Can someone explain to me why cryptocoins value aren't totally

>>2834213
because they are

>>2834213
That's what money is, OP.

They are worth more than money.

>>2834232

Difference is, one is recognized by the US government. Try paying your taxes in bitcoin.

>>2834241
hell try paying for anything that isn't drugs or credit cards with cryptos.

>>2834241
>paying taxes

>>2834213
A nocoiner should think of crypto like PayPal with lower fees and no oversight (no refunds but also no account freezes.)

>>2834240

Actually, you can buy things with money, the value of crypto almost in all cases is based upon the idea you will sell it to someone else in the future, not buy goods directly with it.

The only reason it goes up in value is because once people start buying it, the prices rise resulting in an increase buy rate - positive reinforcement.

I think it fits the definition of a pyramid scheme.

>>2834252
Dont you have to pay taxes on bitcoins you spend or make into real money?

>>2834283
Yes.

>>2834251
so your issue is that bitcoin isn't legal tender that businesses are legally required to accept

think of bitcoin like having a foreign currency then.

>>2834213
>Seems its a giant scheme with 0 inherent value.
you mean the USD

They do have 0 inherent value.
But they don't have 0 real value right now.
There is quite a large bitcoin economy. Yes, most of it is drugs. But everyone loves drugs. And normies know the best way to get what you actually want are the various bays, where you need BTC.

>>2834293
My issue is that its value is entirely derived from speculation and criminal entreprises on the internet. It has no vaue, it has nothing.

It's worth what people are willing to pay for it

>>2834300
USD is backed up by the central bank and US government

>>2834240
>mfw leaf gets it right

>>2834213
Some of them, absolutely. Plenty of shitcoins out there, including token companies promising wild applications in only a few months but we need $5 million in ETH now please.

Others do have value though. For example, did you know that there is a company called Abra that uses Bitcoin as a way of facilitating remittances for foreign workers? And they charge between 1.5 to 4%, which is way more competitive than Western Union, Moneygram, or the like. As a reference, banks charge an average of 10.99%.

>>2834291
that seems like a real pain in the ass to track. just today i bought a tiny bit of bitcoin to play around with and trade. Am i going to have to record every transaction?

>>2834320
Im actually a Potato but that was a one in a million chance right?

>>2834213
based on demands, and in some cases, the coins will be brought back, increasing the value of what you currently hold.

there are quite a few places that you can buy stuff with bitcoins and/or a few alt coins

>>2834313
Surely you've seen some legitimate project struggle due to PayPal freezing funds or the interference of a payment processor.

>>2834314

Which is largely based upon the belief that they will sell it for more money later, not actually buy anything with it.

It's why you see people constantly shilling new coins in hopes they can get the positive reinforcement cycle of value going.

>>2834331
Thats what an exchange is for.

>>2834213
cryptocurrency is still currency
it wasn't made to be an investment or to make a lot of money initially, just to be some next level convenience for transactions, especially internationally

as long as that utility exists, it will have value, and that will last until bitcoin is no longer so convenient in comparison to other currencies

>>2834337
The issue is that bitcoin is not intended to be a payment processor. It's intended to be a currency, which it fails horribly at.

>>2834331

some exchanges allow you to download a csv file of all your transaction, or if you want to keep track of loss and gains, use excel or the blockfolio app

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95% of them are scams.
The other 5% will change the world.
Its a new system of trust.
Think of a world where lawyers, accountants, estate agents, banks and middlemen are a thing of the past. We all trade directly with each other. All of this parasitic no productive shill will be automated away.. This is where the value lies.

>>2834364
Its more akin to store of value than a currency.
Its like digital gold that the other currencies will be pegged against.

>>2834364
OP asked for an explanation as to why crypto isn't just a totally contrived ponzi scheme - if crypto works as a payment processor then we can rightfully wonder if it's overvalued, but we've established that it has some value.

>>2834265
it's a more retarded version of paypal though
kind of like the linux of paypal
>this is the year of bitcoin on the desktop boys!

>>2834213
Let's say Pajeet runs a company in some shithole 3rd world country. Pajeet wants to do business with Americans, but Pajeet dollars are unstable and highly inflated. Pajeet would also have to deal with exchange rates and governments.

BTC is a much easier/stable way to transfer/invest than his countries shitty currency, while avoiding his countries aweful government taxes.

Let's say Chinchin wants to send money to a relative overseas without his communist government hassling him about a money transfer, or investigating him.

Chinchin discovers that BTC is a quick anonymous way to send the money.

Does these example make sense?

>>2834213
No, if you don't see it then fuck you.

>>2834213
You're a fucking moron if you have to ask this.

>>2834493
If you send bitcoin then the person on the other end will receive it - you can't say that about PayPal, they freeze shit on a whim.

>>2834622
none of the bitcoin doubters understand this because they are poorfags who have never had paypal accounts frozen.

>>2834645
I can understand being wary of the volatility of btc if you're dedicated to fiat, I think that's why Tether exists?

>>2834316
Backed by central banks. Kek.

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Yes. That's why Hyperlyth will win

>>2834383
>actually thinks this
Apex kek

>>2834316
potato tier comment.

>>2834514
First example is dumb because bitcoin experiences way higher inflation than any countries currency in 2017 except venezuela, so its not stable or a store of value.

Second example just illustrates that btcs primary purpose is for illegal activity (tax avoidance, money laundering, drugs, cp, etc.)

>>2834334
it was starting to spell potato but the fucking leaf had already fucked up the space

>>2834738

>claims promising new coin
>logo is hillary clintons failed campaign emblem

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>>2835300
Explain how btc could ever experience higher inflation than Venezuela from the present to the future, please.

>>2835474
I said every country except venezuela.

Bitcoin this year alone has experienced massive swings of +/- 20% in literally DAYS.

even most shit tier african dictatorships see only like 10% for the whole year.

btc is a terrible store of value, it fluctuates way too much

>>2835488
Sorry, misread.

>>2835474
Btc is more trashy and speculative than a penny stock

Also used for massive amounts of illegal activity

this is how the 21st century will be trading anything of value as we slowly become a globalized society. The thing is that crypto isn't even in its infancy it's more like still gestating. there are a few things we know crypto currency will solve but to know exactly what it will become is too hard to tell right now. But it is the future, at least that's what all the information I've read has lead me to believe. I could be wrong though. I'm also poor and desperate.

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>>2834276
You must be extremely new here.

>>2834213
It's a pyramid scheme

>>2834240
>CanADA
canadian checks out

>>2834316
good goy

>>2834213

They won't ever find use as a currency but instead will be ultra valuable collectors items after the human mind is merged with computers in 500 years. Our descendants will have digital records of all of us and tales of our funposting adventures on the ancient internet.

You're right. It's the greatest scheme in recorded history. You'll be laughing at us when you realize those sweet savings account gains.

>>2835474

Because people buy bitcoin and hold them thinking they will increase in value due to more people buying them.

The value of all cryptocurrencies as it stands is not based upon what you can buy but largely upon the idea that you will be able to sell them to someone else at a later time.

They don't have an inflation problem, they have a massive deflation problem and normally the federal reserve would be printing more money to keep the value stable.

>>2834213
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBC-nXj3Ng4

kinda like pink sheet penny stocks.

but pink sheet trading is funner

>>2834213

Are you retarded? The ability to transact outside of Visa and Mastercard is fucking groundbreaking for small and large businesses since credit card processing fee's scale directly with revenue

Secondly the (largely theoretical) concept of unhackable transactions is also a game changer

Do you know anything about business at all?

>>2837789
Would be nicer to be able to transact USD without the use of some deflated currency vulnerable to market hacking.

>>2834213
The value is entirely speculative, even more so than precious metals like, which actually have practical uses and are limited in supply, unlike crypto currency where the supply is arbitrarily limited and the applications are gimmicky. Many people can't wrap their minds around this simple fact. They refuse to see crypto for what it really is because they put all of their hopes on crypto.

>>2837833
>Implying you understand the concept of hedging
>Implying you even know what credit card fees are for businesses

Gee it's like I'm posting on a board about business where literally everyone is educated at the University of Investopedia

>>2837891
>predictable credit card fees versus highly volatile crypto

Hmm, I wonder which one is better for businesses.

>>2837942

Are you really that stupid or just pretending

(Just kidding I know you are just that stupid)

Look up how overstock.com handles sales in bitcoin, it will blow your little mind

>>2838375
>BLook up how overstock.com handles sales in bitcoin, it will blow your little mind

Purchase price on Overstock is the same, but the customer still has to pay the BTC transaction fees plus the exchange's fees, so the customer actually ends up paying more with BTC.

>>2837884
Are you hodling metal?

>>2835588
It has potential value I say, depending on what it ends up being used for, if anything. Right now there's a lot of speculation about what the eventual value is actually going to be, but no one really fucking knows, hence the volatility you are seeing.

>>2837137
kek

Speculation drives adoption.

i.e.

>own a business
>observe all these idiot buying tulips
>start accepting these useless tulips because they can be sold for real money

Inherent value follows.

>>2834241
Bitcoin is legal tender in Japan, you fucks.

>>2838552
>bitcoin has no use!! you can't buy anything with it!!
>actually you can
>uh, that's because those businesses are just tricking you!!

>>2835300
So you think inflation means the value of money? Lol you're a dunce.

>>2835488
I don't think you understand what inflation is.

>>2838581
>>2838589
btc crashed form 2500 to 1800 last week

>stable store of value

>>2834213

Babby's first economic thought

>>2834313

>it
>has
>no
>value

I feel like we have discussed this 1000's of times on /biz/ what value is, newfags gonna newfag.

>you can only buy illegal drugs with it
>only illegal drugs
>only

Daily reminder that the global drug trade is in the multi-billions. If cryptocurrency optimized ONLY this industry, you are still looking at huge demand for cryptocurrency in perpetuity.

Human desire for substances alone give cryptocurrency real inherent value. And even if you never touch drugs in your life, you may as well profit from those who do.

>>2838490

Wow you are retarded huh, you still don't get it? You still don't see how Overstock can avoid volatility in Bitcoin price? Do you literally want me to spoon-feed you like the 3 year old baby that you are? Do you think that maybe, just maybe, some bright eye'd intern at Overstock.com thought "Hey, this crypto is kind of volatile, if only there were a way we could accept it as payment and then not hold the currency...wouldn't that be cool!"

Is that enough spoon feeding for you, or do you need me to go the next step? Do you think that maybe, just maybe, his boss replied "Wow, what if we just didn't hold the Bitcoin we accepted?? What if we just went to the open market as soon as we got some Bitcoin, and sold it right back for USD?!?!?! Wouldn't that solve our problem?"

I guess though you still can't get it, you still probably are stuck looking at the wall being like "huh?? But isn't Bitcoin really like, volatile in price?? Huhh???"

(Also, google search "FX Hedge" if you want to know how to, you guessed it, hedge, without selling your currency immediately when you get it)

>>2838679

Beautiful post, yet the eternal no coiner will rise from the grave to tear it down.

Just gonna ride this nascent bull market all the way until I believe we have reached critical mass. Even when bitcoin is $10000 you will have the ENC's coming up to say it has no value, despite being valued at $10000.

>>2838600

You still don't seem to grasp the concept of inflation quite well

>>2838713
I wasn't talking about the volatility. I was talking about the exchange/transaction fees. You end up paying more with BTC than with USD because of that.

every day somebody posts this and every year bitcoin gets more valuable
it's nearly a decade old now
continue missing out while making excuses to justify it