I just can't get my tomato base sauce right /ck/ I use

pinch of sugar.

How long are you cooking it for? My tomato sauce starts out acidic but after cooking it for long enough it gets very sweet

>>7066462
maybe I'm not cooking it long enough to bring the sweetness out of the carrots

usually I cook it for about an hour

this still leaves the question of acidity unsolved though I think

add sugar. make sure your onions are translucent.

>>7066468
The carrots give up their sweetness pretty quickly. The tomatoes start to break down and after around 2-3 hours your sauce will taste completely different.

I make a basic tomato sauce similar to what you described with good canned tomatoes and like I said it starts out acidic tasting. But after cooking it for a long time it starts to taste like I've added sugar even though I don't

Make it exactly like you usually do but cook it for a couple more hours, taste it every 30 minutes or so, because you can actually overdo it and make it too sweet. You probably need to add water a few times to compensate for evaporation.

>>7066446
are you peeling the tomatoes. If not I promise this will turn your sauce around

>>7066468
Cook it for longer, some people recommend up to 4 hours, and sugar can be useful too

>>7066459
>>7066484
>no sweet enough
>add more sugar

I don't get this, there is plenty of net sugar going in with the carrot and cellery, and ther eisn't really anything sour going in in the first place

that leads me to think it's my method that is at fault

>>7066489
>>7066492
will start trying this, I would ideally but I don't have time to sit around watching sauce for hours

>>7066491
this could be a great tip, thanks anon

when I make them in season we balance the tomatoes and take the skins off, but out of season we rely in canned

we struggle to preserve enough to last us the year

>>7066498
>I don't have time to sit around watching sauce for hours
You can slow roast your tomatoes in the oven to sweeten and concentrate the flavor and make sauce from those. It accomplishes the same thing as cooking your sauce for a long time with the added benefit of being able to mostly ignore them and not have to worry about watching a sauce for hours.

You could also speed up the process by using a pressure cooker.

>>7066446

Have you tried not putting a bunch of stupid things in it that don't belong and simmering it for long enough?

Tomato sauce consists of olive oil, cooking onion and/or garlic (sautee until clear), tomatoes (passata or canned if not fresh), lots of basil, and some salt. Cook until it tastes like tomato sauce.

>>7066446
bay leaf, fool

>>7066446
sour and acidic every time?

There's something wrong here. The only things that would add acidity are your tomatoes and the wine. Could your cookware be reacting with the tomato? Are you adding tap water at any point?

with the carrots, celery and onion, you should be pretty much guaranteed to cover your bases in terms of lack of umami from the tomatoes, sourness/past-best-before-date from the wine, and even weak garlic.

Sugar will help, but shouldn't be necessary.

Mine is sweeter (and in need of more garlic and onion) after 20 mins or so, but even a quick marinara never turns out sour for me unless I'm using green tomatoes... and even then, it's usually a reasonably pleasant flavour.

>>7066536
I can just cook the tomatoes for ages?
a pressure cooking is on my shopping list

I will look into this, thanks

>>7066566
that's all I put in asside from herbs, carrot and celery

>>7066568
got it covered anon :)

>>7066571
I'm using only tap water

maybe shiraz is too acidic, which wine would you recommend?

my suspicion is that it's the result of poor vegetable quality and short cooking times

>>7066566
This, you might be overdoing it.

For generic tomato sauce I use for Italian or Spanish dishes I just cook canned tomatoes with olive oil, salt and garlic and/or onion.

For tomato sauce for Turkish dishes like Iskender kebap I just cook canned tomatos with some butter and salt.

>>7066576
shiraz is very bitter... it may seem counterintuitive, but you can balance that out with some balsamic. I would recommend something a little more in the vein of a chianti though, and save the shiraz for fresh, ripe tomatoes that are sweet, but maybe lacking in flavour a bit.

It could be the tap water, especially if it's heavily chlorinated or fluoridated.

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>>7066576

>that's all I put in asside from herbs, carrot and celery

Oh, that's all the unnecessary and counterproductive additional bullshit you put in tomato sauce?

>maybe shiraz is too acidic, which wine would you recommend?

Wew lad.

>>7066568
meme herb

>>7066566
OP is making a bolognese sauce obviously

>>7066594
>>7066587
so no shiraz, that I can do

Purists really are the worst kind of faggot who disdain added ingredients for the sole fact that they never use them.

I like to use an extremely diced mirepoix with bell pepper for the base (skewing the mix more towards onion) with minced garlic, roasted garlic, oregano, basil, bay leaves, a little cumin, and whatever else. With a combination of beef and pork, as well as different tomatoes (the bulk canned, but some grape and sundried in the blender with it to add complex sweetness) bring it all together.

>>7066599
this
I'm adding bacon, worsteshire, mince and salami

>>7066576
>I can just cook the tomatoes for ages?
Yeah. I just cut peeled tomatoes in half, rub them with oil and seasonings and throw them in a 200 fahrenheit oven for like 6+ hours. They get really intense and sweet.

It's a really easy way to concentrate their flavor without much effort. The oven is so low I don't even check on them, I just set a timer and do something else for a while.

>>7066617
will try this when I have in season tomatoes, thanks

>>7066609
pork is underated in these type of dishes

I have some trouble though getting good quality mince, a lot of fat comes out when I cook it

>>7066446
Basic pomodoro sauce does not have garlic. garlic is for marinara sauce which is mean for seafood, hence MARinara. All you need for basic pomodoro sauce is:
>tinned whole tomatoes(blended finely)
>onion (minced)
>carrot (finely grated)
>olive oil
>basil
That's it. You only need to cook it for about 45 min, if you cook it too long the tomatoes lose their freshness and it begins to taste like jarred sauce.

>>7066446
Good base sauce has sweetness, and acid.
Mt go to is:

Garlic, onion, thyme in heated oil.
Fresh tomatoes: 4 parts
Finely chopped red bell pepper: 1/2 - 1 part
Possibly 1/2 part grated apple
Chicken stock/boullion until sufficiently salty. Black pepper or chili until you reach the desired spice level.
Fresh basil added just before it is done, and sometimes also a bit of parsley.

But really, getting your sweetness from bell peppers and sweet apples is my main advice here. If you use tomato concentrate, always add a pinch of sugar.

Nothing worse than people arguing what the 'traditional' recipe is, italians are the worst for it

>not adding roux to your tomato sauce

>>7066623
>I have some trouble though getting good quality mince, a lot of fat comes out when I cook it

Go to a butcher or half decent supermarket and ask them to grind a piece of meat of your choice, they'll do it for free.

>>7066446
Ok.
Dice the celery, onion and garlic and fry them with some olive oil. When they are done add a splash of red wine and make it dry. Then add the passata, one teaspoon of sugar and half a teaspoon of salt.
Let it simmer on low heat for something like one hour until desired thickness is achieved.

You have to reduce the alcohol content. Use less tomato.

Burn it down. Use raw tomatoes and if they don't like it then fuck em'.

>>7066929

>having to roux your sauce

Get out France.

>>7066566
>cooking basil
Get out.

>>7067099
le traditional italian way

>>7067094

In English, the fire knows the truth. You cook that shit up and if it's delicious, it is what it is.

Fuck your Mom's recipe.

>>7067100
>wanting brown basil

>>7067116
What the FUCK are you talking about? The basil goes into the sauce you dumb fat American fuck

>>7066615
Then why the fuck are you cooking tomato sauce for hours?

Sautee your root vegetables, brown meat, add liquids and your tomatoes, simmer for a couple hours, ragu.

>>7067120

Did we need an Australian telling anyone how to cook?

Basil does not need to be in any Italian sauce.

>>7066446

Just fucking cook your sauce low and slow to bring out the natural sweetness from the tomatoes, don't crank it high, don't use tomato paste and jsut cook it low and slow for about 2-3 hours, you don't need any additional sugar just time.

>>7066446

I find white wine works in general much better for cooking with tomatoes and actually most Italian dishes, even when it's something you'd typically drink a red wine with.

>>7067127
I'm not australian

>>7067127
>Basil does not need to be in any Italian sauce.

Then why does literally every italian chef ever use it in their sauces? Talking out your fucking ass you dumb cunt

>>7067127
You're a fucking idiot, son.

Unsalted butter can be used to cut acidity and mellow the sauce a bit.

From Italy here.
Here's a simple one:

Garlic, a handful of cloves
Onion, 1 large
Olive oil, about a third cup (80ml)
Salt, as needed
Wine, about a cup (240ml)
>red, white, rosé/blush or whatever; so long as it's grape and so long as it's drinkable, it's fine and doesn't even have to be some oh-so-fancy thing, either
Whole, peeled, plum-shaped tomatoes, 800g
>again, so long as it's decent quality, it doesn't matter a fig whether it's s marzano or not, so long as it's the right type (plum or roma) and of good quality
tomato juice, 200ml
>you can simplify this by just buying an 800g/28oz tin of whole, peeled plum tomatoes packed in juice rather than having tomatoes and juice separate
basil leaves, a handful fresh or a big pinch dry

Mince garlic and onion and place in a pot* with the olive oil.
Set the pot to high heat and, when fragrant, salt generously.
When the garlic starts to blond and the onion starts to turn translucent, add about a third of the wine, stir about and cook until the wine has cooked back out.
When the onion starts to brown add about half of the remaining wine, stir about and cook until the wine has cooked back out.
When the onion starts to caramelise, add the rest of the wine, stir about and cook until the wine has cooked back out; meanwhile, purée the tomatoes with the juice.
Add the purée and stir to combine.
Bring to the boil then lower the heat and reduce to a simmer.
Allow to cook, stirring occasionally, until reduced by about half its volume, about 1 hour.
Salt to taste then off the heat and stir in the basil.
There you are.


* I've found you can cut the time by as much as half (!) using a wok, sauté pan or paella on high heat instead of a pot on medium. The wider base gives greater surface area, allowing more of the sauce to both come in contact directly with the heat source as well as more surface area to evaporate out and reduce.
Problem is: ya need to stir more often or it can easily burn.

>>7066566
this

>>7067277
>what is bolognese

>this sauce is too acidic, what should I do?
>add sugar
>try adding sugar?
>cook it longer to bring out more sugar
>how about sugar

Every fucking time. You know what sugar does to acid? Piss all. Great, now you've got sweet acid. Did you want fucking sweet and sour sauce? Because that's what you just made.

Put a god damn alkali in. A pinch of sodium bicarbonate will actually change the acid into CO2 and a salt instead of just masking it with a retard candy safety blanket.

Did you all fail highschool chemistry, or have fake Italian tv chefs skull fucked the knowledge out of you?

Jesus.

get the fucking carrots and celery out of that shit homie

>>7067314
When people say acidic they mean it is tart, the solution to which is more sugar, they don't mean "this is literally a chemical acid"

go back to /sci/

>>7067316
HE'S MAKING A BOLOGNESE SAUCE YOU FUCKING MORON DON'T POST IF YOU DON'T KNOW HOW TO COOK

>>7066446
>I use carrots celery, onion and garlic
>I've tried tomato paste, tinned tomato, passata
>I use red wine, I try adding less

Try using tomatos.

>>7067320
Yeah, and what's tartness caused by, fairy piss?

>>7067329
Hi there, do you know what a bolognese sauce is

>>7067345

Hi there, have you read the OP?

>>7067356
Yes, OP refers to tomato sauce but what he means is a bolognese sauce, which you can tell by his ingredients, which are exactly what goes ina bolognese sauce

>>7067330
Exactly, and fairy piss is ammonia-heavy. So really, more acid is needed, just don't breathe too heavily.

>>7067099
>>7067116

You add some of the basil after the tomatoes have produced enough liquid that the basil will simply simmer in the sauce to release its flavour without browning, you fucking moron.

>>7067083
not wher I am, we don't have muchers, we have meat shops
all there shit is done off site

I asked for caul fat, and the guy was like "sorry we don;t have caul"
so I asked "do you have any lard"
he said "what part of an animal does that come from"

it occured to me not only did he not know what lard was, he actually thought caul was a kind of animal as well

>>7067099
this

you add it at the end as a garnish, it looses a lot of it's delicate flavor if you cook it
italians cook it, but they are wrong

>>7067127

Shut the fuck up you retarded fat American. You know NOTHING about Italian food in that fucking"fazool" and "canool" 6th generation "Italian" filled shithole

>>7067314
I was a bit mad when everyone told me to just add sugar, I even said it didn't change the net acidity

we use bicarb when we puree plums or other acidic fruit, but I'm not sure what it would do to tomato
sometimes it causes a dark brown colour and it has a bad taste in general

might try it though

>>7067324

MAYBE HE SHOULD HAVE FUCKING MENTIONED USING GROUND VEAL IF HE WAS MAKING BOLOGNESE SAUCE INSTEAD OF ASKING WHY HIS UNDERCOOKED WINE FILLED DISGUSTING BULLSHIT DIDN'T TASTE GOOD THEN.

>>7067419

How do you expect to extract the flavor of the basil into the sauce as a whole you don't simmer SOME of the basil in the sauce? Use the rest as a garnish at the end.

If you are cooking it in a cast iron pan it will come out tasting acidic and sour

Always fun to see Americans think their opinion has value

>>7066609
>"Derpy derp, I just throw everything together and call it a tomato sauce."

>>7066446
I miss that show.

>>7067475
>"I le only use le pure recipes for maestro chefs de cuisine such as myself"

>>7067484

More like "for Italians such as myself" you mongoloid Amerifat.

>>7066446
Add sugar

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>>7067602

>>7067601
>"only le traditional way is le correct way"

Use activated tomatoes

>>7067658
How do you activate a tomato?

>>7067642

Yes. Yes it is.

>>7067642
>>7067752
But whose traditional way?

Two of my line cooks used to fight over whose lunch was made incorrectly. "My nonna makes it right. Your mother's a whore - she has no business in the kitchen, only in the back of my Toyota."... shit like that.

As much as a pomodoro isn't a bolognese isn't a marinara, these are all tomato-laden sauces. If OP's base tomato sauce involves all kind of whatever, he isn't wrong to call it tomato sauce as long as it's got tomato as the base - the only thing wrong with it is that it's too tart/sour for his liking.

>>7068148
Fucking pastaniggers...

>>7066446
give it a pinch of sugar.

>>7068148
god bless the Italians

>>7066489
>carrots.

There's your issue.

Use dried Porcini mushrooms, some olive oil, and a pinch of sugar.

Carrots don't belong in fucking sauce. I'm actually you put them in. You're like the fuckers who put squash and zuchini into lasagne.

Throw some neckbones into your pan, fry the shit out of them, and boil the ever living fuck out of your sauce.

Fuck anyone who doesn't eat meat.

>>7066446

Because you're making some complex recipe. What keeps the acidity (sour flavour) in a tomato? Why is a raw tomato acidic and a dried tomato sweet?

>>7066446
use some ketchup in a combo with some tomato puree

>>7070529
>doesn't put carrots in his sauce

confirmed ameriblubber

Pork bones.
Add sugar if you have to; 1 tbsp per 2 liters of sauce won't kill anyone.
Fresh basil does wonders for cutting acidity, as does cheese.

I think a lot of people are over complicating their recipes for a simple tomato base. Here's my recipe for a basic tomato base:
- 2 medium onions (peeled and finely diced)
- 2litres tinned tomatoes (whole peeled; preferably roma or san marzano variety)
- 3tbsp tomato paste
- 3 cloves garlic (finely diced)
- 1 star anise
- 1 large bunch of basil
- 3 sprigs of thyme
- 2 bay leaves

Instructions:
1. Sweat the onions in a generous amount of olive oil over a medium low heat. The onions should be soft and translucent, approximately 10-15mins.
2. Add the star anise, garlic and tomato paste and cook till the garlic is fragrant and the tomato paste is thoroughly incorporated.
3. Add the tinned tomatoes and raise the temperature to high until the mixture comes to a boil. When it comes to a boil immediately reduce the temperature down to low and allow it to gently simmer uncovered for 2-3hrs. Stir the mixture occasionally every 15mins or so.
4. When the mixture is simmering, add the bay leaves and thyme.
5. At the end when your tomato base has finished cooking, add your fresh basil. Basil is a delicate soft herb, you add it at the end and cook it through the residual heat to maintain it's freshness and sweet flavour.

Notes:
- I know it's not traditional to add star anise to a tomato base and any purists will condemn me for it. But it really works! The flavour profile of star anise is similar to fennel, which is a staple ingredient in Mediterranean cuisine. So that background note of star anise really adds a certain depth and authentic Mediterranean taste/flavour to the sauce.

>>7072484
Anise? Really?
Interesting.

>>7066446
>celery
>carrots
>fucking wine

are you fucking retarded or a troll?