Why did Desire hate Dream so much? What's his/her fucking

>>82250112
Dream was just kind of a cunt to hir and everyone except maybe Despair sometimes before he got trapped and subsequently mellowed

>>82250112
Dream is STILL being a bitch about that girlfriend who left him.

Imagine dealing with that shit for millions of years.

>>82250672
Dream is just bitch to Desire

>>82250725
>introduce brother to hot green chick you'll know he'll like
>"she gonna cheat on you tho lol"
That was a dick move.

>>82250112
Dream is a fucking faggot, not a homo like desire either

>>82250767
Dream was a blanket cunt before he got trapped

even Delirium notices that he mellows

What was even the plot of Sandman?

>>82250797
He didn't seem to do anything to anybody he just kind of didn't care.

>>82250828
There's plots for certain arcs, but there's no overarching plot for the whole series, except maybe Dream deciding over time that he's done being Dream

just some stories about Dream and those connected to him

There was the whole thing with Dream's girlfriend who Desire got to cheat on him. Desire thought it was funny and not a big deal but Dream hated hir from then on and a serious sibling rivalry flared up between them that just kept escalating. They got along really well before that.

>>82250828
>>82250828
Dream is an asshole and the only way he can change is to become a new person entirely.

>>82250839
>put his ex gf in Hell for 10k years over petty shit
>didn't do anything
lel

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>>82250839
Well, if THAT'S how you want to remember it...

>>82250999

Dream was hardcore.

>>82250999
>>82251021
Oh, let's not get into who cursed who to thousands of years of suffering and torment.
At least with the Desire thing he didn't seem like the aggressor but Desire always wanted to bother him. I mean one century they're arguing over the emperor of america next its a murder plot.

Basically what Sandman was about was that he realized he was too much of an asshole to be happy, he was also depressed, so he basically committed suicide.

But in doing so he was in a sense able to be reborn and have a chance for growth and change.

Metaphorically it is also about how mankind must grow, adapt, and change although it can be painful and violent.

As Death said what Dream did to Nada was fucking awful and there was no excuse.

>>82251503
In all honesty, the dick move wasn't in what he "did" to Nada. Both of them were hardly in their right minds, and ultimately it was Nada who decided to condemn herself to hell. Even the remainder of her tribe acknowledge that he had no other choice but to ask her a third time.
The dick move is in him leaving her in Hell for so damn long.

>>82251583
Its her own damn fault for never deciding to leave.

>>82251583
You know the story wasn't what actually happened, right?

The women know what actually happened.

>>82251583
>tribe acknowledge that he had no other choice but to ask her a third time.
"no choice" meant more "his pride wouldn't let him do otherwise." That's what that whole things was about.

>>82251611
No one but Lucifer really understood you could just walk out. Also I think that's a really shitty thing to apply to the denizens of hell and it makes hell a stupid concept. Lucifer (the series) kind of goes against it by implying that true freedom only exists once you exit god's creation

>>82251185
>Emperor of America
unequivocally the best issue

Damn, I need to reread Sandman. I can't remember anything you guys are talking about.

>>82250828
Dream is an asshole, to the point where that is getting in the way of his function and he eventually realizes that killing himself is the only way to really fix that.

I thought it was supposed to be metaphorical. As in, your desires can lead you to betray your dreams.

>>82250112
Dream's an asshole who deserves everything that happens to him. But then, so is Desire.

Really, with the exception of Death herself, the whole family's kind of shit.

>>82250828
Drawn out suicide.

>>82253179
I think that was definitely part of it. It's in their natures. I mean, the way Desire behaves? A fulfilled desire is no longer a desire at all. Desire loves sabotaging shit because he/she's all about the wanting rather than the having.

>>82253201
>Really, with the exception of Death herself, the whole family's kind of shit.

Destruction was a nice dude on a person-to-person basis and Delirium apparently had shit beyond her control happen to her. Destiny didn't do shit and Despair was doing her best to keep an undesirable position filled. We can, of course question whether she even had to, but she did anyway.

>>82250828
Dream finds that he needs to change, but can not, this decision leads to his death and rebirth. I wouldn't classify his death as suicide, more a stubborn adherence to rules and an understanding that he needs to die.

>>82250112
So who is the first despair

>>82250828
"The king of dreams learns you must change or die and makes his decision"

>>82250112
Pretty obsv, he/she wanted the Dream D.

>>82253118

Yeah, but "killing himself" isn't really the right choice of words, because it's not the desired end result. He wants to truly and lastingly change and the only way for the Endless to do that is through dying.

>>82250881
>no overarching plot
nigga wat? It's a long and winding plot about how Dream is depressed, and sets up the most elaborate suicide ever, told through dozens of different stories, characters, and more than its share of literary and folklore allusions. There's something to be said about how each single story has almost nothing to do with dream himself (even the ones he physically appears in) but the overall story follows the elaborate steps of how after Dream's captivity, he found that he couldn't face the changes that were happening, and set up events to unfold accordingly.

>>82255592
Kind of both. He himself wasn't ready to go through the dramatic change that he realized was coming (see: delight -> delirium), but also had too much respect for the dreaming and his responsibilities to simply abandon it like destruction, so he passed the mantle along to the next version of himself (by killing himself)

>>82253259
>Destruction was a nice dude on a person-to-person
>On the off chance that somebody would go looking for me after I left, I will create a fail safe that will kill anybody who might help them look for me, chiefly my friends.

Sure.

>>82250112
Memes Xdddd

>>82255592
Neil Gaiman's a huge Who fan, so I'm pretty sure he was going for Morpheus regenerating into Daniel, of sorts.

>>82250112
Desire is not logical. It wants what it wants, with everythin havingt to make way for it, and the smallest, most insignificant thing can trigger it, often without you even realizing. At best, you're left with after-the-fact rationalizations, which never do true justice to answer the question of why. Desire just is, and that's all there is to it.

>>82255715
We can't really apply human ethics unto them. They are beyond that in every sense of the word

>>82255873
This anon gets it. The entire point is that Desire is a capricious creature of the moment, never questioning 'why'? It wants because it wants, that's all there is to it.

>>82255695
>He himself wasn't ready to go through the dramatic change that he realized was coming (see: delight -> delirium)
Oh shit. I picked up the Destruction comparison, but it never occurred to me that Dream might be in a similar situation to Del. I assumed that he was just too stubborn to change.

>>82255592
Death and Delight/Delirium changed without dying.

>>82251503
>As Death said what Dream did to Nada was fucking awful and there was no excuse.

You do have to wonder why she didn't raise that point at some point earlier though. Not that Dream would have listened.

>>82256239
Death and Delirium are not so stuck up on the rules like Morpheus was.

>>82256239

You're right, guess I forgot that. But still, killing himself is just an overdramatic means to an end for Dream. He wants to change, but he doesn't want to be there for it, so he has to kill himself to change.

>>82256312
Yeah, I think it's mostly on Dream himself, which suits his personality perfectly.

>>82256312
>>82256395
Hit the nail on the head. Dream loves drama whether he knows it or not. His end/change had to be a dramatic one

>>82256076
Desire used to be twins, but when Despair was killed, one of the Desire-twins took over the position.

They probably changed the most radically of all the silblings.

>>82256312
Yeah, Dream's main problem is that he's both a stickler for the rules and a huge fricking Drama-Llhama. Dude basically did everything in his powers to make himself miserable.

>>82256543
>Desire used to be twins, but when Despair was killed, one of the Desire-twins took over the position.
Wait, what?

>>82256543
>Desire used to be twins, but when Despair was killed, one of the Desire-twins took over the position.
No. Desire and Despair used to be twins, which for the Endless means they were born at the same time, Despair being the mirror of Desire. But then the original Despair died, and a new Despair took over, just like Daniel became the new Dream. Desire hates the new Despair for replacing her twin sister.

Because deep down Gaiman thinks sex is wrong so naturally he'd make the embodiment of physical attraction evil for no reason.

>>82256789
Err... Still no. Desire doesn't hate the new incarnation of despair. Throughout all of sandman (which has the second despair only), they are real buddy buddy and confide in each other a lot. Also it keeps calling despair 'my twin'. Idk where you're getting this 'hates despair' shit from

>>82257236
Desire does not care for anyone but themselves. You're right that she shares most of her time with Despair, because they are, indeed, twins, as I explained before, and their respective realms are closely connected, much more than any of the others. They are closest to her, of all the Endless, but that does not mean Desire actually likes Despair.

>>82257379
Yeah, I agree, I was saying she doesn't have a vendetta against despair for not being the original.

>>82255715
>On the off chance that somebody would go looking for me after I left, I will create a fail safe that will kill anybody who might help them look for me, chiefly my friends.

Huh? I don't remember that part.

>>82257451
No, you're right, she doesn't have a vendetta. But she was much closer to the original Despair, and that was what I was referring to.

>>82250112
I don't agree with the thinking but as I understood it from the occasional hand wave dismissal whenever questioned about their antagonism Desire basically just thought Dream was an uptight, posturing punk who needed humbling to lighten, let down his defenses or at least accept no one really gets what they want. Not how they want it anyway,

There's probably some small woven philosophical and psychological references behind it like Dream and Death being twins a la Greek mythos, maybe something about how people's Dreams and Desires are related but never meet amiably in real life but I'm not sure.

Character wise I think that other anon's description works best. Desire just felt like it, and it was so. And maybe Dream of the Endless with his melodramatic life was just (un?)fortunately the sort of person who Desire could keep coming back to mess with and there would always be something to be gained doing so.

>>82257627
Other anon, but source on that?

Do you all think Sandman work as movie or tv

>>82260249
Honestly I think instead of trying to adapt it they should do like Endless Nights. A series of episodes or shorts with varying focus.

If anyone wants more or the source material they can just go read the source material.

>>82260249
HBO or netflix show, animated if possible, a live action movie or even a series of movies wouldnty do it justice.

>>82251672
>"his pride wouldn't let him do otherwise." That's what that whole things was about.
And that's why he had to kill himself. Ego death, yadda yadda.

>>82260249
>>82260249
This is one of those products which is actually perfectly suited for animation or claymation or even shadow puppetry over live action.

The only arcs that would work pretty well in live-action are the stories at World's End.

>>82261227
The guys who did coraline coul do a killer Sadman.

Guys what's the best printing of all the sandman books? The harcover essentials that came out a couple years ago? I want to buy a print set of the whole run to reread.

>>82250112
Because Desire was a jackass and Dream being a humorless fuck would have none of it's shit.

>>82251694
It was like that with most things in Sandman after all even aging was a choice people didn't realize they were making.

>>82253201
Destruction and Deleirium are both good people too
Hell even Despair can hardly be called evil really just a eccentric romantic.
Destiny is just a shut in.

>>82257542
He did indeed set up such traps, I think for those who would use his symbols of power to find him or something of that nature.

>>82255292
killed by the second despair

>>82252231
I personally prefer Men of Good Fortune.

>>82250112
since they're antropomorphic personifications of an idea you can use "it" for any of them

>>82262492
With a system like that I don't see why there isn't someone who decides to not stay dead. Not getting revived, but just don't feel like being dead

>>82262850
...There is, though?

>>82262850
>isn't someone who decides to not stay dead
I recall reading something where there is an exact guy like that who befriends Morpheus. I think it was hinted Death had a part to play in it though but I'm unsure. There was also another person who hid from Death, and a time Death herself just decided to stop and everyone didn't die.
Neil didn't shy away from playing with the assumed established rules. In fact quite often that tipping of the balance was the catalyst behind events.

>>82250892

>They got along really well before that.

Which makes Dream's decision to hate her/his ass for the rest of time somewhat unbelievable.

You mean to tell me that during the millions of years Dream and Desire were friends, Desire didn't do something similar to Dream?

He/She fucks with everyone and Dream acted like Desire did that to hurt him.

During the Doll's House:

Desire raped a woman and her granddaughter became a dream vortex. Dream vortexes occur very rarely and threaten the dreaming world so Dream has to kill them.

Problem is that by killing the granddaughter, he'll inflict the wrath of the Furies due to spilling family blood.

After the dream vortex issue was resolved without bloodshed, Dream confronted Desire and found out Desire planned it all out as a trap for him.

Now THAT should have killed their friendship.

>>82261547
omnibus is pretty good if you got the money

>>82262656
...no

>>82262795
yes, but the personification part means that they have personalities and genders that they identify as (this is getting dangerously close to a dumb topic)

>>82256239

>death

do you mean destruction instead?

how did death change?

>>82262656
That's wrong.

>>82262850
see>>82262742

>>82263094
Death was an ice cold bitch in the flashback graphic novel story.

>>82262987
>Which makes Dream's decision to hate her/his ass for the rest of time somewhat unbelievable.

Dream was a prideful petty asshole. He sent a chick to hell for rejecting him. As ridiculous as it is its 100% in character.

>>82262987
The thing is, part of the main point of the series is that Dream was a very different person going into that glass cage, and coming out. Before, he was the sibling who had a stick up his ass, always saw himself as a tragic noble figure, and believed that his actions were always justified (and used his rules to back that up). That Dream would be willing to hold a grudge against Desire for what would in retrospect be not that big a deal. The Dream that comes out of the Burgess manor is mellowed and far more... human. He is slower to anger, more self critical, and that's all stuff that leads to his suicide/whatever. That Dream probably wouldn't come down with all his fury on Desire, even when it tried to fuck with him in a major way.

>>82251185
Isn't the Norton thing between between Dream and Despair, though?

>>82263109
The man that killed the first despair became the second

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>>82263147
Quick story time!

>>82263390
source?

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>>82263432

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>>82263465

>>82263147

>flashback graphic novel

which graphic novel was this?

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>>82263489

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>>82263489
>>82263496
It's being storytimed as we speak!

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>>82263533
And that's it! Short and sweet

>>82263496
She showed up in Dream's story in Endless Nights and didn't even crack a smile. Can you believe that?

>>82262866
>>82262970
I was thinking something more like "guy dies and Death comes for him. He decides he don't want to go with her and revives"
I know there was the guy who refused to come along, but Death only let that one do because she was too busy, and she got him afterwards

>>82263449
The fucking comic.
Specifically when they are arranging Dream's funeral at the end.

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>>82263754
Get fucked

>>82263828
It will take a eternity because he is now despair of the endless.
Nothing in that page contradicts this.

>>82257033
Not just "physical attraction", but any 'want'. Like an simple as craving a piece of chocolate.

>>82263828
>The person who was responsible for the death of the first Despair will take the rest of eternity to die. Only then will his pain cease..
Absolutely savage

>>82263147

>Death was an ice cold bitch in the flashback graphic novel story.

>>82263489
>>82263506
>>82263533
>>82263552

Am I missing something?

She doesn't seem like a major bitch in this story.

>>82263574
>She showed up in Dream's story in Endless Nights and didn't even crack a smile.

What a bitch.

>>82263828
>>82263929

>And he had better cause for what he did than you.

So...is the new Dream going to save the poor guy?

Sounds fucked up.

>>82263828
>>82263929
So he'll be the 3rd last to die?

>>82263890
You're grasping.

>>82263890
Then why do they call it a him and not her?

>>82263828
That lack of reading comprehension...

>>82264320
Maybe they refer to who it was before he became Despair. The killer and Despair 2.0 aren't the same person so to speak. Just like Daniel and new Dream aren't the same

>>82264219
No he's not, it's in fact completely clear if you read the whole series

>>82264413
Where do they fucking say on that page that the man who killed despair became the next despair? You could stretch what they're saying and maybe say that his unending pain is being despair, but that's weak at best, and nothing else they say on the page, or the rest of the series supports that. If you have any evidence besides this one line which is, taken literally, not actually evidence, then please present it.

>>82264873
>>82264486
>>82264423
>>82264413
>>82263890
>>82264219
You're all dumb. Gaiman never clearly states the nature of Despair's death. He only ever mentions it two times, once during the wake, and once in the necropolis story in World's End. There is no hint that the man who killed Despair became the next despair, but there is also no direct statement that this isn't the case. However, in the context of >>82263828, Daniel is comparing the person who killed Despair to Lyta Hall, who is directly responsible for Dream's death, particularly weighing whether she deserves a punishment as bad as that other guy got. He probably would not make the comparison if the man who killed despair became despair, and wasn't instead in some paranormal torture for all eternity. Conclusion is, there's no evidence for or against despair no. 2. being her first murderer.

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>>82262970
You're thinking of Hob Gadling from the story “Men of Good Fortune”. Its a bit up in the air whether Death was having a bit of fun, but its also possible that raw self-belief kept him going.

Hob's one of my favourite Sandman characters

>>82265619
I thought it was pretty clearly Death doing it. Doesn't Dream treat it as a favour from her to him? I thought Hobb was genuinely surprised when he realized he'd stopped aging, too, like he was just talking shit to those people in the tavern and didn't actually believe a word of it.

>>82263890
You're full of shit dude.

Ooh, I love sandman threads

>>82265687
It was a bet they had going. They want to see just how long he decides to keep on living and over time, him and Dream become friends.

Dream showing up in modern times to meet him and admitting that is one of the warmest moments in the series.

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>>82265687
You're probably right, its been a long time since I've sat down and read Sandman. Given what we see of the metaphysics of life, death and belief I don't think its that far-fetched that Death was able to find the one person who believed in not dying enough to keep on. She seems to know exactly when its someone's time, and it wasn't Hob's yet. Then again, it wasn't the element girl's time either, and she got a little help from Death too.

>>82266071
True that.

My favourite thing about the Endless is how they're viewed differently by different people. There's a bit of that in the Dreaming in general as well, like Merv Pumpkinhead appearing with a Turnip in the background one of the Shakespeare stories (the final one, I think).

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>>82266134
The pub conversations mirror the ones from the very start as well, which is a nice touch.

>>82250112
Endless Nights shows how their feud began. Dream and Desire used to be BFFs, Dream even goes so far as to call him/her his favorite sibling and thanks him for introducing him to his current girlfriend. Then Desire plays a trick on him and tricks Dream's current girl of the month to fuck someone behind Dream's back. Then Desire brags about it to his face, playing it off as a harmless joke. Dream was pretty damn pissed and the rest is history.

>>82266407
Let bygones be bygones I say. He's had billions of years to get over it. If he had, having him cucked again is the worst Desire would do to him later as a prank

>>82266134
I. Absolutely. LOVE Dream's reaction in this page.

The way he theatrically conveys his offense is sublime.
The force with which he repels himself from Hob and the table is as though fleeing from something immediately hazardous.
His outraged expression.
His proud, succinct and intentional choice of words.
He does not simply dismiss Hob and carry on, he has to defend his honor that instant. He has to be seen doing so passionately.
Instead of disappearing he puts his hat on, still reacting and responding to Hob, takes his cane and storms out furiously.
Yet allows himself to stay in sight at safe distance so Hob can pursue him and continue to speak.

>>82266171
And then the way they meet next with an air of awkwardness and ease.

I need you to understand where I'm coming from here. This is about using a complex setup to talk about the simple nature of the individual. The eager yearning all people have for someone who understands them but the hesitance to be too easily understood.

The two are different yet share a lot in common. Hob has come to terms with who he is, what he's done and many other things in life as has Dream under the surface, but Dream does not want to readily admit it. He needs time. They are both given enough.

The weight these scenes carry make it a story as mythical as it is modern, a seamless blend of contrast and complements.

>>82250112
Where do I go for more Sandman stuff beside the main series and Overture?

>>82267504
Well you can read Lucifer, if you liked that guy.
There's also The Dreaming, which is more about all the characters that Dream made, with a few cameo's by the Endless.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_The_Sandman_spinoffs

>>82262656
The second Despair took over for the first, and was rather nervous about doing so. But we don't know how the first died, other than that the guy responsible was going to be punished forever or for a very long time (I don't remember which).

>>82256395
You also have to consider that Dream is king over the dominion of stories, and that Sandman itself was in Gaiman's own words a story about stories. Morpheus was playing the role of the tragic hero because by his own rules he couldn't see his story as anything else.

>>82264014
In Endless Nights, she shows up briefly at a gathering and everyone's absolutely terrified. She doesn't stay long, but clearly relishes everyone's discomfort. She used to be an awful person, but she became a better one. That's how she changed.

>>82265619
There is also the caveman that lives long enough to die after being crushed under a bunch of bricks falling from a broken crane asking Death for more time to which she points out there is nothing left of his body.
You can live forever because sooner or later even immortals eventually die.
>>82262850
In one of the stories there is also some little kid that died but refused to move on and just stuck around as a ghost.

>>82265687
She also keeps Orpheus from dying at his request, at least until Dream intervenes millennia later. And she traded Hazel's son's life for someone else's. She does stuff like that sometimes.

>>82267717
What could be worse than having to be Despair?

>>82268248
Destiny imo
>Gee I sure can't wait to do everything I already know I'm going to

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>>82268161
Hob said it best

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Lets have a storytime then, yes?

>>82267504
The Death OGN and the Morrison JLA arc with Daniel

>>82268147
There were two boys

Because Desire is slowly being replaced by Dream in every respect. Desiring things is being associated with dreaming about them more and more with time. Your greatest desire, for example, is called your dream now.

Dream is eating away at Desire.

>>82268668
Sol a cute

Someone storytime men of good fortune after this

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>>82268834
Was that the one introducing Hob?

>>82268831
Dream may be an asshole, but Desire is a Grade-A cunt

>>82268891
>Earth gets Dream's primary attention because Desire cocked up his relationship with the proto-Guardian
>the best Green Lanterns come from Earth
POTTERY
O
T
T
E
R
Y

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>>82268834

>>82269076
Yes. One of the best issues of Sandman

>>82268879
Ah, Rao is Krypton's sun. Cool.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rao_(comics)

>>82269370
And oa is the GL corps planet/system. Power of the glow is green willpower, and killalla is an ancestor of the guardians of the universe. I love how it all does tie into DC, just real subtle and not really affecting the plot, just nods here and there

>>82269431
I could go for a Constantine series set in the 1700s

Second to last and last page are here:

>>82266134
>>82266171

I think I will storytime one of my personal favorites before hitting the hay.

>>82262742
>>82252231
The Shakespeare or P Craig Russel Baghdad issue is best

>>82257542
By looking for him you quite literally seek destruction not just in his personified Endless form but also in relation to your own person. Things around you go boom. Stuff tries to kill you.

>>82269619
Call me stupid, but I never even noticed the rapening until the third time I read this story.

Or maybe I did, and it flew by me.

>>82256789
Despair is the mirror of dream though.

>>82257033
Gaiman has wild fuck sessions with his wife an a hot pornstar, I dunno what you're talking about

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This is one of the stories I think Gaiman had on his mind as a short story.

It is rather wordy, isn't it?

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>>82250112
(this is obviously all headcannon, but its how I see it)

They're co-dependent of each other. With out dreams you cannot have desire, with out desire you cannot have dreams.

Dream hates himself, Desire loves theyselves.

The Dreaming is an infinate world outside yourself, the Heart of Desire is a relatively microscopic world inside yourself.

They both have what each other wants, and both don't want what they have.

So why does Desire hate Dream? Because Dream can have whatever he wants, but puts 10 miles of bullshit between himself and his desires. This is blasphemy to Desire. To use a /pol/ analogy, it's like a 6'4 chad complaining about how he can't get women to a room full of ugly manlets.

>>82263828
>>82265431
>>82263890
Why don't we just ask Gaiman on twitter?

>>82268879
I'm guessing that's the original Despair too.

>>82269940
Whoops

>>82268879
>It was just a prank, bro!

So did Terminus just decide to help Augustus ruin Rome because he thought the empire was getting to big and would end up with nowhere to expand? I didn't really get that.

>>82270141
Is that black haired former slave fella a reference to someone?

>>82270191
It's deliberately ambiguous why anyone did what they did in this chapter.

>>82257641
>Dream and Death being twins a la Greek mythos
No. Sleep and Death are the twins. Morpheus is Hypnos's son.

>>82270191
He's the god of boundaries. It was his purpose to set the bounds of the Roman empire, rather than see it go on forever across the world. He chose Augustus as his agent because Augustus wanted to stick it to his uncle by having his legacy, Rome, go to shit eventually.

>>82270191
I see it as Terminus knowing Augustus didn't want Julius to win through an eternal Rome, and helped him with a way out through Dream

>>82268879
>Superman defied this and became the ultimate symbol of hope
CAN'T REPEL THE EL

>>82270408
That's a good fuckin' catch, anon

>>82269370
And also a god, Superman used to say "Great Rao!" as an expression of shock all the time

>>82270511
Rao is the kryptonian sun God.

>>82270485
I'm a big Superfag

>>82262987
And then it happened anyway.

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ITT: Every single one of you is wrong and you should all go reread Sandman right now. No excuses.

>>82270958
We've all read it and you can tell from the discussion mate
You flinging shit for fun?

>>82253118
holy fuck im high right now and that just exploded my mind, thats it.... death could really be the beginning of life and not the ending. Perpetual cycle of the endless

>>82270958
Alright you tell us why Desire hates Dream so much, Mr. Smart Guy

>>82263552
Lovely story. Death is a damn good character.
>meet yourself and tell her she's a cold, frigid bitch

>>82267916
loving reading through this thread

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>>82266134
I love Hob stories.

>>82270958
I really need to. I forgot if Dream ever manages to actually shit on Desire.

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>>82268322
>implying that knowing what's going to happen and accepting it isn't the greatest triumph of the spirit

>>82271317
Maybe the one with the emperor of America? Someone should storytime it

>>82262850
being dead in Sandman isn't so bad though and Death is cool/hot so why be alive

>>82268322
I forgot, aren't there 2 or 3 things Destiny will never know? One being what happened to Delight

>>82271482
Though, imagine: every time you die, meet Death and have a chat, do not stay dead, wait some time, meet Death. Rinse repeat

>>82269881
Works better as a comic.

Gaiman took ages to learn how to properly write stories without pictures. American Gods was a failure in my eyes.

>>82268733
Delightium a cute

>>82271510
Well that would probably just drive me more mad, I know everything except these three things and never will.

>didn't want to be a bottom bitch god for eternity so makes an empire collapse

Well done Augustus

What better way to not have a cock in your ass for ten millenia

>>82269183
>Dream all sarcastic
Hehe.

>>82269759
>a short guy and a tall guy playing twins
Isn't that a movie?

>>82272308
Yeah, with Arnold Schwazneger and Danny Devitto.

>>82269835
>britons standing the heat

>>82271430
That's Despair.

>>82255482
I would have posted this if no one else did.

>>82271067
Were you 13 when you read Sandman? That concept is pretty much spelled out in the story.

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>>82261317
>Laika Sandman movie
I like this idea so much, I need three smiles.

>>82268859
I kinda don't really get this scene. She just seems to immediately turn her attentions to Sto-Oa.

>>82263339
Dream and everybody but Death. I think Despair kicked the whole thing off though.

>>82272750
Desire is pulling the strings.
>>82271067
Death meets everyone twice: at birth and at death.
>>82268965
>female Oans became the Zamarons
>Zamarons created the Star Sapphires
>Star Sapphires are powered by the Predator entity, representing love and Desire
I wonder if Desire likes Larfleeze?

I always saw it as dream killing some of his least favorite traits. He said each incarnation was like a different facet of the same jewel. His current incarnation had bad traits so he simply killed it to change

>/co/ has a great thread about comics.
What a world. We should have sandman threads more often.

>>82269351
I'm surprised Despair never decided to fuck with an immortal. Iean the despair she can induce, damn.

>>82250112

Dream held Delight down while Destruction raped her.

>>82268026

>everyone's absolutely terrified

That's because she's death personified.

Everyone is scared of her-

>>82268698

oh...

Damn, she was awful.

I wonder what caused her to change.

>>82272579

He shat on Despair and Desire who both tried to make the Emperor of America loose the bet.

>>82276812
From the story >>82263432 it's illustrated people began to blame her for the end of good things but never thank her for the conclusion of bad. So she sort of quit. When people and eventually she saw how bad bad could get she got back to work because it wasn't going to fix itself. Still nothing from no one but complaints so she became cold about her work.
>I wonder what caused her to change.
Someone dying asked her how she'd like the treatment she'd been giving so she decided to see what all the fuss was about by coming to life and dying. Dying Death then told Death herself off in a way I imagine only she could understand.

I guess it's like how if you can tell someone is trying to dig or convince you of something you have psychological barriers setup to protect your ego, but your mind can cook up a dream that speaks to you in a way you can't ignore. Once a part of you speaks on who you are it's already behind the barriers so there's no running from it.

>>82268910
Damn Gaiman, you`re literally create Mythos

>>82251185
>I mean one century they're arguing over the emperor of america next its a murder plot.
To the Endless, this is the equivalent of being mad about something your sibling did to you on Monday and still being mad about it on Tuesday, if that.

>>82277129

>So she sort of quit. When people and eventually she saw how bad bad could get she got back to work because it wasn't going to fix itself.

I always wondered what would happen if Death was the one that was imprisoned instead of Dream and just how she would have punished her captors after being freed.

Also wondered why no one else tried that again.

Capturing one of the strongest beings seemed easy enough and no one knew where to look for Dream in all those decades.

>>82269723
>By looking for him you quite literally seek destruction not just in his personified Endless form but also in relation to your own person.

How the FUCK did I never see this before.

>>82268668
God....

I had a dream where Death appeared like that, was my first nightmare in a long time; remember my face being something like last panel. Damn Gaiman for infiltrating my subconscious so thoroughly.

>>82273832
>What a world. We should have sandman threads more often.

Having your desire filled isn't so bad, is it?

>>82267504
Be wary of Sandman or Dreaming stories not written by Gaiman.

>>82277876
there's only the Morrison JLA one with Daniel, I thought

even that time Death showed up during Blackest Night, he wrote her dialogue

>>82277632
Read overture. It explains why some two-bit sorcerers were able to capture a principal of reality, and why it wouldn't have worked with the other endless.

>>82276084
not this meme again

>>82278234
There's a few stories set in Dream written by other authors.

Didn't know that about Blackest Night, though. Neat trivia.

>>82277632
>what would happen if Death was the one that was imprisoned instead of Dream

Bad Things would have happened, that's what.

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>>82268698
This is why you never invite Death. Not because everyone will start randomly dying ala Destruction, but because she is a morbid freaking jerk.

>>82277632
>>82280287

What would a pissed off Death do to someone?

Kill them?

Delirium made someone go forever insane and Dream gave a guy that waking dream so he'll see nightmares that get worse every time for eternity.

>>82282878
probably not let them move on after death

>>82280287
It's interesting to see how much she changed since that story set millions of years before most of the Sandman issues.

Have they ever shown what Death's domain looks like?

I know she's said to have a pet goldfish but is it some kind of talking magical goldfish?

>>82284069
At the moment I think her domain is a comfy little appartment. The goldfish is a regular goldfish

>>82260249
I think you could mash the first and second archs together and get a good coherent plot. Have the Corinthian steal Dream's gem instead of Dr. Destiny and make him the main antagonist.

I think it'd be a pretty damn cool film. Considering what Inception did with dreams while staying in a very real world style, just imagining the possibilities for the Sandman makes me excited.

Also, Beelzebub Cucumber should play Dream.

>>82282878
Let them live.
What the hell would Destiny do, assuming he's capable of getting pissed? Just unwrite you? Tear your page out of his book?
>>82284285
I think we're shown that her domain changes depending on who she's dealing with, but in her off hours it's a cozy if somewhat messy apartment.

>>82284582
I don't think you could do anything to piss Destiny off, he'd see it coming everytime. And I think the guy takes his duty too seriously to actually mess with you if you did piss him off

>>82284652
Yeah, I figured about as much. I suppose that one of the things that he's incapable of knowing as mentioned earlier in the thread is someone managing to make him angry enough to abandon his post.
I bet if you read over his shoulder for long enough he'd go crazy

>>82283799
Make them die over and over? Like at the end of Vento Aureo.
>>82284582
Destiny would do whatever the book says. He's literally chained to it.

>>82272730
And Gaiman wrote Coraline too.

>>82285465
It's my head-canon that the annotations written in comic books are the words written in Destiny's book.

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>>82284069
>>82284285
>>82284582
Cozy as hell.

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>>82286879

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>>82286879
>Death's stocking

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>>82270033
>>82270052
Even Dream couldn't bring himself to break the rules. No one can overstep their bounds. This is the power of [TERMINUS]!

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>>82286888
>>82286961
There are rules for breaking the rules, apparently.

>>82286980
If she agrees to never take him, how did Dream then kill Orpheus? Did she mean he would never die to normal means, hence requiring an endless to do the deed?
Knowing this, she'd know that one of her siblings would have to kill him one day, and then die as a result of spilling family blood. It's tough being Death

>>82271420
No, it's the refuge of a moral coward too terrified of responsibility for his own destiny he hired a fucking Klansman to stop his brother from fucking his sister while taking it up the shitter from a 100 year old English homo.

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>>82287085
Maybe it was an agreement between Dream and Death? She does seem a bit shaken about it.

>>82286888
>YOU people

Jesus, Death, you can't just fucking say that.

>>82250112
Because Dream has no sense of humor, and unlike Destiny he isn't completely unflappable and can be messed with. So as far as targets of practical jokes go, he's really the only option.

>>82287644
>destiny is unflappable
>death was a frigid bitch back then and a cool big sister now
>destruction is never home
>despair is already depressed
>delirium would either think it's funny or fall apart and cry (or do that thing where she stands up for herself like that one time with Destiny maybe?)
Does Desire ever play pranks on itself?

>>82287801
I think that's why it started just fucking with mortals instead.

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>>82286879
>that Endless family photo

>>82268910
Did anyone ever mentioned them in other works after this?

>>82287801
Probably. Then again, winding up Dream is probably very satisfying.

>Free comedy tip, slick: the pie gag's only funny when the sap's got dignity - like that guy! Hey Hal, pie job for Lord Autumnbottom, there!

>>82268630
>She's from Oa and has green flame powers
DEEPEST LORE
E
E
P
E
S
T

L
O
R
E

>>82268879
>why so serious?

>>82269474
The power of the green glow looked more like the Starheart to me. Before the Guardians cast it away.

>>82287912

Oh god i have not even noticed that.

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>>82282878
Death's greatest punishment is completely erasing you from existence. It will be like you were never born. No "afterlife" no reincarnation, you don't even get oblivion. Pretty cruel.

>>82283799
that's already what most people experience in the DC afterlife. If you don't reincarnate, you become some sort of object, like a rock, or a tree.

>>82269719
>thinking a vomitorium is for vomiting

I expected better

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>>82283906
shes like an teenager who just finished reading her first nietzsche after a trip to khaotic dot com

>>82286916

What would Death's stocking smell like?

>>82288951

There was a guy (Mr. E) from the book of magic who could travel through time and tried to kill a boy (Tim) after bringing him millions of years into the future.

He failed and Death appeared and gave Tim a free trip back to his own time.

Mr. E however lost his ability to travel through time and wanted Death's help but she told him he had to literally walk through those millions of years back to his own time.

>>82289432
that was pretty brutal "you already died millions of years ago" he was walking back through time just to have a proper death.

Also why did Death keep Tim from having so many bad ends?

>>82286879
You think Death has been in any relationships? Dreams had loads and he's way less social and down to earth than she is.

>>82290554
Everytime she lives I bet she has a relationship.

>>82269945
Well go ahead then.

>>82252231
>tfw that was a true story

>>82288951
> that's already what most people experience in the DC afterlife. If you don't reincarnate, you become some sort of object, like a rock, or a tree.

Source? I remember sandman being really vague about it, but doesn't even death not know what happens "after"?

>>82290554
She has wild kinky sex once a year

>>82292018
She does live as a mortal once a century. I imagine sex is a part of that

>>82292062
Once a century, that's what I meant

>>82291027
Emperor Norton still isn't featured on any of the bills while every two-bit warlord and slaver of US history got theirs.

>>82292385
Hamilton's ok

>>82275227
Clearly she did, for a bit.

>>82289008
Remind me again, what is it for?

>>82290496

>Also why did Death keep Tim from having so many bad ends?

He was supposed to be someone important...eventually? I don't know either.

>>82292062

Would she let the guys/girls know that she fucked them when their time comes?

or would she give a suggestive smirk and the guy/girl would be like 'that was weird'?

>>82269955
Holy shit. How strong is this fucker? He's almost 70 years old and he can burst a living rat with one hand?

>>82294173
They'd probably remember her when they meet her again

>>82294371
He's Augustus fucking Caesar anon.