Okay, so we all know that Hussie is a hack, and this series deserved

For instance:

>>Rose:
Rose should have learned to play the fucking light

Rose also never really resolved her big secret with jaspers. which I'm still sad about.

>>Jake
Jake: Jake should have realized his potential, he should have fought LE

>>Story in general

Acts 6.4 through 6.7 should just be flat out cut since nothing is changed AT ALL by their loss.

>>81922431
>Rose also never really resolved her big secret with jaspers. which I'm still sad about.
Wasn't that just the MEOW/GCAT sequence for First Guardian powers?

>>81922346
>>Kids
We should have seen them fight Lord English.

>>reboot kids
We should have seen them fight Caliborn.

>>Rose
Hussie ended her arc with Kanaya after Act 5 Part 2.

>>Jane
>we find out that she is good in narrating
>otherwise, only good character development with fucking Caliborn

>>Trolls
Biggest mistake Hussie ever made. It gave him a huge boost in popularity, but caused a massive storm of autism.

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another iteration of Doc comes on post-scratch earth and trolls both characters and audience instead of another useless GS-powered animal

>>81924200
>Trolls
>A mistake
>Reboot kids
>Not a mistake
Dank meme.

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>being a Karkat fan
WHY DO WE HAVE TO FUCKING SUFFER

JUST SO HE CAN BECOME A FUCKING KANAYA CLONE TO DAVE?

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friendly reminder that slick did nothing wrong but died while bec noir destroyed entire fucking universe and killed everybody and their parents, but got prospitian chick in the end

>>81924416
>and then doesn't even get Dave in the end because Jade is hotter

>The scratch happened as early as 5.2

Really?

Wow

>>81922346
Tried to wait for the dust to settle to watch act 7.

What the hell was that?
Literally what even--

Fuck it. Good music and animation tho. I look up to Clark and Toby when it comes to music production.

>>81924405
but muh roxy

To be honest, the series should have just been a straight Sburb session. A normal Sburb session would be plenty interesting, if all the quests and Denizens were explored more. And that means no Trolls, no Scratch, no Cherubs, and as much as it pains me, no Felt/Midnight Crew. All of those ideas could have gone into different adventures. The best scenario I can think of is if Hussie finished Homestuck after a year, made a Midnight Crew adventure with the Felt/Lord English as the antagonist, and then made a Troll adventure. Sure, you could say all those elements together made Homestuck what it was, and I agree, I like a lot of it, but it made the story a complete mess. They needed to be separate stories is all I'm saying. Hussie had the idea for Homestuck a few months before Problem Sleuth ended, and it's not like he shoved in that. He waited.

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for whoever lamented the insufficient thickness of the royal black thighs

>>81924546
To be fair, Slick destroyed a universe too.

>>81924592
Don't you remember mobius double reacharound? We only explored the trolls so that we could see their fucked up session and reasons for scratching, so that we could have further symmetry/drama/investment in the kid's scratch.

>>81924609
They're good characters, but were wholly unnecessary. The Trolls contributed way more to the plot, and also had some good characters.

Fuck the dancestors right off though.

>>81924405
The reboot kids were actually planned earlier than John finding out about ectobiology - which if I remember right, took place before the trolls were intended to be more than a tiny handful of characters.

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>>81924546
tfw these two are better and more interesting characters than most of "main" cast

>>81924668
Just because they were planned early doesn't mean they were a worthwhile addition to the plot.

Hussie said he had parts of the ending planned before he started Homestuck. Doesn't mean it wasn't a shit ending.

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>>81924630
Not me but I'll benefit anyway, thanks Glub!

>>81924684
Sorry I'm tired and didn't read further up than one post. Just thought I'd provide tangential information that I think is neat, which may or may not have been relevant.

>>81922346
To be honest, if we ignore the minor details, I'm fine with everything up till Game Over. The ancestor dreambubble shit was kind of a joke and the post-trickster drama was painful to sift through, but they don't really hurt the overall story since it's just character drama without any consequences. Rewrite it and handle things a bit better, but there's nothing conceptually wrong them. And everything leading up to that point was more or less decent, or at least done so well that I can't think of any major "delete all of this" improvements off the top of my head.

>>Act 6.7 (Game over)
That is, until [S] Game Over and the retcon garbage. It's a completely pants on head retarded dipshit storytelling move that ruins the conclusion everything was building up to in every conceivable way. I'm fairly convinced it wasn't pre-written either, and it's just Hussie's way of bullshitting himself out of a ditch instead of putting in the effort to wrap things up properly.

Even worse, it relies on using Mary Vriska "The Best At Everything" Sue as a tool to fix things, almost to the point where her existence becomes a joke. There's so much wrong with the comic that "fixing" the story from this point is practically futile. Either end things at Cascade, or cut everything past it and just redo the whole fucking thing from the ground up.

>> Trolls (in general)
This might be an unpopular opinion here, but I don't really care. They were part of the story from the start, and even though some aspects of their culture aren't meant to be taken seriously, their presence doesn't really hurt the story. They didn't overshadow the kids, and most of them get killed off before they could have any negative impact on the plot. Make Karkat less of a pussy and strip away Vriska's karma-proof plot armor. Like for instance, by having her die and realize that she isn't such hot shit in the afterlife. Oh wait. Also, the "real" ancestors were great.

Funfact:

Try to summarize story of Homestucl in two-three sentences.

It is impossible because Homestuck had no actual story, just random scenes garbled together.

Make Eridan useful.
Starting off very strong and squandering your potential as well as having fuck all for interpersonal relationship skills hit too close to home. I just wanna vicariously be a hero.

>>81924742
It's about a couple kids playing a reality altering video game. They fight invincible demons with help from an alien race and kid versions of their guardians. Then they create a universe.

>>81924742
some kids explore reality-breaking game which is also cancerous reproduction system of multiverse that went wrong
a lot of different minor characters involved
hilarity may or may not ensue

>>81924715
>less of a pussy
But Karkat isn't a pussy. Just look at him charge at Gamzee and Lord English.

It's just Hussie loves to castrate him, turn him into a cuck and give all his cool shit to Caliborn.

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>when you remember the (non)existence of Hiveswap

>>81924742
Try to summarize story of War and Peace in two-three sentences, faggot

>>81924810
There is war and then there is peace.

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>>reboot kids (in general)
Roxy is alright, keep her. Dirk is just Dave with more issues, Jake is just John but he's a pussy, and Jane is.. uh, Jane. Give those three an actual, enjoyable character that doesn't conflict with the original kids and you're set.

>>Villains (in General)
Every instance of Jack was solid fucking gold, and Caliborn practically deserves to be the protagonist of the story. He's unanimously agreed to be the saving grace of Act 6 next to the meteor segments. Condesce works too, but have them fucking do SOMETHING. Killing all of the villains off in a joke flash while ignoring all of their backstories and nature makes no sense. One of the Jacks was infused with the fucking spirit of Lord English, killing him off with a single slice doesn't seem right. Same with Condie, she was supposedly cursed to be immortal, a plot point which never gets brought up again after Roxy finishes her off with a single cheap shot.

>>Game mechanics
SBURB and the frogs aren't even fucking explained. The game ends with the kids making it to the new universe inside the frog they made, located IMMEDIATELY NEXT TO A FUCKING BLACK HOLE TEARING REALITY ITSELF APART. It's not even a case of poor storytelling, elements just plain conflict with each other because Hussie didn't think this through. Make the rules before the story.

There's also the notion that all of the characters were predestined to do everything, and nobody in the story has any real agency because the "alpha timeline" dictates everything. And John's retcon powers do more harm than good, the concept is already stupid. This is more of a vague suggestion, but I think having the four original kids be just random-ass humans on Earth who started playing a game they knew nothing about would be much more better. Also, show their fucking neighbours. Or a single other person on Earth besides them. Everything feels completely empty, almost as if made for the few square miles the kids exist in, with nothing else outside.

>>81922346
Destroy typing quirks when speaking.
Or have an option to turn them off. I skipped most of Solux's dialogue, the 2hiit was unreadable.
Also, Hussie had a tendency to do FUCKING NOTHING for 100 pages, then do all the interesing plot advancing in like 2 minutes/2 panels. [S] Descend is a great example.
Problem Sleuth was far better at that (also, no dialogue forced Hussie to actually narrate stuff)

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Man, Jane was a shit character EXCEPT when she was evil.

>>81924798
>when you deeply hope for the alien planet to be post-sgrub alternia and then realize that Karkat did fuck-all to the bloodcaste system other than having highbloods worship his ass

>>81922346
>Trolls
Everything about them was handled like shit.
Really, all their interesting shit (quests, skaia, aradiabots, etc) was TOLD rather than shown. I'd like to see Karkat vs his shit denizen any day over fucking LARP shit.
The story didn't really need 24 more characters when the 4 original ones hadn't even finished their fucking quests.

>>81925043
I wish Hussie had written proper resolution and growth out of the girls' evil phases.

>>81924715
Yeah. I'm gonna agree with you on this one. You almost think Game Over should just be the end of the story unless AH could get John to hobble his way through the story to the ending. I think instead he should change up the events of A6A6I3 so that not everyone dies instantaneously, namely Jane. Then you can get revive shenanigans going to bring people back and continue the story in a meaningful way.

>>81925169
or just confine retcon to one precise fix instead of bullshit-wide fuckery that returned Vriska for no reason and made 3 years worth of the story irrevelant

>>81924715
The worst part about the retcon is that all Vriska did was give advice and then go to use the juju on Lord English. Why did she need to be alive to do that? The juju was in her hands as a ghost before the retcon. Vriska literally stole it from (Vriska) after calling her a bitch.

All the Game Over->Retcon did was (a) give an artificial "all is lost" moment that did not last for more than half a second and was basically a repeat of Dave: Accelerate and (b) retcon some of the interpersonal relationships of characters to make some people's headcanons feel better and to make everyone following the actual story feel no longer invested in the characters. And I guess (c) kill off all the alternate versions of John so that people stopped asking "is X from a doomed timeline?", but I'm sure you could find another Typhus deal to do that.

>>81924798
The only good thing to come out of Hiveswap is Joey.
She is the best girl I swear to god.
And that Minus8 flash is the best

>>81922346
My problem with retcon is it's dumb as fuck.
John could have, with some effort, gone to Caliborn's session, punch him in the face before he meets Yaldabaoth and be done with it.
He can do that as he literally meets the guy randomly.

>>81922346
>>Game mechanics
Andrew struck gold with sburb. While he didn't have a large fanbase while he was developing it, you can tell that he put quite a bit of thought into it (despite reader commands largely driving how it evolved). it's a shame that the focus shifted to what was abnormal with a session rather than what was normal.

>>81924642
HE WAS PROVOKED AND EMOTIONALLY VULNERABLE
SLICK DINDU NUFFIN

>>81924742
Protagonist is not stuck in home. 7000 pages of nothing pass. It is revealed that he was stuck in a home all along.

>>81922346
>>Act 6.5 (caliborn's adventures)
This whole segment was on par with acts 1 - 4, and I'm not even the biggest caliborn fan. Has some of my favorite jokes, a highlight being the rollerball mouse welded to the desk.

>>81922346
>Davesprite
Dave should've had at least one more conversation with Davesprite. Davepetasprite^2 was way too cheap of a solution to Davesprite's troubles.

Does anybody have the picture of John explaining how PunchCards work, and it has ASCII art?

>>81922346
>>other
Diamonds Droog should have been more important in act 6. He was the underlying force to quite a lot of things early on in the story, and to have him be pretty much out of the picture in a session that derse has practically free reign over seems odd.

>>81922346
Remember when Bec Noir was the evilest thing?
He should have stayed the evilest thing.

Homestuck needed more archagents, and the exile narrative needed to be more prevolent. That way you could do some interesting things with causality without having to go into the whole scratched unvierse and lord english narrative.

>>81922346
>Act 6.7 (game over)
Don't retcon, suffer the consequences, and bring back who you can.

>Karkat's blood powers render him weirdly immune to lava, he fucking emerges naked and steaming
>Rose is not RIP, she rezzes because getting stabbed by a trident like that was a sucker's death

John, Roxy, Dirk, Karkat and Rose are the last ones left. Terezi dies ordering them to get that fucking ring, in order to rez Jane, who in turn rezzes everyone else. Boss fight against Condense, with someone running around getting the rez train going.

>>81925404
Wait, minus8 did a flash? Link please.

>>81924861
>Caliborn practically deserves to be the protagonist of the story.

He really does. Both sets of kids used the jujus they came across to skip over their personal growth and undo their mistakes. Caliborn, at most, used the crowbar to shut Andrew up and break his clock at the end. He's really the only character to get through Sburb and claim his reward honestly. He also had to work the hardest to get it.

>>81925207
Also a very good idea.

>>81925684
http://swfchan.com/34/167430/

It's actually a lot like Homestuck as a whole.
Great music, good buildup, and an ultimately unsatisfying ending.

>>81925698
All he ended up doing was killing ghosts that shouldn't have even existed, dream bubbles are an anomaly.

He's doing less damage destroying paradox space than an adult cherub would in an actual universe.

You could argue that killing the most primordial ancient beings in non-existence is bad, but that's a pretty tough argument. Horrorterrors are not the nicest of guests.

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I always wanted to know if bishops had cool powers, like a small version of the red miles or something.

>>81925740
But he's disrespectful to women, so he must be a bad guy.

Also he's just too damn strong. I'd kill him on that merit alone. Which is probably why Vriska seems to be the only one actually interested in killing him: as a challenge.

>>81925680
Or just have Gamzee pile drive him and knock him out like JOHN CENA because that's also viable. John's retcon could be to catch the ring of life as it slips from aranea in order to bring Jane back to heal anyone else.

>Karkat finally shows his blood powers
>by killing off all the protags except for WV and PM for some reason
>yfw

How to fix homestuck:

Do not show the trolls in much depth, and do not prototype bec. This is what perpetuated the story to a point where it got too large and hussie made it drawn out and bloated.

The trolls contact the kids as they are floating in their veil, for some reason. It's still the indestructible demon noir, just not prototyped with bec, but he got to post-scratch earth without entering through the frog. Maybe a transportalizer or something. This way you can have the trolls weakened, but have the god tier kids enter the trolls session to save the day, picking up the exiles along the way.

Then after noir is beaten boss style along with the trolls, you could have homestuck 2: hivebent.

>>81925787
At that point there's almost no point in going easy on the deaths. I'm kind of torn on whether to keep as many of the deaths as possible because we're reaching the climax of the story anyway, or to proffer up the free life rezzes as a quick reversal so the final battles still have plenty of mulch for the grinder.

>>81925628
http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=002745

?

>>81925698
character that was supposed to be a main antagonist at the end turns out to be the most interesting, inspiring and coherent as, well, character, outrunning even the main cast

MAIN CAST

just
how can you fuck up something so much?

>>81925863
>indestructible
>not prototyped with bec

How to fix Homestuck:
>Start over.
>Make everyone a human girl.
>Set the story in an all-girl high school in Japan.
>Find a way to integrate the creation of an idol group into the narrative.

Though in all honesty, I do wonder if Homestuck's narrative sufferings were the result of Andrew desperately trying to keep the comic from becoming your average anime.

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>>81925934
Lots of stuff have villains more interesting than the good guys. I thought /co/ like that.

>>81925404
>>81925731
That's not minus8's work. Just copping his style.

>>81925962
trolls are weak and tired etc., noir is pissed and catches them off guard. I'd easily believe it

>>81925910
>there is a universe where homestuck was so good and shortlived it hit cult status and gamefaqs put the walkthroughs as eastereggs, RL signature and all

>>81922346

I think the main problem is how integrated the alpha kids and the cherubs were in the story. This is the sort of thing that can be dodged when a story is planned out in full instead of tacked on in pieces.

Which is hilarious because the cherubs and the alpha kids apparently were planned much earlier than the trolls.

The cast expands too much. While the trolls were interesting, I think shortening the story and better fleshing out the other characters would do a lot of justice to the overall story.

So, cut out the trolls. Let's replace the trolls with the alpha kids and the cherubs at the same time. Maybe even restrict who is talking to who to some extent. Maybe Jade only talks to Jake for instance.

A lot of Karkat parts can be taken over by Caliborn without any difficulty. For instance...

http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=002759

uu: HELLO JADE.
GG: oh nooooooo
uu: GUESS WHAT TODAY IS.
uu: THAT'S RIGHT.
uu: IT'S THE DAY THAT YOu FuCK EVERYTHING uP.
GG: >:O
uu: HOW ARE WE TO BECOME FRIENDS IF YOU RECOIL FROM MY OLIVE BRANCH?
GG: you can leave me alone!!!!!
GG: how can you even be talking to me after i blocked you....
GG: AND after i logged out????
uu: YOu DON'T GET THAT I AM BETTER AND SMARTER THAN YOu IN EVERY WAY, FOREVER.
uu: YOu DON'T GET THAT BECAUSE YOu ARE INCREDIBLY STUPID.
GG: i get that youre a jerk and you should shut up!
GG: goodbye you jerk!!!!!!!!!

See? It works. Just a quick splice of early Karkat with some lines from Caliborn.

>>81925994
The problem isn't that Caliborn is great, because he is. The problem is that the main cast isn't ONLY shitty in comparison. They're shitty, period.

>>81926030
What was up with Karkat's relationship with the cherubs anyway? Their quirks mirror Karkat's, text colors are all nearly the same, candy red blood/lime green blood paralleling Karkat's blood and his caste position. Was it all just a red herring? If so, why? Karkat was nearly irrelevant in Act 6.

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so, anon, what made you hate spider8itch the most?

>>81926071
karkat was nannasprite who is LE all along

>>81924625
I feel ya, it would of been more interesting to tackle each on separately with little hints that they could be connected. And then when no one is paying attention, combined them all for one big giant cross-over.

That would be pretty fun.

Worst Beta Human:
Post-retcon Rose

Worst Alpha Human:
Jane, Jake

Worst Patron Trolls:
Karkat, Vriska

Worst Pre-Retcon characters:
Karkat, Vriska

Legit cucks:
Pre--retcon Karkat, Pre-retcon Vriska

>>81926074
overexposure

got sick of her by that one john walkaround

>>81926071
At this point, we can just assume that Karkat's existence was Paradox Space's coping method with the fact that Lord English ensured that no lime blood could ever survive in A2 and, thus, would leave an empty spot on the roster without someone to fill it in.

>>81926026
what?

>>81926079
What if Scratch/LE is like punchcard alchemy in that there are multiple ways he can be created in a universe? In some other timeline a Karkat+Nannasprite+Bec Noir fusion might've been a Lord English.

>>81926128
Actually nevermind, that's just embarrassingly dumb. Forget I said this post.

>>81926074
alot of things
but creating GCATavrosprite was the worst, after all blabbering about how she "helps" him
she fused the dude with his fucking allergen, for fucks sake. Shit, it's a straight up elaborate torture, but nobody seems to care.

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>>81926127
Imagine coming across this on the walkthrough of a game you've never heard of. would be a pretty sweet easter egg

>>81926071
He met Calliope on the lilypad for like five seconds, that's about it. I think Hussie intended for him to be some sort of a secondary protagonist of the story, then shifted all of his unused potential onto Caliborn so he could also have a bigger villain at the same time.

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>>81922346
I awaited the Final Joke and got nothing. Then again that's probably how it was meant to be: disappointing. So there's no real reason to try to "fix" anything.

LONG LIVE KING KARKAT

>>81926030

Further examples:


uu: HELLO DAVE.
uu: GuESS WHAT I WANT TO PLAY.
uu: THAT'S RIGHT. A GAME.
uu: A GAME WHERE WE PuT THE FACTS OuT ON THE TABLE IN FRONT OF uS.
uu: ABOuT HOW AWFuL YOU REALLY ARE.
TG: oh my god you type like a tool
uu: HELLO DAVE. LET'S PLAY A GAME.
TG: nah
TG: this is so weak im almost getting tired of wasting good material on you guys
TG: its like
TG: youve got nothing
TG: its always one of you sprouting up and ranting about how hard im about to get trolled
TG: with no ensuing substance
TG: you dont even know anything about us
TG: one of you fuckers thought i was a girl
uu: IT CAN BE HARD SOMETIMES.
uu: TO TELL THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TRuE MEN.
uu: AND THE BITCHES.
uu: ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY ARE THE SAME.
uu:THE THING IS THAT I DON'T CARE ABOuT THAT.
uu: ABOuT YOUR ANATOMICAL DETAILS.
uu: OR THE *DIIIRTY* THINGS THAT YOu GET uP TO.
uu: I KNOW WHAT YOu'VE DONE.
uu: OR WILL DO, ACTuALLY.
uu: IT'S THE MOST AWFuL THING. THE WORST YOu CAN EVER DO.

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>>81926074
it's not her per se, it's how she is treated by the narrative
while every other douchebag gets thoroughly called out and punished by the story and characters alike, she gets away with everything, learns nothing and everyone just licks her boots
the way tavros was groveling before her, especially post retcon was the most disturbing part, I was so uncomfortable I skipped most of the pesterlog
hussie pls love yourself and get an imaginary girlfriend that isn't abusive at least

>>81926208
The Ultimate Joke was something about pre-destination and free will and how they don't seem to work together.

>>81926074
When I realized she was never going to truly fuck off and go away.
If there were some type of event that killed everyone including their doomed timeline versions, somehow and some fucking way Vriska would still be alive.

>>81926278
Or how you can't give characters free will without conceding that the story is gonna be shitty.

>>81926074
The retcon.

Just everything about it. I'll never in a million years understand why Hussie did that. There could only be some bullshit meta point he was trying to make which in reality is just plain masturbatory because he sacrificed a good story to make it.

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>>81926074
I don't think I ever grew to specifically hate her, but after a while, like everything else in the comic, you could just tell she was there because hussie felt he needed to keep her.

I feel like this frame epitomizes it most.
She's just there, very poorly and awkwardly drawn, earth in her hands in her overpowered sylladex. It's like hussie saying "I don't know what to do so, uh... vriska will fix it. she's the main character, right?"

How would you kill Vriska off if you were Hussie?

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>>81926074
I really enjoyed all the parts of Homestuck without her. Especially the parts where she was dead.

And then Hussie decided, Actually, no, the characters literally can't handle themselves without her.

There was not a single fucking thing that happened in Collide that required a living Vriska. Not one. Not a single one. All Hussie had to do was not shoehorn Aranea into the pre-retcon session and he could have just fucking had Collide happen right away after the characters meet up organically.

>>81926441
And you know what, that's the thing. That's precisely the thing.

Everything about Homestuck was perfectly serviceable up until Act 6.6. Not just Act 666 specifically. Just the whole of Act 6.6.

In a single subact Hussie dismantled EVERYTHING for NO reason.

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>>81926417
>travel to the future
>see how fucking shit Karkat's character arc has gotten and that Caliborn stole everything from him
>have john or a random character strap Karkat with a billion tnts
>throw him at Vriska
>set the explosives off
>enjoy a good comic

>>81926417
Have her stay dead after Terezi kills her.

>>81926417
She WAS killed off, in a decent way too.
He could have just not bought her back.

unrelated, but one thing I really hate about homestuck is how many second chances there are.

>main life
>dream self
>Alpha/Doomed timeline shit
>revival smooch
>life player revival
>prototyping the dead
>ring of life
>R E T C O N P O W E R S

You can't have tension in a story where all these second chances exist.

At most, give everyone one extra life, have it expend in an extravagant and worthwhile way, and then enjoy having some good, looming "if they fuck up again they are toast" tension along the way.

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>>81926074
nothing
literally best character

only thing i kinda let me down was the fact that alternate vriska didnt come back and fight with her
her one true enemy being herself

I have to hide this thread.

No offense to anyone. But thinking about how decent Homestuck was until it completely soiled itself at the very last minute with such a basic writer's error as a retcon- in a story that used to be intricately designed to prevent exactly this kind of abuse of time travel in a narrative- hurts too much.

>>81926549
Fair enough.

It hurts deep down but I'm too apathetic to feel bad about it.

We'll have sylladex shenanigans in our dreams.

>>81926549
>>81926592
But we still haven't seen the epilogue! Oh who am I kidding it'll be just as horrible if not more

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Finally found this! I thought I saw art criticism from Hussie in an old thread but I lost it and now I found it. Anon posted it sayin "post rare Hussie stuff" but later on I asked about these and someone else said "Not Hussie. Kazerad" and im confused now, whose is this?

1/4

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>>81926679

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>>81926690

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>>81926703

>>81926074
Vriska was a bunch of things. She was fun to read and probably fun to write. Problem is Hussie couldn't stick to an angle for her. As a control freak who micromanaged everyone's affairs to try and aggrandize herself while surrounding herself with weaklings who wouldn't put up a fight against her bullshit, she was fun to hate. When she started retroactively causing all of the bad things that ever happened in Homestuck, creating the very enemy that denied the trolls their reward and chased them like dogs now, not even to create a villain she could be the hero against, but just so that every single part of the story could be about her, I said "seriously, what the fuck Hussie."

Once dead Hussie kind of reigned her in a little. She was still her obnoxious, manipulative self, but people stood up to her a little and she was doing things with purpose rather than just to be the center of attention. She even had a nice crowning moment as a complex character who was petty, but driven:
http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=007950

Now read that in light of everything that happens next. Seriously, Hussie, what the fuck. First he erased the good by making her a tool who just lists through non-life undermining the maniacal conviction she once had but still couldn't let go of the juju because deep down she still wanted to be relevant, then when people complained about that, he completely missed the point made a retcon that completely validated the bad sides of her personality and undid the fact that people around her grew a spine and stopped putting up with the more obnoxious parts of her personality.

>>81926828
>creating the very enemy that denied the trolls
Wasn't Karkat to blame for that? He even had a huge rant that he created the cancer that killed the human universe.

And now we are supposed to laugh at him for being a cuck and suffering for no reason?

>>81926709
pretty good find if real. though I'm sure the criticisms aren't really valid in this case as andrew overdoes his poses and perspective leading to the exact same problems

>>81926978
Well, she was the one that made John fall sleep when he was tryng to prototype shit, forcing Bec to prototype himself to save Jade from the meteor.

>>81926828

>vriska is manipulative

can we stop this meme? She's not manipulative, she's just a bully who is able to force people into doing things she wants. If she was manipulative then she wouldnt be well known as a bitch

>>81926828
Mm. I loved Vriska, but hated (Vriska) and post-retcon Vriska. She lost the parts of her character that made her so charming before. I just couldn't like her anymore (though, really, I experienced the same thing with many of the other characters as well, Rose and Dave the most).

I love Caliborn, though, in pretty much the same way I loved Vriska. He matches her in some respects while having his own unique charm that makes him so enjoyable a character. Even with him going off on how much he hates everyone and wants to kill people, he's still so very charming that I can't find him hateful at all. Which is funny how I have the opposite feelings for Calliope. She wasn't REALLY that bad at first, like the B2 Kids were, but she just became so bland and the fact that the story tried to push hard how likable she's supposed to be left a real bad taste in my mouth.

>>81926549
>thinking about how decent Homestuck was until it completely soiled itself at the very last minute with such a basic writer's error as a retcon- in a story that used to be intricately designed to prevent exactly this kind of abuse of time travel in a narrative- hurts too much.

Yeah, from what I've seen of Homestuck, what I really get from it is that most creators really need to be careful when treading about with time travel fuckery, otherwise shit can get real messy.

>>81926074

I hated her at first but then grew to like her and realise shes actually one of the most identifiable characters, i'd even go so far to say she was justified in killing Tavros.

>>81926978
As with all things in paradox space, the exact cause of things is unclear and often times redundant. Karkat failed to make the frog right and this manifested as the Tumor and PROBABLY as the eventual destruction of the universe at the hands of Jack. But Vriska DIRECTLY causes the Bec prototyping by putting John asleep when he was about to prototype a doll that'd make Jack armless and unable to wield the ring. She did this because she thought his creation was inevitable so SHE wanted to be the one who did it.

>>81926679
I can picture that being Kazerad since he enjoyed posting & mocking people in the awful webcomics thread on SA. He's very judgmental.

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What was the fucking point of this character?

>>81922346
>>81924625

one thing i'd have liked the series to answer definitively one way or the other, is whether there's ever been a "normal" session of sburb, or any session of sburb that exists outside the three universes portrayed in the series.

because really we never get any meaningful evidence that the multiverse actually exists beyond these three shitty universes fucking each other into existence + the big green shitty Exalted sun

Eh, I hated Vriska. She stole way too much screen time. I wanted the focus on the beta kids.

>>81927154
he is easy to project unto
hussie is saying none of us will ever amount to anything

>>81927154
At this point, I just think that Karkat was meant to "motivate" people towards doing the right thing?

I mean, he did lead his fellow trolls to a victory in his session, He's gotta be real good at leading in order to do that. Even Meenah couldn't lead her own group to victory.

>>81927154
I think the space-time continuum inside Hussie's brain required a Tavros to exist. Karkat became the new Tavros when the old one died and became an achiever of things.

>>81926161

the thing is though, in Vriskas mind she actually is helping him, Tavros was never really forced to have anything to do with Vriska at all.

After a while I found it truly hard to hate Vriska for how she treated Tavros since Tavros never stood up for himself, and when he did he tried using violence, Tavros persistently threw himself into those situations with her

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So thoughts on pic related? what was even the point?

>>81927228
Didn't he just bully and manipulate people into doing shit the good way? Because that's what his leading was.

>>81925910
Yeah, thanks!

>>81922346

I would have looked past the ultimately boring and easily beaten Lord English to consider the game itself as a villain, since the game is the actual thing that brutally annihilates planets full of sentient life just so it can make shitty universe frogs, and that's before you get into the largely railroaded and predestined nature of the game.

Like IDEK how the end of homestuck is even supposed to be a happy ending or whatever, two species had to be murdered (twice each, thanks to the scratches) so that a handful of shitty losers could hang out in a shitty empty new universe and, what, all be faggots together?

The plot of sburb should have been these kids looking for the creator[s] of sburb so they can stab him[/them] in the eye.

>>81927361
He was one of my favorite joke characters before he became full edgelord le spoopy cloun

I kind of feel like he was hussies way of finding a reason to kill off other joke characters, but then he just stuck around way too long and became an overstayed joke in and of himself.

>>81927381
Well if heat death is the end of a universe killing the frog, the system in place to create new universes is hardly perfect, but the purpose it serves is ultimately for the best.

>>81924742
/sug/ is in >>>/trash/.

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>>81927361
He got to raise Caliborn and keep Hussies Juggalo fetish contained.
What was HIS point?

>>81922346
>Spade slick
>villain

>>81927381
>The plot of sburb should have been these kids looking for the creator[s] of sburb so they can stab him[/them] in the eye.

Now that you bring that up, I have to wonder who or what actually created sburb? I mean, was it created somehow during all that shit going on in Act 7, or did some douchebag just decide to create it?

>>81927249

I hope you get hit by a car

>>81927361
Shrug. I have very few feelings about the guy or his role in Murderstuck. Sometimes he was funny and sometimes he wasn't. Bout all there is to the character.

>>81927412

Some of you guys are alright, don't come to the meteor tomorrow

Looking back on Homestuck, my favorite part was the midnight crew intermission.

Least favorite was the retcon. I feel like it could of worked, if it had been longer and we'd seen more character development as opposed to just the end result of the character development. I think Hussie mistakenly thought thought people would grow sick of that really fast.

>>81927448
>was it created somehow during all that shit going on in Act 7
not insulting you, but how would that train of thought even arise?

>>81927459

okay buddy pal

>>81927412
Looking cool as heck and giving a representative of the Hope aspect that could show off the aspect's power yet be safely killed thanks to his villainous nature.

I would have kept him alive though; he had a lot more potential for character development than Vriska and Kanaya.

>>81927448
sburb is paradox driven, he has no start or end, it just always existed even though that's a form of impossibility.

>>81927361

I really wish he had more real character development besides ''he went crazy and killed people lol!''

>>81927412
>To make an aquarius have a character to bond with then get shat on.

It still hurts.

WeLoveFine contest status?

>>81927486

literally kill yourself

>>81927476
Shit, I don't know. Maybe what was in the treasure was also the first prototype of sburb? Maybe the frog had something to do with it?

God, I just want Hussie to make the epilogue already so that these questions can be answered. It feels like Homestuck hasn't even properly ended.

>>81927490

I feel like to some extend he was made just to be killed, he was specifically written so people would want to see him die and then he dies in one of the most spectacular ways possible.

I agree though, he was generally much more interesting than Kanaya, Vriska had potential for character development but was just written badly

>>81927527

sure friendo

>>81927545
>Maybe the frog had something to do with it?
we don't know where the original frog appearified from, so yeah, who the fuck knows? it being white might just be the result of three sessions contributing to it, but I don't know how that would relate to the origin of sburb.

you're right about the juju being a fucking anomaly though.

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Where did he go wrong?

>>81927545
>so that these questions can be answered

you are kidding yourself if you think the epilogue is going to answer anything

it's going to be like when they padded some meaningless shit onto the ending of ME3 that didn't make anything any better or fix any of the problems

but when are we gonna see the SQUIDDLES session?

>>81927490
>he had a lot more potential for character development than
No he didn't, Eridan was the DSP of Sburb, except actually written to be funny. The entire reason he was great was that he was literally incapable of learning or taking responsibility. I agree that he should have been kept around longer though.

>>81927621
>>81927666
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_a31_BXcTgg

relevant

>>81927666

there was never a squiddles session because the multiverse is literally actually just these three universes' worth of autists

>>81927154
Dropped character and reduced to ship bait. We will see him having an angry manlet tantrum while giving a speech to the carapaces. Keep in mind that this is just an epilogue scene.

OR

We shouldn't give too much of a shit about post-retcon Karkat, so he can write him off as an asshole later for Hiveswap.

>>81927448
Maybe it's an infinite chain leading in both directions. Maybe it represents the reproductive organs of a species that follow some sort of evolutionary origin. Maybe the horror-terrors created it one day when really bored and watching it is a form of entertainment to them.

Some mysteries are just mysteries.

>>81927448
There doesn't need to be a creator, anon. Is it that hard to think that the way reality (or, well, the greater reality) works can be represented through an interface that resembles video games and programming? It's like how people say reality is math. The "video game" is just how each particular manifestation of Sburb we've seen chooses to present itself.

>>81927666
Homestuck 2.0 will be an anime about the Squiddle session.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmEZzp7o8i8

>>81927725
>Some mysteries are just mysteries.

not when they kill your entire species

why is homestuck fandom full of genocidal autismos who think this is okay?

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Does anyone else feel like Caliborn is basically the most tragic character of homestuck? Incapable of growth, he's doomed to repeat himself until death

>>81927769
I'm pretty sure they're mysteries the most then. What with no one being alive to shed any clues on the situation.

>>81927769
>not when they kill your entire species
what about the elementary particles that make up our physical reality? they're resonpsible for our laws of physics, they are uncaring and unfeeling, and we do not understand them.

sburb is much in the same vein

>>81927769
>genocidal autismos

answered your own question m8. homestuck is meant to appeal to autists who wouldn't care about the human race being wiped out because literally nothing is real to them outside their personal spergspace

>>81927769

Why are you getting morally invested in an internet webcomic?

>>81927800

caliborn is literally the only character who achieves meaningful growth/development

Why couldn't Homestuck have just focused on Dersite politics instead?

>>81927837

he grows from angry green baby to angry green gorilla

>>81927725
the problem with homestuck is that too many things are just mysteries

Homestuck and sburb have a lot of things that could be very interesting lorewise. Like how you can play an elderscrolls game, then go online later and just read up a shitload of background info that peppers the world.

But we will probably never get that with homestuck. Too much semi-psuedo-ironic hyper-contrarian psyche-out delayed gratification going on.

The main time we do get some straight forward info is from characters who just end up being walking exposition dumps (aranea and calliope)

I do hope at some point, he gives us not just epilogue info, but actual "here's some lore and facts about this universe I created but largely left unexplored since the scenario in the story is hugely a-typical of the game"

>>81927809
>we do not understand them

which is why governments spend a lot of money on science to figure them out.

>>81927831

why would you ever consume a work as massive as homestuck and not consider it morally? are you an autist or merely a sociopath?

>>81927448
I like to think the first players were hyperintelligent science frogs that broke everything to see what happens.

>>81927800
He's the only one who ACTUALLY grew, though. In the most natural and satisfying way, actually.

>>81927769
Earth is the testicle and all humans on it are the sperm and one day the great prostate will call for the ejaculation of all those sperm into the SBurb vagina. Sure almost all of them will die, but perhaps one can reach the Skaian egg and breed new life.

You cannot stop the spasm, the ejaculation is already set in motions by forces beyond your understanding even if under your control. Your only choice is to be the best sperm you can be and reach the egg.

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Currently rereading all of it, the last time I got to about the middle of act 6 before I gave up.

Should I just skip every single dialoglog of the alpha kids unless it involves the cherubs?

>>81927889

even if this were true, which it isn't, it would still be more growth and change than what is demonstrated by the rest of the cast of homestuck.

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>>81922346
>It's a Homestuck thread without Homestuck in the name
For real, HS's main flaw is the absolutely batshit amount of scope creep.

We started with 4 kids playing a game and chess people on post-apocalyptic Earth, and ended up with 8 kids playing a game with 12 trolls, 2 cherubs, plus a variety of barely relevant chess people and ancestor trolls.
The story became the clusterfuck it is (in)famous for, an epic spanning two universes and five sessions, where every character had some depth to them and every detail could become crucial.
That's why we loved it, I think. Every character and chekov's gun could become important. Anything could happen, and that's why the chaotic "update culture" was so addictive.

At some point I assume Hussie realized he'd have to spend seven more years on this crap to tie up half the plot points and finish half the character arcs, and that's when he slowly slid down the slippery slope of Fuck This I Give Up and into the abyss of bullshit that were the Retcons and Act 7.
But before this, I think the story's biggest mistake was focusing on both the trolls AND the alpha kids, when it should have been an either/or choice.

Andrew Hussie is a man who dreamed so big he was crushed under the weight of his own creation.
God forgive his poor stained soul.

>>81922346
>Ancestor Trolls

Don't even waste time with the Alpha Trolls if they're just shitting on your own fanbase. If you make characters, FUCKING DO SOMETHING WITH THEM. It triggers me that Hussie not only could've gotten some great moments and reflection on how far a character has come if they just talked with their equivalent. It also would've let Hussie TELL the retards who he was making fun of what they're doing wrong, even if that specific Alpha troll doesn't learn a lesson from it.

>Alpha Kids

Introduce them earlier. They essentially had to speed run their development throughout all of Act 6, and it makes the moments where they act like retards really hard to read through. Get rid of the relationship drama, or at least make Jane die because FUCK her.

>Vriska

Let her learn a fucking lesson! Literally just this unstoppable walking plot device who acts like a cunt, and learns nothing from it no matter how many times she gets told off or pummeled.
WHY. The thing that Hussie said about preventing "NepetaQuest" was an okay point at the time, but the story might as well be called VriskaQuest now.

>>81927907

i take it you're one of those people who get angry at others for liking an 'immoral' character and ruin discussion for everyone else

>>81927932
I think you can just watch the flashes, calliope+jad(n)e and aranea's stories and prob you won't miss anything.

The only one who deserves to be bullied by Vriska is fucking Karkat.

Prove me wrong.
Even fucking Tavros trained to become a Cavalreaper, while Karkat was busy watching Romcoms, playing video games and flail like a retard with his sickle.

what's Hiveswap's plot?

>>81927929

that's a retarded, evil way to conceive of sentient species, and anything that thinks that should be fought and killed.

>>81927994
Vriska never really bullied Karkat, felt more like playful teasing

>>81928008
Joey and brown-blood coolkid switch places.

They try to stop a doomsday weapon.

>>81927971
>everyone else

sorry i'm making you consider the actually interesting and meaningful implications of your autism comic about frogs

>>81928059
so we're not gonna see any actual lore involving Sburb..... instead just troll stuff...

>>81928026
Such pampered ideologies. When the spasm comes, if you choose to abstain, you will die irrelevant. As will between 99.99978 and 100% of the others, regardless of their beliefs and their ok-ness with the situation which will happen regardless of their beliefs and their actions.

>>81927994

I dont get why people get defensive over Tavros, he gets himself into shit by refusing to stand up for himself and thinks that trying to kill Vriska counts as 'confidence'.

He basically brought his death upon himself imo, he could have just decided to have nothing to do with Vriska like the rest of the trolls, instead he chose the immature option and tried making some movie-esque stand against her which was retarded and got him killed.

>>81927907
>which is why governments spend a lot of money on science to figure them out.
>what is skaianet
there's a deepweb of shit in homestuck that never gets explained, so please calm your autism

remember when Karkat and Gamzee were Moirails?

>>81927994

vriska bullied tavros because he had an assigned role and sucked at it

karkat was the Special Kid of alternia; he was literally so shitty that bullying him would have had no point

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>irrelevant characters
glub glub motherfuckers

>>81928100
>When the spasm comes

okay, so now i'm talking to someone who believes that homestuck is an actually real thing?

>>81928090
Anon. Sburb is a doomsday weapon. Also Vriska's description listed her as an apocalypse buff, so she may also come back with a different name.

And what's to tell that Alternia isn't set around Condy's time of reign but by someone else?

>>81928154

her only purpose was to get killed by Eridan who in turn was an irrelevant character

>>81928117
Or the teensy bit of "character development" Gamzee got, from blackromming Terezi and feeling guilty about doing it behind Karkat's back?

I feel like Hussie dropped Gamzee's character because there were people who thought he was abusive and he got scared of waking that tiger. I mean, Hussie really tried hard to be as inoffensive as possible in Homestuck's latter (dying) days. Even deleted all those old comics of his. As a result, the story really suffered for it.

>>81928154
Feferi would have had relevance by corollary if ANYTHING HAD EVER BEEN DONE WITH THE HORRORTERRORS.

>>81926679
>>81926690
>>81926703
>>81926709

>all of these criticisms

autism.txt

>>81928166
Am I? I'm sorry did you get lost somewhere on the big boy path to the potty or did you just knowingly decide to change goal posts because you realized that it's pointless to fight against the circular causality of Paradox space?

>>81928201
>Even deleted all those old comics of his.
?

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>>81928132
>yfw Karkat was never actually a the short angry kid that's all inside of us
>he was the autistic retard no one likes, except to fuck with
he's even a mutant, girls hate being around them except the only other autist cat girl, and his best friend was a clown

>>81928201

People are way too obsessed with 'abuse' nowadays

>>81928265
Part of his old Team Special Olympics page, often very crude and politically incorrect. He didn't pick and choose things to delete, but he stopped hosting his old content which included those.

>>81927381

my favorite thing about Sburb is that it has literally no actual reason for wrecking the originating planet with meteors, as it could actually just go ahead and portal them to anywhere in the universe

it just wrecks the originating planet with meteors anyway because Sburb is a sociopathic sadistic mass murderer

>>81928265
Team Special Olympics
Hussie got to financially invested into Homestuck, and thus was more worried about being inoffensive as not to lose fans (for the wrong reasons) Hussie has always listened to his fans when making stuff, but he ended up only listening to the loudest tumblr fans

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I find amazing that people shouting at eachother in a random chatbox were able to write and drive a far better story that Hussie alone.

Completely replace Collide. What actually happened during the animation was pointless.
Spend that animation time on plot points that actually matter.

The worst was the ghost army. Not only did they achieve fucking nothing, but Act 7 has them all walking towards LE like they haven't been brawling with him.

>>81928272
Sollux was one of his friends too until that just suddenly stopped being true for no reason.

>tyrant karkat theory
>it's even supported how Echidna wants him to be trollkind's leader
>if hiveswap really is set in post-sgrub alternia, Karkat didn't do fucking jackshit to the bloodcaste system
>Trizza, the fuchsiablood troll, claims herself to be the second-best at memes

Does Dave love memes or something? Wouldn't surprise me if Karkat learned everything about human memes from Dave.

>>81928330
The entire point of the ghost army was to be bait for Lord English. Nothing more needs to be said about them.

>>81928352
Sollux was cool with Karkat because he's cool with everyone

>>81928314
>it just wrecks the originating planet with meteors anyway because Sburb is a sociopathic sadistic mass murderer

or to keep the player count down to a select group?

If they planet wasn't destroyed, other players might get in. I don't have any proof, but I feel skaia has a "1 session per planet/universe" rule. The most direct way to make sure unwanted players don't get in is to kill them.

>>81928272
>he was the autistic retard no one likes, except to fuck with

he was specifically the autistic retard nobody even really likes to fuck with

that's why vriska bullied tavros and not him. tavros was a meaningful target, bullying karkat would have just been pathetic.

karkat was just a weird shitty mutant who sperged a lot and didn't matter at all to anybody, the end

>>81928397
>or to keep the player count down to a select group?
>If they planet wasn't destroyed, other players might get in. I don't have any proof, but I feel skaia has a "1 session per planet/universe" rule. The most direct way to make sure unwanted players don't get in is to kill them.

so, because sburb is a sociopathic mass murderer

>>81928406
Vriska liked to push around Karkat in earlier panels, but ultimately saw him as a useless target because it's funner to try and get Tavros to grow

>>81928430
Sburb is not sentient. Would you call the egg a sociopathic murderer for not letting more than one sperm in?

>>81928467
>Sburb is not sentient
not that guy, but skaia is very much aware of it's own existence and fate. they say this at some point in the comic but good luck finding it.

it's why the kids' session had a tumor. it knew it was a doomed timeline from the get-go.

>>81928397
There are multiple instances of the same universe within the Genesis Frog. If you think only 2 timelines exist, well, that's ridiculous. The Genesis Frog contains an entire universe (space) and all its possibilities (time).

>>81928406
And if it wasn't for her bullying Tavros, he would have stolen Karkat's leadership role.

>>81928506
Skaia (the clouds) doesn't do anything. It only knows and reflects its knowledge in the clouds.

That's probably where you got that idea from.

>>81928110
>skaianet
this is actually really annoying. mom had ties to the lab, and all the guardians had a papertrail between them too. the lab behind roses house knew that the meteors were coming. they would come whether sburb was released on time or not. hell, meteors dropping the kids came way before.

the goverment must have known.

>>81928545
Skaianet was Grandpa's private organization, just like Grandma's Lord English themed version of it was in the B2 universe.

>>81928542
>That's probably where you got that idea from.
The session that you enter is tailored from the get-go. ectobiology stands as a causal loop for instance. the game 'knows' you will ectobiologize yourself, so it sends you back on a meteor. if the meteor containing the babies never come, it knew that you would not reach the ectobiology lab.

like many things tied to sburb, it's just a bullshit paradox that hussie can flip flop to his whim.

>>81928525

>tavros
>leading anythign

>>81928352
that's what happens when you elope with your girlfriend and don't see each other for three years.

>>81928600
Anon, he was perfectly fine until the flarp session fucked him up with Vriska bullying him constantly.

I am confused. Why was the key to defeating Lord English destroying the Green Sun?

Because why introduce another big villain and discard the old one if the new villain's weakness is exactly the same as the old one and he does not do anything of particular consequence?

Just have Bec Noir benefit somehow from the Scratch or some shit like that if you felt he was dropping off in power levels. Or just have preventing Caliborn and the Felt the main focus instead.

All these characters just seemed to sort of slide past each other rather than actually coming into conflict.

>>81928659

tavros doesnt even have the mettle to dissasociate with someone who paralysed him let alone lead a team through the apocalypse

>>81928724
>Because why introduce another big villain and discard the old one if the new villain's weakness is exactly the same as the old one and he does not do anything of particular consequence?
this made me realize that PM beating bec was pretty pointless if the green sun would be destroyed 5 minutes later rendering him defeatable again anyway.

>>81928724
Watch Act 7 again. The Black Hole doesn't stop once it consumes the green sun, but rather it grows faster and faster. Calliope uses the green sun to create the enormous black hole needed to defeat Lord English (note almost all imagery regarding the Cals and Lord English center around the black holes, i.e. the billiard pockets).

>>81928743
>what is (Tavros)

And here is something that would be a pretty fun twist.

Karkat was the Page all along, while Tavros could have been the Knight with his lance.

>>81922346
The only thing i would have changed is extended the final animation to actually show the fight between LE and the kids, as well as some parts of calliborns masterpiece both to remind people it happened and give it some credit beyond claymation

Does anyone have that test where you find out what your aspect and role would have been?

>>81928820
all the tests are pretty obvious in their deciding factors, and the ones that are all zodiac based with numerical values etc. are just pretentious for the sake of being pretentious.

pick one that feels right, or better yet, pick one that doesn't.

>>81928820
Go to >>>/trash/.

No seriously, there is a thread about aspect and role roleplaying.

>>81928724
>Why was the key to defeating Lord English destroying the Green Sun?
it wasnt. it helped by making him less powerful but the key to defeating him was the tiny cueball which took the form of daves legendary piece of shit sword. The green sun just lowered his offense not his defense.

>>81928820
This is the site I use:
https://www.random.org/

>"Karkat is a good leader!"
>all those doomed Aradias making sure their session went well until the Bec incident

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>>81928869
>pick one that feels right, or better yet, pick one that doesn't.
deep

>>81928946
I believe the only person who has ever said "Karkat is a good leader!" is himself right before crying to sleep.

>>81928820
They're all self explanatory. Ask yourself the question "what would be my playstyle in this game" then apply the class that fits it the most.

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STOP MAKING FUN OF KARKAT!

Hey anons, at what point in the plot is the part where John gains the ability to reach through time with his arm and mess around with the alpha timeline going waaaaaaay back? I'm considering finally finishing this series off now that it's done.

Related question: is it worth taking the time to complete Homestuck if you stopped reading at some point out of apathy? There's so much I hated, but there's a lot of characters I whose fates I am curious about.

No further build-up was necessary after Act 5 IMO. Act 6 was a mistake.

>>81929040
>but there's a lot of characters I whose fates I am curious about.
yeah don't worry about it. just leave it desu

>>81929045
c'mon everyone was excited to see the Alpha kids, i still remember people theorizing what the new Kids would be like

>>81929040
http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=007992

>>81928982
Didn't Vriska say herself that Karkat was too good of a leader, and that if he were shitty they might've actually succeeded in their session

>>81929118
Well he was too good at getting people to stop fighting (otherwise they'd have more god tiers). Not so good at keeping the teem on track and deciding what they should be doing.

>>81929136
That list makes no sense.

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>Hussie got his characters as a guest in some Namco dating sim that's still questionable for it's reason for existing
>but not for Indivisble
what character would be the best guest?

>>81929082
Only because the Beta kids had become annoying at that point. If we knew how awful the Alpha kids would turn out to be nobody would have been excited.

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>>81929102
the fact that pic related is totally viable to fit into the MC's canonity because of john's arm makes me so happy, I recall it was dave who looked it up at chapter 1k or something? will we ever get that midnight crew adventure or what

http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=3&p=MC0001

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>>81929045
>that tingly moment you experienced when PM arrived in front of Jack and her wings unfurled

>then because plot demanded, Jack fell in love and then ran for his life for 3 fucking years
>mfw

>>81929207
John.

>>81929102
Thank you anon. The thing about this series is that it's so fucked up you can't even find where you've left off.

>>81929059
Yeah I'll probably just make up my own endings desu. Hussie is good at coming up with 5 great characters and 2 bad ones, and then spending the next few years trolling tumblr shippers who write fanfiction shipping the 2 bad ones by focusing exclusively on their various romances.

>>81929118
That's Act 5 Vriska, anon. You shouldn't trust her words.

Like Karkat and Terezi acting like a married couple, according to her.
Or her assuming that Kanaya has a crush on Tavros.
Or that Karkat should stay off as a human.

>>81924630
erection_in_progress.jpg

>>81929203
You're just shit in bed and bothered about being informed of it.

>yfw Aradia, Sollux and Vriska aren't mentioned and don't appear in the epilogue, leaving their fates forever unknown

>>81929207
Ace Dick

>>81929273
Aradia wanted to live forever, and she will because nothing can hurt her where she is. That's kind of an ending, more than what many characters got.

Ok since this is pretty much just a homestuck thread now can some one please tell me if these questions where answered. Feel free to call me an idiot if this shit was actually explained.

A) Who raised mom and bro? How did they know about SBurb? I know Crocker explains nanna and grampa but the other side I don't get.

B) Where Jane's and John's Dad's the same person genetic wise? Where did the dads even come from?

Once again feel free to call me an idiot

>>81929218
Yep
http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=002227

Also kinda
http://mspfanventures.com/?s=13

MSP adventures are recursive, I'm pretty sure Jailbreak and Bard Quest showed up in Problem Sleuth at one point, which is canonically a thing in the Homestuck universe both as a story, and as Dersite/Prospitean chess characters.

The Felt intermission and the various instances of SS/CD/DD/HB in timelines are "technically" the stories of the Midnight Crew. In-universe, it's also what the crew of the exiled Jack from Karkat's session is called.

>>81929267
That's harsh, man.

>>81929380
Mom and Bro were technically just regular folks
Roxy was raised by capricians and Dirk was raised by himself as a baby.
They knew about sburb because mom worked in ruins and Bro was being influenced by the antagonist
>>81929380
>Where Jane's and John's Dad's the same person genetic wise?
No in one Case Dadylr was Johns Father and the other Dad was John's son. Ectobiliogy is weird like that.

>>81929380
>A) Who raised mom and bro? How did they know about SBurb? I know Crocker explains nanna and grampa but the other side I don't get.
Bro was raised by Cal, but really maybe Grandpa
Mom learned about Sburb because she worked for Grandpa, and Bro is Bro
>B) Where Jane's and John's Dad's the same person genetic wise? Where did the dads even come from?
probably adopted, but never really explained further than that

>>81928995
If pre-retcon Karezi doesn't happen during the epilogue, I just want to see (Karkat) getting shipped with (Vriska).

I will laugh my ass off if we see another scene with punk Karkat and Vriska being happy while Terezi is trying to smile without cringing herself to double-death. It would be the best update of all time. And I don't even ship these fuckers.

Also the epilogue should never show the alpha version of the kids, just minor characters like Jack Noir and Ms. Paint, the Felt, Droog and CD, Aradia and Sollux, the ghost army surviving and celebrating, alpha Vriska nowhere to be seen etc.

as someone who wants to make a webcomic, what is there to be learned from homestuck?

>>81929380
A) We don't know. It's treated as a thing that didn't matter, and I'd agree.
B) We don't know, but he pretty much has to be genetically the same for the John-pseudo-reuinion to make even the little bit of sense it does. We just don't know where the dads come from. The most logical explanation is they're adopted. If he's the biological son of both Jane AND John in separate universes, well he'd have to have been made through time-travelling incest both times.

>>81929380
They "raised themselves" after their arrival on Earth. I remember it being brought up as a point to explain how badass Dirk is or something. In the rebooted universe, the same happens to Dave and Rose, but it shows up very vaguely in like 2-3 panels.

B is never explained or even hinted at. Neither is it ever clarified whether the people living in John's neighborhood and on his dad's serious business PDA are real at all, or for that matter if a single other person lived on the planet besides the protagonists and various actors they have posters of.

>>81929464
How to do the 'transported to a new dimension' trope right. Can be a really good exercise in time travel plots. Only abiding by causality though.

Also a lesson in how more is not always a good thing.

Jane's barren womb

>>81929464
The oldest lesson of all: the more consistent your updates the kinder the reception. When the updates go, the viewers go as well.

>>81929497
>How to do the 'transported to a new dimension' trope right.
If anything, Homestuck is a terrible example because it's revealed that they've been living inside the game all along.

>>81929464
Respect your audience and your characters. That doesn't mean giving your audience exactly what they want and it doesn't mean giving your characters the spotlight or anything. It means acknowledging the implicit understanding in choosing to tell a story publicly that the journey will be worth it. Break the rules whenever you think it's important, but remember to follow them sometimes too.

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Just caught up and finished it.

I thought the buildup to the final fight was a lot better than the actual ending itself.

>>81929565
you can't kill lord english

there was never going to BE a fight

>>81929548
want to expand on that? I was thinking more of the acts 1 - 4 worldbuilding. I'm fine at admitting how shit the comic got, I just really enjoyed the early stuff.

>>81929543
even if it's shit, derivative, and doesn't appeal to a sane sense of humor?

i don't intend to make something like that, but it's always good to know what the lowest pass mark is

>>81929591
RTFC

>>81929599
Considering the popularity of shit like QC, Endtown, and LiCD

>>81929527
OFFICIAL BREEDING TIER LIST:

REPOPULATION TIER
Jade

ISLAMIC FAMILY TIER
Jane
Aradia
Feferi

WHOLESOME AMERICAN FAMILY TIER
Roxy
Nepeta
Terezi

MISCARRIAGE TIER
Rose
Vriska

BARREN AS THE VOID TIER
Kanaya

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>>81929591
I meant all the fights in Collide.

Also a lot of bullshit pulled out of nowhere really quickly, like "okay Davesprite is still alive, oh he just combined with Nepsprite, okay that's a thing now"

>>81929591
I'm pretty sure it's stated somewhere he can only be killed through glitches in spacetime.

It's why slick brought the felt even if they amounted to nothing.

>>81929656
Would you consider a singularity a glitch in spacetime? And if so go back to sleep, Einstein.

>>81929647
>Also a lot of bullshit pulled out of nowhere really quickly

all the sprite stuff in act six, basically

>>81929656
and did they utilize any of these?

even calliope had to resort to a black hole consuming the green sun

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Is his and Hussie's writing style similar? Never read the books but I have this feeling they are pretty close as far as overly convoluted plots and having over nine million characters go.

>On one wall hangs a picture of a fella who sure knows how to have a laugh, a man after your own heart. You always thought he looked a lot like Michael Cera. But your DAD swears on the many HALLOWED TOMBS of Egypt that it is not.
>HALLOWED TOMBS of Egypt
Huh

>>81929599
Kinder doesn't mean kind, mind you. But you'll be a whole lot better off if you have a modest schedule and keep it.

>>81929689
>>81929690
I wasn't implying LE was beaten, I like to think he killed everyone and wins, just saying what was stated in the comic.

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>>81929643
>Kanaya
>barren

>>81929760
kanaya's womb was sploded

>>81929731
If the words Hussie uses are specifically "glitch in spacetime" that might refer specifically to black holes. And based on how Problem Sleuth ended, I'm leaning more and more towards that being the intended interpretation of Act 7.

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>>81929464
>good things you can learn
-consistent updates allows fans to keep talking about your comic
-having a shit ton of characters from all over can give fans something to attach too
-not explaining your lore right away gives fans reason to talk about your comic and theorize

>mistakes you can learn from
-you can only go so far insulting your audience before they stop thinking it's funny and start leaving
-never forget your first fans, as they were the first ones to get into your work, the ones who shared it, and the ones who will stay the longest until you fuck with them to much by pandering to new fans, because new fans treat your work like a passing fancy and are fickle
-if your work offended someone unintentionally don't change it, as it looks even worse on your part
-don't tell your reader exactly how a battle is going to go down before it happens
-don't end your comic with loose ends in your lore, every mystery is another story for you, it's in YOUR best interest to explain everything eventually
-remember to have focus on your main characters first, it's okay to give supporting characters an arc, but remember who's the main character
-don't introduce the main character of your comic at the 5th Act

>>81929790
[citation needed]

>>81929871
speedreadanon really went out with a bang

Looks like the kids all woke up. Time to go to sleep.

where the fuck are the karkuck fics?

I want Jade to cuck Karkat from his boyfriend Dave
I want Dave to cheat on Karkat by banging Jade and Jane at the same time
I want Terezi to tell Karkat that she doesn't want to be in any relationship until Vriska comes back
I want Rose to cuck Karkat by hanging around Kanaya all the time and not allowing him to interact with her
I want John asking Karkat for romance advice while he is grubsitting and close to off himself

>>81924742
KIDS AND FUN

>>81929892
then again I guess it's possible kanaya never had a womb to splode.

troll biology amirite

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>>81929892
It was Eridan

>>81929925
>>81930010
pretty sure we literally know how trolls reproduce, thanks to THE COMIC

>>81929706
Nah. They don't have the same writing style and their plots are very different too. I don't think GRRM just drops possible ways to advance the story as he goes so that he has plenty of things to choose from in the future.

>>81930047
What if slurry seed comes from the same place as it would on a human?

>>81930047
the 'genetic' material that comes from female trolls probably comes from a womb

eri did nothin wwrong

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>>81929826

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>>81922346
>what should have happened
the series should have ended on a cliffhanger at the end of Act 5 with the Scratch and never got another update, and everyone would have lamented how it never got finished right when it was "getting amazing".

>>81930104
then the canon MASSIVE DICK SHADOW ( http://mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=010014 ) would negate >>81930125

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>>81929212
>Only because the Beta kids had become annoying at that point.
are you fucking serious

>>81930197
my god

>>81930067
This.
While both works get very complicated, GRRM's way of dealing with it is a whole lot more natural and satisfying ( see, for example, the Meereenese knot.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Meereenese_knot

While GRRM takes his sweet time writing his books,most plot-lines do get a normal, satisfying conclusion. Which is why D&D (of GoT) are the hacks of asoiaf.

>>81929826
>-don't tell your reader exactly how a battle is going to go down before it happens
for some reason i'm immediately reminded of Sonichu's "Next issue I get out of the time void!"

>>81927133
>he enjoyed posting & mocking people in the awful webcomics thread on SA

Until they started posting & mocking him.

>>81926417
A quick offscreen death caused purely by her hubris would have been GOAT. Something that makes sense and is kind of ironic, preferably. And then nobody talking about her for the rest of the comic. She can get a Can Town memorial for her trouble.

>>81927907
Man, the moral implications of Homestuck's universe and themes are really fucking scary when you think about it for more than two seconds.
>The destruction of whole civilizations for some shitty kids to play a game, suffer, and make another universe for more civilization to turn to ashes and suffer.
>The unnatural murder of two universes.
>Predestination, and how your mindset is enough to cause you to retroactively create your problems in the first place (e.g. Bec Noir)
>Doomed timelines in general.
>Individuals being replaceable and experience not mattering because you're part of an imaginary greater self.
>Other versions of you taking your place you because they did something that advanced reality's inscrutable agenda and you didn't.
>Loss of individuality due to prototyping/cherub predomination.
>Captchalogued consorts, Casey being stuck in John's sylladex for eternity after Typheus kills him
>Powers that could save everyone and everything, but never will because a kid is scared of accidentally undoing existence.
>A universe in which good people are punished and bad people are rewarded just for 'making things happen'
Horrorterrors are just a bunch of big cuddly squids next to these thoughts.

Characters who deserve the sweet embrace of death:

I stopped it around A6I3
Should I read the rest of it or should i coun't my blessings ?

>>81930197
>Canon
That's guest art
If we take these depictions as canon, then Jane gained a lot of weight before Vriskagram and lost it almost immediately after.
Same for the trolls getting ears.

>>81930252
God damn it, that's what I thought about as well.
Are you me?

On a related note, what would it be like if CWC had discovered Homestuck when he was in his comic-making prime?

adorb rorb lalorb

>>81930277
>Echidna telling Kanaya to protect Karkat and raise another asshole into becoming an evil dictator
>so that kids who suffer from his rule want to play sburb again and create a new universe
>and then have the next edgy kid become leader of a new civilization

>>81925698
Well, the Trolls got through SGRUB on their own without outside help or stuff like that. They just had their Reward taken away at the very last second.

Everything right up to and including Cascade was fine.

The fail started with the three-year timeskip in which the characters got zero development. This turned all their core characters on their heads, made them into lazy stupid jagoffs.

>>81930302
You have the worst part of the comic ahead of you.
I'd say go for it. Might as well.

>>81930360
>sonichu gets stuck in the CWC's adult chronicles game

>>81930386
>without outside help or stuff like that
RTFC

>>81930365
Karkat getting cucked by everyone and only having grub toddlers to talk with

>>81930302
You have about 3000 pages to get through, some of which are decent. Skip through most of the bullshit and read the Caliborn sections. You'll be done in a day at most.

>>81929464
Making your characters like stupid nerdy shit is a good way to make them relatable. Give them distinct, but subtle speech mannerisms, they'll be more memorable.
They need clear flaws and things to work towards. But don't get them what they want - give them (or make them aware of) what they need.
Also, learn from Hussie's mistakes: background characters can become relevant, protagonists should not disappear into the shadows.

>>81930386
Minus their entire precursor civilization being rebooted for the sake of them completing the game, and being guided by an omniscient fucking god. Caliborn takes the cake in terms of perseverance and being justly rewarded.

Where did the white frog come from?

>>81930219
I remember when Act 6 was coming up thinking very distinctly that it would be nice to start a side story with fresh characters not waist deep in pointless drama the way late Act 5 was. It was similar to the sense of relief when you got out of Act 5.1 and into Act 5.2 and finally saw a non-troll character again.

Of course, then Act 6 came out and almost all the Alpha kids started out worse than the worst of the Act 5 Beta kids. So much for that.