Replicas

Only replica item I've ever owned was that one pair of white Baby socks that everyone and their mother has. Got them for $7 and they're nice quality. I don't agree with most print or design replicas, but they're just white socks so I said fuck it.

I've never taken part of the replica debate but I have an honest question. Why are some people ok with design replicas but not print replicas? Most people say that it is because print replicas are illegal and design replicas are not, but is legality the only reason? I know some people do not equate morals and legal rules but I would think that most people would be either against replicas completely or for all replicas. I always found it very strange and people were ok with some replicas but not others.

>>9346806
Designs are too vague to copyright or get really fussed over someone "copying." I mean can you imagine if someone copyrighted pintucked blouses? That's the kind of shit we'd deal with if there were design copyrights. Plus everything has basically been done, fashion wise. There are only so many cuts that fit the human body in a comfortable and/or flattering way.

On the other hand, prints are someone's art and if you make an image, legally, it belongs to you.

>>9346791
>print replicas
99% of the time unnecessary in the year of our mana-sama 2017

>design replicas
at least TRY to make them different form the original. blatant rip-offs aren't kawaii, but drawing obvious inspiration from another design is sometimes unavoidable in a fashion where very specific details are prioritized and sought after

>experience with print replicas
the people who defend them most ardently generally tend to be the most annoying people to be around in general so I see them as a red flag but not necessarily a deal-breaker
example:
"I wore my MCD replica to the carnival meetup just in case I accidentally spill something on it because I'd hate to ruin my original!"
vs.
"like WHO CARES if it's a replica, it doesn't even affect the BIG BURANDO anyway and it's not like art theft is even a real thing. If I want a print I'm gonna get my hands on it no matter who I have to fuck over!!!"

>experience with design replicas
meh. it only really feels socially unacceptable in the presence of the original designers who might feel disrespected, but outside of that I don't really care. I would be very judgy if they're blatant rip-offs that someone is trying to pass off as the original though.

>>9346822
Exactly. It's like saying whoever designed black leggings is the only person that can manufacture and sell them.

Replicas make it harder for the companies that the art originated from to make money. The replicas can lead to brands having to increase prices to compensate for lost profit. Your huge mainstream fashion houses don't really feel as much an effect because they can sell an item for thousands of dollars. (I'm not justifying mainstream fashion houses having their designs ripped off in any way.) The brands selling lolita generally cannot sell their products for thousands of dollars so it affects them more.

I'm not going to bitch at someone for wearing a replica, nor am I going to oust them for being honest if someone asks if it is authentic.

If they speak condescendingly to those who do buy authentic products spouting, "I don't get why you pay so much when a replica is just fine," that's a little messed up.

On the other hand you have some who are humble about the fact they have replica products. Like one person said, when it comes to white socks with lace, that's not exactly a unique design.

>>9346822
But that isn't the point of my question? What I'm asking is if it's purely a legal standpoint or a moral one. So is the only reason someone supports design replicas because of laws? Because I know that there are people who are against any replicas for moral reasons.

>>9346899
/Thread

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>>9347001
Aesthetic as well. Replicas often miss the mark in one way or another visually, and may give a dress a bad name. Whether it be shit fabric bad cut job, or fucked print.
hi
>ugh, it looks like THAT irl? Sheesh...

>>9346791
Tbh, with print "replicas" I just don't really see the point. And I write replica in ''', because I don't see the point in calling them replica - and not fake - either. It doesn't make it less fake only because it's a fake with announcement.

I know, some people argue stuff like "I want the print, but it doesn't come in my size!", but I don't think you're entitled to a certain fabric and you're also not entitled to stuff being designed for your body shape unless you specifically pay for custom sizing.

When it comes to design, it obviously depends on how detailed the design is. Most stuff I own has a pretty basic design, so calling something with the same design a "design replica" would kinda be like calling any pencil skirt not made by the original designer of pencil skirts a replica. On the other hand, I wouldn't really want to buy something that puts lace / ruffles / bows etc. in the exact same very specific place as a well known brand item with the overall same design.

>>9347001

>>9347001

Legal and moral.

It's always possible that someone decides to make a dresss that does ~not~ look like Meta's pintuck jsk by taking away the pintucks, adding sleeves, some lace, and hey presto! It's now accidentally a Mary Magdalene knockoff. Because it's all common design elements, it's really easy to sit down, throw some elements together, and have the resulting design look similar to some other non print design purely by accident.

The moral standpoint here is to not punish the innocent mistakes alongside with the deliberate art thefts. How far that goes is the difficult part to argue, obviously the Secret Shop tea parties were originally marketed as an alternative to AP tea parties, but that doesn't mean that every secret shop shoes with straps are necessarily a replica. The other is Milk's heart bag, the shape is really distinct, but it's equally arguable that there's only so many methods of attaching handles to a heart shape, so every bag that sort of looks like a Milk bag isn't necessarily a ripoff either.

There's no such argument with print replicas. No two artist is going to sit down and coincidentally, by some cosmic work of telepathy, create exactly two illustrations that are exactly similar down to the colour, shape, shading, even the distance between elements. And then, when they're done designing their coincidental original artwork, instead of signing their own name, they decide to sign it "Angelic Pretty".

It's not so much that we turn a blind eye to design replicas, it's that print replicas are so blatantly art theft, there's really no way to argue that it can be anything else other than art theft.

>>9346791
I really don't see the appeal of replicas after buying a few ones when I discovered lolita.

Inexperienced newbies might think it's a good deal but the quality simply isn't there and you're more likely to be fucked over than with brands (misleading pics, damages etc)

Nowadays some replicas seem to be of higher quality but so is the price. What's the point of buying two replicas for the price of a brand dress, or a new replicas instead of a second-hand one ?

Plus it's not like brands aren't churning nice prints more frequently now, it's also way easier to access with stores in Paris & SF and Shopping services.

Also as a graphic designer I often had work that was ripped off and my logo replaced with another and that's plain infuriating. Don't encourage thieves thanks.

>>9347001
You missed my point then. You can't own a clothing design because it's all been done before. There are only so many ways to design a dress with a full skirt and shoulder straps and polkadots. Just because one brand makes a dress like that, and then Bodyline makes a very similar design, does not mean the design originated with Company A. Likely they got their inspiration from some other design and copied most of it, which in turn was a copied and slightly altered design of a previous time, and so on and so forth. Designs come in vogue and fall out of vogue, it's all a cycle.

Prints are unique art and belong to the artist who made them. Idk why you get so hung up on the legality of it. It's not just "because legality" it's because of morals too. Plagarism is the part that's bad, not the part where someone prints their book on a similar paper with the same color binding.

>>9346791
Replicas are cheap pieces of shit that allow entitled twits to invade the fashion. Buy offbrand, buy second hand, save up, buy fewer dresses.

I have no respect for replica-chans. I've seen one replica that approximated the brand original and it's only because the original was not all that complex or detailed.
This has been a debate since it started, it will not die because there will always be those of us who say, " nope" and reject replica-wearers.

Design copies are a non-issue but guess what? I don't like those either. Either you have the money, patience and ingenuity that it takes to do this fashion correctly or you are just a sad fake trying to tag along.

>>9346806
Just fyi, in Europe it's not uncommon that also design replicas are banned. It's true that no one is able to get a copyright to single motif like pintucks but, for example, teaparty shoes are an unique design. It's illegal for me to import any fakes printed or not, including shoes amd bags.

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>>9346791
I'm fine with design replicas if it's generic enough, like socks or tea parties. Things like dress design replicas it depends. If it's a very obvious ripoff, then no, but if it's a basic, solid jsk or something that's inspired by but not entirely copying I'm not bothered because no one really owns the 'full skirted dress with lace trim' design. Print replicas and obvious design ripoffs are tacky and I will judge. It's art theft and shows a selfish lack of understanding and appreciation of a Lolita is about: grace and quality. Plus for the price of a replica you can get brand dresses used so it shows retardation and I don't associate with retarded thieves.

>>9347426
This. It's also really annoying that some sales groups still allow knock-offs. It's embarassing.

With so many nice Taobao dresses and some good indie designers making both lower priced and more custom sized items, any arguments for replicas just sound like lame excuses for overly-entitled people. And yes, I judge that.
There are enough comparison photos on the web to clearly determine that most replicas are poor quality and they also do not hold their resale value.

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I don't give a shit if people wear replicas. I believe the existence of replicas actually had a positive effect, since it made AP realize the market is way bigger than they thought, they started making re-releases, MTOs, larger sizes (us fatty-chans can't say brand doesn't fit them anymore), more stock.

I'm like 99% certain that pic related triggered the Holy Lantern re-re-re-releases and MTO.

The brand wasn't getting the $600 from the resales. There was a huge demand. They finally got it, gave us what we wanted, and made money off of it.

Look at Baby. No one makes replicas of those anymore because they have a reservation period.

>>9347946
I wish AP had made a blue Holy Lantern, I love this colorway.

>>9347530
> teaparty shoes are an unique design
They are only Mary Janes tho, it's rather the sole that AP uses that is unique.

Tbh, replica bags don't bother me because like anyone could have made up a pleather purse that looks like a strawberry, you know?
Replica shoes bother me if they're of a really specific design, but if they're like tea parties, not so much.
Replica dresses are a reee from me, though.

>>9346791
I'm guilty of owning some AP chiffon print replicas to wear to work. I help out at an after-school program and some of the kids like them, but I don't want to risk getting paint/ink/food/etc. on burando. I would never wear them to a meet or any outing aside from work though, because it's pretty easy to tell they're fake.

>>9348273
What about replicas like the melty moon bag?

>>9346899
came here to post the dead horse gif a million times

>>9348291
I should be mad about replica bags but my brand bags fall apart faster than my knockoffs. I think that charging $100-$150 for a purse made out of shitty materials by brand is unreasonable as well, but ymmv.

Like most people, print replicas are a no go in my opinion. Unless the person is new to the fashion and didn't know better, I definitely side eye replica-chans, but I don't care enough to bring it up or embarrass them and actually think it's quite tacky to do so. I've known girls who would just straight up ask lolitas they don't know if they were wearing replicas, even when they clearly weren't, and it was always so fucking cringe-worthy and awkward. If you have to call someone out about it, try to find a tactful way to do it and be 100% sure that they're wearing a replica.

Design replicas, I don't really care about. You can only make a heart bag or shoes with bows/glitter/pearls so many ways. I have a couple design replicas in my closet that I bought when I was new and didn't know about knockoffs that I want to get rid of, and I want to try to avoid buying knock offs from here on out just because I'll feel better about my wardrobe, but for others who have them, I couldn't care less.

>>9348355
Also, this. I'll be more likely to encourage people to buy brand over a design replica when brand bags (and often shoes) are actually worth the money and don't fall apart just as fast as the fakes.

i'm a tall lolita, and i'll get skirt replicas occasionally if and only if the length of the brand skirt will be way too short on me to ever wear as lolita. for example, it would be impossible for me to wear the mcd skirt in lolita without being totally lewd, and i'm not paying 200 for a skirt i'd just wear as normie clothing when i can get it for a quarter of the price.

i try to make up for this by buying direct from brand as much as possible instead of doing second hand. i think if you don't actively support brands by buying direct and only ever buy secondhand, you don't really have much of a dog in the replica fight anyway.

and who gaf about design replicas lol

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I hate replicas. All replicas. Using designs as an inspiration is not making a replica, but if it's meant to be either an exact or very close copy, then it is.

I take pride in everything I own being authentic, even down to those oh-so-common BtSSB OTKS or AP's Tea Party Shoes.

I find that those who vehemently defend their ownership of replicas tend to be the least tolerable to me. My outlook is that the world isn't fair, and nobody is entitled to whatever they want. So in a very unnecessary fashion hobby, I see those who turn to replicas as immature.

I would be horrified if I realized that I unknowingly bought a replica (again, not something that just takes inspiration) and I apply my ideas on replicas to myself. I will never turn and have never turned to replicas if something did not fit or I could not find it. If it doesn't fit, I alter it, as everything I purchase is something I intend on always keeping; a sunk cost.

I'm satisfied that way. I am also aware that my thinking on the subject is rather steadfast, and that others may disagree either in part or wholly, but I feel I should make it known to those who rely on replicas who happen to be reading that there is most certainly someone judging you silently when they notice your inauthenticity. I would never make this known in person as I still do have some discretion. :)

>>9348404
Ok, as someone who hates replicas, you sound insufferable

>>9348417
I am aware. You'd never know it since I never let anything on, but the thoughts in my mind are depressing, hateful, cringey thoughts. But I don't think there is anyone and I don't plan on there being anyone other than my SO who can stand my way of thinking, so I'm not worried about anyone getting close enough to me to realize how torturously annoying I am.

>>9348422
Hwc is that you?

In any case this is pretty much my opinion on replicas as well, but I don't indulge in hateful cringed yhoughts, more just icy dismissal. And I'm happy with my outlook and buying my brand socks! (I really like cute brand OTK!)

It's not my job to police others so no, I'm not rude to replica-chans but yep, I'm judging and I don't want to become friends.

As someone who has been into Lolita for a long time, it's weird seeing the opinion on replicas change. I remember when no one cared about Montreal replicas, or Secret Shop, those were fine. But then Bodyline replicated fruits parlor and everything went balls to the wall crazy. Replicas got to a point where dresses were being replicated as soon as they came out, they were everywhere. And now the opinion has gone all the way to the opposite end of the spectrum, where if you aren't wearing brand socks and brand shoes you're trash.

I used to be a replica-chan, when I was young and stupid. Then I started buying brand and became a replica hater. Now print replicas are mostly a thing of the past, and those are wrong, no doubt about that. But who cares about shoe and design replicas? Especially if it's a dress that isn't re-released and therefore the brand isn't losing money, like a replica of the velvet AP Carnival dress, or certain older pieces that aren't prints. I see no issue with replicas of those, originally that's why print replicas were made, because AP wasn't doing rereleases back then.

tl;dr print replicas are bad, don't really care about the rest

>>9348457
Err I don't know what HWC stands for so I'm guessing not lol

>>9348422
>>9348404
You have to be 18+ to use this site, edgelord

Buyer's attitudes had a little bit to do with that. In between Fruits Parlour and now, there was a time when the replicas were of popular prints, and most buyers were just grateful to be able to get a copy of their dream dress for less than three times retail. Replicas were pretty okay then.

But as soon as we got into every dress being replicated territory the newer lolitas were responding to new releases with "wow i love it but I'm going to wait for the replica", and "serves the brands right for making cute adorable dresses that don't come in size 6XL and cost $50 because even fat poor people need lolita dresses." That's probably when most girls started becoming uncomfortable with lolita turning into a replicas hobby.

Honestly, I've always viewed the debate over shoes and bags as the replica-chans lashing back. It seemed like they were using non print replicas to say "if I can't have my cheap fakes then you can't have your cheap shoes either." iirc the replica-chans were demanding that cgl prove they don't download music or scans either, which is pretty dumb, because none of that is going to change that replicas are illegal and egl would still have enforced the ban because supporting replicas can result in egl being shut down. Really, I think the one thing those replica supporters succeeded at, is in leaving behind an impression that replica-wearers are loud, entitled brats who throw shit in every direction possible when told that they can't have their way. Which goes a long way to explain why replicas are so shunned now, they bring back memories of long, bitter arguments where you start out explaining that art theft is art theft and by the end of the thread you're trying to explain your music library to some entitled, angry stranger, who, upon finding out you don't download music, proceeds to look for whatever else they can destroy. All because you told them not to post fakes on an online forum.

>>9348518
Your joke has no substance and confused me for a minute rather than making me laugh. We were having a discussion, not arguing like children as some tend to do. Do you always think anyone you disagree with on the internet is underage? You may want to reflect on your own behavior in reference to your post...

I own a Michael Blessing replica if someone has the original I can take some photos so there can be a comparation

>>9346791
What I want to know is why did you start this thread, without giving your own opinion, when the opinion of the general lolita community is already well known

>>9348862
they asked, 'do you judge' and 'do you have comparisons' so I assumed they want to see if they can get away with it.

>>9348355
Maybe I'm abnormally gentle or you're abnormally rough with bags, but I've never had much of a problem with bags (or shoes) falling apart or being damaged. The only bag that happened to was a Bodyline bag that I got second hand. The handles just ripped right off over time. On the other hand, I've a bag by Mary Magdalene I use everyday for work. It holds up amazingly well, and I believe it may be leather? Worth the price tag in my opinion.

I've had the middle of a bow on an Innocent World shoe unglue and uncurl, making the bow floppy, but a little dab of hot glue fixed that easy. Other than that, none of my brand shoes have had problems. My offbrand shoes have been pretty bad though. I have a pair of heels that has pearls along the front that were apparently a single string glued in one spot, so when that string broke, I had pearls everywhere. I've tried to fix that pair but I lose a pearl nearly every time I wear them. I've also had a pair of shoes that had the adjustment holes on the straps too far up when they arrived new, and had to punch lower holes to move the clasp to do that the straps would actually close around my feet.

But my experiences are obviously anecdotal and I'm not sure they can be considered evidentiary towards any conclusion about the quality of brand vs non-brand.

I don't find any type of replica morally objectionable. I make a few "replicas" myself, mostly for brand knit items and I generally change an element or colour. I don't make money off it though, just make them to wear or gift friends/family. A lot of these clothes are overpriced for the quality they offer anyway so I'm not gonna cry over a company that makes huge profits failing to rip off a customer or two.

Maybe I'm just really biased but I hate replicas in general and silently judge others for having them.

>>9348918
I believe that 'Dislike and quietly judge' is the generally held idea most people have about them, honestly. They just do not weigh in on the discussions much, and put their emphasis on the silent judging. I speak my opinion against them (politely) so people just know where I stand on the issue. I don't like being asked to give concrit or comment on people's coords with them and if I am honest about my dislike for replicas up front then people wearing them just don't ask my opinion.

>>9348857
OK I'll take the bait

Your holier than thou attitude and the way you're typing is what makes you seem like a try hard underaged individual, not the disagreement. The last time I tried to type like that, I was 14, you're just coming across as extremely ~refined~ and it's obnoxious, it seems like you came in here expecting asspats.

>>9348870
I appreciate your input! I haven't had brand shoes, I've only read reviews like yours.

The issue I run into with bags (looking at you, Innocent World) isn't the handles falling off, but the peeling plastic shit, AP as well. Meanwhile my off brand Long Ears Sharp Ears bags are holding up great, same with my western bags.

>>9348870
I mostly have Bodyline and offbrand shoes but I got a pair of Meta platform boots recently and I accidentally tripped while wearing them once. After that both of the shoes had the sole coming loose slightly, making me scared to wear them. I brought them to a cobbler but I'm honestly unsure if they can be fixed, as the soles haven't completely let go yet. Still, I expected the shoes to hold up a little bit better. Scuffs and such are inevitable and can be prevented by being careful for the most part, but something like the sole coming loose is just a sign of bad construction.

>>9348422
>>9348404
is this why teachers tell you not to use a thesaurus when you write? i didn't think people actually did the word vomit shit but i guess they do
wait till you're 18 to post buddy

I had both the original celestial jsk and a replica celestial jsk. The differences were noticeable if you were looking at the dresses side by side, but not much when they were worn. The main visible issue between the two JSKs was that the overlay on the replica had less volume, and bubbled out at the hem a little bit when you wore it with a petti. The lace attached to the overlay also made the sheer fabric pucker a little. The overlay itself was also a different sheer material; it was a little rougher than the original. The inner lining were different fabrics as well, and the laces used in general were not as crisp (the detailing was just a little bit thicker than the original lace, so the designs looked a little chunky). The buttons were also slightly different, and seemed a little cheaper. However, the actual chiffon that was printed, the bodice, straps, were all almost exactly the same. No one could tell which was the fake when I wore them, even when having the real and the fake side by side.

>>9348404
>AP's Tea Party Shoes.
Except when you spend the money for authentic ones and they fucking crack like cheap bodyline shoes 2 hours into wearing them.

Never again.

>>9349179
I'm not completely sure what to say. I don't think it's a negative thing to use more specific words to properly describe one's thoughts. I also don't think the average high school or middle school student would bother with using not only correct punctuation and proper grammar, but using a wider range of word choice. I find it unfortunate that you react to my writing style with, in my opinion, lazy attempts at hurting my feelings instead of reacting to the substance of my post with your own argument or perspective on the matter. At the very least, an explanation for the reason behind your negative reaction would be if more use, such as with:

>>9349060
As I related earlier, I am aware of my own personality, so I can safely say "asspats" were actually the last thing I expected.

My purpose for posting was to discover what other people would think of my opinions on the topic of replicas in an environment enabling me to express myself freely, truthfully, and openly. To an extent, that purpose has been fulfilled...

The way I write is largely the way I think, so to express myself freely is to write in that manner. You now have me thinking on the difference between appearing to pretend to be refined and appearing to actually be so...
I enjoy expanding my vocabulary and taking the time to utilize and appreciate more than only the most basic components of the English language, so from my perspective, it is unfortunate that you stopped trying to better yourself in that area when you were that age. It is new to me for someone to say that I appear to have an arrogant attitude in writing, so I am grateful for you mentioning your inference.
The lesson I take from this conversation is that not only do I need to simplify my speech so others are not offended and are able to understand me, but also make my writing "ordinary" during discussion for the same unfortunate purpose (or perhaps return to lurking as usual since my thoughts seem unappreciated here).

>>9349351
i dont get what anons are fussing about youre not even using particularly esoteric words. im getting the feeling that this board is more and more filled with whiny 16-17yr olds as time goes on

>>9349351
*"of more use"
Oh how I love mobile keyboards and autocorrect.

I'll take this time to say:

I apologize if I angered you with my speech patterns or my opinions. Perhaps against your hopes, I do not share your emotions, nor have any toward our discussion other than disappointment.

I am tired of explaining my outlook on the way I communicate, so the best response you could reasonably hope for from me as of now would be only an affirmation I've read your own response, whomever you (you, plural?) are.

I hope you feel better (if you're feeling bad) and enjoy the rest of the board.

>>9349351
I agree with your opinions on replicas and I also think it is a shame that your well-thought-out post was taken apart and the writing style you chose to use held up to ridicule, ignoring the substance, your actual opinion. I enjoyed reading your post. Please do not let the more salty among us draw you off topic and bait you over this, it really is not worth the time it takes to reply when their goal is simply ridicule.

>>9348933
I agree. If put in a situation requiring me to critique an outfit including a replica, especially a print replica, (and luckily this hasn't happened) I would not know how to respond. I don't like hurting others' feelings but I also want to be honest. It's an uncomfortable situation.

>>9349326
Wow WTF. It seems to be hit or miss with brand shoes. I know that and keep it in mind when shopping, which is why I tend to go secondhand with shoes or bags. That's the price range I'm okay with if they do happen to kill themselves when I get/use them.

I'm curious, how/where did they split?

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>>9349351
oh my god, please shut up

>>9348279
This sounds pretty reasonable.
>>9348355
This.
>>9348366
Hey, you put effort into giving back to the burando.

>>9349375
please tell me its bait

>>9349366
It did happen to me. I was asked by a new friend what I thought of her Oo Jia piece and the fake piece was unfortunately replicated from my favorite brand. It was indeed awkward but I gently told her I did not support replicas so I did not care for the piece nor any of Jia's work. We remained reasonably friendly to each other but at a remove. She bought a few more replicas but did not ask my opinion, nor did I give it. I decided to make my opinion generally known on replicas and I have not been asked since, thankfully.

>>9349372
Towards the crease where your foot/toe area bends. I wasn't doing anything too crazy, got in my car, drove 15 minutes down the road, walked around for about an hour or two, looked down and noticed the coating was cracked.

They were NWT in the box too.

I have some secret shop tea parties that cracked like this after multiple wears. Honestly the quality is not anything different. I'll probably buy brand shoes again but I think I'll only be buying the enamel ones. If I'm paying that much they'd better stand the test of time. I have some offbrand shoes that have held up better than most lolita-specific shoes.

brand or nothing.

I am surprised print replicas are even allowed in the hobby venues and groups. If you joined a luxury car club with a fake one, they would show you the door. If in a designer purse forum and you post a fake, banned! If you have a bootleg BJD, you aren't allowed to show them in many forums, groups or to bring them to many doll meets.

We know to ban ALL print replicas from brand events out of courtesy to the designers present but what about courtesy to all of us who buy legit and these replicas are a cheap slap in the face?

So why do we, as a hobby, still allow print replica s to be worn to events and meets at all and have not cracked down and said "Legit or Quit"?

>>9349351
>>9349360
>I am tired of explaining my outlook on the way I communicate
After writing almost 500 words for a simple reply, I'd be tired, too. Literally nothing you wrote was incomprehensible; your writing style isn't as elevated as you think it is. It's just board culture. Writing like this is obnoxious and makes you look like a tryhard. Most of us do learn this at a young age, especially when communicating online. I wonder what kind of hole you live in to not have discovered this yourself before now if you're indeed an appropriate age for this board.

In short, gtfo of here with this verbosity

I have one, bought second hand. When I reach my weight goals I plan on buying the real thing and turning the rep into pillow cases or something like that.

>>9349351
>The way I write is largely the way I think

This is the problem. You're on a message board, the idea is to have a clear, concise discussion with people, not word-barf your stream of consciousness. "More complex" does not automatically mean "better." Seriously, read up on purple prose, you are a walking example.

I think replicas are a nono, even for bags (but there's enough offbrand that works p well with Lolita so why even bother with either brand or replica?)

Anyway for shoes, I'm a European 40/41 and have to pretty much rely on bodyline. I've once tried on a pair of second hand btssb platforms that fit me, but price x quality was totally unrelated.

My friend wore her AATP shoes for the first time at a meet and part of the heel broke. I'm anti replicas but honestly i don't give a damn about shoes. I owned some AP shoes and they were barely any better than my taobao ones so... I heavily judge anyone buying a replicated dress though, even with the "but i'm poor/too fat" shitty excuse. Save some money or lose weight you entitled twat, deal with it. Especially if they spend money eating out,buying weeb shit,... then complain about "b.but no munnies for luhliduh" i have absolutely no sympathy for them.
Lolita is serious business, not a costume for a day or two.

>>9349351
You elaborate your words too much to say your point. It is irksome. It's kinda like listing to Sheldon cooper try and tell you how to make coffee. It makes you sound like you don't really know the language your speaking so you are describing it more then it needs to be. Hence why someone called you housewife-chan.

For those posting about broken brand shoes/bags, might be relevant to the story if you also posted whether you bought them secondhand (even if BNWT) or during a sale, or if it's just old.

Pleather generally breaks down and peels over time. So if you're sticking to secondhand/sales items brand can appear lower quality, but in reality the item you bought has had an extra 6 months of sitting in somebody else's storage, maybe a hot room, which would accelerate the peeling. Whereas the knockoff/taobao bags you bought were fresh from the factory so the pleather is still supple.

Just a thought. I'm in the camp of my brand holding up much, much, much better than my non brand. I'd honestly rather go for higher end non lolita brand shoes and bags than argue over which lolita brands don't suck, though.

>>9349778
>buy high quality non lolita bags and shoes
This. why is this so hard? Lolita bags tend to be made with a specific theme in mind and that alone. They probably shouldn't be used over and over for something like school or going out every day. Brand bags are made with a coord in mind almost always.

Lolita shoes, similarly, don't tend to be made for daily use or heavy wear. You definitely can try to use them like that, even in snow, rain, and on hot pavement, but I wouldn't recommend it. Some have surprising longevity, but I chalk it up more to luck more than anything. Nothing is going to beat 300 leather shoes from a reputable shoe brand or a well-made bag not for purely aesthetic purposes.

>>9349788
I'm so confused when people complain about brand shoes and bags because I have never faced a problem with them. Baby's shoes seem worse quality than AP, for example, but I have never gotten a complete disaster even I mostly buy second hand. Baby's biggest problem for me has been comfort. They just don't have enough padding on the sole and the material seems to fray a bit easier than other brands. Antaina is still pretty bad compared to Baby but I find them equally comfortable. I'm super hard on my shoes and bags and have never been able to damage them however in the long run especially with cheaper shoes the quality really stands out. And Meta is pretty much the best, so comfy and I find them good for the price. Only shoes I will be buying new.

>>9349351
>The lesson I take from this conversation is that not only do I need to simplify my speech so others are not offended and are able to understand me, but also make my writing "ordinary" during discussion for the same unfortunate purpose (or perhaps return to lurking as usual since my thoughts seem unappreciated here).

No one thinks the language you use is too complicated to understand. You over explain and use long words for the sake of making yourself appear more intelligent, not for the sake of clarity or for the ease of the reader or because it comes naturally to you. You also use words incorrectly or unnaturally because they are longer or more complicated, betraying how much you actually grasp the language.

In short, your writing makes you come across as conceited and try hard, arrogant and show offish with little substance to back it up - you're not a naturally eloquent person, and that's plainly obvious from your writing.

>>9349351
You sound like a twat. A twat that is trying way too hard.

>>9349864
TY. You have successfully summed up why they sound like such a twat.

>>9349864
Ha, exactly this. Eloquence means your words are a pleasure to read, not that people get pissed off just looking at your sentence structure.

>>9349462
>>9349646
>>9349776
>>9349864
>>9350041
>>9350061

Fucking thank you

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Can we get this thread back on track? For you replica wearers: do you also support rip offs of brands like Automatic Honey?

Do newer prints get replicated. All I see are popular prints from a few years ago still getting replicated

>>9349406
I used to have a pair of black tea parties, they started peeling crumbling apart after one wear. I dont think I'll buy brand shoes ever again after that.

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>>9349351

>>9352753

The most recent print is British Bear, I think.

But you do have to ask the question, what has brand made after that that's worth replicating? AP is having back-to-back sales and lucky packs right now, none of their prints except British Crown sold out, Baby/AatP has their sale still up as well and a similarly bad sales streak. Some of AP's stuff hit the 10k yen mark, which is even cheaper than the replicas. I think the replica-makers are all standing to the side congratulating themselves for not making a loss replicating them.

>>9352753
That's because rereleases used to be rare. People used to go to replicas if they lost hope of finding the real deal for under $500. Poorfags bought them back then, too, but they weren't the only ones. Now it's only cheapskates and newbie itas.

>>9348862
OP here, let me finally give my opinion.

I think print replicas look like trash but honestly if somebody wants to wear them, whatever. They'll just look like trash, but it's not like there aren't plenty of people decked out in brand who also look like trash, so whatever. I'm not morally against replicas, I just think they're ugly.

I'm all for bag/shoe replicas. I own brand bags and brand shoes and the quality is shit. I see no reason not to buy replicas of shoes/bags from now on.

Serious question gulls.
I have an original AP dress (Melty Chocolate in pink),along with the matching socks,accessories,...all by AP as well. But i can't find the goddamn headbow anywhere and I need it for a coord to twin with a friend for the con coming.
Should I buy a replica bow until i find one or would that be shit/make me look cheap or ita?

>>9356290
It'll risk making the rest of your coord look ita. Coord with generic brown accessories of the right color instead and never give your money to shitty replica makers like that.

>>9356290

afaik Melty Choco doesn't have quality replicas. So you definitely need to take apart the headbow and reconstruct it, just to not look like shit in that headbow. It's easy if you're crafty, though, the bigger concern is whether the replica is true to colour or whether there's some undertones that completely clash with the originals you're going to wear them with, which isn't a fixable problem.

You'll also want to talk things over with your friend. She might care about having her reputation smeared since people may speculate that if the headbow is a replica, then everything in the pic is probably replicas. Or she might care more about having photos with headbows instead. Depending on her colourway and how much time you have I think it's much easier to track down some plain bow clips and matching chocolate accessories, but you do need to coordinate with her, so do let her know what's up.

>>9356290
You know what people against replicas will say already. No print replicas means "no print replicas". There is no special reason that makes them them ok, no exception. Not twinning, not a con, not to complete a set. Not sure why you'd want to throw your nice almost full-AP coord under the bus by wearing a piece of fake trash square on your head. Wear something else this time, keep looking for the bow, you'll find it eventually.

Anyone else think print replica's should be banned from CoF posts? Like maybe if people got less validation they might maybe stop thinking they're ok?

>>9356773
yes ban the fluffers!

>>9356773
Yes. People are still going to wear them but it would be very nice to have CoF free of them.

>>9356889
I feel like it sends a message that they're ok so long as communities like CoF allow them. I don't like the image it gives "western lolitas."

>>9356895
I don't either. I like the idea of banning them in any venue, group or place that we want to emphasize the artistic, elegant aspects of lolita because as long as replicas are allowed, it's a slap in the face to the artists, brands and designers. I bet most Japanese lolitas will never wear one.

>>9356773
But how would that work? If we ban design replicas, like socks, bags, hair accessories and shoes, there'll probably be only a handful of girls.

>>9356902
Quality not quantity?

>>9347426
so you're basically saying handmade is not allowed? Why does magazines like otome no sewing exist then?

>>9356915
Or even GLB, with patterns.

>>9346791

>What do you think of print replicas?
Garbage
>Design replicas (tea party shoes, etc)?
Shoes and purses are fine. If you have big feet, its better than wearing normalfag shoes.
>Experience with print replicas?
Bought one a long while ago. regretted it instantly once I bought the real thing.
>Design replicas?
My design replica shoes have been a godsend, my design replica dresses have been a mistake.

>Do you judge girls for wearing print or design replicas?
If they're young and dumb, they're probably stubborn and just need to learn their own mistakes. if they're older and wear them, they probably weren't serious about lolita to begin with, and should be treated as such. even ones who are plus sized/tall. there are other ways now unlike back in the day when lolita was just getting big. so many custom indie brands, literally no excuse.

>>9356903
implying full brand = quality. There are lots of shitty coords with no replica at all.

>>9356902
Not design replicas, just anything with an art print, mascot copy or logo. That has bend the accepted standard for years.
There would be more girls than you think. Many of us have a 'no print replicas' standard. And yes, quality over quantity. If CoF will never ban print replicas, I wish there was a FB coord posting group that banned them.
In before 'elitist', plenty of second-hand, indie, taobao and other off-brand sources for budget lolita pieces exist.

>>9356915
Hand made is fine, the only thing most people really object to is print replicas.

>>9356923
Quality of the members as in "not low-class replica-chans".

>>9356928
>There would be more girls than you think.
I'm totally in for "no print replica", and I also take part for the "no any kind of replica", but I always wonder about these I mentioned.

There's also the "legal replica", which I never really understood.

>>9356773
I think no print replica is enough, we don't even have that on CoF.

I think a lot of girls would appreciate a 'no print, mascot or logo replica' coord posting group.

what is the worse replica?

>>9356946
Any print replica. They are all the same thing, a rip off. I think the worst quality thing I've seen though is when oo jia got some mis-printed, faded replica fabric, made stuff anyway and sold them on a discount. So an even cheaper factory second quality of a ripped off print. Or maybe the time her rip-off of moitie cross lace was so cheap, shredding and terrible but she used it anyway.

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Could anyone help me check if these tights are Replica? I once bought some pretty tights just to discover later that the they were a replica from Grimoire. Don't want to make that mistake again lol

>>9356932
>legal replicas

I’ve seen this used in two ways, the first and proper way is to discuss things that aren’t really replicas, but skate very close, usually it’s perfumes that are reverse engineered, for e.g. a no-brand perfume that’s “inspired by brand X perfume” or “smells like Y perfume”. They usually make no pretense at what they are, they aren’t exactly copies, or trying to fool your that they’re “brand X perfume”, the packaging is generally very different and they only cite the brand they’re “copying” as an “inspiration”, so they’re kind of legal, not-quite-replicas.

In context of lolita, I could see an argument for Secret Shop shoes to be legal replicas, since they never actually pretend to be Angelic Pretty shoes, they just make similar shoes "inspired by" AP shoes.

However, in lolita I just generally see young, clueless noobs use it because they’re so young and new, every dress they experience is the first and only ever original content, donut steel. Then when they encounter another dress that looks similar, instead of saying “this dress looks a lot like that dress”, they become confused and say it’s a replica. The level of inattention they show is astounding, I’ve seen wildly different dresses, bags and shoes labeled as “replicas” of each other because their definition for replicas appears to be “this thing reminds me vaguely of this other thing, therefore it’s a replica”. Thus, they use the term “legal replica” to reconcile why “this dress reminds me of that other dress” somehow isn’t banned, but “this dress that has a print directly copied off an Angelic Pretty dress with Angelic Pretty written all over it, also reminds me of that Angelic Pretty dress”, isn’t banned.

Generally makes discussing near-replicas in lolita a huge pain in the butt.

>>9357346
I own similar ones from a generic western store, those shiny pattern tights were all over the place a year ago or so.

I don't think those are a unique design, it should be safe to go for them.

>>9348404
This.

>>9348870
And this, although I acknowledge a few situations in which production was crap (thinking of a certain, dramatic incident involving some Baby shoes).

The last time I brought this shit up here people thought I was defending replicas. Nup. Just don't understand the hate if you're selective about it. Hate 'em or embrace 'em. After all, it's not that difficult to have zero replicas, design or otherwise. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Back when the mods of EGL group on LiveJournal were contacted by AP regarding banning replicas from that group, they worked out a big guide. There is one error in it (Moitie socks with logo lace in the wrong 'these are ok' section), but otherwise it's still a very good guide to what is a legal replica and what is not. http://egl-comm-sales.livejournal.com/19246303.html

>>9357388
>after all, it's not that difficult to have zero replicas, design or otherwise.

Good for you? I'm not going to shit on someone for having design replicas, print replicas are the main problem.

I try really hard not to buy replicas which for the most part is pretty easy.
My main issue is with tights and shoes. When I was newer to the fashion I accidently bought replica AatP pumps and Jane Marple replica tights.

I think shoes are pretty forgivable as a lot of the designs look so generic. I also feel that some of the very basic tight designs are okay, especially to newer folks in the fashion because it can be hard to track considering how many fakes there are.

Although, lately I have been considering buying a few grimoire replicas that I was unable to get. They don't produce their tights anymore so does that make it okay?

I used to buy AP replicas for casual wear, but I sold all of them except one which is one sale but nobody's interested. I regret buying this shit and even though I bought some real burando off these money I could do that much earlier.

As someone who comes from where replicas are actually manufactured, I have a lot to say about this issue.
As long as there's the demand, there's the market. The replica manufacturers grasped the replica-chan's vanity of wanting the same with less money, and now many of them are even more successful than the indie brand owners. And now they are so blatant that they have begun to make replicas of taobao original brands.
This needs to stop. Or soon we won't have any new designs, because no one is willing to see their own fruit of labor stolen, and the thieves are much better off than the designers. And in a while the replica market itself will die too, because there are no new designs for them to copy.
And this, is why replicas, whether it's a design replica or print replica, whether it is a main piece, accessories, a bag or shoes, are intolerable among Chinese lolitas at all. We don't accept anyone who wears replicas as a Lolita.
However, this hasn't stopped the replica-chans and the replica shops. Although there have been a lot of dramas going on around this issue, but the fact that replica-chans can not be accepted as lolitas is undebatable in China.
Luckily, to stop the replica shops from stealing their designs, the indie brand shop owners have taken actions. They register their own trademark and designs, and send complaints to taobao accordingly and demand the replica shops to take off the replicas, and some of the shops are closed because of that, so it has some effects overall.
To cherish our valuable lolita design treasure, we need to stop buying or supporting replicas in all ways by all means. Stopping buying it yourself is not enough. I hope it becomes a consensus all around the world, or is made a rule, that replicas aren't okay and won't be accepted, since the replica shops also have a lot of oversea orders.
This is my opinion. Maybe it sounds a little too extreme, but I feel the urge to spit it out. I hope this rant is helpful to you.

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>>9362849

It's been really cool watching your comm taking a stand against art thieves and replica shops. Its cool to see how strong the Chinese comm is.

There are several taobao shops I frequent that sell a mix of replica and original items. Is it enough to just not buy the replica items or should I just not support the shop at all?

>>9363005
Thank you very much! I am honored.
Yes, some of the shops do sell a mixture of replicas and original items. Regarding this, people's attitude differ, some choose to avoid the shop completely, and some only buy the original items, but we all tend to avoid the replicas!
For example, MuFish has a lot of replica socks, but it's bags and berets are okay. However, I haven't bought from them in a while, because their quality is not as good as the shops that do originals only indeed.
However, it is still up to you, as long as you don't buy any replicas!
Hope this is helpful to you ^^

>>9363005
>>9363038
I imagine stores are catering to demand so if the demand for replicas drop and the demand for other things goes up they're switch their stock accordingly.

And thanks for information about Chinese lolitas , glad there's a strong movement away from replicas there. Must be frustrating to have that happening on your door-step.

>>9347330
This. Also I'm not a lolita anymore but one of the reasons I lost interest was the focus more on printed items, which I just don't care for. I like solid color items or small, oldschool style prints better.

>>9348404
Are you that girl who used to have that princess portal site?