership and not actually the ability to "independently" create and get your work out there? Maybe I'm just mapping the videogame definition of indie onto the comic one, which is no doubt a much older scene.

I mentioned web releases before, and it also makes me curious about web stuff in Japan. We only tend to hear about the ones that make it into the mainstream, so perhaps it only seems like the West has a much bigger independent scene online. I wonder if it's do to aggregation too? I know comics get put on Pixiv, while western web releases tend to prefer their own sites.

>>82630243
It's already got five episodes out, family

>>82628217
But even the one in the OP doesn't do this

>>82628456
>japanese characters
>no edge

>>82628257
>The west are typically built on a shared universe and stuck in a loose status quo.
There's another good reason for this: Western comic books are heavily inspired by mythology, to the point where many people argue that superhero teams like the Justice League or the Avengers are modern day pantheons. And in a lot of myths and legends, there's no true end, or a lot of cyclic stories or themes.

>>82630757
>Are Image and Dark Horse, fairly old and established publishers by this point, indie?
Basically, yeah. I realized halfway through my post that I had to relabel "indie" as underground, because otherwise the whole post kinda falls through on itself. "free paper" is its own scene in Japan, similar to zines in the 80s/90s in the West, but they're not the sort of serialized content that this thread is talking about.

I don't know about web releases since I stick to image boards (futaba, etc) and twitter, but yeah, I think pixiv and ameblo are mostly what's used. Japanese sites tend to be very large and modified for cell phone use, so like manga, it seems that "self-publishing" through your own independent channels are less traditional venues than in the West.

Manga makes so little money for the artists though, I don't think the same system of Patreon and payola donations for funding from fans is even a thing that occurs to most Japanese artists.

>>82630580
Self-published manga, or doujinshi, is huge in Japan. Most of it is (probably) fan works, but there's original stuff too. One Punch Man started as webcomic. And a lot of professionals start off by doing doujinshi, or other doujin works.

>>82630614
Making superhero comics more serious than before is not much of an evolution, and manga doesn't really have anywhere left to go anymore because of how expansive it is.

>>82629520
POST MORE

>>82630649
We're talking broadly about how much superhero properties like Batman have advanced over the decades. And they haven't really advanced. The characters are just reinvented over and over again by different authors. It won't stop until people lose interest. And it's this sort of thing that's been mostly driving American comic books.

>That's a joke right
Why would it be? It's true.

>Japan is like a country-sized case of ORIGINAL CHARACTER DO NOT STEAL
What does Japan have to do with Westerners fetishizing originality?

>>82630810
Not really, no.

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>>82629030
>just look at NGE, Madoka, One Piece, Naruto, etc
These aren't about "heroes", they are just people with powers that help people they care about.
West is all "Truth, Justice and the American Way", while the East is all "Peace, Prosperity and the Dreams of Man".

>>82629997
This is such bullshit.
Most of the "ground breaking" modern comics that indiefags like to rise up as the highest achievements of the medium are so obviously influenced by manga that it's ridiculus. Most of the "semi-autobiographical coming of age stories, but with a heavy use of surrealist imagery" is such an obvious rip off of old school shoujo and drama seinen that it's almost funny. Fuck, most of Image's current out put look and sound like weird shonen premisses with less action (tell me Wicked + Divine doesn't sound like a fucking shonen premisse).

The difference between manga and western comics, is that while comics became unfortunately forced to focus on a couple different genres due to the Comics Code, manga was free to expand to such a point you can find several series that fill a niche, and pratically demographics in Japan read comics, from teen boys and girls to adult housewifes and salaryman, and it's seen as normal, unlike here (as long as you don't go full otaku). Hell, Shonen Jump itself has: a romantic comedy, several gag mangas, a mahjong manga and a few comedies in between the big action series.

>>82629030
There is nothing wrong with being selfish

>>82630481
were talking about heroes.

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I remember we had similar discussions when that horrible anime of Tokyo ESP came out.

A shame really, because the manga is pretty charming.

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>>82628217

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>>82631671
They literally cut the best section of the entire manga, hich is Rinka dropkicking a superpowered hippo out of the sky.

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>>82628147

Boku No Hero AcademyXJustice League when?

I wanna see Billy Batson trying to enter the academy.
I wanna see Superman and All Might being pals and mentors to Deku.
I wanna see Batman telling bomb asshole to calm the fuck down.
I wanna see Diana as a professor in the Academy: "And this is how you cut a neck!"

>>82629678
Only two series do that and both of them are parodies.

The other series that focus on Superheroes are very far removed from that concept.

>>82629030
>what about the two most well known deconstructionist anime ever made?

>>82628147
What are the chances Boku no Hero gets an official crossover with one of the Big Two? Marvel seems to be pretty close with the East having that godawful Attack on Titan Crossover and I remember them even having Manga Cover Variants. (Heck they got an H-Artist to draw the A-Force variant)

>>82628147
are all the villains in BHA just full on edge? Like holy shit the villains they regularly face are just oozing with edge. I mean, are there no Super Villains who just decided to go bad because it's easy money?

>>82631863
Furk dat shit

I want Boku No Kero Academy X The Avengers

>>82631962
Bane chan is pretty cute

>>82628257
more like the west is built on a shared universe with regular EVENTS

>>82630094
>While in the west they were breaking patterns, in Japan they were finding them and solidifying them into this self-sufficient industry.

This is actually an extremely interesting observation that doesn't just end at cape comics in the east and west.

Anime/manga used to be a lot more experimental and adventurous. NGE, Utena, Ghibli, Ghost in the Shell, Akira, JoJo, etc etc. Now we just get a million fucking harem light-novel adaptions. Seriously we might as well call the last three years of anime Animated Light Novels.

Look at old American media. Cartoons, sitcoms, all the shit from the 40-80s. Incredibly formulaic laughtrack sitcoms, cartoons are incredibly well-animated but are all just a bunch of cartoon animals getting their slapstick on, by the numbers corny 80s action movies. I think the 90s is when everyone in the west wanted to start pushing boundaries and breaking patterns. After the late-80s release of Watchmen, everyone became obsessed with subverting the norms. Total Recall was essentially an corny 80s action movie, but with a bit of a cerebral twist. Seinfield was the first "sitcom about nothing" and was like nothing before it. 90s toons like Ren and Stimpy and Duckman tried to be as gross and unappealing as possible, while regular 90s saturday mornings got darker and more mature. Prime-years Simpsons just completely changed the game. Music got grungy as opposed to 80s music saccharine. And this all continues today. Comics are obsessed with breaking the rules and being "progressive" and "realistic." Sitcoms keep trying to avoid the "nuclear family" mold to varying degrees of success. Big-budget TV dramas are trying damn hard to be the next big innovative thing after the success of Sopranos and Breaking Bad. Rap is now some of the most intellectual and profound music you can listen to, no one wants to make "I'm gangster and sell drugs" music anymore.

Meanwhile, after the success of 2006's Haruhi, anime is becoming more and more formulaic.

>>82631947
I kind of want to see a Teen Titans cross over. Batson meeting Bakugou would be hilarious

>>82630557
So you're an /a/fag in denial who doesn't really get or like comics?

>>82630995
>not really no
So you're a weeb that watches moeshit and reads shounen, and even then only a very specific branch of it.
Good for you pal, good for you.

>>82629143
GTFO.
Trying to make characters realistic is something that exists before Miller.
Green Arrow team up green lanter with Speedy using drugs, Spider-Man or the fantastic four

>>82631293
>there are several different styles and genres!
>meanwhile the west's only different things are copies it japanese stuff
Do you even try to pretend not to be biased?

>>82628147
I would say the model for american heroes is Superman and old pulp characters.
Meanwhile japanese heroes are based on toku stuff

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>>82632012
>Now we just get a million fucking harem light-novel adaptions.
And shows such as Death Parade, Psycho-Pass, Ping Pong, Space Dandy, Concrete Revolutio, Joker Game, Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu, Gatchaman Crowds, Gangsta, Ranpo Kitan, Erased. Yuri Kuma Arashi (by the director of Utena). But since you don't actually watch anime you of course haven't seen or heard of any of these shows.

Why do you people keep doing this? You complain and complain and complain that anime is all "moeshit" or "haremshit" or "light novel adaptations," yet you never, ever pay any attention to any other kind of anime. What the hell is your problem?

>>82632024
What do you mean?

>>82632037
I'm not a weeb and I watch all kinds of anime. Did you have some kind of point in mind or did you just drop by to shitpost?

>>82632138
Why do weebs complain about muh generic capeshit but never go out of their way to read anything else?
Oh right.

>>82632156
What are you talking about?

>>82632138
and 90% of those are either complete garbage or they're so insufferably slow you'll fall asleep trying to watch them.

>>82632012
Japan went through an economic crisis which ended the era of totally sweet OVAs, but even during that period there was a fuckton of garbage.

Plus we still get good stuff nowadays. Ping Pong is one of the best shows I've ever watched and is more experimental than anything the west would air on regular television. It accomplished more character development in 11 episodes than most shows would do during a season.

Space Brothers is one of the most popular manga/anime in Japan, and is a non-edgy drama filled story about a guy trying to become an astronaut. It's fucking great.
When was the last time the west had a show about trying to accomplish your dreams w/o falling to simplistic tv cliches to move the plot along? Space Bros is 99 episodes of human interaction. It's fucking great.

Tatami Galaxy is about a man who doesn't know how good he has it and unknowingly keeps resetting time; each iteration starting with him making a slight change in his path.
Again, better than any show I've seen in the west. And it's only 11 episodes.

I can go on and on.

Anime is still great. And after watching the Animator Expo from last year, I only have hope for the future.

>>82632148
The point is you're the equivalent of a warhammer fag making a crossover thread on /tg/.
"We have it so much better, sure I don't actually know or acknowledge anything about your shit but meh WH is so good lol" all while denying your own preferences have their failings (if you actually think Japan doesn't face creative problems due to commercial and editorial/production issues then you are a dumbass).

>>82632173
>lol capeshit is so generic and has no innovations ever also all western shit is like that and the innovative stuff is just stealing from muh mangoos
>lol why do you westerns not acknowledge all the good japanese stuff? like oh em gee you guys keep pretending like it's all harem stuff, it's noot!

>>82631987

>The Avengers

Anon. All the kids would end up dead and the killer would join the Avengers.

>>82632199
What? No, everyone would live, join the avengers and get ready for the next event.
I'm pretty sure they hand out avengers membership cards in public restrooms.

>>82632174
People always say something like this, but in reality they haven't even heard of any of the shows listed. It's just damage control.

>>82632177
I still don't know what you're talking about.

>>82632193
>lol capeshit is so generic and has no innovations ever also all western shit is like that and the innovative stuff is just stealing from muh mangoos
Where did I say that?

>lol why do you westerns not acknowledge all the good japanese stuff? like oh em gee you guys keep pretending like it's all harem stuff, it's noot!
It's just factually incorrect to claim that modern anime is nothing but light novel adaptations (which doesn't even mean anything by itself as light novels are not a genre).

>>82632199
>Anon. All the kids would end up dead and the killer would join the Justice League

Ftfy

>>82632193
Not him, but I'm reading over the comments and you're over exaggerating for the sake of forming a strawman.

>>82632138
... you included the series that has the lesbian bears that trick girls into sexing with them so they can eat them afterwards...

>>82632239
Even something being an adaptation doesn't write it off as being bad.

Shirobako was one of the best anime to come out in recent years.

>>82632239
You are right, thought you were also the other anon.

>>82632272
Shirobako was anime original, not an adaptation.

>>82632249
>western stuff doesn't change and all cool stuff are jap ripoffs
>other comments talking about how innovative jap stuff is

Stop pretending, only fanboys think either one doesn't have issues. And talking specifics is easy, have a sense of dcale.

>>82632267
It's an arthouse type of series by the director of Utena.

>>82632272
Shirobako wasn't an adaptation. Sometimes original shows are preceded by a manga.

>>82632300
>>82632311
oh right, the manga came afterwards.

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>>82632012
>Rap is now some of the most intellectual and profound music you can listen to

>>82632314
The manga came a little earlier, and started almost simultaneously with the show.

>>82632311
>>82632300
Ok then.
Tatami Galaxy + Ping Pong are both great adaptations.

>>82632217
>I'm pretty sure they hand out avengers membership cards in public restrooms.

Man, the Avengers fucking let anyone in their ranks. From child killers like Wolverine to Yellow omnicidals maniacs.

You would guess that at least Cap would try to set a standard.

>it's another capeshit dick waving thread

>>82632370
>it's another pedophile cartoon watcher

>>82632138
I do watch anime. You're right in saying not a ton but I do, according to an anime tracker I've watched about a month and a half worth in my lifetime. So I'll comment on the shows I have seen.

>Space Dandy

Can give it credit for at least trying, it has amazing animation and soundtrack... but man was it horrible. I don't think I've seen a comedy anime less funny in my life, and comedy animes can be notoriously unfunny. Also, the only venues it found any success was Toonami, did horrible in its native Japan and on Crunchyroll. So we obviously won't be seeing a whole lot more of this kind of anime because it's not financially viable like LN adaptions are.

>Psycho-Pass

Made by a fucking hack of a LN writer, and this show, like Madoka before it, was profoundly stupid (even during its "good" season, I haven't even seen Season 2 which apparently manages to be even dumber). And yet it thinks it's very smart and deep for some reason, the very definition of "pretentious." And that's a word I don't use much, I hate how often people abuse that word but it's perfect for Urobuchi.

>Yuri Kuma Arashi

Sold like shit so don't expect more of it, and also is honestly not great.

>Ping Pong

I was turned off of this because the creator also made a highly experimental but shitty episode of Adventure Time. Is it better?

>Gangsta

Heard good things, haven't got around to watching yet.

>Erased

Heard wonderful things, will definitely watch.


Now, you listed a handful of recent anime. How much of that shit is there compared to all the LN adaptions? Now throw in all the anime are about playing MMOs that aren't already LN adaptions. Now throw in the rest of the moeshits and harems that don't happen to be LN adaptions. So what is your list of cherry-picked anime, like, being generous, 5% of anime in the last three years? Exactly. My point still stands, anime is getting formulaic. A handful of exceptions don't prove me wrong, there are also a bunch of generic American shows.

>>82628147

Japanese super heroes are more likely to side with Iron Man during Civil War and would wonder why Captain America is being a cunt about it.

>>82628147
Japan is really, really bad about giving superheroes names. Every single character in My Hero Academia reads like a word salad of generic superhero terms.

All Might
Present Mic
Lunch Rush
Best Jeanist
Buster Hero
Mount Lady
Muscular
Mustard

Seriously, it's not even a matter of bad translations. Manga authors just like stupid shit like that for some reason.

>>82632420
Ping Pong is probably the best thing in your post.

>>82632420
>Space Dandy
>Psychi Pass
>Horrible
>Gangsta
>Erased
>Heard good things
Confirmed either bait or shit tier taste.

also
>Anime is getting Formulaic
Getting? Its always been like that, its just become a different formula.
Fuck, if anything we're getting more good or at least unique anime now then we've had for a long time.

>>82632446
All Might is great, it's just a stupid pun off of All Right.

>>82632446
Because in Japan, English sounds like a cool foreign language. It doesn't sound weird to them because they're not used to the language like we are.
The West is guilty of this too, in media we'll often completely butcher foreign languages and not give a fuck.

>>82632242
We are talking about comics here, son.

>>82632511
list some off please

>>82629053

I read six volumes yesterday. A mamga has not hooked me like that since high school.

>>82632420
Ping Pong is actually amazing, Yuasa just adapted it so it's not like the shitty episode of Adventure Time. It just has the fluid animation without any of his awkward storytelling style.

>>82632545
And fuck that shit.

I'm talking MCU Avengers!

>>82632511
Psycho-Pass and Space Dandy are definitely shit. Especially PP, my god it was the worst kind of science fiction where it's really up its own ass but doesn't actually have the writing or thought put into it to back it up. At least SD was very flagrant about it mostly just being a show where the animators having fun with pulpier Flash Gordon-ish science fiction. I would normally be down to spend hours throwing walls of text debating this but it's my weekend and I think I'd rather get to playing video games soon.

I'll give you that it might just be a different formula. But going from a ton of manga adaptions (very diverse media) to a ton of LN adaptions (very narrow media) seems to have that effect.

>>82632175

There's definitely good stuff still being made, and I'll definitely check out both the anime you listed. I was mostly bitching about the increasingly formulaic majority of anime.

>>82632012
Samefag here, and I just wanted to add:

It's interesting how if you go to /a/ and bitch about how everything is an LN-adaption harem or MMO-anime, no one disagrees and there winds up being a lot of discussion of how things got this way. /a/ is very bitter about this too. Go to /co/ and say this, and you get anime apologists that cherrypick a few anime-originals and tell you about how much better anime is than anything from the West. Why is this?

>>82632639
All I know is that I don't want to hear people who go see every Marvel movie opening night call anime formulaic.

>>82632420
>So I'll comment on the shows I have seen.
So you have seen some of these shows and heard about the others. Or are you just pretending you have? Because if you have seen or heard of them, why did you claim that modern anime is nothing but light novel bogeyman adaptations? Shouldn't you know better? What's going on here?

>I don't think I've seen a comedy anime less funny in my life
Space Dandy is not a comedy series per se, it's an omnibus series by many different directors who were given a lot of creative freedom within a very limited framework.

>So we obviously won't be seeing a whole lot more of this kind of anime because it's not financially viable like LN adaptions are.
You mean like Nourin for example, which sold less than Space Dandy? Something being a light novel adaptation doesn't mean it's going to sell. Nobody buys something because it was adapted from a light novel. Shirobako, Love Live and Girls und Panzer are some recent successful shows that were not adapted from anything. Charlotte also sold pretty well.

>Made by a fucking hack of a LN writer
I think you're taking this light novel bogeyman meme a little too far now.

>Sold like shit so don't expect more of it
It's unlikely it was ever planned to get a continuation. Not all shows are done that way. And why do you even want a continuation when you're so obsessed with originality?

>I was turned off of this because the creator also made a highly experimental but shitty episode of Adventure Time.
An acclaimed anime director once made an Adventure Time episode, so now you won't watch his shows? Ok. Cool.

>How much of that shit is there compared to all the LN adaptions?
I only listed "artistic" and "mature" shows. There's a shit-tons of other shows besides those.

>>82632420
>>82632668
>Now throw in all the anime are about playing MMOs that aren't already LN adaptions.
Grimgar was actually a good show, but of course you won't watch it because muh MMO and LN bogeyman. And there aren't that many of these MMO-type shows anyway. Just don't watch them if they trigger you so much.

>Now throw in the rest of the moeshits and harems that don't happen to be LN adaptions.
There's a grand total of three moe shows this season. And "moeshit" and "haremshit" are just more bullshit bogeymen anyway.

>My point still stands, anime is getting formulaic.
It has been "formulaic" since at least the 80s when everyone was shitting out mecha anime, of which most people only remember Macross and Gundam. There are formulas everywhere, and anime is no exception.

>>82632639
>and there winds up being a lot of discussion of how things got this way
Bullshit. Someone will just call you a newfag, and mods will delete it.

>>82632639
/a/, like any anime community, is full of retards and casuals who don't know what they're talking about.

It simply is not true that modern anime is nothing but light novel adaptations which are also somehow supposed to all be shit by virtue of being light novel adaptations.

This season Anichart lists 5 light novel adaptations, 21 manga adaptations, and 9 original shows. Yes, there are in fact more original shows this season than light novel adaptations.

>>82632679
DON'T FORGET PATLABOR. TECHNICALLY 80'S.

>>82632639
>It's interesting how if you go to /a/ and bitch about how everything is an LN-adaption harem or MMO-anime, no one disagrees
Thats because /a/ is mainly made up of people who literally only watch whats popular at the time and won't bother to actually look up anything else.
There are a few alright folks there though. Just that talking to /a/ about good anime is like talking to /v/ about good vidya

>>82629053
Those lines are different lengths. I measured them.

Nothing mysterious about the 'devil's tuning fork'. You can beat a square into a circle with a hammer.

I see nothing impossible about that cube.

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>>82628456
>Bringing up Super Sentai
>Not this

>>82632979
I can't tell if you're being ironic or just retarded.

>>82633042
Is it a joke I'm missing?

>>82628456
>Another thing is that Japanese characters don't suffer from the doubt, conflict, ambiguity and edginess that seem to be afflicting American superheroes today.

But that's wrong. Melodrama is a staple of Japanese heroes. I can list a dozen characters off the top of my head that suffer from feelings of doubt and being edgy, and that's WITHOUT dropping into Go Nagai's body of work. Hell, even peppy characters like Sailor Moon go through their moments of angst and self-doubt.

Saying this is like saying that American heroes are the Punisher.

>>82630481
>typically
words mean things bro

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>>82632757

>mfw you realize that /co/ is also an anime community

>>82633053
Yeah, it's a joke image parodying the actual brain teaser images. It's not meant to be taken seriously.

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How come western superheroes now a days have such a problem with just, doing something because it's the right thing to do? Why do we need some tragic backstory to motivate someone to stop a mugger? Or a robbery? Or an attempted murder? Don't we wish to stop those because it's the right thing to do to stop hurting other people?
Why can't we just be allowed to be heroic anymore?

>>82633244
Because that's boring
:^)

>>82633244
Because people think that being altruistic is unrealistic.

I played in a superhero game and had my character turned down because the GM didn't think that my supergenius wouldn't be a superhero because they didn't have a reason to be.

>>82633135
I mean comprehensive doubt, conflict, ambiguity and edginess that reflect the state of America today. You can see all over the place how things have gotten muddled and dark like nobody is sure about anything more and everything is suspect.

>>82633298
Pretend there's no double negative there.

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>>82633244

>>82633304
So, because you're not reading comics with cheerful protagonists, that means that none of America's heroes are fun, happy characters? Because happy characters don't reflect America?

>>82633244
Man that could actually be a really cool premise for a superhero story. Have a guy, in a world full of edgey tragic anti-heros, decide to be a hero just because it's the right thing to do. Let this guy embody all the righteousness and idealism of the old eras of comics. And let his desire to reaffirm pure, altruistic goodness in the world be the driving drama of the story. A hero being a hero just to be heroic would actually be very subversive these days.

Could be hella good.

>>82633349
The current superhero flagship titles are Batman vs. Superman and Civil War.

>>82633325
I gotta watch more Kamen Rider.

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>>82628147
West have The Plutonian

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>>82633395
It's some good shit. Give it a watch.

>>82633386
Flagship movies. Not comic book titles. Even so, not all of the comics match that tone. They may be the most visible examples at the moment (and even so, Civil War is hardly as grim and joyless as BvS), but attempting to hold them up as a model of behavior for ALL AMERICAN COMICS at the moment is a stretch and you know it.

>>82633395
Kuuga's a good series. The CG is... very questionable, though. It was made on a relatively low budget in 2000. It's not all like this, though. The MC is generally a very cheerful character.

>>82633385
So Superman?
Captain America?

>>82633244
Superman. Captain America.

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>>82633325
>all those people that he couldn't save
>though the monster is gone,this burning rage inside yet remains
>and there's nothing he can do about it
>he failed to protect hose smiles

>>82633459
>attempting to hold them up as a model of behavior for ALL AMERICAN COMICS at the moment is a stretch and you know it.
Good thing I wasn't doing that, then.

>>82628147
Why did you post a corpse in the OP?

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>>82633395

>>82633325
Pretty hardcore stuff. Aren't these targeted at kids?

>>82633525
Then why lean so heavily on those two as the 'flagship titles'?

>>82633198
4chan on the whole is an anime community, no matter how hard some try to deny it

>>82633573
They're a sign of the times.

>>82629770
Sounds like someone's not keeping up to date with berserk one piece naruto detective Conan or hunter x hunter

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>>82633572
Not all seasons are as violent or brutal. Agito, the season that came after, was a bit toned down (Though the deaths of civilians was still all the more gruesome).
Kuuga I believe was a re-imagining/Retelling of the classic Kamen Rider series and was trying to be different. Latter seasons were much more kid friendly (And heavily Toyetic). it all Culminated in Den-O when it went full blown toys everywhere, many colorful characters, "BUY OUR TOYS" type of show.
But don't get me wrong, Den-O is fantastic as swell, even if it's heavily comedic.
>tfw Ryuotaro will never return
>tfw you will never Climax from start to finish ever again

>>82633572
Japan's got looser rules for kid's shows than America. That said, this is pretty much the most brutal fight of the series. Most of them aren't this brutal.

Not to say that they aren't awesome at times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOohlactCis

I believe that the defining difference is that in manga, the original creators retain ownership of their characters and stories, while in the west it's the studio that owns everything, thereby constraining what is published to the whims of executives or editors. Also it seriously screws over the original creators out of deserved pay for big successes.

>>82633700
While I agree with you in part, about studio ownership and so on , you really, really underestimate EDITOR-KUN.

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>>82633244
The world needs more fights while the hero is transforming/suiting up

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American media really lacks noble, courageous and graceful heroes like Momoka Sonokawa.

>>82632980
The only Japanese Super Heros worth talking about.

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>>82633581
You're full of shit, matey.

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>>82628147
Western comics have a billion issues and events that all go into each other a weird times

>Reading T-man issue 12
>Get to the end
>TO BE CONTINUED IN T-MAN'S ORIGIN PRE CRISIS MULTIVERSE SPECIAL ONE
>mfw

>>82633871
That seems shopped.

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>>82633244

>>82628147
Spandex and a unified narrative.

That's about it.

>>82628480
Stain was right

>>82628147
Well in Japan they don't usually keep a comic running for decades and decades and decades, having dozens upon dozens of different writers of varying quality handle the characters.

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>>82633825
Agreed, she has a strong moral core to the degree of Snyder's Batman

>>82633304
Japan basically invented, or at least typified, the brooding anti hero

>>82633745
That's a fair assessment. My only exposure to Japanese editing standards is from Bakuman, but my general impression was that if you want to publish something, you can find a studio willing to do it, or self publish relatively easily. Naturally a more popular manga would be subject to greater scrutiny from editors, but it seemed like their main job is to maintain consistency and to make the product more appealing and sell better, not necisarally changing the entirety of the artists vision. whereas in the west a committee would think of ideas for a comic, somebody would storyboard it, then it'd be picked apart by editors so that it fit the studios vision for the character.

Of course that could be entirely wrong, the process of making comics (eastern or western) is something I want to learn more about

>>82633590
>hunter x hunter

Hisoka is gonna win the fight against Chrollo. Calling it.

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>>82633919
>gif
>that file size
>that resolution
Godai would be ashamed.

>>82634011
pretty sure those've been around since the 1930s, brah

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>>82630974

>>82634011
Since when?

I'm not saying there are no anti heroes in Japanese media, and this is about more than just characterization anyway.

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>>82634039
>That attitude

Godai wouldn't cut someone down like that. He'd happily offer them a higher quality item.

>>82634027
Nah lad, it's not as easy as you think it is. You're going of an idealized version of the industry.

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>>82634067
Shit, anon. You're right. What the hell was I thinking? He would be ashamed of me.

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>>82633244
Why don't heroes try to eat the villain's face any more?

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>>82634091
because they don't want to steal Ama-san's thunder.

>>82634027
I think in Japan you just submit a manga to a publisher like you would submit a novel in America. There are also competitions.

A no doubt highly realistic rendition of manga publishing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMdU_OT0fgU
Though the story is based on the author's own life.

>>82628147

They are pretty similar and I like them both.

Japs like highschool more?

>>82634027
I think it depends. Self publicising is definitely a thing and a major one at that, but in big publishing magazines EDITOR-KUN is notorious for affecting the story and characters.
Like literally "add a rival, they're popular, don't make this batman make him have superpowers, turn that into a girl" and so on levels.

>>82634081
I was almost positive that is the case. I just wanted to believe in a bastion of creative liberty that simply doesn't exist. I can live with that

>>82632782
Well patlabor is actually good. Because for ones mechas arent in space.

>>82634185
I'm not saying it's hell, it's just not that easy.

>>82634039
Godai wouldn't care, he'd be too busy protecting our smiles.

>>82634245
>Because for ones mechas arent in space.
>he can't into Gundam: Thunderbolt

I'm sorry, anon.

And Patlabor wasn't great because of landmechas, it's great because of the cast.

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Trigger makes me nostalgic for the golden age of Cartoon Network

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Regardless of the differences between the heroes of the east and west I think we can all agree that seeing them team up could be incredibly badass...or it could just end up like Supaidaman and Leopardon in Spiderverse.

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Which hero would you academia?

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>>82634330
Coincidentally, Luluco is voiced by:

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>>82634392
puffy froggy vulva

>>82634363
Unfortunately, Cap is a little lower on the power scale than Kamen Riders.

Kamen Rider Number One was a little absurd. He could hear and see for a kilometer, he could karate chop through a meter-thick tree, he could bend steel support beams with a punch, and then they actually added up the amount of force he dished out with every punch and kick.

Turns out his punches have about thirty tons of force behind them, while his kicks have about forty tons.

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>>82634363
From what I've seen, Kamen Rider has been Slowly inching it's way towards the west in recent years. Wasn't there a cameo/easter egg in a transformers comic once?

If they were to attempt to bring one of the series to the west agian, I can totally see them try Drive. It fits the western tastes so well.
>Red
>Cars
>detective/cop
>hot-blooded

>>82634408
This picture is creepy as fuck.

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>>82634413
Those were his OG stats, though weren't they? He's significantly stronger by now.

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>>82634427

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>>82629520
>>82634055
>Thread with Hero Academia in the OP
>Come in expecting frogs
>Instead there's actual discussion and japanese bug men
This is weirdly satisfying.

>>82634427
I like drive but I also think it would be a bad start as it's base is so different from normal. He has a car and doesn't look like much of a bug man

They could make Mach the main suit I guess

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>>82634392
Clearly the one that would provide the most sensual experience.
Well, most sensual without acid melting your dick off.

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>>82634468
Man, is it so hard to make suits like in The First/Next? They were oddly perfect updated suits of the originals, although should have dropped the collars. I could have seen those suits working well for western releases.
Least the OG Suits are still iconic. You can't fix perfection.

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>>82634427
Amazon had a cameo, so did V3, interestingly V3's transformer was a Decepticon, in Japan they're called Destrons and Destron was the organisation V3 fought.

>>82629006
>Naruto
Naruto sucks and isn't indicative of Manga as a whole no matter how popular it is.

>>82634451
They, that's the second Kamen Rider. Kamen Rider Number 2 has more raw power but is less skilled than Rider 1. V3 combined both the power of 2 and the skill of 1, thought hat was back in the 70s and by this point the seven legendary Riders (even Riderman) are all op as fuck.

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>>82633418
This. Show me a better Hero.

>>82634465
>I was the beam that fell on your partner IT WAS ME SHINNOSUKE!

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>>82634571
I'm probably in the minority in not really liking Riderman, even go as far as to not really consider him a Rider. His character was kind of bland, and his suit was pretty bad in comparison to the Double Riders and V3, that's not counting all future iterations of other Riders. Riderman is just bland as hell.

>>82629030
>NGE, Madoka
Neon Genesis is about a boy thrust into a conflict without a say and him trying to cope with that while also coping with his depression and social anxiety. You expecting him to be selfless in that situation is retarded.

Madoka Magica ends with Madoka sacrificing her own existence to end the suffering of every other magical girl.

One Piece and Naruto are literally aimed at children and have no real place in this discussion. But I'll point out that Naruto went full Ninja Jesus in the end to the point where everything else was secondary to his goal of saving the world. Him becoming Hokage in the end is just an inevitability of him succeeding in literally saving the world.

Not that any of Naruto's ending was well written, mind you.

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>>82634512
you've seen 3 right?

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>>82634597
If Shin counts as a Rider then so does Riderman.

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>>82634612
I have, and it's basicaly just adding on to the base OG look.
It's true, my friend. All of hte best looking suits in the series are all based on the base look from the original series.
>bug eyed/big ass visors
>relatively slim form
>chest pads

>>82634643

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>>82634427

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>>82628456
>Another thing is that Japanese characters don't suffer from the doubt, conflict, ambiguity and edginess that seem to be afflicting
American superheroes today

>>82634512
It's a shame we have probably missed the boat on the first suits ever being used. Then again I have no idea what the policy is on loaning the sentai suits out

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>>82628147
The main difference between the West and the East is that Japan rarely pulls off a total tonal shift between issues and spin offs like American comics do.

The main difference in Japan is that you've usually got one writer for every series, while in America you get several writers for the same long running series, and that's not mentioning the spin offs.

So you get stuff like pic related in America, where glorious Justice Seeking warriors get maimed horribly in spin offs or other sorts of stories by sadistic writers.

Or then you get a Spiderman being happy, then selling his marriage to the devil, then being happy cause he is a teenager again, and then there's up and downs and then Spiderman gets killed and replaced by the Superior Spiderman.

And then Spiderman is a happy teenager again.

American comics are a roller-coaster of the edgy and the inspiring. And sadly, the edgy often paints the view many people have of American comics being always dramatic and sad and dark.

At least Japanese comics keep the tone relatively consistent all throughout.

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>>82634427
>>82634529
>>82634685

>>82630175
>By actually reading both?
If you actually read manga in any serious sense you wouldn't believe that.

>>82634660
Agreed, The best suits are the original 2 Black/RX, ZO,J and Double/Cyclone and Joker. .

Manga villains die pretty frequently.

>>82628456
Someone's obviously never watched Kamen Rider. Takeshi is constantly reminded especially in earlier episodes about what he has lost and how far removed from humanity he feels.

>>82634777
Read the thread.

>>82634735
Autobots, transform and climax!

>>82634804
That's lewd

>>82633572

Considering that bastard murdered a ton of civilians, he's understandably upset.

>>82634785
Man, someone needs to get Haruto, I bet Takumi is feeling a bit of despair.

>>82628147
The East focuses on long detailed stories while the West focuses on short stories geared to a specific audience.

>>82630481
Can you read? It's OK if you can't, just go to Youtube.

>ITT: /co/tards equating anime and manga

I feel the need to inform you all that anime and manga are different mediums with different creative processes and motivations.

When people say that anime/manga has become repetitive and uninspired I feel that they take a glance at the seasonal anime release charts and start mouthing off about both as if they are the same.

The truth is is that Manga is the same as its always been. Which is thousands of different magazines aimed at every imaginable demographic. If you are having a hard time finding mature and creative stuff then its either that you aren't looking hard enough or that it hasn't been translated. Because at the end of the day, hundreds of series go untranslated and un-uploaded.

Manga is ever present in Japanese culture in a way that Comics haven't been in decades. While the big two tries to increase sales by pandering to whatever they think sells the most while Indies try and fail to break in, the manga industry keeps chugging as it always has.

The people saying that manga is getting more childish need to get a fucking clue.

Anime on the other hand, is much different. You have the kids shows(alot of which are shonen manga adaptions) which people usually know about, and then you have the Niche shows that are aimed at Otaku(most anime in general). The late night Otaku shows are widely considered nerdy in Japan and aren't ever present. Sometimes there's shows like Attack on Titan that are more mature and manage to break out into popularity but these are the exception, not the rule.

Saying that anime is less creative nowadays is somewhat accurate considering they have a much smaller demographic to pander to(Hardcore waifufagging otaku) but even then, most of the shows you people consider "uncreative" are usually adaptions of Light Novels(Novels aimed at young adults). Original anime(And by that I mean non-adaptions) are few and far between, but when they do come out, they usually are creative.

>>82635019
Still better than Western Cartoons tho

>>82634392
That one is the best famalam

>>82634706
He was justified

>>82635019
>otaku
Ruined anime

>>82635019
cont.
These creative anime original shows are rare because they have a high chance of being unsuccessful(hardcore otaku being the fickle bunch of shut ins that they are) and are made on the dime of the studio, which is different from adaptions because the companies that publish the original work usually pay studios to adapt it into anime as a form of advertisement.

All that being said, original anime are on the rise again and the general quality seems to be going up as studios are putting more faith in their own works once more.

>>82635061
>otaku
>Ruined anime
Otaku are the ones willing to pay for the BD releases. Expecting companies to pander to anyone other than the people actually buying their niche shit is retarded. As I said here
>>82635099
Original anime is on the upswing again, but I think that's because anime as a whole is becoming more mainstream and the reliance on Otaku is slowly(slowly) receding.

>>82635019

What a load of bullshit.

There's no way someone who actually read manga and watched anime through the years would actually, unbiasedly claim that it HASN'T become repetitive and uninspired at all. It obviously has.

An industry that uses itself as inspiration instead of looking outside of its hivemind will always get distilled into its most basic elements.

> While the big two tries to increase sales by pandering to whatever they think sells the most while Indies try and fail to break in, the manga industry keeps chugging as it always has.

99% of manga and anime are LITERALLY just pandering and they don't even try to hide that.

>>82634245

Patlabor is good but not because it doesn't involve space.

>>82635156
read more manga
stop equating anime and manga

>>82635156
My point is that anime and manga are different, and while anime has become repititive(due to a reliance on Otaku and LN adaptions) manga is different because there's so MUCH of it.

You claiming to have a handle on the manga industry is a load of bullshit, there are thousands upon thousands of manga series and while each magazine panders to a demographic there are magazines for every demographic, including people who want more underground creative things.

You're uninformed and biased, and it shows.

>>82635191
>>82635199

Well hurr fucking durr, we also have thousands and thousands of underground comics in the west, but we're specifically talking about mainstream stuff in this thread.

>>82628147
No faggy no-kill rule, no attempts at "srs real world issues".

In short, Japan is just better at coming up with superhero concepts. America seems to be better at making the actual comics though.

>>82635019
>they have a much smaller demographic to pander to(Hardcore waifufagging otaku)
Pandering doesn't exist, and if people who watch late night anime were all just "waifufags" then late night anime would look a lot different than it does now (how does Sakamoto Desu ga fit into waifufagging?).

This season there are more original anime shows than there are light novel adaptations.

>>82635061
>otaku ruined anime
Myth.

>>82635099
>hardcore otaku being the fickle bunch of shut ins that they are
I didn't know shut-ins visit maid cafes, get together to make manga and games, and attend conventions.

>original shows are made on the dime of the studio
Maybe some have been, but normally a production committee is put together, and not necessarily by the studio. Madoka Magica got started when Shaft and Aniplex started talking about making a new show after working together on Hidamari Sketch.

>>82628147
does the anime do the manga justice?

>>82629396
>The way Marvel forces these SJW "problems" though? It's ridiculous, unnatural and overall disgusting.

This,
Tell a female cop about "mansplaining" and she won't have ANY idea of what the fuck that means
Yet you've got WW, who fights superpowered villains and mythological creatures, addressing it

>>82635134
Anime has always been mainstream. Late night anime didn't really start until the late 90s. It's otaku culture that is becoming more mainstream.

>>82635156
>There's no way someone who actually read manga and watched anime through the years would actually, unbiasedly claim that it HASN'T become repetitive and uninspired at all. It obviously has.
You obviously don't watch anime. Which is ironic.

>99% of manga and anime are LITERALLY just pandering and they don't even try to hide that.
Pandering doesn't exist.

>>82635219
1) Says you.
2) Nice movement of the goalpost
3) HunterxHunter publishes in the most mainstream of any magazine and while it appears like a standard shonen at the beginning it quickly begins to subvert it.


>>82635245
read >>82635134
Your essentially agreeing with what I said. Originals are on the rise again. As are adaptions of more out there concepts like Sakamotou. Say what you want but there was a period of at least three years where there were almost no originals and LN adaptions reigned supreme. We're just leaving that period now, and I think anime becoming more mainstream is the cause of that.

You're absolutely right about the production comittees but my rant was already long and I don't think /co/ is going to respond to anything I've said with anything but anger anyways.

>>82635321
>Anime has always been mainstream. Late night anime didn't really start until the late 90s. It's otaku culture that is becoming more mainstream.

I know, the shows aimed at kids have always been mainstream. I pointed out the difference in my first post here
>>82635019

What are /co/-approved animes?

>>82635354
Think for yourself you sheep. Watch things that seem interesting and form your own opinions.

>>82635273
I don't even know what mansplaining is, and I keep seeing it brought up like its some legitimate complaint against men.

>>82635219
>thousands and thousands of underground comics
No we don't, stop lying. We have a few hundred at absolute best.

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>>82632403
Hey! I read comics.

>>82633325
>the entire fight is Kuuga curbstomping the guy, he doesn't say anything while quiet suspenseful music plays in the background.
I immediately remembered the instances when Spider Man gets serious.

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>>82635263
Some complained it is a bit slow but yeah it is a pretty good adaptation

>>82635345
>Say what you want but there was a period of at least three years where there were almost no originals and LN adaptions reigned supreme.
What period was that?

>We're just leaving that period now, and I think anime becoming more mainstream is the cause of that.
Light novels are pretty mainstream, and there are still plenty of light novel adaptations. And why would late night anime becoming more mainstream even mean a decline in light novel adaptations and an increase in original shows? Anime has always been heavy on adaptations. Live action television and movies are also full of adaptations.

>>82635354
narutoe and one piece

>>82630198

Superheros self-regulated beacuse of government pressure to purge everything else. They didn't win by any merit of virtue, the explosion came after the purge not the other way around.

>>82628147
Japanese heroes don't really fight crime. Not the Kamen Riders, not the various Super Sentai Rangers, not anyone really.

They have a certain foe they have to defeat and after that's done, that's it. While western heroes have their Injustice Leagues and Masters of Evil to break the monotony of the purse snatchers and free agents, Japanese superhero antagonists are chiefly compromised of those so it's less about metahumans protecting the peace than it is two gangs engaging in a protracted thinly-veiled tournament arc.

Even in more western-oriented shows like One Punch Man, Hero Academia, and Tiger & Bunny, superheroism there is routinely obsessed with rankings and metrics.

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>>82634706
Coolest guy is worse

>>82635493
>What period was that?
Don't play stupid it. 2012-2014 had almost no originals in it.


>Light novels are pretty mainstream, and there are still plenty of light novel adaptations. And why would late night anime becoming more mainstream even mean a decline in light novel adaptations and an increase in original shows? Anime has always been heavy on adaptations. Live action television and movies are also full of adaptations.

Light novels as a whole are mainstream. Generally ONE genre of LNs have been getting adapted lately. Anime has always been heaving on adaptation, you're right, but what they adapted was more varied when it was usually manga. Its moving back more towards manga now and it shows with the increase in variance.

Look, I realise you're one of the /a/ users who thinks anime is perfect because you get what you want out of it no matter what, but that's more a symptom of your low standardsshit-taste rather than anime actually being in a good state.

>>82635568
I am not sure from where are you getting the "thinly-veiled tournament arc" thing from, but yeah, most of the time, these heroes fight a designated arch-nemesis group, there's hardly any mundane crime-fighting. Even Super Robot shows, when they fall into the "earth defence" subgenre, they usually fight against a known designated threat or evil empire.

>>82635654
>"thinly-veiled tournament arc"
His experience is probably limited to shonen anime.

>>82629053
it's just a bad anime that is trying too hard to copy western comics.

I like them both but for me the main difference is that when I'm reading a manga I can expect the story to end (even it if takes a lifetime) and stuff like deaths to matter,

I kind of lose interest in ongoing comic book series for that reason, but self contained one shots work for me there, so it's all good I guess.

>>82635568
I dunno about that. While rankings and metrics are absolutely a thing in the series you mentioned they only seem to be there to say "the protagonist doesn't give a crap about the rankings because he's a real hero". That's a distinction that's worth noting.

The only one that kind of seems to care about metrics is Hero Academia and even then it's framed more as a "Deku needs to become the new symbol of peace" issue.

>>82635637
I ran an AniDB search. There were 99 original TV anime between 2012-01-01 and 2014-12-31. Between 2007 and the end of 2011 there were fewer originals: only 92.

>Generally ONE genre of LNs have been getting adapted lately.
There have been at least harems, dramas, "trapped in an MMO" stories, and magic high school stories.

>Look, I realise you're one of the /a/ users who thinks anime is perfect because you get what you want out of it no matter what, but that's more a symptom of your low standardsshit-taste rather than anime actually being in a good state.
Or maybe anime isn't actually made for you and you aren't the arbiter of what is good and bad in anime.

Kamala and Deku fanart when?

>>82636001
>lewd Kamala and Deku fanart when?

>>82635888
I also ran a search to determine that the number of light novel adaptations has been increasing since 2008, but so has the number of original shows.

>>82632420

>watches adventure time
>criticizes anime for being unfunny and stupid

>>82633506

You mean
>Man of Murder
>Ok Cap is still pretty good guy

>>82632420
>I was turned off of this because the creator also made a highly experimental but shitty episode of Adventure Time. Is it better?

What the fuck are you talking about? That episode is consider one of the best if not the best adventure time episode. Get better taste faggot

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>>82634392
There's only one right anwser

The only take away I get from these thread is that most of every thing sucks and fan only remember the good stuff.

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>>82636451
This guy gets it.

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>>82633244
We still have some heroes like that anon. When writers remember how to write the characters

>>82636319
>Superman has a subpar movie
> /tv/ meme won't go away
Why does this hurt.

>>82635637
>/a/
>thinking anime is perfect
Have you even been on /a/

>>82635019
this nigger gets it

>>82633422
Man Drive picked the fuck up towards the end.

>It says go

>>82635454

I have only watched the first two episodes so far. They slow things down but it did tr to establishing the background heroes. If it is more than 13 episodes could see later episodes giving more focus to the battles of other characters. Like actually seeing more of the USJ battles and showing off more of the tournament fights. I honestly feel like things are moving too slow for only 13 episodes. I read that number isn't actually official.

>>82634162
>Japs like highschool more?

The Japs idealize high school life because all they have to look forward to in adult life is this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po8IPh64rVM

Correct me if I'm wrong.

>>82638251
>tfw they all died

Heart was too pure for this world

>>82638361
>Heart Movie out of fucking nowhere
I've not enjoyed a rider villain this much since Eternal.

>>82628147
Japan doesn't give a shit about SJW.

>>82629053
I read about 15 chapters the week before the anime started and I thought it was just average

Did the same with one punch and thought it was great

>>82636900

Alien Girl is best girl.

>>82629030

>One Piece

all the best, most important and most popular sentiments in One Piece are about brotherhood, friendship and sacrifice

>>82638782
I think he means in the sense they're all striving for something and aren't a traveling band of dogooders. Luffy wants to be King, Zoro wants to be top sword, etc. Spidey just is out to save lives there's no endgame.

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>>82634036
Of course, Hisoka has Bungee Gum, which has the properties of both rubber and gum.

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>>82638704
Ye

>>82638892

Spidey is constantly learning that putting himself above others is a bad thing. This can be said of a lot of American superheroes. You're essentially

That's not generally something you see as much of in manga.

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>>82639094
What this girl from?

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>>82639527
Boku No Hero Academia

>>82639835
BIG

>>82629053
you are lying,there is nothing of value in that shit manga.
just naruto disguised in a hero setting to fool people to read it.
also doesn't help that its nothing but training arcs and training arcs and no real villain appears thats not street thug level.

oh and also,it surprisingly uses every single possible cliché found in battle shonens,yet its fans are spouting bullshit that its very different and got depth and other bullshit when it has nothing of the sort.

>>82639883

>Academia
>the plot is about hero school
>why are all these training arcs here

Anon do you ever find that thinking is not your strong suit

>>82639933
haha,nice way of dodging the main question,anyway,there are no major villains until way way later.
also,just cause its called academia does not excuse it from having nothing but shitty training arcs.
just stop being in denial and grow up,the manga is shit,stop forcing yourself to like it,cause there is nothing interesting it it whatsoever.

>>82637117
Get used to it. We have to share this board with /tv/ because bitching about it will just get you deleted or banned.

>>82640071

>way later

Dude it's less than 100 chapters, Manga is just slow as fuck. We got the handsy guy, all the league of villain stuff and now the guy bankrolling the league of villains. That's actually pretty fast for manga.

imo Boku has a lot of awkward spots and the villains are 100% unlikeable so they kinda suck if you wanna talk flaws. every villain is IRREDEEMABLE SOCIOPATH MASS MURDERER who occasionally spouts something zealous.

if they did alternate training arcs with street level crime gang busting(you know like light witty spiderman style arcs) it'd be a lot tighter imo

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>>82639835
At least post a /co/ related image.

>>82640612
dude for the last time stop defending a shitty manga

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>>82640633

>>82640646

Ya got me son

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>>82639835

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>>82639835
>>82640633
>>82640654

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>>82639835
>>82640633
>>82640654