>they can't even tell red from white! >california

Admitting that I am contrarian only due to being poor and hating myself for it.

>>8033364

>Thanks for paying for most of my dinner.

both wine snobs and anti-culture faggots such as yourself are equally cancerous

>>8033364
Lol, did you just defend 20,000 dollar wine?
Are you completely retarded?

>>8033364
Hold the glass of wine up to my ear, and shush them with a condescending look every time they try and ask me what I'm doing, it's hardly fault they're such a pleb they don't listen to the grapes

>>8033404
>here's my strong opinion on something I've never tried, let me tell you about your experience

>>8033404
Yes I did. As far as i'm concerned, nobody who pays more than $3000 for the cheapest functioning car possible has no right to judge anybody else based on how much they choose to pay for wine.

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>>8033364
>wine

>>8033410
20/20

>>8033413
Every time I get angry with morons like you, I take a deep breath and I remember that they pay absurd amounts of money to a guy like me that tricks them into buying some shitty wine and a false sense of identity.

$20,000 to a 20$ wine what $3,000,000 are to a $3,000 car.
You are certainly not rich enough to just waste 3 million, so it's obvious that you try too hard to impress.
Mommy issues eh?

>>8033413
>coworker's wife totalled their SUV again while texting
>he's browsing the internet looking for a "crossover" whatever the fuck that is
>some bullshit that costs $47k
>they don't even need a cage, maybe twice a month to drive out to Montauk and they can just take the train but muh cage, muh freedumb
>motherfucker literally drinks the most bottom shelf god-awful garbage
>says good stuff is "too expensive"
>meanwhile, muh $47k "crossover" that will either lose 3/4 of its value the second he drives it out of the showroom, or get totalled by his wife again

Cagers have the weirdest value system

>>8033439
>cage
>cage
>freedumb
>cager
worst bait I've seen in years, 0/10

>>8033444
I'm sorry I didn't put trigger warnings on my post. Maybe you should get one of those plugins that changes words to make them less scary.

>>8033413
>>8033436
>>8033439
>>8033444
>>8033447
Just buy a Miata

>>8033447
never mind, this is worse bait. -1/10

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>>8033364

"Drinking for the sake of drinking is degeneracy."

>>8033482
4chan is degeneracy, stormtourist newfag.

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>>8033482
Where can I get the sake of drinking and how much is it?

>>8033489
Probably at the same place you can get the bag of holding and the sword of cutting.

>>8033400
Http at least you found a way to feel superior to both dot xkcd

>>8033482
Hitler also did speed so fuck right off

>>8033618
Guess what: people who don't get emotional over things are always superior to people who do.

I don't like alcohol and I do wan't to get into it

>>8033436
I'm not even that faggot you are talking to, but you know you are being intellectually dishonest by using his crazy $20K number

People here complain if you spend $100 retail on a bottle of wine, which is more akin to spending $15,000 on a car rather than $3,000. Hell, I'm betting over half, if you started a thread fresh talking about a $50 bottle, would bitch and snort about it, rather than buying fucking Barefoot or some shit.

There is a plateau point for wine where you start getting diminishing returns, and that is where you get rich ass mofos that would spend 20-50x the price for a 10-30% increase in any kind of uniqueness or complexity (that only maybe 5% of wine drinkers could really enjoy). But that plateau is up around the $60 mark (retail, would be closer to $180 in a restaurant). I mean, a $20,000 bottle of wine is something that is auctioned at Loyd's of London or Christie's for fuck's sakes.

>try too hard to impress
>nobody could possibly enjoy nice things, it must all be for show! They're just trying to make me angry!!!
ahhhhhh you're one of those retards.

>>8033439
>cage, Montauk, cage, freedumb, doesn't understand insurance beyond minimums
Get an AIDS test, faggot.

>>8033782
>haha not caring is the only way to win, I mean like holocaust more like who gives a fuck-caust haha solved that argument too give me another
>having a consistent ideology? I might have to defend it haha nice try no thanks

>>8033782
>literally being this autistic
RUN

>>8033867
>insurance is so you can text while driving
Cager logic

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I used to work in the Wine industry, both the vineyard and the Winery but not retail. This was in Australia.

Let me redpill you on wine.

Everything over about US$40 is marketing. Yes we reduce the vine's ton/acre yield to a ridiculously low proportion but the vines could ripped and nourish the higher yield we'd sell for $35 a bottle. Yes we do a lot of labour intensive stuff in the winery which needs paying for along with your fancier corks but it just makes no difference.

Sure it tastes different but ask anyone who is into wine but not a complete douche (hard to do I know) and they will tell you it's different but not necessary better.

My favourite wine: Riesling, not that popular but delicious.

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>>8034012
>australia
>wine

>>8033364
I've never actually experienced that before. I only drink wine at the racquet club, I drink beer otherwise.

It wouldn't make me feel dumb and unsophisticated, I would simply think they're inexperienced.

>>8034012
>classic australian shitpost.

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>>8033817
Most of it sucks, don't let anyone tell you differently, but some of it is really exceptional and worth trying.

As far as wine goes, the only kind I really like is Riesling, which is actually very nice, but beers the only things I really recommend to non-drinkers are some of the stouts like Guinness, and then make sure to tell them which bars serve it properly, since a lazy pour and unclean taps make it taste metallic, while a proper pour + clean taps has a nice clean feel to it. There's lots more beers to be excited about, but I feel like a good stout is more unique and should be tried, but of course it's a bit of an acquired taste

>>8033867
tl;dr

>>8034012

>My favourite wine: Riesling, not that popular but delicious.

Riesling Spatlese is pretty popular here with the working class, an Aldi classic.

>>8033436
Not the Anon you're responding to, but you miss the entire aspect of class expectations. People generally abide by the norms of their social class. If most of your peers drink soda, drive pickup trucks, shop at Walmart and east fast food it would seem awfully pretentious to drop serious money on wine, or even drink it at all. But if your peers have wine cellars, drive luxury cars, shop at boutiques and eat at Michelin starred restaurants buying good wine (regardless of cost) isn't the least bit odd. At a certain point people like that make peace with the fact that they'll never actually DRINK all the wine they buy, and the cellar will just become part of their estate when they die.

>>8034209

It's not odd, but it is a bit annoying. As I said in the Soda thread, I feel wine snobbery is holding gastronomy back.

Drinks lose out on gastronomic innovation because restaurateurs don't want to lose the chance to bilk the easy marks which are expensive wine drinkers (and expensive water drinkers).

>>8034256
>wine snobbery is holding gastronomy back
you just don't get it because youre not cultured enough.

>>8033456
Its the best car

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>>8034308
I thought the best car was the S2K

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>>8033373
I feel you

>>8034256
I suppose a case could be made for that, with somms and wealthy Chinese buying up so much Burgundy that the good stuff has become totally out of reach. But good Burgundy is a luxury, just like fine dining. And luxury products are generally for rich people. So it's really more a matter of social class. Giving too much of a fuck about gastronomy or high end wine is not really right for someone in the middle class because that's not that world. If you can't really afford the cost of entry why are you there?

One of the nicest things about wine is that it can be egalitarian. There are tons of good under $15 (even under $10) bottles for people who aren't rich to enjoy. Do any of them taste remoely like a red Burgundy or Bordeaux from a great vintage opened after the "right" amount of cellaring? Nope. But they're good.

I wouldn't worry about gastronomy being "held back". It's like art, music and fashion. The classic stuff will always be classic, there will always be new trends going on and a very small percentage of the new stuff will eventually become classic. It's not something to worry about.

And I wouldn't even call it snobbery. It's more that people generally stick to their own social class. The middle class guy will pay more to eat at Five Guys partially because the food is better than McDonald's, but also because the price keeps the lower class out. The rich do the same thing, but choose places where the price keeps the middle class out. There's nothing wrong with that.

>>8033364
I don't bother with them. The truth is that anyone who has had expensive wine knows that in terms of quality, it is only just slightly above 2 buck chuck.

Wine is much like fashion or automobiles. People use it as a status symbol, they want the name-brands. They don't care about reality, they care only for perception.

>>8034331
nope miada.

>>8034384
>i've never had a good pair of jeans
>i've never experienced the features and comfort of a luxury car
>i've never had good wine
>I don't have nice things so there must be no point
the post.

>>8034256
>Drinks lose out on gastronomic innovation
Gotta reply to you again, because I disagree with you strongly here as well. The whole early 2000's cocktail thing hit pretty hard. Now even shitty chain restaurants have lists of their "signature cocktails". The craft beer thing has upped most folks' beer game quite a bit. And wine lists are more diverse than ever - you don't see that many that are only French classics anymore. People who are into coffee are drinking better coffee than they were a couple decades ago.

There's been a lot of forward movement over the last couple decades when it comes to drinks. Even soda, though you see less of that on the high end.

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>>8033439
how much of your parents money have you spent on moto life you anti cage cuck

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>>8034405
>I spend exorbitant amounts of money on things which are only just slightly better than the affordable everyday things in life solely in the pursuit of status symbols.

>luxury cars
planned obsolescence, they fall apart after 3 years. Buy replacement parts, $$$.
>expensive jeans
planned obsolescence, they fall apart after 6 months. Buy another pair, $$$.
>good wine
Nothing but a name. This is a business first and foremost. The name of the game is profit, how do you get profit? You tell dumb dicks like you that it's "fine" wine, you spruce up your day-to-day operations in order to give the allure of "tradition". $$$.

Move near any major wine producing region on Earth and you will learn this very quickly. There is a reason that people living near Burgundy pay jack shit for the same wine that you pay a thousand dollars for per bottle. It's because the people living near there would never in a million years consent to being charged that much for wine, but you will, dumb foreign fuck with a taste for "luxury".

Enjoy living a lie and pretending to be superior to other people who are, in reality, getting more pleasure out of life than you are for a fraction of the price.

>>8033439
You realize the price is meaningless, though. All that matters is that the vehicle is the same thing the other people driving out to Montauk are driving, so they know they made the right choice. If everyone on Montauk were riding Vespas your coworker would be buying a Vespa. He's making decisions the same way everybody does: look around to see what your peers are doing, and do that.

>>8034384
this is somewhat correct. there is a middle ground. anything above it is for status and anything below it is for price and bad quality based on that price or product.

>>8034492
>status symols
not why, but thanks for proving my point.

>>8034498
good luck with that.

>>8034012
>It's different but not much better
>Admits to unironically enjoy Riesling
I bet you think 700 dollar scotch isnt neccessarily better then 70 dollar scotch just different.

>>8033867
>he thinks the holohoax happened
hahahahahahahahaha

>>8034513
I bet you think that there is no 70 dollar scotch on earth that is better than a 700 dollar scotch.

Protip: there is.

I believe that you're missing the psychological aspect of "luxury". Ever heard of the placebo effect? I could slap a $700 price tag on a $70 bottle of scotch, alter the labels and then you would praise it for its quality. Like the guy said, anything over $40 is marketing. You pay more because you are led to believe that it is better, and because you believe that it's better then in your experience it actually IS better.

This is the kind of thought process that people like you lack, and it is the same thought process that businesses take advantage of for the sake of increased profits.

If you don't believe me or the other poster then I suggest that you try to enter into one of these fields as a career. You will learn first hand that we aren't bullshitting you. A lot of effort goes into tricking people into spending more money than they have to.

>>8034492
>dumb foreign fuck with a taste for "luxury".
That's how style, fashion and luxury work, though. In Brooklyn people want what's cook in Paris, while Parisians want what's cool in Brooklyn. I have a buddy who is a model, and he never works in the US because he's too "American looking". He gets flown to Rome and Paris all the time for work, though. Exoticism is part of the appeal when it comes to luxury goods.

I don't see a thing wrong with that, it's just the nature of the beast.

>Enjoy living a lie
Nothing wrong with that either.
>pretending to be superior
No one is pretending, they're just doing what members of their social class do.
>a fraction of the price
There are many customers out there who are price insensitive, so it doesn't matter to them.

>>8034542
>anything over $40 is marketing.
Not quite. Scarcity really counts as well. There's only so much good Burgundy out there at a given time, and a lot of people who would like to drink it. That'll drive the price up to $200 a bottle. Can you find a good $40 bottle of Pinot Noir that's as good as a good Burgundy? You can, but it isn't easy. It's a tough grape to grow and work with, so good examples of wine made from it command high prices. But because it's popular you can shitty examples of it in boxes for $20. That will not be very Burgundy-like at all.

It's not just marketing. It's hard to make good Pinot, and the people who give a shit about making it can only make limited quantities of the stuff. So the good stuff is expensive. The people mass producing it don't have to give a fuck whether or not it's good because the people buying their wine just want something cheap that says Pinot Noir on the label - they've never even tasted a good example of it..

But you're right about people enjoying something more just because it's expensive, rare or difficult to obtain. That's just human nature, though. We put value on such things. Precious metals and gems are great examples. Any product that requires a lot of skill, time and resources to make gets valued similarly. No one will pay $50 for a glass of Coke, because it's easy and cheap to make and also widely available. But they will pay $50 for a glass of good Burgundy, because it's not. And someone paying that much is going to appreciate it for the rare thing it is, even if that has nothing specifically to do with the taste of it..

>>8033364
only fags and women drink wine

>>8034471
I don't know what any of that means

>>8034640
Great comment. Buyers do drive up the price of wine, which I find ridiculous as there are so many great wines you could buy for much cheaper.

Kind of reminds me of /vr/ complaining about the price of retro games. So many old games cost a fortune because people want "that game" even though there's 100's of great games for less money they would probably like more.

The Chinese are the worst for this in my experience. Actually they don't give a fuck about the wine just the social status that comes with buying.

>>8033494
critical rekt

>>8034661
>The Chinese are the worst for this in my experience. Actually they don't give a fuck about the wine just the social status that comes with buying.
Almost right. It's the social status that comes fom giving something rare and expensive as a gift. Prestigious French wine has taken the place Johnnie Walker black used to have in Asian gift giving.

I don't see this as such a bad thing, though, because it's not like I was buying much in the way of prestigious Burgundies and Bordeaux in the first place. I'm not really in the tax bracket to drink wine with bottle age on it anyways.

>>8033630

Speed isn't alcoholic, it's amphetamine, a completely unrelated compound. You must me pretty dumb to confuse the two. Stimulants and depressants are literally opposites.

>>8034453

The cocktail scene is almost entirely alcoholic. Alcohol is such an atrociously limiting substance for building flavours around. It's like restricting yourself to only making sweet dishes.

Coffee has very little room for innovation except for the stuff aimed at the lower classes. You are allowed to mess around with pressures and milk, but oy vey if you actually combine the coffee with non traditional ingredients. That's for plebs and Starbucks.

I'd consider the Soda fountain era as the greatest for drinks gastronomy. Even then though it was separate from the food.

It makes no sense to see food separate from the dish, or to make wine the only palette used to match it with a drink. The Chef should be creating most drinks to go with a dish. Alcohol should be in the minority of them and wine in the minority of those.

>>8034691
On a scale of 95 to 100 with 100 being "medical textbook grade freak of nature" and 95 being "mostly able to understand simple declarative sentences but unable to infer feelings or inflection, requires round-the-clock professional supervision", how tragically autistic are you?

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>>8034700
There's so much wrong with this post I don't even know where to begin, but I'd probably begin with "the Soda fountain era as the greatest for drinks gastronomy"

>>8034700
Sorry, but
>>8034714
this. The soda fountain was for teenagers who suddenly couldn't hang out in bars anymore. It was just a bar where the alcohol was replaced with sugar.

If you look at the kind of drinks people make a big deal about they're usually drugs, mostly alcohol and caffeine. People like drinking their drugs. I'm not one of those people who sees sugar as a drug, but obviously some people behave like it is.

>>8034700
>It makes no sense to see food separate from the dish, or to make wine the only palette used to match it with a drink
Pairings tend to be traditional. In wine drinking cultures they have worked out wine pairings. In beer drinking cultures it's easier, because beer pairs well with almost everything. There are many foods designed to pair well with coffee and tea, fuck the English have an entire meal devoted to it.

I'm not particularly interested in innovative drink pairings, and sure as fuck wouldn't want them from someone who sees the soda fountain as the golden age of anything. Not a soda drinker.

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>>8034492
>luxury cars fall apart after 3 years
lol no. not any faster or slower than non-luxury brands
>jeans fall apart after 6 months
how fucking fat are you? i have pairs of diesel jeans that are at least 5 years old and dont have any holes in them.
>good wine is just the name as cheap wine
people dont pay a thousand dollars for a bottle of wine because it tastes good. people will pay $100 for a bottle of wine because it tastes good.


you have the mentality of an angsty teenager or some wannabe that got rejected from the racquet club for lacking any understanding of class.

pic related, it's you.

>>8034776

>The soda fountain was for teenagers who suddenly couldn't hang out in bars anymore. It was just a bar where the alcohol was replaced with sugar.

But they experimented with the ingredients and the technology to combine them, they were all unique with their own unique specialities.

Even the cocktail scene has to wank to traditionalism, their allowed palette of is very limited.

Drinks are mostly in the equivalent of the pre-nouveau cuisine era. Refining traditional recipes and allowing small incremental development in the production of traditional ingredients (especially if it takes an inordinate amount of time, man time and money). Only the plebeians go beyond the boundaries of tradition and concentrate on what can be done and changed in the kitchen.

I have to admit Starbucks does innovate quite a lot, but it's at the Franchise level ... and they are often looked down upon for it.

>Pairings tend to be traditional.

Many of the dishes at the most highly rated restaurants are completely non traditional, there's nothing traditional to pair them with.

>>8033400
I disagree, no matter how shitty snobbery gets, at least it implies effort the other one only wallows in a lack thereof.

>>8034857
To be fair he's not entirely wrong. I've got friends in fashion, and they've told me stories of having to sew buttons back on Chanel jackets backstage at shows because they were sewed on so poorly in the first place.

While many luxury products are made with better materials and more careful attention to detail some of them are just slapping a label on the same shit as the cheap stuff. Eyeglass frames are a great example of this shit.

>>8034860
>Boy I love the flavour of High Fructose Corn Syrup the post

>>8034876
In tailoring, the button sewing is considered the lowliest task. All this shows you is that Chanel is a real old school fashion house because the water boy at the runway event is being made to sew buttons at the last possible second.

>>8034876
yea, but we were talking about jeans, specifically a good pair of jeans. I get that same poor quality shit with shirts - sometimes the buttons come off in the wash. but most people aren't going to get a good fit wearing shirts from old navy.

dont get me started on glasses. luxottica pisses me off, and the very few other brands that exist have taken advantage of the monopoly situation.

>>8034876
Catwalk items are the equivalent of prototypes though - they're intended for a couple of uses, to see if 'people' like the style, and if so they mass produce them to slightly higher tolerances

>>8034890
>luxottica pisses me off
reddit: the opinion

>>8034706

Autistic enough to know the basic differences between unrelated compounds.

>>8034405
>>8034492
>>8034857
>>8034876
>>8034887
>>8034890
>>8034905
I want /fa/ to leave

>>8034929
I've never been to /fa/ other than a short visit

It's just a bunch of teenagers jacking off over ugly tennis shoes and underaged camwhores

>>8034934
>It's just a bunch of teenagers jacking off over ugly tennis shoes and underaged camwhores
I think we have the winning entry for the "describe 4chan in 20 words or less" competition

>>8034934
Jesus Titty Fucking Christ, I just took a look at it for the first time, the degeneracy is off the fucking charts

>>8034860
The problem is the medium: sweet drinks. Who drinks sweet drinks? Kids and fat women. No one will take you seriously when that is your target audience. Most people who are into gastronomy just don't take sweet drinks all that seriously. Maybe drinking chocolate and a handful of Italian sodas, but beyond that? There's no way to maintain any sense of gravitas sucking on a milkshake or a rootbeer float. You look like a teenager.

>>8034978
No, the problem is that it's ALL sweet drinks

The alcohol world has plenty of good sweet stuff (imperial stouts, late harvest wines, many cocktails). But there's also dry stuff, bitter stuff, sour stuff, etc.

>>8033364
"LOL you're literally drinking poison"
"It all tastes like rotting barrels to me"
"My uncle is really into wine too, he's an alcoholic"

or what >>8033373 said

>>8034978

There's a big world out there beyond sweetness, tannins, alcohol and traditionalism to be explored.

If the plebs are the only ones doing gastronomy instead of wanking to traditionalism, then of course the gastronomy will centre around certain plebian predilections. But it doesn't have to be that way.

Just do it better than them. Of course a restaurateur which tried doing that would have to give up the sweet lucre which can be made by putting a margin on ridiculously expensive wines.

>>8035060
Not sure what you're saying, do you equate wine with traditionalism? Traditional for one country is heresy for another. They've been making wine all over the place for millennia. Most wine lists outside of Midwestern steakhouses make an effort to show the "exotic" as we as the known.

>>8033400
This. Go ahead and drink your shitty horsepiss of a $10 bottle.

>>8035080

The tradition is picking wine as the one true palette from which all drink pairings have to be pulled from.

Although it's as much perpetuated for economic reason as traditionalism, which is why I think it has stayed lodged. Whereas food continues to be set free in recurring waves of innovation and anti-traditionalism.

Economics being the stronger force than tradition.

>>8034988

I like floral stuff and wish there was more out there. I mean there's tisanes but there has to be more they can do with it. I usually cold brew jamaica and drink it unsweetened after 24 hours or so and it's bretty gud. I tried soaking in tequila but it becomes too bitter unless you get the time just right.

>>8033364
>ReeeeeeeeeeeeeeEeeEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>STOP LIKING THINGS I DON'T LIKE

Fucking man child

>>8035137
>The tradition is picking wine as the one true palette from which all drink pairings have to be pulled from.
Fine dining was nased on the French model, and that's what the French believe. They're not entirely wrong. Wine is awful with some foods, but pretty fucking good when paired right. And a sparkler can pair well with just about anything. And's that's more fun than some random "innovative" drink. There is a difference between innovating and just making shit up.

>>8034331
nope rx7 fd

>>8034037
>Australia

Fourth largest wine producer in the world, mate. Not bad for a country that is 90% desert and only has 24 million people.

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>>8035393
Calling this stuff "wine" seems generous

>>8035374
>There is a difference between innovating and just making shit up.
Fine dining is mostly made up shit, the rest being empty wallets.

What is even going on in this thread?

>>8035467
angst.

>>8035467
People not accepting the superiority of Chilean wines.

*laughs in californian*

>>8035489
All Chilean wine is good for is when you want a bordeaux knockoff for cheap and you have enough sense to avoid Californian garbage

>>8035467
>What is even going on in this thread?

Two opposing but equally autistic points of view are raging war

wine culture is such a fucking joke

>>8035528
Culture in general is a joke.

>>8035535
damn dude that's edgy as fuck, holy shit.

All these comments about how there's great 15 dollar or even 10 dollar wines available, could you give me an example of one? I'm genuinely interested in something that I'm not grabbing randomly by how cool the label looks.

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>>8035594
yellow tail. pic related.

>>8033867
>>haha not caring is the only way to win, I mean like holocaust more like who gives a fuck-caust haha solved that argument too give me another
Not caring about the holocaust and not caring about wine snobs are two very, very different things, retard.
>>having a consistent ideology? I might have to defend it haha nice try no thanks
What ideology specifically dictates someone's stance on wine tasting and wine enthusiasts?

>>8035594
It's pretty subjective
My favorite example is cotes du rhone, but it may not be to your taste
Never trust inexpensive new world wine made by a large company
Ok to trust inexpensive big name old world wine because they are making wine for working class people who like wine
By big name I mean stuff like Guigal, Faiveley, etc

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There is no rage quite like /o/ rage. I have never seen a subculture that gets so passionately furious about a topic.

How do I know? Because we're arguing about cars on the cooking forum.

>>8035459
>Fine dining is mostly made up shit
Not quite. It came from how royal courts ate. An emergent bourgeois aspired to the same, or at least similar, and an industry grew up to accommodate them. Then Escoffier codified how the kitchen of such a place runs, along with many of the dishes served. A couple decades later Michelin started rating it.

Everything since then has been either building upon or rebelling against that model.

>>8034860
You can't tell me that a good bourbon cocktail like an Old Fashioned or Kentucky Mule doesn't go great with fatty pork dishes, or that a really simple margarita isn't amazing with some al pastor tacos

>>8035594
Two inexpensive Spanish wines I've been enjoying this summer have been a Malvasia white called "Cien" (100) and a Rioja Tempranillo from Hacienda Lopez de Haro. Both retail for under $15 in NYC. Both are good wines. Not the kind of wines that would give a serious wine drinker half a chub, but perfectly good everyday wine.

>>8035642
Under $15 rioja in NYC means $25 rioja on the west coast, FYI

>>8035594
New Age white wine. Like 12$ at qfc. Tastes like green apples. Delicious shit. I guess they upsell it at the melting pot per glass and our server told us where to buy the bottles instead lolo

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>>8033364
Huh?

>>8035650
I don't drink much wine on the West Coast. Not worth it.

>people who ever spend more than $50 for a bottle
Is there any reason to ever do this besides keeping up appearances?

>>8035779
yes.

>>8034209
>class expectations
Complying with social norms of your socioeconomic group is one thing, actually believing in them is another.

Also overspending is always a choice. Are your friends and/or enemies worth wasting that much money on things? If yes, go ahead, if no, stop it.
Being peer pressured into wasting half your income in SUV and wine-cellar-construction payments is stupid. I really look down on people who do this.

>>8035780
What though? The difference between mid tier and high tier wine is just marketing, there is no substance behind it

>>8034678
fucking kek'd

>>8035869
no.

>>8035629

If you aren't a frequent drinker alcohol overpowers very quickly. A chef could develop drink alternatives for various level of alcohol tolerance though, much like heat tolerance is usually taken into for Eastern cooking served in the west.

I just think it's as silly to look for alcohol as a basic necessity in drinks you pair a dish with as it is to put chilis in everything.

>>8035890
haha, if you say so California

>>8035910
maybe.

>>8035857
>Complying with social norms of your socioeconomic group is one thing, actually believing in them is another.
Most people are too busy living their lives to even notice this distinction exists. I get what you're railing against but I don't really give a fuck. I live a pretty luxurious life cheaply, but that's because I made that a priority when it comes to food and wine. Some people have different priorities, and that's cool, too. I just do it because I've been lucky enough to experience top tier food, but I'm not interested in a career that pays me top tier money. So I spend a couple hours a day shopping for and cooking the meals I can only afford to eat out once in a while.

Works fine.

>>8035612
The /o/ 'argument' ended hours ago, everyone agreed to get a Miata

>>8035869
This.

>slit this throat
>catch the blood in a wine glass
>drink it in front of his eyes
>what a shitty vintage *smirks*
>leave

>>8036287
Fuck off miata shill

>>8036938
but anon, it's the best

>>8035902
>I just think it's as silly to look for alcohol as a basic necessity
It's not a necessity. But like I said earlier people get cultish about drinks that also happen to be drugs, with alcohol and caffeine being particular favorites. And sugar. But sweet drinks really only pair well with sweet food. If what you're eating isn't particularly sweet a sweet drink doesn't bring anything to the party. The acid cut in wine and the carbonation in beer allow them to pair well with a large variety of savory foods. And they contain alcohol, and people like alcohol.

While most people drink less alcohol at meals than they used to it's still common in more upscale dining situations. If I'm out to dinner at a nice place and someone orders a soda instead of wine or beer my first guess is they're either an alcoholic in recovery, a religious nut or they have shit taste. Most of the time that guess turns out to be correct.

>>8035467
1/3 /fa/ being autistic
1/3 /o/ being autistic
1/3 /ck/ being autistic

>flyovers talking about cars
zzzzzzz

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>flyovers talking about cars
>coasties talking about fashion
>food nowhere to be seen

rofl

classic fucking /ck/

>>8035594

Ca' Momi from Napa Valley. I know, I know I sound like a douche, but I got a bottle in Maryland for 12$ and it's a great dry red. Literally the only time I've ever asked the guy at the counter to recommend something. Normally I buy beer

>>8038586
>from napa valley
>uses grapes sourced from all over the state
americans will support this

>>8035594
Kung Fu Girl Reisling

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>>8035406
Look, Ma! I can cherrypick too!

>>8033364
While it is true that you can spend a lot of time learning about all of the nuances of something to become better than most people at it, it is important not to take the hobby too seriously. It is still just wine; you are still only drinking it either because you think it tastes nice or to get drunk, or both. I respect that you are enthusiastic about it, but to most people it really does't matter and you should respect their lack of enthusiasm.

>>8035594
Müstique Riesling Kabinett Mosel

>>8039122
Nobody runs around claiming that stuff is anything other than bum wine. Meanwhile, Australia pretends its shiraz is world-class wine.

>>8039554
Ausfailia stores chilled methylated spirits in hardware store fridges to sell to dirty abbos, they aren't real people.

>>8034331
>>8035379
na if they were good they would still make them, only good cars continue to be bought and produced like the corolla and accord

>>8039603
>implying the 2016 corolla is in any way related to the 1986 corolla

>>8035594
Rioja are properly rated Spanish wines who can be a really great bargain if you want a super fruity red. My favorite is Montebuena and its literally 9 ameribucks. THe wines from the non-traditional wine producing countries can be p great, just not very complex sometimes.

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>>8035642
Mah nigga.

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>>8033439

Fuck is a cage? Is that a meme? Are you a memeing canadian? Aren't they all into gay hockey sex?

Btw I own a crossover. Fully loaded it would have been 48k, not worth it at all. But I got the base model, then financed it myself, and picked the one color that was sitting on the lot too long and had a factory incentive, so it drove away for 31. At that price it has a shit load of value and will keep it well.

Get your shit box 3k car and it won't do much besides be a car, mine has awd, can tow, do very light offroad, carry good weight, and shit loads of space, great safety. Also that 3k is balanced by the maintenance bill that will creep up as you hit key mileage markers.

Don't bring cars into this. Spending up is actually the right thing to do dependent on all factors. Just like with wine, it all depends.

As I see it, the order goes

Bordeaux
Champagne
Napa
White
Red

In terms of price per quality bottle. So it will be hard to get a decent bottle without obvious flaws for less than 60 from bordeaux, about 40 from chanpagne, maybe 30 from Napa (less if you're there), maybe 15 for a white that's good, and with red you can literally meme your way into awesome bottles for 6 bucks in any city.

>>8039715
You've got it backwards, cager. There are no white wines worth drinking that cost less than $20 a bottle. Some reds, though.

>>8039715
It's some faggot shit that people who ride bicycles call cars. It's like, fuck off idiots, try having the need to go more than 5 miles. Having a car isn't a lifestyle choice. There's a reason travel has refined itself to the point that automobiles are ubiquitous.

Like, fuck off with your pedalshit, even gayer than Harley faggots.

>>8039754
>five miles is a lot
Cager my commute is 17 miles each way, stop acting like everyone is a cripple
Anyway it's a wine thread, if you want to argue over whether you need to be an Olympic athlete to live without a murderbox I'm happy to discuss this with you on /n/

>>8039724

You can't even fucking read.

>>8039754

Jesus fucking christ it's up there with calling urinal users "standers". Just coat their tampons with morphine why don't they.

>>8035497

If you could suggest some of those bordeaux knock offs, would be obliged.

>>8033412
THIS. So much this. People shit on cars they'll never be able to drive, on clothes they'll never be able to wear, on food they'll never be able to eat, then pitch a natural fit when somebody shits on something they enjoy (like Cheez Whiz).

>>8039786
You're being a douche, but, I'll forgive you because cagers can't help it
By bordeaux knockoffs I'm thinking of stuff like Lapostolle
The French seem to see something in Colchagua
It's hit or miss, but at least they're aiming in the right direction

>>8039754
>Having a car isn't a lifestyle choice.
It is, albeit a common one. There are a few places where you can live well without one. I've lived with one and without one, and while I like driving it was very nice not to have a car for several years. But I live in a pretty pedestrian city. Not having a car doesn't work in a lot of places. My bro went from not having a car in the city to living in a semi rural area with a car. First year of that he gained 20 lbs.

It was definitely a choice he made.

When I was younger I lived in the 'burbs and had a car, but in good weather would bike 11 miles each way to work. Later in life it took a mostly vegan diet and weightlifting to get me back to what I weighed then. (More lifestyle choices).

>>8033364

I just like a nice, tasty wine. I usually go for whatever's local and has good praise.

But last time I drank wine, I downed 1.75 liters in a half hour, got charged with a violent misdemeanor, went on probation, and now I'm kind of turned off of the stuff even though I really like it. I'll drink beer and liquor, but I just can't bring myself to purchase wine.

>>8039943
Wine is best consumed in a controlled environment like with a meal so things don't get crazy. Fail to eat while drinking the stuff and it can make you as crazy as drinking gin.

>>8039970
Gin doesn't make you crazy either though

>>8039943
fucking americlaps

>>8041211
Speak for yourself.

>>8033364
I just remind california wine fags that I can get a good bottle for 2 euro.

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Californian here that works with two vineyards in one of the best wine regions in the world.

Expensive wine is a meme BUT good wine is not. Wine snobs are cancer. You don't have to wear a blazer to drink good wine. Some of the best bottles I've tasted and purchase are 35-40 dollars.

Also California has the best wine in the world. Sorry but it's a fact. The climate is perfect. It's a desert Mediterranean. Euro wine tastes dirty.

>>8033364
>when an arrogant whine snob tries to make you feel dumb and unsophisticated?
Does this actually happen, ever? I mean, maybe in California because it's full of faggots, but nowhere in the real world.

>>8039820
No it's because there is no way that a wine can have something that warrants in 20,000 in production costs. Are you aware how easy it is to make wine? I've had reds with some of the best sommaliers and they say essentially past $50 (80 US around) it's just paying for the name. You'd know this if you'd actually had any

>>8033413
That is a double negative, your low class is showing.

>>8034037
>All that's shown in the graph is moscato
>They're all yellowtail
I think it's more embarrassing that there's a market to export our yellowtail to lmao

>>8041607
>our climate is so good we use mega purple in all our wine

>>8041607
lel I live in california too and you're full of it

they really brainwashed you wherever you work

>>8041607
>The climate is perfect
Then why do you make wine that manages to redefine the words "tastes like piss"?

>>8033782
active shooter alert

>>8041607
>The climate is perfect.
Perfect for making wine that's fruit forward. Couple that with the fact that restraint is not a Cali virtue and you get the same problem Australia and Argentina have - a tendency toward high alcohol fruit bombs. These wines pair great with grilled meat, but not much else.

So yeah, California wines are the best if you're grilling meat. When you're eating something else they're rarely the best choice.

>>8035577
The fact you can't understand the irony in your post and then your reply means you're blatantly underage

>>8041607
>wine snobs are cancer
Napa wine culture is cancer. Most wine drinkers are not like that.

>red wine is only ever to be drank at room temperature! You don't know good wine
>here is your 32 Celsius wine you fucking foreigner.

>>8034209
Why are driving luxury cars and shopping at boutiques associated with fine wine
I'm sure there's a social class difference, but just because someone has a lot of fancy rich people stuff doesn't mean they know anything about wine
I'm sure there are people with wine cellars, or at least those wine mini coolers, with no actual interest in fast cars or expensive watches

Let's face it, how many people who drive expensive luxury cars know how to fix those expensive luxury cars

>>8033364
I say wine is for faggots, and that i prefer beer.

shuts em right up.

>>8041916
>shuts em right up.

>"why waste words on an idiot when I could just not talk to this asshole"
you're the kind of retard who jerks off in public and says "people know I'm dangerous because of how I present myself"

>>8041923
i dont jerk off in public.

but that is EXACTLY what an asshat paying for an overpriced wine is doing.

>>8041899
Why is fixing your automatic transmission in your driveway a prerequisite for owning a car?

I'm a software developer, I don't consider it a prerequisite for using my stuff that you should know how a compiler works.

This American 'self reliance' delusion gets taken way too far. This isn't the 1820s anymore, get a grip people.

As far as wine goes, if you enjoy it, it's not a scam.

Everytime you see a luxury car theyre driving like a jackass and weaving in and out of traffic. Living in a country where people actually care and cant fully utilize a lixury car because theyre in stop and go traffic.

I will say $90 dollar vodka is way better than shit like takka but not worth it everytime you want a highball or screw driver

>>8041940
>As far as wine goes, if you enjoy it, it's not a scam.

Its a scam whether you enjoy it or not.

Just as its not a prerequisite for us to know how a compiler works inorder to use your software, its also not a prerequisite for you to know you are being scammed, for it to be a scam.

>>8041940
>Why is fixing your automatic transmission in your driveway a prerequisite for owning a car?
It's not
I'm stating a difference, people who buy a lot of expensive wine don't automatically know a lot about wine
People who know how to fix a transmission know a lot about cars and it's completely possible that someone with the cheapest $3000 car knows more about italian superluxury cars than someone who actually owns one
I don't know why you're projecting that much onto me, but I never even implied anything like that
I'm arguing against people like >>8033413

>>8041899
Wine can be an expensive hobby. I'm not rich by any means, and I spend several hundred dollars a month on it. It requires a certain amount of disposable income. If you don't have it you can't play. Same is true for luxury cars and fashion. It also extends to other activities associated with the wealthy such as golf, skiing, sailing and owning horses. Wine is egalitarian compared to those things, but it adds up quickly. It's not really a hobby for someone trying to raise a family on a budget.

>>8041961
>Its a scam whether you enjoy it or not.
You either need to apply that to all alcoholic beverages, or none

There's nothing special about wine in that area

>>8041989
>Wine can be an expensive hobby
>If you don't have it you can't play. Same is true for luxury cars and fashion
Not at all
There's more than one way to learn about things
You might not know how it feels to drive a luxury car, but if you really wanted to, you could find out literally everything else about it
You might not be able to buy $2000 wine every month, but that doesn't mean you can't spend money on wine and find out how to taste all the subtle qualities that make wine wine, it doesn't mean you can't actually take the time and make your own wine to figure out what kind of wine you like, it doesn't mean that someone who can buy $2000 dollar wine knows more than you

>>8041996
>Some people who drive expensive cars know a great deal about their mechanical workings. Others don't give a shit and only bought it because it was flashy bling to show off.
>Same with wine. Some people buy expensive wine because they like it. Other people buy expensive wine so they can show off.

And I'm saying that owning those things doesn't automatically make you more knowledgeable about those things, simply because those "others" exist

>>8041994
we are talking about wines.

i will apply it to other alcoholic beverages in threads that discuss those other alcoholic beverages.

>>8041999
Absolutely true. I got into wine by getting into the business. But I'm not really in it anymore, so I have to pay retail most of the time. But if it isn't going to be your business it's a bad idea to get into an expensive hobby if you can't afford it. I don't golf, shi or sail. I don't ride horses. I don't collect cars. I only travel internationally for pleasure ever few years. A somewhat modest life on other fronts leaves me a few hundred a month to blow on wine.

If money were to suddenly get tight I'd have to step back from this hobby. Because unlike some of my friends in the business and rich friends I'm not in the position to maintain a cellar. I'm just drinking better than average table wine.

>>8033364

Had an american friend once speaking this kind of thing. We drank his first bottle of gewurztraminer (30 euros, not even one of the Best on the market) together then 2 more. Never heard him speaking shit about wine ever again. Just try looking for a nice North Italian White with the App vivino, you'll be impressed

>>8042052
>What's the difference you mention
For instance, you said that the software you create doesn't necessitate an intense knowledge of the software
The difference between what you and I were saying would be like me replying "the people who use your software wouldn't necessarily know more about your software than, say, another developer"
That's the difference I was referring to, the difference between what you and I were talking about

>>8042099
either way

>>8042069
The thing with being rich is that you don't have to know dick about food and wine to eat and drink really well. You just go to good restaurants and order what the somm recommends. You go to upscale wine shops and buy the staff pics. Sure, your lack of knowledge will have you overpaying for what you drink, but if you have the disposable income you may not care. You'll still end up with a reasonably high baseline standard for what you drink. So when someone pours you a glass of Concha y Toro at an art opening you will notice it's pretty grim.

>>8033364
I typically reply with
>I had a puppy once.
Then I drain my glass.

>>8035629
Mojitos go great with seafood.

>>8042786
Anything citrus goes great with seafood
Same with wines that have citrus flavours

>>8033439
>crossover
>cage
>cagers

What the fuck am I reading?

>>8039122
WHATS THE WORD?

>>8043286
Donnervogel?

Wine price chart:
>0-$20 - budget. If you find a good one get a case to drink on weekdays
>$20-$40 - decent. You should genuinely like the wine if you pay this much for it.
>$40 - $75 - premium. every bottle that costs this much should be great (some aren't). At the point where diminishing returns take hold.
>$75+ - luxury. Paying for prestige/gimmicks. The very best wine gets blown out in price because of limited supply and high demand. It's worth trying some of these but foolish to drink week to week unless you have more money than sense.

fite me. Strayan btw.

>>8041607

>Euro wine tastes dirty.

Don't you guys usually call that earthy?

I love alcohol. It might be the love of my life. I've never loved anything else as much or as long as alcohol. But ultimately it's all just rotten plant juice. That's all alcohol is. It tastes good and it feels good and I love it but be reasonable. There's no reasonable justification for paying a thousand dollars for some fermented grapes.

>>8043533

This is true

>>8043644

"earthy" is code for shit in a wine tasting. the worst thing you can hear as a winemakers is "earthy" or "ok"

>>8043533
>>0-$20 - budget

Oh sure, just lump together 95% of all wine produced in the world. It's all just the same eh? Seems you have more money than taste..

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>>8033364
>Rudy Kurniawan
All those wine snobs BTFO

>>8044437
But that doesn't follow. Not in the least bit. Are you drunk?

>>8039754
>try having the need to go more than 5 miles
I just take the metro. Or the train. Or the tram. Each of them gets me to my destination faster than a car would.

>>8039754
>Having a car isn't a lifestyle choice.
>This is what Americans REALLY believe
hahahaha oh fuck

>>8044986
Getting to your destination quickly is socialism. Sitting in my cage raging impotently at the gridlock is FREEEDOOMMMM
t.US of America

>>8033364
Make them watch the "Adam Ruins Everything" segment on wine tasting.

>>8039754
>There's a reason travel has refined itself to the point that automobiles are ubiquitous.
Yeah, massive bribes paid by the automobile industry over several decades. Wait, I'm sorry. They're not "bribes", they're "lobbying". I forgot that giving money to government officials in exchange for passing favorable laws is legal in America.

>>8044951
>But that doesn't follow.

Yes it does. When you say $20-$40 is decent and everything under is 'budget', as if it's a euphemism for crap, you sound as snob as it gets. 'Decent' starts with any simple table wine that's not faulty like too sour, too flat or has an off taste. That's really all it takes for a simple wine you can enjoy with dinner. That starts at around $5-$7 I guess, depending where you live maybe. At $10+ you can expect some quality, at $15+ you *should* expect it. Lumping everything under $20 together is just plain wrong. Again, probably well over 90% of wine consumed is sold for less than $20..

>>8034062
I hate people who take a Guinness pour too seriously. Definitely taps and other factors affect the taste but I drink the shit nearly every day and I couldn't tell the difference between a bad pour and a good one so long as you both wait a couple mins before drinking

>>8045030
Damm, your insecurity is projecting all over the place.

I'm not the guy you're arguing with, but "budget" means literally how much money you have to throw around.

And over 90% of the wine consumed is bordeaux blends sourced from whatever fruit fit the budget (try not to get triggered by this word), manipulated with megapurple and microoxygenation and so on, in order to make something homogenous and predictable.

There's nothing wrong with this if you just want something innocuous to drink with your steak and burgers, but it gets boring especially if your diet isn't limited to steak and burgers.

Unfortunately the millions of dollars that go towards making infinite supertankers of budget bordeaux blends out of anything that will grow, have not gone towards replicating other styles of wine, so if you want something good and interesting that doesn't fit into this model, in most cases it means you're going to have to increase your (trigger warning) budget.

>>8045059
>your insecurity
eheheheh

> your steak and burgers
projecting you said?

>90% of the wine consumed is bordeaux blends
No it's not. There are plenty of decent (sic) under $20 wines all over Europe that are not at all Bordeaux style. You sound like the typical halfwit who has to pay a high price just so he feels safe he didn't buy something that some other guy would look down upon.

The point isn't so much what budget means or doesn't mean but the implication good and interesting wine always costs $20 or more.

>>8045094
In Europe you're spoiled. In America a (trigger warning) $20 budget doesn't get you access to most of the stuff you're talking about. Since we are discussing dollar denominated budgets you can assume the scenario under discussion doesn't extend to magically teleporting yourself to the vineyards of Languedoc. So fuck off with your unrealistic ideas of what $20 supposedly gets you

>>8045110

The Aussie guy started counting in dollars so I went along with it. From what I see browsing the web sites of US wine dealers (I do that once in a while just out of curiosity) prices aren't really that much higher in US. Seriously, if you can't find a decent wine for under $20 you're doing something wrong.

http://www.wine.com/v6/90-Rated-Under-20/wine/list.aspx?N=7155+2407

>>8045110
So you're saying you live in a shit country? Show's over guys

>>8045154
>100 point rating systems
Sorry but nobody who follows those gets to talk about "doing it wrong"

>>8033364
Same way I deal with all foodie cucks.
"If you are not spanish your opinion is irrelevant."

>>8045364
What If they are?

>>8045369
only pamplona counts.

>>8033782
well you seem not very neutral on the topic of being neutral so you're inferior

>>8034492
You're wrong about jeans. In six months you'll spend as much on replacing your walmart jeans as you would on a one time major cash drop for jeans that will last years. But that's why you're poor, you can only think about now and not later. I bet you buy paper plates

>>8045486
>muh raw selvedge
2009 called, they want their memejeans back

>>8045523
2009 is the last time I bought jeans

>>8045523

None of my jeans have fallen apart faster than my raw selvedge i sized down 2 on. Crotch got destroyed on all my pairs. Shit is such a meme and I fell for it hard. That being said, I also have /fit/ thighs so i'm not some /fa/ twig.

Anyway back to the topic at hand, what's a food friendly white that's not too fruit forward? I love Muscadet, Vermentino, Gavi and Gruner Vietlener but they're not always avaialble.

>>8045556
Xarel-lo and albariño

The latter is a bit cheaper and easier to find

>>8045523
Who said anything about raw selvedge?

>>8045562
>albariño

seems right up my alley. On my list to try with Sancerre, Pessoc Leognan, and Pays d'Oc.

>>8045635
Sancerre got memed on the international scene about 10 years ago, quality has nosedived. Although the red stuff (not what most plebs think of when they hear sancerre) is still very legit

>>8045622
No one cares, /fa/ggot
Go jack off over your boosts

>>8045059
>And over 90% of the wine consumed is bordeaux blends sourced from whatever fruit fit the budget
That's hyperbole, but your point is well taken. Aside from sherry and port it was Bordeaux wine that pretty much established the export wine trade. It's classic and incredibly popular. A good percentage of the world's red wine is either an attempt to replicate it or a rebellion against it (sometimes both at once).

If you live in a place with a strong regional tradition of winemaking you can find something else to drink for a good price. If you don't a Bordeaux style blend is going to be one of your main options. IKt pairs well with hearty food, particularly beef and lamb. And when it's done well it can be spectacular.

I understand frustration with how ubiquitous it is, but as a style it's perfectly legit. Sure, low rent knockoffs of it will suck, but low rent knockoffs usually suck.

>>8045712
I fucking wish sherry clones were all over the place. Talk about unappreciated styles. If you walk into a 'classy' wine shop in California and ask for sherry they'll sniff at you and say go to whole foods

The wine industry is run by a bunch of fucking retards who think if it's not made of Cab Sauv and Merlot, and soaked in new oak for 24 months, it's junk

>>8033364
Not their fault that you are in fact dumb and unsophisticated.

>>8045724
NYC is easier for sherry. It's not super popular, but it is available.

>The wine industry is run by a bunch of fucking retards
The wine industry is run by people looking to make money. You make money by giving the people what they want for a reasonable mark up. Oxidized wines are out of fashion at the moment. Bordeaux blends are like classic French food - always in fashion. Burgundy is incredibly prestigious, so everyone is looking for a cheap Pinot Noir that's actually drinkable. Chardonnay still has a stigma against it, but you can sell it as white Burgundy. And it does seem people are getting increasingly hip to Spain as a source for value.

I don't think it's all that bleak in the industry. I'll agree most mass market Cabs, Merlots and Pinots are grim, but at least in the Northeast it's not all that hard to do much better without breaking $15 a bot.

>>8046126

What are some good spots to go in NYC for bars/buying? I'm >>8045556

>>8045331
>>100 point rating systems

You arrogant little prick.

>>8039820
>food
ok
>car
ok
>clothes
lmao

There's actually something that makes high cost cars and food objectively better, clothes are always 90% brand. Even clothing companies admit this.

>>8033364
There's a good middle ground somewhere.
I strongly dislike the way wine is described compared to the beer and (unbelievably)the whiskey world as well.
The former describes beer exactly as it is, there are so many great ways to describe a beer based on what it was made with and how much.
Whiskey has a general nucleus of flavours that we would use to describe it depending on the kind(Bourbon, Scotch, Rye etc).

Wine on the other hand is described very poorly because it tries to draw comparisons to everything under the sun that isn't in wine. There's a better way to describe wine flavours out there, people are just unwilling to change and are fine with describing fermented grapes as "coffee and grapefruit". It's not even subtle flavours, it quite simply doesn't taste like that. It wasn't made with that.

>>8046140
Wine bars are great, but spendy. The markup is just a fact of life: in order for a wine bar to stay in business they pretty much have to sell wine by the glass at the wholesale bottle price. If you can make peace with that kind of math the best wine bar in NYC is probably the Ten Bells on the LES. Great selection of bu the glass wines, bottles, oysters and tapas. Downsides: it's loud, usually paked, expensive and cash only. But if you've got a Benjamin or two in your wallet you're looking to burn you have have a great time there.

As for wine shops, most neighborhoods have at least one decent one. In terms of destination places Astor Wines is pretty fucking good. Moore Brothers was a great choice for a more boutique experience, but they're currently closed and in the process of moving to Bklyn.

>>8046270
>grapefruit
Sauv Blanc can be powerfully grapefruit-like on both the nose and in the mouth. You chose an awful example to make your point, leading me to suspect you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

>>8046297
Have you tasted a grape fruit in your life?
They're minerally and taste a bit like a pill. There are better examples of citrus fruits, but wine that's not infused is nothing like that.
We're of course dealing with subjective opinions, which is not to say that Wine A can't objectively be better than Wine B, but rather that people taste different things and having differing opinions on a sensation is common.

>>8046288
Moore Bros was like 80% obscure producers of traditional white wine varietals, not that there's anything wrong with that but kinda weird

Also, flatiron wines is pretty great, and warehouse has some steals on scratch n dent if you're willing to put up with a lot of stuff that's past its drinking window and fall in love with a $20 bottle that you'll never find again below $80

>>8046432

They have different grapefruit out there with severely different flavors

>>8045331
Holy shit this.

>>8046432
Have you ever tasted Sauvignon Blanc? It can have a very strong grapefruit taste to it.
>>8046508
>80% obscure producers of traditional white wine varietals
White wine seems more variable than red. In Italy alone it seems like every town has their own white wine grape that they make their traditional wine from. That level of obscurity allowed Moore Bros to have lots of value in whites, because you don't have to pay for prestige in a wine no one has heard of.

I loved that about them, and am kinda psyched they're moving to Industry City, because that'll put them practically walking distance from where I live.

>>8045675
I hate how that works. Every time some wine or region catches on, the quality drops off a fucking cliff.

>>8046601
Might also just be that a lot of shitty sancerre that got ignored pre-meme started getting imported due to insatiable demand

>>8046630
I think this is more the case. Sancerre becomes popular and the search begins for the cheapest wine out there that say "Sancerre" on the label to sell at places like Trader Joe's.

>>8046591
Tbh the thing that made Moore stand out for me was the obsession with climate controlled shipping

I didn't (and still don't) have the budget for dropping $50 on some obscure Czechoslovakian diamond in the rough where every bottle has a little soil analysis on the field it was picked in just for shits and giggles, but it would be neat if more stores got into that

>>8039820
>People shit on cars they'll never be able to drive, on clothes they'll never be able to wear, on food they'll never be able to eat
except there are very few cars ill never be able to drive, literally no food ill never be able to eat, and the only clothing i won't wear is because it looks like shit and i look better in a $5 T and $30 jeans than i would in shitty, overpriced "designer" shit.

Its not about lacking money. At least not for me. Its about seeing bullshit.

I recently went to France and not once did i get a better meal than i would at some of my favorite restaurants in LA.

Yeah, some of that fancy shit's good/enjoyable, but its ALL overpriced

Your "high society" is bullshit. I have the money to be there, but its a retarded, pretentious culture. You're not better than anyone else

>>8046837
They are total fucking nerds at Moore. Fortunately they also have a few affordable bottles.

>>8046859
>Yeah, some of that fancy shit's good/enjoyable, but its ALL overpriced
As mentioned earlier in this thread SCARCITY is most of the price with expensive wine. The most desirable wines are produced in pretty limited amounts, and the price of them is what customers are willing to pay. It might seem overpriced to you if you expect a direct correlation between price and quality. But it doesn't work that way at the high end. What you're paying for at that level is the fact that you are one of the very small number of people who get to have it, because there's only so much of it available at any price.

Thjis kind of thinking is antithetical to middle/working class values. But it's the kind of thing rich nerds really get off on.

>>8046859
It's pretty dumb to buy $300 t-shirts with a tiny little Anne Demuelmeester tag on the seam, but buying $30 dress slacks is guaranteed to make you look poor and sad. Whether you'll admit it or not, there's a threshold for looking good and it's quite a bit more than $30 when it comes to pants.

Also, now that office dress codes are out of fashion and having "personal style" is an actual thing that people get subconsciously judged by, services like Trunk Club make a lot of sense for people with some money but no sense for clothes. There's quite a bit more pressure on people now to be "individualistic" even when they're not. Gone are the good old days when you could just buy twelve of the same shirt in different colors at the nearest Brooks Bros and call it a day.

Probably if you live somewhere that looking good is seen as "gay", you'll view this idea with outrage, but a lot of people see value in nice clothes.

But I suspect in your mind, "designer" means a sweater with a huge Armani logo on it, rather than understated expensive stuff like Kiton or Eton, where nobody actually sees the logo and most people wouldn't even necessarily recognize it if they did.

>>8046936
>Whether you'll admit it or not, there's a threshold for looking good
There are actually several thresholds for looking "good". Which one applies to you is a matter of region and social class.

>>8046901
Lower middle class neckbeards get off on it too, just look at the masturbation fiestas we see over limited release beers

Thing is in flyover country, where machismo reigns supreme, liking wine is basically an open declaration of homosexuality, much like eating vegetables, or understanding a foreign language

Also, limited-release beer is still pretty affordable. A 4-pack of KBS is what, $20? Imagine how many KBS 4-packs you could buy for one bottle of Romanée-Conti

But it's the same basic idea. It's rare, therefore it's good

>>8033439
i bet you only buy cage free eggs too you dumb fuck, nobody who rides motorcycles actually calls people cagers unironically unless they are autistic like yourself...

File: kcchickens.jpg (114KB, 640x478px)

114KB, 640x478px

>>8047221
They don't say "cage free" on them, but I just checked. I guess they are. Here's a picture of the farm.

It's the same farm that Eleven Madison Park gets their eggs from. That's a restaurant. You probably haven't heard of it because places like that make you angry.

>>8047180
>But it's the same basic idea. It's rare, therefore it's good
Ideally it works out that it's rare and good, therefore it's expensive. At least that makes sense. And that is usually the case, which makes it all the nice to find something good that's either not rare or doesn't have enough prestige for people to give a shit, so it's cheap, or at least affordable.

That stuff is out there. The problem is that it's hard to find. Because usually economies of scale undermine quality, and quality ends up made in smaller batches, so it's usually more expensive. You find those instances where it isn't and that's what you get excited about if you're not rich.

>>8046936
>/fa/ the post

>>8033364
how the fuck can't you tell red from white?
i know they did a study on this and i'm convinced 90% of people have fucked their taste and smell buds up.

>>8048457
People rely mainly on visual cues for this so they haven't trained themselves to notice the distinction

>>8048587
>>8048457
Not all reds are Cab Sauv

>>8048587
>People taste with thier eyes
Well no shit.
It's why Chef's make an effort to make food look desirable.

If we read a descriptor of some kind on a page then we've already formed a preconceived notion of how it should taste. The colour is a big factor in how we perceive something.

A blind man is the best taste tester since he has heightened senses and no bias or preconcieved notion without being told.

>>8048457
>how the fuck can't you tell red from white?

It's a matter of a quote being out of context. There were SOME cases in which the testers couldn't distinguish red from white. It was not a "general" thing that applied all the time.

>>8049376
>and no bias or preconcieved notion without being told.
That's where this article came from. They presented the tasters with wines that had either been all dyed the same color, or were served in black glasses so the color wasn't apparent to the tasters.

>>8033410
Why do I feel so good from reading that.

>>8034205
>an Aldi classic

That definitely went over the Bogan's head but Im here laughing my ass off

>>8035085
You say this while you guzzle ur $2 MadDog20/20

>>8034012
On an unrelated note, have you watched Floyd Uncorked. That guy is great and I dont even care about wine

>>8033364
it's liquid, unless you make it, there's no talent involved in drinking it and looking self satisfied about it.

>>8039193
Mosel is love, mosel is life

Wine tastes like shit anyways

>>8033782
>becomes hilariously upset and defensive about the subject of maintaining your cool

Ironic :)

>>8033364
That I don't care as much as them. I'll enjoy a dry red usually but that's it. Scotch, bourbon, craft beers are my usuals while I also enjoy messing with cocktails on occasion. Wine just leads to more hangovers for me, especially white. Even at times when my tolerance is stronger, I can have a glass of white and feel a headache within two hours. Sucks.