Can we talk about this? I don't read Superman much but it

>>81412656
storytime? never got the chance to read it.

I really like re-reading this even if the art is a little wonky sometimes

>>81412656
I've always been fond of a Superman being part of the Justice League more than a solo hero, would I like this?

>>81413213
Everybody loves ASS

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>>81412656
>Can we talk about this?

Yes.

>I don't read Superman much but it was brilliant in how many new concepts they threw right at you, forcing you to run to keep up (you can of course, it's all there) and redefining the character.

A lot of the concepts are actually old forgotten stuff from the 50's Superman stories that are out of vogue. Morrison tapped a similar well for his Batman. There's a huge portion of the comic history of Superman and others that goes unread because it's esoteric and uncollected.

All Star actually has an even more elaborate backstory, Morrison had held onto these ideas since 1999 when he and Mark Millar, Mark Waid, and another guy pitched "Superman 2000" to DC. They had ideas for hundreds of issues and wanted to revamp the character for a decade.

>This is the Superman I want to see on film - high concept with Superman intrinsically heroic.

We'd be lucky to get a decent Jonathan Kent.

The best thing to happen to Superman at this point is for ASS Superman or one like him to get his own animated series with a rock solid creative team going ham on every aspect involved because it's a labor of love.

>>81413263
ASS is a beautiful thing, anon.

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>>81413384
>They had ideas for hundreds of issues and wanted to revamp the character for a decade.
>had
Are you serious? Why didn't they revamp him?

>>81413146
Quietly is a great storyteller, but I'm not huge on his faces + bodies.
>>81413213
Yeah, check it out if you're interested.
>>81413384
So is it fair to say the majority of readers when it came out knew a similar amount as me? I did worry if I was missing out on something.

>>81412656
>redefining the character

Nigger, Grant Morrison was just recycling Silver Age ideas and stories.

>>81414274
Cracker, in doing so Morrison was reminding current readers of who Superman was.

>>81414324
Spic, most of those ideas were ignored anyway.

>>81413892
Most of them ended up happening anyway in later projects, ASS, Morrison's Action Comics, Birthright, Red Son, Millar's Superman TAS, Action Comics and Adventures of Superman runs and various one-shots of his.

>>81413892

you can read their original pitch here: https://sites.google.com/a/deepspacetransmissions.com/site/Resources/superman-2000-proposal

>>81414354
Pajeet, ok

>>81414471

>Further to this, it’s important to keep in mind the Superman/Christ parallels WITHOUT being obvious and heavy-handed about them. Superman has to think differently from us, and when we see into his head, we should be shocked by the clarity and simplicity of his brilliance and compassion. This is a god sent to Earth not to suffer and die but to live and inspire and change the face of the galaxy by his deeds and reputation. This is the man who will take time out from stopping Mongul’s plan to crash Alpha Centauri into our sunsystem just to save a drowning dog or dry the tears of a child.

>We also see Superman as the ultimate communicator--invulnerable to pain, he needs none of the physical defensive postures we take for granted and so would be incredibly relaxed and open--the big smile, the instant handshake, the conviction that everyone he meets is to be regarded as a friend until he proves otherwise. Superman should be indefatigable and trustworthy. No more "Bad Superman" or "Crazy Superman" stories for a while.

Fuck. That's the movie Superman I want to see

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Easily one of my two all time fav superman stories.

the other is pictured.

>>81413384
>the context of this panel is that Superboy took Ma and Pa on a time travel vacation to see pirates bury treasure. And then they eat some extinct poison fruit that Superboy helplessly can't find a cure for.
>this panel still hits me
love silver-age Superman

>>81414550
I guess the movies were due for a Superman subversion phase, I just wish it was done more competently.

Quitely is the GOAT. The prison issue with Lex has so so so much subtle movements and gestures that make it look like the book is literally moving as you read a long. I get not liking his faces, but it's so fucking ridiculous that people call him a bad artist.

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>>81414936
Man is easily my fav comic book artist of this age. Between this, we3, Pax americana, and Jupiter's Legacy every time he is doing a book...I get it no questions asked. He could pencil a fucking gambit book and i'd by it. and fuck gambit.

The attention to detail that guy puts into every image as well as how images come together on a page as a whole amazing.

Did Morrison ever comment of the prison scene to confirm Superman just let all those prisons die when Parasite ran through them after Superman used freeze breath on them?

>>81415132
I imagine in the whimsical world of ASS they woulda just thawed out and been fine.

>>81414936
That's a fair point, I just don't care for the way he draws people sometimes; they look like mashed up meatloaf or something.

>>81414550
Morrison would deepthroat Superman if he ever met him, huh?

>>81415219
>whimsical
What was whimsical about it?

>>81415291
>One final little note, which has nothing to do with the fact that Grant wrote "Animal Man" and Millar’s a veggie, but is a matter for pure logic. Clark eats bouef bourginon? The man with a code against killing eats murdered animals? Regardless of his farm upbringing, can we justify a Superman this aware and attuned to life in all its forms being a carnivore? Though there’s no need to make a direct, on-stage issue of it, file this thought away; his diet would be beans, pulses and windfall, if anything, and his body would be capable of extracting maximum energy from these simple foods if not solely from the sun’s rays.
He would

>>81413146
Funnily enough the art's the only thing I like about this book

>>81412656

Has anyone ever read "Superman and Philosophy?" It's pretty good and made me realize Superman wasn't just Boring Invincible Man.

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>>81414550
>>81415322
All this we could have had.
All this we should have had.

>>81415322
He could just eat meat when it's served to him (like his mom's Bourguignon) but not seek it out, but I'm not sure making him an outright vegan is necessary. It already felt a bit forced in Animal Man, and it made more sense for him.

>>81414216
>So is it fair to say the majority of readers when it came out knew a similar amount as me? I did worry if I was missing out on something.

The oldguard of comics is ageing out and dying off. /co/ likes to complain about "wiki warriors," but the reality is finding old comics is laborious and time consuming.

Marvel's Unlimited app is the most affordable way to read old comics short of piracy.

DC has no equivalent. For years, finding the Mike Grell run of Green Arrow was all but impossible for most people. Trying to find the golden age DC comics legitimately is not gonna happen.

So that's where superhero comics exists these days, we're all pretend archaeologists reading cliff notes and claiming to have read a lot more books than we really have.

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>>81414936
>Quitely is the GOAT. The prison issue with Lex has so so so much subtle movements and gestures that make it look like the book is literally moving as you read a long. I get not liking his faces, but it's so fucking ridiculous that people call him a bad artist.

Somebody pointed out once that the panels of grey walls of the prison issue actually parallel a famous painting or something?

It matched up clearly, but now for the life of me I can't remember what painting it was.

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>>81414550

>this will never happen in a movie

why bother living

>>81415297
>What was whimsical about it?

Lizard monsters from underground invading Metropolis.

Superman challenging Atlas and Samson in an arm wrestling contest for Lois Lane's affection.

Superman saving a suicidal young woman

The bad guys cracking the moon.

Zibarro and pretty much all of the Bizaro world.

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A more physical thing but I love the Superman and Clark Kent designs. The "too big for his environment" Clark and the refined classic look for the Superman outfit, with the red undies extended into short trunks, the gold crest on the cape, all of it.

>>81415641
I see, I didn't interpret any of that as whimsical, especially the part I was initially asking about in the prison but that's cool you did.

High concept Superman is much, much better than gritty real world Superman.

>>81414688
Kinda liked '90s Alt Universe Supes.

>>81413026
honestly worth picking up as a trade if you can anon. nice one to have in your colletion. youre in for a treat

>>81415297
The very nature of the world. For all its danger and the sense of mortality its kind of a silver age fairy tale style universe. With outer space crazy scientists in rainbow coats doing ludicrous experiments, the jimmy olsen getting his job for a day, the time traveling samson and atlas having a contest with superman. That lizard attacking wasn't even a danger. it was a fun little adventure opportunity for lois with her one day superman formula. Then later 'SUDDENLY ANCIENT MUMMY APPEARS FOR NECKLACE'.
The old school giant cube bizarro world with superman trying to explain thing to the bizarro people in reverse with reverse bizarro 'zibarro' at his side.

It's playful and childlike in its nature despite being very adult in its themes. So it just doesn't feel like the world where getting frozen by supermans breath would kill you so much as leave you really chilly when you thawed out.

>>81415454
He's got a taste for Hot Dogs. Does it benefit him metabolically. no. Doesn't mean he doesn't enjoy a good Ballpark.

>>8141507
haha fuck gambit

i feel the same way. i think its the ridiculous detail that i love about it too. as if frank puts a stupid amount of thought into the panels. its exactly the opposite as sayjohn romita jr who i hate with a passion.

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this will be my wallpaper until I get BvS out of my head

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>YFW you read it a SECOND time

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/features/superman-inside-story-director-richard-879894

Once we had a man who understood.

And then he was told "you are no longer needed."

But now is when we need him the most.

Can you save him, one last time?

>>81415819
thanks, anon.

>>81414471
I love his Luthor.
Is Lex Luthor: Man of Steel a good read?

>>81415785
Yeah you really don't need to make Superman too good for hot dogs, that seems like a bad idea.

>>81415819
love that page. and i aint the only one. reminds me of this quote in an article which despite its sappiness gets me every time.

"I have struggled with depression ever since I was ten years old. It had crippled me emotionally. I was 27 years old, no college degree, no job, and no will to live. I decided to kill myself after Christmas.

And then my sister’s boyfriend loaned me these comics. Superman is dying of radiation poisoning and is trying to complete all of his tasks before he dies, but he still takes the time to save a young girl who is about to jump off a building.

I cried for hours after reading this. I identified with that girl so much, ans I could almost hear Superman telling me that I’m stronger than I think.

Now, every time my depression starts to rear its ugly head, I just repeat his words and imagine him hugging me when I’m standing on the edge. It works better than any medication or therapy I’ve ever had.

Now I’m in college and at the top of my class. I have friends. I have a life. And I don’t care that he’s a fictional comic book character. He still saved me."

>>81415761
Perhaps because it did the danger and impeding doom and mortality for Superman so well I didn't find the story whimsical. Like this page for example >>81415652
has mini flying doctors that can cure cancer and all I felt was desperation for Superman. It's an very fantastical story sure but so is the character in and of himself. Whimsical imo is too close to child like amusement and dumb. That wasn't ASS to me.

>>81412656

>this is the Superman I want to see on film

Sure, but people would absolutely hate it. Superman going stronger than Silver Age, the amount of fantastical and obscure elements that would leave plebs saying "what?" (if people had trouble with 3 dream sequences in BvS, this would kill the plebs), the open ending with the "Superman 2 project", the pistol battle with Lex Luthor, Lois Lane with powers, beings from other dimensions / galaxies / systems, metastory about a superhero being created for a comic in a pocket universe etc.

It's an amazing story, but the definition of a story that can't be translated to movie format. The animated movie was terrible, but beyond that, it's extremely cartoony, it wouldn't work with real actors.

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>>81415958

I also got this

>>81416047
>The animated movie was terrible
That's because Bruce Timm can't into Superman.

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>>81416096

yeah but you can't say Christopher Drake isn't amazing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EphFQelYhp8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ4GbcuBvUQ

Clark chilling listening to this. Something isn't it?

>>81415958
Anyone got that pic of people queuing up to hug Supes?

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>>81416243

Yes. Yes I do

>>81416047
The problem with dream sequences isn't that they're too out there, it's that they're shit storytelling.

But yeah, ASS is too out there and referential to work on casuals.

>>81416348
thx

>>81415679
I agree 100%. His design is the definition of perfection.

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>>81415819

>>81415892
>And then he was told "you are no longer needed."
I can't read this article right now but I hope they explain why Donner got fired after Superman I after it turned out to be a hit. Like, wtf type sense does that remotely make. Also, it's going to hurt like hell when Donner dies like Robin Williams and Uncle Phil.

>>81416348
>me on the right

>>81415958

I've been there. The night I was ready to...go, I was overcome with a kind of a daydream where I was about to jump off a tall building and Spider-Man showed up and had a long conversation with me about why it wasn't worth it.

I flushed a bottle of pills down the toilet and started the next day with a smile.

>>81412656
>new concepts
>redefining the character

It's literally just Silver Age Superman told in a modern style. Alan Moore called it "a cover album".

>>81415892
>>81416549

He was a shit director, his comics are terrible, Superman 1 is corny and has Superman show up with powers never established, like reversing time. The only bad part about him being kicked out of the franchise is that Richard Lester was even worse than him.

I think people can't separate liking Christopher Reeve and liking the movie. I bet most don't actually like the movie, just Reeve. The actual plot is non-existant.

>real estate Lex Luthor

>>81416573

>That dude so nervous about what to say or how to go about it.
>Superman just laughs it off. Strikes up a conversation about the logo on his hat and just as soon as he calms down enough to say something, Supes already has him in friendly embrace. And simply tells him "you're going to be fine"

>>81416652
Moore's opinions on Morrison's work are worthless based on his track record of attempting to smear Morrison with completely false claims (ie Moore claimed they brought Morrison to him to get writing tips before Morrison had any published work, but Morrison was published over a year before Moore was and worked for the big two before Moore did as well)

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>>81416752

Moore would probably like it better if people raped each other and did drugs

>>81415892
The irony of Donnerfaggotry to me is that his best films are about edgy murder cops who quip wildly

>>81416730
Superman writer detected.

>>81415524
>DC has no equivalent. For years, finding the Mike Grell run of Green Arrow was all but impossible for most people.

I still can't find O'Neill's Question

>>81415958
>>81416090
>>81416348

I've never been THAT huge of a Supes fan but the thought of him doing everything he can to stop me from killing myself has genuinely kept me from doing it more than once.

>>81412656

It's pretty great, yes. My only complaint is that I don't like the art style, but of course I realize that's purely a matter of taste.

>>81416886
What do you dislike besides the faces and figures?

>>81416667
Yeah I never liked those movies as a kid, pretty sure they're the reason I didn't like Supes before reading some comics with him.

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>>81416810

>>81416667
>has Superman show up with powers never established, like reversing time.
he could do that in the comics, but used it to travel far in the past or future. Never for moral grey area shit like saving Lois from dying.

Unrelated but does anyone have that scene where Superman high fives Power girl after helping her with her powers?

And anyone remember that issue number from Batman Beyond where Superman goes into the Phantom Zone and they're all talking shit? Fucking scrapped HDD.

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What I want to do, and maybe it's been done is a story set after Superman saves a jumper. At first he's feeling okay but then he gets back into his old rut. He had his moment with Superman but it's passed and he's back to facing his empty go nowhere life. And so he finds himself back on the ledge, and just as he's about to jump he feels a hand on his shoulder.

It's Superman.

"Why?" the man would ask.

"I always check up on the people I save" the man of steel says back with a warm smile.

"No, why did you stop me again? My life's a wreck. I have no one. Im alone and no one will care if Im gone"

"That's not true. Not in the slightest"

"How can you say that. You can't be sure of that"

"Yes I can. Because Im the one who cares, so why don't you sit down, tell me your name and we can talk."

>>81417158
There's something like that with Mr. Fantastic of all people. He sees a jumper and stretches up and chats with him. Turns out he's going through a ton of shit and he's been diagnosed with a terminal illness.

Reed ends up promising to come when he's about to die so he won't die alone, which was the guys major fear. Reeds gets the call during some really important meeting, I think one of the Illuminati ones, and tells them something more important has come up and goes and sits with this guy as he dies.

I have no idea what run or issue it's from but I remember someone posting it.

Superman is just an antiquated character. They should do away with him forever.

>>81417346

Go to hell, Zack Snyder.

>>81417346
Fuck off Batman.

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>>81417316
I feel Fantastic Four is so rarely written well. But when it is it's fucking great. It is a comic that honestly never gets the respect or care it deserves.

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>>81417462

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>>81417481

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>>81415819
>>81415958

Seriously I've also suffered from depression for years (woe is me posting my sob story on 4chan), but I've never been able to explain to my friends and normies why the Snyder Superman movies bother me so much.

Maybe it's because I'm hyper-sensitive to coming off as a "not muh comics" nerd nitpicker stereotype. I don't mind adaptations that change aspects of characters. Seriously, I don't. But these recent movies just completely trample all over Superman and what he represents, at least to me.

Some of us read comic books for escapism, for wish fulfillment, etc.

Sometimes I just wish there was a Superman out there. Someone with "ultimate power" who will ALWAYS do the right thing. Someone who's so far above us yet never judges us. Someone who you can always count on. Someone who represents all the best traits of being not just an American, but a human being. Even though he is technically neither. Someone who makes you strive to better yourself and share his ideals solely by his existence.

I don't know when I became such a hopeless Superfag. Used to love Batman growing up, still do to a degree. I guess the older I get, the more I appreciate Superman and what he stands for, and the more I wish we had one.

>>81417346

Snyder go home

>>81417494
>>81417481
>>81417462

you know the X-men could probably learn at thing or two

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>>81417497
>Sometimes I just wish there was a Superman out there. Someone with "ultimate power" who will ALWAYS do the right thing

There can be a Superman, Anon. There can be.

It's you

Be Superman

>>81417481
That's kind of clever actually.

>>81417551
I don't know how well that would hold up with the x-men when a few of them get murdered by humans who fear and hate them
THEY FEAR AND HATE THEM MAN!

Which run was it with Lex disecting Supes as being the ultimate inhibitor on humanity and being a supreme excuse for everyone to stop trying?

This thread makes me wish to start reading superman.
So far I've only read
>All-Star Superman
>Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?
>For the Man Who Has Everything
>Red Son
>Last Son of Earth
>The Dark Side
But I want to get into the character's heart and soul.
Any recs?

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>>81417615

>Bibbo gonna Bibbo

kek

>>81417671

That's cuz their assholes.

Even the good guys will shoot their mouths off about how better they think they are then humans and how they're gonna replace them as the dominant species. At some point they got the same ideology as they people they're supposed to be fighting

>>81417728
Maggins novels, Samuel Hawkins short essays, Cary Bates comics.

>>81412656
Morrison is a big fan of sort of the infallibly heroic Silver Age heroes. You can really see it in Flex Mentallo as well

>>81417728

Up, Up and Away doesn't get near the credit it deserves

>>81417728
I'm not the biggest superman fan. but one i got recommended that ive loved was starting with post crisis superman.
Man of steel volume 1 written by john byrne.

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>>81417728

What's So Funny About Truth, Justice, and the American Way? by Joe Kelly

It's my favorite Superman story of all time.

>>81412656
What is "this"?

>>81417826
Swamp Thing by Alan Moore

This might be a super long shot but I'm looking for someone to take over my Superman tumblr because I no longer have time to update it even semi regularly. If anyone is even remotely interested please let me know. I still have some followers jumping on board everyday. Synder/Goyer stuff isn't allowed unfortunately.

>>81417820
What's So Funny is one of the best Supes runs, it reads like an excerpt from JJBA at parts and uses Supes' OP bullshit in the best way.

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Shame on you all for ignoring best Superman

>>81417929
If IG was made today he'd say Iron Man and you know it

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>>81417971
>his personality
>related to Iron Man in any way

>>81418029
That's not even remotely what was being implied you shut-in

>>81412656

Except Morrison doesn't get Superman at all

>>81418111
Meme contraian response

>>81418129

Thanks for the response, here's one for you.

>>81413892
At DC (and Marvel, for that matter), creators aren't allowed to create whatever they want to create.

Authors can only write what their editor gives them permission to write, and artists can only draw what their editor gives them permission to draw.

They didn't get permission for this.

>>81418222
>At DC (and Marvel, for that matter), creators aren't allowed to create whatever they want to create unless they can sell comics by name recognition alone
Ftfy

>>81417773
>>81417785
>>81417809
Thanks. I'll check them.
>>81417820
Thanks, I've been searching for this one since MoS came out.

>>81418267
There is never a guarantee that DC/Marvel won't fuck with a big fish whenever any bigger fish comes along .

For example, /co/ is hyped for Grant Morrison's Wonder Woman, but don't forget that he got that project by completely fucking over Greg Rucka (someone who was once guaranteed sales based on name recognition alone).

If someone is guaranteed sales, and they don't want the editorial department to fuck with them, then they take their ideas to Image.

>>81418291

It's in Action Comics 775.

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>>81416481
>CRACKED
I'M GONNA CRACK YOUR HEAD ANON

>>81417915
>runs
It's a double sized single issue story

>>81418073
>movie set in the 1950s or 60s
>hurrr deyd uze Iron Man because he's popular or something even more retarded

>>81415407
I'd be interested in that. Probably need to read more Superman first.

>>81413026
If you do a desu search, this has been story timed recently, so the images will still show up.

>>81413384
>A lot of the concepts are actually old forgotten stuff from the 50's Superman stories that are out of vogue.
I wouldn't quite put it as "old" and "forgotten" - they obviously resonate the way Easter Eggs do for the kind of people who can name all the LoSH versions and who remember when Plas was in the JL, etc., etc.

I'm also not sure that good story concepts are ever out of vogue. As many have stated, in various ways, there are really no new stories - and haven't been for eons, just different ways of telling them.

>>81412656
>This is the Superman I want to see on film
There is a BluRay of this, I am not fond of the adaptation, for one thing, they changed (to me) a key element of the story in changing the source of the genetic material journal and eliminated elements because of time. Bizarro's entire section and large portions of other portraits are, in some respects, even mischaracterized because of how they were trimmed (which I fully understand was a cost-issue, but given the source material and interest in it, I think they should have at least gone for an extended version on disc).

I'm also not fond of the voice casting for Clark or for Lois.

>>81414936
I fully get people not being fond of how he drew somethings. I am not fond of Lois in this, for example, but can't really say it's an issue with the drawing of her face, it's just simply not how I ever picture her (and I'm fairly open to any number of images, from current incarnation, to Jurgen's Lois and Clark, to Timms/DCAU or 1990s via Mahnke, Ferry or Ed McGuinness).

>>81415132
They've had Superman freeze say Lois and use it to catch bad guys without indicating that the temporary use of this would actual kill them. Yes, as I type that, I understand - but as with anything dealing with a flying man, x-ray (and other vision) powers, we're talking comic book science here, just relax.

>>81415322
>>81415454
Waid made him a vegan in Birthright. But yes, Busiak, Johns, a whole bunch of other folks had him eating hot dogs.

I always assumed "bouef bourginon" (is that even spelled correctly?) was just code between Clark and Lois that was very specific (and therefore helpful to one another) BECAUSE it was so unlikely to come up in their real lives. When I think of Martha's cooking, I imagine generic mid-western/farm fare but MAINLY, pies.

>>81416983
Poor MoS supes. He got the worst and stupidest Pa Kent in the multiverse.

>>81415407
>>81418982

It's readable enough. A bit of it is more skimable - as with all these (X-Men, Batman), they try to hard too make some of the standard University philosophy material fit canon and it doesn't always quite mesh as well as some of the chapters/essays do.

I have an epub or a PDF I can upload if folks want it?

>>81416000
That actual page you point to is another one of Morrison's reinventions of Silver Age Superman:
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Superman_Vol_1_125

>>81415904
>Lex Luthor: Man of Steel
No, not really. I think the Luthor in Black Ring is far more interesting and the trades themselves make it a more readable story (although I call BS on his ability to have been that many steps ahead, including as for his role in the Doomday part of this arc).

>>81419231

You got the Spider-Man one by any chance?

>>81417728
Kingdom come, its getting storytimed right now btw

>>81419231
>I have an epub or a PDF I can upload if folks want it?

Puhleese

>>81413892
I've heard that they didn't want to put big names on Superman and Batman.

>>81417316
I'd like to read this

>>81422336
Wish I knew the issue.

>>81416786
Who's the one between Moore and Ellis?

>>81423261
Gaiman.

>>81416786
Is that Garth Ennis?