To what extent can IQ act as an upper limit to earnings potential?

> Thinking an IQ score is gonna have a big impact on how much money you make

Back to /b/

>>963028
IQ means close to nothing.

IQ tests are significantly flawed as they currently are and being smart doesn't necessarily give you good skills to make money.

>>963029
but IQ correlates with income.

>>963028
High IQ will make things easier, but you still have to do the same boring shit.

faggot with 136 IQ measured when I was 14 and 135 when I was 18

I read something that said IQ is representative for like 25% of your financial success. A high IQ opens up your upper earning potential. Fortune 500 CEOs and startup founders all generally have 130+ IQs. That said, a lot of smart people don't care about learning, money or prestige. You still have to bust your ass.

115 is definitely fine for STEM. All that matters is that you work hard. The brain is a muscle. Use it.

>>963039
Because STEM kiddies will make $50-100k+ but low IQ people generally will settle with their construction/retail jobs for their entire life.

The skills you need to become rich/upper class (not middle upper class like Engineers and doctors are destined to become) aren't related to your IQ. I know a few people that are quite stupid when it comes to book smarts, problem solving, etc. but managed to create an income of $250k+/year just because of persistence and luck.

>>963028
115 will make you mediocre tier, if not bad in STEM.

I'd say something like 130-145 gives you an advantage.

I'm my school, (top 5 engineering school), some of the majors have an average of 34-35 ACT, which is about top .5%.

Even so, starting salary is only 70-80k depending on major, but most of these people hit 100k pretty quickly.

Tbh though, IQ can be slowly raised. If you are 115, start eating healthier, exercising, and doing mentally nourishing things with your time, I think you could break 125 and maybe even 130ish.

Good luck OP.

>>963055
>>963065
>>963066
>>963067
IQ tests are flawed.

You can actually "practice" for IQ tests and increase your scores significantly versus someone who hasn't be prepared for those types of questions. It's just a bit of a different way of thinking.

You can buy books for IQ test-type questions and practice for a month and do a lot better than you would without it.

>>963073
This guy is right.

I had to get screened for existential depression which involves an IQ test, scored "as a extreme outlier" but I refused to see the results.

They had to revise the IQ test system recently, which means the tool they used to measure was wrong. Which means all the measurements they took was wrong. If the test was at once imperfect, it probably still is.

>>963074
it's is imperfect, but it is the best available metric for what it does. It's the most empirical thing to emerge from social science.

Are child iq tests accurate? I tested 136 when I was about 7 years old.

>>963077
Like I said though, if you can "practice" to improve your IQ score, it's not even empirical then.

The whole theory of IQ was that it's your intelligence that is pretty much "set in stone" when you're a child, so for you to be able to practice for a month and do a lot better than the "average"(average people happen to not prepare themselves for such questions and not practice in advance), it pretty much invalidates the entire IQ theory.

>>963073
>You can actually "practice" for IQ tests and increase your scores significantly
IQ is supposed to measure innate intelligence. If you practice you're just obscuring your real score. You don't actually have a higher IQ, you are just good at taking IQ tests.

>>963093
>IQ is supposed to measure innate intelligence. If you practice you're just obscuring your real score

That is retarded.

So my intelligence is based on how I can solve questions of the type that I've never encountered before?

How does that make someone smarter? That's like testing you on Calculus you've never studied before... Doesn't make you retarded for failing it.

>>963096
>So my intelligence is based on how I can solve questions of the type that I've never encountered before?
well yes, can you think of a better design to isolate learning ability?

>>963096
you're both right in a way. IQ tests and SAT tests are designed to test the flexibility of your reasoning skills

IQ tests and SAT tests obviously require some base level of knowledge already acquired through schooling. If you study really hard for the SAT, you see the same patterns ahead of time and have had more time to reason through things before kids who studied less.

My belief is that intelligence is something that can be developed with the right environment. There is some genetic component, but I think it's basically 80-90% dependent on your upbringing and continued learning.

>>963101
>My belief is that intelligence is something that can be developed with the right environment

This is what I think too. There is obviously genetic potential but I am positive that studying math/logical thinking and reading books and such can improve your IQ.

>>963100
>well yes, can you think of a better design to isolate learning ability?

Maybe I phrased it wrong but I mean that it doesn't really make sense/is a fair measure because someone can study for a month like I said versus someone who didn't. And they both might have the same *GENETIC* potential for intelligence but get quite different scores.


It's just a different way of thinking, kind of like programming. In order to be a good programmer you need to "fall into" the programmer way of thinking, some people might be great at it but they just haven't reached that point where they can really visualize how stuff works.

IQ measures a specific way of thinking and problem processing.

It measures those abilities well, but the problem with IQ measurements is the same problem that plagues all of social science: they try to make the results applicable across a broad spectrum. They take answers and reach outside of what those answers can technically cover. They essentially remove the scientific part of it by going, "Oh, he has a high IQ. He is very smart..." and continue to apply other assumptions onto one measurement. It becomes illogical, fallacy riddled bullshit by the end of it sometimes, and assumptions have to be qualified and understood properly within context.

And social scientists wanna blast their results into every nook and cranny they can saying it's applicable when it's not.

IQ means very little in terms of earnings, if you can influence people and make a sale, your earning potential is almost unlimited...EQ is probably a better measure

>>963039
I believe the only thing that IQ correlates with is your determination in attempting to understand fluid information. If you think IQ seriously has that big of an impact on your career potential, then just look at how much of a moron Ben Carson is with his views on geology and history. Ben Carson reached the upper echelon of his career by successfully completing one of the hardest operations a brain-surgeon can do; he separated conjoined twins. However, recently he has pointed out how he views the pyramids to not be a grave site for pharaohs, but a place to store grain. He also believes that America should adopt a flat-tax rate. So keep this all in perspective here.

Another example is found in my friend's mom, she was earning six figures working at a nuclear power plant with an engineering degree, but she didn't know how to operate a dishwasher correctly. She repeatedly placed dawn dish-washing liquid into the dishwasher and didn't understand why the dishwasher kept creating soap suds all over her floor. It was only after I told her that she understood the difference between dishwasher detergent and dish-washing liquid.

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>>963111
>IQ means very little in terms of earnings
Kek.

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>>963121
>If you think IQ seriously has that big of an impact on your career potential
Kek.

>>963121
carson could just be an idiot savant. but anecdotes aren't admissible.

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>>963033
>IQ means close to nothing.
Kek.

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Also
>Goys, are you even trying?

>>963129
>White IQ differences
>Jewish
>White

what lol

>>963131
>the butthurt
>the rationalizations
>the memes
Dude, you forgot the memes. No wonder you're so poor.

>>963133
What rationalization or meme? You used the goy meme first.

Jews are not white

>>963131
No le happy merchant image as reaction? Oh wow, are you unwell?
>>/pol

>>963077
>It's the most empirical thing to emerge from social science.
No it isn't. You just haven't been bothered to look into actual social science research.

>>963123
Median income in the US is 50k, How can only people with 125 IQs make above that, then?

>>963129
I'm surprised Jews aren't higher. They absolutely dominate high-IQ professions, even compared to asians who dominate whites.

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>>963136
what is more empirical from a field that doesn't even conform to the scientific method for most of its research?

>>963140
There are cultural reasons for a lot of that.

Also, I think there's likely a causal relationship between initial wealth and IQ scores. Being born into a better environment is probably going to develop your brain better than being raised working class or below. And even if we assumed there wasn't one, it's hardly a case of "smart people are richer", since even the chart >>963127 predicts that roughly half of achievement is explained by intelligence, whereas the other half is unknown.

The point being, you can't say "intelligence has an impact on MY earnings", because that's not how macro correlations work. An individual can always beat the norm by making good decisions. Dumber people tend to make poorer decisions, which I would wager is probably the reason for the correlation more than anything else.

>>963135
>No le happy merchant image as reaction? Oh wow, are you unwell?

What's up with Jews not posting anything in a thread and their only post in a thread is "Nice jew meme idiot"?

>>963144
I admire Pinker and like his work, but he's a complete genetic determinist, which is just as over simplistic and naive as someone who argues everything is determined by culture.

And I'd really rather not argue with you over this. I spend enough time on /sci/ as it is. Suffice it to say, even though social sciences deal with a much more complex series of fields (as in, more variables which are IMPOSSIBLE to isolate), the overarching body of data, as in multiple studies over time on a topic, whittles down our understanding toward the truth, whatever it may be.

I think people like you get frustrated because there's no experiment or study you can perform and go "there we go. THIS is what makes people do what they do." But at the end of the day, with each new study we gain a tiny bit more insight. The road is long and arduous, and there are conflicts of interest and there are sampling errors and there are all of the things that go along with multi-variable fields, but we're constantly homing in on what's empirically true.

>>963134
Goys are not a meme. They're non-Jews.

You must be low on the IQ chart.

My IQ was professionally tested to be 152 and I stock shelves for minimum wage after being NEET for 3 years

>>963156
>Goys are not a meme. They're non-Jews.

Exactly so how are Jews white, as it says in the diagram?

And why did some Jews respond saying butthurt, nice rationalization and >>>/pol/ for saying that Jews are not white?

That's the entire reason for the word Goy to even exist...

>>963139
Chart has two Y axes.

>>963159
Why are you so triggered? Jews didn't make you stupid. Blame your shitty parents.

>>963159
Most Jews I know identify as white. If you saw them on the street you wouldn't go "look at that Jew!" like you would with any other race. You'd say "oh, a white guy". One of my roommates is Jewish and is only Jewish because his mother comes from a Jewish family. His dad's Catholic. I don't see why he wouldn't be white.

>>963164
What?

I'm not triggered I just asked why people responded with "nice jew meme" when I simply mentioned something obvious.

You just said that Goyim are non-Jews, and I agreed and said that it is indeed a race rather than just a religion and now you're calling me triggered. I really don't understand this board sometimes, is everyone trolling?

>>963160
Yes, and the left side is wealth, as the key clearly says. Right side is income, which has a maximum of barely above 50k.

I'm a Sr Business Intelligence Engineer. I make just a shave under $100k base, plus bonuses which put me over. I've only taken those stupid online IQ tests and those are flawed as fuck. I've scored as low as 121 and as high as 137.

I know people who are way more intelligent than me who struggle in professional industries.

You need good social skills on top of technical and analytical skills. It's crucial. How can you report on your findings and next steps? How do you document new tools and train users?

A capable STEM worker needs to be able to do this. It's probably more important than your technical skills.

I would probably rank analytical skills first, then social/soft skills, and technical skills least important

>>963167
I get it man, You're angry and maybe you have every right to be angry, If I had to go through life with your brain, I'd probably be mad as hell.

But I'd like to think that even with your brain, I'd be able to string a rational thought together. Blame the people who deserve to be blamed for making you this way: mummy and dada.

>>963172
Very funny, you are a good memer

>>963169
>tfw have good analytical skills
>tfw have good social skills
>tfw started the career search too late and my resume is so empty I don't even get to the interview step

Everyone else in my life "knows somebody" that got them their foot in the door. I don't know what to do. At this point I'm just casting out the widest net possible and applying to every job and internship that's in my area of interest.

>>963174
Its cool man. I understand you need to dismiss my advice as a meme.

Not many people are willing to face the fact that their parents are so bankrupt genetically that they should have never had children. It just strikes too close to the core of those animalistic self-preservation instincts. Because to admit that your parents never should had bred necessarily implies that you, yourself, never should have been born. And not many people can continue to function once that self-realization light bulb goes on. So instead, you externalize and blame others. Classic stuff.

But look, I'm not one of those people who think its funny to push others to suicide. If you need hate in your life to help you get through the soul-crushing abortion of existence that is your life, then you go ahead and grasp that straw anon. Just keep it in /pol/ next time, kay?

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>>963184
Sounds like you're projecting because you realized you were born a hunchback, larged snouted, bad eyesight Jew with acne.

Go on Schlomo

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>>963184
>mfw not even your fellow Jews like Jews

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>>963184
>mfw jews aren't even tolerated by other jews

lmao is there a worse group of people than these subhuman rats?

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>>963184
well f a m?

What do you have to say for yourself you little jewish weasel

>>963123
>>963122

Major problem with that data. Why is there a downturn in the middle of both? What makes that area not follow the trendline?

Explain that and maybe we'll get somewhere in this argument.

>>963216
>What makes that area not follow the trendline?
That's not how trendlines work.
>Why is there a downturn in the middle of both?
Not that it changes the data in any way, but one guess is that it has to do with the higher educational and professional requirements of the white-collar jobs in that range versis the predominantly blue collar jobs below.

>>963223
Not saying it changes the data.

If you're assuming that IQ = more earnings and achievement, why is there that exception in the middle of the IQ curve? That's a major problem in this data, especially since the largest numerical group of higher-than-average IQ people probably sit there. It could be that numerically speaking, that dip in the middle is where 50% of the population sits. If that's the case, what this data prove is that IQ doesn't affect earnings/achievement unless you're an outlier.

IMO, it's a major problem with concluding that these data are meaningful.

>>963225
>If you're assuming that IQ = more earnings and achievement
I'm not assuming anything. I'm pointing out that there's data strongly supporting the argument, contrary to the assertion of several faggots in this thread.

Also, why would you assume the relationship (if any) between IQ and earnings/wealth was linear? Why exactly do you need straight lines? The world doesn't always work that way.

>>963065
This

>>963243
>Also, why would you assume the relationship (if any) between IQ and earnings/wealth was linear?

I'm not assuming that. Those who say IQ = earnings/achievement are assuming that.

>Why exactly do you need straight lines? The world doesn't always work that way.

You are dismissing a major flaw in the data by saying essentially, shit happens.

The explanation I've offered is much more plausible, tbhfam.

If you're arguing

>>963259
>a major flaw in the data

>data doesn't meet my expectations
>consequently data is flawed

>If you're arguing
Huh?

>>963028

Who gives a shit. Stack paper.

>>963259
Dude you're a fucking idiot. One explanation off the top of my fucking head is that the people on the higher side of the dip are blue collar guys with decades of experience at the height of their profession dominating the lower iq blue collar guys, while the next iq decile up has lower income because that is where the majority are now no longer blue collar, but are at lower levels in their respective fields and are dominated by the people in the higher iq deciles. Why are you just ignoring what the other guy is saying anyway?

Does IQ change with your age?

If I scored 148 when I was around eight years old, would it be very different now or in the same ballpark?

Correlation-causation fallacy: the thread.

>>963409
Predictions can be made from the data regardless.
And it does a better job at it than anything else.

To actually respond to the OP, an IQ of 115 may not be enough for STEM. You'll have to study harder than a lot of your colleagues and generally make a stronger effort.

They say the average IQ of Americans is 103 or so, but thats just because blacks and latinos drag the average that low. 110 to 115 is about average for a normal, functioning adult caucasian. Again all the downies and autists (1 in 45 people!) bring the average down.
I would assume that your average STEM student is over 120.

>>963453
Fair enough. But OP asked specifically about his personal future, and IQ doesn't "predict" where he'll be any more than any other number of factors including what he likes, what his family is like, what school he goes to, how much he engages himself, etc.

>>963475
>I would assume that your average STEM student is over 120.
That may be, but "STEM" is nebulous as fuck and there are plenty of areas within it that are completely doable for average people. IT, for instance, probably counts as STEM and can easily be handled by an average human being. Hell, even things like mechanical engineering is probably doable if he can survive calc 2, which I'd imagine would be a bit of a struggle, but a manageable one if he takes advantage of tutors and such.

I have a chemical engineering friend who's easily in the 130 range but struggles because he's lazy as fuck.

>all these retards dismissing IQ
Delusional faggots, all of you.
IQ matters a lot, OP i would really suggest taking some pre requisite classes to test my capacity and then think whether im ok for STEM or not.
In fact, IQ is the single biggest factor which determines a persons income.

>>963039
Thats why all those kids playing GTA4 and shit on Youtube are making more than any of you aspies will ever make with your Kek engineercel/accountantcel degrees.
Not to speak the male/female models making 2000 USD on a single instagram upload while wearing some sunglasses.

You are fucking clueless. Just lol at your life.

>>963572
2/10

>>963599
Socialist egalitarian faggot detected.

Expound your opinion or gtfo

>>963604
Not him, and I don't know why I'm repeating myself for the Nth time ITT, but IQ can ONLY serve as a correlative predictor for groups at large. It cannot and does not serve as an indicator for one's own life other then the very general sense of "smart people learn easier than dumb people".