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I bought pic related a few months ago, and it's only partly

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Thread replies: 81
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I bought pic related a few months ago, and it's only partly false advertising; there's some good stuff in there, but man oh man are there some weird choices.
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Everybody get mad at this shit.
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>>77802750
I just think it's embarrassing to have a list of best comics and include Akira in it. What's wrong, not enough good comics out there? you hate to resort to manga?
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Sure, Alias is alpha and omega of comic books.
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>>77802750
most of these are pretty good
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>>77802798
manga are comics tho
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>>77802750
This is actually not a bad list, except Civil War is on there for some ungodly reason

It's a good mix too, with the giant Batman I thought it was going to be all capeshit with Maus and Persepolis tacked on for appearances.

you can still separate it into "capeshit" and "everything else" though, and that makes me sad
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>>77802854
No
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>>77802880
artwork shaped into panels with words on them that tell a story, with action and movement

yeah manga are comics, at least in form
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Does it include Osamu Tezuka's Phoenix? Because if not it's a shitty list.
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>>77802798
>limiting yourself to comics only produced in North America

I hope you die in your sleep, your body is left undiscovered for weeks and no one attends your funeral.
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>>77802835
can't tell if this is sarcasm, because it really kind of is. It's certainly the best thing Marvel has ever published.
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>>77802913
I'm not limiting shit, anon. I'm just saying, if I were to look up a list of 100 best manga I wouldn't find a comic in it.
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1001 Comics You Must Read Before You Die is probably a much better option

Even if the cover of the book does feature The Ultimates
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>>77802922
Nice try, bendis.
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>>77802750
>>77802775
I want to believe that publishers paid for their books to appear on this list as some sort of advertising, but really, how many people are actually going to buy this?
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>>77802980
There is a Judge Dredd one.
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>>77802901
Manga =/= comics

quit being retarded
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>>77802963
>manga isn't comics

I hope for your sake that you're just memeing.
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>>77802963
Comics is a general term. Manga outside of Japan isn't.
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>>77802996
Meant to quote >>77802971
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>>77802963
>>77803009
manga has similar form
where manga differs is in content i.e. types of stories. but even now we have manga that tells superhero stories. get fucked
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>>77803016
Not heping your cause posting shit like that
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>>77803009
Manga is a term used to describe comics from Japan, it is not an entirely different medium
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>>77802775
>Year of the Bastard
GOAT Transmet arc

I couldnt give less of a shit about everything else. I'm just happy they chose the best arc for Transmet. Do you have scans of those pages?
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>>77803049
>where manga differs is in content i.e. types of stories

Try to be more subtle guys.
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>>77802798
>>77802854
I have no objection to manga being on the list per se. After all, "manga" is just the Japanese word for "comics"... That said, I'm kinda pissed off that they included Akira, but there's NO Osamu Tezuka on the list. Phoenix, Astro Boy, Black Jack, Adolf, Buddha - if you're gonna insert weeb stuff, at least include the man who put manga on the map!
>>77802984
I bought my copy at a WM Smith branch in a railway station, next to one-off magazines like Doctor Who: The 80's and Total Film: Best Superhero Movies. If I had to guess, there'd usually be a few impulse purchases (not that many - the damn thing costs £9.99)
>>77803093
Here ya go.
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The list isn't even that terrible if you keep in mind that the book's written for an US audience and was probably paid for by Diamond.
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>>77803108
form =/= content. form is like structural and template similarities.
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>>77803174
Death of Superman is probably the worst thing on the list, unless it's meant to be read and analyzed as the comic that nearly killed the industry
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>>77803108
You literally are incapable of understanding that graphic art/comics is the umbrella and manga/western comics are part of the same medium like anime and cartoons are, to the point where you think anyone who disagrees with you is trolling. Sad
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>>77803158
i hate that these entries are so short
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>>77803206
I'm not arguing that at all. I'm arguing that you are fucking retarded if you think there is a difference between comics and manga on the types of stories that can be and are told. Any story you could tell in a North American produced comic could be done in manga and vice verse. You need to look beyond cape shit and shounen.
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This stuff is always dumb and better to facilitate discussion than be any authority

I expected it to be more modern biased tbhfam
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>>77803268
>it to be more modern biased tbhfam
That was the problem when DC put out their own list of their best comics. Shockingly everything listed was collected and in print, also Identity Crisis was ranked high
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>>77802775

>Miller, Bendis, and Waid Devil all make it

Daredevil is the best
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>>77803305

That's always a problem with ranking shit like this

where the hell's American Splendor
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>>77802775
>Civil War
Hahaha no.

>All-New Spider-Man
Is this Miles, or Ultimate Spider-Man as a whole? If it's the latter, that's fine.

>Fun Home
I feel like I know what this is but it's not coming to me.

>Astonishing X-Men: Gifted
I always hated Whedon's run, but I know I'm in the minority there.

>Secret Six
Nice.

>Astro City
Also nice.

>Young Avengers
Christ.

A lot of it I haven't read but it's not a bad list. It has Nextwave on it, that's a lot of points right there.
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>>77803305
I have that DC recommended graphic novels thing in my closet. It isn't trying to hide at all what it is. It was a free promotional catalog of their available books.
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>>77803062
>calling scott pilgrim a manga
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>>77802871
Yeah, there seems to be a bit of "this has/will get a movie, so let's put it on the list".

It is pretty sad.
>>77803174
Sorry mate, this book is as British as soogy chips and an encroaching surveillance state.
>>77803200
>Death of Superman is probably the worst thing on the list
Did you not see Rat Queens?
>>77803212
If they had longer descriptions, they'd probably have to double the page count. I think the description length is about right for a whistle-stop tour of good comics
>>77803268
>I expected it to be more modern biased
I did a quick look - 51 of these comics were published in the last 15 years.
>>77803349
Again, they seem to have kinda missed the point. They have Fun Home and Persepolis, but no Harvey Pekar. They have Tintin and Blacksad, but no Asterix. It's so bloody frustrating.
>>77803367
I'm pretty sure it's Miles and I'm 85% convinced they only included it because it has a black protagonist
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>>77802775
>20 Batman: A Death in teh Family

The first half is pretty good, but is only remembered because of the huge effect it had on the Bat-universe. The second half gets really retarded really fast
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>>77803458
>Did you not see Rat Queens?
No, my eyes must not be able to register it's existence
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>>77803458
>Rat Queens
I get mad whenever that book is mentioned. I pirated the first issue on curiousity after seeing so many people recommending it. The dialog was so cringe inducing that I barely could finish reading it. I felt embarrassed for having read that. The same thing with Lumberjanes.
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>>77802775
Too much capeshit.
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>>77803553
I checked out Lumberjanes during a storytime, it was just kind of bland an inoffensive. I can completely believe I'm just the wrong audience and some people do love it. However you're right about Rat Queens, it feels like an actual DnD campaign I would've had in my edgy phase in High school and it makes me cringe
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>>77803462
Yeah...that took a weird, unecessarily political tone really quickly.

I thought the story was dramatic enough without the arbitrary introduction of geopolitics.
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>>77803749
The thing that stands out the most from what I read of Lumberjanes was the use of female historical figures as exclamations. It feels so unnatural and it is so transparent in its trying to be as "girl power" as possible that it would be offensive to its own target audience.
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>>77803816
I don't even remember that, then thing that stood out the most to me was how easy every conflict was to resolve. Like the time the camp was attacked by dinosaurs, almost immediately one is taking out by a frying pan and any tension is gone because I know the dinos drop like flies. It just feels like a very safe comic
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I decided to dick about in Paint and make a little list of how many
>>77803462
They straight up admit that the political stuff is retarded, and that it's the weakest entry on their list. They're still wrong, because their weakest entry is fucking Rat Queens
>>77803553
Yeah, I read a storytime of Rat Queens #1 way back when, with the OP trying to pass it off as a successor to IDW's D&D comic. Everything about it was so damn tryhard edgy it just pissed me off that I got suckered in. The reason they give for including it is basically "It has female protagonists!" and it's the whole reason I keep making these threads every couple of months.
>>77803749
>>77803816
The one good thing about that list is that they didn't include Lumberjanes... although I think that might've been more because there were no Lumberjanes trades at the time it was first published.
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>>77803943
You forgot to mark Powers, it has a tv show exclusive to Playstation
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>>77802775
I just rememered I have the 2015 edition lying around. Major changes (apart from swapping titles around for nobloody reason) include:

>Batman removed from cover
>Snowpiercer replaced with Daredevil: The Man Without Fear
>All New Spider-Man replaced with Avengers: Kree-Scrull [sic] War
>The Wonderful Wizard of Oz replaced with Claremont & Miller's Wolverine miniseries
>Waid Daredevil replaced with Spider-Man: Kraven's Last Hunt

Not bad replacements, but it ends making the list a bit more influenced by movies, and the fact that these changes came about after Miller's illness became public knowledge strikes me as a little cynical.
>>77803943
*of how much this list is influenced by cinema/TV. I think we can exclude stuff like Lone Wolf & Cub and Tank Girl, as well as most of the DC stuff that got turned into OAVs, but still...
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>>77804283
>Claremont & Miller's Wolverine miniseries

Which was the basis for the second Wolverine solo movie

Also Man Without Fear gets put on the list in time for the Daredevil tv show where he wears the same all black costume
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>>77804283
Anything that uses the word "geekdom" belongs in a fire.
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>>77804401
Nerd culture, geek chic, and basically everything G4 tried to sell to people is all garbage.
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>>77804270
>>77804329
And there's also Destination Moon (not a bad choice, but not including Explorers on the Moon?), which was turned into a cartoon in 1957 and again in 1991. That makes... what, 34 comics on the list that got turned into movies/TV shows? I mean, one of them's Gemma Bovery, but come ON already...
>>77804401
Oh fuck me, I repressed my memory of that word in the stupid description.
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I can provide other screencaps for comics on the list if people want.
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>>77802775
>picking Seed of Destruction to represent Hellboy

Sure it's the first and it's pretty awesome, but in my opinion Mignola doesn't hit his stride until the second volume.
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>>77803158
>After all, "manga" is just the Japanese word for "comics"
No, it's the Japanese word for "cartoon". As in, ANY drawings.
The Japanese use the ENGLISH word "comic" when talking about Japanese comics.
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>>77804329

Claremont/Miller Wolverine is huge, it deserves the spot. Man Without Fear is maybe the weakest Miller Daredevil thing but it's still great.
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>>77802775
>Only one Japanese comic
>All that cape
>All that DC
>All that Alan Moore, even listing he himself
>All that US
>Multiple entries from the same franchises
>>77804283
>The Wonderful Wizard of Oz replaced with Claremont & Miller's Wolverine miniseries

I'm not trying to imply any of the entries are themselves are bad, but it seems like they're trying to sell this to a specific audience.
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>>77806014
They pick some weird places for people to start reading a book; Alias has the last story arc, Teen Titans has The Judas Contract... it's just weird.
>>77806516
>Only one Japanese comic
>Lone Wolf & Cub
>Akira

But yeah, there's a definite bias towards the Distinguished Competiton.
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>everything
>but especially Rat Queens
who the fuck curated this, what the fuck is an uncanny comics
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Despite the biases, most of the items on the list are pretty solid. If you love comics you owe it to yourself to at least give them all a shot.
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>>77807108
some are solid but not among the greatest of all time
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>>77806501
I'm not saying Wolverine isn't great, just pointing out it got added to the list AFTER the movie that was loosely based on the comic came out
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>>77807416
I can answer some of your yellows...

>Gemma Bovery
Weird British graphic novel that's kiiiiiinda based on Madame Bovary? I've not read the 19th century novel, so I felt dumb as hell while reading the 20th century graphic novel. Got made into a movie, which I haven't seen.
>Finder: Voice
Webcomic that Dark Horse made trades of, back when DH was trying to get some of that sweet, sweet webcomic money. I picked up the trade based purely on it's inclusion in this list and... it's okay. Part of me wondered if I was too dumb to "get" it (I have this feeling with works like Jim Woodring's Frank and most of Peter Milligan's work). Oh, and the protagonist is technically trans. I think. It's kinda glossed over, but then it's an important plot point later on?
>The Wonderful Wizard of Oz
Marvel's adaptation of Baum's classic children's book. Script by Eric Shanower, who is a big Oz fanboy (he made some Oz comics based on his own original stories back in the 80's) and art is by Skottie Young, he of the variant covers. Whilst I love Baum's work, I'm not entirely sure I'd include it here.
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One last bump before I lose consciousness.
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>>77802775
It´s a weird list, it has bretty good comics like contract with god with shit like kick-ass, and i suppose they started with watchmen and batman year one because they might think that those are the goat comics, but in the same list they got titles like safe area gorazde and swamp thing which are miles better, Also they didn´t mention the GOAT comic, The Life and Times of Scrooge McDuck
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>>77809606
Also no Jodorowsky nor Van Hamme
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>>77802775
>Civil War
>ATG
Excuse all of me nigga?
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Just realized they didn't really specify WHAT Miracleman. Common assumption would be Moore I guess.
>Death of Superman
They are having a fucking laugh there
>Nextwave
That's an actual laugh, but it's nowhere near what Ellis would want on a list like this, he probably wouldn't even want it on a list of his work not because he has something against it but because it was clearly done as a joke.
You don't put a joke down as someone's greatest work no matter how amusing it is.

Unless they're a comedian, but even then they'd probably want to be recalled for something more personal.
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>>77807416
>Akira
>Saga of the Swamp Thing
>Killing Joke
>Lucifer
>Marvels
>Gotham Central
>Doom Patrol
>Secret Six
>Transmet
>Astro City
>Nextwave
>Judge Dredd

>"FUCK NO"

I've found him, guys.

The man with the shittiest taste.
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>>77810282

Fuck that, I consider Blazing Saddles, Clue and Airplane some of the greatest films ever even though they're straight-up comedies. It takes just as much skill to set up and sell a joke effectively as it does to set up other emotional punchlines or dramatic pacing. Storytelling also includes the art of telling a joke.
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>>77810850
Those are my opinions and also so are these

>Saga of the Swamp Thing
>Killing Joke
>Gotham Central
>Marvels
>Nextwave
Outright don't like these and disagree for them even being placed

>Akira
>Lucifer
>Doom Patrol
>Secret Six
>Transmet
>Astro City
>Judge Dredd
Good comics but I don't agree that they're at the peak or the specification of a single story arc and saying 'this is one of the best' is too much to agree with when you compare it to Sandman, Sin City and Hellboy which also just picked out individual arcs instead of blanketing the whole series
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>>77810850
Akira actually is a bit bloated to be called all time greatest. It needs heavy trimming, the movie trimmed off too much but it's a good example of how a lot was superfluous. This is coming from a fan.

TKJ while a great, almost defining, character story isn't really all time greatest either. Again a fan.

No comment on Lucifer haven't gotten to it, same with Marvels.

Gotham Centrals another case where it's good but you can't claim it's greatest work.

Doom Patrol no comment, Secret Six ditto, Transmet's a funny one. I feel it's equal parts underrated as much as it sometimes gets misinterpreted as more than it is. Asto City no comment, Next Wave no comment, Judge Dredd is like Transmet.

I find a worse offense in that anon striking out From Hell and Y: The Last Man, they're not the greatest sure but a yes wouldn't hurt. I mean he showed leniency with Hellboy, no offense to Hellboy I'm just saying Seed of Destruction is another case where it's great but not all time greatest.
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>>77807416
Am I missing something or is there no Moebius (or any of the french Metal Hurlant crew for that matter) on here?

Because that's some shit if it's the case.
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>>77811350
Seed of Destruction is only guilty of having Byrne script it. Any other Hellboy arc could rightfully claim that spot, with Darkness Calls and Chained coffin chief amongst them I'd say.
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>>77810928
I guess I should clarify a difference when I say "as a joke" compared to "as a comedic work".

There's nothing wrong with comedy, it can be exceptional compared to a lot of other story types regardless of tone but Nextwave while very cleverly put together to be equal parts well referenced and flippant parody still feels like something done without too much intent to have it rated.
I'm fairly sure Ellis even remarked somewhere that not only was it designed knowingly as quasi-canon, and therefore he didn't really care how seriously it was received by Marvel or fans or anyone, but each issue was done in a very one and done manner so it wouldn't take itself too seriously from A to B and get dragged down. Which I guess, seeing how it was ultimately received so well it became semi-canon by popular demand, is sort of part of that whole brilliance through brevity and boldness only good comedy can really do and is known for compared to many of the less favorably received series with a dark, serious tone but ultimately lacking quality.

Still, there's clearly a willful lack of reverence at play. Hence while I don't think it doesn't deserve a spot, I don't think it needs one by virtue of what it aimed to be. Just a funny read.
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>>77811651
Completely agree there. Once Mignola cutting loose is where the fun begins.
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>>77802775
>Phonogram
>The worst volume of Sandman
>Ultimates
>Civil War
>Rat Queens
>Everything Alex Ross Ever Touched
>Powers
>Kick-Ass, 30 Days of Night and Snowpiercer because MOVIES
>No Newspaper Comics
>80% of the list is from the past 25 years
Jesus, where to even begin.
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