sup /ck/ takin my Certified Cicerone exam next week, any

welp doesn't look like anyone is in this boat
ask me anything about beer then, i guess?

Not a cicerone but homebrewer here. Thinking about trying my hand at a saison. Any advice on getting the flavor profile right?

>>8924903
are you planning on using wild or cultivated yeast?
if wild, where do you live?
if cultivated, what yeast?

>>8924862

Why does 120 minute age well when other IPA's - even high abv - turn to shit after a couple months?

>>8924912
I was taking a look at WLP565, but I don't have any experience using it. I'm in the NC appalachian region, so I don't know if using wild yeast would be viable up here or not.

>>8924918
IPA's in general are best consumed fresh since the "star" of the beer is the hop characteristic. 120 is so hopped that it becomes sweet and syrupy, so it stands up better to the test of time. However, I still wouldn't recommend aging it. The hop character will still fade with time.
>>8924927
I've only brewed 5-6 batches of my own so I'm no expert in this field, but I would recommend not over hopping it. Saisons aren't meant to be hoppy and novices tend to make this mistake... Also saisons are meant to be wild-yeast (specifically brettanomyces) fermented beers so if you can get some brett that will make your beer true to style, slightly tart and deliciously unique. If you live near an orchard or fruit farm, try to harvest some wild yeast from there. Also, you should use a wheat-heavy mashbill. Hope that helps, thanks for forcing me to exercise a part of my brain I don't typically use

>>8924947
Much appreciated. We've got a lot of vineyards up here for the wineries, so I think that can be arranged.

>>8924947

>120 is so hopped that it becomes sweet and syrupy, so it stands up better to the test of time

Um, isn't it the heavy malts that make it sweet and syrupy?

I always just assumed that it was the high amount of sugars (fermented or otherwise) that preserved the hop flavor, but have never been able to find an answer.

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1MB, 320x240px

>>8924976
Typically, yes, malts are what make beers sweet and syrupy. But 60, 90, and 120 are all made with the same base and hopped for different amounts of time. If the malts were making 120 sweet and syrupy, then wouldn't 60 minute be sweet and syrupy too?
What your palate is interpreting as sweet and syrupy is actually a heavy, heavy dose of lupulin oils and alpha acids, which is what all brewers try to extract from hops. Your palate and your brain have a threshold of bitterness that they can detect and interpret, much like your eyes have a limit on what wavelengths in the color spectrum your eyes can see. When the bitterness of a beer goes above that threshold your palate and your brain don't really know what to do with the overload of sensory input so they interpret it as sweet, and the viscosity or "syrupy" quality is the byproduct of a liquid that has a high amount to TDS (total dissolved solids).
Hope that helps, cheers

>>8925959

Are you sure about DFH using the same malt base?

Also, I've had plenty of higher IBU beers, and they sweetness always comes from the triple/quad malts they put into the wort.

>>8924947
>IPAs are best consumed fresh
Ok what the fuck, I thought the whole backstory of IPA was that they were brewed for long journeys at sea and meant to stay sanitary or whatever

>>8924894

I'm a homebrewer but lack fermentation temperature control, so all my beers ferment at ambient temp (70-80 degrees). What is the best beer or style that I can make at this temperature?

>>8926988

Hops have natural antibacterial qualities that help preserve the beer for longer. That IS how the style received it's name and came to be. However, the delicate flavors of hops denature over time. Beers that were heavily hopped and allowed to sit for a year would taste like beer but would likely have no hop character besides bitterness.

>>8926951
I think they are? Thought that was the whole point of that series of beers... to be honest haven't had the 90 or 120 in several years, this is just based on what I know of mega-hoppy beers and those beers in particular
>>8926988
What >>8927354 said is accurate. Origin of style was to increase shelf life. But 350 years later people drink beer much differently; what you're saying is like complaining that adding water to wine just makes the wine watery since a major reason that wine was created en masse was to make filthy water sources potable and bacteria free

>>8927337
Brewing is definitely not my area of expertise as I have mentioned before but with my knowledge and understanding you should be good to brew really anything that's not Lager; try to keep it under 80 if you can though, 75 at the most

>>8925959
no way anon, that can't be true
60 minute IPA: 6.0% ABV
120 minute IPA: varies, but ~18% ABV

...unless you know some way to get alcohol out of hops, in which case I'd like you to share

>>8925959

Unfermentable sugars are what make beers sweet and syrupy and are derived from the variety of malts used and the temperature at which they are mashed. As for "hopped for the same amount of time", hops that are boiled for 90 minutes and 120 minutes will pretty much have achieved the same amount of alpha acid extraction therefore should have the same IBU supposing the same volume and variety of hop are used. However, no one just adds one charge of hops and leaves it to boil for 60, 90 or 120 minutes because that would most likely come out bitter as fuck.

>>8926951

The difference in ABV between the 60, 90 and 120 means that they will certainly have to up the amount of malt in their grist. This is why the higher the ABV tend, the more sweet malt flavours are present. More malt equals more fermentable and unfermentable sugars being produced in the same amount of liquor. However, the fermentable sugars are converted to alcohol whereas the unfermentables remain post fermentation and cause the beer to become sweet. There are ways round this, such as retaining the original malt base and adding pure fermentable brewing sugar to up your ABV but I think that somewhat takes the skill out of making stronger yet palatable beers.

>>8929016

They are of all different ABVs The 60, 90, 120 minute, definitely with Dogfish Head not too sure about others, is in reference to how long the wort is boiled for. Dogfish Head also make a point of how they add a certain amount of hops per minute for the entire boil which is a bit pointless in my opinion but works as a gimmick.

>>8927337

70 degrees, or 21 degrees in my units is just about topping out for regular ale yeasts however, exothermic reaction will take it above that temperature anyway. You could try doing darker beers where any esters formed (which won't really be that many until you get to over 27-28 degrees C) are masked more by the richer malt flavours

>>8930142
>>8927337

Ran out of characters. You could also try doing some Belgian style ales that are typically fermented at slightly elevated temperatures and often benefit from small amounts of esters being formed. Yeast isn't nearly as sensitive as a lot of people would have you believe and can take quite a lot of punishment.

the sissy rone is for profit education so it's more than likely a scam.

I've even met Ray Daniels and sat in his office a few times, he's a good guy.