Pushing the "Trinity" is what ruined Wonder Woman

>>82579445
the left WW didn't sell
the right WW makes women feel she's important

>what is a republican woman? for 500.

>>82579487
>the left WW didn't sell
Current WW doesn't really sell either

Different interpretations.

A compassionate hero is something that works really hard in superhero comics. If the hero's compassion changes the villain, that's minus one villain for the publisher, and not lot of people will create new ones when they can't own them. And if the hero's compassion doesn't change the villain, then that compassion just looks pointless, wasted, and actively endangering other people's lives the next time the villain is mass-murdering.

>>82579570
Batman and Superman are both pretty compassionate to their villains without suffering those problems

WW now is LESS compassionate than those two and that's just wrong

>>82579445
What the fuck is she trying to pull there on the right? Why the hell are Doctor Psycho, Cheetah and Giganta still running around then, to say nothing of Ares and Circe who at least have the excuse of being immortal.

One thing Marston's run that successive WW runs haven't done enough with since was the whole redemption angle, Diana used to tie people up and bring them back to Paradise Island for rehabilitation. That should be why she doesn't have to deal with so many rogues in her gallery, not her neck-snapping habit. If she can reform a fucking card carrying Nazi Baroness, then she shouldn't have to fight the same ten people over and over again.

>>82579659
>Ares
He a good boy now

They literally turned her arch-nemesis into an occasional supporting character
making WW "the (reluctant) god of war" says it all

>>82579537
Wonder Woman doesn't sell well in general

>>82579659
She killed Ares.

>>82579747
Neither does IM but the changes to his character while perverse are at least understandable and should work in theory (>muh MCU)

>>82579445
Johns wrote Infinite crisis without having read ANY Wonder Woman book

>>82579659
WW doesn't have popular villains don't think about it too hard
Its just an in universe reasoning to justify her only really having 3 iconic villains in her entire history

>>82579797
Same could be said about GL but they don't feel the need to rewrite him as a murderer

>>82579797
Still one more compared to Arthur. Or 3 compared to J'onn and Cyborg.

>>82579832
GL does kill though so that can be used as an excuse

>>82579445
WW does have a great list of supervillains, it's just that most of them are garbage and forgettable. The only interesting WW villains i know are Ares and Giganta.

>>82579620
>Batman and Superman are both pretty compassionate to their villains without suffering those problems
Actually they do, and it makes them look stupid and ridiculous.

>>82579445
What ruined Wonder Woman was nobody having any goddamn idea what to do with her after Marston left because her character concept was both strange and controversial. She wasn't "ruined" at Flashpoint, or "Infinite Crisis." She's had mostly the same problems for half a century now.

>>82579907
Superman/Batman showing compassion are always great moments

>>82579445
Isn't frame 2 "Post Flashpoint"?

>>82579786
Anon, if you really think Iron Man's history ISN'T full of absolute bullshit, you haven't read him long.

>>82579956
Late 90's and early 00's WW was good, try Jimenez run

>>82579969
Similar character to post-IC, both Warrior Woman

>>82579893
>They're great, it's just that they're complete shit.

What, anon?

>>82579570
You would have a point if they weren't just having her kill villains now. With redemption they can at least stick around as supporting cast.

>>82580019
Yeah i used the wrong word i wanted to say that she has a lot of villains but that most of them are lame

>>82579790
Yeah and it shows since with Amazo Virus and Darkseid War happened after he read some runs, including Jimenez's which most people tend to forget, and now his Wondy isn't as blood thirsty

>>82579893
Clearly you don't know Dr. Poison.

>>82579570
The answer is stop being overly reliant on pure marketing tactics. That shit just does not work for long term iconography.

>>82580060
>just having her kill villains now.
Her villains now are just random greek gods and mythological shit, they feel like filler villains

They need to stop this shit and go back to fighting regular human supervillains

>>82579445
What's left from? That's a good Wondy quote.

Also, being pushed in the trinity isn't what's wrong with Wondy. IIRC, they've been pushing the Trinity since before IC.

The problem is that DC doesn't know what to do with her most of the time, up to and including her role on the Trinity. Every fucking writer since post-Crisis iirc has wiped the slate clean completely every time they've given the book to work with, meaning every Wondy run has had severely different tones, supporting casts, villains, different takes on Greek mythology, etc. Not to mention Wondy's characterization. They don't know whether to make her a badass Amazon who isn't afraid to kill, unlike Supes or Batman, or someone who'd rather avoid conflict at all if given the chance, especially physical conflict (pro-tip DC, the latter is probably the way to go considering that she's a female superhero after all). It's not consistent in the least.

With WW: Earth One, we're only just now getting a Wonder Woman who tries to solve matters peacefully and is actually written with a female psychology in mind. That's the way she SHOULD be written.

As for the Trinity, she should fill several niches: first of all, she is from a Greek mythology background, thus she should deal with matters involving various myths and legends from all around the world. You could even do something with this involving the Multiverse. Maybe her status is special somehow because she's a demi-goddess.

Second, her role should be that of a non-violent protester, only getting her hands dirty and fighting when she absolutely NEEDS to. She should be written so that she can do everything she can to avoid bloodshed, being more of a pacifist or even a guile heroine, but someone who has more power and fighting ability than most people on Earth, an Amazon who can and WILL kick the shit out of you if she feels like she'd protect innocents that way.

(1/2)

>>82580092
Well yes actually i dont know her

>>82580169
(2/2)

What they need to do is follow Morrison's example, in addition to doing for Wondy what Johns did for Green Lantern, then put out an editorial mandate saying, "Okay, this is Wonder Woman. Let's try to stick to this for 10 years and push this version of Wondy in the media."

>>82580190
>Let's try to stick to this for 10 years and push this version of Wondy in the media."
This is exactly what they are doing and that's the problem, they've chosen the wrong version of her

She is now a warrior
Her signature weapon is a sword, not her lasso

Good post though

>>82580086
Yeah, the change wasnt even subtle.

>>82580271
>This is exactly what they are doing and that's the problem, they've chosen the wrong version of her
>She is now a warrior
>Her signature weapon is a sword, not her lasso
I agree, that's not quite the Wondy that I want or the one that makes the most sense. You can see WHY they'd go with that, since she's an Amazon and was trained in combat after all, not to mention the obvious parallels with Xena: The Warrior Princess. But just because they can doesn't mean they should. I'm alright with the warrior stuff if she's loving and compassionate at her core and only fights when she needs to, like in Azzarello's run. But you also get a sense that it isn't what the character is all about.

Though I have to admit, Greg Rucka being on Wonder Woman: Rebirth quells some of my worries, since I think he has a better grasp on the character than most other writers.

>>82580384
>Azzarello's run
It was shit

>>82580686
Is it the one with the rapists amazons ?

>>82579659
>Diana used to tie people up and bring them back to Paradise Island for rehabilitation

The idea of rehabilitating criminals kinda fell out of favour in the 80s/90s, for what it's worth.

No one wants a comic book about the Paradise Island Prison Industrial Complex.

>>82580784
Rehabilitating criminals is an enlightened type of thing, something they do in Scandinavia

It's the US that leaves Prisoners to rot or temper them to become reoffenders

Harley was taken to Paradise Island during Countdown iirc

>>82580851
>It's the US that leaves Prisoners to rot or temper them to become reoffenders
Gotta love America, putting criminal scum in their goddamn places.

God bless America.

>>82580883
That's not what first world countries are supposed to do.

>>82580271
But the current Wonder Woman has been pushing her as compassionate over warrior hard. Finches have fucked that up somewhat, but only because they're fucking terrible writers who can't keep their characters consistent for shit.

>>82580946
I was being sarcastic.

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Marston's Wonder Woman was more violent and bitchy than a lot of modern interpretations, and yet people pretend she was the only true pacifist version

It's funny

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>>82581360

>>82581360
A lot of writers confuse Marston's Wonder Woman being all about love and compassion with weakness and being a pacifistic doormat. Wonder Woman under Marston's run fought like everything was a game: she didn't kill, but she had no need to. She simply dominated the world and bent it to her loving will.

>>82579445
violence sells

>>82579763
Ares is a god; he's not even supposed to be able to die, and he'll be back eventually for sure. Doesn't count.

>>82581716
He has been back for months now

>>82579832
>Sonar
>Dr. Polaris
>Goldface
>Evil Star
>Hector Hammond
>The Shark
>not iconic
Why is the general comics buying public so awful?

>>82582462
Come on, most people didn't know any of those names.

>>82582899
that's his point

>>82582919
If nobody knows their names, then how are they really popular and iconic?

>>82579445
It's funny how people talk about how killing the villians ends all trouble and grief but when Frank tries hard to slaughter his recurring enemies, they are too crafty and get away or they just refuse to fucking die.

And then we have the same problem.

>Why doesn't Frank just kill the Barracuda?
>He's tried. Very hard. A lot.

But no, Batman should kill the Joker and be like nu-Wondy and kill people. That'll solve things.

>>82582950
wait no, I'm retarded

>>82582992
But he did kill Barracuda

>>82579832
You mean Hal "They had to turn me into a villain and then the Spectre to give me some characterization, by the way it was space bugs!" Jordan?

>>82582462
They're not iconic

Sinestro, Mogul and the guys Johns created/revamped

>>82579659
Because mah amoral edgyness and third wave feminism.

>>82580169
>the latter is probably the way to go considering that she's a female superhero after all
Bot to sound like a SJW, but this just sends the wrong message about women imo. Diana can't be a pacifist. She's an Amazonian warrior. The best of her people. She has the ancient Greek outlook on battle and victory. That makes sense. Making her passive JUST because she's female is a decision that lacks self awareness.

>>82583245
>Bot
*Not. Fucking phone.

>>82579445
>post crisis
That's post-Flashpoint Wonder Woman, not post-Crisis.

>>82579834
J'onn has Ma'alefa'ak

>>82583104
>>82582899
That's my (badly-made) point. I wish they were iconic, but the general public just wants more colored Lanterns.

>>82583564
Dude, they weren't popular and iconic before Rebirth either.

>>82583585
True, but neither was GL in general. Johns managed it with Hal, Sonestro and Black fucking Hand.

>>82583245
She can be a warrior without feeling like she has to resort to battle EVERY time some shit goes down. She can be pacifistic while still knowing how to kick some ass.

Think about it. Think about countries or law enforcers or anything like that. Do they feel the need to resort to violence every time there's some conflict? No, not really. Their first response is usually to find a way to resolve it in a non-lethal manner. Diana should be the same.

>>82579659
>Diana used to tie people up and bring them back to Paradise Island for rehabilitation

Not that I'm in favor of warrior woman, but that kind of shit doesn't really fly in a post-clockwork orange world

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>>82581667
>>82581360
>>82581395

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>>82583758
>Sympathizing with Alex

>>82583758
Superheroes resort to murder a lot these days. Or at the very least seriously maim or injure them somehow.

At this point the edgy, contrarian way for a hero to carve their own path and set themself aside from the rest is if they are merciful and do honestly try to help people, enemies included.

Superman/WW shouldn't be a thing, I didn't even know there was serious demand for it

>>82579790
>>82580086
This. It's just ignorance. She wasn't changed intentionally.

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>>82581667
>Marston a mommyfag
one of us

>>82579445
Azz's WW was still on the left, literally the only good thing that happened in nu52