Give me a good reason NOT to be vegan that doesn't involve

It's inconvenient? That's the main reason for me.

hotdog

>>9347211
No. Eat what you like, anon.
I suppose the only real way to tackle this argument is that vegans have to eat carefully to get all their nutrients and unless you love peanut butter or beans, you might have trouble getting all your protein.

Vegans are faggots

>>9347211

If our ancestors were vegan, we'd still be Africa-tier. So there's that.

However, it's your freedom son. Best to you.

>>9347219
This is a good post.

>>9347217
I'd agree with this. Extremely inconvenient, and in my opinion, it limits you too much on what you can actually cook and eat.

Just think about how many things require eggs or butter

>>9347211
Why should I? Why should I care what you decide to put in your mouth? If you want to live a pseudo moral based lifestyle to satiate your narcissistic self conscious then so be it.


I'll be here in the real world enjoying bacon and steak.

Being vegan is the equivalent of being on double strength HRT for your entire life

Meat does taste good though.

Veganism increases your chances of getting cancer

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/03/29/long-term-vegetarian-diet-changes-human-dna-raising-risk-of-canc/

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I answer this question almost every day either here or on /fit/.

I was a vegan for two years (non-concurrent, one when I was 13 and a year when I was 19-20)

Both times I became extremely weak and sick. The most recent year, when I was 19, I went to the doctor to r/o any diseases and find out why I was chronically, fatigued, having muscle tremors, etc. and the only level that came back after doing a huge, extensive panel (thyroid, adrenals, etc.) was extremely low cholesterol. My vitamin D was fine, B2, 6 & 12 were fine- it was just the cholesterol. So I started eating meat again, and big surprise, I didn't feel like shit anymore after about two weeks.

Hypocholestemia hasn't been studied much because it's virtually unheard of in the developed world, as you have to be completely vegan for your levels to tank as far as mine did. Most people are fat and have high cholesterol, so we've demonized fats, when in reality they're absolutely essential for health. Hypocholestemia is suspected to cause cardiac arrhythmia and known to cause depression.

That said, I'm extremely empathetic towards all life (arachnophobe who catches spiders and takes them outside) and believe it's incredibly wrong to treat animals the way we do in the mass production of meat. I source all meat and eggs that I eat from local farmers who gently lead them to slaughter far away from their family. The farmer I buy from actually uses a .45 to kill his cattle, as its much faster than slicing the carotid (or the bovine equivalent). I resent that I can't survive and feel healthy and well without eating meat, so I make sure the animals I consume don't suffer.

>>9347220

Not to mention certain nutrients that aren't as common in plant sources, especially B12. Definitely not saying vegans can't get the recommended dietary allowances like everyone else can, but they do have to be careful to make sure they're not deficient in one or more.

>>9347219
vegan hotdog

>>9347678
I'm all for meat substitutes but all of the vegan hot dogs I've tried tasted pretty terrible.

>>9347211
Milk and eggs basically have the highest quality proteins. Red meat has easily digestible iron.

I was a vegetarian for a couple of years but once I started exercising I had insane cravings for red meat and the taste of iron. I was already eating vegetarian foods high in iron but it wasn't the same, the iron found in animal products is more easily absorbed.

You can cut down on your meat consumption, I'll have meat maybe once or twice a week and eat my fill of it but then go vegetarian the rest of the time.

Also, when lab-grown meat is available in stores there will literally be no point in being vegan. Most vegans will probably start eating it and there will be more discussions of animal meat vs lab-grown meat.

>>9347694
I tried them once and they all had a strangely soft texture. The lack of fat made them pretty bad too, and they smelled kind of funny. I think it was the pea protein.

Boca burgers are pretty good though.

Take a good hard look in the mirror and ask yourself: are these forward-facing eyes the eyes of a plant-eating prey animal?

Take a long walk in the dark woods, worry not traveler, though you've been blinded by the lights of modernity your eyes will soon adjust to the darkness. Ask yourself, are these the eyes of anything but a predator?

While you're walking through the wood forage for yourself on the ground food. Plant matter, roots, leaves, if you're lucky some berries. Swallow them all down now, there's a good traveler. You're still hungry, yes? You have not the rumen of grazing animals, this pittance will never sustain you.

Venture off the trail. The timid deer picks through the wood. A chill pricks at your bare skin, your ape's fur long-since discarded by the march of evolution. But surely the hide of the deer is warm.

See the deer, silhouetted in moonlight, his antlers a formidable weapon, for another deer or a lesser predator perhaps, but for you they are already a tool.

You pounce, the beast could outrun you a at a distance, but among the trees and over such a short distance it's hopeless. Grab the bone of the antler tightly.

Your evolved brain knows well the principle of leverage, it has for eon before it was considered a physical law

A sharp wrench and the beast falls, its broken neck bleating out a final call, not to arms, not to curse your name, but simple bellow to retreat, the beast knows what you are.

You find a sharp rock by instinct and slice the beast's belly open. If you had been deficient in some vitamin you may have felt the uncanny urge to eat some of these entrails, but for now you throw them aside, a bounty of energy for the forest.

You make a fire, the only beast of the earth who knows its secrets.

As the fat of the deer crackles into the fire you sit naked to the waist, blood drying on your arms and chest.

At last you understand.

>>9347211
There is no moral justification to eat meat
But we are on 4chan
Most people here have little regard for morals

>>9347211
Every vegan I've ever known long enough developed some terrible health condition after about 4 to 7 years. There is a crazy balancing act you need to play and you can't be a picky eater in the slightest. Malnutrition will sneak up on you slowly and take as long to get rid of as it did to happen.

>>9347694
False, I've tried them and could genuinely not tell the difference. You must be some Amerifat.

>>9347744
Which did you try?

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>>9347744
>You must be some Amerifat.
>American's have more refined palates than muh superior yuros.
>mfw the narrative collapses on itself.

meat tastes good

>>9347211
Good luck gaining muscle mass without meat

>>9347211
Veganism is shit and will hurt more animals.

>>9347211
because i want to and i can

You should just eat a very small amount of meat compared to the average consumption. There is some ethical and ecological reasons to raise meat on a smalll scale. For one there are many areas animals graze that could not be used as farmland and so it produces food that otherwise couldn't be made. There are also byproducts of high yield crops that humans are unable to make nutritional useage of that animals can. Therefore you can be a vegan, especially because plenty of other people are going to keep eating meat and more power to you, eat what you want but the production of meat and animal byproducts does have a place and need.

>>9347211
Its simple shithead: meat contains protein and iron that your body craves. Plus seafood like oysters contain zinc which helps with prostate health and shrimp contains glucosamine which is key for joint health.

You'll be limiting yourself as someone who makes food.

>>9347211
You have to cook all your meals and constantly eat huge portions or else youll end up a skeleton. Thats the main reason i quit. never being able to eat out or enjoy other cuisines is a dealbreaker

I cut dairy and eggs but still have some lean cuts or fish twice a week. Flexitarian master race

I don't give a fuck about animals. Hell, the more misery they fell, the merrier.

>>9347917
stale meme

>>9347211
Because as a human I'm an omnivore. That means I eat plants and meat. Humans have been doing this for as long as we as a species have existed because it's in our natural diet.

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In theory, there's no real reason not to eat eggs or dairy.

But those are the best reasons, OP.

>>9347987
This. Chickens naturally lay unfertilised eggs to remove them from the body, an analogous process to menstruation in humans and other mammals. We've simply selectively bred chickens to lay far longer than natural, which doesn't decrease their quality of life.

Dairy cows are bred to produce more milk than their calves can possibly drink, which necessitates milking in order to prevent an agonising death by mastitis. If demand for milk were to dry up, we would essentially be condemning an entire species to death by disease or culling by farmers.

>>9347211
if taste is not a concern for you, go be a vegan. i have no argument against veganism if it's based on a preference of taste.

i don't wanna

Its really hard to gain weight if youre a skeleton like me

>>9348031
Brutal truth

>>9347987
Not from a dietary or health perspective but factory farming is pretty bad for the environment and animal welfare. But, that just means we need to come up with better ways of providing those products (lab-grown meat) and taking care of the environment instead of just getting rid of them.

Vegans being faggots is the # 1 and most important reason to not become a vegan. Vegan = liking it up the asshole.

>>9348268
I think that hopping over to lab grown meat for milk and eggs is a bit overdoing it.

Probably smaller-than-factory farms that can afford to do legitimate free-range operation would help out with the animal welfare issue in that regard.

>>9348295
Yeah, even a lot of meat eaters recommend buying meat from smaller farms when you can. Lab-grown meat will help with that too. But, there's still the problem of the animals not living their full lives and potential botched slaughters causing them pain and suffering. A lot of people are just turned off by the blood and death, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

And it's not like cows and pigs and chickens will go extinct because most people stop eating them. We'll want to keep them happy and healthy on smaller farms to have as a backup supply of cells for lab-grown meat. Probably keep them in zoos or petting farms to educate children too.

>>9347211
I wonder how many hours PETA spent prepping that scene. They probably gave the cows bubble baths and hand-combed them

>>9348328
And then killed them because humans shouldn't own animals. They're much happier being eaten alive or starving to death in the wild.

>>9348271
So you must be the biggest vegan in the world!

you do you

Personally, veganism did more damage for me than good. After taking too much acid I went full on new age raw-ish vegan for a year until I started losing lots of hair... and my period stopped for six months. Started eating fish and chicken again, and within two months Aunt Flo came back!
I also alienated all my friends due to the evangelical nature of being an "ethical vegan".

>>9348271
Nah, there are two types of vegans.

One type is just vegan because they think factory farming is bad for animals and the environment. They don't talk about it much, and when they do they're logical and rational, and they don't use buzzwords or call people names. They don't get much attention.

The other type laughs at people who become allergic to red meat after getting a disease from a tick. They throw away meat that's given to them instead of eating it, even though they aren't supporting the industry, they would rather disrespect the animal by throwing the meat away and wasting food. They fail to see the hypocrisy in claiming to be doing something for animal welfare while treating every non-vegan like garbage. They get most of the attention, sadly.

>>9348337
you bring up an interesting thought. domesticated animals have it pretty easy. unless we are talking about those white chickens who are clusterfucked in dim warehouses, many livestock dont have it too bad.

>>9347211
The human body is built to digest animal flesh and animal proucts

those are some cute moolets

good thing they are abundant, so I can appreciate them for being both cute and delicious without damaging the population

>>9348384
Yeah originally it was a good symbiotic relationship for a long time. If we could talk to animals I think they would tell us they don't want to go back to the wild with no help from us, but they don't want to be stuck in factory farms either. I think supporting lab-grown meat and then keeping some of them in zoos/petting zoos and farms for backup supplies is the best way forward.

>>9348372
>and within two months Aunt Flo came back
I'm no expert but that sounds like a bad thing.

>>9348433
Havent been keeping up with the recent news about labgrown meat. I assume its just cell stocks that are replicated again and again? In any case, we humans have the same symbiotic relationship with lots of plantlife as well as with animals. If we could treat the animals better I see it as a win-win for both species'

>>9347211
i wanna know what breed that is. the white one with black nose, ears, and hoofsies is too cute

test
>co / diy / fa / fit / gd / hc / his / int / jp / lit / mlp / mu / n / news / out / po / pol / qst / sci / soc / sp / tg / toy / trv / tv / vp / wsg / wsr

>>9348443
>I assume its just cell stocks that are replicated again and again?
Pretty much. It's about $20/lb for lab-grown ground beef right now which is too much for most people but it was like $250000/lb in the early stages so it's an improvement.

There are also some other issues like it having no fat which results in a poor flavor and texture, and dryness. There's no heme iron in it either which isn't great, and no lactose in lab milk which is good for some people but not everyone. It also currently needs bovine growth serum which is basically filtered calf blood but they're working on a replacement for that too. I think it's supposed to be available within 5 years, or 10 at the most.

>>9348402
no its not. Animals that were meant to eat meat dont get atherosclerosis. Theres a reason the number one cause of death in people is heart disease, its from all of the meat we eat that we shouldn't be eating

>>9348031
exactly and both have the nutrients to support young life so ofc it's going to be good for your nutrition

>>9348511
We aren't supposed to be mainly eating meat like a lot of people do, especially while not having any fresh vegetables or whole grains, and consuming WAY too much sugar. Not to mention the obesity and lack of exercise that's common now. To blame it all on meat is ignoring many other factors.

How do you explain the fact that some people have evolved to digest lactose into adulthood? It's certainly not to keep drinking human breast milk.

>>9348511
Every culture in history has ate at least some meat. Meat has benefits but if you eat as much as the average american AND never walk/run etc then it becomes a problem

I don't need a reason. Blow it out your ass.

>>9348613
dook pls

Animal lives are simply worth so little that even momentary pleasure outweighs them.

>>9347211
It won't really fix the sadness in your heart. You should consider growing your own food though.

>>9347211

Killing things is fun. It's pointless to waste the offal.

It's unnatural.

I completely agree that people are eating way too much meat, that is simply a fact. But cutting out completely? This does not need to be an "Yes/No" answer. I eat meat once or at most twice a week. Get everything i need.

>>9348728
>I eat meat once or at most twice a week.
This is basically what I do. I'll eat as much meat as I want when I do have it which usually ends up being close to a pound. I'm pretty tall and lift weights almost every day though, so most people will eat less. And I still end up eating less meat than people who have smaller amounts with multiple meals every day.

Plus, eating your fill of meat until you're satisfied and don't want anymore makes it easier for you to eat vegetarian the rest of the week. After I've had that much meat I really don't want it again for a while. I think the people who say to only have like 4 ounces of meat with dinner ends up leading to people having more cravings.

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Once you realize how wasteful it is it kinda changes how you think. Here:

Almost all energy life needs comes from the sun. Maybe 10% of the energy of sunlight is photosynthesized by plants (well, and cyanobacteria and some other things). The rest basically just warms it.
Remember, all proteins are in the end created by plants; all other type of proteins are just consumed by animals and transformed.

Now, this 10% (or was it 1%? I forget) is then eaten by herbivores. And if you eat those herbivores, you also get that 10% of energy that animal ate (cause a large part of it goes just into keeping the animal alive). Imagine how much less it is if the animal is in a chain of carnivores. So it's much less wasteful to eat plants than animals from this energy perspective. Something like this is the argument I would use for veganism. I don't really care about muh animals suffering or whatever, I'm more of an autist that really minds optimization and minimizing waste.

>>9347257
You're a good person

>>9348773
It's easier for our bodies to absorb proteins and other nutrients from animal products though. Say you get 100% of the protein from milk, from some plants you'll only get 70% of the protein, which means you'll have to eat more plants to get the same amount of protein.

>>9348328
Oh my God just imagining the baby cows in a bubble bath is even cuter than the pic ah thanks anon

If it's not meat, it's not a meal.

Thanks OP now I want steak for breakfast.

>>9347257
>arachnophobe who catches spiders and takes them outside
I'm not afraid of spiders but I do this too. I started to feel differently about them when I was growing some vegetables and saw these cute little green spiders hopping around on my plants, and I knew that they were keeping pests away.

>I resent that I can't survive and feel healthy and well without eating meat, so I make sure the animals I consume don't suffer.
This is good and what I try to do too, especially making sure to never waste any animal products. Just try to support the development of lab-grown meat and ask for it to be as close to the real thing as possible. They're currently doing things like making it without heme iron and saying it's better this way which I don't believe, but it doesn't make me give up hope for lab-grown meat to be something good in the future.

>>9348031
>>9347987
Nothing wrong with eating eggs or drinking milk, but cheese is made with gut flora from cow intestine, so it involves slaughtering cattle

I find it funny that vegans think they are saving the world. Like changing our eating habbits will somehow absolve us from our massive population spike and associated waste products. We will literally run out of productive land to feed our ever growing population and we will kill each other. Then i plan on turning to human meat

>>9349105
>We will literally run out of productive land to feed our ever growing population
Vertical farms and lab-grown meat are going to help with that. It's okay to be realistic and think of bad things that could happen but to prevent them.

>>9347211

There's no need.

I would like to go vegan but i won't be able to deal with the side-effects, especially considering how skinny i already am.

>>9349105
Overpopulation will reduce our quality of life.

The solution is less population.

COWS WOULD LITERALLY GO EXTINCT IF WE STOPPED FARMING THEM.

Seriously, those beasts are fragile as fuck and extremely dumb, thanks to millennia of selective breeding to create the most docile farm animal.

>>9349186
>The solution is less population.
through better technology and colonizing other planets, not some /pol/ fantasy mass cull

>>9349188
If we stopped eating them we'd probably just keep them on farms for backup supplies of cells for lab-grown meat or other such things, or zoos to educate children, they won't completely disappear.

>>9349028
Absolutely false! No cheese culture, wild or cultured, is produced by slaughtering cattle; the bacterias and moulds within them can be found in the environment and on the skin of the cow.

What you might be referring to is rennet, the digestive enzymes that are used to curdle milk for cheese, which is indeed derived as a byproduct from slaughtered calves. However, vegetarian alternatives for rennet exist, and many cheeses do not require rennet at all (e.g. mascarpone, cottage cheese, and paneer).

>>9347217
>It's inconvenient? That's the main reason for me.
This. I could give up meat somewhat easily, as I dont eat it often anyway. Dairy and eggs would be much more difficult to let go, though.

i'm not going to reproduce so i figure i've contributed enough to this planet

This bullshit belongs into /pol/ if anywhere at all but not here. Are you mods sleeping?

hotdog

>>9349197
>muh powl
t. Blue haired otherkin. Seriously though, in country with high birthrates species are quickly sliding into extinction due to all the land being used for housing, roads and agriculture

>>9349309
>vegan threads dont belong on /ck/
Hows the 70 IQ working for ya? You know we can talk about not McChicken food, right?

The fact that pro choice vegans exist turned me off to the movement. These people cry about chickens but are fine with dead babies what the fuck

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>>9347211
Do what you want, as long you don't try to force it on others, or if its illegal or shit.

>>9349456
There's no pain and suffering involved with aborting a fetus. There is plenty of pain and suffering involved with raising animals for meat.

That's the logic. It's not about "life", it's about pain/suffering.

There's also a legal angle. I know many people who are opposed to the idea of abortion but favor it being legal because at least then it can be controlled. Making something illegal does not get rid of it. Insted it creates a black market where that thing is still practiced, except now it is under shady conditions & necessarily involves criminal elements. That is worse than the alternative, as we can see with the war on drugs, for example.

About to become a moot point with lab grown meat.

>>9349456
Imagine being this fucking retarded.

>>9349477
No argument then?
>killing babies=fine
>killing chickens=evil
Hmm

Veganism is an eating disorder

On the contrary, you SHOULD be a vegan. Just remember that it is perfectly ethical to give blowjobs to male animals, they like it and they aren't hurt by it, and you can get your high-quality protein that way.

>>9349463
Death penalty for women who get abortions and doctors who perform them.

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>>9350342
this.

>>9347608
This argument is always so dumb since 99% of meat eaters are deficient in a ton of vitamins, minerals, fiber, etc.
You will get more out of a plant based diet than you ever will out of a meat based diet.
Combining the two is optimal, but most people still eat way too much meat to be considered any type of healthy.

>>9350342
what do we do about fag ugly virgin fags like you

>>9349316
This too is a good post.

>>9350342
I'm pro abortion. Everyone should get one

>>9347211
Why don't you worry about your child labor clothes, ecologically destructive organic farms and carbon emissions instead?

>>9350491
Do you worry about those things?

>>9348441
Menstruation, like shitting, is a bodily function that can be unpleasant to deal with, but the total cessation of which is a sign that something has gone wrong.

>>9350491
>ecologically destructive organic farms

You mean the ones big agri runs in the same manner as their scorched earth conventional monoculture? I do worry about that which is why I grow as much of my own produce as possible organically and buy the rest from small and medium growers who demonstrate an emphasis on ecologically sound practices and sustainability. I also buy my animal products from the same kind of local farms where animal welfare is a top priority.

>>9347230
Many great minds, scientists and thinkers were vegetarian. Einstein, Hitler, Da vinci, Tesla etc. Only dog tier niggers think meat is good for you

>>9347257
Why don't you just eat mussels to keep your cholesterol up in the range you get heart disease, if you claim to love animals? I bet it's just a made up excuse so you can keep killing animals.

>>9350555
Notch, the creator of Minecraft, is not vegan. Checkmate Vegans

>>9350570
Minecraft is the worst meme of the last decade

>>9347712
>when lab-grown meat is available in stores there will literally be no point in being vegan
That's like the end game of vegans you dumb rural cunt. So that nobody will have no excuse.

>>9347211
Bait thread aside, from a purely scientific approach humans are well known omnivores, much like other great apes. Death is a natural part of list and as such is not innately immoral. The best course of action is to kill with as little pain as possible and use as much flesh s avilable.

That and being able to grab meats cells in a lab, would be optimal, no death required but of the artificially grown cells.

>>9347827
Theres protein, iron and zinc in plants and oral glucosamine doesn't do anything for joints. You fell in to the marketing meme. If anything the animal protein makes your arthritis worse.

>>9348031
Male chicks are ground up alive because no profit in them.

How about we stop bringing millions of these cows to existence by raping their mothers. Why are they here? Just to suffer? Not right. Not worth it. The calves get seperated from their mothers and they suffer. Male calves get their throats slit. Egg & dairy industries are the worst.

>>9348372
So you took acid and did not do your research on how to eat a vegan diet. It was your fault. Stupid rural dick.

>>9350570
I hope that fat cunt dies of heart disease. Fucking bacon meme game

>>9350578
>That's like the end game of vegans

Nah. They'll still find reasons to bitch.

>lab meat is made from stem cells from animals!! EXPLOITATION!!!!1!

>>9347211
Do what you want?

Processed vegan food is more expensive than it's non-veggie counterpart, but if you're good with some very simple meals, it's quite possible to eat well on the cheap.

The main reason to be vegan is championing animal rights. If you're treating it like a fad diet, it will fail you like any other fad diet.

>>9350715
veganism is a philosophy. if you dont eat meat or animal products for other reasons besides cruelty / morality , you generally just say plant based. saying that's the main reason to go vegan is redundant.

that being said , vegans have very little success turning people over to their ideas because of shit like PETA and similar shock-argumentative tactics. however it's understandable why they do it: they have many valid points about animal food production being taxing on freshwater supplies , damaging to environment , and eating too much meat being unhealthy. I dont think the world would ever fully adopt a plant based diet but we would be better off environmentally if people reduced their meat intake and ate more vegetables. in the end , throwing blood on people to make a point will only make veganism a laughing stock to normal folks. obnoxiousness only fuels disdain for the position, even if there is some truth to it.

I want to and it don't hurt nobody bra

>>9347211
>Give me a good reason NOT to be vegan

Hundreds of thousands of years of the march of nature itself has dictated that we be omnivores.

The burden of proof is on you, not it.

>>9350742
one argument proponents of a plant based diet use is that our digestive system is too long to naturally properly handle meat, and in comparing our tract to that of a primate , whose diet is entirely plants, we see the similarity. they also say meat eating animals tend to have shorter digestive tracts e.g. wolves, which are better suited to it. what do you think of this point?

>>9350755
If this makes sense, it's not that a shorter digestive tract is better at breaking down meat, it's that a longer digestive tract is better at breaking down plant matter. If not, I'll try to re-word it.

>>9350742
We can, so we should?

>>9350828
i think it's moreso that meat is hard to digest and the longer it stays in your gut the worse, but i could be wrong. the primate comparison is what's telling to me.

>>9348511
You seem to be confused. No study shows meat causes antherosclerosis in humans.

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>>9347211
It's both healthier and cheaper to not be vegan, also too many tastes and textures you'd be missing on if you let go of all animal-based products

why would you possibly need a reason beyond the way meat and cheese tastes?

>>9347257
>The farmer I buy from actually uses a .45 to kill his cattle
So, even more painful than a stun gun, lol.
>as its much faster than slicing the carotid
Farmers in the developed world only do this after destroying the animal's brains with a stun gun.

>>9350593
>Theres protein, iron and zinc in plants
It's not the same and your body doesn't absorb as much protein or iron from plants. I felt fine as a vegetarian until I started exercising heavily then I got intense cravings for the taste of iron.

Who gives a fuck what anyone else eats. Just put your food in your mouth and shut the fuck up.

>>9348773
Yeah this is a pretty retarded argument. As someone else pointed out above, domesticated animals like cows and bigs are exponentially better at converting plants to energy. Go out into a field and eat nothing but grass all day for a few years. Think you'll end up being as big as a cow?

>>9347211
Nice insecurity, OP

In fact I consider veganism to be very evolved. It's a positive and conscious movement of social and ethical responsibility. My only criticism or concern, rather, is that people aren't doing it well. I wonder if people are getting all the nutrition they need. Protein, iron, and B and D vitamins especially.

>>9351064
Do you want to be as big as a cow?

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Plants are extremely complex beings with levels of perception that we can't even fully understand and as capable of feeling basic emotions as most animals. Simply because you don't hear them speak it doesn't mean they don't have forms of communication.
If you believe plants and fungi are some sort of inferior being not deserving of your attention or consideration on human ethical grounds you might as well think the same of cattle in relation to humans.
Dog meat isn't actually so bad, you know?
>>9348773
The problem here is that many animals produce proteins that plants don't, that we humans need for survival (or even if we do produce them, eating them directly is more beneficial) and that we cannot produce due to whims of evolution, yes, many of them can also be found on plants, but some animals hoard the proteins inside their bodies. Another whim is that we humans are terrible at digesting things in general, carnivores have very aggressive, small tracts that dissolve almost anything you put inside it, herbivores have very long, contorted, big and powerful guts absolutely necessary to squeeze protein out of plants; humans stand in the middle of everything, we need to clean and cook meat to not fall deadly ill every time, we need to be extremely selective with the plants we eat and how we eat them if we want a chance of absorbing nutrients from them (and also not fall ill). If we remove cooking from the equation, there's actually a very small selection of plants that we can safely consume, let alone digest. Meanwhile cattle eats mostly plants that we should stay away from, even after cooking.
>>9351093
That's the point, cows can get much bigger than humans eating much less of a same type of meal.

>>9350855
>meat is hard to digest
No, the reason why carnivores have small digestive tracts is because their digestive enzymes are so powerful they dissolve the meat fast and even destroy most parasites and bacteria that could be accompanying it, coupled with their need of a faster metabolism than their prey it leaves no necessity of having a longer intestine since which it's just body weight slowing you down.
Herbivores do have long intestines, but these are still immense compared to humans and they have much stronger stomachs as well in which the meal can sit and be regurgitated back into the mouth for more chewing and then go back to slowly decompose on the stomach before going to the intestine. The reason they can't eat meat is because they lack the levels of protection against the acids and bacteria present in meat that carnivores have, we have some levels of protection, not as good as carnivores but not as weak as herbivores either.
>the primate comparison
Primates are omnivores as well, they eat a lot of fruit but also fish, rodents and insects when they can and depending on the species, but none of them are 100% herbivores either.

We were made precisely to be bad at digesting any particular kind of food on it's own, that's why we need to ingest both kinds and why eating too much of one or another can lead to either constipation or diarrhea in most scenarios.

>>9351154
>many animals produce proteins that plants don't

Are you sure about that?

>>9351289
Amino acids, sorry, got mixed up.

>>9351279
interesting, thanks for the input. i'm an ovo-lacto vegetarian for reference but considering re-introducing fish to my diet.

>>9351305
I understood you, I'm just wondering where you got your information. As far as I can tell, all of the essential amino acids can be made by plants. Actually lots of the non-essential ones too.

>>9347211
go do what you want but please shut the fuck up about it because I guarantee that 99% of the people around you will NOT care when and if you try to evangelize them about it.

>>9347211
It's an unsustainable lifestyle that produces more waste because of the amount of food you will need to eat daily will almost double.

Animal fats also carry certain proteins you cannot get without eating meat unless you turn to supplements which, also may be animal based.

Veganism is essential the dietary form of paying carbon taxes. It's a way to make you feel superior without having much effect on the cause you fight for.

>>9351386
Which proteins?

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Because vegan food is expensive and nutritionally worthless.
And by not being a vegan i'm allowed to both meat AND vegan shit.IMAJEN MAH SHOCK
Also that goes without saying but vegans are annoying faggots that kill their children
And meat is delicious,probably is the reason why vegans shove their stupid life style in everyones faces.You are like that 40 year old catlady feminist that wasted her life fighting stupid shit like "patriarchy" and now what wants to turn all young women into miserable old single bitches like her!

>>9351316
Well I don't remember very well were I first read about it, but I found this site on a quick google search
http://www.healthline.com/nutrition/animal-vs-plant-protein#section7
>Animal foods are the highest quality protein sources. Plant sources lack one or more amino acids, which makes it more difficult to get all the amino acids that your body needs.
So it is possible to get all your amino acids on a plant based diet, but it's harder and much less efficient than simply eating meat once in a while.

>>9347257
So you're currently closer to being a vegan than to being an average meat eater.
I'm not vegan either but discussions about this stuff just shows how most people are just terrible, if they cause animal abuse to get cheaper meat (yeah the consumers are responsible) they're literally as bad as the ones who set fire to animals to put it on vine.

>>9347725
This post is completely useless since it ignores the point of the ones who quit meat which is that it's often produced with terrible living conditions to cut costs.

>>9348031
>If demand for milk were to dry up, we would essentially be condemning an entire species to death by disease or culling by farmers
If demand doesn't decrease we're condemning a lot more species to extinction from using too much land.

The extinction argument is very common among you people but it has absolutely no merit since the high production causes so much more of it.

>>9347744

Man, I'm a vegan and really like meat substitutes but you must have no palate whatsoever to think that

>>9352439
>they're literally as bad as the ones who set fire to animals to put it on vine.
That's not a very good argument; abused animals on farms become good that feed into the economy and become someone's nourishment, the other is just a wasted animal because very few people actually want to watch these videos and are unprofitable.

>>9347211
>Protein
>Iron
>Vitamin E
>Zinc
Anon,please.

>>9347211
It's OK if you go vegan.
Having the majority of the world eat vegan however requires half of the population to die first, because vegan cannot sustain so many people.
Cows can eat plants that grow on soil that doesn't grow plants humans can digest.
Like paleo diet. That's cool, too but also cannot nearly sustain 7.000.000.000 people world wide.
So in order to not be a hypocrite you have to agree your family and friends die first when you want others to live vegan.

>>9352520
Is your argument that the abuse is good because you can get more food from less labor and resources?
It's not a rhetorical question, I'm just trying to be sure of your posts meaning before replying.

>>9347211
Vegans are faggots

>>9352535
This is a silly argument anon. You can choose what to grow on your soil don't be daft.

>Give me a reason to do a thing other than the reasons that there are to do a thing

Anyway, a varied diet is better.

I don't have the time to cook good vegan dishes that would give me the necessary proteins and shit to live a healthy life.

If I had a personal chef that would cook me varied, delicious vegan dishes every day I would happily give up meat. I stayed at an Indian's friend place for a week and her mom cooked daily vegan food and it was amazing. However, she stayed like half a day in the kitchen to do all that shit. Nobody has time for that when you work.

>>9352549
Depending on the soil type, climate, etc.

>>9352605
Everything we can use to grow grass can be used to grow human compatible ctops instead. The meat industries have you Neo.

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>>9347211
Insectivorous diets are superior to vegans because of the protein and are as sustainable as plant based agriculture if properly developed.
Cruelty is not an issue to harvest insects.
Your move faggot.

>>9352578
>Indian
>vegan
Sweetie you mean vegetarian

>>9352537
No, my argument is simply that your argument of people letting factory farm animals get abused for cheap meat are not as evil as the people who abuse and kill animals for fun.
Also, the argument that the fault of poor farming practices lies on the consumer alone is a bit far fetched, specially outside of Highly Developed City, USA.
>>9352609
t. botany illiterate

>>9352863
>my argument is simply that your argument of people letting factory farm animals get abused for cheap meat are not as evil as the people who abuse and kill animals for fun.
Then you didn't even have an argument, just a claim without even an attempt to show why your claim is true.
Those things are just different forms of the same evil.

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>>9352869
>Then you didn't even have an argument, just a claim without even an attempt to show why your claim is true.
>projecting this much
No, I actually did explain at least a part of my argument, what you are doing is simply pointing fingers and yelling "evil!" left and right to feed your ego without exposing your reasoning, if there's even one.

If you're Christian then you believe that God put animals on Earth for our sake, in which case it's fine to eat them.
If you're atheist then there are no morals so who cares, just do whatever you want and there are no repurcussions. If you want a tasty meal at an animal's expense then go for it.
Either way you're good.

>>9347716
boca burgers have the consistency of quadruple-dense styrofoam and the taste of dust and ash

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>>9352636
>all Indians are vegetarian
Retard.

>>9352892
Eh, i like pigs so i dont eat them. But other animals are good to go

>work in slaughter house
>Get free meat almost everyday
So lads why should I eat less meat ?

>>9352892
good post

>>9347211
If you give up meat and dairy all you have left to eat are vegetables/fruit, carb, sugar and oils

>>9347211
because I don't want to always be that guy who has to get something different because of dietary restrictions
no one likes that guy who makes everyone eat cheese pizza because he's a vegetarian and being vegan just makes it worse

>>9347257
There is no logical reason why you are so concerned with the suffering of animals, you can be concerned about the suffering of humans because you are a human and if it becomes ok to make another human suffer then it's only a matter of time before it happens to you
As for animals they are animals, as long as you don't run into the Lions cage at the zoo you are ok
Vegans like to pretend that an alien race would see us as cattle but that's a fallacy because we have never seen an alien race, we don't even know if there is an alien race and if aliens one day come here they would likely be so different from is that we wouldn't be able to predict any behavior so I'm not afraid of that happening, I mean I wouldn't eat a caveman
And if you think that's unfair because animals can't fight back then sorry but I don't agree that justice extends to animals

>>9353255
>austim

>>9353288
Not an argument