If like 90% of fund managers who graduated top ivy league schools,

>>987593
>I plan to buy and hold

Put all of your money into ETFs.

Then keep aside <1-2% of your networth for buying meme /biz/ stocks for fun. $1000-2000 should be enough for meme /biz/ stocks just for fun.

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>>987593
You have literally no idea what you are talking about.

>>987593
>Aren't there distributing ETFs as well, so "dividends" doesn't really hold up as an argument?
ALL index funds and ETFs pass-through their dividends to share owners. You're on the right track, OP, but do continue your research.

bogleheads.org

>>987618
How about offering some insight instead of being a condescending prick?

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>>987593
First of all, what do you even mean by "market?" Dow jones? Sp500? Well, warren buffet beats dow, mid-cap beats warrens portfolio, small cap beats all of those. If you had your moneys in usa last 2 years you did 40% better than euro. I mean, wtf is this nobody beats market thing? There isnt a single professor in mit or harvard who believes in efficients market theory anymore lol

>>987593
It's all marketing. The average joe (and also a lot of idiots on this board) think that if you're really smart you're able to predict the market.
Their financial advisor at Merrill Lynch is wearing a nice suit and has a degree in accounting so he must be one of those smart people.
They're gladly paying 3% in fees every year to let this financial genius handle their money.
When confronted with the fact that 90% of hedge funds underperform the market they point to a handful of statistical outliers who got super lucky as evidence that it "can be done".

>>987649
This.

Literally 90% of jobs/companies are ALL about marketing.

Apple is a piece of shit that makes overpriced products that are literally garbage... But it sells, why? Because of marketing.

Countless examples of this. It's just putting on a visage and making it seem like a well groomed, Yale/Harvard Graduate wearing an expensive suit uses a few words that are really complicated and sound sophisticated so I trust him with my money now.

Really though he could know nothing more than a homeless guy who is missing half his teeth and can't speak properly.

>>987639
>There isnt a single professor in mit or harvard who believes in efficients market theory anymore
Are you retarded?

Efficient market theory is accepted fact. It's just that morons like you don't understand the theory in the first place.

>>987649
this is really how I feel now that I have a masters in finance and the first level of the CFA passed.

Had I known I would've done comp sci, physics or engineering.

>>987683
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efficient-market_hypothesis#Criticism_and_behavioral_finance

humans are the market. and humans are irrational.

>>987686
>Had I known I would've done comp sci, physics or engineering.

That's also marketing.

Those majors are literally cukkold-tier. Why settle to make ~$100k/yr while your boss is earning millions off the projects you work on?

Finance at least has no cap on the amount you can make and teaches you tons of useful things. Finance is pretty independent and can get to be incredibly high salaried.

Compsci and engineering is literally getting paid 1/20 of how much they're selling for your hard work for.

>>987691
Kek. Evolution has critics too. Doesn't mean we aren't descended from apes.

Grow the fuck up.

>>987699
why are you telling me to grow up when you have to resort to ad hominems. i refuse to debate you on that level. a high level of discourse on 4chan as always. welp time to abandon thread.

>>987705
1. It's 4chan. Sorry you got sand in your vagina, faggot.
2. People who announce that they're leaving the thread invariably continue monitoring the thread but simply have nothing intelligent to say.

You're welcome for the free education. I just saved you from sounding like an idiot at your next D&D party.

>>987669
>Apple is a piece of shit that makes overpriced products that are literally garbage... But it sells, why? Because of marketing.

As a lifelong PCfag who owns no Apple products and has only used a Macbook when it was provided to me for work, you have no clue what you're talking about. I'm buying one for myself before I start my next internship - there is no windows alternative to it. Keyboard's good, battery life is great, display is great, touchpad is unbeatable, good speakers, and obviously the goat aesthetics + weight.

Apple products are shit is literally meme tier leddit advice.

>>987719
>Keyboard's good, battery life is great, display is great, touchpad is unbeatable, good speakers, and obviously the goat aesthetics + weight.

For like $1000+ of course it's good compared to a piece of shit.

Thinkpads are just as good and can be had for only $200 used.

Besides I was more getting at iPhones being tremendously overpriced. Nexus 5 is far cheaper and better in pretty much every way. It's just not a status symbol.

>>987699
This genius actually believes we're descended from monkeys.

Show me where a monkey gave birth to a human and I will suck your dick.

>>987732
>Show me where a monkey gave birth to a human and I will suck your dick.
Did your parents film your birth?

>>987686
>Had I known I would've done comp sci, physics or engineering.
Why? All I said was that that just because you're a finance major you're not any better at predicting stock prices than the average person.
However, finance is still incrediby fascinating and profitable when it comes to playing "outside the rules". I'm thinking about things like HFT, arbitrage, market manipulation...
That stuff is way more interesting and challenging than reading Verizons quartely earnings and trying to decide whether or not the stock is undervalued.

>>987756
9.6/10

>>987732
this nog actually thinks he descended from his great grandmother.

Show me how she gave birth to you parents and you will suck my own dick

>>987696
comparing the number of finance grads to the number making millions it is extremely small. At least with engineering, comp sci one can make well above average and not be shit on for most of their career. Also finance is only good if you go to a top school. Studying finance from "Shit State U" won't do much.. but that same State U with an engineering degree will land you a job.

>>987780
His great grandmother would have given birth to one of his grandparents, not his parents you dummy.

>>987787
Thats the point you colosal dunce

>>987719
You can get windows equivalent for cheaper in almost every case.
Apple products aren't bad, but they're overpriced as hell and can get away with it because of huge ad campaigns.

>>987789
>sure is retard in here

>>987699
>Kek. Evolution has critics too. Doesn't mean we aren't descended from apes.
His argument wasn't "it has critics, therefore it cannot be true", but rather "humans are irrational, and thus the market cannot be rational" - which is true, by the way.

>>987719
>buying a mac for the hardware
Now this is something I cannot understand. The extremely user-friendly OS (which is easily pirated or replaced with a linux distro) is literally the only advantage a Macintosh computer has over a Windows equivalent.

>>987699

The Theory of Evolution and Evolution are entirely different things m8.

People invest in these funds because they offer less risk. While your SPY index fund may average 10% a year, you are putting yourself to risk at 50% drawdowns and a Sharpe ratio less than 1. People with enough money to invest in these hedge funds do so so they don't lose money. They aren't investing to grow their wealth. They've already made it.

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>>987649
Your numbers are quite bad there. If you look at the gross, most of the hedge funds beat the market by small but significant margin (about 2,5%) but net basis dont the edge get minimal or even negative.

>>987683
>Efficient market theory is accepted fact.

Okay whatever kid. For you, I would advice index fund. Even if you look at the theory itself on theoretical level, it's has some serious self-contradicting arguments.

>>987762
Your fundamental analysis is fundamentally wrong, so you are right about that.

>>987686
>>987762
Finance major won't teach you how to beat the market, really. Been there done that. At a basic level economics is pseudo science just like psycholohy, it's not real science like math. Probably 95% of business uni stutends are wasting their time, unless you are learning some kind of simple trait like accounting. Sure, you will have the stipend but you havent really learnt anything, or all you've learnt could be wrong. Good example is that if you look the newest classes of MIT for example, you will be amazed.

>Aren't there distributing ETFs as well, so "dividends" doesn't really hold up as an argument?


Man what is this shit?

>>987603
Why throw away 1-2% of your net worth?

>>988257
>His argument wasn't "it has critics, therefore it cannot be true"
His argument was actually a link to a wikipedia page, you colossal dick-sucking faggot. And just like your boyfriend, you have no fucking clue either.

>>988263
>The Theory of Evolution and Evolution are entirely different things m8.
2deep4me. Actually, 2irrelevant4thisthread.

>>988278
>People with enough money to invest in these hedge funds do so so they don't lose money. They aren't investing to grow their wealth. They've already made it.
Kek. This faggot thinks hedge funds actually hedge market risk.

1950 called and thinks you're a moron.

>>988325
>I would advice index fund.
>I would advice index fund.
>I would advice index fund.
I have no words.

>>987618
That's why he's asking for help, you flaming autist.

You can beat the market. The market is simply the average of all performance. Index funds can't exist without active traders because traders make the prices move.

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>>988435

>>987762
>HFT

well unless you have a math/theoretical physics PhD you're not getting into that

>>987722
>Thinkpads
Out you go poorkek.
>>>/g/

>>987593
If "the market" were thoroughly predictable you'd make no money at all. Its erratic market movement in a STABLE market that creates the safest conditions for investment. And that is an enormously broad statement...

>>988555
isn't it ironic that the ones that know the most aobut technology don't spend more than necessary on it, yet they are the ones with the highest wages?
you must be really deluded and stupid to think that 99% of the marketing bullshit isn't just that, bullshit

>>987696
>Why settle to make ~$100k/yr while your boss is earning millions off the projects you work on?
being an engineer means you can start your own business, and be knowledgeable and competent at it.

>>987593

People like to gamble anon. People like to believe they have an ability others do not.

>>989965
It's certainly "gambling" for most people, but only because of how they're approaching it.
How anyone can expect to net positive results in an industry they devote a fraction of time to is beyond me.
It's like thinking you can compete in the NFL by playing pickup games on the weekend.

>>989959
>being an engineer means you can start your own business, and be knowledgeable and competent at it

Yeah but you'd be better suited to do that as a Finance/accounting major + another talent/skill like programming for example.

>>988555
What is wrong with thinkpads though?

- superior build quality
- cheap yet efficient
- user serviceable
- drivers work out of box with every major Linux distro

>>990264
>Linux
You also wear a leather trench coat & fingerless gloves & own a katana?

>>990254
>How anyone can expect to net positive results in an industry they devote a fraction of time to is beyond me
Can you show me the evidence that devoting more time to trading improves your results? No anecdotal evidence please; just hard facts. Kthx.

>>990307
Devoting more time to anything improves your results, assuming the activity isn't random in nature.
You didn't really need me to tell you that, right?
Kthx.

>>990318
Hmm, someone doesn't know the meaning of the word "anecdotal" it seems.

Would you like to try again?

Can you show me the evidence that devoting more time to trading improves your results? No anecdotal evidence please; just hard facts. Kthx.

>>990296
>You also wear a leather trench coat & fingerless gloves & own a katana?

What's wrong with Linux?

>>990550
I'd be glad to how you the evidence but I don't compete with a public library which is where you should go to get the facts you want.

Or, you could call Goldman Sachs. But their answer to you will be "click".

>>990792
Interesting comment. So >>990254 makes an unsubstantiated claim that devoting more time to trading improves results, and I ask him to provide support for that somewhat controversial statement. He replies >>990318 but fails to provide any support. I politely ask again.

Then you jump in to support your boyfriend by suggesting that the burden is on me to disprove a statement that hasn't been proven in the first place.

You then refer me to a Wall Street trading firm, a group as to which there is substantial evidence that they underperform the markets.

So can you defend your boyfriend's statement or not? Please show me the evidence that devoting more time to trading improves your results. No memes, no anecdotes, no snide comments. Just support the statement, or admit that its wrong. Its really that simple.

The right tool for the right job IMO

if you think about who index funds are best suited for, it's normies who would mainly hold securities in tax advantaged accounts and have a time horizon of several decades for retirement, that's really the only reasonable timeline anyway

that said after doing all this research over the past year, I'd probably never ever drop money into securities beyond whatever I can fit into a 401k/IRA

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>>990803
I knew a guy who made more money after practicing.
If you seek answers, maybe you could make an effort beyond demanding them from random strangers on an image board.

>>990803
>memes
>anecdotes
>snide comment

Did I get all three?

>>990872
>I knew a guy
Literally the definition of anecdotal.

Are you seriously this incapable of defending the things that you post? Why did you post in the first place.

I seek answers because like everyone on this board I want to do the best with my money. YOU made a claim about how to do better with money. I asked you to prove that claim. It's just that simple kid.

Please show me the evidence that devoting more time to trading improves your results. No memes, no anecdotes, no snide comments. Just support the statement, or admit that its wrong.

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>>990885
>Literally the definition of anecdotal
Yes, that was the point.

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>>990942
So you make a serious claim, and when you're asked to defend it, you turn into a flaming retard and a troll?

Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, anon.

>>990963
Can you help me pick some stocks to make money with?
I already know that you can buy Apple "shares", and it sounds like some other companies offer stock too.
Are you only able to buy it around the holidays, you know, to get people to buy their products?

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>>990885
It's hihly unlikely nobody who beats the market from left and right will be telling what they are doing excactly

>>991107
>It's hihly unlikely nobody who beats the market from left and right
Actually, its highly likely that anyone who beat the market from left and right will tell everyone in the world because he would be paid millions and millions of dollars to do it on behalf of others.

Stop. being. stupid.

>>988260
Trackpad+gestures is unbeatable. I'd happily buy something else than mbp if it truly had a comparable trackpad. Size, tactile feel, etc. Seriously, I spent 2000 on mine and could have had similar specs for about 60%. The trackpad experience is worth the extra 800.

>>991139
do it on behalf of others
>Can you do it on behalf of me?
I have half a bitcoin and some Star Wars action figures to trade. My dog chewed on a couple of them, but they have to be worth something. The stormtrooper one kind of looks like the new black guy.

>>991141
>Trackpad+gestures is unbeatable. I'd happily buy something else than mbp if it truly had a comparable trackpad. Size, tactile feel, etc.

Trackpads and clit-mice on older thinkpads are God-tier. The keyboards are amazing too if you don't get the newer "tactile" keyboards.

>>991156
You know the halfwit kid in school who's never really funny but always takes jokes too far, always talks too loud, and always embarasses themselves, and when confronted about their poor life choices they laugh it off like they don't care cause their "too cool," which is both sad and funny, and everyone is thinking what a waste of a human and feeling sorry for his parents? I got bad news for you, anon....

>>991174
>I got bad news for you, anon....
You won't trade? Ok, they're not mint condition, but still. George Lucas's assistant marked one with a pen.
Hold on, I have to urinate.

>>987593
Make a portfolio out of reliable sustainable fortune dividend paying stocks and allocate capital based on how much you like the companies products/services. Hold it long enough and your likely to beat the street. IF you have decent taste I think there's a good chance that it'll take less than a decade or two to see your portfolio average return beat the street. It's like 3 months of part time work that you can sit on for years and years and you'd need only spend 1 day a year getting catching up with it, worth the time IMO investing can be fun.

>>992799
Wow, you resurrected and old thread just to give shitty advice?

First, dividend stocks are a bad choice for young investors because you have to pay taxes now on the distributions. That eats into your capital, and lowers your gains. Young investors should be focused on growing their portfolio, not income. Income investments, like dividend stocks, are for retirees and retirement accounts.

Second, allocating your capital based on "how much you like the companies products/services" just guarantees that you overload with overpriced meme stocks. To imply that the key to outperforming the market is having "decent taste" is the most retarded thing I've heard in a while. All you're really saying is to pay hunches, follow your gut, and let your instincts guide you ... which is poorfag-speak for guessing.

So, no, kid, its not simply a matter of picking a few stocks that you really, really think are cool in order to beat the markets. Unless, of course, you have some reliable proof that this incredible strategy works. Well?

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Yes, please try to compete with us.

kek

>>992971
Hey, if you don't want Star Wars figures, how about some imitation crab meat?

>>987593
because all that doesn't mean shit

it means you paid someone to let you read their books and hand you a piece of paper saying you know your shit. sure we don't have the millions to play with, but with enough research, effort and luck, even we can be successful.

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>>990555
>What's wrong with Linux?

>>993569
>Being so insecure that you're afraid of people judging you over the operating system you use.
>Better spend 1500$ on a Macbook, 1000$ on an iPhone and drink Starbucks all day so people won't think you're weird (nobody cares)

You're not gonna make it

>>992971
Hey kid, I don't mean to be pushy, but crab meat spoils, you know.
So pull your thumb out your butt.

>>988325
>most of the hedge funds beat the market by small but significant margin
do you have a source for that because that sounds like bullshit

>>988325
are you counting the huge number of hedge funds that go out of business in their first year?

Efficient Markets Hypothesis is a model: it simplification what is actually occurring. In the long run, no one strategy will beat the market, because if it were successful then people would start copying the strategy. However, it can take time for people to catch on. So in the short term you can indeed beat the market if you discover a unknown correlation/effect you can use to predict prices. You can use that effect to beat the market for a while until the market "catches on." When you can't make money anymore you publish your findings and become a renowned finance professor. A professor at my school gave such a seminar about Twitter sentiment analysis and stock prices... At the end someone asked him why he revealed the information, turns out b/c he's already made millions from it and the effect is no longer there. These fund managers are paid big bucks so they can hopefully do similar things as this professor(everything is becoming quant fyi, fundamental analysis is dying out). Of course, most of the time they fail, but some do indeed succeed. Research Renaissance Technologies and their medallion fund.

>>993815
Every time we hear about someone "beating the market" its always "this guy I know" or "my secret portfolio that I won't show you."

Well, I was skeptical at first, but you guys have finally won me over. Let's throw out 20 years of academic research in favor of anecdotes and hearsay. Can't wait to make the market my bitch too!

>>993857
I think your problem is that you expect a little too much.
I've been trading for years with a profitable record, and it's my only job. Even so, I'm almost positive that there's nothing I could show you that would convince you of that fact. Anything posted here could easily be shopped.
Are you just demanding proof because you know you won't get it?

I am not discounting the EMH model, rather I'm explaining how it applies to the real world. When I say "beat the market" i mean that a certain investment over a certain time frame returns more than the average: I also explain the methods used by some investors who have managed to do so in the past (doesn't mean they will continue to do so in the future). Even given this information, I would still advise OP to invest in index funds, as I do b/c I don't have the time to analyze the markets.

>>993878
I don't disagree that there are small inefficiencies in the market, and I generally agree with your over characterization of efficient market theory.

The problem lies in the supposition that anyone can reliably take advantage of the inefficiencies that do exist. There's simply no credible evidence that the time and cost of finding them, the cost of liquidity necessary to exploit them, coupled with the risk of misidentifying them, leads to positive alpha in a statistical majority of cases.

In short, its gambling. Yes, some people win at gambling, and yes some people successfully exploit temporary market inefficiencies. But there's no systematic way to do this reliably or repeatably. As a consequences, trying to exploit these inefficiencies is a failed strategy.