How do we get animation out of the ghetto? People often say that

>>81962158
Buy lots of anime. Hollywood during their next scrapping for ideas will look at the market and see anime as a thing to mimic.

>>81962186
But then they'll just turn it into live-action like the new Ghost in the Shell movie.

>>81962158
in the same league as something like who framed roger rabbit, cool world, etc? i can't imagine something like that being made now that hollywood is in love with making 3D CGI bullshit like Sausage Party, but we can dream.

>>81962158
You actually watch those that get released in theaters and then buy the home release instead of whining on /co/ that there aren't more.
And no I don't mean Sausage Party, I mean shit like Ari Folman movies.

Who cares about image, there are cartoon movies aimed at adults, if you have an issue with some high school kids thinking that all cartoons are childish, it's probably more of a you problem.

I'm fucking tired of this thread popping up every week.

>>81962186
This.

See how comic books are now a respect medium

>>81962158
I'm not sure, but in a world where The Good Dinosaur is the least successful Pixar movie I don't think mature animation movies are going to possible in the near future.

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>>81962248
>The animated adaptations of the successful movie works are still watered down crap for kids.

Also keep in mind the only reason people are even thinking about R-rated hero films is because of Deadpool (Not Watchmen), despite there being thousands of adult comic works prior to that. Like, why the fuck wouldn't Batman being hardcore adult and terrifying instead of an idol to kids?

>>81962301
Having child deuteragonists in a dinosaur world drawn in a cartoony art-stlye doesn't exactly convey "we made this movie for adults". The marketing was awful and Pixar themselves didn't have any confidence in it.

Besides it really wasn't particularly mature anyway.

>>81962385
>The animated adaptations of the successful movie works are still watered down crap for kids.
The movies themselves aren't exactly the pinnacle of maturity. Kids are about as big an audience for them as adults.

>Like, why the fuck wouldn't Batman being hardcore adult and terrifying instead of an idol to kids?
Because the very concept of superheroes is historically more aimed at kids than adults.

It's fine if you want more action cartoons but bear in mind that action movies aren't exactly considered a mature genre to begin with.

>>81962158
>wanting normies to ruin animation
Did you learn nothing from the internet, vidya and capeshit becoming acceptable?

>>81962389
It was classic universal storytelling and had themes like dealing with death and exploring our relationship with nature and lesser animals.

>>81962158
Well....Zootopia is popular and Rango was really good and made money...

Maybe we can get Hollywood to make a top notch version of Lackadaisy.

>>81963621
And you seriously think those are particularly adult themes? Because they're in a lot of cartoon movies.

>>81962211
This
Also don't forget Netflix is now working on a live-actin DeathNote series.

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>>81963761
Yeah, but it would need to be one of those projects that someone at some big company who has a lot of power and money wanted to do, and made a concerted effort to do like the comic.

Drop Lackadaisy in the Hollywood shlock machine for even 1 second and it would churn out into a pile of puke.

I heard a rumor that a number of studios had approached the Author and her publisher about it but literally wanted to make it into a story about a catnip speakeasy and water-guns. Supposedly it was so bad that even her publisher rejected the studio-dollars for fear of life long market suicide.

So like I said, it would have to be one of those "I just want to produce this and do it right" kind of projects for a producer with money and industry clout already.

>>81963779
They are more adult themes than the vast majority of animated films that have come out this decade. Name the last animated children's movie that dealt with any of these themes.

Adult Swim was a mistake.

>>81963986
>dealing with death
Big Hero 6. How to Train Your Dragon 2. Lion King. Lilo & Stitch. Kung Fu Panda 2. Up.

Toy Story 3 had them accepting death, if you want to count that.

>exploring our relationship with nature and lesser animals
The Croods. Dragon franchise (Albeit fictional nature). WALL-E. Pocahontas. Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs (Rather comically though).

Finding Dory looks like it's going to explore human exploit with SeaWorld.

>>81964065
it was worth it for this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trfHP5LHVNY

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>>81962158

I hope we are getting back to our roots.

>>81963846
Didn't that already have a live action adaptation?

>>81962158
What movies from the 80s were you thinking of?

Besides Who Framed Roger Rabbit? Cool World sucked, it was an infamous flop.

I'm having trouble thinking of any adult-oriented Western animated movies at all. By that I mean a movie that's not a children's movie that adults can enjoy, but a movie like any other that happens to be animated.

Has there ever actually been one in the mainstream?

>>81964315
For example from anime, something like Only Yesterday or Perfect Blue.

>>81964315

Not mainstream, but Fritz the Cat counts.

>>81964173
Yes, but that was a Japanese production. This one is American.

>>81964315
Would Watership Down be considered mainstream? I know tons of people know about it. Even though it was marketed towards children...

Also, this one is non-mainstream, but I heard Felidae is really good. It's a horror.

>>81964315
I'm amazed how few people on /co/ know about Waltz With Bashir.

>>81964315
Fire & Ice. Heavy Metal.

>>81964173
Yes, but like almost all Japanese live action movies of the modern period it was terrible.

>>81964576
I wouldn't really call those adults movies. They're basically teen boy fantasies.

>>81965304
Your're mother is basically a teen boy fantasies.

>>81964511
Good one. The Triplets of Belleville is also a good non-kids' animated movie.

>>81965331
That she is, anon. I'd share a pic but alas this is the wrong board for that sort of thing.

>>81964129
Well I admittedly haven't seen half of those, but leaving out Pixar movies and the older ones you felt compelled to include for some reason that's only a small handful. Maybe the ones of haven't seen deal with those themes in more direct and straightforward ways than The Good Dinosaur, but I have my doubts. Also just because a movie is ostensibly geared towards children doesn't mean the themes within cannot be considered adult.

>>81962158
animation was always expensive and time-consuming, you can't pump out an animated movie with the same frequency as a Live-action movie, so in the end all of them, even the cheaper ones were all made with the ''big event'' mindset, even Walt Disney knew that, explaining the sameness.

Japan manages to crank these by the thousands because they have different studio policies and because of working their animators to near slavery.

>>81964315
American Pop

For all I know it's one of the few instances where it's more of a live-action film with an animation thing in it than an animated film, because it's so unlike any other animated film I've seen, even the other 2 films with rotoscoping Bakshi did

>>81962158

Why do you care about what normies think?

>>81965739
Don't be mistake, Big Hero 6 and How To Train Your Dragon 2 are fucking weak movies, just because you have ''dealing with death'' in it doesn't mean dick, especially given by the rush sterile nature of both films, not to mention, not showing the actual impact and thinking that if you stop the film dead in its tracks to mourn the loss of a character it's just as impactful, here's a newsflash: It doesn't, It never did and it never will, you're just wasting everyone's time.

Why does animation have that image in the first place?

>>81965843
Walt Disney.

>>81965843
Because of Disney

>>81965739
But it does mean that "adult themes" is not the reason The Good Dinosaur flopped, since those exist in much more succesful movies that are aimed at children.
It means that the movie wasn't particularly aimed at older audiences, at least not anymore than most of what anon listed.

>>81965843
Disney and the Hayes Code

>>81965839
That's exactly my point, The Good Dinosaur dealt with the notion of death in a very visceral and immediate way that isn't normally seen in animated kids' movies these days. It was also very effective in translating the grander and typically hard to deal with ideas of our relationship with nature and other creatures on this planet in a way that kids can understand without taking away from their complexity or ambiguity. Those other recent films may glance at those themes and have death in them, but they probably don't explore them with as much immediacy or depth. Sorry I'm wasting your time, I'm sure you have more important things to do than catalogue animated movies.

>>81965839
>not showing the actual impact and thinking that if you stop the film dead in its tracks to mourn the loss of a character it's just as impactful
HTTYD2 was even more guilty of that than BH6. At least in BH6 the kid seems somewhat affected in his relations to others. Then again it's not even the wrongest thing in either of those movies.

>>81965994
I disagree, I think there was an element of universal simplicity to the story in Good Dinosaur that has been sorely lacking from animated features recently. People are so quick to dismiss entertainment for being unoriginal on a surface level these days that they have become unable to enjoy simple stories told well. There is a reason the classics are classics, and we seem to have shifted away from timeless storytelling techniques towards increasing spectacle and referential humor.

>>81966093
That guy >>81965994 here I guess that's true. It was the actual theme of a lot of the movie instead of a poor excuse for sob moments.

But I still think that's not the idea of this thread, as you say yourself it's clearly made with children in mind. Many movies aren't, and couldn't be watched by children because the themes they explore simply don't talk to them.

I'm going to bring up Ari Folman for the 3rd time in this thread, a guy whose 2 latest movies were about an ex Israeli soldier exploring his guilt in a war crime (Waltz with Bashir) and an older actress being virtualized in a sort of dystopian Hollywood in a movie that deals pretty heavily with identity and the notion of self (the Congress). Now say what you want about their execution but those are actual adult themes, as in themes children can't really grasp.

Something like Khalil Gibran's The Prophet is also an example of a recent animated movie that is clearly more aimed at adults than children (although it's definitely more watchable for them than Folman's stuff), it deals with dogma, art, freedom, child rearing, and, wouldn't you know it, death.

All 3 have some pretty gorgeous animation at moments too.

>>81966232
I think you mistake the argument "The Good Dinosaur is not an adult-oriented animated movie" for the argument "The Good Dinosaur is stupid and childish".

>>81966336
That's a fair enough point, but I would like to think that as denizens of /co/ we realize that animated art can transcend the boundaries of the demographic it's ostensibly marketed to. I'm a big proponent of animation in general and would love to see more geared towards adult audiences, but my initial point was that I thought The Good Dinosaur had aspects of adult thematic content that I hadn't seen in a while and the fact that it was unappreciated does not bode well for further animated features appealing to a wider audience. There is no reason why children's films can't be made in a way that appeal to adults, I'd argue all the best ones do, and the fact that studios seem to be consistently ignoring this aspect means that they will likely never see them take the leap to the unproven adult animated feature.

>>81966524
>It's actually ironic that anime was inspired by Disney's films.
Not really. The majority of anime is aimed at children, mangas tend to be more adult-oriented.
Miyazaki is quoted as saying the thing that inspired him to make cartoon movies for adults (yeah, yeah, stay with me here) was The King and The Mockingbird, not any Diney movie.

>>81966380
But isn't it more adult-oriented if it's less stupid and childish? I'm not arguing against the idea it's a children's film first but that doesn't preclude it from being more adult-oriented than any mainstream animated children's film I've seen in a while.

>>81966636
But Tezuka was inspired by Disney and Tezuka is basically the founding father of anime, not Miyazaki. Miyzaki is just connoisseur in the field.

>>81966590
>I would like to think that as denizens of /co/ we realize that animated art can transcend the boundaries of the demographic it's ostensibly marketed to.
Of course, but that's entirely besides the point of this thread, /co/mrade.

> The Good Dinosaur had aspects of adult thematic content that I hadn't seen in a while and the fact that it was unappreciated does not bode well for further animated features appealing to a wider audience.
Yeah but no see that's wrong. You have to have actually watched the movie to know it has those thematics. The movie failed way before audiences had even the chance to watch the movie, namely at the character design and marketing phases, where it clearly wasn't geared towards adults.
Now clearly, us animation enthusiasts will watch wide release animated movies regardless, but Normie McCasual is likely to think it's just another kids' movie and just say pass, if he even heard of it. As I said the marketing for this movie was almost absent to begin with.

>the fact that studios seem to be consistently ignoring this aspect means that they will likely never see them take the leap to the unproven adult animated feature.
I maintain that the biggest hurdle for that is even adult animation buffs prefer kiddie material. Most people on /co/ don't watch animated movies that are actually aimed at adults, and don't seek them out for shit.

>>81966657
But by your own admission you don't watch that many animated movies, even extremely mainstream ones like those listed here >>81964129

>>81966708
Tezuka is more the father of manga than anime, and most of his stuff is child oriented, especially early on, but fair point I guess.
I mean in the end the anime you know him for are Astro Boy and Kimba, less likely Message to Adolf which was more aimed towards adults and thus never made into anime.

>>81966890
Well now we're getting into marketing vs. content which I think is a whole 'nother discussion. My point is that the delineations between "kiddie stuff" and "adult stuff" are more arbitrary than we make them out to be, and that the first step towards having actual adult oriented animated features would be a return to inserting more universal/"adult" content and storytelling into children's animated features.

>>81966957
Just because I'm not up to date on the latest Disney films and countless animated sequels does not mean I don't enjoy and seek out animated movies. In fact my apathy towards current mainstream studio animation is what kept me from seeing Good Dinosaur for so long and my response to it dovetails nicely into this thread.

>>81967512
>Well now we're getting into marketing vs. content which I think is a whole 'nother discussion.
I mean, not really, when you claim the reason the movie wasn't succesful is because of its content, while it's the Pixar movie that factually had the weakest marketing in years and was a production nightmare.
There's nothing suggesting that the themes are what turned adults off watching it.
>the first step towards having actual adult oriented animated features
There's no step, those exist, you just don't watch them because there's no Disney or Dreamworks logo on them.

>>81967571
I'm just saying you can't make broad declarations about the state of mainstream animation in a reasonably informed way while not actually watching half of it.

>>81967717
>>81967757
Are you the same person? Because making assumptions about what I watch based on a conversation about one specific movie is idiotic. You're lambasting me for not being able to talk about animation because I watch Disney while simultaneously saying I can't comment because I don't watch animation? Obviously adult animated movies exist and I guarantee you I've seen way more than your average person but we are talking about why there aren't more of them specifically in the mainstream. When did I shit in your corn flakes? Did I not say I wanted more adult animation? Do I have to submit to you a detailed list of every animated movie I have watched before you stop being an asshole? Keep telling people to shut up until they've watched as many movies as you and then turning around and being baffled when we don't get more mainstream animated features. Fuck you.

>>81962158
Ironically, the movie your picture is from OP, was conceived of by Bakshi as a live-action/animated horror movie (the killer would be the half-human, half-toon daughter of the artist MC and his creation), and in getting studio backing and Kim Basinger onboard (who wanted a movie that she "could show to sick kids in the hospital" for her PR) he was forced to compromise it into a Who Framed Roger Rabbit? knock-off with little to none of its edge.

>>81963621
So did The Land Before Time, and it did all of that while somehow having dinosaur designs less cutesy than The Good Dinosaur.

>>81966657
>But isn't it more adult-oriented if it's less stupid and childish?
No, because that presumes that children only enjoy stupid, immature works/that only adults can appreciate intelligent writing and themes. I mean, I assume most of us are on this board because we responded as children to those cartoons that didn't talk down to us.

>>81968254
When you say stuff like "the first step towards having actual adult oriented animated features" it really sounds like you think there are no adult animated features. There were plenty of examples in this thread, I've given you recent ones.

I'm sorry if I come off as an asshole but I'm fed up with /co/ complaining that there's not enough adult oriented animation when people in these very threads usually don't know half the movies that are given as counter-examples showing that yes, animation aimed towards adults exists.

Err, yeah fuck you too, I guess, I'm sorry I don't think The Good Dinosaur failed because it was particularly too adult even in the mainstream context (that you admittedly don't follow) and that somehow vexed you.

>>81968570
And the topic of this thread is how do we get animation out of the ghetto you sanctimonious fuck. Citing Waltz with Bashir and The Triplets of Belleville doesn't somehow mean that adult animation is a beyond niche market and that mainstream animation is in a terrible state compared to twenty years ago. I'm talking about adult animated features in the context of mainstream cinema. So keep telling me what I don't follow you holier-than-thou pedantic shitstain.

>>81964315
A Scanner Darkly and Chicago 10. Those were rotoscoped, but then so were Bakshi's Cool World and The Hobbit/LoTR.

>>81968539
But isn't immaturity exactly the problem with animation, perceived or otherwise? My point is that simplicity is not stupidity, and the conflation of the two is why animation is in a bad state right now.

>>81968753
My point is it's in a ghetto because most people don't watch animated movies that are aimed at adults, even people who like animation. /co/ isn't the mainstream audience, it IS the niche of adults that watch animation, and people here would rather still talk about the latest Disney movie than any movie itt. And then complain that there's not enough adult oriented animation.

You really should calm the fuck down, we having different opinions on why there's a ghetto and me inferring things logically from what you said (that you said didn't watch half of the movies that other anon listed, and that you said that there weren't "actual adult oriented animated features") is no reason to be a little foul-mouthed douchebag. I may have inferred wrong or you may have expressed yourself poorly, but that's no reason to get so antsy.

>>81969090
There's nothing logical about criticizing people who say they like and support a niche market because they aren't up to your standards of "authenticity". In fact, setting arbitrary criteria for enjoyment of a type of art and then getting mad at people who fail to meet said criteria and criticizing them after they express enjoyment of the very thing you wish to see more of is the definition of illogical. Don't appeal to logic when you are just trying to feel superior on the internet.

>>81969297
>There's nothing logical about criticizing people who say they like and support a niche market
But you originally never said that. How the fuck am I supposed to assume that you watch adult-oriented animated movies when you use The Good Dinosaur as an example of adult-oriented movie.

>In fact, setting arbitrary criteria for enjoyment of a type of art and then getting mad at people who fail to meet said criteria and criticizing them after they express enjoyment of the very thing you wish to see more of is the definition of illogical.
I have no problem with people not watching adult oriented animated movies, as long as they don't complain there's not enough of them. Nothing arbitrary there, just watch and talk about what you say you want more of.
The lack of discussion about those movies on /co/ compared to how much complaining there is that there isn't more adult cartoons is a big contrast, and the reason I'm taking this asshole stance.

>Don't appeal to logic when you are just trying to feel superior on the internet.
What I'd really want is for you to watch The Prophet. It's a fun movie, I hope you enjoy it and come talk about it on /co/ further. I've been shilling this movie for months in "why is 2D dead" and "why aren't there more adult cartoons" threads and I've literally convinced 1 anon to watch it.
Honestly that's the only win I'd like here, I'm obviously not going to convince you that these threads are part of the problem.
Any recommendation on your part?

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>>81963761
>>81963916

Lackadaisy would be badass, but like you said, it would have to be done true to the comic.

IDK. I think it could be financially successful, though maybe it would do better as like a HBO mini series or a Netflix original.

>>81962158
23423423

>>81964981
>Yes, but like almost all live action movies of the modern period it was terrible.
There you go.