Do you think when a con reaches a certain size that they should

Sometimes fan panels are really good, most importantly, its the best way for people of similar interests to gather up and do their own thing. Its great for people to start out and maybe eventually do more professional panels later.

I don't see anything wrong with them honestly.

>>9389056
It's all on the money, the potential loser in no-fan-panels is the con, who has to dedicate money to get guests to host such things. Note, I've seen some pretty terrible guest panels so I could be a bit biased.

With fan led, and a decent amount of feedback, you can phase out or deny approval to the bad apple and lazy fan hosts, leaving the quality ones to come back for next year. Consistency is a good thing too, as bringing back people who did stuff last year that folks enjoyed can be just as good as bringing in some no-name d-lister who has nothing but time to host a panel since no one wants their autograph.

As with anything, it is all in balance.

>>9389078
SOMETIMES is the keyword. For the most part fan panels are ill prepared, awkward and waste of times.

>its the best way for people of similar interests to gather up and do their own thing. Its great for people to start out and maybe eventually do more professional panels later.

The con itself is the best way for people of similar interest to gather up and interact. Meanwhile people get the skills needed to do professional panels is through the companies themselves.

However I do agree that fan panels have their place and that's at smaller upstart cons. Anything larger than that and they should be cast aside

I wish more of the smaller conventions would weed out a lot of the redundant panels or have an age requirement for their panelists.
I'm just tired of seeing 3 or 4 "ask a homestuck/character from X" panels ran by 14 year olds over the weekend. I think that panels should HAVE to be related somehow to the content of the convention. I don't know why we still need "cosplay is not consent" panels. This isn't a health convention so why are we allowing body positivity shit in as panels?

Depending on the type of convention, sure. A lot of cons I go to are for fans, and I want to engage with other fans. So yes I want those fan panels/workshops.
Which then leads to the issue of quality. Part of it is the programming staff evaluating the content submitted, and the panelist their self on their preparation. I partly do it for the free badge, but I actually love doing panels for a subject's exposure and discussion. (I have done a panel to help with a first year's con's programming, and still paid for a badge.)
If it's all industry, its promotion and money. The con has to consider how to fill in their schedule with entertainment (paid guests, main events) besides the vendors/AA.

>>9389196
>Depending on the type of convention, sure. A lot of cons I go to are for fans, and I want to engage with other fans. So yes I want those fan panels/workshops.

A lot of times a con saying they're "for fans" do so as a means to unload many of the work onto the fans and reap the savings.

The best way for a con to cater to the fans is to be a good con and provide amazing guests and content.

Considering my local cons often have fan panel rooms at or over capacity I would say they are popular and important.

Just straight industry panels would be boring.

It IS about quality, so as long as whoever is in charge of choosing does their research and puts in a bit of effort then you can have a pretty solid mix of panels.

>>9389056
I love fan panels, and hitting up multiple panels, especially the comedic/funny ones is something I always look forward to (who CWF here?) whenever I go to Fanime
It's something that I'd been so used to doing, that when I went to AX for the first time a couple years back I was shocked at how few there were, and I seriously felt like I was missing something from my con experience when I was there.

>>9389056
I used to think it was rude to walk out after the start of a panel. Now I do it regularly. If they panelist is poor quality or not presenting material I'm actually interested in, I leave.

Fan panels could easily be replaced with social spaces for individual fandoms. Cosplay meets are already a thing at most larger cons but they do seem to push out the more casual fans. One con I was at had a tea room that had blocks for certain fandoms. It was a great way to boost their sales by giving people a relaxing way to meet other fans. This is much more inclusive than your general ask/gameshow/discuss panel for fandom X.

>>9389372
>Just straight industry panels would be boring.

That's why you have everything else in between kept in house.

>>9389473
>tea room that had blocks for certain fandoms.

That's a really good idea.

Like 11:00-12 Sailor Moon
12-1 Gintama
1-3 Attack on Titan
3-5 Final Fantasy
5-6 Voltron


ect

There are ways to improve quality without outright abolition; I walk out of some fan panels with ideas that annoyed me, but others are the highlight of the con.

Just keep around good fan panelists, and for first-timers, especially at larger cons, make sure you have a good reason to believe they know what they're doing before giving them a room.

>>9389774

Fuck how did I write "annoyed" there, I meant "intrigued". Guess I was thinking about being annoyed by shit quality.

Sorry about the brainfart.

I really enjoy a good panel or two. I'd really hate to see them go. I like doing panels as well. It just wouldn't be as fun if it were all industry.

Granted, it would be great if more conventions were a bit more stringent in selecting panels and chose more variety as well as had a way to gauge quality. This is kinda near impossible with tiny conventions though, at least. I've staffed some small cons and did panels just so that there was some more variety in programming.

>>9389473
I've been to a con that did this and it was horrible. A room full of socially awkward fans who didn't know how to interact and just stood around. Every single time too, it wasn't a cool get together like you'd imagine.

>>9389056
I am really wary about turning over to sponsor/guest panels only because I don't give a shit about dubs, and then panels just turn into "goofy shit with dub man A!", "Q + A with Japanese guests (after being forced to sit through 3 episodes of our exclusive DUB PREMIER!!)"

Also, I really like informative/lecture-style panels, and most of the great ones are made by dedicated fans of something.

>>9389126
What if they have a particular show they like that most of the con doesn't care for? Not everyone who likes anime likes the same anime. If all panels were guest-hosted, there is almost a guarantee that nothing would interest me, since most of what I like is too obscure or old, and relative guests will interest less than 10% of the con. Cons, including huge ones, usually have very little that appeals to me as it is.

We've run surveys for our con and people prefer fan panels by a huge margin. If we got rid of them there'd be a riot. It'd be nice if it was easier to weed out bad panelists but so many of them lie and then don't prepare properly.

I adore well done fan panels, if they were cancelled completely from cons I probably wouldn't bother traveling to away cons anymore unless I had an Artist Alley table.

The key to getting into good fan panels is to accept that about 50% of them suck and aren't worth your time, and about 25% of them are fucking golden gems to be treasured. Give a panel no more than 10 minutes - if it's not interesting, walk out, try a different panel. Highlight 18+ panels because those by definition HAVE to be hosted by adults, who tend to care about the quality of their panel more than tweens do.

What really needs to happen is convention staff needs to require more from panel submitters. Require a fucking outline of the panel content to submit a panel instead of a one sentence summary. Easiest way to weed out people who don't care.

(Yes, I recognize it takes more effort for staff - I'm a staffer myself and it's not something my convention is large enough to implement yet, but we've talked about it.)

>>9389774
>here are ways to improve quality without outright abolition; I walk out of some fan panels with ideas that annoyed me, but others are the highlight of the con.


That's why you keep them in house. You can simply have the convention recruit the best panels at their con in the past and even bring in others from out of state.

You still have panels delivered by fans and get rid of Russian roulette feel that regular fan panels have

>>9389816
The gaps are filled with industry guests, con staff events and the attendees. Cons that I think should do away with fan panels are ones that have sizable followings (Fanime, Katsucon, Sakuracon etc) these cons still have masquerades and the fans organize meetups and gatherings.

If your series has a sizable following then a gathering or a meetup will occur, if not then if you make one yourself then people will come

>>9389807
You're acting as if dub actors are the only guests

Industry related panels are great as you get tons of different topics about these areas

>subtitle translation and adaptation
>How to travel in Japan
>How series get licensed
>Character design lectures
>Animation demonstrations
>Music and OST compilation
>How certain promotional props are made in official cosplay

And that's not counting all the cultural stuff

All of these would be lead by individuals immersed and knowledgeable in their areas and are infinitely more useful and enjoyable that "average joe talks about series they like panel #100" you see everywhere

>>9389919
A problem I've found with more industry related panels is that they tend to be ones you go to once because they have the same predictable material. So if I went to one at x-con I'm not going to go to the one at y-con because it's the same panel. Like yes 'how series get licensed' is interesting I'm not going to watch it more then once.

Fan panels, even on the same series or subject, are different at every con. That kind of variety isn't promised with industry panels.

>>9389973
>you go to once because they have the same predictable material

This. One of my favorite guests happens to be a local dub actor solely because he makes sure to have different stuff at every panel - I remember a con where he had panels both days, and those were different as well.

Most people don't go through that trouble, tho.

>>9389056

Honestly i agree OP. most of the time fan panels are full of idiots who want to become the selfproclaimed leader of certain topics. Or theyre most groups of people who sit in cosplay and expect the fans to ask them questions in character.

There needs to be screening done to prevent shit like that.

At ALA 2017 the abridged anime panel was a disaster. Some neckbeard lead the panel as a selfproclaimed funny and comedic abridger. He couldnt even set up his laptop and ended up ranting about the anime abridged community for the whole hour. I left when it became apparent the laptop wasnt going to work.

Con need to require panelists to be fucking ready for a change

>>9390028
Run a con and find out how hard that is to enforce. You're right but it's a logistical nightmare.

>>9389915
Most cons do not list gatherings and meetups in their official schedule. This will always significantly bring down the attendance no matter where you advertise your event or how often you advertise. Only a small fraction of people actually follow forums, reddit, /cgl/, or wherever else you advertise. Many people do not know anything about what's happening at a con until they arrive and read the schedule.

I've run panels for small fandoms before, and, for some people, it is the highlight of their weekend.

Finding a way to control quality is the answer.

Some guest panels are terrible, too. Many guest Q&As have the same questions being asked over and over. There's always that one guy who asks how he can become a VA. Not to mention, guests like Vic McEggnogia have used cons for events like Sunday church services.

>>9390115
Listing gatherings and keeping panels in house sounds way easier than trying to quality control each and every submission

>>9390502
I don't think that most cons would be able to meet the demands of filling in a schedule. A big con has 100-200 fan panels, I can't see how the staff would be able to do that and even then there's no guarantee the staff would be better than regular panelists. Quality control would be just as hard at that scale.

>>9390514
Not really

Sakuracon has already reduced their fan panel slots, Anime Expo has kept their panels in house, Yaoicon severly limits their fan panels, Sac Anime has gotten rid of them and Dragoncon no longer takes them in (couldn't find any panel registration on their website but I could be wrong)

>>9389973
>>9390002
You're acting as if all the attendees are veterans. There will always be guests who will be interested in the topic for the first time as the conventions are always bringing in new people. Not to mention guests come in all shapes and variety and as such give a wide rang of content.

Fanime had a panel dedicated to old Kung-Fu movies as their guest was a huge fan of them, it's also one of the most hype panels I've been to.

I do agree with the standard flavor of guests the panels can run the same but that's where con booking should come into play. Cons should have a wide rang of guests so that that things have a lot of variety. In addition a wide guest variety runs much cheaper than trying to get all the A-listers out there

My local con is about half "social issue" panels now. It's not a small con either. Fan run panels are cancer if not properly regulated.

Cons just need to have better variety in terms of guests and programming. A good mix of industry, in house panels with unique topics, workshop type panels, and fan run panels.

I went to a con once that had separate rooms for each kind of panel? Like they had a Workshop room, a fan panel room, industry related and etc. Each with a different set up, the biggest was the industry one, the workshop room had tables, and the fan panel one was the smallest. Has anyone else seen this kind of set up?

>>9389056
You don't really have to push for anything OP. What you are asking for happens naturally anyways.

When conventions are young or small, they rely heavily on the fans to create content and draw interest. That includes filling the cons panel roster with homegrown panels and topics of interest.

When a convention gets enough attention from industry, the quality of guests and panels goes up, and the convention will naturally start including big guests and industry to make talks. The better fan panels with good content people will see will still make the grade.

It's also important for conventions to never lose their fan roots. It's what separates a convention from a trade show, unless that's what you are going for.

When conventions just become trade shows, it cuts fans off from each other and it just becomes about waiting in line to be sold product information.

>>9390628
>It's also important for conventions to never lose their fan roots. It's what separates a convention from a trade show, unless that's what you are going for.

How does a convention become a trade show? Wouldn't it still be a con as long as it has panels, shows, dealers and all those other elements?

Really I personally like cons going this way. I don't care about the average attendee I like going to cons for guests, swag, announcements and networking.

>>9390563
>Fan run panels are cancer

Fixed that for you

>>9390514
The first step would be reducing or eliminating the number of "social issue" and "ask a character" panels, since they suck most of the time.
There are cons out there which are turning into thinly-disguised LGBT dating services.

>>9390693
And I like going to meet people who like what I like in person. Cons are my only chance to do that.

Don't usually care about the guests because they're mostly either dub actors or people who works on shows I don't care about.

Don't care about swag because most dealers rooms are infested with overpriced merch and bootlegs.

Don't care about announcements because, again, it's mostly for stuff I don't care about, and for stuff I do like, I can just read them online.

Networking for me would be impossible with what you're suggesting.

>>9391015
THIS

The average joe shome panel is pretty fascinating when it doesn't hover around these subjects

>>9392134
Unfortunately getting rid of the "social issues" panels will be a difficult task because people insist that if they eliminate them, they're bigots who are being "unwelcoming" of certain community. Which is bullshit, but what can you do?

I remember there being minority panels as far back as I can remember, but it's just gotten out of hand. It's like LGBT people, POCs, and other groups need three panels each or else the con is made up of evil right-wing bigots.

>>9389056
Where are you getting the information that Sac Anime has done away with panels altogether? They've had fan panels every show I've attended, including the last one in January. Are they getting rid of them for the upcoming September show? If so, they haven't announced it officially yet as far as I can find.

>>9393506
I know the last sac anime the fan panels were gutted and looking at how everything was relating to industry/guests it really looked like the average fan submitted panel was not taken.

Looks like for the latest one fan panels are being accepted again

So what kind of panels would you like to see more of.

Or, what panels have you attended would you like to see promoted to bigger cons?

>>9389790
What fandoms were these that you personally experienced? That's what we want to know in this thread!

>>9391015
I really liked when Sakuracon just had actual speed dating, panels for both gay and straight. And then the straight speed dating panel didn't properly card everyone and they shut the whole thing down (even though gay speed dating was run by a completely different, unaffiliated group).

>>9394624
A con I've been to went a year without a straight speed-dating event at all.

Someone tried telling me that most of the women into anime are LGBT, which is a load of bullshit.

>>9394557
It was like the big name anime like DBZ, Sailor Moon, One Piece etc. and then some more recent popular ones which were mostly Western. I went to the DBZ and Cowboy Bebop and it was bad. Apparently the Homestuck kids trashed one of the rooms since they were unsupervised but that was a rumor I don't know was confirmed.

>>9395392
>leaving homestucks unattended
Not even once

>>9389056
>everyone wins through their omission
There is a loser: It's people like me, who are trying to break into the industry and need something like a panel to make a splash and establish industry connections. Now, don't get me wrong: I'm nearly 30, I know what you need to do to host a good panel, and I'm beyond thankful that I was approved. There are not many of me. But even the younger people need something to cut their teeth on. Sakura-Con is a large con, and risking your reputation on some kid's fan panel *is* kind of silly, but you gotta let at least one in. One. It will set an example for future panel applicants. Either it goes well and the fans thank ANCEA for letting it happen, or it goes bad and ANCEA holds it up as an example of what fan panels should not do. But you can't completely cut the fans off.

Smaller cons obviously need to lean on fan content, but even large cons, I feel, are not exempt from allowing them in. Something like PAX, which is technically a trade show, can exclude them just fine.

>>9390558

>Ric Meyers' Superhero Kung Fu Extravaganza

It's been a good few years since I've even seen him at the con. I'd venture to guess he's since moved on, at least from Fanime.

>>9389313

I don't agree with the sentiment, but I see what you're getting at.

Fan panels are a sort of easy way to fill in a programming block, which will make it sort of easier on staff to try to find stuff for people to do because they end up doing it on their own, but now in some sort of "official" capacity where staff won't have to throw as much money at it, which is all fine and good. However, people are paying good money to go to these things which leads one to wonder what bang people are really getting out of their buck. Industry panels stand on their own, but I would imagine that the resources for those are finite and are really just modes of shilling more than anything.

Finding the happy medium between the two is the trick.